Re: There's Nothing Like Family

[Guest guest]

For the record, I witnessed the call that Raven describes below and

can contest to its factual accounting.

My purpose in posting was initially going to be to launch into a

lengthy diatribe of every similar situation I have encountered and

then a philosphical commentary on why it is I have not yet met an

Aspie who acts this way.

I don't see the sense. I am really beyond words. It just amazes me

that people can behave this way. Online, I see similar behavior in

other forums among the parents of Aspies and for a while, I had a

hard time believing that what I was seeing wasn't some orchestration,

as though I was turning on a TV rather than a computer and entering a

fictional program rather than a real parenting forum.

There have been times when people have given me similar stories about

things like this, but I have been inclined to disbelive them. But not

anymore. I have now utterly and completely lost faith in humanity.

Administrator

Instead, my sister with whom my mother is living advised me that:

1) she has no sister by my name;

2) she only has one sister (this would be the youngest in the family

btw);

3) there have been great medical advancements so the information the

doctors feel is imperative to access is not required (I didn't

realize she has information that escapes experts at Sick Kids'

Hospital in Toronto);

4) our mother is not living with her (trust me, I know our mother is

living with my sister); and

5) she doesn't really care what happens to Cub.

What is it with NTs that this is how they treat people they hate ...

to hurt an innocent child they could actually help?

[Guest guest]

For the record, I witnessed the call that Raven describes below and

can contest to its factual accounting.

My purpose in posting was initially going to be to launch into a

lengthy diatribe of every similar situation I have encountered and

then a philosphical commentary on why it is I have not yet met an

Aspie who acts this way.

I don't see the sense. I am really beyond words. It just amazes me

that people can behave this way. Online, I see similar behavior in

other forums among the parents of Aspies and for a while, I had a

hard time believing that what I was seeing wasn't some orchestration,

as though I was turning on a TV rather than a computer and entering a

fictional program rather than a real parenting forum.

There have been times when people have given me similar stories about

things like this, but I have been inclined to disbelive them. But not

anymore. I have now utterly and completely lost faith in humanity.

Administrator

Instead, my sister with whom my mother is living advised me that:

1) she has no sister by my name;

2) she only has one sister (this would be the youngest in the family

btw);

3) there have been great medical advancements so the information the

doctors feel is imperative to access is not required (I didn't

realize she has information that escapes experts at Sick Kids'

Hospital in Toronto);

4) our mother is not living with her (trust me, I know our mother is

living with my sister); and

5) she doesn't really care what happens to Cub.

What is it with NTs that this is how they treat people they hate ...

to hurt an innocent child they could actually help?

[Guest guest]

Raven,

I am shocked that your sister is being so cruel to you and especially

Cub. I've been meaning to say something about your situation with

Cub, but I'm not real good with relationships, and didn't feel like I

had anything worthwhile or helpful to say. However, I have a heart,

and children, and I've tried to empathize with you and it scares me

witless. If I could do something to help Cub, I would. If Cub were my

nephew, I would gladly look up info, donate blood, offer a bone

marrow transplant or walk over hot coals. I don't understand your

sister....and they say Aspies can't empathize and NTs are good at it?

>

> So tonight, I contacted my sister with whom my mother lives.

>

> It would help Cub if I could get the name of the neurologist that

> treated my brother for the same disorder my son has recently been

> diagnosed with. Of course, some of you here will say that I should

> just phone my brother but I can't because he's passed away quite

some

> time ago.

>

> This leaves me with my mother to provide not only the name of the

> neurologist but to assist me with leads to access my brother's old

> medical files as they pertain to this diagnosis.

>

> Instead, my sister with whom my mother is living advised me that:

>

> 1) she has no sister by my name;

> 2) she only has one sister (this would be the youngest in the

family

> btw);

> 3) there have been great medical advancements so the information

the

> doctors feel is imperative to access is not required (I didn't

> realize she has information that escapes experts at Sick Kids'

> Hospital in Toronto);

> 4) our mother is not living with her (trust me, I know our mother

is

> living with my sister); and

> 5) she doesn't really care what happens to Cub.

>

> What is it with NTs that this is how they treat people they

hate ...

> to hurt an innocent child they could actually help?

>

> And then I think back to my childhood and I realize that what

> happened on the phone tonight is no different than the life I lived

> albeit it was a much shorter episode than living years and years

and

> years under this sort of abusive interaction from my parents and

> siblings.

>

> So there you have it, people. My own sister who just happens to be

> NT has no problem lying about who her sister is even when it means

> that she could be harming -- and possibly killing -- a child who

> never did anything bad towards her.

>

> Nice. Yeah, there's nothing like family ... that's for sure.

>

> NOT!

>

>

> Raven

>

[Guest guest]

Raven,

I am shocked that your sister is being so cruel to you and especially

Cub. I've been meaning to say something about your situation with

Cub, but I'm not real good with relationships, and didn't feel like I

had anything worthwhile or helpful to say. However, I have a heart,

and children, and I've tried to empathize with you and it scares me

witless. If I could do something to help Cub, I would. If Cub were my

nephew, I would gladly look up info, donate blood, offer a bone

marrow transplant or walk over hot coals. I don't understand your

sister....and they say Aspies can't empathize and NTs are good at it?

>

> So tonight, I contacted my sister with whom my mother lives.

>

> It would help Cub if I could get the name of the neurologist that

> treated my brother for the same disorder my son has recently been

> diagnosed with. Of course, some of you here will say that I should

> just phone my brother but I can't because he's passed away quite

some

> time ago.

>

> This leaves me with my mother to provide not only the name of the

> neurologist but to assist me with leads to access my brother's old

> medical files as they pertain to this diagnosis.

>

> Instead, my sister with whom my mother is living advised me that:

>

> 1) she has no sister by my name;

> 2) she only has one sister (this would be the youngest in the

family

> btw);

> 3) there have been great medical advancements so the information

the

> doctors feel is imperative to access is not required (I didn't

> realize she has information that escapes experts at Sick Kids'

> Hospital in Toronto);

> 4) our mother is not living with her (trust me, I know our mother

is

> living with my sister); and

> 5) she doesn't really care what happens to Cub.

>

> What is it with NTs that this is how they treat people they

hate ...

> to hurt an innocent child they could actually help?

>

> And then I think back to my childhood and I realize that what

> happened on the phone tonight is no different than the life I lived

> albeit it was a much shorter episode than living years and years

and

> years under this sort of abusive interaction from my parents and

> siblings.

>

> So there you have it, people. My own sister who just happens to be

> NT has no problem lying about who her sister is even when it means

> that she could be harming -- and possibly killing -- a child who

> never did anything bad towards her.

>

> Nice. Yeah, there's nothing like family ... that's for sure.

>

> NOT!

>

>

> Raven

>

[Guest guest]

This is bad, but not really surprising. A few examples.

My father didn't speak to his brother was years and years. Many issues behind that, but mostly that my father wanted to sell the family business and the land and buy unproductive land in a very expensive part of Virginia (by unproductive I mean land that would not generate an income, though he did look into a horse farm at one time, but there is no way on earth he could have made a go of that). Even when my uncle was nearly dead he wouldn't even call him. When his brother finally died, my father was actually glad, using a string of expletives to describe the man. Of course, he really got mad when he found out he only had a small portion in the will, something left over from his mother's estate (which I later bought from him). Silly idiot actually told me he was going to contest the will and ranted about it, when I was the prime beneficiary.

An aunt of mine stopped giving Christmas presents a couple of years ago because people weren't giving her gifts she considered were of equal value. Never mind that some of those people were elderly and on social security.

Well, there are plenty of others from my own family and from others that I know of, some from business relations too. People can be truly amazing.

As for myself, if someone I dislike called for help for themselves, I'd probably say no. But in your situation, Raven, there is no excuse not to help. That's taking things rather too far. Sad to say, but she probably feels empowered somehow and may even be enjoying the situation. I can remember my own father gloating over his brother's poor health. Small wonder that I haven't talked to him in a few years either.

So tonight, I contacted my sister with whom my mother lives. Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

Bear in mind the other site that I moderate has been hacked completely off the net twice. The last time we even lost the member list. A few have been found but there hasn't been a post there in over a month.

In a message dated 5/14/2008 10:43:59 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes:

Maybe yuou haven't noticed this, but the main secret society website keeps going on and offline. Yahoo says it has been hacked deliberately. Who would do that when all the rest of this stuff is going on? Hmmm?AdministratorWondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

Wills. They tear more families apart than just about anything. My lawyer has told me countless stories about wars over wills and then fighting over control of what was left. He's told me stories about families that left parts of land to different siblings and the sibs almost always fight over how that land is going to be used, sold or whatever. Houses have fallen into neglect because those who inherited it can't agree on what to do with it.

Fortunately, I was an only child and my uncle had no children, so there wasn't any of that. That is also why I bought my father's share of his mother's house, so I could have complete control over it, and also to make sure that he wouldn't be able to move back down there one day and make a nuisance of himself.

My sister's most recent anger towards me stems from the fact that I was the executrice of our father's estate (our parents having separated in 2002 after more than 50 years of marriage). Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

I second that. I'll even say that a lot of the people who publicly do "good" like the celebrities and politicians but also many others, only do it for the publicity and the false good will they will generate from the public. A good example are some of those aid concerts or the ones on Earth Day. Virtually all of the celebs performing on Earth Day and those other gigs got paid, often a lot. That's not charity, its a job. If they had really done it for charity, they would have let their "pay" go to the charity. But what to those attention hounds care? They got their face on TV and a bit of cash. Besides, they know most people won't do the research and don't even care about the cause, they just want a concert.

The only thing that's sad about being a decent person is the fact that they are become rare enough to be a novelty in this society.Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

That was smart. When my maternal grandmother died, the family up there, meaning her son his wife and child, descended on the house like vultures and scooped up everything they wanted. Some items left to my mother in the will vanished.

I understand about how you have yours set up. My will is basically set up to have the proceeds from the land keep the place up and do some charitable work and maybe expand a little, but it also has a provision that I am to be buried with a few things. Personally I would like a big in ground vault and be buried with most of my books and stuff too, but the land is a bit too damp for that and even if I had it all hermetically sealed, it probably wouldn't last that long.

My grandmother did at least part of it right. She gave away anything that people wanted as she got older and stipulated that the property and house would not be sold to a relative and the money divided among the remaining 7 children or their heirs. For the most part it worked out.Didn't stop my one aunt and her magpie daughters from going through my grandmother's things before she was in the ground though. B-(Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

I have wondered that too. No telling who did it and there is probably no way to find out. Even if we did, there really isn't anything to do about it.

And that makes me ask this question: Why would someone deliberately hurt another just because they can?Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

I agree with you there.

As far as the wills go, I'm sure that some lawyers gladly profit from all of this. Mine, however, hates to see things like that. Still, a lot of the time it is all driven by animosity within the family. One member will deliberately make a demand to irritate another, then that one will retaliate, and so it goes. Other times they just won't talk to each other or sign paperwork. The end result is the same.

Cub is an only child. I will not have another child in the future as I believe an individual should only have as many children as he or she is able to invest in properly -- time, finances, effort, et al. My ability is one and so I only have Cub.And I can believe it when you say that wars of wills over wills is the cause of a great amount of legal wrangling where lawyers are almost always the only ones who stand to gain anything from the wrangling.RavenCo-AdministratorWondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

> So there you have it, people. My own sister who just happens to be

> NT has no problem lying about who her sister is even when it means

> that she could be harming -- and possibly killing -- a child who

> never did anything bad towards her.

>

> Nice. Yeah, there's nothing like family ... that's for sure.

>

> NOT!

I keep shaking my head thinking, wondering why old grudges could take

precedence over the welfare of her nephew. How could she act in such a

vacuous manner? I have heard the phrase, " In my eyes your dead. " but to

ignore the importance of passing along pertinent information is beyond

cruel!

Raven, my heart goes out to both yourself and Cub. This phone call must

have been terribly difficult to make and has only added insult to

injury. Would your Mother condone the actions of your sister if she

knew what transpired? Or do you think she does know about you reaching

out in an attempt to do everything possible to save Cub? If your sister

has a conscious, I hope she is plauged for the rest of her life by her

misdeed.

Kim

[Guest guest]

> So there you have it, people. My own sister who just happens to be

> NT has no problem lying about who her sister is even when it means

> that she could be harming -- and possibly killing -- a child who

> never did anything bad towards her.

>

> Nice. Yeah, there's nothing like family ... that's for sure.

>

> NOT!

I keep shaking my head thinking, wondering why old grudges could take

precedence over the welfare of her nephew. How could she act in such a

vacuous manner? I have heard the phrase, " In my eyes your dead. " but to

ignore the importance of passing along pertinent information is beyond

cruel!

Raven, my heart goes out to both yourself and Cub. This phone call must

have been terribly difficult to make and has only added insult to

injury. Would your Mother condone the actions of your sister if she

knew what transpired? Or do you think she does know about you reaching

out in an attempt to do everything possible to save Cub? If your sister

has a conscious, I hope she is plauged for the rest of her life by her

misdeed.

Kim

[Guest guest]

Yes, I've noticed. There weren't many jerks in my family, mostly because my mother was around 40 when she had me so most of the family on both sides is dead or close to it now. There are some cousins and such, but they are busy with their own families, so I have nothing to do with them anymore. Not out of malice understand, but we have simply gone our own ways.

What I did see was that after my uncle died, several family members came after me wanting stuff. One wanted my uncle's train memorabilia for the railroad museum he worked with. Another wanted pews from the church for the pavilion where we have the family reunion to replace some of the benches that have been weathered down.

Now, both of these men asked me like they were entitled to what they wanted and like I wouldn't say no. I could also see in their eyes that they didn't think much of me or respect me, mostly because I was shorter and younger than them. I told the railroad museum guy a straight out no. He tried to bully me about it and I told him no again, and added that if anything turned up missing, the police would be paying him and his museum a visit before anyone else and I would press charges if anything was found at either location. The other guy gave me this look about the pews like "You live in Virginia so I can go get them while you're gone." I told my lawyer about it and for them to keep an eye on that, and if any pews were moved to haul that guy right back down there and put them back where they belong.

For some odd reason, those fellows have never spoken to me again, and I've never seen the Railroad guy at another reunion. Then again, none of my uncle's stuff has gone missing either.

PS: I did make a donation to the Cemetery Association to buy or build new benches and to help pave a part of the floor in the pavilion that was still dirt.

In a message dated 5/14/2008 12:05:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes:

Has anyone every noticed that the ones who cause the most problems where wills are concerned are usually the foul-mouthed ones? Or the family drunk? Or the family druggie? Or the family crook? Or the family Section-8 millitary discharge? Or the family jerk?Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

>I have now utterly and completely lost faith in humanity.

It boggles the mind but please don't lump all of humanity together.

Kim

[Guest guest]

>I have now utterly and completely lost faith in humanity.

It boggles the mind but please don't lump all of humanity together.

Kim

[Guest guest]

Victor wrote: " Raven, I am shocked that your sister is being so cruel

to you and especially Cub. I've been meaning to say something about

your situation with Cub, but I'm not real good with relationships,

and didn't feel like I had anything worthwhile or helpful to say.

However, I have a heart, and children, and I've tried to empathize

with you and it scares me witless. If I could do something to help

Cub, I would. If Cub were my nephew, I would gladly look up info,

donate blood, offer a bone marrow transplant or walk over hot coals.

I don't understand your sister....and they say Aspies can't empathize

and NTs are good at it? "

Thank you, Victor. asked me last night what I would do if the

situation was reversed and it was my sister calling me for

information.

It was easy to answer in my opinion. There is clearly a huge

difference between what a person wants and what a person needs and in

the case of medical assistance, that is a NEED and therefore

information should not be denied or withheld whether it's for the

person making the request or for a minor child or an incapacitated

adult.

I am still shell shocked at the response I got from my sister.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

Victor wrote: " Raven, I am shocked that your sister is being so cruel

to you and especially Cub. I've been meaning to say something about

your situation with Cub, but I'm not real good with relationships,

and didn't feel like I had anything worthwhile or helpful to say.

However, I have a heart, and children, and I've tried to empathize

with you and it scares me witless. If I could do something to help

Cub, I would. If Cub were my nephew, I would gladly look up info,

donate blood, offer a bone marrow transplant or walk over hot coals.

I don't understand your sister....and they say Aspies can't empathize

and NTs are good at it? "

Thank you, Victor. asked me last night what I would do if the

situation was reversed and it was my sister calling me for

information.

It was easy to answer in my opinion. There is clearly a huge

difference between what a person wants and what a person needs and in

the case of medical assistance, that is a NEED and therefore

information should not be denied or withheld whether it's for the

person making the request or for a minor child or an incapacitated

adult.

I am still shell shocked at the response I got from my sister.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

Kim wrote: " I keep shaking my head thinking, wondering why old

grudges could take precedence over the welfare of her nephew. How

could she act in such a vacuous manner? I have heard the phrase, " In

my eyes your dead. " but to ignore the importance of passing along

pertinent information is beyond cruel! "

Thank you for your post, Kim. Yes, her actions are beyond cruel and

border on the sociopath(et)ic as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't

even dream of withholding any health information from her if she

herself was in need.

Kim wrote: " Raven, my heart goes out to both yourself and Cub. This

phone call must have been terribly difficult to make and has only

added insult to injury. Would your Mother condone the actions of your

sister if she knew what transpired? Or do you think she does know

about you reaching out in an attempt to do everything possible to

save Cub? If your sister has a conscious, I hope she is plauged for

the rest of her life by her misdeed. "

I realized last night that my sister is without a doubt the most self-

centered person I have ever known. It's all about her and her

feelings and everyone else can suffer until she exacts her

revenge ... even if it's at the expense of a child's life.

Unless I can get past my sister, my mother will never know why I need

to speak with her. It's just a name I need ... the name of the

neurologist that treated my brother 40 years ago ... a name so we can

access the files in search of clues to help Cub.

I know my sister. There's no way she's going to let anyone know that

I've contacted her in order to speak with our mother to get this one

little piece of information (the doctors could certainly use more

information than that but a name is a good place to start).

The world can be a cruel, cruel, cruel place to live.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

wrote: " As for myself, if someone I dislike called for help

for themselves, I'd probably say no. But in your situation, Raven,

there is no excuse not to help. That's taking things rather too far.

Sad to say, but she probably feels empowered somehow and may even be

enjoying the situation. I can remember my own father gloating over

his brother's poor health. Small wonder that I haven't talked to him

in a few years either. "

Thank you, .

If it was for myself, I would not have bothered her because I have

known for quite some time what sort of response I would get from her.

Knowing that I would be on the receiving end of quite a bit of

unpleasantness for daring to phone in the first place, I called

nonetheless because I can take the abuse but Cub's doctors NEED the

information that only my mother can provide (since my father passed

away in 2005).

My sister's most recent anger towards me stems from the fact that I

was the executrice of our father's estate (our parents having

separated in 2002 after more than 50 years of marriage).

My mother had taken the majority of the property with her when she

left him.

My father split his pension 50/50 with her after the split, and he

took on all of the debts of the marriage (we're talking tens of

thousands of dollars of debt not just a few hundred). Three years

later, a small amount was left owing when he passed away and the

estate was cleaned out settling that debt and a couple other

outstanding debts.

When all was said and done -- and his will had been executed as he

wished -- there was no money left in the estate.

My two sisters have never believed this despite the fact that I would

be willing to provide all the information to them outlining where the

money from his estate went.

Instead, the behaviour last night is how my sister is paying me

back. She is 'getting even' in her eyes by hurting Cub by way of

refusing to allow me access to the one person who actually knows the

name of the neurologist that followed my brother's case.

Here's the saddest part of all. If either of my sister's called me

up in the future with a similar request for themselves or -- in the

case of my youngest sister -- for minor children, I would provide as

much information as I had access to in order to help.

I suppose that makes me pathetic in some ways that I would be such a

soft touch.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

That's happening right now in the US. There was a story not long ago that medial records kept on the MSN or Google sites are not covered by privacy laws. So those doctors who are trying to save money by digitalizing their records have put their patient's records with out in the open for anyone to look at.

In a message dated 5/14/2008 11:41:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes:

Well, here is what is going to happen.Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

That's happening right now in the US. There was a story not long ago that medial records kept on the MSN or Google sites are not covered by privacy laws. So those doctors who are trying to save money by digitalizing their records have put their patient's records with out in the open for anyone to look at.

In a message dated 5/14/2008 11:41:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes:

Well, here is what is going to happen.Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

> Here's the saddest part of all. If either of my sister's called me

> up in the future with a similar request for themselves or -- in the

> case of my youngest sister -- for minor children, I would provide as

> much information as I had access to in order to help.

>

> I suppose that makes me pathetic in some ways that I would be such a

> soft touch.

Why would the fact that your a decent person be sad? I agree that

nobody should let others use them but in the case of medical necessity,

picking someone's recollections for information is a need not a want.

You live by a moral code, an ethical code, and in no way does this make

you a smuck, just a very good person.

Kim

[Guest guest]

This all reminds me of my maternal uncle. He lived in a house not 100 yards from my maternal grandmother, yet he rarely visited her. Mostly though what he did was to do things like not pick up her mail from the mailbox at the main road about half a mile away and other things like that. Why? Because he was trying to bully her into writing the will the way he wanted. She eventually did, but he didn't change his habits.

Even later he fineggeled the sale of his part of his mother's property, his inherited part, to his daughter, but arranged it so that he continued to draw water from the well, which was on the daughter's property. Now, the daughter also have to pay the electric bill for running the pump, so he was essentially getting free water. This came back to bite him though when the daughter was in danger of losing the house in the mortgage crisis. I think they helped her a little, but most of the help came from her getting a lawyer and negotiating with the title company. That was part of my demand before I would help her out, which I did. I didn't think of it at the time, but that must really rankle him that they might be staying there, but not as much as her leaving and strangers moving in.

While it's a good idea and one that I considered yesterday the problem with it is that if my sister won't let my mother answer the phone, she can also intercept mail ... even registered mail or certified mail.My thinking cap is firmly positioned on my head, Kim, and I'm trying to get a clear transmission that will answer my question as to how I will access my mother to get that one piece of information the doctors need. RavenCo-AdministratorWondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

This all reminds me of my maternal uncle. He lived in a house not 100 yards from my maternal grandmother, yet he rarely visited her. Mostly though what he did was to do things like not pick up her mail from the mailbox at the main road about half a mile away and other things like that. Why? Because he was trying to bully her into writing the will the way he wanted. She eventually did, but he didn't change his habits.

Even later he fineggeled the sale of his part of his mother's property, his inherited part, to his daughter, but arranged it so that he continued to draw water from the well, which was on the daughter's property. Now, the daughter also have to pay the electric bill for running the pump, so he was essentially getting free water. This came back to bite him though when the daughter was in danger of losing the house in the mortgage crisis. I think they helped her a little, but most of the help came from her getting a lawyer and negotiating with the title company. That was part of my demand before I would help her out, which I did. I didn't think of it at the time, but that must really rankle him that they might be staying there, but not as much as her leaving and strangers moving in.

While it's a good idea and one that I considered yesterday the problem with it is that if my sister won't let my mother answer the phone, she can also intercept mail ... even registered mail or certified mail.My thinking cap is firmly positioned on my head, Kim, and I'm trying to get a clear transmission that will answer my question as to how I will access my mother to get that one piece of information the doctors need. RavenCo-AdministratorWondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.