Re: Students urged to stand up to bullies

May 5, 2008

Victore wrote: " lol. sometimes I envision Alpha apes and valley girls

having a discussion when I'm taking score. "

responded: " What I find interesting is that we are all in

agreement that Alpha Males and Valley Girls are distasteful and at the

bottom of the pecking order in our little society, but that they would

be close to the apex in the rest of the world ... <snip> ... "

Fer shurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Like, totally. Alpha

Males are like, grody to the max.

Hahahahahahahaha!!!!

Raven

Co-Administrator

May 5, 2008

Victor wrote: " ... <snip> ... There is probably a wise proverb about

not posting on forums while testing a web site, which I'm in the middle

of right now. sorry ... <snip> ... "

Possibly but don't worry too much about what happened. No harm done.

Raven

Co-Administrator

May 5, 2008

" The kids who do tease stick up for each other and if the

teacher doesn't hear what was said they will deny and cover for each

other. "

One thing I was taught in my teaching classes was the tactic

of " selective hearing. " If there is a kid in your classroom who is

a problem to deal with, or a general annoyance, one way to keep him

in line is to pretend not to hear when he is being bullied, but only

hear some of the time. He will then spend the semester behaving, and

trying to be on his best behavior -behavior better than those of his

classmates- in the hopes that you will take notice of his good

behavior and maybe the bullying that you are supposedly not seeing as

well.

This tactic also gives you the advantage of ignoring bullying

problems when you simply do not feel like getting involved in them.

If I and my classes were taught this tactic, you can be sure that

other teacher trainees were, and this is why bullying persists to

this day.

Administrator

May 5, 2008

" My hubby was all for my son sticking up for himself in the physical

sense. Well, one day he did. Took a kid down on the playground by

hooking him by the throat and throwing him to the ground. What did this

prove? My son had a three day suspension and the kids who did the

teasing just received a verbal reprimand. "

That is NT justice for you. You see, what I have learned is that NTs

let off stress as it occurs, thus they tend to be rude, loud, and

obnoxious most of the time. Go to any party and they are this way even

BEFORE they get drunk. Aspies tend to try and adhere to the social

ettiquette they have been taught. So they save up stress until the

boiling point is reached.

So this is what enables bullies to pick and pick and pick under the

approval of NT teachers. But when an Aspie wants to let off the

accumulated stress, they are of course hammered for it. NTs see the

response as disproportionate because they have short memory spans. They

cannot tally up all the minor events, nor can they understand why we

would accumulate stress when they think we can just burn it off so

easily. Finally, they do not appreciate the reserve it takes to hold

all the stress in.

This is because NTs have no empathy.

" My son is not physically pushed around but the teasing still happens.

My son told me the other day that he learned not to try to inform

others when they are wrong because they don't want to hear the facts

and it only makes him friendless. "

No one wants to hear the facts. When you have a low intelligence, you

don't want to be reminded of that. Ergo that is why NTs lie each other

up with hearsay, white lies, and false gossip. These three things are

considered socially acceptable, and it is all approved because no one

in the social group is capable of learning and memorizing the facts

they need to get them through life. It's also why people act foolish

around one another. If it's socially acceptable to act like a dippy

person, no one is inspired to have to learn anything.

At any rate, what Aspies are to such people are disapproving teachers

and parents and police and military and judges and lawyers. That's why

we are hated.

Incidentally, I never used to be so contemptuous, but if you study

human behavior enough, you begin to understand how it works. I cannot

tell you how many psychological studies I have read while researching

the podcasts/web seminars, and what I have learned is that most people

have animal brains that are only marginally more evolved.

We are in some respects a dangerous species. We have the intelligence

to be very inventive, but the way we react to things is mostly primal

and instinctive. In reading about Dian Fossey's Apes, it is not

uncommon for apes to simply clobber one another, bite, or throw

tantrums to subdue others. Sound familiar?

Administrator

May 5, 2008

I'm not sure this is entirely correct. I think what NT's have is more like social empathy. That is to say they express empathy at the socially correct times. Whether they actually feel it or not is another matter. By social empathy I mean they make the "correct" reaction at the correct time. They will "awww" at kittens, cry at weddings and tragedies on the news, cheer and boo at the right times and so on.

I also think NT empathy is more about how whatever the stimulus is makes them feel rather than the actual stimulus itself. By that I mean they will say things like "that makes ME feel so sad" rather than "That is terrible" when they see something bad happen. This would also explain a lot of the charitable giving we see after something like that. I really think a lot of people give not because it is a good thing to do, but because either they want to feel good or because they feel guilty for some silly reason and are trying to mollify that feeling.

It is unlikely that they will admit this because it would be socially incorrect to suggest that one doesn't care about cyclone victims on the other side of the world, or that one cares more about the people who's house was burned down a few blocks away than those people on the other side of the world. Really though I don't think they really care about others, it is all about their own feelings and their own hides.

My observations of human behavior have also led me to dislike humanity more and more. The current election cycle in the US is a prime example. One candidate just goes on about change, but few specifics, and those specifics that he does mention should make the nation shudder. The others, well, they aren't much better. At any rate, so many people are out for something "free" from the government or using government to force others to live a certain way (though they themselves would probably be excluded from those laws). They are like this even though the economy is shaky and the higher taxes and regulations will only make things much, much worse. Yeah, a windfall tax for any value of oil over $80 per barrel is really going to help. tried that and gas all but disappeared.

I think a large part of the problem is that humanity has been breeding at a rapid rate again. Since intelligent people reproduce more slowly that stupid people, the stupid people are in a large and growing majority. Since virtually all of them are NTs, they are only concerned about themselves and right now, not about the long term prospects of the nation itself. As long as they can get their little wage they can spend on booze and having a party every weekend or more often, they don't care about anything else. So, most of our current problems can be traced back to that: too many stupid people and we are going to pay a price for them.

Chimps and apes also wage war. They will patrol their territory in raiding bands that are very quiet and organized. These patrols attack intruders and sometimes kill them. Sometimes they raid neighboring bands and kill some of them or steal females. More recently, the supposedly peaceful chimps have been seen to actually hunt smaller primates, running them up into trees and killing and eating them.

In a message dated 5/5/2008 12:32:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes:

This is because NTs have no empathy.Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

May 6, 2008

>

>>

> Fer shurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Like, totally. Alpha

> Males are like, grody to the max.

>

> Hahahahahahahaha!!!!

>

> Raven

> Co-Administrator

>

it scares me a little that you can do that. In a funny surprised kind

of way, and a little scared your accent is too good

May 7, 2008

Raven wrote: " Fer shurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Like,

totally. Alpha Males are like, grody to the max ... <snip> ... "

mimi responded: " it scares me a little that you can do that. In a

funny surprised kind of way, and a little scared your accent is too

good. "

Scandalous!!! Sometimes I feel like such a moon unit.

;-)

Raven

Co-Administrator

P.S. You should hear me do this in person. I even have the 'vacant

look' associated with Valley Girls at that point.

May 7, 2008

To do a proper Valley Girl accent, should the first sound of

" shurrrrrrr[etc.] " sound different from the first sound of " sure " in

other varieties of English? I ask this because, to me, " sure " seems to

start with the same sound whether a Valley Girl says it or anyone else

says it, but written versions of " Valley Girl " talk always write that

sound in that word as " sh " ... does starting that word with " sh " (when

writing down " Valley Girl " talk) indicate something special about the

way that " Valley Girls " say the first sound of this word? (If not,

what exactly does it indicate?)

Kate Gladstone

May 7, 2008

Well, thanks, Kim — at least, this time, nobody made fun of me for not

understanding something I didn't understand.

>

> >

> > Re:

> >

> > > They are able to gosh goodnaturedly ... are just mimicing those who

> bully them.

> >

> > I don't understand " gosh " here (it doesn't fit the meaning I know for

> > the word) or " mimicing. " Please explain or define?

>

> Sorry Kate, poor spelling on my part. The word I meant was josh but not

> teasing to hurt feelings, more like friendly banter and the latter should

> have been mimicking.

>

> Kim

>

Kate Gladstone

May 7, 2008

...I'm sure Tom or Raven could easily find my post on the

FamForum, but I'm not good at that, so I'll summarize her. I

definitely agree with you that NTs have " social empathy. " Here's a

good example. My signficant other's son is profoundly

multihandicapped and slowly dying. Many people will say " how sad "

but does anyone visit....No! Why...because it would make THEM feel

too bad to have the myth that the world is a fair place destroyed by

watching parents outlive their child. The facility in which he's in

is composed of doctors, nurses, social workers, etc., but do they

even begin to get the fact that we know our child far better than

they do...NO! Instead they throw out platitudes and try to act as if

they are acting on his behalf, as opposed to his " stupid mothers who

actually think they can tell he's in pain by observing his nonverbal

cues. " I've never been good at saying the " right thing because I'm

supposed to " (one of my positive AS traits, I believe), yet I've

also always been there for people in a very real way. Interestingly,

I've been told I'm " cold " by family members because I don't play the

game. This is all to say that I would agree that NTs have social

empathy...and ASs probably have " honest empathy. "

>

> I'm not sure this is entirely correct. I think what NT's have is

more like

> social empathy. That is to say they express empathy at the socially

correct

> times. Whether they actually feel it or not is another matter. By

social empathy

> I mean they make the " correct " reaction at the correct time. They

will

> " awww " at kittens, cry at weddings and tragedies on the news,

cheer and boo at the

> right times and so on.

>

> I also think NT empathy is more about how whatever the stimulus is

makes

> them feel rather than the actual stimulus itself. By that I mean

they will say

> things like " that makes ME feel so sad " rather than " That is

terrible " when

> they see something bad happen. This would also explain a lot of

the charitable

> giving we see after something like that. I really think a lot of

people give

> not because it is a good thing to do, but because either they want

to feel

> good or because they feel guilty for some silly reason and are

trying to

> mollify that feeling.

>

> It is unlikely that they will admit this because it would be

socially

> incorrect to suggest that one doesn't care about cyclone victims on

the other side

> of the world, or that one cares more about the people who's house

was burned

> down a few blocks away than those people on the other side of the

world.

> Really though I don't think they really care about others, it is

all about their

> own feelings and their own hides.

>

> My observations of human behavior have also led me to dislike

humanity more

> and more. The current election cycle in the US is a prime example.

One

> candidate just goes on about change, but few specifics, and those

specifics that he

> does mention should make the nation shudder. The others, well,

they aren't

> much better. At any rate, so many people are out for

something " free " from the

> government or using government to force others to live a certain

way (though

> they themselves would probably be excluded from those laws). They

are like

> this even though the economy is shaky and the higher taxes and

regulations will

> only make things much, much worse. Yeah, a windfall tax for any

value of oil

> over $80 per barrel is really going to help. tried that and

gas all

> but disappeared.

>

> I think a large part of the problem is that humanity has been

breeding at a

> rapid rate again. Since intelligent people reproduce more slowly

that stupid

> people, the stupid people are in a large and growing majority.

Since virtually

> all of them are NTs, they are only concerned about themselves and

right now,

> not about the long term prospects of the nation itself. As long as

they can

> get their little wage they can spend on booze and having a party

every

> weekend or more often, they don't care about anything else. So,

most of our current

> problems can be traced back to that: too many stupid people and we

are going

> to pay a price for them.

>

> Chimps and apes also wage war. They will patrol their territory in

raiding

> bands that are very quiet and organized. These patrols attack

intruders and

> sometimes kill them. Sometimes they raid neighboring bands and kill

some of them

> or steal females. More recently, the supposedly peaceful chimps

have been

> seen to actually hunt smaller primates, running them up into trees

and killing

> and eating them.

>

> In a message dated 5/5/2008 12:32:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> no_reply writes:

>

> This is because NTs have no empathy.

>

> **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists

on family

> favorites at AOL Food.

> (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

>

May 7, 2008

LOL! In its written form, Valley Girls need the extra help to

understand that the " sh " sound needs to happen when 'sure' is spoken

as 'shurrrrrrr.'

Raven

Co-Administrator

>

> To do a proper Valley Girl accent, should the first sound of

> " shurrrrrrr[etc.] " sound different from the first sound of " sure " in

> other varieties of English? I ask this because, to me, " sure " seems to

> start with the same sound whether a Valley Girl says it or anyone else

> says it, but written versions of " Valley Girl " talk always write that

> sound in that word as " sh " ... does starting that word with " sh " (when

> writing down " Valley Girl " talk) indicate something special about the

> way that " Valley Girls " say the first sound of this word? (If not,

> what exactly does it indicate?)

>

> Kate Gladstone

>

May 7, 2008

First off, thanks. I was worried that people on here might have thought me too harsh. Good to see that someone else has noticed this too.

Second, that's really rough about. A cousin of mine has a son with lots of health problems too and is going to for major surgery on his back this summer, and will have other things addressed as well. From what I understand, some of his issues, probably ones that I haven't been told about, will shorten his life span, but I don't know by how much. Of course, it really did help that they let him eat so much that he was morbidly obese by the time he was 8.

The kind of treatment you mention from doctors can be really infuriating. As I mentioned early, the cholesterol drugs affect me very badly. One time I told the doctor that I wanted off the meds because I was having trouble getting up from chairs and such. He just shrugged and said I would have to deal with it. I'm telling you, I nearly dealt with it upside his head right there in the exam room. I switched to another doctor after that, but even that one wants me on meds. He put me on some and the muscles started to go again, and I stopped taking it. When I go back for a physical this summer or fall I'll probably get blessed out for it, but that's tough.

Good luck with your SO's son.

...I'm sure Tom or Raven could easily find my post on the FamForum, but I'm not good at that, so I'll summarize her. I definitely agree with you that NTs have "social empathy." Here's a good example. My signficant other's son is profoundly multihandicapped and slowly dying. Many people will say "how sad" but does anyone visit....No! Why...because it would make THEM feel too bad to have the myth that the world is a fair place destroyed by watching parents outlive their child. The facility in which he's in is composed of doctors, nurses, social workers, etc., but do they even begin to get the fact that we know our child far better than they do...NO! Instead they throw out platitudes and try to act as if they are acting on his behalf, as opposed to his "stupid mothers who actually think they can tell he's in pain by observing his nonverbal cues." I've never been good at saying the "right thing because I'm supposed to" (one of my positive AS traits, I believe), yet I've also always been there for people in a very real way. Interestingly, I've been told I'm "cold" by family members because I don't play the game. This is all to say that I would agree that NTs have social empathy...and ASs probably have "honest empathy."--- In Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

May 8, 2008