Re: Safety and effectiveness of Cutler protocol

[Guest guest]

It needs to be all addressed simultaneously. Yes you are right you need to be careful with agents that affect neurotransmitters and HPA directly, ALA included. Best find a doc who is familiar. Who is your DAN!? if you are in UK I recommend dr Goyal at Breakspear www.breakspearmedical.com, worth discussing this at lenght.

how severe is you son btw?

Natasa

> > >> > > Dear All, > > > > > > We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We introduced supplementing protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped back, increased antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these back and forth steps several times since then. Because of candida, we've faced a lot of regression, mainly behavioural, no progress in skills. Our son stopped enjoying playground, scooter, pool. We didn't take him to vocation although three years ago we did. Now he becomes excausted after being few minutes active outside. > > > Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes. > > > I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to improve after a year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have now gives me a hint that it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see only candida. > > > I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked in his body his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet, now he is silly and angry, that's all difference. I am very much affraid that I will never get my boy back.> > > Are there any parents who faced the same regression following Cutler protocol? I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing vitamins causes so much yeast that it looks like it will never be gone. Did anyone had such a long and severe regress, and then, progress? > > > > > > > > >> >>

[Guest guest]

I cannot imagine how I would feel on 2 yers of chelation without adrenal

Cortex extract .

I would get some ASAP from MandiMart.

Kirsty

X

> >

> > Dear All,

> >

> > We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We introduced supplementing

protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped back, increased

antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these back and forth steps

several times since then. Because of candida, we've faced a lot of regression,

mainly behavioural, no progress in skills. Our son stopped enjoying playground,

scooter, pool. We didn't take him to vocation although three years ago we did.

Now he becomes excausted after being few minutes active outside.

> > Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes.

> > I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to improve after

a year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have now gives me a hint

that it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see only candida.

> > I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked in his body

his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet, now he is silly and

angry, that's all difference. I am very much affraid that I will never get my

boy back.

> > Are there any parents who faced the same regression following Cutler

protocol? I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing vitamins causes

so much yeast that it looks like it will never be gone. Did anyone had such a

long and severe regress, and then, progress?

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Personally, if I was using a practitioner who presided over serious regression,

I would stop using them.

Margaret

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We introduced supplementing

protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped back, increased

antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these back and forth steps

several times since then. Because of candida, we've faced a lot of regression,

mainly behavioural, no progress in skills. Our son stopped enjoying playground,

scooter, pool. We didn't take him to vocation although three years ago we did.

Now he becomes excausted after being few minutes active outside.

> > > Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes.

> > > I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to improve

after a year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have now gives me a

hint that it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see only candida.

> > > I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked in his

body his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet, now he is silly

and angry, that's all difference. I am very much affraid that I will never get

my boy back.

> > > Are there any parents who faced the same regression following Cutler

protocol? I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing vitamins causes

so much yeast that it looks like it will never be gone. Did anyone had such a

long and severe regress, and then, progress?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Kirsty,

Did you have any troubles with introducing it?

My son was prompt to hypoglicemic attacks in the beginning. With B5 we were able to stop them, but the very first trial dose of AdrenErgizer from Nutricology brought them back. I tried it myself, and had the same reaction. Because with B5 we didn't have this side effect, I sticked to high dose of it, giving 1500mg daily.

> > >> > > Dear All, > > > > > > We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We introduced supplementing protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped back, increased antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these back and forth steps several times since then. Because of candida, we've faced a lot of regression, mainly behavioural, no progress in skills. Our son stopped enjoying playground, scooter, pool. We didn't take him to vocation although three years ago we did. Now he becomes excausted after being few minutes active outside. > > > Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes. > > > I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to improve after a year or two of chelation. But

nothing from what we have now gives me a hint that it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see only candida. > > > I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked in his body his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet, now he is silly and angry, that's all difference. I am very much affraid that I will never get my boy back.> > > Are there any parents who faced the same regression following Cutler protocol? I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing vitamins causes so much yeast that it looks like it will never be gone. Did anyone had such a long and severe regress, and then, progress? > > > > > > > > >> >>

[Guest guest]

I am in Austria. We went to a DAN in Poland to order tests, that's all she was helpful for.

Natasa, what is btw?

To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 2:49 PMSubject: Re: Safety and effectiveness of Cutler protocol

It needs to be all addressed simultaneously. Yes you are right you need to be careful with agents that affect neurotransmitters and HPA directly, ALA included. Best find a doc who is familiar. Who is your DAN!? if you are in UK I recommend dr Goyal at Breakspear www.breakspearmedical.com, worth discussing this at lenght.

how severe is you son btw?

Natasa

> > >> > > Dear All, > > > > > > We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We introduced supplementing protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped back, increased antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these back and forth steps several times since then. Because of candida, we've faced a lot of regression, mainly behavioural, no progress in skills. Our son stopped enjoying playground, scooter, pool. We didn't take him to vocation although three years ago we did. Now he becomes excausted after being few minutes active outside. > > > Is this all what we've reached during two

years? Yes. > > > I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to improve after a year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have now gives me a hint that it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see only candida. > > > I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked in his body his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet, now he is silly and angry, that's all difference. I am very much affraid that I will never get my boy back.> > > Are there any parents who faced the same regression following Cutler protocol? I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing vitamins causes so much yeast that it looks like it will never be gone. Did anyone had such a long and severe regress, and then, progress? > > > > > > > > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Its very unusual for a DAN to be using Cutper protocol, are they in the UK? Just need for future reference

Mandi x

We did NutrEval test with Genova labs. It showed his amino acids, organic acids, vitamins and minerals status. There were some recomendations on necessary supplementation. By the time that we performed the test, we had already all supps on board, so it was double check for us, to make sure we don't give him something that he doesn't need. This test confirmed yeast and bacteria, also, and we supplemented accordingly.

Yes, I am very much sure that it's all yeast. He has regular BM, although at times, sheep-like. He eats a lot, always hungry.

With adrenals, it was tricky. When we tried licorice, his eyes swallowed due to too much water kept in the body, I beleive. I stopped licorice. AndrenErgizer increased his hypoglicemia attacks and stopped it after some trials also. His daily salvia cortisol test showed malfunctioning of adrenals and recomended high B5 doses which we do.

With high doses of antifungals we balance on the side where we can tolerate it. But overall, it's a regression. The main reason for me to think it's all yeast is that any attempt to decrease anti, is followed by dicline in behavior. It is not that I am tried. I am just worried that I bring my son to nowhere by provocking his gut and brain yeast.

To: autism-biomedical-europe Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 11:01 AMSubject: RE: Re: Safety and effectiveness of Cutler protocol

Hi Have you carried out a stool test to confirm yeast? Have you got good adrenal support in for your child? Is he moving his bowels regulary? What other test have you completed lately? x

To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: m.collins9@...Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 08:46:06 +0000Subject: Re: Safety and effectiveness of Cutler protocol

Hello , I believe this is your first post? I wondered why you have decided that your child's regression was caused by the AC protocol. Your child does sound quite ill and I wondered whether you have tried to find out why, as there could be a large number of reasons for this and it can be far from easy doing the detective work. I am no expert in the AC protocol and I have no experience of chelation, by the way. My experience with supplments and diet is that I have personally found it (nearly always) virtually impossible to know when a change (whether a good development, such as language, or an undesirable one, such as stimming and self-injurious behaviour)is due to biomed or simply to either natural development or caused by frustration, boredom etc. This is the reason I am asking by what means you have established that the cause of your child's deterioration is yeast - it is very hard to kow what is causing what. If you think it is the AC protocol have you stopped chelation? I know my post may seem a bit abrupt but, like many people here, I am a worn out mum and I try to keep things short. I hope you get some helpful replies here.Best wishes, Margaret>> Dear All, > > We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We introduced supplementing protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped back, increased antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these back and forth steps several times since then. Because of candida, we've faced a lot of regression, mainly behavioural, no progress in skills. Our son stopped enjoying playground, scooter, pool. We didn't take him to vocation although three years ago we did. Now he becomes excausted after being few minutes active outside. > Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes. > I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to improve after a year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have now gives me a hint that it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see only candida. > I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked in his body his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet, now he is silly and angry, that's all difference. I am very much affraid that I will never get my boy back.> Are there any parents who faced the same regression following Cutler protocol? I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing vitamins causes so much yeast that it looks like it will never be gone. Did anyone had such a long and severe regress, and then, progress? > > >

[Guest guest]

That is very high dose, makes me feel nausea without food and contains lots of other glandulars also, you are better sticking with straight Adrenal Cortrex Extract IME

Mandi x

AdrenErgizer

[Guest guest]

HI , I put Tom on Nystatin before I put him on Valtrex and so we

have not experienced a lot of yeast (Jean's advice).

I didn't test for herpes antibodies. I don't protect the kidneys in any

way but he takes Liverlife for his liver and we have regular blood tests

to test his liver and kidneys.

Sara x

[Guest guest]

we started nystatin few weeks after valtrex (never start them at the same time) but ds didn't react well to it. No yeast problem here before or after we stopped nystatin, but that is probably quite unusual...>> HI , I put Tom on Nystatin before I put him on Valtrex and so we > have not experienced a lot of yeast (Jean's advice).> I didn't test for herpes antibodies. I don't protect the kidneys in any > way but he takes Liverlife for his liver and we have regular blood tests > to test his liver and kidneys.> Sara x>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sara,

Can you tell me more about how you decided to start Valtrex? I have several packs at home, but never was brave enough to start giving them to my son. However, we do have some history of herp in the close family.

PS: I gave him vit A today. Just pocked a 10,000 capsule and put two drops in his food. I see more candida signs today - more hunger and staying up to late... We need to get protocol on board in order to restart chelation..

Sara

To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 1:40 PMSubject: Re: Safety and effectiveness of Cutler protocol

HI , I put Tom on Nystatin before I put him on Valtrex and so we have not experienced a lot of yeast (Jean's advice).I didn't test for herpes antibodies. I don't protect the kidneys in any way but he takes Liverlife for his liver and we have regular blood tests to test his liver and kidneys.Sara x

[Guest guest]

Mandi, we didn't do AC protocol with DAN. We decided to do it ourselves. So I don't know which DAN does it.

.

To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 11:37 PMSubject: Re: Re: Safety and effectiveness of Cutler protocol

Its very unusual for a DAN to be using Cutper protocol, are they in the UK? Just need for future reference

Mandi x

We did NutrEval test with Genova labs. It showed his amino acids, organic acids, vitamins and minerals status. There were some recomendations on necessary supplementation. By the time that we performed the test, we had already all supps on board, so it was double check for us, to make sure we don't give him something that he doesn't need. This test confirmed yeast and bacteria, also, and we supplemented accordingly.

Yes, I am very much sure that it's all yeast. He has regular BM, although at times, sheep-like. He eats a lot, always hungry.

With adrenals, it was tricky. When we tried licorice, his eyes swallowed due to too much water kept in the body, I beleive. I stopped licorice. AndrenErgizer increased his hypoglicemia attacks and stopped it after some trials also. His daily salvia cortisol test showed malfunctioning of adrenals and recomended high B5 doses which we do.

With high doses of antifungals we balance on the side where we can tolerate it. But overall, it's a regression. The main reason for me to think it's all yeast is that any attempt to decrease anti, is followed by dicline in behavior. It is not that I am tried. I am just worried that I bring my son to nowhere by provocking his gut and brain yeast.

To: autism-biomedical-europe Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 11:01 AMSubject: RE: Re: Safety and effectiveness of Cutler protocol

Hi Have you carried out a stool test to confirm yeast? Have you got good adrenal support in for your child? Is he moving his bowels regulary? What other test have you completed lately? x

To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: m.collins9@...Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 08:46:06 +0000Subject: Re: Safety and effectiveness of Cutler protocol

Hello , I believe this is your first post? I wondered why you have decided that your child's regression was caused by the AC protocol. Your child does sound quite ill and I wondered whether you have tried to find out why, as there could be a large number of reasons for this and it can be far from easy doing the detective work. I am no expert in the AC protocol and I have no experience of chelation, by the way. My experience with supplments and diet is that I have personally found it (nearly always) virtually impossible to know when a change (whether a good development, such as language, or an undesirable one, such as stimming and self-injurious behaviour)is due to biomed or simply to either natural development or caused by frustration, boredom etc. This is the reason I am asking by what means you have established that the cause of your child's deterioration is yeast - it is very hard to kow what is causing what.

If you think it is the AC protocol have you stopped chelation? I know my post may seem a bit abrupt but, like many people here, I am a worn out mum and I try to keep things short. I hope you get some helpful replies here.Best wishes, Margaret>> Dear All, > > We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We introduced supplementing protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped back, increased antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these back and forth steps several times since then. Because of candida, we've faced a lot of regression, mainly behavioural, no progress in skills. Our son stopped

enjoying playground, scooter, pool. We didn't take him to vocation although three years ago we did. Now he becomes excausted after being few minutes active outside. > Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes. > I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to improve after a year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have now gives me a hint that it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see only candida. > I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked in his body his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet, now he is silly and angry, that's all difference. I am very much affraid that I will never get my boy back.> Are there any parents who faced the same regression following Cutler protocol? I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing vitamins causes so much yeast that it looks like it will never be gone. Did anyone had such a long and severe

regress, and then, progress? > > >

[Guest guest]

Mandi, we didn't do AC protocol with DAN. We decided to do it ourselves. So I don't know which DAN does it.

.

To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 11:37 PMSubject: Re: Re: Safety and effectiveness of Cutler protocol

Its very unusual for a DAN to be using Cutper protocol, are they in the UK? Just need for future reference

Mandi x

We did NutrEval test with Genova labs. It showed his amino acids, organic acids, vitamins and minerals status. There were some recomendations on necessary supplementation. By the time that we performed the test, we had already all supps on board, so it was double check for us, to make sure we don't give him something that he doesn't need. This test confirmed yeast and bacteria, also, and we supplemented accordingly.

Yes, I am very much sure that it's all yeast. He has regular BM, although at times, sheep-like. He eats a lot, always hungry.

With adrenals, it was tricky. When we tried licorice, his eyes swallowed due to too much water kept in the body, I beleive. I stopped licorice. AndrenErgizer increased his hypoglicemia attacks and stopped it after some trials also. His daily salvia cortisol test showed malfunctioning of adrenals and recomended high B5 doses which we do.

With high doses of antifungals we balance on the side where we can tolerate it. But overall, it's a regression. The main reason for me to think it's all yeast is that any attempt to decrease anti, is followed by dicline in behavior. It is not that I am tried. I am just worried that I bring my son to nowhere by provocking his gut and brain yeast.

To: autism-biomedical-europe Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 11:01 AMSubject: RE: Re: Safety and effectiveness of Cutler protocol

Hi Have you carried out a stool test to confirm yeast? Have you got good adrenal support in for your child? Is he moving his bowels regulary? What other test have you completed lately? x

To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: m.collins9@...Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 08:46:06 +0000Subject: Re: Safety and effectiveness of Cutler protocol

Hello , I believe this is your first post? I wondered why you have decided that your child's regression was caused by the AC protocol. Your child does sound quite ill and I wondered whether you have tried to find out why, as there could be a large number of reasons for this and it can be far from easy doing the detective work. I am no expert in the AC protocol and I have no experience of chelation, by the way. My experience with supplments and diet is that I have personally found it (nearly always) virtually impossible to know when a change (whether a good development, such as language, or an undesirable one, such as stimming and self-injurious behaviour)is due to biomed or simply to either natural development or caused by frustration, boredom etc. This is the reason I am asking by what means you have established that the cause of your child's deterioration is yeast - it is very hard to kow what is causing what.

If you think it is the AC protocol have you stopped chelation? I know my post may seem a bit abrupt but, like many people here, I am a worn out mum and I try to keep things short. I hope you get some helpful replies here.Best wishes, Margaret>> Dear All, > > We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We introduced supplementing protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped back, increased antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these back and forth steps several times since then. Because of candida, we've faced a lot of regression, mainly behavioural, no progress in skills. Our son stopped

enjoying playground, scooter, pool. We didn't take him to vocation although three years ago we did. Now he becomes excausted after being few minutes active outside. > Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes. > I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to improve after a year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have now gives me a hint that it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see only candida. > I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked in his body his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet, now he is silly and angry, that's all difference. I am very much affraid that I will never get my boy back.> Are there any parents who faced the same regression following Cutler protocol? I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing vitamins causes so much yeast that it looks like it will never be gone. Did anyone had such a long and severe

regress, and then, progress? > > >

[Guest guest]

It must feel very disheartening but I wouldn't under estimate the power of

yeast. We haven't done any chelation now for over 2 years and the one problem

we no longer have is yeast. I'm sure it's there but we have none of that

drunken, silly, giggling stuff at all. We DO have bacteria from time to time.

Chelation causes yeast, so I wonder if it's simply masking any progress? If you

stop chelation you can probably solve the yeast problem, but that's not the

ultimate aim I guess.

Thinking of you, it's very hard when you're trying so hard and not getting

anywhere, or not seeming to

Steph

>

> Dear All,

>

> We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We introduced supplementing

protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped back, increased

antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these back and forth steps

several times since then. Because of candida, we've faced a lot of regression,

mainly behavioural, no progress in skills. Our son stopped enjoying playground,

scooter, pool. We didn't take him to vocation although three years ago we did.

Now he becomes excausted after being few minutes active outside.

> Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes.

> I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to improve after a

year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have now gives me a hint that

it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see only candida.

> I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked in his body

his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet, now he is silly and

angry, that's all difference. I am very much affraid that I will never get my

boy back.

> Are there any parents who faced the same regression following Cutler protocol?

I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing vitamins causes so much

yeast that it looks like it will never be gone. Did anyone had such a long and

severe regress, and then, progress?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It must feel very disheartening but I wouldn't under estimate the power of

yeast. We haven't done any chelation now for over 2 years and the one problem

we no longer have is yeast. I'm sure it's there but we have none of that

drunken, silly, giggling stuff at all. We DO have bacteria from time to time.

Chelation causes yeast, so I wonder if it's simply masking any progress? If you

stop chelation you can probably solve the yeast problem, but that's not the

ultimate aim I guess.

Thinking of you, it's very hard when you're trying so hard and not getting

anywhere, or not seeming to

Steph

>

> Dear All,

>

> We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We introduced supplementing

protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped back, increased

antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these back and forth steps

several times since then. Because of candida, we've faced a lot of regression,

mainly behavioural, no progress in skills. Our son stopped enjoying playground,

scooter, pool. We didn't take him to vocation although three years ago we did.

Now he becomes excausted after being few minutes active outside.

> Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes.

> I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to improve after a

year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have now gives me a hint that

it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see only candida.

> I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked in his body

his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet, now he is silly and

angry, that's all difference. I am very much affraid that I will never get my

boy back.

> Are there any parents who faced the same regression following Cutler protocol?

I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing vitamins causes so much

yeast that it looks like it will never be gone. Did anyone had such a long and

severe regress, and then, progress?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It must feel very disheartening but I wouldn't under estimate the power of

yeast. We haven't done any chelation now for over 2 years and the one problem

we no longer have is yeast. I'm sure it's there but we have none of that

drunken, silly, giggling stuff at all. We DO have bacteria from time to time.

Chelation causes yeast, so I wonder if it's simply masking any progress? If you

stop chelation you can probably solve the yeast problem, but that's not the

ultimate aim I guess.

Thinking of you, it's very hard when you're trying so hard and not getting

anywhere, or not seeming to

Steph

>

> Dear All,

>

> We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We introduced supplementing

protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped back, increased

antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these back and forth steps

several times since then. Because of candida, we've faced a lot of regression,

mainly behavioural, no progress in skills. Our son stopped enjoying playground,

scooter, pool. We didn't take him to vocation although three years ago we did.

Now he becomes excausted after being few minutes active outside.

> Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes.

> I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to improve after a

year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have now gives me a hint that

it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see only candida.

> I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked in his body

his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet, now he is silly and

angry, that's all difference. I am very much affraid that I will never get my

boy back.

> Are there any parents who faced the same regression following Cutler protocol?

I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing vitamins causes so much

yeast that it looks like it will never be gone. Did anyone had such a long and

severe regress, and then, progress?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It must feel very disheartening but I wouldn't under estimate the power of

yeast. We haven't done any chelation now for over 2 years and the one problem

we no longer have is yeast. I'm sure it's there but we have none of that

drunken, silly, giggling stuff at all. We DO have bacteria from time to time.

Chelation causes yeast, so I wonder if it's simply masking any progress? If you

stop chelation you can probably solve the yeast problem, but that's not the

ultimate aim I guess.

Thinking of you, it's very hard when you're trying so hard and not getting

anywhere, or not seeming to

Steph

>

> Dear All,

>

> We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We introduced supplementing

protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped back, increased

antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these back and forth steps

several times since then. Because of candida, we've faced a lot of regression,

mainly behavioural, no progress in skills. Our son stopped enjoying playground,

scooter, pool. We didn't take him to vocation although three years ago we did.

Now he becomes excausted after being few minutes active outside.

> Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes.

> I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to improve after a

year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have now gives me a hint that

it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see only candida.

> I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked in his body

his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet, now he is silly and

angry, that's all difference. I am very much affraid that I will never get my

boy back.

> Are there any parents who faced the same regression following Cutler protocol?

I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing vitamins causes so much

yeast that it looks like it will never be gone. Did anyone had such a long and

severe regress, and then, progress?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, when we stop everything, he is releived from stress for short time. After that, within few days, he regresses back to pre-chelation status. So it seems to be bad with supps, bad without them, and good only short time in between right after we stop supps.

To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 12:15 PMSubject: Re: Safety and effectiveness of Cutler protocol

It must feel very disheartening but I wouldn't under estimate the power of yeast. We haven't done any chelation now for over 2 years and the one problem we no longer have is yeast. I'm sure it's there but we have none of that drunken, silly, giggling stuff at all. We DO have bacteria from time to time. Chelation causes yeast, so I wonder if it's simply masking any progress? If you stop chelation you can probably solve the yeast problem, but that's not the ultimate aim I guess.Thinking of you, it's very hard when you're trying so hard and not getting anywhere, or not seeming toSteph >> Dear All, > > We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We

introduced supplementing protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped back, increased antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these back and forth steps several times since then. Because of candida, we've faced a lot of regression, mainly behavioural, no progress in skills. Our son stopped enjoying playground, scooter, pool. We didn't take him to vocation although three years ago we did. Now he becomes excausted after being few minutes active outside. > Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes. > I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to improve after a year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have now gives me a hint that it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see only candida. > I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked in his body his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet, now he is silly and angry, that's all difference. I am

very much affraid that I will never get my boy back.> Are there any parents who faced the same regression following Cutler protocol? I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing vitamins causes so much yeast that it looks like it will never be gone. Did anyone had such a long and severe regress, and then, progress? > > >

[Guest guest]

Yes, when we stop everything, he is releived from stress for short time. After that, within few days, he regresses back to pre-chelation status. So it seems to be bad with supps, bad without them, and good only short time in between right after we stop supps.

To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 12:15 PMSubject: Re: Safety and effectiveness of Cutler protocol

It must feel very disheartening but I wouldn't under estimate the power of yeast. We haven't done any chelation now for over 2 years and the one problem we no longer have is yeast. I'm sure it's there but we have none of that drunken, silly, giggling stuff at all. We DO have bacteria from time to time. Chelation causes yeast, so I wonder if it's simply masking any progress? If you stop chelation you can probably solve the yeast problem, but that's not the ultimate aim I guess.Thinking of you, it's very hard when you're trying so hard and not getting anywhere, or not seeming toSteph >> Dear All, > > We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We

introduced supplementing protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped back, increased antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these back and forth steps several times since then. Because of candida, we've faced a lot of regression, mainly behavioural, no progress in skills. Our son stopped enjoying playground, scooter, pool. We didn't take him to vocation although three years ago we did. Now he becomes excausted after being few minutes active outside. > Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes. > I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to improve after a year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have now gives me a hint that it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see only candida. > I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked in his body his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet, now he is silly and angry, that's all difference. I am

very much affraid that I will never get my boy back.> Are there any parents who faced the same regression following Cutler protocol? I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing vitamins causes so much yeast that it looks like it will never be gone. Did anyone had such a long and severe regress, and then, progress? > > >

[Guest guest]

,

If you do think that yeast could be at least part of the problem, could you tell

us what you have done for it? It sounds to me that if you stop the supps and

see good stuff, there is at least one supp that your child isn't tolerating, but

also some supps that he requires. I've heard of lots of people treating yeast

who use stuff like GSE which ends up giving kids bacterial issues, which can

cause aggression, anger, etc. If you can let us know what you did, that is at

least a place to start while you're investigating the other issues that may

require someone at the Breakspear.

Anita

> >

> > Dear All,

> >

> > We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We introduced supplementing

protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped back, increased

antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these back and forth steps

several times since then. Because of candida, we've faced a lot of regression,

mainly behavioural, no progress in skills. Our son stopped enjoying playground,

scooter, pool. We didn't take him to vocation although three years ago we did.

Now he becomes excausted after being few minutes active outside.

> > Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes.

> > I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to improve after

a year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have now gives me a hint

that it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see only candida.

> > I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked in his body

his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet, now he is silly and

angry, that's all difference. I am very much affraid that I will never get my

boy back.

> > Are there any parents who faced the same regression following Cutler

protocol? I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing vitamins causes

so much yeast that it looks like it will never be gone. Did anyone had such a

long and severe regress, and then, progress?

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

If you do think that yeast could be at least part of the problem, could you tell

us what you have done for it? It sounds to me that if you stop the supps and

see good stuff, there is at least one supp that your child isn't tolerating, but

also some supps that he requires. I've heard of lots of people treating yeast

who use stuff like GSE which ends up giving kids bacterial issues, which can

cause aggression, anger, etc. If you can let us know what you did, that is at

least a place to start while you're investigating the other issues that may

require someone at the Breakspear.

Anita

> >

> > Dear All,

> >

> > We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We introduced supplementing

protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped back, increased

antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these back and forth steps

several times since then. Because of candida, we've faced a lot of regression,

mainly behavioural, no progress in skills. Our son stopped enjoying playground,

scooter, pool. We didn't take him to vocation although three years ago we did.

Now he becomes excausted after being few minutes active outside.

> > Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes.

> > I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to improve after

a year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have now gives me a hint

that it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see only candida.

> > I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked in his body

his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet, now he is silly and

angry, that's all difference. I am very much affraid that I will never get my

boy back.

> > Are there any parents who faced the same regression following Cutler

protocol? I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing vitamins causes

so much yeast that it looks like it will never be gone. Did anyone had such a

long and severe regress, and then, progress?

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I had on years of gut healing before I did chelation, jmo of my particular child but I knew instinctively he could not handle anymore gut issues and so held off. His problems were severe though, but been chelating over a year now and not encountered any problems at all, no yeast flares.

The advice is not to wait, not to try and heal the gut first but I think there are always exceptions and ultimately everything is individual it's working out the best way for each child that's the tricky bit.

Vicky

Re: Safety and effectiveness of Cutler protocol

,

If you do think that yeast could be at least part of the problem, could you tell us what you have done for it? It sounds to me that if you stop the supps and see good stuff, there is at least one supp that your child isn't tolerating, but also some supps that he requires. I've heard of lots of people treating yeast who use stuff like GSE which ends up giving kids bacterial issues, which can cause aggression, anger, etc. If you can let us know what you did, that is at least a place to start while you're investigating the other issues that may require someone at the Breakspear.

Anita

> >

> > Dear All,

> >

> > We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We introduced supplementing protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped back, increased antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these back and forth steps several times since then. Because of candida, we've faced a lot of regression, mainly behavioural, no progress in skills. Our son stopped enjoying playground, scooter, pool. We didn't take him to vocation although three years ago we did. Now he becomes excausted after being few minutes active outside.

> > Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes.

> > I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to improve after a year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have now gives me a hint that it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see only candida.

> > I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked in his body his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet, now he is silly and angry, that's all difference. I am very much affraid that I will never get my boy back.

> > Are there any parents who faced the same regression following Cutler protocol? I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing vitamins causes so much yeast that it looks like it will never be gone. Did anyone had such a long and severe regress, and then, progress?

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

If yeast or bacteria were the problem here I don't think that the symptoms would go away each time as soon as offending supplements were stopped. A pattern of on-off regression and relief of symptoms to me definitely sounds like he was reacting directly to an agent here, whether ALA or something else that was given alongside it EACH time.If there were times when you gave only ALA, that is without other supplements, and still had a same bad reaction that would go away after stopping, then no doubt whatsoever it was affecting him directly, and not through yeast or bacteria or metals.First few things that spring to mind here 'histamines' (is he a sensitive kid?), 'serotonin' (lots of irritability? argumentative?) 'adrenergic function', 'blood glucose'... ALA can affect all those directly, and all are interlinked. Natasa > > >> > > Dear All, > > > > > > We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We introduced supplementing protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped back, increased antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these back and forth steps several times since then. Because of candida, we've faced a lot of regression, mainly behavioural, no progress in skills. Our son stopped enjoying playground, scooter, pool. We didn't take him to vocation although three years ago we did. Now he becomes excausted after being few minutes active outside. > > > Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes. > > > I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to improve after a year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have now gives me a hint that it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see only candida. > > > I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked in his body his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet, now he is silly and angry, that's all difference. I am very much affraid that I will never get my boy back.> > > Are there any parents who faced the same regression following Cutler protocol? I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing vitamins causes so much yeast that it looks like it will never be gone. Did anyone had such a long and severe regress, and then, progress? > > > > > > > > >> >>

[Guest guest]

,

I think is right here, if your child's gut is in such a poor state as

described, then you need to get this sorted first, otherwise you are going to

have lots of problems with whatever you do IMHO...

i would look to Vicky's as a good example of this, his gut was in a very

bad way, but Vicky has worked hard at healing this and only started chelation

when she felt his body (and gut) could handle it and he is doing really well on

chelation now...

Also, i would have serious doubts about staying with a practitioner who allowed

this situation to continue for so long, without considering the status of your

childs gut...

Nikki

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We introduced

> > supplementing protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped

> > back, increased antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these

> > back and forth steps several times since then. Because of candida, we've

> > faced a lot of regression, mainly behavioural, no progress in skills.

> > Our son stopped enjoying playground, scooter, pool. We didn't take him

> > to vocation although three years ago we did. Now he becomes excausted

> > after being few minutes active outside.

> > > > > > Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes.

> > > > > > I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to

> > improve after a year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have

> > now gives me a hint that it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see

> > only candida.

> > > > > > I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked

> > in his body his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet,

> > now he is silly and angry, that's all difference. I am very much affraid

> > that I will never get my boy back.

> > > > > > Are there any parents who faced the same regression following

> > Cutler protocol? I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing

> > vitamins causes so much yeast that it looks like it will never be gone.

> > Did anyone had such a long and severe regress, and then, progress?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > DISCLAIMER

> > No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice.

If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified

practitioner.

> >

[Guest guest]

,

Is your son getting the b50 all in one dose?

I would say the C is not sufficient, given what you say that CoQ10 was good for

your son.

I don't think adrenergize is the best product and would try to find some plain

adrenal cortex extract to try.

I would say that's not enough essential fatty acids for most kids--this can make

big difference for happiness levels.

Anti-parasitics can be very hard on people--I wouldn't use them except as part

of a specific protocol.

I wouldn't use high doses of GSE or OoO for yeast. Both can cause bacterial

overgrowth, especially if not used with very high doses of probiotics, which I

don't see you giving.

I assume you mean mCg of selenium?

As has been mentioned, calcium can be bad for some kids--I don't see Vit K,

which can help with calcium problems for some kids.

It sounds to me like this has nothing to do with chelation, but more to do with

supplementation. I would agree with trying a clear out. I would also suggest

slippery elm if you think there is gut pain. Don't give this with any other

supps--it's good to give in the middle of the night. I would think that high

doses of probiotics might be helpful. I would stop using GSE all together. 20

rounds of chelation can not make much of a difference if there is a lot of other

stuff masking any progress.

In general, I would not recommend postponing chelation if you think it is

necesssary, because of gut issues; however, you do need to get your child in a

place where they can tolerate the key supplements.

Anita

> > > >

> > > > Dear All,

> > > >

> > > > We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We introduced

supplementing protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped back,

increased antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these back and forth

steps several times since then. Because of candida, we've faced a lot of

regression, mainly behavioural, no progress in skills. Our son stopped enjoying

playground, scooter, pool. We didn't take him to vocation although three years

ago we did. Now he becomes excausted after being few minutes active outside.

> > > > Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes.

> > > > I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to improve

after a year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have now gives me a

hint that it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see only candida.

> > > > I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked in his

body his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet, now he is silly

and angry, that's all difference. I am very much affraid that I will never get

my boy back.

> > > > Are there any parents who faced the same regression following Cutler

protocol? I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing vitamins causes

so much yeast that it looks like it will never be gone. Did anyone had such a

long and severe regress, and then, progress?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I gave some specific comments regarding supplements, most of which won't matter

for now because I agree that getting down to some basics regarding the gut is

the most important thing right now (however, something to keep in mind for

later--I would recommend reposting to the group before starting supplements at a

later date). I would reiterate though that slippery elm, given on an empty

stomach, can be very helpful for gut pain and can help relieve constipation too.

For diet, I would keep very much to a GAPS/SCD without nuts kind of thing for a

long while.

Anita

A

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We started Andy Cutler protocol two years ago. We introduced

> > supplementing protocol and candida grew till sky immediately. We stepped

> > back, increased antifungals, then continued protocol, and made these

> > back and forth steps several times since then. Because of candida, we've

> > faced a lot of regression, mainly behavioural, no progress in skills.

> > Our son stopped enjoying playground, scooter, pool. We didn't take him

> > to vocation although three years ago we did. Now he becomes excausted

> > after being few minutes active outside.

> > > > > > Is this all what we've reached during two years? Yes.

> > > > > > I keep asking people and they tell me that this is supposed to

> > improve after a year or two of chelation. But nothing from what we have

> > now gives me a hint that it will. I follow protocol carefully, but see

> > only candida.

> > > > > > I am worried that considering how much of yeast we've provocked

> > in his body his regression is forever. He used to be silly and sweet,

> > now he is silly and angry, that's all difference. I am very much affraid

> > that I will never get my boy back.

> > > > > > Are there any parents who faced the same regression following

> > Cutler protocol? I guess the main problem with it is that supplementing

> > vitamins causes so much yeast that it looks like it will never be gone.

> > Did anyone had such a long and severe regress, and then, progress?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > DISCLAIMER

> > No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice.

If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified

practitioner.

> >