Re: There's Nothing Like Family

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

>

>> Here's the saddest part of all. If either of my sister's called me

>> up in the future with a similar request for themselves or -- in the

>> case of my youngest sister -- for minor children, I would provide as

>> much information as I had access to in order to help.

>>

>> I suppose that makes me pathetic in some ways that I would be such a

>> soft touch.

>

>

> Why would the fact that your a decent person be sad? I agree that

> nobody should let others use them but in the case of medical

> necessity,

> picking someone's recollections for information is a need not a want.

> You live by a moral code, an ethical code, and in no way does this

> make

> you a smuck, just a very good person.

The only thing that's sad about being a decent person is the fact

that they are become rare enough to be a novelty in this society.

As an aside I don't trust my sister either. Far too much bad history

there where she used me as a scapegoat and other things.

I think I stopped trusting her when she made my mother put down her

dog because she and her husband and child were moving into my

mother's house.

My mother's dog had a history of a couple bites and my sister had two

other dogs already. They had to sell their house to get out of debt

so we moved out of my mothers house and they moved in.

Because my sister had dogs already and because my mother's dog had

bitten two people in I think it was 4 years she _demanded_ that my

mother put her dog down before they move in. (The dog had been

beaten by previous owners and was skittish but in recovery. The only

two times where it bit was once when my daughter startled it and

pulled on its fur badly and the other when I went to push it out of

the way when I was angry one day and it was eating. Other than those

two times it was completely a complacent Husky.)

In her defense she had a small child, my niece, but she was very very

cautious about how to behave around dogs. (She's smarter than her

mother in my opinion.)

Anyway she literally hammered on my mother until my mother had her

dog put down. As fate would have it my mother had no way to take the

dog to be cremated so I had to pick up the body and deliver it a few

miles away to the vet that cremates without charging you for the

privilege.

After analyzing the situation from all angles later on, and with some

further info from my sister, I rightly concluded that my sister

forced my mom to put the dog down so she wouldn't have to deal with

the hassle of her dogs and my mom's dog...in my mom's house. (If I'm

confusing about this please let me know I carry quite a bit of anger

in that area and it...muddles my thoughts when I discuss certain

events.)

To add insult to injury my sister then bought my mother's house but

only on the condition that she provide a $50,000 credit for repairs

out of the sale. This is now why my mother lives in a trailer in

upper Wisconsin when she should have been living in a log cabin in

upper Wisconsin. (The house was a 1950's cape cod style house and

didn't need that much repair.)

So while I do still speak to my sister and do still do things for my

sister on occasion I never ever trust her. And my wife is learning

that too. My sister has offered repeatedly to come over and help

unpack boxes but has not once shown up though she will apologize later.

--

Mike

MARS NEEDS CHOCOS! - Martian Manhunter

[Guest guest]

>I have now utterly and completely lost faith in humanity.

" It boggles the mind but please don't lump all of humanity together. "

Why not?

Maybe yuou haven't noticed this, but the main secret society website

keeps going on and offline. Yahoo says it has been hacked deliberately.

Who would do that when all the rest of this stuff is going on? Hmmm?

Administrator

[Guest guest]

>

>

>> I have now utterly and completely lost faith in humanity.

>

> " It boggles the mind but please don't lump all of humanity together. "

>

> Why not?

>

> Maybe yuou haven't noticed this, but the main secret society website

> keeps going on and offline. Yahoo says it has been hacked

> deliberately.

> Who would do that when all the rest of this stuff is going on? Hmmm?

Just from a different perspective here I would likely discount what

Yahoo is telling you.

After 17+ years in the I/T field and dealing with all manner of

companies it's long become standard policy to _never_ own up to one's

mistakes.

More likely one of two things are happening with the website:

a) Yahoo is performing maintenance behind the scenes and not telling

anybody - an alternate answer is that they are _not_ doing

maintenance and the site is located on a flakey server in Yahoo's

server farm. You're only seeing your site go down but it's likely

affecting others as well.

Because the website says " Secret Society " on it they are taking

snapshots for DHS or some other gooberment agency. (Yes that was a

deliberate misspelling.)

I personally vote for the first as Yahoo has never struck me as a

particularly stable company from a technology standpoint. What was

the old saying? " Never attribute to greed and malice what can be

accounted for by human stupidity? "

Regardless I doubt it's a deliberate hack. The next time Yahoo says

that demand a copy of the logs proving it was an attack so that you

can investigate and file legal proceedings against the attacker. See

what they say. I'm betting they either will be unable to provide the

logs or say " We've already handled it sir. " . Nickel bet?

There's a 1% chance that this post will get " lost in transit " . ;-)

--

Mike

MARS NEEDS CHOCOS! - Martian Manhunter

[Guest guest]

> Wills. They tear more families apart than just about anything. My

> lawyer has told me countless stories about wars over wills and then

> fighting over control of what was left. He's told me stories about

> families that left parts of land to different siblings and the sibs

> almost always fight over how that land is going to be used, sold or

> whatever. Houses have fallen into neglect because those who

> inherited it can't agree on what to do with it.

My grandmother did at least part of it right. She gave away anything

that people wanted as she got older and stipulated that the property

and house would not be sold to a relative and the money divided among

the remaining 7 children or their heirs. For the most part it worked

out.

Didn't stop my one aunt and her magpie daughters from going through

my grandmother's things before she was in the ground though. B-(

> Fortunately, I was an only child and my uncle had no children, so

> there wasn't any of that. That is also why I bought my father's

> share of his mother's house, so I could have complete control over

> it, and also to make sure that he wouldn't be able to move back

> down there one day and make a nuisance of himself.

That's lucky for you. I've made provisions that other than my

computer equipment all my things belong to my wife or are to be sold

when I die. It seems only practical. I only have a few other things

that are specifically destined for certain people.

--

Mike

MARS NEEDS CHOCOS! - Martian Manhunter

[Guest guest]

Mike wrot: " The only thing that's sad about being a decent person is

the fact that they are become rare enough to be a novelty in this

society ... <snip> ... "

Wow, Mike. I read your post and thought, " Maybe there's a school that

some siblings go to where they learn to put their wants over other

people's needs and rights. " If there is, I think my sister attended

and graduated top of the class and your sister may have monitored some

of their courses. :-o

I'm sorry to hear your mom is living in a trailer instead of a cabin

like she should be.

It breaks my heart to read stories like the one you posted. How can

people be so cruel just for the sake of getting what they want?

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

wrote: " Bear in mind the other site that I moderate has been

hacked completely off the net twice. The last time we even lost the

member list. A few have been found but there hasn't been a post there

in over a month. "

And that makes me ask this question: Why would someone deliberately

hurt another just because they can?

Surely if someone is dissatisfied with a site or does not like

something or someone on the site, dissatisfaction can be voiced in ways

other than this?

But NO, there are people in this world who think that destruction and

obliteration is the way to go.

I will never understand that way of thinking.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

Mike wrote: " ... <snip> ... There's a 1% chance that this post will

get " lost in transit " . ;-) "

Excellent post, Mike. Thanks.

And yes, sometimes the posts don't show up as they are supposed to as

evidenced by the periods over the last little while where posts have

been made and then get stuck somewhere in cyberspace.

This has improved since 2 or 3 weeks ago. That being said, it could

start happening again out of the blue any minute now ...

Raven

[Guest guest]

wrote: " Wills. They tear more families apart than just about

anything. My lawyer has told me countless stories about wars over

wills and then fighting over control of what was left. He's told me

stories about families that left parts of land to different siblings

and the sibs almost always fight over how that land is going to be

used, sold or whatever. Houses have fallen into neglect because those

who inherited it can't agree on what to do with it.

Fortunately, I was an only child and my uncle had no children, so

there wasn't any of that. That is also why I bought my father's share

of his mother's house, so I could have complete control over it, and

also to make sure that he wouldn't be able to move back down there

one day and make a nuisance of himself. "

Cub is an only child. I will not have another child in the future as

I believe an individual should only have as many children as he or

she is able to invest in properly -- time, finances, effort, et al.

My ability is one and so I only have Cub.

And I can believe it when you say that wars of wills over wills is

the cause of a great amount of legal wrangling where lawyers are

almost always the only ones who stand to gain anything from the

wrangling.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

" I agree that nobody should let others use them but in the case of

medical necessity, picking someone's recollections for information is

a need not a want. You live by a moral code, an ethical code, and in

no way does this make you a smuck, just a very good person. "

Well, here is what is going to happen.

You see, under the national healthcare system in Canada, which is

identical to the ones Hillary and Obama are proposing, people really

do not have a right to privacy regarding their medical records. If

you are a woman, would YOU want anyone in the government knowing your

private medical history? STDs, missed periods, your sexual history.

Your abortions? Would you want them to be able to use it for any

purpose they choose?

They can and they will.

Something to consider, and most Americans aren't doing it as they go

into the next election. All they hear is FREE HEALTHCARE! And because

most democrats demographically speaking are the least educated and

therefore least intelligent -and also the majority- of all registered

voters, it is unlikely they willrealize the muddle they are getting

us all into.

But I digress:

While it is customary to ask for permission to acquire the records

first, the government can and will confiscate them and use them when

they need them, such as in circumstances like this.

The thing is, it needs to be discovered who Raven's brother's

neurologist was to expedite the search, otherwise the government

might have to pour through warehouses of materials to find what they

are looking for and Cub may not have the time for that.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

Huge hug, and prayers for reconciliation between you and your sister,

Raven.

Is you mom able to provide you the information?

[Guest guest]

" One member will deliberately make a demand to irritate another, then

that one will retaliate, and so it goes. Other times they just won't

talk to each other or sign paperwork. The end result is the same. "

Has anyone every noticed that the ones who cause the most problems

where wills are concerned are usually the foul-mouthed ones? Or the

family drunk? Or the family druggie? Or the family crook? Or the family

Section-8 millitary discharge? Or the family jerk?

These family members are the ones that laugh the hardest and drink the

most at parties. They are back-patters and belly-laughers... Until a

death comes up, and then they are mean.

My mom's dad died when she was 13. Her mom re-married and when that

happened, grandma told her new husband that the house she was living in

was bought and paid for by her first husband, and that when she died,

he could live there, but when HE died, the house was to be sold and

divided among the remaining original kids and NOT his step kids, since

this would have been against the wishes of the original husband.

Additionally, a provision was made that if he got remarried or moved

for any reason, the kids could sell the house immediately.

This new husband brought a bunch of step-kids into the family, and

these kids were appraised of the disposition of the house long before

either one of the parents died and were repeatedly appraised of the

situation throughout the more than 25 years that my grandma and step-

granda were together.

As the years went by, kids and step-kids got along really well. Sure, a

couple of the step kids got picked up for shoplifting now and then, or

public drunkenness. And sure, one beheaded himself and three other

people when he got drunk and smashed his powerboat into a dock at

night. But for the most part, my mom and her sisters, and their step-

sisters and step-brothers got along A-OK...especially at parties when

they were all drinking and high.

Well, gradma died. But my stepgrandpa was of course still allowed to

live in the house.

My stepgrandfather soon became mentally incapacitated however and it

was agreed by kids and step kids alike that he go to a retirement

facility and, shortly after that, a nursing home. His situation

deteriorated to the point where it was determined that he would not be

able to live alone, so the kids put the house up for sale as was their

right.

The first thing the step-kids did when they heard the house was going

to be put up for sale was barge into the house unannounced and go

through the house and take anything and everything they wanted. We

found this out when my aunt went over to check on the house, as she did

once or twice every week while grandpa was in the nursing home. My aunt

found the place ransacked. She had thought it had been robbed. Stuff

was strewn all over the house. Valuable objects which hid their value

under their guady appearance had been smashed in corners. Things that

had been carefully and securely attached to walls had been ripped out

of it, leaving gaping holes and wrecked plaster.

The step-kids then all banded toghether and threatened to sue for their

portion on the house.

It was in grandma's will that the house go to the original kids, not

the step kids, and it wass in step-grandfather's will that he

acknowledged this fact.

But of course the step kids wanted what was " theirs. " But they gave it

up, primarily because they had made themselves so poor through booze,

drugs and lottery tickets over the years that they couln't put any

money together to hire a lawyer. We know they could not get organizaed

as a unit at any rate, because they began to squabble amongst

themselves about who should get what portion of the house, because some

had taken more care than others of step-grandpa before his passing.

At any rate, the house was sold, the assets divinded among the original

children, not the step-children, and they have never spoken to any of

the original children since except to badmouth my grandmother once in

the presence of my uncle, who nearly decked one of his step-brothers-

in-law.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" Is you mom able to provide you the information? "

Her mother lives with her sister and her sister will not let her mother

answer the phone.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

P.S. A long time ago, if I am not mistaken, Raven's mom expressed the

sentiment that her son die anyway, so it is doubtful that her mom

would help out now.

Money causes some people to act this way. The more they want it, the

less they value what they have. This is why I hate the way Democrats

think.

Administrator

" Is you mom able to provide you the information? "

Her mother lives with her sister and her sister will not let her

mother

answer the phone.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

wrote: " ... <snip> ... Is you mom able to provide you the

information? ... <snip> ... "

That's the problem. My mother lives with my sister in my sister's home

and my sister is keeping me from connecting with my mother. Because my

mother is the only one who can provide me with the name of the

neurologist who followed my brother's case 40 years ago, if my sister

continues to prevent me from accessing my mother, there is no way I can

get the neurologist's name.

With the neurologist's name, the government can -- because my brother

is deceased and the information is required for health reasons of a

related family member -- quickly and effective access the archived

medical files.

Without the neurologist's name, the process will take considerably

longer ... and we're not just talking a few days longer either.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

> Why not?

Well because I and other compassionate people are still in it?? I just

loathe lumping everyone together and partly because the amount of people

who I actually know, read about etc.. is a very small fraction of the

entire population. But who am I to tell you what to do? Go ahead and

hate away.

> Maybe yuou haven't noticed this, but the main secret society website

> keeps going on and offline.

No I didn't. Was out of town last week and due to obligations was

unable to get back here until yesterday.

>Yahoo says it has been hacked deliberately.

> Who would do that when all the rest of this stuff is going on? Hmmm?

I haven't a clue.

Kim

[Guest guest]

>

> " Is you mom able to provide you the information? "

>

> Her mother lives with her sister and her sister will not let her

mother

> answer the phone.

What about a certified letter, one that must be signed only by the

addressee? This was what we had to do in order to get our next door

neighbor to move their fence off of our property, they ignored all other

letters. Something legal looking perhaps?

Kim

[Guest guest]

" What about a certified letter, one that must be signed only by the

addressee? This was what we had to do in order to get our next door

neighbor to move their fence off of our property, they ignored all other

letters. Something legal looking perhaps? "

We are taking certain steps, but cannot reveal them at the moment.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

asked: " Why not? "

Kim responded: " Well because I and other compassionate people are

still in it?? I just loathe lumping everyone together and partly

because the amount of people who I actually know, read about etc ...

is a very small fraction of the entire population. But who am I to

tell you what to do? Go ahead and hate away. "

Kim, you are correct. I generally do not like generalizations (LOL)

but occasionally, in an emotional moment, I have been known to

generalize. Once the explosion has settled, I go back and apologize

for the generalization.

I believe that is having a similar experience and as such, his

generalizations are not absolutes but rather expressions of extreme

frustration overall.

However, you are correct. Generalizations are dangerous.

Raven

Co-Adminsitrator

[Guest guest]

asked: " Why not? "

Kim responded: " Well because I and other compassionate people are

still in it?? I just loathe lumping everyone together and partly

because the amount of people who I actually know, read about etc ...

is a very small fraction of the entire population. But who am I to

tell you what to do? Go ahead and hate away. "

Kim, you are correct. I generally do not like generalizations (LOL)

but occasionally, in an emotional moment, I have been known to

generalize. Once the explosion has settled, I go back and apologize

for the generalization.

I believe that is having a similar experience and as such, his

generalizations are not absolutes but rather expressions of extreme

frustration overall.

However, you are correct. Generalizations are dangerous.

Raven

Co-Adminsitrator

[Guest guest]

Kim suggested: " What about a certified letter, one that must be signed

only by the addressee? ... <snip> ... "

While it's a good idea and one that I considered yesterday the problem

with it is that if my sister won't let my mother answer the phone, she

can also intercept mail ... even registered mail or certified mail.

My thinking cap is firmly positioned on my head, Kim, and I'm trying to

get a clear transmission that will answer my question as to how I will

access my mother to get that one piece of information the doctors need.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

Kim suggested: " What about a certified letter, one that must be signed

only by the addressee? ... <snip> ... "

While it's a good idea and one that I considered yesterday the problem

with it is that if my sister won't let my mother answer the phone, she

can also intercept mail ... even registered mail or certified mail.

My thinking cap is firmly positioned on my head, Kim, and I'm trying to

get a clear transmission that will answer my question as to how I will

access my mother to get that one piece of information the doctors need.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

>I'm trying to

> get a clear transmission that will answer my question as to how I will

> access my mother to get that one piece of information the doctors

need.

Wonder if we all sent a telepathic message she'd have the urge to call

you. Stranger things have happened. But seriously, if I could think of

another way I'll let you know.

Kim

[Guest guest]

>I'm trying to

> get a clear transmission that will answer my question as to how I will

> access my mother to get that one piece of information the doctors

need.

Wonder if we all sent a telepathic message she'd have the urge to call

you. Stranger things have happened. But seriously, if I could think of

another way I'll let you know.

Kim

[Guest guest]

Raven and Tom...I wish there was something I could say to take the

hurt away. I cannot imagine anything more cruel that one human being

could do to another than to deny them information that can help their

child. No AS would ever do such a thing because in addition to being

inhuman, it's illogical. How does a fight you have with a parent

translate into hurting their child? As I've written before (in the

Fam Forum I think) NTs have " social empathy, " that is, for the most

part they say the right things in public. Most lack true

empathy...the ability to really understand/care about another's

feelings. It's one of the reasons that I've always said that words

mean nothing; it's actions that count. PLEASE don't hesitate to

contact Marsha and I if there is anything we can do. Louise " Raven, I am shocked that your sister is being so

cruel

> to you and especially Cub. I've been meaning to say something about

> your situation with Cub, but I'm not real good with relationships,

> and didn't feel like I had anything worthwhile or helpful to say.

> However, I have a heart, and children, and I've tried to empathize

> with you and it scares me witless. If I could do something to help

> Cub, I would. If Cub were my nephew, I would gladly look up info,

> donate blood, offer a bone marrow transplant or walk over hot

coals.

> I don't understand your sister....and they say Aspies can't

empathize

> and NTs are good at it? "

>

> Thank you, Victor. asked me last night what I would do if

the

> situation was reversed and it was my sister calling me for

> information.

>

> It was easy to answer in my opinion. There is clearly a huge

> difference between what a person wants and what a person needs and

in

> the case of medical assistance, that is a NEED and therefore

> information should not be denied or withheld whether it's for the

> person making the request or for a minor child or an incapacitated

> adult.

>

> I am still shell shocked at the response I got from my sister.

>

> Raven

> Co-Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

Shortly after Marsha and I got together (when was around 2

years old) her brother (very religious...Orthodox Jewish man) told

Marsha he didn't understand what her needs were around . He

also let her know that he didn't believe was as sick as she was

saying. She sent him reports written from the doctors, with

devestating words regarding 's profound mental retardation,

quadraparesis, etc. His response was " That's very informative...Now

I still don't understand what your needs are. " It was at that point

that she came out to him; and the relationship ended (until she

learned he was dying from lymphoma 9 years later...at which time

Marsha contacted him!!) Can you imagine learning your nephew is very

ill; will never walk, talk, comprehend human language, etc. and then

saying " That's informative? " I've never understood his inability to

be empathic. The thing that's always really gotten to me is that

Judiasm stresses one's relationship with others in this life; we

don't focus on an afterlife. If he was so religious, how could he

desert his sister in her time of need? I guess he also went to the

same school as Raven's and Mike's sisters .

>

> Mike wrot: " The only thing that's sad about being a decent person

is

> the fact that they are become rare enough to be a novelty in this

> society ... <snip> ... "

>

> Wow, Mike. I read your post and thought, " Maybe there's a school

that

> some siblings go to where they learn to put their wants over other

> people's needs and rights. " If there is, I think my sister

attended

> and graduated top of the class and your sister may have monitored

some

> of their courses. :-o

>

> I'm sorry to hear your mom is living in a trailer instead of a

cabin

> like she should be.

>

> It breaks my heart to read stories like the one you posted. How

can

> people be so cruel just for the sake of getting what they want?

>

> Raven

> Co-Administrator

>