Re: Can't (Re: graduated)

June 12, 2003

>

>I find it ironic that Voc Rehab will help me get the stereotypical " cripple

jobs " I *can't* handle (like data entry). But when I attempt to establish myself

in a field in which I have talent, that runs contrary to stereotype--like

cartooning and/or commercial art--I'm told I should " be realistic " and " accept

my limitations. "

>

This is the same kind of crap that I went through with Voc-Rehab

back in the early 90s. I tried to tell them that these jobs that they

recommended were the kind that would not work for me, and that i really

needed to get away from. I recomended the " TV Production " work that you

mentioned. I cited the fact that I had good experience with

photography, and electonics. I also mentioned that I had a couple of

classes at a commuinty college in video production. They immediately

shot down that idea, saying that the work was exactly the kind of NT

" competition " that I was trying to get away from. I als mentioned

cartooning, commercial art, ant photography, with the same results. I

have always been stubborn and mean, and I stuck to my guns. After a

couple of weeks, they threw me out, and sent me to Social Security.

June 12, 2003

>

> > I've even

> > seen articles by people in the disability rights movement who don't

> > believe " invisibly disabled " people should be allowed to take part in

> > the movement, because they supposedly don't face disability

> > oppression.

>

People with invisable disabilities DO face discrimination. I know

from personal experience. I put myself through four years of college

studying engineering. When I went to look for work afterwards, NO

company would hire me. Most never even bothered to respond back to me,

and whenI would contact them, they would " have no record " of my

application. The couple of interviews that I did get, I was told

immediately that i was " unacceptable " . This is in spite of the fact

that the work was one of my perseverations, and I knew it quite well.

June 12, 2003

I've had that said about my writing in the past, when I was brave enough (or

stupid enough) to attempt fiction. The author kept writing in red ink, " I don't

care about these people! " That sounds eerily similar to the comments you've

received. As far as my cartooning goes, I'm generally just told I'm not funny.

Ever dealt with art critics? They seem to be the masters of " NT crap. " When my

portraits were shown at a student art show back in college, I alternated between

bemused and incredulous as they prattled on about the " psychological content " of

my work. When one critic got through with her interpretation of one of my

paintings, I said to her, " Funny. I never meant to say those things when I

painted it... " she said, " We'll tell you what your paintings mean... " . She said

it with a smile on her face, as if she were trying to make a joke, but I think

she was dead serious. Talk about being full of oneself...

I am a very creative person, but I have had similar judgments that

I am not " creative " . I have learned that " creativity " is judged too

much by NT standards. For years, my creative work was put down with

statements like " does not mkae a statement " or " does not address the

human condition " . This is a lot of NT crap! They are not seeing what

they want to see, so therefore, the work is crap. F- them! Do what you

like, and be your own critic. You know what you want to see; judge

yourself on that.

June 12, 2003

>

> I am a very creative person, but I have had similar judgments that

> I am not " creative " . I have learned that " creativity " is judged too

> much by NT standards. For years, my creative work was put down with

> statements like " does not mkae a statement " or " does not address the

> human condition " . This is a lot of NT crap!

Yep, that's pretty much bullpoopy. Most music by Mozart doesn't make a

statement other than " this is good music " . So I guess he wasn't too creative?

And " the human condition " is a totally bogus phrase, because every human has

his/her own condition!

Doug

June 12, 2003

D wrote:

>When people call me an " inspiration " after finding out the truth about my

>body, though, they always mean that I have struggled to change my life from

>something comfortable and disability-friendly into something able-bodied-NT

>style. Nobody calls me an " inspiration " for being open about my problems,

>for seeking out ways to help others take pride in who they are... They only

>find me " inspirational " when I pretend to be normal -- because they can't

>fathom the idea of improvement being in any other direction except towards

>them.

This is a key point, I think. Well stated.

I wonder (and I mean that; I am not stating an opinion

here, just bringing up something I wonder about) whether

some of the divison there has been at times between

" physically " disabled and " mentally " disabled people in

some disability-rights groups has a basis in the points

makes in that paragraph. I have seen some

" physically " disabled people define accommodation as

" what we need to enable us to function just like you. "

Their sense of value seems to be based on how " normal "

they can make their lives appear (though I know many

of them pay a high cost in terms of effort and

exhaustion). Thus they have scant patience for those

needing other kinds of accommodations or those whose

accommodations are not aimed towards " normalizing. "

Jane

June 12, 2003

>

<< Ever dealt with art critics? They seem to be the masters of " NT crap. " When

my portraits were shown at a student art show back in college, I alternated

between bemused and incredulous as they prattled on about the " psychological

content " of my work. When one critic got through with her interpretation of one

of my paintings, I said to her, " Funny. I never meant to say those things when I

painted it... " she said, " We'll tell you what your paintings mean... " . She said

it with a smile on her face, as if she were trying to make a joke, but I think

she was dead serious. Talk about being full of oneself...>>

There was a science fiction story (I believe by Isaac Asimov; I could be wrong)

where Wm. Shakespeare was brought back to life in modern times and shown some of

the stuff that's been written about / interpreted into his plays. His reaction

was " What ha' God wrought!! " (in modern terms, " How-lee shit!! " ).

Music history is full of pieces that were trashed by critics at first, but later

became famous and well-loved. Like much of Beethoven, because nobody could

understand his music at the time and it violated previous conventions.

Doug

June 12, 2003

> > > I've even

> > > seen articles by people in the disability rights movement who don't

> > > believe " invisibly disabled " people should be allowed to take part in

> > > the movement, because they supposedly don't face disability

> People with invisable disabilities DO face discrimination.

I still think my friend's point -- that the invisible/visible thing has

more to do with attitudes than with an attribute of the disability --

has merit, but I do agree that people whose disabilities are perceived

by those around them as invisible face discrimination.

> I know

> from personal experience. I put myself through four years of college

> studying engineering. When I went to look for work afterwards, NO

> company would hire me. Most never even bothered to respond back to me,

> and whenI would contact them, they would " have no record " of my

> application. The couple of interviews that I did get, I was told

> immediately that i was " unacceptable " . This is in spite of the fact

> that the work was one of my perseverations, and I knew it quite well.

See, it *was* quite visible to them. They just didn't know what it was

(or didn't care), so they probably put it down to your " attitude " or

some crap like that.

I think the people who wrote those articles I talked about didn't know

what they were talking about.

--

" Each time, place, and culture makes its own rules for how to be a model

citizen. Being a loner usually means smashing all those rules, simply by

breathing. " -Anneli Rufus

June 12, 2003

> I've had that said about my writing in the past, when I was brave

> enough (or stupid enough) to attempt fiction. The author kept writing

> in red ink, " I don't care about these people! " That sounds eerily

> similar to the comments you've received. As far as my cartooning goes,

> I'm generally just told I'm not funny.

That sounds like an assignment we had to do in school once, to write a

limerick. It had to follow a certain form, and to be funny.

I wrote:

There once was a fish from the bay

Who always had something to say

He jumped out of the shop

But his lips wouldn't stop

So he kept on talking all day

Not great, obviously, but it fit the formula. I failed the assignment.

I asked why. He said it wasn't a limerick. I told him it followed the

form. He said, " Yes, but it has to be funny to be a limerick, and it's

not funny. " *I* found it funny, but that's not what mattered to him.

My brother encountered something similar in school. They had to write a

parody. My brother parodied Poe's " The Raven, " and wrote a hilarious

thing with the repeating line, " Quote the spider, 'shut the door!' "

He either flunked the assignment or came very close. Written across the

top in red ink was, " Ravens can talk. Spiders can't. "

> Ever dealt with art critics? They seem to be the masters of " NT crap. "

> When my portraits were shown at a student art show back in college, I

> alternated between bemused and incredulous as they prattled on about

> the " psychological content " of my work.

Someone in a psychology class I took said she worked at the campus art

gallery, and that it was fun to watch people go in there and stare at

paintings while babbling inanely and pretentiously about work that

wasn't intended to have that much fancy content.

> When one critic got through with her interpretation of one of my

> paintings, I said to her, " Funny. I never meant to say those things

> when I painted it... " she said, " We'll tell you what your paintings

> mean... " . She said it with a smile on her face, as if she were trying

> to make a joke, but I think she was dead serious. Talk about being

> full of oneself...

Figures.

--

The more people I meet, the more I like my cat.

June 12, 2003

I don't know--I rather like it. It seems funny to me...better than some Ogden

Nash stuff I've heard. Yet he's considered a laugh riot.

This is precisely why I think classes that involve any sort of art cannot--and

should not--be graded. You were penalized for something that's purely

subjective.

There once was a fish from the bay

Who always had something to say

He jumped out of the shop

But his lips wouldn't stop

So he kept on talking all day

June 12, 2003

>

>I have seen some

> " physically " disabled people define accommodation as

> " what we need to enable us to function just like you. "

>Their sense of value seems to be based on how " normal "

>they can make their lives appear (though I know many

>of them pay a high cost in terms of effort and

>exhaustion). Thus they have scant patience for those

>needing other kinds of accommodations or those whose

>accommodations are not aimed towards " normalizing. "

>Jane

>

I also have to wonder how much greed and selfishness play a part ih

this. We live in a very greedy and selfish culture where just about

everybody seems to be out for themselves. I say this because I am

wondering if the motivation behind some of these " disabled " groups is to

get special accomadations just for themselves. Accomadating other

disabilities would just take away resources from their cause.

June 12, 2003

>

>Ever dealt with art critics? They seem to be the masters of " NT crap. " When my

portraits were shown at a student art show back in college, I alternated between

bemused and incredulous as they prattled on about the " psychological content " of

my work. When one critic got through with her interpretation of one of my

paintings, I said to her, " Funny. I never meant to say those things when I

painted it... " she said, " We'll tell you what your paintings mean... " . She said

it with a smile on her face, as if she were trying to make a joke, but I think

she was dead serious. Talk about being full of oneself...

>

I have always been good at photography. I started when I was about

age 12. When I was a senior in Highschool, I took a photography class.

The teacher flunked me, not because of the quality of my work, but

because he did not like the things that I photographed. At the time, I

had talked my best friend into also taking the class. He got an 'A',

because the teacher liked his subjects. That started the eventual

breakup of our friendship. To this day, he refuses to even admit that i

even know what a camera is, even though i taught him everything that he

needed to know to get into the class, as well as sparking his interest

in the subject.

June 12, 2003

> I also have to wonder how much greed and selfishness play a part ih

> this. We live in a very greedy and selfish culture where just about

> everybody seems to be out for themselves. I say this because I am

> wondering if the motivation behind some of these " disabled " groups is to

> get special accomadations just for themselves. Accomadating other

> disabilities would just take away resources from their cause.

I don't think any access is more " special " than any other, and I don't

think it's greedy or selfish to want accessibility (in fact, that's

exactly what the able-bodied world quite often tells *anyone* who asks

for it). But there are definitely people who think that if *they* get

recognized as worthy of such things, it doesn't matter if anyone else

does or not (in fact, I'm not even sure they realize it once their own

needs are taken care of).

A similar phenomenon can be found among autistic people who try to prove

that their IQ is high and therefore they shouldn't be " treated like

retarded people " (when what they're really saying is they shouldn't be

treated in particular inhumane ways). I've, in fact, never seen a

grouping of people that was, as a whole, immune to this fallacy,

although I've seen many individuals within larger groups who work

against it.

--

" As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not

certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality. "

-Albert Einstein

June 12, 2003

wrote:

>He either flunked the assignment or came very close. Written across the

>top in red ink was, " Ravens can talk. Spiders can't. "

!!!! That teacher dserves to be considered for the

" Stupid Teachers Hall of Fame. "

Geez!

Incidentally, I bet almost as many nominatins for

the STHF would come from non-stupid teachers as

from the students of stupid teachers.

Jane

June 12, 2003

wrote:

>> Ever dealt with art critics? They seem to be the masters of " NT

>> crap. " When my portraits were shown at a student art show back in

>> college, I alternated between bemused and incredulous as they

>> prattled on about the " psychological content " of my work.

One of the general ed classes I had to take in college required me to go

to an art gallery and prattle on just about those kinds of things. I

don't see all of the fancy things that artsy people say is in there. I

see a picture. It is pretty or it is not. However, I had heard enough

art analysis in the lectures to know the kind of nonsense the instructor

wanted to read, and I did pretty well-- considering that my paper was

100% b.s.

> Someone in a psychology class I took said she worked at the campus

> art gallery, and that it was fun to watch people go in there and

> stare at paintings while babbling inanely and pretentiously about

> work that wasn't intended to have that much fancy content.

That reminds me of one episode of " Brown. " The painter guy,

Elvin or Eldin or something, had just opened his first art exhibit, and

for whatever reason, he had not gotten there in time to put up his

paintings. The critics got there and started analyzing the empty wall,

saying that it was a statement about the emptiness of life. Then one

decided that the light switch was the art, and said that it was

brilliant, and started prattling (such a perfect word for it) about

that. The artist arrived and was livid that they thought that his art

was there when it was not. Shades of " The Emperor's New Clothes. "

June 12, 2003

Thank you, .

ly, this thread is starting to veer into bashing of the physically

disabled, and I'm beginning to take it personally.

I don't want accommodation merely to *appear* normal--I want it so I can have a

normal life. Big difference there. Without certain accommodations, such as

ramps, automatic doors, wide corridors in homes and shops, and lifts on buses, I

could not function. Literally. If wanting to merely go to the store without

encountering a dozen different obstacles on the way is " selfish " , then I'm the

most selfish person on earth. What's more, I won't apologize for it.

I have never felt that people with disabilities less visible than mine deserved

accommodation any less than I. Please don't assume we *all* have an " I've got

mine, so screw you! " attitude.

And as for not wanting to be treated like one is retarded, who *would* want

that? (I define that as being patronized to and not taken seriously--being

treated as a child all one's life).