Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 > > >I find it ironic that Voc Rehab will help me get the stereotypical " cripple jobs " I *can't* handle (like data entry). But when I attempt to establish myself in a field in which I have talent, that runs contrary to stereotype--like cartooning and/or commercial art--I'm told I should " be realistic " and " accept my limitations. " > > This is the same kind of crap that I went through with Voc-Rehab back in the early 90s. I tried to tell them that these jobs that they recommended were the kind that would not work for me, and that i really needed to get away from. I recomended the " TV Production " work that you mentioned. I cited the fact that I had good experience with photography, and electonics. I also mentioned that I had a couple of classes at a commuinty college in video production. They immediately shot down that idea, saying that the work was exactly the kind of NT " competition " that I was trying to get away from. I als mentioned cartooning, commercial art, ant photography, with the same results. I have always been stubborn and mean, and I stuck to my guns. After a couple of weeks, they threw me out, and sent me to Social Security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 > > > > I've even > > seen articles by people in the disability rights movement who don't > > believe " invisibly disabled " people should be allowed to take part in > > the movement, because they supposedly don't face disability > > oppression. > > People with invisable disabilities DO face discrimination. I know from personal experience. I put myself through four years of college studying engineering. When I went to look for work afterwards, NO company would hire me. Most never even bothered to respond back to me, and whenI would contact them, they would " have no record " of my application. The couple of interviews that I did get, I was told immediately that i was " unacceptable " . This is in spite of the fact that the work was one of my perseverations, and I knew it quite well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 I've had that said about my writing in the past, when I was brave enough (or stupid enough) to attempt fiction. The author kept writing in red ink, " I don't care about these people! " That sounds eerily similar to the comments you've received. As far as my cartooning goes, I'm generally just told I'm not funny. Ever dealt with art critics? They seem to be the masters of " NT crap. " When my portraits were shown at a student art show back in college, I alternated between bemused and incredulous as they prattled on about the " psychological content " of my work. When one critic got through with her interpretation of one of my paintings, I said to her, " Funny. I never meant to say those things when I painted it... " she said, " We'll tell you what your paintings mean... " . She said it with a smile on her face, as if she were trying to make a joke, but I think she was dead serious. Talk about being full of oneself... I am a very creative person, but I have had similar judgments that I am not " creative " . I have learned that " creativity " is judged too much by NT standards. For years, my creative work was put down with statements like " does not mkae a statement " or " does not address the human condition " . This is a lot of NT crap! They are not seeing what they want to see, so therefore, the work is crap. F- them! Do what you like, and be your own critic. You know what you want to see; judge yourself on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 > > I am a very creative person, but I have had similar judgments that > I am not " creative " . I have learned that " creativity " is judged too > much by NT standards. For years, my creative work was put down with > statements like " does not mkae a statement " or " does not address the > human condition " . This is a lot of NT crap! Yep, that's pretty much bullpoopy. Most music by Mozart doesn't make a statement other than " this is good music " . So I guess he wasn't too creative? And " the human condition " is a totally bogus phrase, because every human has his/her own condition! Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 D wrote: >When people call me an " inspiration " after finding out the truth about my >body, though, they always mean that I have struggled to change my life from >something comfortable and disability-friendly into something able-bodied-NT >style. Nobody calls me an " inspiration " for being open about my problems, >for seeking out ways to help others take pride in who they are... They only >find me " inspirational " when I pretend to be normal -- because they can't >fathom the idea of improvement being in any other direction except towards >them. This is a key point, I think. Well stated. I wonder (and I mean that; I am not stating an opinion here, just bringing up something I wonder about) whether some of the divison there has been at times between " physically " disabled and " mentally " disabled people in some disability-rights groups has a basis in the points makes in that paragraph. I have seen some " physically " disabled people define accommodation as " what we need to enable us to function just like you. " Their sense of value seems to be based on how " normal " they can make their lives appear (though I know many of them pay a high cost in terms of effort and exhaustion). Thus they have scant patience for those needing other kinds of accommodations or those whose accommodations are not aimed towards " normalizing. " Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 > << Ever dealt with art critics? They seem to be the masters of " NT crap. " When my portraits were shown at a student art show back in college, I alternated between bemused and incredulous as they prattled on about the " psychological content " of my work. When one critic got through with her interpretation of one of my paintings, I said to her, " Funny. I never meant to say those things when I painted it... " she said, " We'll tell you what your paintings mean... " . She said it with a smile on her face, as if she were trying to make a joke, but I think she was dead serious. Talk about being full of oneself...>> There was a science fiction story (I believe by Isaac Asimov; I could be wrong) where Wm. Shakespeare was brought back to life in modern times and shown some of the stuff that's been written about / interpreted into his plays. His reaction was " What ha' God wrought!! " (in modern terms, " How-lee shit!! " ). Music history is full of pieces that were trashed by critics at first, but later became famous and well-loved. Like much of Beethoven, because nobody could understand his music at the time and it violated previous conventions. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 > > > I've even > > > seen articles by people in the disability rights movement who don't > > > believe " invisibly disabled " people should be allowed to take part in > > > the movement, because they supposedly don't face disability > People with invisable disabilities DO face discrimination. I still think my friend's point -- that the invisible/visible thing has more to do with attitudes than with an attribute of the disability -- has merit, but I do agree that people whose disabilities are perceived by those around them as invisible face discrimination. > I know > from personal experience. I put myself through four years of college > studying engineering. When I went to look for work afterwards, NO > company would hire me. Most never even bothered to respond back to me, > and whenI would contact them, they would " have no record " of my > application. The couple of interviews that I did get, I was told > immediately that i was " unacceptable " . This is in spite of the fact > that the work was one of my perseverations, and I knew it quite well. See, it *was* quite visible to them. They just didn't know what it was (or didn't care), so they probably put it down to your " attitude " or some crap like that. I think the people who wrote those articles I talked about didn't know what they were talking about. -- " Each time, place, and culture makes its own rules for how to be a model citizen. Being a loner usually means smashing all those rules, simply by breathing. " -Anneli Rufus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 > I've had that said about my writing in the past, when I was brave > enough (or stupid enough) to attempt fiction. The author kept writing > in red ink, " I don't care about these people! " That sounds eerily > similar to the comments you've received. As far as my cartooning goes, > I'm generally just told I'm not funny. That sounds like an assignment we had to do in school once, to write a limerick. It had to follow a certain form, and to be funny. I wrote: There once was a fish from the bay Who always had something to say He jumped out of the shop But his lips wouldn't stop So he kept on talking all day Not great, obviously, but it fit the formula. I failed the assignment. I asked why. He said it wasn't a limerick. I told him it followed the form. He said, " Yes, but it has to be funny to be a limerick, and it's not funny. " *I* found it funny, but that's not what mattered to him. My brother encountered something similar in school. They had to write a parody. My brother parodied Poe's " The Raven, " and wrote a hilarious thing with the repeating line, " Quote the spider, 'shut the door!' " He either flunked the assignment or came very close. Written across the top in red ink was, " Ravens can talk. Spiders can't. " > Ever dealt with art critics? They seem to be the masters of " NT crap. " > When my portraits were shown at a student art show back in college, I > alternated between bemused and incredulous as they prattled on about > the " psychological content " of my work. Someone in a psychology class I took said she worked at the campus art gallery, and that it was fun to watch people go in there and stare at paintings while babbling inanely and pretentiously about work that wasn't intended to have that much fancy content. > When one critic got through with her interpretation of one of my > paintings, I said to her, " Funny. I never meant to say those things > when I painted it... " she said, " We'll tell you what your paintings > mean... " . She said it with a smile on her face, as if she were trying > to make a joke, but I think she was dead serious. Talk about being > full of oneself... Figures. -- The more people I meet, the more I like my cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 I don't know--I rather like it. It seems funny to me...better than some Ogden Nash stuff I've heard. Yet he's considered a laugh riot. This is precisely why I think classes that involve any sort of art cannot--and should not--be graded. You were penalized for something that's purely subjective. There once was a fish from the bay Who always had something to say He jumped out of the shop But his lips wouldn't stop So he kept on talking all day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 > > >I have seen some > " physically " disabled people define accommodation as > " what we need to enable us to function just like you. " >Their sense of value seems to be based on how " normal " >they can make their lives appear (though I know many >of them pay a high cost in terms of effort and >exhaustion). Thus they have scant patience for those >needing other kinds of accommodations or those whose >accommodations are not aimed towards " normalizing. " >Jane > > I also have to wonder how much greed and selfishness play a part ih this. We live in a very greedy and selfish culture where just about everybody seems to be out for themselves. I say this because I am wondering if the motivation behind some of these " disabled " groups is to get special accomadations just for themselves. Accomadating other disabilities would just take away resources from their cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 > > >Ever dealt with art critics? They seem to be the masters of " NT crap. " When my portraits were shown at a student art show back in college, I alternated between bemused and incredulous as they prattled on about the " psychological content " of my work. When one critic got through with her interpretation of one of my paintings, I said to her, " Funny. I never meant to say those things when I painted it... " she said, " We'll tell you what your paintings mean... " . She said it with a smile on her face, as if she were trying to make a joke, but I think she was dead serious. Talk about being full of oneself... > > I have always been good at photography. I started when I was about age 12. When I was a senior in Highschool, I took a photography class. The teacher flunked me, not because of the quality of my work, but because he did not like the things that I photographed. At the time, I had talked my best friend into also taking the class. He got an 'A', because the teacher liked his subjects. That started the eventual breakup of our friendship. To this day, he refuses to even admit that i even know what a camera is, even though i taught him everything that he needed to know to get into the class, as well as sparking his interest in the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 > I also have to wonder how much greed and selfishness play a part ih > this. We live in a very greedy and selfish culture where just about > everybody seems to be out for themselves. I say this because I am > wondering if the motivation behind some of these " disabled " groups is to > get special accomadations just for themselves. Accomadating other > disabilities would just take away resources from their cause. I don't think any access is more " special " than any other, and I don't think it's greedy or selfish to want accessibility (in fact, that's exactly what the able-bodied world quite often tells *anyone* who asks for it). But there are definitely people who think that if *they* get recognized as worthy of such things, it doesn't matter if anyone else does or not (in fact, I'm not even sure they realize it once their own needs are taken care of). A similar phenomenon can be found among autistic people who try to prove that their IQ is high and therefore they shouldn't be " treated like retarded people " (when what they're really saying is they shouldn't be treated in particular inhumane ways). I've, in fact, never seen a grouping of people that was, as a whole, immune to this fallacy, although I've seen many individuals within larger groups who work against it. -- " As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality. " -Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 wrote: >He either flunked the assignment or came very close. Written across the >top in red ink was, " Ravens can talk. Spiders can't. " !!!! That teacher dserves to be considered for the " Stupid Teachers Hall of Fame. " Geez! Incidentally, I bet almost as many nominatins for the STHF would come from non-stupid teachers as from the students of stupid teachers. Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 wrote: >> Ever dealt with art critics? They seem to be the masters of " NT >> crap. " When my portraits were shown at a student art show back in >> college, I alternated between bemused and incredulous as they >> prattled on about the " psychological content " of my work. One of the general ed classes I had to take in college required me to go to an art gallery and prattle on just about those kinds of things. I don't see all of the fancy things that artsy people say is in there. I see a picture. It is pretty or it is not. However, I had heard enough art analysis in the lectures to know the kind of nonsense the instructor wanted to read, and I did pretty well-- considering that my paper was 100% b.s. > Someone in a psychology class I took said she worked at the campus > art gallery, and that it was fun to watch people go in there and > stare at paintings while babbling inanely and pretentiously about > work that wasn't intended to have that much fancy content. That reminds me of one episode of " Brown. " The painter guy, Elvin or Eldin or something, had just opened his first art exhibit, and for whatever reason, he had not gotten there in time to put up his paintings. The critics got there and started analyzing the empty wall, saying that it was a statement about the emptiness of life. Then one decided that the light switch was the art, and said that it was brilliant, and started prattling (such a perfect word for it) about that. The artist arrived and was livid that they thought that his art was there when it was not. Shades of " The Emperor's New Clothes. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 Thank you, . ly, this thread is starting to veer into bashing of the physically disabled, and I'm beginning to take it personally. I don't want accommodation merely to *appear* normal--I want it so I can have a normal life. Big difference there. Without certain accommodations, such as ramps, automatic doors, wide corridors in homes and shops, and lifts on buses, I could not function. Literally. If wanting to merely go to the store without encountering a dozen different obstacles on the way is " selfish " , then I'm the most selfish person on earth. What's more, I won't apologize for it. I have never felt that people with disabilities less visible than mine deserved accommodation any less than I. Please don't assume we *all* have an " I've got mine, so screw you! " attitude. And as for not wanting to be treated like one is retarded, who *would* want that? (I define that as being patronized to and not taken seriously--being treated as a child all one's life). Re: Can't (Re: graduated) > I also have to wonder how much greed and selfishness play a part ih > this. We live in a very greedy and selfish culture where just about > everybody seems to be out for themselves. I say this because I am > wondering if the motivation behind some of these " disabled " groups is to > get special accomadations just for themselves. Accomadating other > disabilities would just take away resources from their cause. I don't think any access is more " special " than any other, and I don't think it's greedy or selfish to want accessibility (in fact, that's exactly what the able-bodied world quite often tells *anyone* who asks for it). But there are definitely people who think that if *they* get recognized as worthy of such things, it doesn't matter if anyone else does or not (in fact, I'm not even sure they realize it once their own needs are taken care of). A similar phenomenon can be found among autistic people who try to prove that their IQ is high and therefore they shouldn't be " treated like retarded people " (when what they're really saying is they shouldn't be treated in particular inhumane ways). I've, in fact, never seen a grouping of people that was, as a whole, immune to this fallacy, although I've seen many individuals within larger groups who work against it. -- " As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality. " -Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 I majored in philosophy, and I can state quite categorically that most of these guys are full of it. And themselves. Here's a spoof of that kind of thinking. This came out in a socialist democratic quarterly called " Dissent " back in Summer 1990. It still tickles me when I read it (especially the last footnote). http://danny.oz.au/danny/humour/Gilligan At 03:51 PM 6/12/2003, you wrote: > > wrote: > > > > >> Ever dealt with art critics? They seem to be the masters of " NT > > >> crap. " When my portraits were shown at a student art show back in > > >> college, I alternated between bemused and incredulous as they > > >> prattled on about the " psychological content " of my work. > >and responded: > >One of the general ed classes I had to take in college required me to go > >to an art gallery and prattle on just about those kinds of things. I > >don't see all of the fancy things that artsy people say is in there. I > >see a picture. It is pretty or it is not. However, I had heard enough > >art analysis in the lectures to know the kind of nonsense the instructor > >wanted to read, and I did pretty well-- considering that my paper was > >100% b.s. > >One of the last classes I took for my BA (so that means >it would have been in 1994, I guess) was taught by someone >who was into all the " gender studies " jargon. I had to >write a final paper for that class in which I compared >several of the books in the syllabus. At the end, I put >a P.S. stating how alienating I found it to apply such >lanaguage to the books. The professor, fortunately, did >not count the P.S. against me. She even remarked on how >well I used the language I disliked so strongly. > >Jane > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 At 04:01 AM 6/12/03 -0700, wrote: >Second, they don't really want to help and what they call " inspiration " >is empty and hollow. It *looks* like praise, but it's really the >opposite. That's why I kept putting it in quotes. I'm surprised that people here didn't understand what I meant considering how often we've discussed these topics. Sparrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 At 01:40 AM 6/12/03 -0500, Newstead wrote: >When I was a client of Voc Rehab in the eighties, they paid for my first >two years of college. When I switched my major from something I couldn't >handle (TV Production) to something I could (Spanish and Fine Arts) the >funding went bye-bye and I had to get a Pell. You got more than I got from voc rehab. They refused to help me at all. They gave me an IQ test, a MMPI and a manual dexterity test, then told me that I was " intelligent and complex " and that I should " go get a couple of years of therapy and come back to us. " They refused to listen to me and gave me the brush-off. The problem is, the way AS test on the MMPI, I will *NEVER* have an acceptable MMPI score and thus will *NEVER* fall into voc rehab's acceptable category. Sparrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 At 09:35 AM 6/12/03 -0500, Logan wrote: >You said that you had problems before with prople who were >wearing tye-dye. What kind of problems? About thirty of them took over our house once. They came to the house (which was divided into four apartments but everyone in the house knew everyone else and we had all moved to it in a group) and just started sleeping everywhere - on the floor, on the couch, in tents in the back yard, even on the roof. Whenever anyone asked someone to leave, they said that someone else had invited them. It took nearly a month to manage to get all the people out. We finally came up with a strategy of locking all the doors so they couldn't get in but it took a long time to get to a point where they were al outside at the same time. When we finally got rid of them, they had eaten all our food, broken several things, busted a large hole in the wall between the living room and the hall (so large you could have handed a collie through it) and clogged up the toilet by dumping a pan of cat litter in it and then continuing to use the clogged toilet to shit in. Oh yes, and we had to delouse the house. Which wasn't the first nor last time that I've contracted lice from being around hippies. I have been harassed and verbally attacked by hippies for being a gun owner. This seems a particularly foolish business - harassing someone who has a deadly weapon - but nonetheless, it has occured on more than one occasion. One instance was just funny, though. A hippie neighbor who had harassed us frequently called the police on us, telling them that we had illegal weapons. We invited the officers in and showed them our collection. The police were verypleased and complained that they wanted several of the firearms we own but their wives wouldn't let them have them (because of home budgetting issues.) The police asked why they had been called and we mentioned that we had been being harassed by our neighbors for being firearms owners (we are responsible owners who never point our guns at people or threaten them with them.) We noticed that the police were knocking on our neighbor's door after they left our apartment. We could smell pot when the neighbors finally opened the door. The neighbors never called the police with lies about us again. I used to go to smaller Rainbow Gatherings and Grateful Dead shows when I was in my twenties. I used to be one of those tie-dyed people. I was mistreated by people who sat there to my face telling me that everyone who was there was family. Allegedly I was family but I was verbally harassed any time I dressed in black. I was verbally harassed for dying my hair black and for dying my hair orange. I was abducted and raped by a tie-dyed Rainbow Family member and then threatened when I dared to speak of the event. I was spat on (literally!), verbally harrassed and had my tent vandalized because I looked into a creek and saw some crawdads and said that my grandfather used to cook them and they tasted good. I was even harassed and insulted once for daring to mention that I had an apartment. I could go on and on but I think I'll stop now. I haven't even touched political issues but it's probably better i I just don't. Sparrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 At 09:08 AM 6/12/03 -0700, wrote: > " Each time, place, and culture makes its own rules for how to be a model >citizen. Being a loner usually means smashing all those rules, simply by >breathing. " -Anneli Rufus Something interesting and related to this quote. I've been working on a translation of a Dutch childfree site into Spanish and I came across something interesting. I realized I didn't know the word for " lonely " so I started combing through dictionaries. Every one kept saying the same thing but it just didn't seem right so I'd go and look at another dictionary and there it was again. In Spanish, the word for " lonely " is the same as the word for " alone. " I don't believe it's because the culture has no conception of the idea of being lonely. It's far more likely that the culture has no conception of a person who would *choose* to be alone. Sparrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 At the end, I put > a P.S. stating how alienating I found it to apply such > lanaguage to the books. The professor, fortunately, did > not count the P.S. against me. She even remarked on how > well I used the language I disliked so strongly. Good for you for expressing your opinion. I did that once on a course evaluation for one of those " soft " social science courses I had to take for my B.A. I wrote that I found the course completely useless and had no idea what its purpose was supposed to be. Iris Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin The man gave a shrug which indicated that, although the world did indeed have many problems, this was one of them that was not his. -- (Terry Pratchett, Soul Music) Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/ Toastmasters website: http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 At 10:58 AM 6/12/03 -0500, Doug O'Neal wrote: >Music history is full of pieces that were trashed by critics at >first, but later became famous and well-loved. Like much of >Beethoven, because nobody could understand his music at the time >and it violated previous conventions. And musicians who trashed their own music. Beethoven originally threw " Fur Elise " away, saying that it was " a mere bagatelle. " When he conducted his Ninth Symphony (or pretended to conduct since he was totally deaf at the time. The orchestra followed the bow of the lead violinist) he was so depressed at the end because he thought that it was a miserable piece of work that he just hung his head. Someone had to come up and turn his head so that he could see the audience wildly applauding. Sparrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 At 11:42 AM 6/12/03 -0500, Logan wrote: > I also have to wonder how much greed and selfishness play a part ih >this. We live in a very greedy and selfish culture where just about >everybody seems to be out for themselves. I say this because I am >wondering if the motivation behind some of these " disabled " groups is to >get special accomadations just for themselves. Accomadating other >disabilities would just take away resources from their cause. I sometimes wonder similar things. I was in the middle of a HUGE arguement/debate on a general disabilities list that centered around whether able-bodied people should be allowed to use the handicapped stalls in restrooms. Nearly half the physically disabled people said that able-bodied people should *never* use those stalls, even when there was no disabled person in the bathroom (because one might come in), even when that stall was empty but all the other stalls were occupied. When I mentioned that I am apparently able-bodied (I have cervical spondylosis but it is a variable condition and often I don't appear disabled even when I'm racked with pain and barely getting around) but have serious bladder issues, I was told that I should just stay home then. When I suggested that people in wheelchairs who have serious bladder issues should just stay home too, I was told that I was being insensitive to the needs of the disabled. Sparrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 At 12:43 PM 6/12/03 -0500, Newstead wrote: > I have never felt that people with disabilities less visible >than mine deserved accommodation any less than I. Please don't >assume we *all* have an " I've got mine, so screw you! " attitude. I don't assume that. When I was spending time on general disability lists, I only saw that kind of attitude in about half the people there (and an online list is a self-selected demographic, not a realistic one.) As for you, individually, I have never felt that you are selfish or greedy or only out for yourself. >And as for not wanting to be treated like one is retarded, who *would* >want that? (I define that as being patronized to and not taken >seriously--being treated as a child all one's life). The only people I've ever known who didn't seem to mind being treated as if they were retarded were my relatives who *are* retarded. And even that doesn't go across the board. My cousin Elaine is high-functioning retarded and while she's not eloquent enough to express *why* she's frustrated, I've seen her be frustrated because she wasn't being allowed to do something that she was possibly capable of doing but definitely *wanted* to do. Sparrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 > wrote: > > >> Ever dealt with art critics? They seem to be the masters of " NT > >> crap. " When my portraits were shown at a student art show back in > >> college, I alternated between bemused and incredulous as they > >> prattled on about the " psychological content " of my work. and responded: >One of the general ed classes I had to take in college required me to go >to an art gallery and prattle on just about those kinds of things. I >don't see all of the fancy things that artsy people say is in there. I >see a picture. It is pretty or it is not. However, I had heard enough >art analysis in the lectures to know the kind of nonsense the instructor >wanted to read, and I did pretty well-- considering that my paper was >100% b.s. One of the last classes I took for my BA (so that means it would have been in 1994, I guess) was taught by someone who was into all the " gender studies " jargon. I had to write a final paper for that class in which I compared several of the books in the syllabus. At the end, I put a P.S. stating how alienating I found it to apply such lanaguage to the books. The professor, fortunately, did not count the P.S. against me. She even remarked on how well I used the language I disliked so strongly. Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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