Re:

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/6/99 8:57:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

cshadrick@... writes:

<< Carolyn,

Where are you located that you were not able to provide epidurals?

Trevor

I am in Dallas Oregon about 15 min west of Salem. We have the technology but

our anes. was not willing to do them. He does not want to stay in house at

night. We are a very small hospital only 44 total and did not have 24 hour in

house anes. But we do now.

Carolyn >>

We also had only intrathecals ONLY for awhile (unless you wer a doctors wife

or a nurse!).

And then the anesthesia group decided to offer epidurals (our community was

NOT asking for them!) and we fought it...and lost! We now have had them

available for over four years. Our rate however has climbed from initiation

(first year <5%) epidural to now hovering around 15%.

Most of our families desire a natural childbirth experience and come to us

for our support and expertise with such births. The epidurals are almost

exclusively our high risk patients or transports in from outlying hospitals.

Then again there are those few locals who want their happydurals in the

parking lot....

Jan

[Guest guest]

We use the same technique for encouraging baths..only in labor it's " just in

case you have to have an emergency c/s you have to shower with antibacterial

soap " !!!

[Guest guest]

We've had alot of dad's that needed showers too. We usually give them the

whole " she really needs to you help her relax so she's going to get in the

shower for relaxation and you can help her " routine!

[Guest guest]

I can't understand why any nurse would not love L & D.

Pat

[Guest guest]

Janet:

That was quite elucidating. I'm printing this. The wife has to

read it. It sounds like a real obstacle course - sort of a test of

strength requiring something besides the ability to endure. The

twist is that this is a fight for life, requiring a certain

mindset...something new for me. I am grateful for your help, Janet.

> > Doug:

> >

> > You say,

> >

> >

> > >I will have been through

> > > two rounds of treatment and Hepatitis C treatment is a real

> > > life destroyer for me, especially the first round.

> >

> > " LIFE DESTROYER " sounds pretty heavy...especially as

> a " TREATMENT. "

> > Are you saying that you had been like ultra-tired, exhausted,

> > needing the afternoon siesta?

> >

> > > The second round I'm in now I've tried to avoid some of those

> > > things though.

> >

> > What have you tried to avoid?

> >

> > >I'm managing to get remodeling and redecorating

> > > done on the house. I've upgraded my Cisco networking

> > certification.

> >

> > So, the second go-round was better in that you could handle the

> > medication better? Do you feel " NORMAL? " Is there any normalcy

in

> > this?

> >

> > >Hep treatment is somewhat

> > > life destroying for me. Now that I'm on the last 14 weeks of

> > > the treatment phase of this study I'm focusing on life building

> > > and I'm going to continue to focus on life building for a few

> > > years before I try the treatment again. This, of course,

supposes

> > > that the treatment doesn't work.

> >

> > Doug, I know that you're enrolled in some program (study) of

sorts,

> > but aren't we all guinea pigs? While in the waiting room at the

> > doctors, I spoke to a few people who both said that the long,

drawn-

> > out treatments didn't do a damned thing for 'em. I wonder what

> they

> > are giving us.

> >

> > > Prior to this study, I concentrated on preparing myself to deal

> > > with the physical rigors of treatment. Before it got cold I

rode

> > > my bike three times a week. Two 60 milers which I would

complete

> > > in under four hours and one ride out to where my partner works

> > > and we would have lunch. That was a 46 mile ride. I did this

> > > each week. When it got too cold I bought a bike trainer. I

would

> > > ride 45 minutes a day at about 18 miles per hour. The goal

was to

> > > get my stamina up.

> >

> > I'm curious to know how this all helps in the long run.

> >

> > > The point of this is that I'm learning how to handle the

treatment

> > > when I have minimal support.

> >

> > When you say " HANDLE " the treatment...it sounds grueling. No?

> >

> > >I'll be prepared

> > > to deal with the mental issues by having prepared a desireable

and

> > > more secure lifestyle.

> >

> > In other words, it aint exactly a cakewalk: What about

the 'mental

> > issues,' if I may ask? What issues are there?

> >

> > You can tell by listening to me that I'm a damned thithy. But I

> > know you're telling it like it is, and I greatly appreciate that.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Happy Saterday to everyone. I hope that more of you will use this

opportunity to be " proactive " so we can reason and learn together.

Thank to those who have announced this in other groups. This is

helpful in building community.

Time is the great teacher and I have been into macrobiotics long

enough that it is second nature [besides label reading before I make

purchases]. Age and experience tends to make us more tolerant of

others but questioning is a great thing as long as you have

established repore and your friends don't mind you making them

think. Also, as you accept yourself and that we don't live in a

perfect world, it will create positive change, rather than being

someone constantly in search of salvation. Reg has heard me use the

addage " Do your best and bless the rest " . I choose to be around

others who have an attitude of wanting to make things better rather

than simple supporting their personal comfort zone. It takes energy

to challenge oneself to advance. At the same time, I don't concern

myself with domesicated " cowlike " people who move in herds. I accept

that it is easier to follow than lead, especially in a labotomized

media culture.

The growth in the healthfood industy, whole foods, and that

vegetarianism is even considered in societies beyond places like

India, is hopeful to me. I have seen so many changes since my eyes

were opened to macrobiotics in 1985. Besides reading Kushi's world

view, I read LaPette's " Diet for A Small Planet " which led me away

from my association with General Motors and Lockheed Missles. I have

generally been moderate in my views, though became apathic after the

Viet Nam era. [btw, have pics of my bros time in Nam in

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/ritterstar].

I was raised in a family where protestanism and militarism were

honored but have always had a questioning spirtit. I am sure that

being a boy in SSanFrancisco in the 60's had something to do with it

since my peers considered it alright to question status quo. I love

my kin deeply though I think that they are shackled by a few hundred

years of tradition. Because of the fact that the Gia is alive and

ever changing, we can not afford to be complacent. I can understand

how it is frustrating when those around you are satisfied to " go

with the flow " but not everyone feels the need to redirect it.

Change the world but do it with love and compassion. *

....> wrote:

> Hi ,

I hope this group will enable us all to learn.

> I believe we are always (or should be) in a state of

knowledge.

> Having this group will really enable us to all gain some more

knowledge and acceptance. Speaking of acceptance, when meeting

Michio Kushi he said that he has gotten to the point that he doesn't

become bothered by what others eat, like if they are not Macro,

etc. I am trying to get there but because veganism is an ethical

issue besides health for me, I find it more difficult and find

myself judging others. I think it will be healthier for me to not

think that way. Then again, if those didn't make a stance and speak

for animals, they would have fewer rights.........

> Isn't life a catch 22? lol

> , Michio Kushi said to scrub the body each day with a

washcloth while in the shower and I do that.

[Guest guest]

Hi Reg,

Sorry I sounded so down on where I live in my previous post. When I

relocated my parents here 19 years ago (I was living in SF), had anyone

told me at that time that I would one day live in Citrus County, I would

have howled with laughter. Just goes to show ya...

You are right - I am here for a reason. My Dad has passed away and I

look after my Mom. I have a job that I really like, and for the first

time in my life I own my own home. All good reasons for being here.

Thanks for the reality check

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You can't know how your email made my day. I've been in a horrible

flair and it's causing depression and I'm exhausted and all that

goes along with it. I'm scraping by on a thread (did I just make up

an expression?)

Taking care of a parent must be the most rewarding job in itself.

You get to give back what you were given unconditionally. Don't

forget what you do is a difficult task and you should be proud of

yourself.

The thing I try to tell myself about living in Florida is housing is

much less expensive here and that I just visit where I like more

often. Well, it used to work b4 having Marlie....... sounds good

doesn't it? LOL

Where are you from? I know you lived in SF, I would love to hear

the long version sometime.

Have a great one,

Reggie

> Hi Reg,

> Sorry I sounded so down on where I live in my previous post. When

I

> relocated my parents here 19 years ago (I was living in SF), had

anyone

> told me at that time that I would one day live in Citrus County, I

would

> have howled with laughter. Just goes to show ya...

>

> You are right - I am here for a reason. My Dad has passed away

and I

> look after my Mom. I have a job that I really like, and for the

first

> time in my life I own my own home. All good reasons for being

here.

>

> Thanks for the reality check

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

My birthday was yesterday and I turned 26. No, I have never been to that

place, but I read a few funny reviews on it. I tend to hang out more

downtown.

My co-op's web-address is:

http://www.georgestreetcoop.com/

I didn't get to go to their dinner last night (friend's decided they didn't

want to go last minute) therefore, I have three tofu lemon coconut

cheesecakes sitting here and no idea what the heck to do with them:(

agggghhh. I certainly can't eat all of them! They are amazing, btw.. I tried

a piece when they were still hot and couldn't figure out how anyone could

dare call this cheesecake-like well now that they sat overnight they are

very yummy...and kinda like cheesecake (sans dairy:)

To subscribe to our e-group (21 - 35 year old vegan, macrobiotic, organic,

raw foodists) email

subscribe-nycveg@...

We are planning a dinner in the next few weeks (probably after V-Day).

Anyway, take care and have a nice day.

Happy Eid!

.

[Guest guest]

Happy Birthday, ! " Cheesecakes " sounds yummy - could you freeze

them?

/FL

[Guest guest]

Hey Reggie,

I have put rice in my soup both yesterday and today, I actually finished my soup both days!! That has never happened. Thanks so much for that recommendation.

Marlie Pepper, that's a great name! If I have a daughter I want to name her Madison Eva Rae, Bruce thinks I'm crazy.

I will comb the bookstore this weekend for books I might be able to convince Bruce to read. I will also check out that Carole book.

I have tried talking to him about my issues, he thinks raising kids vegetarian is okay b/c he doesn't think anyone should miss out on cheese. When I mentioned to him about raising our kids, if we have them, vegan he said "If the doctors say it's healthy I guess I'm alright with it." Most doctors don't know anything about raising kids vegan, they are as brainwashed as the rest of the American culture. I could say that I can just wait it out, see where it goes as I am still young but at the same time I would hate to think he and I are wasting time we could be finding people we might be a bit more compatible with.Ugh...The Purple one wrote:

So , did you try the grains in the miso? How was it?LOL about cutting your veggies, I'm going to have that image in my headeverytime I cut veggies now.No, Marlie is not a nickname, her name is Marlie Pepper.I hope things work out with your boyfriend. I do agree it's best to notcram it down someone's throat but show him your decisions and how theywork for you. You could also get some Macrobiotics and Diabetes books toshow him? But watching him do this to himself must be difficult. You canonly tell him you are there for him. About your future and kids, it's atough call. I mean I am very lucky that Bruce is into eating this way andwhen health issues come up we agree. My friends who are vegan and havekids are better with vegan mates. 2 couples are with the man being

meateaters. One is fine and has no problem with the kids being raised vegan. The other well, they are getting a divorce and he is constantly baitingher with "I"m not going out of my way to buy organic and buy hereverything vegan when I watch her" and why can't you just stop being sonuts with the organics, etc. I do not believe I could be married to andraise a child with someone not like minded but many do it. There is abook by Carole called Living Among Meat Eaters you may want to checkit out.Have you tried talking to him about your issues?Keep me posted. ChadwickThe animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for whites or women for men.- Alice The questions is not; Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?- Jeremey Bentham

Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now

[Guest guest]

Hey ,

You're in a good place to find books at a library but you may want

to look online. Check ebay and www.half.com and www.amazon.com they

have some really good prices on used books and boy can you get a

good selection.

You are right about drs and nutrition. Unfortunately they don't get

more than something like 15 hours nutritional training in medical

school. The dairy industry does a great job promoting its products

and if you ever look at the pyramid charts they are made by the

dairy and cattle industry. ha ha but the joke is on us.

The other day I was nursing at the table (out to dinner with my

family) my brother got all upset that " part of my breast was

showing " and how long am I planning on nursing........... I flashed

him and then said I will stop nursing when Marlie wants to stop.

His wife nursed all their kids so he's not against nursing but

doesn't think long term nursing is good, like he would know he eats

horribly... He asked if I didnt' think it wasn't healthy or

something so Bruce answered that my brothers kids just went from

nursing off their mother to nursing off a cow by now eating dairy.

I thought it was brilliant. I never could understand the rationale

of going from human dairy which was designed specifically for human

babies to cow dairy which was designed specifically for cow babies,

aka calves. I mean if we think about it, it's absurd! It is not

for human consumption all it leads to is allergies, diseases such as

osteoperosis, arthritis, etc. Tell your Bruce that the countries

where dairy consumption is the highest there is also the highest

rates of osteoperosis: Holland and US. Tell him that if he has cow

genes and you birth a calf you will be happy to feed it cow

products.

Children raised on cow pus, juice, etc are much more prone to

allergies, strep throat, more vomiting, ear infections, obesity

etc. It is not opinion but fact.

Another thing you can do is get some books by Robbins, you know

him right? May All be Fed is another I like.

No, do not wait till " it happens " I think it's a mistake. I mean

there is no way you can discuss everything with parenting in advance

but the big issues, you should pan out. But, if you have time,

teach him why you feel the way you do, show him books if he is

willing to do research. You may be pleasantly surprised.

Have a great weekend with your research.

As soon as Marlie wakes from her nap we're off to the library for

some solar panel books.

Reggie

Hey Reggie,

>

> I have put rice in my soup both yesterday and today, I actually

finished my soup both days!! That has never happened. Thanks so much

for that recommendation.

>

> Marlie Pepper, that's a great name! If I have a daughter I want

to name her Madison Eva Rae, Bruce thinks I'm crazy.

>

> I will comb the bookstore this weekend for books I might be able

to convince Bruce to read. I will also check out that Carole

book.

>

> I have tried talking to him about my issues, he thinks raising

kids vegetarian is okay b/c he doesn't think anyone should miss out

on cheese. When I mentioned to him about raising our kids, if we

have them, vegan he said " If the doctors say it's healthy I guess

I'm alright with it. " Most doctors don't know anything about raising

kids vegan, they are as brainwashed as the rest of the American

culture. I could say that I can just wait it out, see where it goes

as I am still young but at the same time I would hate to think he

and I are wasting time we could be finding people we might be a bit

more compatible with.Ugh...

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Reggie,

Every once and a while I will read while eating my lunch. Sometimes when the latest issue of Cosmo arrives in the mail I just can't wait until I"m done eating to read it! I was always a big Dr. Suess fan, come to think of it, I still am.

I made a copy of my friends booklet he received from his macro counselor, it gives the traditional recipe (which does not include onions in kimpira) and then some ways to mix it up. I made arame last night and almost enjoyed it! My taste buds are changing, yay!

I actually didn't get to soak after my bike ride on Sunday, wanted to but just never got around to it. I'm feeling much better today, yesterday it was even uncomfortable to sit, I'm still not used to that bike seat. My legs feel great though.

Ah, the macro cruise. I was interested as well but my friend and I could not afford it. Not to mention my fiance being a little weirded out by the idea of me going on a cruise with another guy!

Still haven't gotten a chance to pick up the books you had mentioned. I haven't been to the bookstore in well over a month. Next time I go I am picking them up.

I have been feeling very congested lately, I clear my throat constantly. I know I should cut back on the tahini and incorporate more lotus root, does anyone know of anything else that may help me out?

Thanks!

The Purple one wrote:

Hey ,Thanks for sharing the miso recipe again. I shouldn't be, but am havingmy miso as I read my email. Well, I'm also reading Dr. Seuss books thatthe same time too. LOLI've never seen a recipe for onions in the kimpira, I should try itsometime. My husband loves onions and loves kimpira, good match.Glad to hear the weather was so nice and you were appreciating it 10 mileswow! Did you soak after? How sore are you? I'm so jealous the macro cruise is going on right now and I should be onit! Maybe next year. My daughter is just too young to do it I wouldmiss too much.Have a great week.ReggiePS did you ever get those books we were talking about? ChadwickThe animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black

people were made for whites or women for men.- Alice The questions is not; Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?- Jeremey Bentham

Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now

[Guest guest]

Hi Reggie,

I made my arame just like you described, I guess my tastebuds are adjusting. No complaints here!!

My Bruce and I actually had an argument last night during which he mentioned my macro friend and all the time we spend together or on the phone. So I said "you know how much you love talking about fishing, and I really hate listening about it? I'm sure you have much better conversations with your friends who like fishing don't you? That's why I talk to Mike and his family a lot, because they know about my diet and they are interested in it." His only response was "Well I don't care about your diet. I don't care what you're eating as long as you don't try to drag me into it." Drag him into it? I guess it's a lost cause. We fought about lots of other stuff last night, he didn't talk to me at all this morning. I'll have to see how it goes when I get home tonight. Maybe I'll be able to do the cruise next time...we'll see.

I was looking at the Kushi Institute catalog last night, I really don't have any of the necessary utensils or kitchen supplies for this diet. My first goal is a pressure cooker. I am currently boiling my rice in a teflon coated pot. How anti Macro is that? Eating all those good foods and poisoning myself with my pots. )

-The Purple one wrote:

Hey ,Arame almost good? Wow, I'm impressed! how did you prepare it? The onlyway I've made it and liked it is soaked, saute onions and carrots and thenadd arame with tamari/shoyu/whateverWhile pregnant I'd add it often to a stir fry with umeboshi vinegar. Ididn't follow recipes just made sure to eat lots of green leafies andseaweed.........The cruise, why didn't your fiance want to come? It would have been agreat opportunity to learn so much about what interests you. Has he beencoming around? I can understand how it would seem strange to have you goon a cruise with another man tho. My Bruce knows that I have malefriends, and my best friend is male so if I were to do that he would know(I think) nothing would be going on. Then again, my Bruce wanted to dothe cruise. If you wanted you could actually order some books online

then you won'thave to go anywhere, I like to order online sometimes b/c I don't have todrive out. The drivers down here are so dangerous!I'm not sure what you could do for your congestions, maybe someone elsehere can suggest something and if I remember when Bruce gets home I couldask him.If I weren't too lazy I'd get up and look in my macrobiotic home remediesfor some suggestions...........Sorry my daughter is down for a nap and I'm in blah mode!Be wellReggie ChadwickThe animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for whites or women for men.- Alice The questions is not; Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?- Jeremey Bentham

Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now

[Guest guest]

,

Maybe you can find a 7th Day Adventist doctor or wholistic one but it

seems that he has trust issues with you. One doesn't have to look far

to realize that someone that eats as you do has the potential for

great health. It's nice that he is willing to make concessions, but

sounds like he needs to do a little reading to be an active

participant in child rearing. Also, I think that parents are more

affective if they learn to work together and support each other. If

one parent is voicing doubts over lifestyle choices, likely the kids

will sooner or later. *

, Chadwick <qterthanu23@y...> wrote:

> I have tried talking to him about my issues, he thinks raising kids

vegetarian is okay b/c he doesn't think anyone should miss out on

cheese. When I mentioned to him about raising our kids, if we have

them, vegan he said " If the doctors say it's healthy I guess I'm

alright with it. " Most doctors don't know anything about raising kids

vegan

[Guest guest]

Reggie,

Bruce and I talked a little bit last night, didn't really come to any conclusions. That is how it always goes, I will try to talk to him some more today, see if I can get anywhere. We'll see. He doesn't think that our polar opposite lifestyles should be such a big deal. I admit, I am the one who changed, he didn't. He has always been a meat-eater who's first passion is fishing. When we started dating I ate meat too, never agreed with his fishing though (hypocritical, huh?) Well, now I'm a vegan and macrobiotic, I attend animal rights protests and write letters regarding that issue all the time. I also plan to raise my children ( if I have any)macro vegans. Like I said, polar opposites.

A thrift store, thanks so much! I had not even thought of that! My friend Mike tells me the same thing your counselor told you. He hates the idea of my cooking in the teflon coated pots so much that he often invites me over for dinner. He has a complete set of stainless steel pots and pans. At least I have a gas stove though. I am lucky with that. When Bruce and I were first dating he lived with his Grandmother who has an electric stove, her food never seemed right to me, even then. I have a Macro knife, Mike had an extra one his mother had ordered from the Kushi Institue that they never used.

Thanks for all of your support Reggie, I really appreciate it.

Cyberhugs back at ya,

The Purple one wrote:

Oh ,I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. I think he is showing and tellingthat he is feeling your new diet and way of life is a wedge between you. He is probably scared of the new you intimidated. Take a long hard lookat how you view your relationship for the present and future. If you lovehim and really see a future with him sit him down and reassure him thatyou love him and want to be with him but that you need his help and loveand support to make this transition b/c it is somethign you feel verystrongly about and really just want to do. If he loves you, which I'msure he does, he will come around. If not, you know what to do...........About your pots. What I did first was go to a thrift store and buy a fewpots and pans there b/c you can get some old good stainless for a fewdollars. Go to an Asian market and get yourself

one good knife whichshouldn't be more than $10-15. You simply should throw out your teflonthat is for sure. You can get a pressure cooker at the thrift store too. My counselor told me I could eat all the good for in the world if I amusing electric energy I won't get better, the same day I got my . Are you using gas to cook? It was too expensive too turn over to gas atmy old place so I bought a little stove (2 burner) and a propanetake and cooked like that till we moved. It's supposed to be dangerousbut as long as you make the sure the gas line is tight, you'll be fine. Well, I'm not telling you what to do, you have to make your own decisions.Please be well and stay positive we are all here for you.Cyber hugs,Reggie ChadwickThe animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for whites or women for men.-

Alice The questions is not; Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?- Jeremey Bentham

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[Guest guest]

Happy Birthday !!

Hope you have a fantastic day!!

purpleveg wrote:

Very important news, today X many years ago a very special person was born.......................HAPPY BIRTHDAY SONIA and many more and may they be filled with happiness and lots of gorgeous Jamaican men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Love ya!Reggie ChadwickThe animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for whites or women for men.- Alice The questions is not; Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?- Jeremey Bentham

Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now

[Guest guest]

Happy Birthday, Have a great day! (How come gets all

the gorgeous Jamaican men?)

> Very important news, today X many years ago a very special person

> was born.......................

> HAPPY BIRTHDAY SONIA

> and many more and may they be filled with happiness and lots of

> gorgeous Jamaican men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> Love ya!

> Reggie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you . I'd write more but I am currently having problems posting and from Reggie has told me this email too will probably come out blank.

"Happiness is a state of mind, become the change you envision" Hinds ----Original Message Follows---- From: Chadwick Reply-To: VeganMacrobiotics To: VeganMacrobiotics Subject: Re: Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:54:57 +0000 (GMT) Happy Birthday !! Hope you have a fantastic day!! purpleveg wrote: Very important news, today X many years ago a very special person was born....................... HAPPY BIRTHDAY SONIA and many more and may they be filled with happiness and lots of gorgeous Jamaican men!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Love ya! Reggie

[Guest guest]

You're welcome. Wonder what your trouble could be, doesn't Yahoo stink sometimes?!

Hope to talk with you soon!

Hinds wrote:

Thank you . I'd write more but I am currently having problems posting and from Reggie has told me this email too will probably come out blank.

"Happiness is a state of mind, become the change you envision" Hinds ----Original Message Follows---- From: Chadwick Reply-To: VeganMacrobiotics To: VeganMacrobiotics Subject: Re: Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:54:57 +0000 (GMT) Happy Birthday !! Hope you have a fantastic day!! purpleveg wrote: Very important news, today X many years ago a very special person was born....................... HAPPY BIRTHDAY SONIA and many more and may they be filled with happiness and lots of gorgeous Jamaican men!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Love ya! Reggie

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the nice birthday wishes and the phone call today. It was so nice to hear your voice.

"Happiness is a state of mind, become the change you envision" Hinds ----Original Message Follows---- From: "purpleveg" Reply-To: VeganMacrobiotics To: VeganMacrobiotics Subject: Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 17:01:48 -0000 Very important news, today X many years ago a very special person was born....................... HAPPY BIRTHDAY SONIA and many more and may they be filled with happiness and lots of gorgeous Jamaican men!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Love ya! Reggie Help stop spam and pop-ups in there tracks With MSN Premium Get 2 Months FREE*

[Guest guest]

Hey Reggie,

I think I was going through withdrawals, no emails from the group all morning! )

I know you are right about not going right from Bruce to Mike and that is not, nor has it ever been my plan. ( Good idea, right?) Mike knows this too. He really believes we are meant to be together, he is okay with me needing time to myself if/when Bruce and I break up. He said he believes so strongly in our being such a good match that he will let it run its course, if that means us being friends for a while he is alright with it. I too, believe that if we are truly meant to be together that after I have had my time to deal with the break up with Bruce and rediscover myself that Mike will be there. I trust that, so I don't feel the need to jump. And, if in the end, we do not wind up together I will still be so fulfilled with just our friendship. There have been very few things I have done in my life that have been just for me, right now, it is me I need to be worried about.

I think Mike's mom was on and off macro simply because it is easier (faster, more convenient?) to eat the SAD diet. She was a single mom raising 4 kids very close in age, she always had her hands full. Not an excuse, but certainly an easy way out of the work involved.

Sometimes it drives me wild to deal with people who will not research simply because of what they believe. I am an animal rights activist so I deal with that all the time. All those meat-eaters who deny what goes on in factory farms because they don't want to feel guilty. Don't worry, I know you are not being critical of Bruce.

I don't care for the situation I am currently in either but I know it's happening for a good reason. Since getting together with Bruce I have slowly lost my identity. When we began dating I knew who I was, what I wanted. Some things changed that were out of my control and I changed in the process. Then I kept changing and I don't know who I am anymore. When I meet new people I am introduced by Bruce as "my fiance" no name included, I have to throw that in. When his friends introduce us it is often "This is Bruce and his girlfriend/fiance." No name then either.I have become his property in some people's eyes, his included I believe. I know I need to be alone in order to find myself again but I guess I am afraid to leave him simply because we already have so much together. We own a home, have 2 dogs, we have invested almost 4 years together ( I'm sure that doesn't seem very long to some of you but this is my longest relationship to date.)

It is really wonderful that you and Bruce agree on so much, especially regarding your daughter. Despite not having any children of my own, I used to be a day care center teacher and an after school care counselor and I strongly believe that parents must agree on how they will raise their children. I have seen how the children suffer when they don't. Bruce does not see how important it is because he pretty much raised himself. He says "look, I turned out fine." Sure, he's a responsible adult now but I would never want my children to get into the kind of things he used to simply because of lack of parenting. He and I are from 2 different worlds, I always knew that but everything seemed as if it would work out anyway.

Sorry if I rambled, got lost in my thoughts there.

Glad you liked the kimpira. Hehe, I should have been more detailed, I had seaweed as a side dish with dinner last night. I also had noodles in broth, nishime and blanched salad. I was certainly not hungry after that!!

Mike had been seeing Denny Waxman in Philly the first year and a half since discovering hs tumor but money has been tight the last 6 months so he hasn't been back. He has seen Denny for each season so he has a food regimine in the healing phase for each. Did that make sense?

Talk to you soon!

The Purple one wrote:

Wow ,Sounds like you have your emotional hands tied pretty tight. That must besooooooo difficult for you to deal with especially with Mike's mom sayingthe same thing. She loves you and wants you to be part of their familymore than you are I guess.It's a tough one for sure. I mean if you really do love Bruce you shouldwork out your problems with diet now and value Mike's friendship and leaveit at that. I do not think that if you want to be with Mike you should doit tho. I know that may sound strange. I mean that if you want to partways with Bruce you should do it and be on your own rather than jumpingfrom one to another. That's my opinion doesn't mean you have to listen ofcourse.Wow so Mike has a brain tumor, no wonder he is so strict and really takingit seriously. Good for him and I do hope it's working. If his mom

foundMacro so intersting I wonder why she didn't stick with it thru the years. Shame she didn't know about it before getting pregnant with him right?I'm so sorry that Bruce is so stubborn on his beliefs. Isn't it funnywhen those who are so strong on their beliefs aren't willing to do anyresearch? I mean his belief on the vaccines (as most of America) is notbased on any research or anything just from following like a lemming whatthe mass believes and what drs have drilled in our heads since thediscovery of the vaccines. It's not funny really, it's so very sad andblinding. If he did extensive research and came to the conclusion on hisown (or anyone for that matter) I would understand it. But anyone who didan ounce of research, even just read what ingredients are in the vaccinesthey would see how obvious it is that they are dangerous to stick intoanyone. It really is ignorant to not even look it over. NO, I am NOTsaying anything

critical about Bruce, I hope you understand that. I justmean people with that opinion in general.I do not know what you can do or feel. What you are dealing with is avery diffucult issue that I wouldn't wish on myself. I know my Bruce has many problems (dont' we all?) I can say this becauseeven tho he's part of the group and gets the digests he never reads them,which upsets me but hey, we need to pick our battles right? I'd ratherhim spend time with our daughter than read my group stuff. But, I tellyou from experience that I would NOT want to have gone thru pregnancy,labor, birth, child rearing with someone other than Bruce or his ideals. He and I agree/ed on everything in that dept. I mean he loves that I usecloth diapers, even washed them himself. He agreed on how I ate duringpregnancy, what I took (iron wise suggested from the midwife, etc), whereI delivered (mom's jacuzzi) keeps bragging about how he was there helpingme in

the tub, taking pics and even cut the cord, how we sleep with her,how I am still nursing, how I want to home school her, how I will give herno vaccines, and how she eats, how I don't want her stuck in front of thetv. The list could continue for hours and I don't have the time to gointo everything but it is sooooooooooooo important because once there is achild involved EVERYTHING changes and I can't begin to explain theseverity of it. If anyone else here has a child they could maybe explainit better, I'm sure that can, if anyone...............The Kimpira was very good, thanks for the heads up. I just had some ofthe leftovers in my huge miso today.Seaweed? that's all you ate for dinner? I was told that you should onlyhave about 1-2 tablespoons a day of the stuff.Is Mike under the care of any counselors? I really think he should be.I am soaking some lotus root seeds with my wheat berries and rice fortonight. I am also

soaking Pinto beans. I have no clue what I'll do withthem. Bruce doesnt' like plain simple foods like just the grain/bean andveggie. I'd be perfectly happy eating them as such but he needs the bellswhistles, salt and tamari, really bothers me.If that's the worst thing.............. lolChat with you later and keep me posted!Reggie ChadwickThe animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for whites or women for men.- Alice The questions is not; Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?- Jeremey Bentham

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[Guest guest]

> Wow ,

> Sounds like you have your emotional hands tied pretty tight. That

must be

> sooooooo difficult for you to deal with especially with Mike's mom

saying

> the same thing. She loves you and wants you to be part of their

family

> more than you are I guess.

> It's a tough one for sure. I mean if you really do love Bruce you

should

> work out your problems with diet now and value Mike's friendship

and leave

> it at that. I do not think that if you want to be with Mike you

should do

> it tho. I know that may sound strange. I mean that if you want to

part

> ways with Bruce you should do it and be on your own rather than

jumping

> from one to another. That's my opinion doesn't mean you have to

listen of

> course.

> Wow so Mike has a brain tumor, no wonder he is so strict and really

taking

> it seriously. Good for him and I do hope it's working. If his mom

found

> Macro so intersting I wonder why she didn't stick with it thru the

years.

> Shame she didn't know about it before getting pregnant with him

right?

> I'm so sorry that Bruce is so stubborn on his beliefs. Isn't it

funny

> when those who are so strong on their beliefs aren't willing to do

any

> research? I mean his belief on the vaccines (as most of America) is

not

> based on any research or anything just from following like a

lemming what

> the mass believes and what drs have drilled in our heads since the

> discovery of the vaccines. It's not funny really, it's so very sad

and

> blinding. If he did extensive research and came to the conclusion

on his

> own (or anyone for that matter) I would understand it. But anyone

who did

> an ounce of research, even just read what ingredients are in the

vaccines

> they would see how obvious it is that they are dangerous to stick

into

> anyone. It really is ignorant to not even look it over. NO, I am NOT

> saying anything critical about Bruce, I hope you understand that. I

just

> mean people with that opinion in general.

> I do not know what you can do or feel. What you are dealing with is

a

> very diffucult issue that I wouldn't wish on myself.

> I know my Bruce has many problems (dont' we all?) I can say this

because

> even tho he's part of the group and gets the digests he never reads

them,

> which upsets me but hey, we need to pick our battles right? I'd

rather

> him spend time with our daughter than read my group stuff. But, I

tell

> you from experience that I would NOT want to have gone thru

pregnancy,

> labor, birth, child rearing with someone other than Bruce or his

ideals.

> He and I agree/ed on everything in that dept. I mean he loves that

I use

> cloth diapers, even washed them himself. He agreed on how I ate

during

> pregnancy, what I took (iron wise suggested from the midwife, etc),

where

> I delivered (mom's jacuzzi) keeps bragging about how he was there

helping

> me in the tub, taking pics and even cut the cord, how we sleep with

her,

> how I am still nursing, how I want to home school her, how I will

give her

> no vaccines, and how she eats, how I don't want her stuck in front

of the

> tv. The list could continue for hours and I don't have the time to

go

> into everything but it is sooooooooooooo important because once

there is a

> child involved EVERYTHING changes and I can't begin to explain the

> severity of it. If anyone else here has a child they could maybe

explain

> it better, I'm sure that can, if anyone...............

>

> The Kimpira was very good, thanks for the heads up. I just had some

of

> the leftovers in my huge miso today.

> Seaweed? that's all you ate for dinner? I was told that you should

only

> have about 1-2 tablespoons a day of the stuff.

> Is Mike under the care of any counselors? I really think he should

be.

> I am soaking some lotus root seeds with my wheat berries and rice

for

> tonight. I am also soaking Pinto beans. I have no clue what I'll do

with

> them. Bruce doesnt' like plain simple foods like just the

grain/bean and

> veggie. I'd be perfectly happy eating them as such but he needs the

bells

> whistles, salt and tamari, really bothers me.

> If that's the worst thing.............. lol

> Chat with you later and keep me posted!

> Reggie

>

>

> Chadwick

> The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not

made for humans any more than black people were made for whites or

women for men.

> - Alice

> The questions is not; Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can

they suffer?

> - Jeremey Bentham

>

> ---------------------------------

> Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly... " Ping " your friends

today! Download Messenger Now

[Guest guest]

Audreynj,

Even though I am glad that my sons [20s] are taking their time before

settling into marriage/children, I don't think that one box fits all.

I was prepared to father children at age 25 and the experience was

personally rewarding though my marriage wasn't all that. I learned

much and gained maturity as my offspring grew and continue to share a

comfortable relationship with them. I feel blessed continually by

their presence though I would have opted to adopt if my wife would

have agreed.

I wouldn't call a lover or helpmate an " accessory " and not a healthy

basis for a fofilling relationship unless it's merely physical. Some

people actually blossom in marriage situations though I don't think

it is for everyone.

I am someone who can take care of myself and know how to cook, clean,

and even patch my jeans but if the right person came along, I would

be open to another long term relationship. However, it is important

to define what you desire and need from life so I agree though

disagree with you. Cheers, *

, audreynj <jes@l...> wrote:

> Get a nice friend...travel...learn to cook...have a good time.....

>

> Men are great accessories and can make a wonderful life better, but

PLEASE they do not define your life!

[Guest guest]

I certainly agree that not "one box fits all." I have the example in my current relationship. My fiance is 23, ready to get married and looking to begin a family within the next few years. He has been ready for this for quite some time. I, on the other hand, am really still a kid. I was not looking for a lot of responsibility or even a long term committment but somehow that is exactly what I wound up with. I look back and ask myself "What were you thinking." All I knew was that I loved him and I guess I let him push what he wanted on to me to the point where I thought that was what I wanted too.

I too, do not consider a significant other an accessory. I don't need someone who will look good on my arm (that's what women carry purses for,) if I'm looking to share my life with someone they better be more than that. I can cook just enough to eat simple macro meals, I loathe cleaning, I can't sew or fix anything around the house but that doesn't mean I want/need someone around so those things get done. It just means they won't be done all that well and I'm okay with that.

I'm not really sure if I made a point here.

david wrote:

Audreynj,Even though I am glad that my sons [20s] are taking their time before settling into marriage/children, I don't think that one box fits all. I was prepared to father children at age 25 and the experience was personally rewarding though my marriage wasn't all that. I learned much and gained maturity as my offspring grew and continue to share a comfortable relationship with them. I feel blessed continually by their presence though I would have opted to adopt if my wife would have agreed.I wouldn't call a lover or helpmate an "accessory" and not a healthy basis for a fofilling relationship unless it's merely physical. Some people actually blossom in marriage situations though I don't think it is for everyone.I am someone who can take care of myself and know how to cook, clean, and even patch my jeans but if the right

person came along, I would be open to another long term relationship. However, it is important to define what you desire and need from life so I agree though disagree with you. Cheers, *, audreynj <jes@l...> wrote:> Get a nice friend...travel...learn to cook...have a good time.....> > Men are great accessories and can make a wonderful life better, but PLEASE they do not define your life! ChadwickThe animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for whites or women for men.- Alice The questions is not; Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?- Jeremey Bentham

Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now