Re: Medical Opinions vs Facts

[Guest guest]

I find both opinions, and facts to be of value.

For example - the research articles will probably never, ever mention that

spiro's estrogenic properties can exacerbate menstrual irregularities, or can

cause gynecomastia in women. They will also never mention that the estrogenic

properties may cause weight gain (plenty of anecdotal evidence of that if you

look hard enough), yet in the three weeks I was on it, my weight (which under

normal circumstances only fluctuates by a pound either way) went up five pounds.

So my *opinion* that this drug's side effects outweigh it's benefits *may* be of

value to some newbie who comes here down the line.

However. My HTN doctor's *opinion* that I could have skipped AVS and gone

straight to surgery, even though I'm a bit past 40, was not supported by any of

the " facts " in the research articles. So I was able to choose to ignore his

opinion, and follow the guidance I got via the *facts* presented in research

articles.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There has been some research posted about the failure of

> > > surgery many years

> > > > > > later. If you have one adenoma, you could very well develop

> > > another on the

> > > > > > other adrenal. That's why Dr. Grim recommends DASH, meds first

> > > and surgery

> > > > > > last. I don't want opinions; I want facts supported by

> > > research, or at

> > > > > > least by expert opinion.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Val

> > > > > >

> > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism

> > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of

> > > hesterfenwick

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Maybe it is about how to find the discussions because

> > > searching thtough old

> > > > > > discussions is nigh-on impossible by thread title. But I never

> > > had any

> > > > > > response to my 'pros and cons' question beyond being told DASH

> > > and meds was

> > > > > > the way to go - despite pressing and pressing for the

> > > equivalent analysis on

> > > > > > surgery. And in the year since then I've seen very little

> > > support for

> > > > > > surgery. Now in my case (under 40, clear adenoma, BP

> > > controlled my minimal

> > > > > > meds, PA short term) it was a no-brainer according to all the

> > > other research

> > > > > > I could lay my hands on.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When I got no response on here to surgery questions, I did

> > > trawl through Pub

> > > > > > Med and every other piece of research I could find - but it

> > > would have been

> > > > > > lovely to have been able to speed that up by getting some

> > > facts on here to

> > > > > > begin with. And I'm guessing that's what many others do - they

> > > come on here

> > > > > > as a first port of call but then move on to doing their own

> > > fundamental

> > > > > > research or go with their medical teams advice and never come

> > > back.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's great, fantastic, that so many of you are fervent

> > > supporters of DASH

> > > > > > and meds. Really - I absolutely mean that. But that doesn't

> > > mean there isn't

> > > > > > ever a case for surgery. Now I'll do my best to be equally

> > > fervent in

> > > > > > support of surgery when I think somebody has a case for it -

> > > that's why I'm

> > > > > > still here. Because that's how it's all going to work, imho.

> > > But I'm not a

> > > > > > medic and I won't be up to date with the latest research so

> > > I'll never carry

> > > > > > as much weight as many of you. So hopefully there will be

> > > others around

> > > > > > giving an alternative view-point too. And if that isn't

> > > welcome then there

> > > > > > should be something in the intro about this being a forum for

> > > supporting

> > > > > > Conn's sufferers through diet and meds rather than it being a

> > > general PA

> > > > > > support site.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > H

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yay that! There are a lot of facts in medicine (as in any science) - if a study

followed 100 people having had an adrenalectomy and 60 of them were cured i.e.

off all meds 5 years after the surgery(for example), that's a fact. It's not a

fact that you would necessarily be one of the 60 but it may be that there are

certain other factors those 60 have in common (e.g.longevity of condition,

severity of condition, age) that makes it even more likely you would be in that

60%. Isn't that what research is all about? Then the opinion would draw on those

facts to offer advice and is an opinion worth listening to - as opposed to an

opinion that can't quote figures in support.

H

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There has been some research posted about the failure of

> > > surgery many years

> > > > > > later. If you have one adenoma, you could very well develop

> > > another on the

> > > > > > other adrenal. That's why Dr. Grim recommends DASH, meds first

> > > and surgery

> > > > > > last. I don't want opinions; I want facts supported by

> > > research, or at

> > > > > > least by expert opinion.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Val

> > > > > >

> > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism

> > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of

> > > hesterfenwick

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Maybe it is about how to find the discussions because

> > > searching thtough old

> > > > > > discussions is nigh-on impossible by thread title. But I never

> > > had any

> > > > > > response to my 'pros and cons' question beyond being told DASH

> > > and meds was

> > > > > > the way to go - despite pressing and pressing for the

> > > equivalent analysis on

> > > > > > surgery. And in the year since then I've seen very little

> > > support for

> > > > > > surgery. Now in my case (under 40, clear adenoma, BP

> > > controlled my minimal

> > > > > > meds, PA short term) it was a no-brainer according to all the

> > > other research

> > > > > > I could lay my hands on.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When I got no response on here to surgery questions, I did

> > > trawl through Pub

> > > > > > Med and every other piece of research I could find - but it

> > > would have been

> > > > > > lovely to have been able to speed that up by getting some

> > > facts on here to

> > > > > > begin with. And I'm guessing that's what many others do - they

> > > come on here

> > > > > > as a first port of call but then move on to doing their own

> > > fundamental

> > > > > > research or go with their medical teams advice and never come

> > > back.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's great, fantastic, that so many of you are fervent

> > > supporters of DASH

> > > > > > and meds. Really - I absolutely mean that. But that doesn't

> > > mean there isn't

> > > > > > ever a case for surgery. Now I'll do my best to be equally

> > > fervent in

> > > > > > support of surgery when I think somebody has a case for it -

> > > that's why I'm

> > > > > > still here. Because that's how it's all going to work, imho.

> > > But I'm not a

> > > > > > medic and I won't be up to date with the latest research so

> > > I'll never carry

> > > > > > as much weight as many of you. So hopefully there will be

> > > others around

> > > > > > giving an alternative view-point too. And if that isn't

> > > welcome then there

> > > > > > should be something in the intro about this being a forum for

> > > supporting

> > > > > > Conn's sufferers through diet and meds rather than it being a

> > > general PA

> > > > > > support site.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > H

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Is this what you ment? Looks like they have mentioned it, once, over 10 years

ago! (I didn't look up the big words!

Found in:

http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/r?dbs+hsdb:@term+@rn+52-01-7

Drug Warnings:

Spironolactone is an aldosterone antagonist that acts on the mineralocorticoid

receptor. It is a potassium-sparing diuretic, and hyperkalemia is the most

common and potentially serious complication of therapy. Impaired kidney function

appears to increase this risk, as does supplementation with potassium chloride.

Excessive diuresis can also lead to dehydration and hyponatraemia. A number of

endocrine effects have also been reported, the most common of which is

gynaecomastia, with a dose-related incidence of 7-52%. This side-effect is

reversible and disappears upon discontinuation of therapy. Other endocrine

effects include loss of sexual potency in men and menstrual irregularity,

amenorrhea, breast engorgement and chloasma in women. These effects are probably

due to interaction of spironolactone with the androgen receptor.

[iARC. Monographs on the Evaluation of the Carcinogenic Risk of Chemicals to

Man. Geneva: World Health Organization, International Agency for Research on

Cancer, 1972-PRESENT. (Multivolume work). Available at:

http://monographs.iarc.fr/index.php p. V79 327 (2001)] **PEER REVIEWED**

- 65 yo super ob. male - 12mm X 13mm rt. a.adnoma with previous rt. flank

pain. Treating with Meds. And DASH. . Current BP(last week ave): 125/73

Other Issues/Opportunities: OSA w Bi-Pap settings 13/19, DM2, and PTSD.

Meds: Duloxetine hcl 80 MG, Mirtazapine 7.5 MG, Metoprolol Tartrate 200 MG,

81mg asprin, Metformin 2000MG and Spironolactone 50 MG.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There has been some research posted about the failure of

> > > > surgery many years

> > > > > > > later. If you have one adenoma, you could very well develop

> > > > another on the

> > > > > > > other adrenal. That's why Dr. Grim recommends DASH, meds first

> > > > and surgery

> > > > > > > last. I don't want opinions; I want facts supported by

> > > > research, or at

> > > > > > > least by expert opinion.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Val

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism

> > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of

> > > > hesterfenwick

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Maybe it is about how to find the discussions because

> > > > searching thtough old

> > > > > > > discussions is nigh-on impossible by thread title. But I never

> > > > had any

> > > > > > > response to my 'pros and cons' question beyond being told DASH

> > > > and meds was

> > > > > > > the way to go - despite pressing and pressing for the

> > > > equivalent analysis on

> > > > > > > surgery. And in the year since then I've seen very little

> > > > support for

> > > > > > > surgery. Now in my case (under 40, clear adenoma, BP

> > > > controlled my minimal

> > > > > > > meds, PA short term) it was a no-brainer according to all the

> > > > other research

> > > > > > > I could lay my hands on.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > When I got no response on here to surgery questions, I did

> > > > trawl through Pub

> > > > > > > Med and every other piece of research I could find - but it

> > > > would have been

> > > > > > > lovely to have been able to speed that up by getting some

> > > > facts on here to

> > > > > > > begin with. And I'm guessing that's what many others do - they

> > > > come on here

> > > > > > > as a first port of call but then move on to doing their own

> > > > fundamental

> > > > > > > research or go with their medical teams advice and never come

> > > > back.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It's great, fantastic, that so many of you are fervent

> > > > supporters of DASH

> > > > > > > and meds. Really - I absolutely mean that. But that doesn't

> > > > mean there isn't

> > > > > > > ever a case for surgery. Now I'll do my best to be equally

> > > > fervent in

> > > > > > > support of surgery when I think somebody has a case for it -

> > > > that's why I'm

> > > > > > > still here. Because that's how it's all going to work, imho.

> > > > But I'm not a

> > > > > > > medic and I won't be up to date with the latest research so

> > > > I'll never carry

> > > > > > > as much weight as many of you. So hopefully there will be

> > > > others around

> > > > > > > giving an alternative view-point too. And if that isn't

> > > > welcome then there

> > > > > > > should be something in the intro about this being a forum for

> > > > supporting

> > > > > > > Conn's sufferers through diet and meds rather than it being a

> > > > general PA

> > > > > > > support site.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > H

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Nice sleuthing

Now how to get that printed on the side effects summary that my pharmacy

attaches to my bag of prescriptions when I pick them up? Right now it doesn't

address menstrual irregularities at all, and tells me that gynecomastia only

happens to men. Which is what most doctors seem to believe as well.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > There has been some research posted about the failure of

> > > > > surgery many years

> > > > > > > > later. If you have one adenoma, you could very well develop

> > > > > another on the

> > > > > > > > other adrenal. That's why Dr. Grim recommends DASH, meds first

> > > > > and surgery

> > > > > > > > last. I don't want opinions; I want facts supported by

> > > > > research, or at

> > > > > > > > least by expert opinion.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Val

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism

> > > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of

> > > > > hesterfenwick

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Maybe it is about how to find the discussions because

> > > > > searching thtough old

> > > > > > > > discussions is nigh-on impossible by thread title. But I never

> > > > > had any

> > > > > > > > response to my 'pros and cons' question beyond being told DASH

> > > > > and meds was

> > > > > > > > the way to go - despite pressing and pressing for the

> > > > > equivalent analysis on

> > > > > > > > surgery. And in the year since then I've seen very little

> > > > > support for

> > > > > > > > surgery. Now in my case (under 40, clear adenoma, BP

> > > > > controlled my minimal

> > > > > > > > meds, PA short term) it was a no-brainer according to all the

> > > > > other research

> > > > > > > > I could lay my hands on.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When I got no response on here to surgery questions, I did

> > > > > trawl through Pub

> > > > > > > > Med and every other piece of research I could find - but it

> > > > > would have been

> > > > > > > > lovely to have been able to speed that up by getting some

> > > > > facts on here to

> > > > > > > > begin with. And I'm guessing that's what many others do - they

> > > > > come on here

> > > > > > > > as a first port of call but then move on to doing their own

> > > > > fundamental

> > > > > > > > research or go with their medical teams advice and never come

> > > > > back.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It's great, fantastic, that so many of you are fervent

> > > > > supporters of DASH

> > > > > > > > and meds. Really - I absolutely mean that. But that doesn't

> > > > > mean there isn't

> > > > > > > > ever a case for surgery. Now I'll do my best to be equally

> > > > > fervent in

> > > > > > > > support of surgery when I think somebody has a case for it -

> > > > > that's why I'm

> > > > > > > > still here. Because that's how it's all going to work, imho.

> > > > > But I'm not a

> > > > > > > > medic and I won't be up to date with the latest research so

> > > > > I'll never carry

> > > > > > > > as much weight as many of you. So hopefully there will be

> > > > > others around

> > > > > > > > giving an alternative view-point too. And if that isn't

> > > > > welcome then there

> > > > > > > > should be something in the intro about this being a forum for

> > > > > supporting

> > > > > > > > Conn's sufferers through diet and meds rather than it being a

> > > > > general PA

> > > > > > > > support site.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > H

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Not many side effects listed on any prescriptions. If they listed them you might

not take the meds.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > There has been some research posted about the failure of

> > > > > > surgery many years

> > > > > > > > > later. If you have one adenoma, you could very well develop

> > > > > > another on the

> > > > > > > > > other adrenal. That's why Dr. Grim recommends DASH, meds first

> > > > > > and surgery

> > > > > > > > > last. I don't want opinions; I want facts supported by

> > > > > > research, or at

> > > > > > > > > least by expert opinion.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Val

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism

> > > > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of

> > > > > > hesterfenwick

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Maybe it is about how to find the discussions because

> > > > > > searching thtough old

> > > > > > > > > discussions is nigh-on impossible by thread title. But I never

> > > > > > had any

> > > > > > > > > response to my 'pros and cons' question beyond being told DASH

> > > > > > and meds was

> > > > > > > > > the way to go - despite pressing and pressing for the

> > > > > > equivalent analysis on

> > > > > > > > > surgery. And in the year since then I've seen very little

> > > > > > support for

> > > > > > > > > surgery. Now in my case (under 40, clear adenoma, BP

> > > > > > controlled my minimal

> > > > > > > > > meds, PA short term) it was a no-brainer according to all the

> > > > > > other research

> > > > > > > > > I could lay my hands on.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > When I got no response on here to surgery questions, I did

> > > > > > trawl through Pub

> > > > > > > > > Med and every other piece of research I could find - but it

> > > > > > would have been

> > > > > > > > > lovely to have been able to speed that up by getting some

> > > > > > facts on here to

> > > > > > > > > begin with. And I'm guessing that's what many others do - they

> > > > > > come on here

> > > > > > > > > as a first port of call but then move on to doing their own

> > > > > > fundamental

> > > > > > > > > research or go with their medical teams advice and never come

> > > > > > back.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It's great, fantastic, that so many of you are fervent

> > > > > > supporters of DASH

> > > > > > > > > and meds. Really - I absolutely mean that. But that doesn't

> > > > > > mean there isn't

> > > > > > > > > ever a case for surgery. Now I'll do my best to be equally

> > > > > > fervent in

> > > > > > > > > support of surgery when I think somebody has a case for it -

> > > > > > that's why I'm

> > > > > > > > > still here. Because that's how it's all going to work, imho.

> > > > > > But I'm not a

> > > > > > > > > medic and I won't be up to date with the latest research so

> > > > > > I'll never carry

> > > > > > > > > as much weight as many of you. So hopefully there will be

> > > > > > others around

> > > > > > > > > giving an alternative view-point too. And if that isn't

> > > > > > welcome then there

> > > > > > > > > should be something in the intro about this being a forum for

> > > > > > supporting

> > > > > > > > > Conn's sufferers through diet and meds rather than it being a

> > > > > > general PA

> > > > > > > > > support site.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > H

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Actually my pharmacy (Walgreen's) provides a fact sheet with each prescription

that pretty much summarizes the info one would find on drugs.com and the like,

scary side effects and all.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > There has been some research posted about the failure of

> > > > > > > surgery many years

> > > > > > > > > > later. If you have one adenoma, you could very well develop

> > > > > > > another on the

> > > > > > > > > > other adrenal. That's why Dr. Grim recommends DASH, meds

first

> > > > > > > and surgery

> > > > > > > > > > last. I don't want opinions; I want facts supported by

> > > > > > > research, or at

> > > > > > > > > > least by expert opinion.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Val

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism

> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of

> > > > > > > hesterfenwick

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Maybe it is about how to find the discussions because

> > > > > > > searching thtough old

> > > > > > > > > > discussions is nigh-on impossible by thread title. But I

never

> > > > > > > had any

> > > > > > > > > > response to my 'pros and cons' question beyond being told

DASH

> > > > > > > and meds was

> > > > > > > > > > the way to go - despite pressing and pressing for the

> > > > > > > equivalent analysis on

> > > > > > > > > > surgery. And in the year since then I've seen very little

> > > > > > > support for

> > > > > > > > > > surgery. Now in my case (under 40, clear adenoma, BP

> > > > > > > controlled my minimal

> > > > > > > > > > meds, PA short term) it was a no-brainer according to all

the

> > > > > > > other research

> > > > > > > > > > I could lay my hands on.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > When I got no response on here to surgery questions, I did

> > > > > > > trawl through Pub

> > > > > > > > > > Med and every other piece of research I could find - but it

> > > > > > > would have been

> > > > > > > > > > lovely to have been able to speed that up by getting some

> > > > > > > facts on here to

> > > > > > > > > > begin with. And I'm guessing that's what many others do -

they

> > > > > > > come on here

> > > > > > > > > > as a first port of call but then move on to doing their own

> > > > > > > fundamental

> > > > > > > > > > research or go with their medical teams advice and never

come

> > > > > > > back.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It's great, fantastic, that so many of you are fervent

> > > > > > > supporters of DASH

> > > > > > > > > > and meds. Really - I absolutely mean that. But that doesn't

> > > > > > > mean there isn't

> > > > > > > > > > ever a case for surgery. Now I'll do my best to be equally

> > > > > > > fervent in

> > > > > > > > > > support of surgery when I think somebody has a case for it -

> > > > > > > that's why I'm

> > > > > > > > > > still here. Because that's how it's all going to work, imho.

> > > > > > > But I'm not a

> > > > > > > > > > medic and I won't be up to date with the latest research so

> > > > > > > I'll never carry

> > > > > > > > > > as much weight as many of you. So hopefully there will be

> > > > > > > others around

> > > > > > > > > > giving an alternative view-point too. And if that isn't

> > > > > > > welcome then there

> > > > > > > > > > should be something in the intro about this being a forum

for

> > > > > > > supporting

> > > > > > > > > > Conn's sufferers through diet and meds rather than it being

a

> > > > > > > general PA

> > > > > > > > > > support site.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > H

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sometimes you're good, sometimes you're lucky and it's always Good to be Lucky!

JC

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > There has been some research posted about the failure of

> > > > > > surgery many years

> > > > > > > > > later. If you have one adenoma, you could very well develop

> > > > > > another on the

> > > > > > > > > other adrenal. That's why Dr. Grim recommends DASH, meds first

> > > > > > and surgery

> > > > > > > > > last. I don't want opinions; I want facts supported by

> > > > > > research, or at

> > > > > > > > > least by expert opinion.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Val

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism

> > > > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of

> > > > > > hesterfenwick

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Maybe it is about how to find the discussions because

> > > > > > searching thtough old

> > > > > > > > > discussions is nigh-on impossible by thread title. But I never

> > > > > > had any

> > > > > > > > > response to my 'pros and cons' question beyond being told DASH

> > > > > > and meds was

> > > > > > > > > the way to go - despite pressing and pressing for the

> > > > > > equivalent analysis on

> > > > > > > > > surgery. And in the year since then I've seen very little

> > > > > > support for

> > > > > > > > > surgery. Now in my case (under 40, clear adenoma, BP

> > > > > > controlled my minimal

> > > > > > > > > meds, PA short term) it was a no-brainer according to all the

> > > > > > other research

> > > > > > > > > I could lay my hands on.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > When I got no response on here to surgery questions, I did

> > > > > > trawl through Pub

> > > > > > > > > Med and every other piece of research I could find - but it

> > > > > > would have been

> > > > > > > > > lovely to have been able to speed that up by getting some

> > > > > > facts on here to

> > > > > > > > > begin with. And I'm guessing that's what many others do - they

> > > > > > come on here

> > > > > > > > > as a first port of call but then move on to doing their own

> > > > > > fundamental

> > > > > > > > > research or go with their medical teams advice and never come

> > > > > > back.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It's great, fantastic, that so many of you are fervent

> > > > > > supporters of DASH

> > > > > > > > > and meds. Really - I absolutely mean that. But that doesn't

> > > > > > mean there isn't

> > > > > > > > > ever a case for surgery. Now I'll do my best to be equally

> > > > > > fervent in

> > > > > > > > > support of surgery when I think somebody has a case for it -

> > > > > > that's why I'm

> > > > > > > > > still here. Because that's how it's all going to work, imho.

> > > > > > But I'm not a

> > > > > > > > > medic and I won't be up to date with the latest research so

> > > > > > I'll never carry

> > > > > > > > > as much weight as many of you. So hopefully there will be

> > > > > > others around

> > > > > > > > > giving an alternative view-point too. And if that isn't

> > > > > > welcome then there

> > > > > > > > > should be something in the intro about this being a forum for

> > > > > > supporting

> > > > > > > > > Conn's sufferers through diet and meds rather than it being a

> > > > > > general PA

> > > > > > > > > support site.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > H

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I always (well almost always) get a 2 or 3 page sheet that lists most of them.

I haven't looked at the one for Spiro but trust ms can " read with

comprehension " ! She was specifically referenceing SX that effected the female

gender which is what I found! DNA to me unless these boobs get any bigger and my

belly gets smaller so I can't see my keyboard!

- 65 yo super ob. male - 12mm X 13mm rt. a.adnoma with previous rt. flank

pain. Treating with Meds. And DASH. . Current BP(last week ave): 125/73

Other Issues/Opportunities: OSA w Bi-Pap settings 13/19, DM2, and PTSD.

Meds: Duloxetine hcl 80 MG, Mirtazapine 7.5 MG, Metoprolol Tartrate 200 MG,

81mg asprin, Metformin 2000MG and Spironolactone 50 MG.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > There has been some research posted about the failure of

> > > > > > > surgery many years

> > > > > > > > > > later. If you have one adenoma, you could very well develop

> > > > > > > another on the

> > > > > > > > > > other adrenal. That's why Dr. Grim recommends DASH, meds

first

> > > > > > > and surgery

> > > > > > > > > > last. I don't want opinions; I want facts supported by

> > > > > > > research, or at

> > > > > > > > > > least by expert opinion.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Val

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism

> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of

> > > > > > > hesterfenwick

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Maybe it is about how to find the discussions because

> > > > > > > searching thtough old

> > > > > > > > > > discussions is nigh-on impossible by thread title. But I

never

> > > > > > > had any

> > > > > > > > > > response to my 'pros and cons' question beyond being told

DASH

> > > > > > > and meds was

> > > > > > > > > > the way to go - despite pressing and pressing for the

> > > > > > > equivalent analysis on

> > > > > > > > > > surgery. And in the year since then I've seen very little

> > > > > > > support for

> > > > > > > > > > surgery. Now in my case (under 40, clear adenoma, BP

> > > > > > > controlled my minimal

> > > > > > > > > > meds, PA short term) it was a no-brainer according to all

the

> > > > > > > other research

> > > > > > > > > > I could lay my hands on.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > When I got no response on here to surgery questions, I did

> > > > > > > trawl through Pub

> > > > > > > > > > Med and every other piece of research I could find - but it

> > > > > > > would have been

> > > > > > > > > > lovely to have been able to speed that up by getting some

> > > > > > > facts on here to

> > > > > > > > > > begin with. And I'm guessing that's what many others do -

they

> > > > > > > come on here

> > > > > > > > > > as a first port of call but then move on to doing their own

> > > > > > > fundamental

> > > > > > > > > > research or go with their medical teams advice and never

come

> > > > > > > back.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It's great, fantastic, that so many of you are fervent

> > > > > > > supporters of DASH

> > > > > > > > > > and meds. Really - I absolutely mean that. But that doesn't

> > > > > > > mean there isn't

> > > > > > > > > > ever a case for surgery. Now I'll do my best to be equally

> > > > > > > fervent in

> > > > > > > > > > support of surgery when I think somebody has a case for it -

> > > > > > > that's why I'm

> > > > > > > > > > still here. Because that's how it's all going to work, imho.

> > > > > > > But I'm not a

> > > > > > > > > > medic and I won't be up to date with the latest research so

> > > > > > > I'll never carry

> > > > > > > > > > as much weight as many of you. So hopefully there will be

> > > > > > > others around

> > > > > > > > > > giving an alternative view-point too. And if that isn't

> > > > > > > welcome then there

> > > > > > > > > > should be something in the intro about this being a forum

for

> > > > > > > supporting

> > > > > > > > > > Conn's sufferers through diet and meds rather than it being

a

> > > > > > > general PA

> > > > > > > > > > support site.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > H

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

information from this site http://www.pdr.net/Default.aspx

The Physicians' Desk Reference® (PDR®)is the most trusted and commonly used drug

information reference, available on PDR.net® and mobilePDR®

Aldactone

( spironolactone ) - G.D. Searle

Boxed Warning

Tumorigenic in chronic toxicity animal studies; avoid unnecessary use.

THERAPEUTIC CLASS

Aldosterone blocker

INDICATIONS

Management of primary hyperaldosteronism (diagnosis, short-term preoperative and

long-term maintenance treatment), edematous conditions (for patients with

congestive heart failure [CHF], hepatic cirrhosis with edema/ascites, nephrotic

syndrome, pathological causes of edema in pregnancy), essential HTN (in

combination with other drugs). Treatment and prophylaxis of hypokalemia. In

addition to standard therapy in severe heart failure (HF) (New York Heart

Association [NYHA] Class III-IV).

ADULT DOSAGE

Adults: Primary Hyperaldosteronism: (Diagnostic) Long Test: 400mg/day for 3-4

weeks. Short Test: 400mg/day for 4 days. Preoperative: 100-400mg/day. Unsuitable

for Surgery: Maint: Lowest effective dose. Edema: Initial: 100mg/day given qd or

in divided doses for & #8805;5 days. Range: 25-200mg/day. May add a second

diuretic which acts more proximally in the renal tubule if no adequate diuretic

response after 5 days. HTN: Initial: 50-100mg/day given qd or in divided doses

for & #8805;2 weeks. Titrate: Adjust according to response. Diuretic-Induced

Hypokalemia: 25-100mg/day. Severe HF (Serum K+ & #8804;5.0mEq/L, SrCr

& #8804;2.5mg/dL): Initial: 25mg qd. Titrate: May increase to 50mg qd if

tolerated or reduce to 25mg qod if not tolerated.

HOW SUPPLIED

Tab: 25mg, 50mg*, 100mg* *scored

CONTRAINDICATIONS

Anuria, acute renal insufficiency, significantly impaired renal excretory

function, hyperkalemia.

WARNINGS/PRECAUTIONS

Monitor for fluid/electrolyte imbalance (eg, hypomagnesemia, hyponatremia,

hypochloremic alkalosis, hyperkalemia). Caution with hepatic impairment; may

precipitate hepatic coma. May cause transient BUN elevation, especially with

preexisting renal impairment. Hyperchloremic metabolic acidosis reported with

decompensated hepatic cirrhosis. Mild acidosis and gynecomastia may occur.

Obtain ECG if hyperkalemia is suspected; d/c if present. May cause/aggravate

dilutional hyponatremia.

ADVERSE REACTIONS

Gastric bleeding, ulceration, gynecomastia, agranulocytosis, fever, urticaria,

confusion, ataxia, renal dysfunction, irregular menses, postmenopausal bleeding,

N/V, diarrhea, cramping.

DRUG INTERACTIONS

Avoid with K+-sparing diuretics, K+ supplements (either medication or K+ rich

diet), and lithium. Extreme caution with NSAIDs (eg, indomethacin) and

angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors; severe hyperkalemia may occur.

Alcohol, barbiturates, or narcotics may potentiate orthostatic hypotension.

Corticosteroids and adrenocorticotropic hormone may intensify electrolyte

depletion. Reduced vascular response to norepinephrine, a pressor amine; caution

with regional/general anesthesia. May increase response to nondepolarizing

skeletal muscle relaxants (eg, tubocurarine). Increased levels of digoxin and

subsequent digitalis toxicity reported. Dilutional hyponatremia may occur with

other diuretics.

Back to top

PREGNANCY

Category C, not for use in nursing.

MECHANISM OF ACTION

Aldosterone antagonist; competitively binds to receptors at

aldosterone-dependent Na+-K+ exchange site in distal convoluted renal tubule,

causing increased Na+ and water excretion, and K+ retention.

PHARMACOKINETICS

Absorption: Cmax=80ng/mL, 181ng/mL (canrenone); Tmax=2.6 hrs, 4.3 hrs

(canrenone). Distribution: Plasma protein binding (>90%); found in breast milk

(canrenone). Metabolism: Rapid and extensive; canrenone (active metabolite).

Elimination: Urine (major), bile (minor); T1/2=1.4 hrs, 16.5 hrs (canrenone).

ASSESSMENT

Assess for renal/hepatic function, hyperkalemia, anuria, pregnancy/nursing

status, and for possible drug interactions.

MONITORING

Monitor serum K+, electrolytes, and renal function periodically. Monitor for

signs/symptoms of fluid/electrolyte imbalance, dilutional hyponatremia,

hyperkalemia, acidosis, gynecomastia, renal/hepatic dysfunction. Monitor for K+

and creatinine 1 week after initiation/increase dose, monthly for 1st 3 months,

then quarterly for a year, and then q6 months with severe HF.

PATIENT COUNSELING

Instruct to avoid K+ supplements and foods containing high levels of K+,

including salt substitutes.

ADMINISTRATION/STORAGE

Administration: Oral route. Storage: <25°C (77°F).

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > There has been some research posted about the failure of

> > > > > > > > surgery many years

> > > > > > > > > > > later. If you have one adenoma, you could very well

develop

> > > > > > > > another on the

> > > > > > > > > > > other adrenal. That's why Dr. Grim recommends DASH, meds

first

> > > > > > > > and surgery

> > > > > > > > > > > last. I don't want opinions; I want facts supported by

> > > > > > > > research, or at

> > > > > > > > > > > least by expert opinion.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Val

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism

> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of

> > > > > > > > hesterfenwick

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it is about how to find the discussions because

> > > > > > > > searching thtough old

> > > > > > > > > > > discussions is nigh-on impossible by thread title. But I

never

> > > > > > > > had any

> > > > > > > > > > > response to my 'pros and cons' question beyond being told

DASH

> > > > > > > > and meds was

> > > > > > > > > > > the way to go - despite pressing and pressing for the

> > > > > > > > equivalent analysis on

> > > > > > > > > > > surgery. And in the year since then I've seen very little

> > > > > > > > support for

> > > > > > > > > > > surgery. Now in my case (under 40, clear adenoma, BP

> > > > > > > > controlled my minimal

> > > > > > > > > > > meds, PA short term) it was a no-brainer according to all

the

> > > > > > > > other research

> > > > > > > > > > > I could lay my hands on.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > When I got no response on here to surgery questions, I did

> > > > > > > > trawl through Pub

> > > > > > > > > > > Med and every other piece of research I could find - but

it

> > > > > > > > would have been

> > > > > > > > > > > lovely to have been able to speed that up by getting some

> > > > > > > > facts on here to

> > > > > > > > > > > begin with. And I'm guessing that's what many others do -

they

> > > > > > > > come on here

> > > > > > > > > > > as a first port of call but then move on to doing their

own

> > > > > > > > fundamental

> > > > > > > > > > > research or go with their medical teams advice and never

come

> > > > > > > > back.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > It's great, fantastic, that so many of you are fervent

> > > > > > > > supporters of DASH

> > > > > > > > > > > and meds. Really - I absolutely mean that. But that

doesn't

> > > > > > > > mean there isn't

> > > > > > > > > > > ever a case for surgery. Now I'll do my best to be equally

> > > > > > > > fervent in

> > > > > > > > > > > support of surgery when I think somebody has a case for it

-

> > > > > > > > that's why I'm

> > > > > > > > > > > still here. Because that's how it's all going to work,

imho.

> > > > > > > > But I'm not a

> > > > > > > > > > > medic and I won't be up to date with the latest research

so

> > > > > > > > I'll never carry

> > > > > > > > > > > as much weight as many of you. So hopefully there will be

> > > > > > > > others around

> > > > > > > > > > > giving an alternative view-point too. And if that isn't

> > > > > > > > welcome then there

> > > > > > > > > > > should be something in the intro about this being a forum

for

> > > > > > > > supporting

> > > > > > > > > > > Conn's sufferers through diet and meds rather than it

being a

> > > > > > > > general PA

> > > > > > > > > > > support site.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > H

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Note no mention of polymenorrhea or depression, side effects both I and others

have experienced.

And " mild " gynecomastia? Try " debilitating. " I love how those who have never

dealt with it dismiss it as trivial.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > There has been some research posted about the failure of

> > > > > > > > > surgery many years

> > > > > > > > > > > > later. If you have one adenoma, you could very well

develop

> > > > > > > > > another on the

> > > > > > > > > > > > other adrenal. That's why Dr. Grim recommends DASH, meds

first

> > > > > > > > > and surgery

> > > > > > > > > > > > last. I don't want opinions; I want facts supported by

> > > > > > > > > research, or at

> > > > > > > > > > > > least by expert opinion.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Val

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism

> > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of

> > > > > > > > > hesterfenwick

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it is about how to find the discussions because

> > > > > > > > > searching thtough old

> > > > > > > > > > > > discussions is nigh-on impossible by thread title. But I

never

> > > > > > > > > had any

> > > > > > > > > > > > response to my 'pros and cons' question beyond being

told DASH

> > > > > > > > > and meds was

> > > > > > > > > > > > the way to go - despite pressing and pressing for the

> > > > > > > > > equivalent analysis on

> > > > > > > > > > > > surgery. And in the year since then I've seen very

little

> > > > > > > > > support for

> > > > > > > > > > > > surgery. Now in my case (under 40, clear adenoma, BP

> > > > > > > > > controlled my minimal

> > > > > > > > > > > > meds, PA short term) it was a no-brainer according to

all the

> > > > > > > > > other research

> > > > > > > > > > > > I could lay my hands on.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > When I got no response on here to surgery questions, I

did

> > > > > > > > > trawl through Pub

> > > > > > > > > > > > Med and every other piece of research I could find - but

it

> > > > > > > > > would have been

> > > > > > > > > > > > lovely to have been able to speed that up by getting

some

> > > > > > > > > facts on here to

> > > > > > > > > > > > begin with. And I'm guessing that's what many others do

- they

> > > > > > > > > come on here

> > > > > > > > > > > > as a first port of call but then move on to doing their

own

> > > > > > > > > fundamental

> > > > > > > > > > > > research or go with their medical teams advice and never

come

> > > > > > > > > back.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > It's great, fantastic, that so many of you are fervent

> > > > > > > > > supporters of DASH

> > > > > > > > > > > > and meds. Really - I absolutely mean that. But that

doesn't

> > > > > > > > > mean there isn't

> > > > > > > > > > > > ever a case for surgery. Now I'll do my best to be

equally

> > > > > > > > > fervent in

> > > > > > > > > > > > support of surgery when I think somebody has a case for

it -

> > > > > > > > > that's why I'm

> > > > > > > > > > > > still here. Because that's how it's all going to work,

imho.

> > > > > > > > > But I'm not a

> > > > > > > > > > > > medic and I won't be up to date with the latest research

so

> > > > > > > > > I'll never carry

> > > > > > > > > > > > as much weight as many of you. So hopefully there will

be

> > > > > > > > > others around

> > > > > > > > > > > > giving an alternative view-point too. And if that isn't

> > > > > > > > > welcome then there

> > > > > > > > > > > > should be something in the intro about this being a

forum for

> > > > > > > > > supporting

> > > > > > > > > > > > Conn's sufferers through diet and meds rather than it

being a

> > > > > > > > > general PA

> > > > > > > > > > > > support site.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > H

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

with that same logic we then must look at the number of people who die during a

surgery so that we account for that too and have no bias that way either. We can

look at how many who die in any surgery. Then any who die during a specific

adrenalectomy, then account for comorbidities the patient has, like the time of

uncontrolled HTN and is it a factor in a surgery or higher risk of death and we

can go on forever since we want no bias in the decision right?

>Also have to question the wisdom of lifetime drug therapy with a " tumorigenic "

substance in those of us who have tumors.

>

>

>> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > There has been some research posted about the failure

of

>> > > > > > > > > > surgery many years

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > later. If you have one adenoma, you could very well

develop

>> > > > > > > > > > another on the

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > other adrenal. That's why Dr. Grim recommends DASH,

meds first

>> > > > > > > > > > and surgery

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > last. I don't want opinions; I want facts supported

by

>> > > > > > > > > > research, or at

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > least by expert opinion.

>> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Val

>> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf

Of

>> > > > > > > > > > hesterfenwick

>> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it is about how to find the discussions because

>> > > > > > > > > > searching thtough old

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > discussions is nigh-on impossible by thread title.

But I never

>> > > > > > > > > > had any

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > response to my 'pros and cons' question beyond being

told DASH

>> > > > > > > > > > and meds was

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > the way to go - despite pressing and pressing for the

>> > > > > > > > > > equivalent analysis on

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > surgery. And in the year since then I've seen very

little

>> > > > > > > > > > support for

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > surgery. Now in my case (under 40, clear adenoma, BP

>> > > > > > > > > > controlled my minimal

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > meds, PA short term) it was a no-brainer according to

all the

>> > > > > > > > > > other research

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > I could lay my hands on.

>> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > When I got no response on here to surgery questions,

I did

>> > > > > > > > > > trawl through Pub

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Med and every other piece of research I could find -

but it

>> > > > > > > > > > would have been

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > lovely to have been able to speed that up by getting

some

>> > > > > > > > > > facts on here to

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > begin with. And I'm guessing that's what many others

do - they

>> > > > > > > > > > come on here

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > as a first port of call but then move on to doing

their own

>> > > > > > > > > > fundamental

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > research or go with their medical teams advice and

never come

>> > > > > > > > > > back.

>> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > It's great, fantastic, that so many of you are

fervent

>> > > > > > > > > > supporters of DASH

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > and meds. Really - I absolutely mean that. But that

doesn't

>> > > > > > > > > > mean there isn't

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > ever a case for surgery. Now I'll do my best to be

equally

>> > > > > > > > > > fervent in

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > support of surgery when I think somebody has a case

for it -

>> > > > > > > > > > that's why I'm

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > still here. Because that's how it's all going to

work, imho.

>> > > > > > > > > > But I'm not a

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > medic and I won't be up to date with the latest

research so

>> > > > > > > > > > I'll never carry

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > as much weight as many of you. So hopefully there

will be

>> > > > > > > > > > others around

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > giving an alternative view-point too. And if that

isn't

>> > > > > > > > > > welcome then there

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > should be something in the intro about this being a

forum for

>> > > > > > > > > > supporting

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Conn's sufferers through diet and meds rather than it

being a

>> > > > > > > > > > general PA

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > support site.

>> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > H

>> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > >

>> > > > > >

>> > > > >

>> > > >

>> > >

>> >

>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

More people die in routine surgeries than get tumors from spiro if the numbers look right as a percent and not as sheer numbers. Not promoting either one, just stating facts.

Subject: Re: Medical Opinions vs FactsTo: hyperaldosteronism Date: Wednesday, October 12, 2011, 8:04 AM

information from this site http://www.pdr.net/Default.aspx The Physicians' Desk Reference® (PDR®)is the most trusted and commonly used drug information reference, available on PDR.net® and mobilePDR® Aldactone( spironolactone ) - G.D. SearleBoxed Warning Tumorigenic in chronic toxicity animal studies; avoid unnecessary use.THERAPEUTIC CLASS Aldosterone blockerINDICATIONS Management of primary hyperaldosteronism (diagnosis, short-term preoperative and long-term maintenance treatment), edematous conditions (for patients with congestive heart failure [CHF], hepatic cirrhosis with edema/ascites, nephrotic syndrome, pathological causes of edema in pregnancy), essential HTN (in combination with other drugs). Treatment and prophylaxis of hypokalemia. In addition to standard therapy in severe heart failure (HF) (New York Heart

Association [NYHA] Class III-IV).ADULT DOSAGE Adults: Primary Hyperaldosteronism: (Diagnostic) Long Test: 400mg/day for 3-4 weeks. Short Test: 400mg/day for 4 days. Preoperative: 100-400mg/day. Unsuitable for Surgery: Maint: Lowest effective dose. Edema: Initial: 100mg/day given qd or in divided doses for & #8805;5 days. Range: 25-200mg/day. May add a second diuretic which acts more proximally in the renal tubule if no adequate diuretic response after 5 days. HTN: Initial: 50-100mg/day given qd or in divided doses for & #8805;2 weeks. Titrate: Adjust according to response. Diuretic-Induced Hypokalemia: 25-100mg/day. Severe HF (Serum K+ & #8804;5.0mEq/L, SrCr & #8804;2.5mg/dL): Initial: 25mg qd. Titrate: May increase to 50mg qd if tolerated or reduce to 25mg qod if not tolerated.HOW SUPPLIED Tab: 25mg, 50mg*, 100mg* *scoredCONTRAINDICATIONS Anuria, acute renal insufficiency, significantly impaired renal

excretory function, hyperkalemia.WARNINGS/PRECAUTIONS Monitor for fluid/electrolyte imbalance (eg, hypomagnesemia, hyponatremia, hypochloremic alkalosis, hyperkalemia). Caution with hepatic impairment; may precipitate hepatic coma. May cause transient BUN elevation, especially with preexisting renal impairment. Hyperchloremic metabolic acidosis reported with decompensated hepatic cirrhosis. Mild acidosis and gynecomastia may occur. Obtain ECG if hyperkalemia is suspected; d/c if present. May cause/aggravate dilutional hyponatremia.ADVERSE REACTIONS Gastric bleeding, ulceration, gynecomastia, agranulocytosis, fever, urticaria, confusion, ataxia, renal dysfunction, irregular menses, postmenopausal bleeding, N/V, diarrhea, cramping.DRUG INTERACTIONS Avoid with K+-sparing diuretics, K+ supplements (either medication or K+ rich diet), and lithium. Extreme caution with NSAIDs (eg, indomethacin) and angiotensin converting

enzyme inhibitors; severe hyperkalemia may occur. Alcohol, barbiturates, or narcotics may potentiate orthostatic hypotension. Corticosteroids and adrenocorticotropic hormone may intensify electrolyte depletion. Reduced vascular response to norepinephrine, a pressor amine; caution with regional/general anesthesia. May increase response to nondepolarizing skeletal muscle relaxants (eg, tubocurarine). Increased levels of digoxin and subsequent digitalis toxicity reported. Dilutional hyponatremia may occur with other diuretics.Back to topPREGNANCY Category C, not for use in nursing.MECHANISM OF ACTION Aldosterone antagonist; competitively binds to receptors at aldosterone-dependent Na+-K+ exchange site in distal convoluted renal tubule, causing increased Na+ and water excretion, and K+ retention.PHARMACOKINETICS Absorption: Cmax=80ng/mL, 181ng/mL (canrenone); Tmax=2.6 hrs, 4.3 hrs (canrenone). Distribution: Plasma

protein binding (>90%); found in breast milk (canrenone). Metabolism: Rapid and extensive; canrenone (active metabolite). Elimination: Urine (major), bile (minor); T1/2=1.4 hrs, 16.5 hrs (canrenone).ASSESSMENT Assess for renal/hepatic function, hyperkalemia, anuria, pregnancy/nursing status, and for possible drug interactions.MONITORING Monitor serum K+, electrolytes, and renal function periodically. Monitor for signs/symptoms of fluid/electrolyte imbalance, dilutional hyponatremia, hyperkalemia, acidosis, gynecomastia, renal/hepatic dysfunction. Monitor for K+ and creatinine 1 week after initiation/increase dose, monthly for 1st 3 months, then quarterly for a year, and then q6 months with severe HF.PATIENT COUNSELING Instruct to avoid K+ supplements and foods containing high levels of K+, including salt substitutes.ADMINISTRATION/STORAGE Administration: Oral route. Storage: <25°C

(77°F).> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > There has been some research posted about the failure of > > > > > > > > surgery many years> > > > > > > > > > > later. If you have one adenoma, you could very well develop > > > > > > > > another on the> > > > > > > > > > > other adrenal. That's why Dr. Grim recommends DASH, meds first > > > > > > > > and surgery> > > > > > > > > > > last. I don't want

opinions; I want facts supported by > > > > > > > > research, or at> > > > > > > > > > > least by expert opinion.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Val> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of > > > > > > >

> hesterfenwick> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it is about how to find the discussions because > > > > > > > > searching thtough old> > > > > > > > > > > discussions is nigh-on impossible by thread title. But I never > > > > > > > > had any> > > > > > > > > > > response to my 'pros and cons' question beyond being told DASH > > > > > > > > and meds was> > > > > > > > > > > the way to go - despite pressing and pressing for the > > > > > > > > equivalent analysis on> > > > > > > > > > > surgery. And in the year since then I've seen very little >

> > > > > > > support for> > > > > > > > > > > surgery. Now in my case (under 40, clear adenoma, BP > > > > > > > > controlled my minimal> > > > > > > > > > > meds, PA short term) it was a no-brainer according to all the > > > > > > > > other research> > > > > > > > > > > I could lay my hands on.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > When I got no response on here to surgery questions, I did > > > > > > > > trawl through Pub> > > > > > > > > > > Med and every other piece of research I could find - but it > > > > > > > > would have been> > > > > > > > > > > lovely

to have been able to speed that up by getting some > > > > > > > > facts on here to> > > > > > > > > > > begin with. And I'm guessing that's what many others do - they > > > > > > > > come on here> > > > > > > > > > > as a first port of call but then move on to doing their own > > > > > > > > fundamental> > > > > > > > > > > research or go with their medical teams advice and never come > > > > > > > > back.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > It's great, fantastic, that so many of you are fervent > > > > > > > > supporters of DASH> > > > > > > > > > > and meds. Really - I absolutely mean

that. But that doesn't > > > > > > > > mean there isn't> > > > > > > > > > > ever a case for surgery. Now I'll do my best to be equally > > > > > > > > fervent in> > > > > > > > > > > support of surgery when I think somebody has a case for it - > > > > > > > > that's why I'm> > > > > > > > > > > still here. Because that's how it's all going to work, imho. > > > > > > > > But I'm not a> > > > > > > > > > > medic and I won't be up to date with the latest research so > > > > > > > > I'll never carry> > > > > > > > > > > as much weight as many of you. So hopefully there will be > > > > > > > > others

around> > > > > > > > > > > giving an alternative view-point too. And if that isn't > > > > > > > > welcome then there> > > > > > > > > > > should be something in the intro about this being a forum for > > > > > > > > supporting> > > > > > > > > > > Conn's sufferers through diet and meds rather than it being a > > > > > > > > general PA> > > > > > > > > > > support site.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > H> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >

>> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

The issue I see here is that if spiro is tumorigenic, and one with a tumor is

taking it, then this could explain why some people who have taken spiro long

term have posted here that their symptoms have come back or that they need more

spiro.

In other words, the spiro accelerates tumor growth, the tumor gets larger, this

triggers more aldo and necessitates more spiro.

Vicious cycle, maybe? I know that Dr Grim always blames it on " out-salting

spiro " but perhaps it's more complex than that.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > There has been some research posted about the failure of

> > > > > > > > > surgery many years

> > > > > > > > > > > > later. If you have one adenoma, you could very well

develop

> > > > > > > > > another on the

> > > > > > > > > > > > other adrenal. That's why Dr. Grim recommends DASH, meds

first

> > > > > > > > > and surgery

> > > > > > > > > > > > last. I don't want opinions; I want facts supported by

> > > > > > > > > research, or at

> > > > > > > > > > > > least by expert opinion.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Val

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism

> > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of

> > > > > > > > > hesterfenwick

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it is about how to find the discussions because

> > > > > > > > > searching thtough old

> > > > > > > > > > > > discussions is nigh-on impossible by thread title. But I

never

> > > > > > > > > had any

> > > > > > > > > > > > response to my 'pros and cons' question beyond being

told DASH

> > > > > > > > > and meds was

> > > > > > > > > > > > the way to go - despite pressing and pressing for the

> > > > > > > > > equivalent analysis on

> > > > > > > > > > > > surgery. And in the year since then I've seen very

little

> > > > > > > > > support for

> > > > > > > > > > > > surgery. Now in my case (under 40, clear adenoma, BP

> > > > > > > > > controlled my minimal

> > > > > > > > > > > > meds, PA short term) it was a no-brainer according to

all the

> > > > > > > > > other research

> > > > > > > > > > > > I could lay my hands on.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > When I got no response on here to surgery questions, I

did

> > > > > > > > > trawl through Pub

> > > > > > > > > > > > Med and every other piece of research I could find - but

it

> > > > > > > > > would have been

> > > > > > > > > > > > lovely to have been able to speed that up by getting

some

> > > > > > > > > facts on here to

> > > > > > > > > > > > begin with. And I'm guessing that's what many others do

- they

> > > > > > > > > come on here

> > > > > > > > > > > > as a first port of call but then move on to doing their

own

> > > > > > > > > fundamental

> > > > > > > > > > > > research or go with their medical teams advice and never

come

> > > > > > > > > back.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > It's great, fantastic, that so many of you are fervent

> > > > > > > > > supporters of DASH

> > > > > > > > > > > > and meds. Really - I absolutely mean that. But that

doesn't

> > > > > > > > > mean there isn't

> > > > > > > > > > > > ever a case for surgery. Now I'll do my best to be

equally

> > > > > > > > > fervent in

> > > > > > > > > > > > support of surgery when I think somebody has a case for

it -

> > > > > > > > > that's why I'm

> > > > > > > > > > > > still here. Because that's how it's all going to work,

imho.

> > > > > > > > > But I'm not a

> > > > > > > > > > > > medic and I won't be up to date with the latest research

so

> > > > > > > > > I'll never carry

> > > > > > > > > > > > as much weight as many of you. So hopefully there will

be

> > > > > > > > > others around

> > > > > > > > > > > > giving an alternative view-point too. And if that isn't

> > > > > > > > > welcome then there

> > > > > > > > > > > > should be something in the intro about this being a

forum for

> > > > > > > > > supporting

> > > > > > > > > > > > Conn's sufferers through diet and meds rather than it

being a

> > > > > > > > > general PA

> > > > > > > > > > > > support site.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > H

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I know of no evidence that Spiro causes tumors. Please send reference. Tiped sad Send form miiPhone ;-)May your pressure be low!CE Grim MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertension

More people die in routine surgeries than get tumors from spiro if the numbers look right as a percent and not as sheer numbers. Not promoting either one, just stating facts.

Subject: Re: Medical Opinions vs FactsTo: hyperaldosteronism Date: Wednesday, October 12, 2011, 8:04 AM

information from this site http://www.pdr.net/Default.aspx The Physicians' Desk Reference® (PDR®)is the most trusted and commonly used drug information reference, available on PDR.net® and mobilePDR® Aldactone( spironolactone ) - G.D. SearleBoxed Warning Tumorigenic in chronic toxicity animal studies; avoid unnecessary use.THERAPEUTIC CLASS Aldosterone blockerINDICATIONS Management of primary hyperaldosteronism (diagnosis, short-term preoperative and long-term maintenance treatment), edematous conditions (for patients with congestive heart failure [CHF], hepatic cirrhosis with edema/ascites, nephrotic syndrome, pathological causes of edema in pregnancy), essential HTN (in combination with other drugs). Treatment and prophylaxis of hypokalemia. In addition to standard therapy in severe heart failure (HF) (New York Heart

Association [NYHA] Class III-IV).ADULT DOSAGE Adults: Primary Hyperaldosteronism: (Diagnostic) Long Test: 400mg/day for 3-4 weeks. Short Test: 400mg/day for 4 days. Preoperative: 100-400mg/day. Unsuitable for Surgery: Maint: Lowest effective dose. Edema: Initial: 100mg/day given qd or in divided doses for & #8805;5 days. Range: 25-200mg/day. May add a second diuretic which acts more proximally in the renal tubule if no adequate diuretic response after 5 days. HTN: Initial: 50-100mg/day given qd or in divided doses for & #8805;2 weeks. Titrate: Adjust according to response. Diuretic-Induced Hypokalemia: 25-100mg/day. Severe HF (Serum K+ & #8804;5.0mEq/L, SrCr & #8804;2.5mg/dL): Initial: 25mg qd. Titrate: May increase to 50mg qd if tolerated or reduce to 25mg qod if not tolerated.HOW SUPPLIED Tab: 25mg, 50mg*, 100mg* *scoredCONTRAINDICATIONS Anuria, acute renal insufficiency, significantly impaired renal

excretory function, hyperkalemia.WARNINGS/PRECAUTIONS Monitor for fluid/electrolyte imbalance (eg, hypomagnesemia, hyponatremia, hypochloremic alkalosis, hyperkalemia). Caution with hepatic impairment; may precipitate hepatic coma. May cause transient BUN elevation, especially with preexisting renal impairment. Hyperchloremic metabolic acidosis reported with decompensated hepatic cirrhosis. Mild acidosis and gynecomastia may occur. Obtain ECG if hyperkalemia is suspected; d/c if present. May cause/aggravate dilutional hyponatremia.ADVERSE REACTIONS Gastric bleeding, ulceration, gynecomastia, agranulocytosis, fever, urticaria, confusion, ataxia, renal dysfunction, irregular menses, postmenopausal bleeding, N/V, diarrhea, cramping.DRUG INTERACTIONS Avoid with K+-sparing diuretics, K+ supplements (either medication or K+ rich diet), and lithium. Extreme caution with NSAIDs (eg, indomethacin) and angiotensin converting

enzyme inhibitors; severe hyperkalemia may occur. Alcohol, barbiturates, or narcotics may potentiate orthostatic hypotension. Corticosteroids and adrenocorticotropic hormone may intensify electrolyte depletion. Reduced vascular response to norepinephrine, a pressor amine; caution with regional/general anesthesia. May increase response to nondepolarizing skeletal muscle relaxants (eg, tubocurarine). Increased levels of digoxin and subsequent digitalis toxicity reported. Dilutional hyponatremia may occur with other diuretics.Back to topPREGNANCY Category C, not for use in nursing.MECHANISM OF ACTION Aldosterone antagonist; competitively binds to receptors at aldosterone-dependent Na+-K+ exchange site in distal convoluted renal tubule, causing increased Na+ and water excretion, and K+ retention.PHARMACOKINETICS Absorption: Cmax=80ng/mL, 181ng/mL (canrenone); Tmax=2.6 hrs, 4.3 hrs (canrenone). Distribution: Plasma

protein binding (>90%); found in breast milk (canrenone). Metabolism: Rapid and extensive; canrenone (active metabolite). Elimination: Urine (major), bile (minor); T1/2=1.4 hrs, 16.5 hrs (canrenone).ASSESSMENT Assess for renal/hepatic function, hyperkalemia, anuria, pregnancy/nursing status, and for possible drug interactions.MONITORING Monitor serum K+, electrolytes, and renal function periodically. Monitor for signs/symptoms of fluid/electrolyte imbalance, dilutional hyponatremia, hyperkalemia, acidosis, gynecomastia, renal/hepatic dysfunction. Monitor for K+ and creatinine 1 week after initiation/increase dose, monthly for 1st 3 months, then quarterly for a year, and then q6 months with severe HF.PATIENT COUNSELING Instruct to avoid K+ supplements and foods containing high levels of K+, including salt substitutes.ADMINISTRATION/STORAGE Administration: Oral route. Storage: <25°C

(77°F).> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I'm going to take exception to your "whole lot of opinions" > > > > > > > > comment. Many times I reference professional articles so the only > > > > > > > > opinion I give is that I think this article may have value - you > > > > > > > > judge the quality if you choose to review it! I try to be careful > > > > > > > > not to practice med. w/o a license!> > >

> > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

Where is the tumor association data? How about the risks of XrAy from AVS CT ETC. PROB BIGGER. Tiped sad Send form miiPhone ;-)May your pressure be low!CE Grim MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertension

The issue I see here is that if spiro is tumorigenic, and one with a tumor is taking it, then this could explain why some people who have taken spiro long term have posted here that their symptoms have come back or that they need more spiro.

In other words, the spiro accelerates tumor growth, the tumor gets larger, this triggers more aldo and necessitates more spiro.

Vicious cycle, maybe? I know that Dr Grim always blames it on "out-salting spiro" but perhaps it's more complex than that.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I'm going to take exception to your "whole lot of opinions"

> > > > > > > > > comment. Many times I reference professional articles so the only

> > > > > > > > > opinion I give is th

[Guest guest]

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/hyperaldosteronism/message/36655

PDR, as posted by Bill Francis.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I'm going to take exception to your " whole lot of

opinions "

> > > > > > > > > > comment. Many times I reference professional articles so the

only

> > > > > > > > > > opinion I give is that I think this article may have value -

you

> > > > > > > > > > judge the quality if you choose to review it! I try to be

careful

> > > > > > > > > > not to practice med. w/o a license!

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

>

[Guest guest]

Does it mention anything about causing tumors in lab animls?

Level of gynecomasteia probably depends on whether you are on the outside

looking in or inside looking out! (May depend on the gender of the writer also!

Ouch!)

I made it 1/4 of the way thru " Your Medical Mind " last night and it is certainly

thought provoking!

- 65 yo super ob. male - 12mm X 13mm rt. a.adnoma with previous rt. flank

pain. Treating with Meds. And DASH. . Current BP(last week ave): 125/73

Other Issues/Opportunities: OSA w Bi-Pap settings 13/19, DM2, and PTSD.

Meds: Duloxetine hcl 80 MG, Mirtazapine 7.5 MG, Metoprolol Tartrate 200 MG,

81mg asprin, Metformin 2000MG and Spironolactone 50 MG.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > There has been some research posted about the

failure of

> > > > > > > > > > > surgery many years

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > later. If you have one adenoma, you could very well

develop

> > > > > > > > > > > another on the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > other adrenal. That's why Dr. Grim recommends DASH,

meds first

> > > > > > > > > > > and surgery

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > last. I don't want opinions; I want facts supported

by

> > > > > > > > > > > research, or at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > least by expert opinion.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Val

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On

Behalf Of

> > > > > > > > > > > hesterfenwick

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it is about how to find the discussions

because

> > > > > > > > > > > searching thtough old

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussions is nigh-on impossible by thread title.

But I never

> > > > > > > > > > > had any

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > response to my 'pros and cons' question beyond being

told DASH

> > > > > > > > > > > and meds was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the way to go - despite pressing and pressing for

the

> > > > > > > > > > > equivalent analysis on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > surgery. And in the year since then I've seen very

little

> > > > > > > > > > > support for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > surgery. Now in my case (under 40, clear adenoma, BP

> > > > > > > > > > > controlled my minimal

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > meds, PA short term) it was a no-brainer according

to all the

> > > > > > > > > > > other research

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I could lay my hands on.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I got no response on here to surgery questions,

I did

> > > > > > > > > > > trawl through Pub

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Med and every other piece of research I could find -

but it

> > > > > > > > > > > would have been

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > lovely to have been able to speed that up by getting

some

> > > > > > > > > > > facts on here to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > begin with. And I'm guessing that's what many others

do - they

> > > > > > > > > > > come on here

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > as a first port of call but then move on to doing

their own

> > > > > > > > > > > fundamental

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > research or go with their medical teams advice and

never come

> > > > > > > > > > > back.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's great, fantastic, that so many of you are

fervent

> > > > > > > > > > > supporters of DASH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and meds. Really - I absolutely mean that. But that

doesn't

> > > > > > > > > > > mean there isn't

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ever a case for surgery. Now I'll do my best to be

equally

> > > > > > > > > > > fervent in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > support of surgery when I think somebody has a case

for it -

> > > > > > > > > > > that's why I'm

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > still here. Because that's how it's all going to

work, imho.

> > > > > > > > > > > But I'm not a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > medic and I won't be up to date with the latest

research so

> > > > > > > > > > > I'll never carry

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > as much weight as many of you. So hopefully there

will be

> > > > > > > > > > > others around

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving an alternative view-point too. And if that

isn't

> > > > > > > > > > > welcome then there

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > should be something in the intro about this being a

forum for

> > > > > > > > > > > supporting

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Conn's sufferers through diet and meds rather than

it being a

> > > > > > > > > > > general PA

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > support site.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > H

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

There are so many different types if tumors. Adrenal tumor is not the same as a brain tumor when we biopsy them ...typically. So a tumor is not just a tumor is a tumor....can't say that one is leading to the other.

Subject: Re: Medical Opinions vs FactsTo: hyperaldosteronism Date: Wednesday, October 12, 2011, 12:27 PM

The issue I see here is that if spiro is tumorigenic, and one with a tumor is taking it, then this could explain why some people who have taken spiro long term have posted here that their symptoms have come back or that they need more spiro.In other words, the spiro accelerates tumor growth, the tumor gets larger, this triggers more aldo and necessitates more spiro.Vicious cycle, maybe? I know that Dr Grim always blames it on "out-salting spiro" but perhaps it's more complex than that.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > There has been

some research posted about the failure of > > > > > > > > > surgery many years> > > > > > > > > > > > later. If you have one adenoma, you could very well develop > > > > > > > > > another on the> > > > > > > > > > > > other adrenal. That's why Dr. Grim recommends DASH, meds first > > > > > > > > > and surgery> > > > > > > > > > > > last. I don't want opinions; I want facts supported by > > > > > > > > > research, or at> > > > > > > > > > > > least by expert opinion.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Val> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >

> > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of > > > > > > > > > hesterfenwick> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it is about how to find the discussions because > > > > > > > > > searching thtough old> > > > >

> > > > > > > discussions is nigh-on impossible by thread title. But I never > > > > > > > > > had any> > > > > > > > > > > > response to my 'pros and cons' question beyond being told DASH > > > > > > > > > and meds was> > > > > > > > > > > > the way to go - despite pressing and pressing for the > > > > > > > > > equivalent analysis on> > > > > > > > > > > > surgery. And in the year since then I've seen very little > > > > > > > > > support for> > > > > > > > > > > > surgery. Now in my case (under 40, clear adenoma, BP > > > > > > > > > controlled my minimal> > > > > > > > > > > >

meds, PA short term) it was a no-brainer according to all the > > > > > > > > > other research> > > > > > > > > > > > I could lay my hands on.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > When I got no response on here to surgery questions, I did > > > > > > > > > trawl through Pub> > > > > > > > > > > > Med and every other piece of research I could find - but it > > > > > > > > > would have been> > > > > > > > > > > > lovely to have been able to speed that up by getting some > > > > > > > > > facts on here to> > > > > > > > > > > > begin with. And I'm guessing that's what many others do - they

> > > > > > > > > come on here> > > > > > > > > > > > as a first port of call but then move on to doing their own > > > > > > > > > fundamental> > > > > > > > > > > > research or go with their medical teams advice and never come > > > > > > > > > back.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > It's great, fantastic, that so many of you are fervent > > > > > > > > > supporters of DASH> > > > > > > > > > > > and meds. Really - I absolutely mean that. But that doesn't > > > > > > > > > mean there isn't> > > > > > > > > > > > ever a case for surgery. Now I'll do my

best to be equally > > > > > > > > > fervent in> > > > > > > > > > > > support of surgery when I think somebody has a case for it - > > > > > > > > > that's why I'm> > > > > > > > > > > > still here. Because that's how it's all going to work, imho. > > > > > > > > > But I'm not a> > > > > > > > > > > > medic and I won't be up to date with the latest research so > > > > > > > > > I'll never carry> > > > > > > > > > > > as much weight as many of you. So hopefully there will be > > > > > > > > > others around> > > > > > > > > > > > giving an alternative view-point too. And if that isn't > > >

> > > > > > welcome then there> > > > > > > > > > > > should be something in the intro about this being a forum for > > > > > > > > > supporting> > > > > > > > > > > > Conn's sufferers through diet and meds rather than it being a > > > > > > > > > general PA> > > > > > > > > > > > support site.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > H> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >

> >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, it said in " rats. " Generally I see that and think " I'm not a rat, so not

going to worry about it! " but just a few threads downstream Dr Grim recommended

I look at some " animal studies. "

You know, I suspect that gynecomastia might be worse in women, and particularly

women not yet menopausal, because of the hormonal fluctuations that are already

going on.

I've gotta see if my library has that book

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There has been some research posted about the

failure of

> > > > > > > > > > > > surgery many years

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > later. If you have one adenoma, you could very

well develop

> > > > > > > > > > > > another on the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > other adrenal. That's why Dr. Grim recommends

DASH, meds first

> > > > > > > > > > > > and surgery

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > last. I don't want opinions; I want facts

supported by

> > > > > > > > > > > > research, or at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > least by expert opinion.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Val

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On

Behalf Of

> > > > > > > > > > > > hesterfenwick

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it is about how to find the discussions

because

> > > > > > > > > > > > searching thtough old

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussions is nigh-on impossible by thread title.

But I never

> > > > > > > > > > > > had any

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > response to my 'pros and cons' question beyond

being told DASH

> > > > > > > > > > > > and meds was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the way to go - despite pressing and pressing for

the

> > > > > > > > > > > > equivalent analysis on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > surgery. And in the year since then I've seen very

little

> > > > > > > > > > > > support for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > surgery. Now in my case (under 40, clear adenoma,

BP

> > > > > > > > > > > > controlled my minimal

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > meds, PA short term) it was a no-brainer according

to all the

> > > > > > > > > > > > other research

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I could lay my hands on.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I got no response on here to surgery

questions, I did

> > > > > > > > > > > > trawl through Pub

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Med and every other piece of research I could find

- but it

> > > > > > > > > > > > would have been

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lovely to have been able to speed that up by

getting some

> > > > > > > > > > > > facts on here to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > begin with. And I'm guessing that's what many

others do - they

> > > > > > > > > > > > come on here

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as a first port of call but then move on to doing

their own

> > > > > > > > > > > > fundamental

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > research or go with their medical teams advice and

never come

> > > > > > > > > > > > back.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's great, fantastic, that so many of you are

fervent

> > > > > > > > > > > > supporters of DASH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and meds. Really - I absolutely mean that. But

that doesn't

> > > > > > > > > > > > mean there isn't

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ever a case for surgery. Now I'll do my best to be

equally

> > > > > > > > > > > > fervent in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > support of surgery when I think somebody has a

case for it -

> > > > > > > > > > > > that's why I'm

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > still here. Because that's how it's all going to

work, imho.

> > > > > > > > > > > > But I'm not a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > medic and I won't be up to date with the latest

research so

> > > > > > > > > > > > I'll never carry

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as much weight as many of you. So hopefully there

will be

> > > > > > > > > > > > others around

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving an alternative view-point too. And if that

isn't

> > > > > > > > > > > > welcome then there

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should be something in the intro about this being

a forum for

> > > > > > > > > > > > supporting

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Conn's sufferers through diet and meds rather than

it being a

> > > > > > > > > > > > general PA

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > support site.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > H

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My side effect (not all are negative), besides a bit of gyneco at first, has been to feel better - no anxiety or depression. So there's another side....if we want no bias of course......the very mention of one's own perception is a bias. So when we say we want no bias, but then say how it was, we actually promote our bias.

Subject: Re: Medical Opinions vs FactsTo: hyperaldosteronism Date: Wednesday, October 12, 2011, 9:29 AM

Note no mention of polymenorrhea or depression, side effects both I and others have experienced.And "mild" gynecomastia? Try "debilitating." I love how those who have never dealt with it dismiss it as trivial.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > There has been

some research posted about the failure of > > > > > > > > > surgery many years> > > > > > > > > > > > later. If you have one adenoma, you could very well develop > > > > > > > > > another on the> > > > > > > > > > > > other adrenal. That's why Dr. Grim recommends DASH, meds first > > > > > > > > > and surgery> > > > > > > > > > > > last. I don't want opinions; I want facts supported by > > > > > > > > > research, or at> > > > > > > > > > > > least by expert opinion.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Val> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >

> > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of > > > > > > > > > hesterfenwick> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it is about how to find the discussions because > > > > > > > > > searching thtough old> > > > >

> > > > > > > discussions is nigh-on impossible by thread title. But I never > > > > > > > > > had any> > > > > > > > > > > > response to my 'pros and cons' question beyond being told DASH > > > > > > > > > and meds was> > > > > > > > > > > > the way to go - despite pressing and pressing for the > > > > > > > > > equivalent analysis on> > > > > > > > > > > > surgery. And in the year since then I've seen very little > > > > > > > > > support for> > > > > > > > > > > > surgery. Now in my case (under 40, clear adenoma, BP > > > > > > > > > controlled my minimal> > > > > > > > > > > >

meds, PA short term) it was a no-brainer according to all the > > > > > > > > > other research> > > > > > > > > > > > I could lay my hands on.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > When I got no response on here to surgery questions, I did > > > > > > > > > trawl through Pub> > > > > > > > > > > > Med and every other piece of research I could find - but it > > > > > > > > > would have been> > > > > > > > > > > > lovely to have been able to speed that up by getting some > > > > > > > > > facts on here to> > > > > > > > > > > > begin with. And I'm guessing that's what many others do - they

> > > > > > > > > come on here> > > > > > > > > > > > as a first port of call but then move on to doing their own > > > > > > > > > fundamental> > > > > > > > > > > > research or go with their medical teams advice and never come > > > > > > > > > back.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > It's great, fantastic, that so many of you are fervent > > > > > > > > > supporters of DASH> > > > > > > > > > > > and meds. Really - I absolutely mean that. But that doesn't > > > > > > > > > mean there isn't> > > > > > > > > > > > ever a case for surgery. Now I'll do my

best to be equally > > > > > > > > > fervent in> > > > > > > > > > > > support of surgery when I think somebody has a case for it - > > > > > > > > > that's why I'm> > > > > > > > > > > > still here. Because that's how it's all going to work, imho. > > > > > > > > > But I'm not a> > > > > > > > > > > > medic and I won't be up to date with the latest research so > > > > > > > > > I'll never carry> > > > > > > > > > > > as much weight as many of you. So hopefully there will be > > > > > > > > > others around> > > > > > > > > > > > giving an alternative view-point too. And if that isn't > > >

> > > > > > welcome then there> > > > > > > > > > > > should be something in the intro about this being a forum for > > > > > > > > > supporting> > > > > > > > > > > > Conn's sufferers through diet and meds rather than it being a > > > > > > > > > general PA> > > > > > > > > > > > support site.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > H> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >

> >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Very true. And it's important that you (and others) who are doing well on MCBs

come here and remind us of that! So often it's only the people who are having

problems who post (creating an unintended bias in and of itself).

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > There has been some research posted about the failure

of

> > > > > > > > > > surgery many years

> > > > > > > > > > > > > later. If you have one adenoma, you could very well

develop

> > > > > > > > > > another on the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > other adrenal. That's why Dr. Grim recommends DASH,

meds first

> > > > > > > > > > and surgery

> > > > > > > > > > > > > last. I don't want opinions; I want facts supported by

> > > > > > > > > > research, or at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > least by expert opinion.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Val

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism

> > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf

Of

> > > > > > > > > > hesterfenwick

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it is about how to find the discussions because

> > > > > > > > > > searching thtough old

> > > > > > > > > > > > > discussions is nigh-on impossible by thread title. But

I never

> > > > > > > > > > had any

> > > > > > > > > > > > > response to my 'pros and cons' question beyond being

told DASH

> > > > > > > > > > and meds was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the way to go - despite pressing and pressing for the

> > > > > > > > > > equivalent analysis on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > surgery. And in the year since then I've seen very

little

> > > > > > > > > > support for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > surgery. Now in my case (under 40, clear adenoma, BP

> > > > > > > > > > controlled my minimal

> > > > > > > > > > > > > meds, PA short term) it was a no-brainer according to

all the

> > > > > > > > > > other research

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I could lay my hands on.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > When I got no response on here to surgery questions, I

did

> > > > > > > > > > trawl through Pub

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Med and every other piece of research I could find -

but it

> > > > > > > > > > would have been

> > > > > > > > > > > > > lovely to have been able to speed that up by getting

some

> > > > > > > > > > facts on here to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > begin with. And I'm guessing that's what many others

do - they

> > > > > > > > > > come on here

> > > > > > > > > > > > > as a first port of call but then move on to doing

their own

> > > > > > > > > > fundamental

> > > > > > > > > > > > > research or go with their medical teams advice and

never come

> > > > > > > > > > back.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > It's great, fantastic, that so many of you are fervent

> > > > > > > > > > supporters of DASH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > and meds. Really - I absolutely mean that. But that

doesn't

> > > > > > > > > > mean there isn't

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ever a case for surgery. Now I'll do my best to be

equally

> > > > > > > > > > fervent in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > support of surgery when I think somebody has a case

for it -

> > > > > > > > > > that's why I'm

> > > > > > > > > > > > > still here. Because that's how it's all going to work,

imho.

> > > > > > > > > > But I'm not a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > medic and I won't be up to date with the latest

research so

> > > > > > > > > > I'll never carry

> > > > > > > > > > > > > as much weight as many of you. So hopefully there will

be

> > > > > > > > > > others around

> > > > > > > > > > > > > giving an alternative view-point too. And if that

isn't

> > > > > > > > > > welcome then there

> > > > > > > > > > > > > should be something in the intro about this being a

forum for

> > > > > > > > > > supporting

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Conn's sufferers through diet and meds rather than it

being a

> > > > > > > > > > general PA

> > > > > > > > > > > > > support site.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > H

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

IMPORTANT WARNING:

Spironolactone has caused tumors in laboratory animals. Talk to your doctor

about the risks and benefits of using this medication for your condition.

Why is this medication prescribed?

Source: MedLine Plus

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I'm going to take exception to your " whole lot of

opinions "

> > > > > > > > > > comment. Many times I reference professional articles so the

only

> > > > > > > > > > opinion I give is that I think this article may have value -

you

> > > > > > > > > > judge the quality if you choose to review it! I try to be

careful

> > > > > > > > > > not to practice med. w/o a license!

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

>

[Guest guest]

WARNING Spironolactone Tablets have been shown to be a tumorigen in chronic toxicity studies in rats (see Precautions). Spironolactone Tablets should be used only in those conditions described under Indications and Usage. Unnecessary use of this drug should be avoided.

I'm reading this as it can cause tumors in rats when given over a long period of time in doses so large that it causes toxicity. I don't see where it says anything about causing tumors in humans when given at the recommended dose.

To: hyperaldosteronism Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 2:08 PMSubject: Re: Medical Opinions vs FactsIMPORTANT WARNING: Spironolactone has caused tumors in laboratory animals. Talk to your doctor about the risks and benefits of using this medication for your condition.Why is this medication prescribed?Source: MedLine

Plus> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > I'm going to take exception to your "whole lot of opinions" > > > > > > > > > > comment. Many times I reference professional articles so the only > > > > > > > > > > opinion I give is that I think this article may have value - you > > > > > > > > > > judge the quality if you choose to review it! I try to be careful > > > > > > > > > > not to practice med. w/o a license!> > > > >

> > > > > >> > >>------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

They tell me if I drive my Mark VIII down the interstate at speeds of 100mph the

likelyhood of me dying from HTN caused by PA is greatly reduced! I test that

theory often and so far I can report that they are WRONG!

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I'm going to take exception to your " whole lot of

opinions "

> > > > > > > > > > > comment. Many times I reference professional articles so

the only

> > > > > > > > > > > opinion I give is th

>

[Guest guest]

I have pointed to this site many times

http://hyperaldosteronism.blogspot.com/

Good bias for surgery

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > There has been some research posted about the

failure of

> > > > > > > > > > > surgery many years

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > later. If you have one adenoma, you could very well

develop

> > > > > > > > > > > another on the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > other adrenal. That's why Dr. Grim recommends DASH,

meds first

> > > > > > > > > > > and surgery

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > last. I don't want opinions; I want facts supported

by

> > > > > > > > > > > research, or at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > least by expert opinion.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Val

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On

Behalf Of

> > > > > > > > > > > hesterfenwick

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it is about how to find the discussions

because

> > > > > > > > > > > searching thtough old

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussions is nigh-on impossible by thread title.

But I never

> > > > > > > > > > > had any

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > response to my 'pros and cons' question beyond being

told DASH

> > > > > > > > > > > and meds was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the way to go - despite pressing and pressing for

the

> > > > > > > > > > > equivalent analysis on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > surgery. And in the year since then I've seen very

little

> > > > > > > > > > > support for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > surgery. Now in my case (under 40, clear adenoma, BP

> > > > > > > > > > > controlled my minimal

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > meds, PA short term) it was a no-brainer according

to all the

> > > > > > > > > > > other research

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I could lay my hands on.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I got no response on here to surgery questions,

I did

> > > > > > > > > > > trawl through Pub

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Med and every other piece of research I could find -

but it

> > > > > > > > > > > would have been

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > lovely to have been able to speed that up by getting

some

> > > > > > > > > > > facts on here to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > begin with. And I'm guessing that's what many others

do - they

> > > > > > > > > > > come on here

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > as a first port of call but then move on to doing

their own

> > > > > > > > > > > fundamental

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > research or go with their medical teams advice and

never come

> > > > > > > > > > > back.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's great, fantastic, that so many of you are

fervent

> > > > > > > > > > > supporters of DASH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and meds. Really - I absolutely mean that. But that

doesn't

> > > > > > > > > > > mean there isn't

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ever a case for surgery. Now I'll do my best to be

equally

> > > > > > > > > > > fervent in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > support of surgery when I think somebody has a case

for it -

> > > > > > > > > > > that's why I'm

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > still here. Because that's how it's all going to

work, imho.

> > > > > > > > > > > But I'm not a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > medic and I won't be up to date with the latest

research so

> > > > > > > > > > > I'll never carry

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > as much weight as many of you. So hopefully there

will be

> > > > > > > > > > > others around

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving an alternative view-point too. And if that

isn't

> > > > > > > > > > > welcome then there

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > should be something in the intro about this being a

forum for

> > > > > > > > > > > supporting

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Conn's sufferers through diet and meds rather than

it being a

> > > > > > > > > > > general PA

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > support site.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > H

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