Re: Dr Cheney's keynote presentation at the 2007 IACFS Conference

[Guest guest]

Kate

That's exactly right some people benefit some don't. Remember your

individual needs need to be targeted with every treatment. I believe

a small amount of salt can possably stimulate damage to the body so

can sort of understand the medical community view point.BUT!! when

you use larger amounts the salt actually reduces or stops the slime

causing bacteria from creating slime..Wityh everything you do your

trying to get the ingredient to where it's most needed this is the

hardest thing to do without any scientific aid.

On a totally different angle you may shine some light on your sons

lyme or whatever you want to call it by doing a cholesterol test on

him next time the oppurtunity arises. You'd be able to scream from

the rafters at your doctors if they tried to pull any shit on you if

your young one has a rediculous reading.Also this testing is

generally at the 20 dollar end of the scale not the rediculous 2000

that everyone is trying to get us to spend. I also think for under

100 you may learn if he's a staph areus carrier and has a pseudonomas

problem.tony

> > Remember the

> > most succesfull protocol is blasi salts which are loaded with

> > potassium and even then the levels are possably nowhere near

enough

> > to cater for a long term inflammed individual...

> > tony

> >

> Some individuals notice improvement from taking these salts and

> others don't notice any difference at all. Just like some people

> benefit from nystatin and others don't at all. Etcetera etcetera.

> We're not all the same.

>

> - Kate

>

[Guest guest]

The most important thing I've ever read on forums is people's

response to drugs. An egs. Dave from england took some staphylex and

was in remission for half a year. This is an often repeated story on

many forums. Many others claim 80 to 95% imporvrment in there

symptoms- from not being able to walk to the letter box to almost

full functioning. I don't know if this is telling you a story. TO ME

IT READS THAT IF PEOPLE DID A LITTLE SCIENCE AND PUSHED THE BACTERIA

INTO OBLIVION THEN THE RESULTS WOULD LOOK EVEN BETTER.Just someything

you may want to learn or share with your yasko friends. Treatments on

antiobiotics look very different than what you may have associated

with. People do IV's, they do intramuscular, they do pills.Then

there's the choice of 100 different antibiotics created to attack

many problems. Often they use triple antibiotic combo's and drain

area's of infection to get the most desirable outcome.With

tuberculosis treatment can go on for 2 years and all you have is a

lung tissue infection that needs triple combo's to get thru the

granulated area's housing tubercule bacillus.Imagine if your spine

pelvis and a few other body parts housed a large infection you'd need

to go the tuberculosis approch and then some??

> some fuckwit telling us that glutathione depletion is the BUZZ

diagnosis.

>

>

> ***I know you ain't talkin' about me...right?...BOY! I'd gladly kick

> your buaweedoo to the otherside of the Milky Way if so Come'on,

> you still don't believe all this overraught nonsense you spew about

> antibiotics potential for curing CFS and lyme, do you?

>

>

>

> ***That jack rabbit will still never win the race and you're grasp

of

> the glutathione-mythylation blocks pathogenic hypothesis for CFS is

> blunderous you know. Just because your friend, Dr Cheney, lost

track

> of the front side of this overall lead ten years back after he had

it

> in the bag doesn't make it wrong.

>

>

>

> ***He had the Nobel Prize locked up, but we still have hope for you,

> Tony....You're our only hope!

>

>

> ***

>

[Guest guest]

On Jan 15, 2007, at 4:51 PM, pjeanneus wrote:

> Kate, you could look at the expense as your contribution to research.

> On that basis I would contribute, but maybe not to Yasko.

> a Carnes

>

> > > Incidentally, we've spent about $2K on Yasko tests and

> supplements,

I have contributed way over $2k to antibiotics manufacturers and

dealers, but I don't think that's helping anybody understand very much.

- Kate

[Guest guest]

On Jan 15, 2007, at 4:23 PM, Barb Peck wrote:

> Of course Steroids can be used anytime as suppressives- not without

> cost to the body though.. there are other drugs that can supress the

> immune system not so far upstream.... matter of fact alot of abx are

> suppressive..

>

My son's immunologist told me that this is not generally true, but

can happen in exceptional cases. So do you have some studies to the

contrary that I should show him?

- Kate

[Guest guest]

I hear doctors say this all the time (as in minocycline and acne) and have read numerous studies also that abx are immunosuppressive. I usually object because we're often told that's the reason we get relief from them, not because they're actually killing bacteria. pennyKate <KateDunlay@...> wrote: On Jan 15, 2007, at 4:23 PM, Barb Peck wrote:> Of course Steroids can be used anytime as suppressives- not without> cost to the body though..

there are other drugs that can supress the> immune system not so far upstream.... matter of fact alot of abx are> suppressive..>My son's immunologist told me that this is not generally true, but can happen in exceptional cases. So do you have some studies to the contrary that I should show him?- Kate

[Guest guest]

Hi, Bob.

<bob@...> wrote:

I appreciate

> what Yasko and Rich are doing, but I cannot share your enthusiasm at

> this point that they have " nailed " anything other than a n arguably new

> piece of the puzzle which may or may not be something more than an

> interesting, largely unactionable factoid.

***I can understand how you see it this way, especially given the

bedridden situation with your wife where nothing seems to be working

and perhaps nothing will, who knows? I don't know what I would ever

do if it got that bad, it's a fear I think many PWCs who are able to

get up and at least sit in a chair have, that it could chronically get

to that point(have you looked into your health insurance possibly

getting her to a hospital that specializes in treating mitochondrial

diseases as they may with a little bit of persuation take her case and

possibly help with experimental protocols at their expense, you never

know?).

***That said, my point about Rich is not a trivial one and I do think

he has nailed CFS pathogenesis. It will help a lot people over time

that he has done this, with immediate benefits coming to some though

not likely all in the near future.

***I didn't say and can't make " the nailed it " declaration about the

other side of the equation, treatments and treatment providers like

Yasko included. The jury is far from out there and and I am sensitive

to the fact that the treatment side is what most interests people on

lists like this, so I didn't expect unbashed enthusiasm in hearing it

through.

I don't yet see anyone with

> all the pieces, much less all of them assembled. We can't afford to

> spin our wheels for months or years in blind trust that if we see it

> through no matter what happens, it will be alright because Amy, or

Fred,

> or Ted say it will. Been there, done that, have the T-shirt and the

> lost / wasted years to prove it.

***I understand and don't endorse blind trust to anyone. Trusting

oneself first and lastly, after all available views have been

considered completely, is the way to go IMO, PWC or not.

>

> This is not a disease for people who just want to be told what to do,

> that's for certain.

***Agreed.

>

> Best,

>

> --Bob

***

[Guest guest]

Hi, Tony.

<dumbaussie2000@...> wrote:

>

>

> I'm glad that you said you picked up some stuff from KEN because as

> you can observe on his experimental site he is the gold standard of

> improvement and a no-nonsense approach to what is

> needed.Unfortunately he is basically of the school that addressed the

> infection and the blood thickening/coagulation that came with it.

> Your going to cut the drugs aspirins/ibuprofen and antibiotics and

> going to blow everything out of the water with what you eat and throw

> in as the suplemental stuff. Your also one of the very blessed that

> doesn't have a sinus problem- just half your heads rotten and you

> haven't had this diagnosed yet(my opinion).

***I have no sinus problem. Never have. Have a great ENT, who you

would love, that at first appointment will test, give prescriptions of

any abx needed for as long as needed and schedule surgery fast if

things linger.

***No psychobabble, just aggressive attack. I did have infectious

bony islands in my scull like diabetics get, but RenewPro got rid of

them all I sense and hashismoto's completely and diabetes

insipidus/low blood volume completely and diastolic heart dysfunction

I sense is gone too.

***BH4 from Payne gets my low dopamine up and combo

vinpocetine, magnesium citrate, pycogenol, GABA, low dose zinc along

with limiting milk calcium, all, lower calcium influx

inflammation/glutamate excitotoxic effect(stinging in brain). Some

infections and metal toxins have come out from this too, it's all

intertwined.

I wish you well, but

> being in the complete dark about your real complaints over the last

> decade or so makes you a prime candidate to read yasko and believe in

> Rich's theories and offcourse prove to us all we can fix things with

> our immune systems.

***Your mistaken. My progress, made without abx, is strong proof.

I'm not the only one.

> I also think eriks explanation about contracting the herpes virus

> when at your peak of excitement tells us all alot about how good a

> job our immune system can do.

> And please don't touch antibiotics, nor make an honest attempt at

> getting some real answers, or to observe some real issues inside your

> damaged body. Remember you've been taught everything is normal and

> nothing is OBVIOUSLY WRONG by everyone you've seen.

***Thanks for listening, Tony. I know you got my points, you can't

resist them, my charm too. The jig is up for all that doesn't fit the

facts in CFS and each different case.

> tony

***

[Guest guest]

Hi, a.

<pj7@...> wrote:

>

I am not very sick after 11 years of

> antibiotics and would rather be cooking dinner today and writing my

> next book than writing or reading here. I think that is a good sign

> that antibiotics may have some good effects.)

***I agree. I also think this is the crux of the problem you're

having with me, you don't feel bad enough and you're over the hump

that some PWCs get over, like Dr Cheney has observed happens, from the

treatment path you chose, though you folks are not totally

well(Congrats!).

***In most, abx alone don't work or at best have only a minor benefit

as you know. And what I've been endorsing is Rich's hypothesis for CFS

pathogenesis(which predicts abx may work in some), not Yasko, for

which I'm not doing and don't claim its omnipotence, just said it

seems to fit well with Rich's theory and looks interesting(especially

the RNA treatments that are new to this world).

***So if this is unconvincing, I'm not surprised. I haven't assigned

myself this task, never implied I would(that's a lot of work you're

asking other folks to do for free, if you become serious about it,

given the individuality of each case and the different things each

case would be found to need within it).

***

[Guest guest]

I've been down that road and then some, Tony. You have no idea.

Abx failed totally, like they continue to do in most PWCs or end-stage

lyme. The terrian or both terrain and prescription antimicrobials are

going to be the way for these folk, but especially terrain. You can

knock Yasko, I don't care as I don't know enough yet about her to know

if she is the missing CFS treatment messiah(co-messiah with you, my

bad), but you can't deny what I've accomplished without abx, the jig

is up with your mistakes in facts. You've been found out

<dumbaussie2000@...> wrote:

>

>

> The most important thing I've ever read on forums is people's

> response to drugs. An egs. Dave from england took some staphylex and

> was in remission for half a year. This is an often repeated story on

> many forums. Many others claim 80 to 95% imporvrment in there

> symptoms- from not being able to walk to the letter box to almost

> full functioning. I don't know if this is telling you a story. TO ME

> IT READS THAT IF PEOPLE DID A LITTLE SCIENCE AND PUSHED THE BACTERIA

> INTO OBLIVION THEN THE RESULTS WOULD LOOK EVEN BETTER.Just someything

> you may want to learn or share with your yasko friends. Treatments on

> antiobiotics look very different than what you may have associated

> with. People do IV's, they do intramuscular, they do pills.Then

> there's the choice of 100 different antibiotics created to attack

> many problems. Often they use triple antibiotic combo's and drain

> area's of infection to get the most desirable outcome.With

> tuberculosis treatment can go on for 2 years and all you have is a

> lung tissue infection that needs triple combo's to get thru the

> granulated area's housing tubercule bacillus.Imagine if your spine

> pelvis and a few other body parts housed a large infection you'd need

> to go the tuberculosis approch and then some??

>

[Guest guest]

While you think your cutting edge. Me and my buddies (Penny can

vouch) run the gauntlet of cutting edge testing and full

understanding of these conditions. We hear all the horror stories of

people's faces pulled off there skull to clean up massive infections.

We get the biopsy stories from cancerous thyroids. We are given vivid

explanations of a sewer of infection running around the bases of

people's jaw/teeth, the black and green crap that often resides below

the surface. Then I get you to share some soft porn crap about how

your doing fine on a RICH approach.Man!! I told Rich to get off his

arse and spend some time with Real CFS patients so he can walk in

there shoes instead of spouting out what he thinks when he isn't

comfortable in the subject matter.Remember we have a condition also

commonly known as ME the E standing for an ENCEPHALITIS TYPE PROBLEM.

Swelling of the brain..So how did you conquer all this? you champion

of the cause you.I also like your no sinus problem but have a good

ENT?

Personally I think you must have a very soft case of cfs that

possably would have responded to a couple of days of aspirin, the way

your sounding out your miracle cure.I sort of tend to listen to

people like Penny/PAula/ who are the norm and take into

consideration the massive insult it has on bony structures, joints,

organs, the spine in particular. And thanks to that modern miracle of

man RICH, you can reverse this aggressive forward shift in the ageing

process by glutathione replenishment.MAn I'm going to have to go out

and join a breast feeding club.

> >

> >

> > The most important thing I've ever read on forums is people's

> > response to drugs. An egs. Dave from england took some staphylex

and

> > was in remission for half a year. This is an often repeated story

on

> > many forums. Many others claim 80 to 95% imporvrment in there

> > symptoms- from not being able to walk to the letter box to almost

> > full functioning. I don't know if this is telling you a story. TO

ME

> > IT READS THAT IF PEOPLE DID A LITTLE SCIENCE AND PUSHED THE

BACTERIA

> > INTO OBLIVION THEN THE RESULTS WOULD LOOK EVEN BETTER.Just

someything

> > you may want to learn or share with your yasko friends.

Treatments on

> > antiobiotics look very different than what you may have

associated

> > with. People do IV's, they do intramuscular, they do pills.Then

> > there's the choice of 100 different antibiotics created to attack

> > many problems. Often they use triple antibiotic combo's and drain

> > area's of infection to get the most desirable outcome.With

> > tuberculosis treatment can go on for 2 years and all you have is

a

> > lung tissue infection that needs triple combo's to get thru the

> > granulated area's housing tubercule bacillus.Imagine if your

spine

> > pelvis and a few other body parts housed a large infection you'd

need

> > to go the tuberculosis approch and then some??

> >

>

[Guest guest]

DAvid

If I recall correctly, you are or where doing the blasi salts??

> >

> I am not very sick after 11 years of

> > antibiotics and would rather be cooking dinner today and writing

my

> > next book than writing or reading here. I think that is a good

sign

> > that antibiotics may have some good effects.)

>

>

>

> ***I agree. I also think this is the crux of the problem you're

> having with me, you don't feel bad enough and you're over the hump

> that some PWCs get over, like Dr Cheney has observed happens, from

the

> treatment path you chose, though you folks are not totally

> well(Congrats!).

>

>

> ***In most, abx alone don't work or at best have only a minor

benefit

> as you know. And what I've been endorsing is Rich's hypothesis for

CFS

> pathogenesis(which predicts abx may work in some), not Yasko, for

> which I'm not doing and don't claim its omnipotence, just said it

> seems to fit well with Rich's theory and looks interesting

(especially

> the RNA treatments that are new to this world).

>

>

> ***So if this is unconvincing, I'm not surprised. I haven't

assigned

> myself this task, never implied I would(that's a lot of work you're

> asking other folks to do for free, if you become serious about it,

> given the individuality of each case and the different things each

> case would be found to need within it).

>

>

> ***

>

[Guest guest]

Tony, from what I recall has been as sick or more-so as any of

us. I think you and all of us should respect him and Rich V. It's not

that their suggestions are useless at all. Personally I have found

that ImmunoPro and Recuperation have been a tremendous help and have

certainly backed up the antibiotic treatment. Garth Nicolson would

certainly say the same.

Now as to breast feeding...probably keeps babies from ever getting

severe cases of Lyme disease unless, of course, the mother is

infected, then God only knows...

a Carnes

>

>

> While you think your cutting edge. Me and my buddies (Penny can

> vouch) run the gauntlet of cutting edge testing and full

> understanding of these conditions. We hear all the horror stories

of

> people's faces pulled off there skull to clean up massive

infections.

> We get the biopsy stories from cancerous thyroids. We are given

vivid

> explanations of a sewer of infection running around the bases of

> people's jaw/teeth, the black and green crap that often resides

below

> the surface. Then I get you to share some soft porn crap about how

> your doing fine on a RICH approach.Man!! I told Rich to get off his

> arse and spend some time with Real CFS patients so he can walk in

> there shoes instead of spouting out what he thinks when he isn't

> comfortable in the subject matter.Remember we have a condition also

> commonly known as ME the E standing for an ENCEPHALITIS TYPE

PROBLEM.

> Swelling of the brain..So how did you conquer all this? you

champion

> of the cause you.I also like your no sinus problem but have a good

> ENT?

> Personally I think you must have a very soft case of cfs that

> possably would have responded to a couple of days of aspirin, the

way

> your sounding out your miracle cure.I sort of tend to listen to

> people like Penny/PAula/ who are the norm and take into

> consideration the massive insult it has on bony structures, joints,

> organs, the spine in particular. And thanks to that modern miracle

of

> man RICH, you can reverse this aggressive forward shift in the

ageing

> process by glutathione replenishment.MAn I'm going to have to go

out

> and join a breast feeding club.

>

[Guest guest]

davidhall2020 <davidhall@...> wrote: I did have infectious bony islands in my scull like diabetics get, but RenewPro got rid ofthem all I sense and hashismoto's completely and diabetes insipidus/low blood volume completely and diastolic heart dysfunction I sense is gone too. What? Are you kidding me? How the hell did "RenewPro" get rid of "infectious bony islands"? If true, that's a major scientific advancement. Do you have before and after dx's and scans to back it up? Look, with a dramatic statement tossed out like that, you must understand my skepticism when it comes to believing that you grasp the seriousness of chronic infection (bone or otherwise) or for that matter, who has and who hasn't "nailed it" with

their CFS theories. Hey, if you can truly say this has helped you, I'm really happy. But before I'm convinced, I need a lot more evidence than sky high claims. I need to know if this is a full recovery and how long this recovery has lasted. If a year or more then I'm interested. I want to know how much RenewPro you took and for how long. I'm sure insurance companies would be all over it as well. Sure would be cheaper than the standard course of action taken for bone infection now. penny

[Guest guest]

How the hell, indeed, Penny. Amen to this.

a Carnes

> davidhall2020 <davidhall@...> wrote:

>

> I did have infectious bony islands in my scull like diabetics

get, but RenewPro got rid of

> them all I sense and hashismoto's completely and diabetes

insipidus/low blood volume completely and diastolic heart dysfunction

I sense is gone too.

>

> What? Are you kidding me? How the hell did " RenewPro " get rid

of " infectious bony islands " ? If true, that's a major scientific

advancement. Do you have before and after dx's and scans to back it

up?

>

> Look, with a dramatic statement tossed out like that, you must

understand my skepticism when it comes to believing that you grasp

the seriousness of chronic infection (bone or otherwise) or for that

matter, who has and who hasn't " nailed it " with their CFS theories.

>

> Hey, if you can truly say this has helped you, I'm really happy.

But before I'm convinced, I need a lot more evidence than sky high

claims. I need to know if this is a full recovery and how long this

recovery has lasted. If a year or more then I'm interested. I want to

know how much RenewPro you took and for how long. I'm sure insurance

companies would be all over it as well. Sure would be cheaper than

the standard course of action taken for bone infection now.

>

> penny

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Tony.

dumbaussie2000@...> wrote:

>

>

> While you think your cutting edge. Me and my buddies (Penny can

> vouch) run the gauntlet of cutting edge testing and full

> understanding of these conditions.

***I don't doubt what you do is valid, but " full understanding " , NO!

We hear all the horror stories of

> people's faces pulled off there skull to clean up massive infections.

> We get the biopsy stories from cancerous thyroids. We are given vivid

> explanations of a sewer of infection running around the bases of

> people's jaw/teeth, the black and green crap that often resides below

> the surface. Then I get you to share some soft porn crap about how

> your doing fine on a RICH approach.Man!!

***Its hard core, dude, not soft. Results are paramount and I'm

seeing them.

I told Rich to get off his

> arse and spend some time with Real CFS patients so he can walk in

> there shoes instead of spouting out what he thinks when he isn't

> comfortable in the subject matter.Remember we have a condition also

> commonly known as ME the E standing for an ENCEPHALITIS TYPE PROBLEM.

> Swelling of the brain..So how did you conquer all this?

***I have remaining inflammation in and around the right amygdala.

This is consistent with my remaining symptoms and studies of CFS

brains studies showing right side hypoperfusion and right side

abnormal metabolism.

you champion

> of the cause you.

***I resemble this remark. I apologize if this insults you, not

I also like your no sinus problem but have a good

> ENT?

***Oh yes, he and my primary doc at the time found a big right jaw

osteo lesion and infection, which was ultimately surgically and abx

treated. RenewPro seems to have prevented return of any infection. My

titanium dental implant for the #19(the BIGGIE) molar removed is

giving me no problems, three years now.

> Personally I think you must have a very soft case of cfs that

> possably would have responded to a couple of days of aspirin, the way

> your sounding out your miracle cure.

***Okay, so you're delusional. I don't knock you for it. Give this

one a rest, though.

I sort of tend to listen to

> people like Penny/PAula/ who are the norm and take into

> consideration the massive insult it has on bony structures, joints,

> organs, the spine in particular. And thanks to that modern miracle of

> man RICH, you can reverse this aggressive forward shift in the ageing

> process by glutathione replenishment.MAn I'm going to have to go out

> and join a breast feeding club.

***You might enjoy this for more reasons other than health

***

[Guest guest]

<dumbaussie2000@...> wrote:

>

> DAvid

> If I recall correctly, you are or where doing the blasi salts??

***No. You must be thinking of someone else.

***

[Guest guest]

?

So your saying your primary doctor and your ENT found a MASSIVE

INFECTION AROUND YOUR JAW AND WENT ABOUT ERADICATING IT. Debriding

and antibiotics ...And your the No Infection man. Dellusional is you

buddy.And if this was still festering you'd be here buck ass swearing

black and blue your cured of cfs by doing something everyone else has

failed with- or better still you got the combinations right they

didn't...

tony

> >

> >

> > While you think your cutting edge. Me and my buddies (Penny can

> > vouch) run the gauntlet of cutting edge testing and full

> > understanding of these conditions.

>

>

>

> ***I don't doubt what you do is valid, but " full understanding " , NO!

>

>

>

> We hear all the horror stories of

> > people's faces pulled off there skull to clean up massive

infections.

> > We get the biopsy stories from cancerous thyroids. We are given

vivid

> > explanations of a sewer of infection running around the bases of

> > people's jaw/teeth, the black and green crap that often resides

below

> > the surface. Then I get you to share some soft porn crap about

how

> > your doing fine on a RICH approach.Man!!

>

>

>

> ***Its hard core, dude, not soft. Results are paramount and I'm

> seeing them.

>

>

>

> I told Rich to get off his

> > arse and spend some time with Real CFS patients so he can walk in

> > there shoes instead of spouting out what he thinks when he isn't

> > comfortable in the subject matter.Remember we have a condition

also

> > commonly known as ME the E standing for an ENCEPHALITIS TYPE

PROBLEM.

> > Swelling of the brain..So how did you conquer all this?

>

>

>

> ***I have remaining inflammation in and around the right amygdala.

> This is consistent with my remaining symptoms and studies of CFS

> brains studies showing right side hypoperfusion and right side

> abnormal metabolism.

>

>

>

> you champion

> > of the cause you.

>

>

>

> ***I resemble this remark. I apologize if this insults you, not

>

>

>

> I also like your no sinus problem but have a good

> > ENT?

>

>

> ***Oh yes, he and my primary doc at the time found a big right jaw

> osteo lesion and infection, which was ultimately surgically and abx

> treated. RenewPro seems to have prevented return of any infection.

My

> titanium dental implant for the #19(the BIGGIE) molar removed is

> giving me no problems, three years now.

>

>

>

> > Personally I think you must have a very soft case of cfs that

> > possably would have responded to a couple of days of aspirin, the

way

> > your sounding out your miracle cure.

>

>

>

> ***Okay, so you're delusional. I don't knock you for it. Give this

> one a rest, though.

>

>

>

> I sort of tend to listen to

> > people like Penny/PAula/ who are the norm and take into

> > consideration the massive insult it has on bony structures,

joints,

> > organs, the spine in particular. And thanks to that modern

miracle of

> > man RICH, you can reverse this aggressive forward shift in the

ageing

> > process by glutathione replenishment.MAn I'm going to have to go

out

> > and join a breast feeding club.

>

>

>

> ***You might enjoy this for more reasons other than health

>

>

>

> ***

>

[Guest guest]

Dental implant? No more need to try to convince me of anything about anything until you can demonstrate an understanding of the impact surgical implants frequently have on bone or how common, yet undetected, chronic infections (osteomyelitis) at these sites are. Big, big sigh...... penny davidhall2020 <davidhall@...> wrote: Hi, Tony.dumbaussie2000@...> wrote:>> > While you think your

cutting edge. Me and my buddies (Penny can > vouch) run the gauntlet of cutting edge testing and full > understanding of these conditions. ***I don't doubt what you do is valid, but "full understanding", NO!We hear all the horror stories of > people's faces pulled off there skull to clean up massive infections.> We get the biopsy stories from cancerous thyroids. We are given vivid > explanations of a sewer of infection running around the bases of > people's jaw/teeth, the black and green crap that often resides below > the surface. Then I get you to share some soft porn crap about how > your doing fine on a RICH approach.Man!! ***Its hard core, dude, not soft. Results are paramount and I'mseeing them.I told Rich to get off his > arse and spend some time with Real CFS patients so he can walk in > there shoes instead of spouting out what he thinks when he isn't

> comfortable in the subject matter.Remember we have a condition also > commonly known as ME the E standing for an ENCEPHALITIS TYPE PROBLEM. > Swelling of the brain..So how did you conquer all this? ***I have remaining inflammation in and around the right amygdala.This is consistent with my remaining symptoms and studies of CFSbrains studies showing right side hypoperfusion and right sideabnormal metabolism. you champion > of the cause you.***I resemble this remark. I apologize if this insults you, not ;)I also like your no sinus problem but have a good > ENT?***Oh yes, he and my primary doc at the time found a big right jawosteo lesion and infection, which was ultimately surgically and abxtreated. RenewPro seems to have prevented return of any infection. Mytitanium dental implant for the #19(the BIGGIE) molar removed isgiving me no problems, three years now.>

Personally I think you must have a very soft case of cfs that > possably would have responded to a couple of days of aspirin, the way > your sounding out your miracle cure.***Okay, so you're delusional. I don't knock you for it. Give thisone a rest, though.I sort of tend to listen to > people like Penny/PAula/ who are the norm and take into > consideration the massive insult it has on bony structures, joints, > organs, the spine in particular. And thanks to that modern miracle of > man RICH, you can reverse this aggressive forward shift in the ageing > process by glutathione replenishment.MAn I'm going to have to go out > and join a breast feeding club.***You might enjoy this for more reasons other than health ***

[Guest guest]

Oh, and yeah, I forgot the obvious question. Why was the dental implant needed in the first place? Because the tooth was INFECTED. ROTTED. NECROTIC. right? If orthopedic surgeons have trouble getting surgical implants to take, with all their medical understanding, infectious disease specialists at their sides, and all the resources available to them, I wonder why it's so easy for a dentist, who's not even trained in infection, to plop a piece of metal in a jaw, give minimal abx and have nothing go wrong? Amazing. Especially considering the particular texture of the jaw bone, the abundance of bacteria in the mouth, and the proximity to really, really vital body parts. Maybe dentists should be doing hip replacements. Seems logical enough. penny Dental implant? No more need to try to convince me of anything about anything until you can demonstrate an understanding of the impact surgical implants frequently have on bone or how common, yet undetected, chronic infections (osteomyelitis) at these sites are. Big, big sigh...... penny davidhall2020 <davidhallwebtv (DOT) net> wrote: Hi, Tony.dumbaussie2000@...>

wrote:>> > While you think your cutting edge. Me and my buddies (Penny can > vouch) run the gauntlet of cutting edge testing and full > understanding of these conditions. ***I don't doubt what you do is valid, but "full understanding", NO!We hear all the horror stories of > people's faces pulled off there skull to clean up massive infections.> We get the biopsy stories from cancerous thyroids. We are given vivid > explanations of a sewer of infection running around the bases of > people's jaw/teeth, the black and green crap that often resides below > the surface. Then I get you to share some soft porn crap about how > your doing fine on a RICH approach.Man!! ***Its hard core, dude, not soft. Results are paramount and I'mseeing them.I told Rich to get off his > arse and spend some time with Real CFS patients so he can walk in > there

shoes instead of spouting out what he thinks when he isn't > comfortable in the subject matter.Remember we have a condition also > commonly known as ME the E standing for an ENCEPHALITIS TYPE PROBLEM. > Swelling of the brain..So how did you conquer all this? ***I have remaining inflammation in and around the right amygdala.This is consistent with my remaining symptoms and studies of CFSbrains studies showing right side hypoperfusion and right sideabnormal metabolism. you champion > of the cause you.***I resemble this remark. I apologize if this insults you, not ;)I also like your no sinus problem but have a good > ENT?***Oh yes, he and my primary doc at the time found a big right jawosteo lesion and infection, which was ultimately surgically and abxtreated. RenewPro seems to have prevented return of any infection. Mytitanium dental implant for the #19(the BIGGIE) molar

removed isgiving me no problems, three years now.> Personally I think you must have a very soft case of cfs that > possably would have responded to a couple of days of aspirin, the way > your sounding out your miracle cure.***Okay, so you're delusional. I don't knock you for it. Give thisone a rest, though.I sort of tend to listen to > people like Penny/PAula/ who are the norm and take into > consideration the massive insult it has on bony structures, joints, > organs, the spine in particular. And thanks to that modern miracle of > man RICH, you can reverse this aggressive forward shift in the ageing > process by glutathione replenishment.MAn I'm going to have to go out > and join a breast feeding club.***You might enjoy this for more reasons other than health ***

[Guest guest]

Hi, Penny and a.

<pennyhoule@...> wrote:

>

> davidhall2020 <davidhall@...> wrote:

>

> I did have infectious bony islands in my scull like diabetics

get, but RenewPro got rid of

> them all I sense and hashismoto's completely and diabetes

insipidus/low blood volume completely and diastolic heart dysfunction

I sense is gone too.

>

> What? Are you kidding me? How the hell did " RenewPro " get rid of

" infectious bony islands " ? If true, that's a major scientific

advancement.

***Maybe it is. It's just my sense as I stated. These come and go in

diabetics, so don't how major this would sound for CFS, talking to

regular docs.

Do you have before and after dx's and scans to back it up?

***I do have befores, not afters, as you can appreciate when a problem

appears gone and isn't the primary issue you move on. I do have

befores and afters for osteo in jaw, this returned once a second time

four years after surgury and abx, requiring the same again.

***But RenewPro seems to be keeping any new infection and inflmmation

for ocurring. I was able to put in a titanium molar implant and this

hasn't caused me problems with new inflammation, first RenewPro and

secondly anticoag supps I credit for keeping it this way.

>

> Look, with a dramatic statement tossed out like that

***It's not so dramatic when consdiring what glutathione and good

chelation(dmps) does for immunity. And the hashimoto's hypothyroidism

and diabetes insipidus, both quantifiably, are cured in me because of

the RenewPro exclusively.

, you must understand my skepticism when it comes to believing that

you grasp the seriousness of chronic infection (bone or otherwise) or

for that matter, who has and who hasn't " nailed it " with their CFS

theories.

***Okay then you explain my improvements and clearly cured dxs because

of RenewPro use. These did happen.

>

> Hey, if you can truly say this has helped you, I'm really happy.

But before I'm convinced, I need a lot more evidence than sky high

claims. I need to know if this is a full recovery and how long this

recovery has lasted.

***Hashimoto's dx in 1997 and needed daily thyroid meds up to last

Feb, so one full year there. Had diabetes insipidus going back to

probably age 15, but more clearly an issue by 1996, but have been

cured since about late 2005(more than a year now). Dental implant got

in 2003 and I'm now exercising regularly since last summer, no set

backs nor flu-like feelings since starting RenewPro in early 2005.

If a year or more then I'm interested. I want to know how much

RenewPro you took and for how long.

***Two scoops daily(250mg each).

I'm sure insurance companies would be all over it as well. Sure would

be cheaper than the standard course of action taken for bone infection

now.

***I agree with this second statement.

>

> penny

>

***

[Guest guest]

Hi, Tony

<dumbaussie2000@...> wrote:

>

> ?

> So your saying your primary doctor and your ENT found a MASSIVE

> INFECTION AROUND YOUR JAW AND WENT ABOUT ERADICATING IT. Debriding

> and antibiotics

***Correct.

...And your the No Infection man.

***I didn't say this. Our brains are riddled with dna viruses and

metal toxins, so I still have more to go in reducing remaining brain

inflammation and it is all detoxing slowly as I progress, but jaw and

skull bacterial infection are gone.

Dellusional is you

> buddy.

***Abx aren't the only nor nesc the best tx choices, Tony. That's

what's delusional for anything f-ing up health for years, decades.

And if this was still festering you'd be here buck ass swearing

> black and blue your cured of cfs by doing something everyone else has

> failed with- or better still you got the combinations right they

> didn't...

***This latter statement could be true, different methylation blocks

exist for each PWC. I may have unknowingly fixed them without a Yasko

and this allowed RenewPro to do its job and pull me up to the new level.

> tony

***

[Guest guest]

It seems to me that we should pay attention to people who have had

dramatic improvement in their conditions. Some may be skeptical and

waiting to see relapse, but we should definitely take note. So that

means we should look at what Tony, Barb, , a, etc and now

, and hopefully Penny have all accomplished. We're all different

of course. Unfortunately my illness doesn't seem to match up exactly

to any of the examples we have, but you can bet I'm doing a lot of

comparing and looking into what each one is saying. I'm not sure why

some people's claims are met with so much more disbelief than others,

but I hope this doesn't turn into an " I told you so " match.

- Kate

[Guest guest]

DAvid

I made a huge statement explaning the mess caused around the

sinus/teeth/head and also how clinically imnportant it is to have

this viewed by the best methods possable, as most FUCKWITS in the

medical proffesion will give you the NO INFECTION story. You come on

here and fuken give us some song and dance how rich and his theories

(sounds like benni hin) are fixing you up.You just forgot to mention

the massive infection cut out of you enabling a body that's

constantly diseased and vaso constricting, leading to blood volume

losses and the like, and you got fixed with SUPPLEMENTS. I don't know

how hard to laugh, or are you just naturally STUPID to think we

beleive that you got fixed on a theory by someone that hasn't the

foggiest what real cfs is all about.

Now how Dumb am I to discuss the importance of the massive infection

frequently found in the sinus or above the teeth?And you owned up to

having this attended to on 2 occasions.

MAte I must be fuken crazy or something- because your whole cfs has

had nothing to do with infection?I wonder what everyone else that

read your posts thinks?

tony

> >

> > ?

> > So your saying your primary doctor and your ENT found a MASSIVE

> > INFECTION AROUND YOUR JAW AND WENT ABOUT ERADICATING IT.

Debriding

> > and antibiotics

>

>

>

> ***Correct.

>

>

>

> ...And your the No Infection man.

>

>

>

> ***I didn't say this. Our brains are riddled with dna viruses and

> metal toxins, so I still have more to go in reducing remaining brain

> inflammation and it is all detoxing slowly as I progress, but jaw

and

> skull bacterial infection are gone.

>

>

>

> Dellusional is you

> > buddy.

>

>

>

> ***Abx aren't the only nor nesc the best tx choices, Tony. That's

> what's delusional for anything f-ing up health for years, decades.

>

>

>

> And if this was still festering you'd be here buck ass swearing

> > black and blue your cured of cfs by doing something everyone else

has

> > failed with- or better still you got the combinations right they

> > didn't...

>

>

>

> ***This latter statement could be true, different methylation blocks

> exist for each PWC. I may have unknowingly fixed them without a

Yasko

> and this allowed RenewPro to do its job and pull me up to the new

level.

>

>

>

> > tony

>

>

>

> ***

>

[Guest guest]

Kate, I don't know how long you've been around, but I can't tell you how many times someone comes in with the "I told you so" tone to begin with. They've found the cure and everyone else should just believe it or be a fool. With no evidence. And then 5 years later, they're still here talking about the 'latest thing'. Hey, I've said before that I'm happy for anyone to get better, and I've always said it takes a comprehensive approach, and an individual approach, but I've been where says he's at now, and guess what, I relapsed. even did the MP! That tells me he was still sick enough and desperate enough that he was willing to do a very unproven protocol. Now he's claming that he has been able to eradicate bone infection with RenewPro! I know quite a bit about how difficult they are to treat. If something as simple as RenewPro could cure people's bone infections, I'd be

trying to get it on national television. The problem is, I find it a ludicrous claim based on my own understanding and experience and I'm going to challenge it for the sake of those who are still looking for the elusive magic cure and might be tempted to chase this one down the rabbit hole. Even if I didn't find the idea ludicrous, I find the way he delivered his message a problem. He asserts that ABX are ineffective, when the truth is, they're not being used effectively. If he said ABX treatment can be ineffective or dangerous if not used properly, I"d be way more inclined to agree with him. But he says flat out they don't work. Even though he himself used not only abx, but debridement (standard osteomyelitis treatment) on his own jaw. But I'm supposed to believe it was the RenewPro that worked? Sorry, too many studies, and even his own experience, to support the opposite. And yet he chooses to believe it was because he's taking a

supplement. And for some reason, others want to too. penny by the way, I'm not counting any chickens yet. I just reported a move in a positive direction. Kate <KateDunlay@...> wrote: It seems to me that we should pay attention to people who have had dramatic improvement in their conditions. Some may be skeptical and waiting to see relapse, but we should definitely take note. So that means we should look at

what Tony, Barb, , a, etc and now , and hopefully Penny have all accomplished. We're all different of course. Unfortunately my illness doesn't seem to match up exactly to any of the examples we have, but you can bet I'm doing a lot of comparing and looking into what each one is saying. I'm not sure why some people's claims are met with so much more disbelief than others, but I hope this doesn't turn into an "I told you so" match.- Kate

[Guest guest]

Yes.. I bet we have alot more in common with than anyone thinks-

I've been following the sucess stories- and regardless of the initial

dx.. and there's definitely some similarities IMO.. and alot of it has

to do with the use of anti-inflammatory - and the supplements used to

clean up inflammations' mess in the body..

Barb

--- In infections , Kate <KateDunlay@...>

wrote:

>

> It seems to me that we should pay attention to people who have had

> dramatic improvement in their conditions. Some may be skeptical and

> waiting to see relapse, but we should definitely take note. So that

> means we should look at what Tony, Barb, , a, etc and now

> , and hopefully Penny have all accomplished. We're all

different

> of course. Unfortunately my illness doesn't seem to match up exactly

> to any of the examples we have, but you can bet I'm doing a lot of

> comparing and looking into what each one is saying. I'm not sure why

> some people's claims are met with so much more disbelief than

others,

> but I hope this doesn't turn into an " I told you so " match.

>

> - Kate

>