Re: Students urged to stand up to bullies

[Guest guest]

>

> (http://www.southtownstar.com/news/927823,050208bullying.article)

>

> Students urged to stand up to bullies

>

> May 2, 2008

>

> By Jim Hook, Staff writer

>

> Then, on the morning of Oct. 7, 2003, while on a business trip in

New

> York, Halligan awoke to a frantic phone call from his wife, .

>

> " Get home. had killed himself, " she said.

>

> " My life changed forever that day, " Halligan told the students. " My

> son, whom I loved more than life itself, was gone. "

>

> Halligan told students he wished he would have gotten involved

> despite 's insistence he didn't.

>

> " There's no greater human pain than for a parent to lose a child, "

he

> said. " No parent should ever have to feel that pain. "

>

> Halligan urged students to remember a couple of things from " 's

> Story. "

>

> " Whatever you do, don't stand idly by and let your classmates be

> bullied, " he said. " Don't be a bystander. Stand up to the bully and

> tell him or her to stop bullying. I know it's a hard choice to

make,

> but it's the right choice. "

>

> Halligan also told students how much they are loved.

>

> " You are all loved beyond belief, " he said. " Not everyone has the

> perfect home life. But there are people in your life who truly love

> you.

>

> " Reach out to them, " Halligan said. " Whatever you might think, the

> world will not be a better place with you not in it. "

>

This was so sad and beautiful. When I try to describe this feeling

of love for children, people assume you are seeking attention.

A young boy named Elias died related to a seizure disorder and he was

Autistic. Tho family friends will walk across the country to raise

awareness for Autism and honor his life. The child was 6. They are

taking a year off from work to do this for his memory. These guys

are great. Most of the time I think people are stupid. The meanies,

bullies, people that hurt others to make themselves feel more

important, or to grab more goodies for themselves. Life is a crazy

experienece. mimi

[Guest guest]

Amazing coincidence. Just as this latest replies came up on this thread, there was a CSI episode about a bully who was murdered. It was interesting how the schools couldn't do anything to stop the bully because it might "infringe on their rights."

Not that I am endorsing or encouraging such action, but I actually support those who kill bullies. If the schools refuse to get a handle on the situation, then that is maybe what it takes to get it under control.

In this particular case, I think the bully should be charged with murder and executed. The school administrators who refused to stop it should be required to attend and later act as pall bearers at the bully's funeral.

I could go on in a pseudo-satirical rant along the lines of "A Modest Proposal" about other amusing things that could be done with bullies, but I'm not sure my humor (or is it?) is taken lightly as it should be, sort of.

He was 13. He was in junior high school. He was still a CHILD even though he was a teenager.Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

" This was so sad and beautiful. When I try to describe this feeling

of love for children, people assume you are seeking attention.

" A young boy named Elias died related to a seizure disorder and he was

Autistic. Tho family friends will walk across the country to raise

awareness for Autism and honor his life. The child was 6. They are

taking a year off from work to do this for his memory. These guys

are great. Most of the time I think people are stupid. The meanies,

bullies, people that hurt others to make themselves feel more

important, or to grab more goodies for themselves. Life is a crazy

experienece. mimi "

Raven and I have less appreciation for the father. We were discussing

this article shortly after I posted it and she pointed out the fact

that if the father would have tried to put an end to the bullying

right from the start, everything might have turned out much better.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

That's because the story he's telling is about , his 13-

year-old son who took his life after years of torment at the hands of

a school bully ... <snip> ... Like most kids his age, struggled

to navigate his way through the often-confusing world of junior high

school [end quote].

He was 13. He was in junior high school.

He was still a CHILD even though he was a teenager.

[Guest guest]

>

>> Raven and I have less appreciation for the father. We were

discussing

> this article shortly after I posted it and she pointed out the fact

> that if the father would have tried to put an end to the bullying

> right from the start, everything might have turned out much better.

>

>

> Administrator

>

That is very true. Hands off initally but if your child spirals. I

have stood up to some girl bullies for my daughter. They teased her

initally, until I called the other parent as I recall. Then the kid

went off to do some really horrid things with several boys. (ugly

stuff--> teen years in the NT world)

I am a bit of an idealist and world like to believe people love their

kids; maybe he only realized how much after he was gone.

[Guest guest]

>

> Amazing coincidence. Just as this latest replies came up on this

thread,

> there was a CSI episode about a bully who was murdered. It was

interesting how

> the schools couldn't do anything to stop the bully because it

might " infringe

> on their rights. "

>

> Not that I am endorsing or encouraging such action, but I actually

support

> those who kill bullies. If the schools refuse to get a handle on

the situation,

> then that is maybe what it takes to get it under control.

>

> In this particular case, I think the bully should be charged with

murder and

> executed. The school administrators who refused to stop it should

be

> required to attend and later act as pall bearers at the bully's

funeral.

>

> I could go on in a pseudo-satirical rant along the lines of " A

Modest

> Proposal " about other amusing things that could be done with

bullies, but I'm not

> sure my humor (or is it?) is taken lightly as it should be, sort of.

>

>

>

Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family

favorites at AOL Food.

That is the AOL tag line that came with the mail. a modest proposal

you say?

[Guest guest]

lol. sometimes I envision Alpha apes and valley girls having a

discussion when I'm taking score.

> >

> > Amazing coincidence. Just as this latest replies came up on this

> thread,

> > there was a CSI episode about a bully who was murdered. It was

> interesting how

> > the schools couldn't do anything to stop the bully because it

> might " infringe

> > on their rights. "

> >

> > Not that I am endorsing or encouraging such action, but I

actually

> support

> > those who kill bullies. If the schools refuse to get a handle on

> the situation,

> > then that is maybe what it takes to get it under control.

> >

> > In this particular case, I think the bully should be charged with

> murder and

> > executed. The school administrators who refused to stop it should

> be

> > required to attend and later act as pall bearers at the bully's

> funeral.

> >

> > I could go on in a pseudo-satirical rant along the lines of " A

> Modest

> > Proposal " about other amusing things that could be done with

> bullies, but I'm not

> > sure my humor (or is it?) is taken lightly as it should be, sort

of.

> >

> >

> >

> Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family

> favorites at AOL Food.

>

> That is the AOL tag line that came with the mail. a modest

proposal

> you say?

>

[Guest guest]

sorry. that was meant for the thread " Re: Students

urged to stand up to bullies " .

> > >

> > > Amazing coincidence. Just as this latest replies came up on

this

> > thread,

> > > there was a CSI episode about a bully who was murdered. It was

> > interesting how

> > > the schools couldn't do anything to stop the bully because it

> > might " infringe

> > > on their rights. "

> > >

> > > Not that I am endorsing or encouraging such action, but I

> actually

> > support

> > > those who kill bullies. If the schools refuse to get a handle

on

> > the situation,

> > > then that is maybe what it takes to get it under control.

> > >

> > > In this particular case, I think the bully should be charged

with

> > murder and

> > > executed. The school administrators who refused to stop it

should

> > be

> > > required to attend and later act as pall bearers at the bully's

> > funeral.

> > >

> > > I could go on in a pseudo-satirical rant along the lines of " A

> > Modest

> > > Proposal " about other amusing things that could be done with

> > bullies, but I'm not

> > > sure my humor (or is it?) is taken lightly as it should be,

sort

> of.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family

> > favorites at AOL Food.

> >

> > That is the AOL tag line that came with the mail. a modest

> proposal

> > you say?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

crud. I meant " that was meant for the thread Re:

Fun in the " Other " forums. "

There is probably a wise proverb about not posting on forums while

testing a web site, which I'm in the middle of right now. sorry.

> > > >

> > > > Amazing coincidence. Just as this latest replies came up on

> this

> > > thread,

> > > > there was a CSI episode about a bully who was murdered. It

was

> > > interesting how

> > > > the schools couldn't do anything to stop the bully because it

> > > might " infringe

> > > > on their rights. "

> > > >

> > > > Not that I am endorsing or encouraging such action, but I

> > actually

> > > support

> > > > those who kill bullies. If the schools refuse to get a handle

> on

> > > the situation,

> > > > then that is maybe what it takes to get it under control.

> > > >

> > > > In this particular case, I think the bully should be charged

> with

> > > murder and

> > > > executed. The school administrators who refused to stop it

> should

> > > be

> > > > required to attend and later act as pall bearers at the

bully's

> > > funeral.

> > > >

> > > > I could go on in a pseudo-satirical rant along the lines

of " A

> > > Modest

> > > > Proposal " about other amusing things that could be done with

> > > bullies, but I'm not

> > > > sure my humor (or is it?) is taken lightly as it should be,

> sort

> > of.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family

> > > favorites at AOL Food.

> > >

> > > That is the AOL tag line that came with the mail. a modest

> > proposal

> > > you say?

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Having almost lost to suicide for some of the same reasons, I

give this father a great deal of credit for the way in which he is

using his grief to make a difference in the world. Louise

>

> (http://www.southtownstar.com/news/927823,050208bullying.article)

>

> Students urged to stand up to bullies

>

> May 2, 2008

>

> By Jim Hook, Staff writer

>

> Halligan begins to tell " 's Story, " then pauses to compose

> himself.

>

> The Vermont man has told his story 100 times before, yet it never

> gets any easier.

>

> That's because the story he's telling is about , his 13-year-

old

> son who took his life after years of torment at the hands of a

school

> bully.

>

> But here Halligan is one recent weekday morning in Alsip, standing

in

> front of hundreds of teens sitting attentively inside the gymnasium

> at Prairie Junior High School.

>

> Like most kids his age, struggled to navigate his way through

> the often-confusing world of junior high school.

>

> Never the best student or athlete, carved out a niche with

other

> students who shared his love of art and humor.

>

> The bullying started three years earlier. was 10 and in the

> fifth grade. Physical at first, the bullying soon took to the

> Internet, where nasty rumors about him were text-messaged to his

> peers and posted on Web sites.

>

> " There were a lot of tearful moments around the dinner table, " he

> said. " It's amazing how cruel kids can be toward other kids if they

> don't have a certain physical appearance or social status or

athletic

> ability. "

>

> To fend off the bully, began studying tae bo, a cardio kick-

> boxing program.

>

> Halligan even began doing the tae bo with .

>

> " Those are some of the best memories I have of my time with my

son, "

> he said. " I thought it would be just like in the movie 'The Karate

> Kid.' "

>

> But the bullying continued.

>

> rejected pleas from his parents to intervene.

>

> " No dad, I can handle it, " was his response. " Don't embarrass me. "

>

> Then, on the morning of Oct. 7, 2003, while on a business trip in

New

> York, Halligan awoke to a frantic phone call from his wife, .

>

> " Get home. had killed himself, " she said.

>

> " My life changed forever that day, " Halligan told the students. " My

> son, whom I loved more than life itself, was gone. "

>

> Halligan told students he wished he would have gotten involved

> despite 's insistence he didn't.

>

> " There's no greater human pain than for a parent to lose a child, "

he

> said. " No parent should ever have to feel that pain. "

>

> Halligan urged students to remember a couple of things from " 's

> Story. "

>

> " Whatever you do, don't stand idly by and let your classmates be

> bullied, " he said. " Don't be a bystander. Stand up to the bully and

> tell him or her to stop bullying. I know it's a hard choice to

make,

> but it's the right choice. "

>

> Halligan also told students how much they are loved.

>

> " You are all loved beyond belief, " he said. " Not everyone has the

> perfect home life. But there are people in your life who truly love

> you.

>

> " Reach out to them, " Halligan said. " Whatever you might think, the

> world will not be a better place with you not in it. "

>

> Jim Hook can be reached at jhook@... or .

>

[Guest guest]

I see what you are saying, Raven, although I didn't read it that way

at first. I think the other take on this is that the father learned

a tough lesson. You are right...He should have been there for his

son, much as we were there for and you are there for Cub, but

unfortunately it was something he had not yet learned. Men in our

society are taught to learn to " tough it out, " and I guess that's the

lesson he tried to teach his son. It didn't work...nor could it work

given a myriad of variables. He's grown from an awful

experience....and is trying to teach other children and parents what

can happen. I think he's really saying " Do as I say, not as I did,

because it won't have a happy ending.

>

>

That's because the story he's telling is about , his

13-

> year-old son who took his life after years of torment at the hands

of

> a school bully ... <snip> ... Like most kids his age,

struggled

> to navigate his way through the often-confusing world of junior

high

> school [end quote].

>

> He was 13. He was in junior high school.

>

> He was still a CHILD even though he was a teenager.

>

>

[Guest guest]

The law does say that schools have a legal obligation to handle

bullying. However, I have heard of cases similar to one where someone

was harassed by a group that threatened to drag him in a car down the

road, and attempted to tie him up. The assistant principal just

laughed, and said it was his fault for being openly gay. A court ruled

that due process of law had not occurred, and the school was legally

obligated to act. Personally, I would have just bypassed the legal

mess altogether and drawn up the documents for expulsion of the group.

The law does stipulate that one's rights do not extend to violating

the rights of others.

While I feel that the father made the wrong decision, I still think

the loss hurt him badly.

[Guest guest]

That would be interesting. From my visits to the zoo, the apes seemed better behaved and certainly better groomed than a lot of the "popular" guys around.

lol. sometimes I envision Alpha apes and valley girls having a discussion when I'm taking score. Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

Well, there wouldn't be anything culinary about it. I'll list a couple of my slightly satirical suggestions.

1. Assign the bullies to what the WWII Russians referred to as "Penal Battalions." These troops would be barely trained and supervised by more reliable troops. Today, we could use them for things like supply truck drivers (handcuffing them to the wheel to keep them from running away) and thus sparing real troops or expensive contractors from the dangerous work of driving those trucks. Other uses would be to drop them into hostile areas with limited gear and the enemy having been alerted. They likely would be wiped out, but they might also take a few of the enemy with them.

2. Along similar lines, we could use them at home. The bullies could be used for hard labor in the fields or other such jobs currently occupied by illegal immigrants, but not those that require skill because that would displace honest workers. We could probably save some money this way because we could pay them in alcohol, party drugs like ecstasy and the floozy girls from the high schools they were taken from. We could ensure production by giving the best producer of the day double rations (which they could use to get more girls) and the worst producer half rations. Crop harvests would probably be completed in less time with less loss.

3. I once wrote a college paper about using criminals for a new round of gladiator style games. There is no reason that we couldn't use bullies, particularly those who enjoy fighting and posting fight videos on the net. These would be much like the cage fighting that is popular today but with even fewer rules. Prized instead of being money would be food rations, party drugs and the girls they could buy with their winnings. Of course, they would be in a prison type setting, not loose in society.

4. A variation of the above. There are concerns about people in enclosed spaces for long periods of time. We could establish a large test facility full of bullies. This would essentially be just the opposite of what we would be sending into space (team players, well educated and skilled, etc.). Each lot would be divided into section of say 20 to 50 each. Each section would compete for everything: leadership, food rations, drugs, girls, etc. The top dog would get at least double rations (to make it more interesting, his favorite girl would also get double rations, which would make them compete too) while the bottom end ones would get half rations. Periodically, contests would be held. Think like the games on "Survivor" and such. The winners would win a special extra ration. These games would be tilted to give the more intelligent bullies and edge against the physical brutes which would mix things up a bit. Lastly, the groups would be shuffled now and then, disrupting the entire pecking order, causing a new round of infighting and such to establish a new one. Eventually, a group of nothing but the top alphas could be put together which would be very interesting.

Now, prisons are sort of like this already, but you can see the differences I suggest. The biggest of these is that girls would be included in the mix. Without girls, mush of the tension and motivation for bullying would be removed. Therefore, they are needed to fuel the fires. These girls would be the kind of girl who cheers when guys are fighting or get in fights themselves. In other words, they wouldn't be ladies, but the most base and crude type of girl. They would, of course, be given birth control implants so they won't get pregnant. This would prevent the bullies from reproducing and by removing the fear of pregnancy from the girls, they would probably be even more promiscuous than otherwise, which would only increase tensions even more.

---

Like I said, this is satire. We should have gotten a handle on this mess long ago before it became so much of a problem. Since we haven't, the measures needed to correct the problem will have to be harsher than they would have been 30 years ago. Just what those measures should be, well I've given you an idea, but I don't think it would really work, though it would be amusing.

Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.That is the AOL tag line that came with the mail. a modest proposal you say? :)Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

That is a problem and why I said I didn't advocate violence as a solution.

Society, especially in the schoolyard, has this really twisted set of rules. The bullied kid is just supposed to suck it up and not fight back. If they do, rather than get respect, they are the one treated like a monster, not the bully. Also, the others will tend to stick together and rarely will the bully be seen throwing the first punch. The result is the bullied one ends up getting caught and getting in all the trouble. Like you said, the teasing probably won't stop either.

When I was in college, yes college, I caught some bullying. I clearly recall one time where a guy was hassling me and probably a dozen other people were enjoying the show. I got sick of him and put him on the floor. It was truly amazing how the people who had thought it so funny that this guy had been pushing me and trying to steal the glasses off my face. However, when I hit him and threw him on the ground they were telling me to cut it out, that he hadn't done anything, and that if I didn't back off, they'd all jump me. They probably would have too if I hadn't pulled a knife.

The NTs really are delusional sometimes. They praise a bully beating up someone smaller than himself, but when the bullied strikes back, the bullied is a monster.

My hubby was all for my son sticking up for himself in the physicalsense. Well, one day he did. Took a kid down on the playground byhooking him by the throat and throwing him to the ground. What did thisprove? My son had a three day suspension and the kids who did theteasing just received a verbal reprimand. My son is not physicallypushed around but the teasing still happens. My son told me the otherday that he learned not to try to inform others when they are wrongbecause they don't want to hear the facts and it only makes himfriendless.KimWondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

Alpha males have their place as leaders. The problem is, the ones that usually claim the Alpha male positions are merely brutes and bullies and aren't really qualified to actually be leaders. They take their position by muscling out more capable rivals and by forming cliques to protect them.

In a message dated 5/5/2008 10:56:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes:

What I find interesting is that we are all in agreement that Alpha Males and Valley Girls are distasteful and at the bottom of the pecking order in our little society, but that they would be close to the apex in the rest of the world - well, at least the Valley Girls would have been up there in the '80s.AdministratorWondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

This is true. Unfortunately, most people tend to see bullying as a "rite of passage" kind of thing that one is supposed to smile and endure. So, if one does strike back, it is seen as more shocking and terrible than the bullying itself. We can see this in the school shootings. In most cases, even though the shooter had been bullied terribly, that was mentioned only in passing and the tear-jerker stuff was for the bullies and their clique, not the shooter. Sure the politicians and others grandstand and pass useless legislation and rules while the public is paying attention, but once their ADHD attention span has moved on, it is forgotten until the next "shocking" incident happens.

In a message dated 5/5/2008 11:19:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes:

Thus the male is stuck being bullied unless he responds with the one thing the bullies can understand: Excessive and overwhelming force. Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

> So this father is taking a year off from work to spread the word

> about how others are failing bullied children within the school

> framework.

>

> If he had put one-tenth that amount of effort into listening to what

> his son was saying and then acting on that information, he wouldn't

> need to take a year off to talk about why his son killed himself.

I agree with what you have said Raven. My son has told me not to

interfere and not to go up to school ranting on his behalf about the

teasing. I changed tactics and now email the teacher & principle or

speak to them privately when I am at the school while the children are

still in class so as not to embarass him. His feelings count and I want

to help him in a way that does not cause him more distress.

It's really tough because no matter what I do or he does, teasing

continues. The kids who do tease stick up for each other and if the

teacher doesn't hear what was said they will deny and cover for each

other. My son has learned who to sit by and who likes him as he is.

They are able to gosh goodnaturedly and he knows that they kid around.

He knows who the jerks are and we've talked about what their home life

may be like. If they are dishing it out at school, they most likely are

hearing this at home and are just mimicing those who bully them.

I have thought of pulling him out and homeschooling but am afraid that I

would not be able to help him in every area as much as he needs.

Kim

[Guest guest]

>

> Amazing coincidence. Just as this latest replies came up on this

thread,

> there was a CSI episode about a bully who was murdered. It was

interesting how

> the schools couldn't do anything to stop the bully because it might

" infringe

> on their rights. "

>

> Not that I am endorsing or encouraging such action, but I actually

support

> those who kill bullies. If the schools refuse to get a handle on the

situation,

> then that is maybe what it takes to get it under control.

My hubby was all for my son sticking up for himself in the physical

sense. Well, one day he did. Took a kid down on the playground by

hooking him by the throat and throwing him to the ground. What did this

prove? My son had a three day suspension and the kids who did the

teasing just received a verbal reprimand. My son is not physically

pushed around but the teasing still happens. My son told me the other

day that he learned not to try to inform others when they are wrong

because they don't want to hear the facts and it only makes him

friendless.

Kim

[Guest guest]

Re:

> They are able to gosh goodnaturedly ... are just mimicing those who bully

them.

I don't understand " gosh " here (it doesn't fit the meaning I know for

the word) or " mimicing. " Please explain or define?

Kate Gladstone

[Guest guest]

" lol. sometimes I envision Alpha apes and valley girls having a

discussion when I'm taking score. "

What I find interesting is that we are all in agreement that Alpha

Males and Valley Girls are distasteful and at the bottom of the pecking

order in our little society, but that they would be close to the apex

in the rest of the world - well, at least the Valley Girls would have

been up there in the '80s.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

No worries.

Administrator

crud. I meant " that was meant for the thread Re:

Fun in the " Other " forums. "

There is probably a wise proverb about not posting on forums while

testing a web site, which I'm in the middle of right now. sorry.

[Guest guest]

>> Re:> > > They are able to gosh goodnaturedly ... are just mimicing those who bully them.> > I don't understand "gosh" here (it doesn't fit the meaning I know for> the word) or "mimicing." Please explain or define?

Sorry Kate, poor spelling on my part. The word I meant was josh but not teasing to hurt feelings, more like friendly banter and the latter should have been mimicking.

Kim

[Guest guest]

" Men in our society are taught to learn to " tough it out, " and I

guess that's the lesson he tried to teach his son. "

Men in our society are TOLD to tough it out, and the reason most men

follow suit is because they are too deficient in this area to think

out better solutions for themselves.

There are certain areas where women seem to be the more advanced

thinkers and other places where men seem to be the more advanced

thinkers.

Men are good with spacial relationships, sometimes better at math,

somewhat better at practical problem solving and engineering

problems.

Women are better at solving relationship problems among other things.

But to tell a guy: " To stop the bullying, you have to do X, Y and Z "

won't work with him because

1) Doing X, Y and Z won't make any sense to him, and

2) The bullies, who will doubtless be more alpha male than he is,

will not respond to X, Y and Z favorably at all.

Thus the male is stuck being bullied unless he responds with the one

thing the bullies can understand: Excessive and overwhelming force.

When a child is little, if he is to avoid violence, then the next

best thing to do is pretty much what Raven and I said in the podcast.

Among the things mentioned: Never leave the sight of a teacher and

always run to the teacher if bullying occurs. He will seem like a

sissy, but in this day and age, that is his only recource.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

Zoe wrote: " The law does say that schools have a legal obligation to

handle bullying ... <snip> ... "

At my son's two previous schools, the principal was the first line

bully towards children with Autism. Teachers and Educational

Assistants who were so inclined, followed suit. Teachers and

Educational Assistants who were not so inclined, had to tread lightly

for fear of losing their jobs.

Zoe wrote: " ... <snip> ... Personally, I would have just bypassed

the legal mess altogether and drawn up the documents for expulsion of

the group. The law does stipulate that one's rights do not extend to

violating the rights of others ... <snip> ... "

Unfortunately, not every adult who is in charge actually follows the

laws himself or herself. In those cases, bullying is the

activity 'du jour.'

Zoe wrote: " ... <snip> ... While I feel that the father made the

wrong decision, I still think the loss hurt him badly ... <snip> ... "

While I am sorry for the father's loss and while the father

undoubtedly feels the hurt of having lost his son, it does not negate

the fact that he was not part of the solution ergo he was part of the

problem.

You will think I am harsh as many people do. That being said, if

this father had done his job considerably better and with more

dedication than he did, he would have been part of the solution.

Instead, he made several poor choices and abdicated his position as

parent which led to his son's despairing that ended in suicide.

Raven

Co-Administrator