Re: Help! Sex problem!

May 7, 2012

No, fight for me. I simply asked her to stop shoving religion down my throat! That is not what this forum is for!! To: "autism-aspergers " <autism-aspergers > Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 5:40 PM Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

Ain't that the truth!Sent from my iPhone

I don't understand why people are fighting on here. Don't we have enough problems just getting through the day with our children? To: "autism-aspergers " <autism-aspergers > Sent:

Monday, May 7, 2012 4:58 PM Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

No, Carolyn. I asked you to stop. Twice! To: autism-aspergers Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 4:57 PM Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

Iâ€™m sorry as I do not now what you asked me to stop. ??

Anyway my daughter has talked to the counselor at the school since this morning, and she interviewed my grandson and is content that my older grandson did not molest him as she had first suspected. So thank God he gets to be left out of it.

So she said that Childrenâ€™s Services have been called off for now. It really upset my daughter but I talked her down best I could, and prayed for her and the situation and the Lord stepped in and helped us all.

Could have gotten out of hand. Things do get out of hand and he could have been suspended.

Carolyn

From: Jane

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 1:43 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

Ok it's now obvious to me that there's more to the story-

Because someone has nicely been asked to stop and can't respect boundaries.

HOW anyone thinks a possible molesting has anything to do with a homosexuality is beyond me-

My guess is there's more to the reason the school made the allegations- I have never heard of anyone calling protective services because a kid masturbates too much-

But I get stupid in the schools so it's possible-

But research molesting- its an act of violance- not anything else at all.Sent from my iPhone

For the love of Pete. Its not up to you to worn or save anybody. Ever heard of love thy neighbor? It didnt say love them only if they arent sinners. This is a board for AUTISM, not a Im going to shove my religion down your collective throat! How many times do people have to politely tell you off? --- Original Message ---From: Carolyn <mailto:charper777%40comcast.net>Sent: May 7, 2012 5/7/12To: mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: Help! Sex problem! It may come as a surprise to some of you that not all of us condone this. As a Christian I do not condone it but go by the Bible. I am sorry it upsets so many people these days, but the Bible does still call it sin and an abomination to God. I donâ€™t hate anybody in fact I think I love them because I am willing to put my neck on the chopping block and warn them. If they do not repent and turn from this sin they will go to Hell. Jesus Christ is the only one who can save a person from this kind of bondage. So there I have said it, if you want to hate me go ahead. I have warned you out of love. There are millions of Christians in this world who believe the same way, so hate us all if you want to, while you preach against hate. Kind of confusing. We love you! Jesus loves you! He died to save you! Just saying. Carolyn From: Jane Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:46 AMTo: mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem! Yep! Not to mention homosexuality has nothing to do with molestation question- Jane- and since u qualified ur sexual orientation;Strait- but not narrow- left narrow behind long time ago when I realized love is a better choice than hate.Sent from my iPhoneOn May 7, 2012, at 1:32 PM, Terri Eagen-Torkko <mailto:torkko%40gmail.com> wrote: With all due respect, Carolyn, please just take 's input on the whole lesbian thing and don't say more about it. Everything in your first paragraph is wrong. What you describe is butch-femme relationships--not every lesbian relationship is butch-femme and not every butch-femme relationship is lesbian. Please, just do some reading before you say more about your theories on sexuality on this list. TerriLesbian mom, not a butch or a femme, kid on the spectrum On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Carolyn <mailto:charper777%40comcast.net> wrote: Where I thought it had relevance was maybe they were thinking that the older brother was assigning the role of female to the younger brother. Since he said to the counselor that his brother calls him a girl. I have noticed in lesbian relationships it appears the assign the role of male to one of them, and the role of female to the other, and yet they are both females. Just believe that they jumped the gun there as not all people do that. Many if not most are just male or female and do not assign roles. Anyway I didnâ€™t do anything, just trying to follow their leading and understand what they are saying, which I think is pure rubbage in the case of my two grandsons! Carolyn From: L. Sweetman Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:14 AMTo: mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem! First, let me say that I'm not certain how there being lesbians at his school has any relevance nor what you mean by that orientation having anything to do with the supposed claims. It, frankly, has absolutely no connection. Assuming it does will likely do more harm than good as will feeling you so emphatically need to say you are NOT of that orientation (as if there is some sort of unwritten code that is tied to sexual orientation). If that becomes part of your argument to the school, you risk alienating people who might otherwise be on your side. That being said, masturbation is fairly common in children of all sorts regardless of whether or not they have ASD or any other diagnosis. It is a normal part of human development. It is fairly common as a stim for our kids with ASD, though. How parents and family respond affects children in multiple ways, some being tied to self-esteem, body image, and later sexual beliefs others being tied to where or how often they do it (especially in children who, like you say of your grandson, like to push the buttons of the adults around them). Kids are smart. They can very quickly identify what freaks us out and will, in some cases, then do that over and over and over. Our daughter has had a series of stims over the years. Currently, it is a mind-numbingly annoying snorting/sniffing sound that shakes the rafters. When she was 5 and starting kindergarten, though, it was masturbating. We worked with the school on putting a few things in place to make it a bit less easy for her (for a time, we changed her clothes to limit access. She stopped wearing dresses and skirts. She also had an issue with lifting her dress/skirt up as high as she could, so this tackled two birds with one stone). We and the school also worked on helping her learn what is for public and what is for private. This was especially important because simply telling a child who is stimming to stop doesn't usually work. They are doing it because they need the stimulation and just saying "No" without providing an opportunity for the needed stimulation or an alternative that provides the same sensory input usually won't be effective. When she was at home, if she

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May 8, 2012

While I understand your question, D, this isn't a theoretical (or theological) exercise for me. My kid's on the spectrum. I'm a lesbian. I'm part of this list. This woman's busy waxing whatever about what lesbians do, how queer suicides are the price you pay for sin, blah blah blah.

I wish I COULD set it aside and get back to talking about what's pertinent to this list. But this, right here, IS pertinent to my life. I will not stand by and let her go on and on unchallenged in this space or elsewhere.

tt

I don't understand why people are fighting on here. Don't we have enough problems just getting through the day with our children?

To: " autism-aspergers " <autism-aspergers >

Sent:

Monday, May 7, 2012 4:58 PM Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

No, Carolyn. I asked you to stop. Twice!

To: autism-aspergers

Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 4:57 PM Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

I’m sorry as I do not now what you asked me to stop. ??

Anyway my daughter has talked to the counselor at the school since this morning, and she interviewed my grandson and is content that my older grandson did not molest him as she had first suspected. So thank God he gets to be left out of it.

So she said that Children’s Services have been called off for now. It really upset my daughter but I talked her down best I could, and prayed for her and the situation and the Lord stepped in and helped us all.

Could have gotten out of hand. Things do get out of hand and he could have been suspended.

Carolyn

From: Jane

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 1:43 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

Ok it's now obvious to me that there's more to the story-

Because someone has nicely been asked to stop and can't respect boundaries.

HOW anyone thinks a possible molesting has anything to do with a homosexuality is beyond me-

My guess is there's more to the reason the school made the allegations- I have never heard of anyone calling protective services because a kid masturbates too much-

But I get stupid in the schools so it's possible-

But research molesting- its an act of violance- not anything else at all.Sent from my iPhone

For the love of Pete. Its not up to you to worn or save anybody. Ever heard of love thy neighbor? It didnt say love them only if they arent sinners. This is a board for AUTISM, not a Im going to shove my religion down your collective throat! How many times do people have to politely tell you off? --- Original Message ---From: Carolyn <mailto:charper777%40comcast.net>Sent: May 7, 2012 5/7/12To: mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: Help! Sex problem! It may come as a surprise to some of you that not all of us condone this. As a Christian I do not condone it but go by the Bible. I am sorry it upsets so many people these days, but the Bible does still call it sin and an abomination to God. I don’t hate anybody in fact I think I love them because I am willing to put my neck on the chopping block and warn them. If they do not repent and turn from this sin they will go to Hell. Jesus Christ is the only one who can save a person from this kind of bondage. So there I have said it, if you want to hate me go ahead. I have warned you out of love. There are millions of Christians in this world who believe the same way, so hate us all if you want to, while you preach against hate. Kind of confusing. We love you! Jesus loves you! He died to save you! Just saying. Carolyn From: Jane Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:46 AMTo: mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem! Yep! Not to mention homosexuality has nothing to do with molestation question- Jane- and since u qualified ur sexual orientation;Strait- but not narrow- left narrow behind long time ago when I realized love is a better choice than hate.Sent from my iPhoneOn May 7, 2012, at 1:32 PM, Terri Eagen-Torkko <mailto:torkko%40gmail.com> wrote: With all due respect, Carolyn, please just take 's input on the whole lesbian thing and don't say more about it. Everything in your first paragraph is wrong. What you describe is butch-femme relationships--not every lesbian relationship is butch-femme and not every butch-femme relationship is lesbian. Please, just do some reading before you say more about your theories on sexuality on this list. TerriLesbian mom, not a butch or a femme, kid on the spectrum On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Carolyn <mailto:charper777%40comcast.net> wrote: Where I thought it had relevance was maybe they were thinking that the older brother was assigning the role of female to the younger brother. Since he said to the counselor that his brother calls him a girl. I have noticed in lesbian relationships it appears the assign the role of male to one of them, and the role of female to the other, and yet they are both females. Just believe that they jumped the gun there as not all people do that. Many if not most are just male or female and do not assign roles. Anyway I didn’t do anything, just trying to follow their leading and understand what they are saying, which I think is pure rubbage in the case of my two grandsons! Carolyn From: L. Sweetman Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:14 AMTo: mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem! First, let me say that I'm not certain how there being lesbians at his school has any relevance nor what you mean by that orientation having anything to do with the supposed claims. It, frankly, has absolutely no connection. Assuming it does will likely do more harm than good as will feeling you so emphatically need to say you are NOT of that orientation (as if there is some sort of unwritten code that is tied to sexual orientation). If that becomes part of your argument to the school, you risk alienating people who might otherwise be on your side. That being said, masturbation is fairly common in children of all sorts regardless of whether or not they have ASD or any other diagnosis. It is a normal part of human development. It is fairly common as a stim for our kids with ASD, though. How parents and family respond affects children in multiple ways, some being tied to self-esteem, body image, and later sexual beliefs others being tied to where or how often they do it (especially in children who, like you say of your grandson, like to push the buttons of the adults around them). Kids are smart. They can very quickly identify what freaks us out and will, in some cases, then do that over and over and over. Our daughter has had a series of stims over the years. Currently, it is a mind-numbingly annoying snorting/sniffing sound that shakes the rafters. When she was 5 and starting kindergarten, though, it was masturbating. We worked with the school on putting a few things in place to make it a bit less easy for her (for a time, we changed her clothes to limit access. She stopped wearing dresses and skirts. She also had an issue with lifting her dress/skirt up as high as she could, so this tackled two birds with one stone). We and the school also worked on helping her learn what is for public and what is for private. This was especially important because simply telling a child who is stimming to stop doesn't usually work. They are doing it because they need the stimulation and just saying " No " without providing an opportunity for the needed stimulation or an alternative that provides the same sensory input usually won't be effective. When she was at home, if she

-- Terri D. Eagen-TorkkoFull-time feminist event planner, freelance editor, 24/7 bonus mom

May 8, 2012

If you're including me in the "why are you fighting"Yes my kids issues are enough- but because of his issues I have transformed into someone who passively stays quiet into someone who speaks out.When I read the woman's letter- I get bad-Schools do crazy stuff-But it's important to me as a survivor of childhood molest- to set the myths from facts- molesting has nothing to do with sex, or sexual choice!Sent from my iPhone

While I understand your question, D, this isn't a theoretical (or theological) exercise for me. My kid's on the spectrum. I'm a lesbian. I'm part of this list. This woman's busy waxing whatever about what lesbians do, how queer suicides are the price you pay for sin, blah blah blah.

I wish I COULD set it aside and get back to talking about what's pertinent to this list. But this, right here, IS pertinent to my life. I will not stand by and let her go on and on unchallenged in this space or elsewhere.

tt

I don't understand why people are fighting on here. Don't we have enough problems just getting through the day with our children?

To: "autism-aspergers " <autism-aspergers >

Sent:

Monday, May 7, 2012 4:58 PM Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

No, Carolyn. I asked you to stop. Twice!

To: autism-aspergers

Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 4:57 PM Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

Iâ€™m sorry as I do not now what you asked me to stop. ??

Anyway my daughter has talked to the counselor at the school since this morning, and she interviewed my grandson and is content that my older grandson did not molest him as she had first suspected. So thank God he gets to be left out of it.

So she said that Childrenâ€™s Services have been called off for now. It really upset my daughter but I talked her down best I could, and prayed for her and the situation and the Lord stepped in and helped us all.

Could have gotten out of hand. Things do get out of hand and he could have been suspended.

Carolyn

From: Jane

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 1:43 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

Ok it's now obvious to me that there's more to the story-

Because someone has nicely been asked to stop and can't respect boundaries.

HOW anyone thinks a possible molesting has anything to do with a homosexuality is beyond me-

My guess is there's more to the reason the school made the allegations- I have never heard of anyone calling protective services because a kid masturbates too much-

But I get stupid in the schools so it's possible-

But research molesting- its an act of violance- not anything else at all.Sent from my iPhone

For the love of Pete. Its not up to you to worn or save anybody. Ever heard of love thy neighbor? It didnt say love them only if they arent sinners. This is a board for AUTISM, not a Im going to shove my religion down your collective throat! How many times do people have to politely tell you off? --- Original Message ---From: Carolyn <mailto:charper777%40comcast.net>Sent: May 7, 2012 5/7/12To: mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: Help! Sex problem! It may come as a surprise to some of you that not all of us condone this. As a Christian I do not condone it but go by the Bible. I am sorry it upsets so many people these days, but the Bible does still call it sin and an abomination to God. I donâ€™t hate anybody in fact I think I love them because I am willing to put my neck on the chopping block and warn them. If they do not repent and turn from this sin they will go to Hell. Jesus Christ is the only one who can save a person from this kind of bondage. So there I have said it, if you want to hate me go ahead. I have warned you out of love. There are millions of Christians in this world who believe the same way, so hate us all if you want to, while you preach against hate. Kind of confusing. We love you! Jesus loves you! He died to save you! Just saying. Carolyn From: Jane Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:46 AMTo: mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem! Yep! Not to mention homosexuality has nothing to do with molestation question- Jane- and since u qualified ur sexual orientation;Strait- but not narrow- left narrow behind long time ago when I realized love is a better choice than hate.Sent from my iPhoneOn May 7, 2012, at 1:32 PM, Terri Eagen-Torkko <mailto:torkko%40gmail.com> wrote: With all due respect, Carolyn, please just take 's input on the whole lesbian thing and don't say more about it. Everything in your first paragraph is wrong. What you describe is butch-femme relationships--not every lesbian relationship is butch-femme and not every butch-femme relationship is lesbian. Please, just do some reading before you say more about your theories on sexuality on this list. TerriLesbian mom, not a butch or a femme, kid on the spectrum On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Carolyn <mailto:charper777%40comcast.net> wrote: Where I thought it had relevance was maybe they were thinking that the older brother was assigning the role of female to the younger brother. Since he said to the counselor that his brother calls him a girl. I have noticed in lesbian relationships it appears the assign the role of male to one of them, and the role of female to the other, and yet they are both females. Just believe that they jumped the gun there as not all people do that. Many if not most are just male or female and do not assign roles. Anyway I didnâ€™t do anything, just trying to follow their leading and understand what they are saying, which I think is pure rubbage in the case of my two grandsons! Carolyn From: L. Sweetman Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:14 AMTo: mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem! First, let me say that I'm not certain how there being lesbians at his school has any relevance nor what you mean by that orientation having anything to do with the supposed claims. It, frankly, has absolutely no connection. Assuming it does will likely do more harm than good as will feeling you so emphatically need to say you are NOT of that orientation (as if there is some sort of unwritten code that is tied to sexual orientation). If that becomes part of your argument to the school, you risk alienating people who might otherwise be on your side. That being said, masturbation is fairly common in children of all sorts regardless of whether or not they have ASD or any other diagnosis. It is a normal part of human development. It is fairly common as a stim for our kids with ASD, though. How parents and family respond affects children in multiple ways, some being tied to self-esteem, body image, and later sexual beliefs others being tied to where or how often they do it (especially in children who, like you say of your grandson, like to push the buttons of the adults around them). Kids are smart. They can very quickly identify what freaks us out and will, in some cases, then do that over and over and over. Our daughter has had a series of stims over the years. Currently, it is a mind-numbingly annoying snorting/sniffing sound that shakes the rafters. When she was 5 and starting kindergarten, though, it was masturbating. We worked with the school on putting a few things in place to make it a bit less easy for her (for a time, we changed her clothes to limit access. She stopped wearing dresses and skirts. She also had an issue with lifting her dress/skirt up as high as she could, so this tackled two birds with one stone). We and the school also worked on helping her learn what is for public and what is for private. This was especially important because simply telling a child who is stimming to stop doesn't usually work. They are doing it because they need the stimulation and just saying "No" without providing an opportunity for the needed stimulation or an alternative that provides the same sensory input usually won't be effective. When she was at home, if she

-- Terri D. Eagen-TorkkoFull-time feminist event planner, freelance editor, 24/7 bonus mom

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May 8, 2012

I Sent from my iPhone

While I understand your question, D, this isn't a theoretical (or theological) exercise for me. My kid's on the spectrum. I'm a lesbian. I'm part of this list. This woman's busy waxing whatever about what lesbians do, how queer suicides are the price you pay for sin, blah blah blah.

I wish I COULD set it aside and get back to talking about what's pertinent to this list. But this, right here, IS pertinent to my life. I will not stand by and let her go on and on unchallenged in this space or elsewhere.

tt

I don't understand why people are fighting on here. Don't we have enough problems just getting through the day with our children?

To: "autism-aspergers " <autism-aspergers >

Sent:

Monday, May 7, 2012 4:58 PM Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

No, Carolyn. I asked you to stop. Twice!

To: autism-aspergers

Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 4:57 PM Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

Iâ€™m sorry as I do not now what you asked me to stop. ??

Anyway my daughter has talked to the counselor at the school since this morning, and she interviewed my grandson and is content that my older grandson did not molest him as she had first suspected. So thank God he gets to be left out of it.

So she said that Childrenâ€™s Services have been called off for now. It really upset my daughter but I talked her down best I could, and prayed for her and the situation and the Lord stepped in and helped us all.

Could have gotten out of hand. Things do get out of hand and he could have been suspended.

Carolyn

From: Jane

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 1:43 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

Ok it's now obvious to me that there's more to the story-

Because someone has nicely been asked to stop and can't respect boundaries.

HOW anyone thinks a possible molesting has anything to do with a homosexuality is beyond me-

My guess is there's more to the reason the school made the allegations- I have never heard of anyone calling protective services because a kid masturbates too much-

But I get stupid in the schools so it's possible-

But research molesting- its an act of violance- not anything else at all.Sent from my iPhone

For the love of Pete. Its not up to you to worn or save anybody. Ever heard of love thy neighbor? It didnt say love them only if they arent sinners. This is a board for AUTISM, not a Im going to shove my religion down your collective throat! How many times do people have to politely tell you off? --- Original Message ---From: Carolyn <mailto:charper777%40comcast.net>Sent: May 7, 2012 5/7/12To: mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: Help! Sex problem! It may come as a surprise to some of you that not all of us condone this. As a Christian I do not condone it but go by the Bible. I am sorry it upsets so many people these days, but the Bible does still call it sin and an abomination to God. I donâ€™t hate anybody in fact I think I love them because I am willing to put my neck on the chopping block and warn them. If they do not repent and turn from this sin they will go to Hell. Jesus Christ is the only one who can save a person from this kind of bondage. So there I have said it, if you want to hate me go ahead. I have warned you out of love. There are millions of Christians in this world who believe the same way, so hate us all if you want to, while you preach against hate. Kind of confusing. We love you! Jesus loves you! He died to save you! Just saying. Carolyn From: Jane Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:46 AMTo: mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem! Yep! Not to mention homosexuality has nothing to do with molestation question- Jane- and since u qualified ur sexual orientation;Strait- but not narrow- left narrow behind long time ago when I realized love is a better choice than hate.Sent from my iPhoneOn May 7, 2012, at 1:32 PM, Terri Eagen-Torkko <mailto:torkko%40gmail.com> wrote: With all due respect, Carolyn, please just take 's input on the whole lesbian thing and don't say more about it. Everything in your first paragraph is wrong. What you describe is butch-femme relationships--not every lesbian relationship is butch-femme and not every butch-femme relationship is lesbian. Please, just do some reading before you say more about your theories on sexuality on this list. TerriLesbian mom, not a butch or a femme, kid on the spectrum On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Carolyn <mailto:charper777%40comcast.net> wrote: Where I thought it had relevance was maybe they were thinking that the older brother was assigning the role of female to the younger brother. Since he said to the counselor that his brother calls him a girl. I have noticed in lesbian relationships it appears the assign the role of male to one of them, and the role of female to the other, and yet they are both females. Just believe that they jumped the gun there as not all people do that. Many if not most are just male or female and do not assign roles. Anyway I didnâ€™t do anything, just trying to follow their leading and understand what they are saying, which I think is pure rubbage in the case of my two grandsons! Carolyn From: L. Sweetman Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:14 AMTo: mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem! First, let me say that I'm not certain how there being lesbians at his school has any relevance nor what you mean by that orientation having anything to do with the supposed claims. It, frankly, has absolutely no connection. Assuming it does will likely do more harm than good as will feeling you so emphatically need to say you are NOT of that orientation (as if there is some sort of unwritten code that is tied to sexual orientation). If that becomes part of your argument to the school, you risk alienating people who might otherwise be on your side. That being said, masturbation is fairly common in children of all sorts regardless of whether or not they have ASD or any other diagnosis. It is a normal part of human development. It is fairly common as a stim for our kids with ASD, though. How parents and family respond affects children in multiple ways, some being tied to self-esteem, body image, and later sexual beliefs others being tied to where or how often they do it (especially in children who, like you say of your grandson, like to push the buttons of the adults around them). Kids are smart. They can very quickly identify what freaks us out and will, in some cases, then do that over and over and over. Our daughter has had a series of stims over the years. Currently, it is a mind-numbingly annoying snorting/sniffing sound that shakes the rafters. When she was 5 and starting kindergarten, though, it was masturbating. We worked with the school on putting a few things in place to make it a bit less easy for her (for a time, we changed her clothes to limit access. She stopped wearing dresses and skirts. She also had an issue with lifting her dress/skirt up as high as she could, so this tackled two birds with one stone). We and the school also worked on helping her learn what is for public and what is for private. This was especially important because simply telling a child who is stimming to stop doesn't usually work. They are doing it because they need the stimulation and just saying "No" without providing an opportunity for the needed stimulation or an alternative that provides the same sensory input usually won't be effective. When she was at home, if she

-- Terri D. Eagen-TorkkoFull-time feminist event planner, freelance editor, 24/7 bonus mom

May 8, 2012

You might like to point out that there are very few younger brothers

who have not been called a girl by their older brothers.Â When you

need an insult for another boy, it is a convenient one.Â I wouldn't

worry about assigning roles, etc.Â It is just the school jumping to

conclusions.Â If you haven't noticed, there is a 'moral panic' at

the moment about sexual abuse of children.Â All organisations are

panicked by such things, mostly because they don't want a lawsuit.Â

It is like the panic over 'stranger danger'.Â Â Everyone keeps their

kids in sight at all times, just in case, even though there is a

much higher chance of a kid being run over by a school bus than

being abducted.Â Kids do get abducted, kids do get sexually abused,

but the panic is out of proportion to the reality.Â I have heard

more than one mother say she would never leave her daughter at home

with her older brother 'just in case'.Â It seems the more we do to

protect our kids from every possible danger, the more

adults we end up with who can't cope with reality.Â The world is

crazy, and too many people do things to increase the craziness.Â

Â

Where I thought it had relevance was

maybe they were thinking that the older brother was

assigning the role of female to the younger brother.

Since he said to the counselor that his brother

calls him a girl. I have noticed in lesbian

relationships it appears the assign the role of male

to one of them, and the role of female to the other,

and yet they are both females.

Â

Just believe that they jumped the

gun there as not allÂ people do that. Many if not

most are just male or female and do not assign

roles.

Â

Anyway I didnï¿½t do anything, just

trying to follow their leading and understand what

they are saying, which I think is pure rubbage in

the case of my two grandsons!

Â

CarolynÂ

Â

From: L.

Sweetman

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:14 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help!

Sex problem!

Â

First, let me say that I'm not certain how there

being lesbians at his school has any relevance nor

what you mean by that orientation having anything

to do with the supposed claims. It, frankly, has

absolutely no connection.Â Assuming it does will

likely do more harm than good as will feeling you

so emphatically need to say you are NOT of that

orientation (as if there is some sort of unwritten

code that is tied to sexual orientation). If that

becomes part of your argument to the school, you

risk alienating people who might otherwise be on

your side.

Â

That being said, masturbation is fairly common

in children of all sorts regardless of whether or

not they have ASD or any other diagnosis. It is a

normal part of human development. It is fairly

common as a stim for our kids with ASD, though.

How parents and family respond affects children in

multiple ways, some being tied to self-esteem,

body image, and later sexual beliefs others being

tied to where or how often they do it (especially

in children who, like you say of your grandson,

like to push the buttons of the adults around

them). Kids are smart. They can very quickly

identify what freaks us out and will, in some

cases, then do that over and over and over.

Â

Our daughter has had a series of stims over the

years. Currently, it is a mind-numbingly annoying

snorting/sniffing sound that shakes the rafters.

When she was 5 and starting kindergarten, though,

it was masturbating. We worked with the school on

putting a few things in place to make it a bit

less easy for her (for a time, we changed her

clothes to limit access. She stopped wearing

dresses and skirts. She also had an issue with

lifting her dress/skirt up as high as she could,

so this tackled two birds with one stone). We and

the school also worked on helping her learn what

is for public and what is for private. This was

especially important because simply telling a

child who is stimming to stop doesn't usually

work. They are doing it because they need the

stimulation and just saying "No" without providing

an opportunity for the needed stimulation or an

alternative that provides the same sensory input

usually won't be effective. When she was at home,

if she wanted to masturbate we let her so long as

she took the appropriate steps to make it a

private activity (i.e. going to her room). It took

a couple weeks, but then the public masturbation

stopped. It likely continued in her room, but that

is exactly as we told her it should. Of course,

this requires that the adults in the child's life

are able to get over their own issues related to

masturbation, if they have any.

Â

We have actually found that the public/private

lesson we taught her then has come in handy in

other ways. Currently, she is doing a lot of

exploration of language so being clear on what she

can say at home and what she can say at school has

been useful (my husband and I do not believe there

is any such thing as a "bad" word, just words that

society has decided are more or less acceptable in

different situations).

Â

Best,

Â

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at

12:21 PM, Carolyn

wrote:

Â

Hello

everybody.

Â

I need your

help and input here! My

daughter just took her son to

school this morning and then

she called me quite upset

because the counselor there

reported to my daughter that

my grandson has been playing a

lot with his private parts at

school. Well he does it here

too and we tell him to stop

it. He enjoys fondling himself

and wears sweat pants all the

time because he hates jeans

and belts so can easily get

his hands in his pants. I

think he is doing it as a self

stimulation and it has nothing

to do with anything sexual

really. He is 7 years old and

in 2nd grade. Also he likes to

do things to get a rise out of

adults, such as he will say

bad cuss words but when I tell

him to stop he stops.

Â

Well

evidentially they have been

talking to him at school quite

a bit and have been coaching

him on what they think might

be happening with leading

questions about his older

brother who is 11. And

evidentially my grandson said

that his older brother calls

him a girl. Well they tease

and fight all the time and say

all sorts of things to each

other. Donï¿½t all brothers do

that I wonder!

Â

It took me

awhile to ï¿½get itï¿½ as my

daughter was talking today,

and it finally came to me that

that stupid school thinks that

my older grandson is

performing some sort of sexual

act upon his younger brother

and that is why he is calling

him a girl!!

Â

Aaaaa! There

are many lesbians there at

school and not that this is a

bad thing, but we are NOT of

that orientation and so it

took us awhile to get what

they were getting at!

Â

The school

counselor today said she is

going to have to report it to

the department of child

services. And my daughter does

not know what to do because

her child has autism and says

and does all sorts of

inappropriate things!

Â

Can any of you

relate to this and tell us

what you did? Please?

Â

Maybe some

examples written out from you

guys I can print out and she

can take them to the school

counselor there to see

examples of how this was

handled in other. She has a

masters degree in special ed

with a specialty in autism she

says.

Â

Thank you,

Carolyn a very

concerned grandma right now in

Oregon

Â

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found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2425/4984 - Release Date:

05/07/12

May 8, 2012

When my son was about 11 he was interested in the human body.Â Just

another machine to him.Â He took the book he was reading to church

with him.Â It was only when we heard a stir from the older teenagers

sitting behind us that we realised he was up to the chapter on

reproduction.Â We let him read on.Â If the teenagers didn't already

know it, it was time they learnt

Â

Wow- just wow.

For one- sexual orientation has nothing to do with

sexual molestation.Â

Studies confirm most perpetrators are heterosexual

males.

For two- calling someone a girl doesn't make them a

molester-

For three- a 7 year old touching themselves could be

anything including sexual- sexual feelings don't just one

day emerge at a certain age- preschool kids touch

themselves because that part of their body has feel good

zones.

Four- I never told my children Â not to masturbate- call

me too progressive- but they own their sexuality- but they

need to go to a private place- autistic or not.

Five- they called child services? Really? Without the

child stating he's being molested???? Wow.

wow is all I can say- no behaviorist to teach him where

to appropriately do this?Â

My 11 year old is going through puberty- the irony of

autism to me is that puberty and hormones come on time

while their social skills are delayed- I have also found

that this child is more open- in your face with his

hormonal experiences then my first son who kept everything

private and modest. Some days my 11 year olds frankness

takes me back- I think perhaps it's the under developed

social skills that keeps it more- out in the open- or his

obsessiveness to keep talking about what he's thinking

over and over again-

But that's MY issue- not his so I have to redefine

puberty in my house-

What else is new? I'm constantly redefining while

living with autism.

Life is a blossoming rose I tell myself- recheck my

values- perceptions- and re define what is important.

I have no advice to you- it's your path- you shared- so

I shared some of my thoughts-Â

Jane

Sent from my iPhone

On May 7, 2012, at 12:21 PM, "Carolyn"

wrote:

Â

Hello everybody.

Â

I need your help and input

here! My daughter just took her son to school

this morning and then she called me quite

upset because the counselor there reported to

my daughter that my grandson has been playing

a lot with his private parts at school. Well

he does it here too and we tell him to stop

it. He enjoys fondling himself and wears sweat

pants all the time because he hates jeans and

belts so can easily get his hands in his

pants. I think he is doing it as a self

stimulation and it has nothing to do with

anything sexual really. He is 7 years old and

in 2nd grade. Also he likes to do things to

get a rise out of adults, such as he will say

bad cuss words but when I tell him to stop he

stops.

Â

Well evidentially they have

been talking to him at school quite a bit and

have been coaching him on what they think

might be happening with leading questions

about his older brother who is 11. And

evidentially my grandson said that his older

brother calls him a girl. Well they tease and

fight all the time and say all sorts of things

to each other. Donâ€™t all brothers do that I

wonder!

Â

It took me awhile to â€œget itâ€

as my daughter was talking today, and it

finally came to me that that stupid school

thinks that my older grandson is performing

some sort of sexual act upon his younger

brother and that is why he is calling him a

girl!!

Â

Aaaaa! There are many lesbians

there at school and not that this is a bad

thing, but we are NOT of that orientation and

so it took us awhile to get what they were

getting at!

Â

The school counselor today

said she is going to have to report it to the

department of child services. And my daughter

does not know what to do because her child has

autism and says and does all sorts of

inappropriate things!

Â

Can any of you relate to this

and tell us what you did? Please?

Â

Maybe some examples written

out from you guys I can print out and she can

take them to the school counselor there to see

examples of how this was handled in other. She

has a masters degree in special ed with a

specialty in autism she says.

Â

Thank you,

Carolyn a very concerned

grandma right now in Oregon

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found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2425/4984 - Release Date:

05/07/12

May 8, 2012

Carolyn

Please refrain from "Christians believe" reports.Â There are a

number of denominations who not only accept homosexuality, but

actually will ordain homosexuals as priests/pastors - and even as

bishops - and believe the Bible supports their position.Â Whatever

you believe, you will find millions of Christians who agree with

you, and millions of Christians who won't.Â A little humility about

being sure they are right wouldn't hurt either side.Â All I will say

on the issue is that all is not as simple as many believe.Â Having a

degree in theology and social science, I think I am qualified to

make that observation.Â What you believe is up to you, but please

think about how you say it before going public.Â And this is not the

place to warn or preach.

Â

It may come as a surprise to some of

you that not all of us condone this. As a Christian

I do not condone it but go by the Bible. I am sorry

it upsets so many people these days, but the Bible

does still call it sin and an abomination to God. I

donâ€™t hate anybody in fact I think I love them

because I am willing to put my neck on the chopping

block and warn them. If they do not repent and turn

from this sin they will go to Hell. Jesus Christ is

the only one who can save a person from this kind of

bondage.

Â

So there IÂ have said it, if you

want to hate me go ahead. I have warned you out of

love. There are millions of Christians in this world

who believe the same way, so hate us all if you want

to, while you preach against hate.

Â

Kind of confusing.

Â

We love you! Jesus loves you! He

died to save you!

Â

Just saying.

Â

Carolyn

Â

From: Jane

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:46 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help!

Sex problem!

Â

Yep!

Not to mention homosexuality has nothing to do

with molestation question-

Â

Jane

- and since u qualified ur sexual orientation;

Strait- but not narrow- left narrow behind long

time ago when I realized love is a better choice

than hate.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 7, 2012, at 1:32 PM, Terri Eagen-Torkko

wrote:

Â

With all due respect, Carolyn, please just

take 's input on the whole lesbian

thing and don't say more about it.

Everything in your first paragraph is wrong.

What you describe is butch-femme

relationships--not every lesbian

relationship is butch-femme and not every

butch-femme relationship is lesbian. Please,

just do some reading before you say more

about your theories on sexuality on this

list.

Â

Terri

Lesbian mom, not a butch or a femme, kid

on the spectrum

Â

On Mon, May 7,

2012 at 1:26 PM, Carolyn

wrote:

Â

Where

I thought it had

relevance was maybe

they were thinking

that the older brother

was assigning the role

of female to the

younger brother. Since

he said to the

counselor that his

brother calls him a

girl. I have noticed

in lesbian

relationships it

appears the assign the

role of male to one of

them, and the role of

female to the other,

and yet they are both

females.

Â

Just

believe that they

jumped the gun there

as not allÂ people do

that. Many if not most

are just male or

female and do not

assign roles.

Â

Anyway

I didnâ€™t do anything,

just trying to follow

their leading and

understand what they

are saying, which I

think is pure rubbage

in the case of my two

grandsons!

Â

CarolynÂ

Â

From:

L. Sweetman

Sent:

Monday, May 07,

2012 10:14 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject:

Re:

Help! Sex problem!

Â

First, let me

say that I'm not

certain how

there being

lesbians at his

school has any

relevance nor

what you mean by

that orientation

having anything

to do with the

supposed claims.

It, frankly, has

absolutely no

connection.Â

Assuming it does

will likely do

more harm than

good as will

feeling you so

emphatically

need to say you

are NOT of that

orientation (as

if there is some

sort of

unwritten code

that is tied to

sexual

orientation). If

that becomes

part of your

argument to the

school, you risk

alienating

people who might

otherwise be on

your side.

Â

That being

said,

masturbation is

fairly common in

children of all

sorts regardless

of whether or

not they have

ASD or any other

diagnosis. It is

a normal part of

human

development. It

is fairly common

as a stim for

our kids with

ASD, though. How

parents and

family respond

affects children

in multiple

ways, some being

tied to

self-esteem,

body image, and

later sexual

beliefs others

being tied to

where or how

often they do it

(especially in

children who,

like you say of

your grandson,

like to push the

buttons of the

adults around

them). Kids are

smart. They can

very quickly

identify what

freaks us out

and will, in

some cases, then

do that over and

over and over.

Â

Our daughter

has had a series

of stims over

the years.

Currently, it is

a mind-numbingly

annoying

snorting/sniffing

sound that

shakes the

rafters. When

she was 5 and

starting

kindergarten,

though, it was

masturbating. We

worked with the

school on

putting a few

things in place

to make it a bit

less easy for

her (for a time,

we changed her

clothes to limit

access. She

stopped wearing

dresses and

skirts. She also

had an issue

with lifting her

dress/skirt up

as high as she

could, so this

tackled two

birds with one

stone). We and

the school also

worked on

helping her

learn what is

for public and

what is for

private. This

was especially

important

because simply

telling a child

who is stimming

to stop doesn't

usually work.

They are doing

it because they

need the

stimulation and

just saying "No"

without

providing an

opportunity for

the needed

stimulation or

an alternative

that provides

the same sensory

input usually

won't be

effective. When

she was at home,

if she wanted to

masturbate we

let her so long

as she took the

appropriate

steps to make it

a private

activity (i.e.

going to her

room). It took a

couple weeks,

but then the

public

masturbation

stopped. It

likely continued

in her room, but

that is exactly

as we told her

it should. Of

course, this

requires that

the adults in

the child's life

are able to get

over their own

issues related

to masturbation,

if they have

any.

Â

We have

actually found

that the

public/private

lesson we taught

her then has

come in handy in

other ways.

Currently, she

is doing a lot

of exploration

of language so

being clear on

what she can say

at home and what

she can say at

school has been

useful (my

husband and I do

not believe

there is any

such thing as a

"bad" word, just

words that

society has

decided are more

or less

acceptable in

different

situations).

Â

Best,

Â

On

Mon, May 7,

2012 at 12:21

PM, Carolyn

wrote:

Â

Hello

everybody.

Â

I

need your help

and input

here! My

daughter just

took her son

to school this

morning and

then she

called me

quite upset

because the

counselor

there reported

to my daughter

that my

grandson has

been playing a

lot with his

private parts

at school.

Well he does

it here too

and we tell

him to stop

it. He enjoys

fondling

himself and

wears sweat

pants all the

time because

he hates jeans

and belts so

can easily get

his hands in

his pants. I

think he is

doing it as a

self

stimulation

and it has

nothing to do

with anything

sexual really.

He is 7 years

old and in 2nd

grade. Also he

likes to do

things to get

a rise out of

adults, such

as he will say

bad cuss words

but when I

tell him to

stop he stops.

Â

Well

evidentially

they have been

talking to him

at school

quite a bit

and have been

coaching him

on what they

think might be

happening with

leading

questions

about his

older brother

who is 11. And

evidentially

my grandson

said that his

older brother

calls him a

girl. Well

they tease and

fight all the

time and say

all sorts of

things to each

other. Donâ€™t

all brothers

do that I

wonder!

Â

It

took me awhile

to â€œget itâ€ as

my daughter

was talking

today, and it

finally came

to me that

that stupid

school thinks

that my older

grandson is

performing

some sort of

sexual act

upon his

younger

brother and

that is why he

is calling him

a girl!!

Â

Aaaaa!

There are many

lesbians there

at school and

not that this

is a bad

thing, but we

are NOT of

that

orientation

and so it took

us awhile to

get what they

were getting

at!

Â

The

school

counselor

today said she

is going to

have to report

it to the

department of

child

services. And

my daughter

does not know

what to do

because her

child has

autism and

says and does

all sorts of

inappropriate

things!

Â

Can

any of you

relate to this

and tell us

what you did?

Please?

Â

Maybe

some examples

written out

from you guys

I can print

out and she

can take them

to the school

counselor

there to see

examples of

how this was

handled in

other. She has

a masters

degree in

special ed

with a

specialty in

autism she

says.

Â

Thank

you,

Carolyn

a very

concerned

grandma right

now in Oregon

Â

--

Terri D. Eagen-Torkko

Full-time feminist event planner,

freelance editor, 24/7 bonus mom

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Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2425/4984 - Release Date:

05/07/12

May 8, 2012

Carolyn

If it turned out you were wrong, and God accepts homosexuals just

like every other kind of sinner, how would you feel about Christians

being responsible for the death of so many people who have been

bullied into suicide by Christians constantly telling them they are

going to hell and therefore are worthless?Â You cannot call that

preaching - it is bullying.Â Even if you are correct, do you really

believe God accepts as innocent those who bully others to the point

that death is better than life?Â There is no record of Jesus

condemning homosexuality, and only one record where he probably came

into contact with one (and no, you have never heard that preached in

church, and not likely to - look up 'beloved servant' and consider

it almost always means a servant who is also his masters lover), and

it may be worthwhile considering his response to that person.Â The

problem with the Bible is that, the more you read it, the less

clearly it supports our own ideas.Â There is no text on

homosexuality that says what it would be expected to say if it were

saying only what many people think it says.Â There is a lot of stuff

on the internet if you want to read it, so let's leave the

discussion at that.

Â

Just a little more food for thought.

All you lukewarm Christians out there buying this

garbage that we are all mean and judgmental and

homo-phobic, could you not be a part of this problem

also? Because if we are promoting that the views of

the Bible that condemn sin are wrong, and that Jesus

Christ dying on a cross to save us from sin is

wrong, and Him taking stripes for our healing and

deliverance is wrong, then arenï¿½t we a part of the

problem.

Â

Then people especially young people

who have never heard the truth will reject the only

way of hope, deliverance, and salvation, and are

doomed to hell forever!

Â

I sure donï¿½t want to be a part of

sending anybody to hell because I taught lies. It is

a hard road to go and nobody is going to like you at

all, maybe they will even hate you and who knows

kill you, but weï¿½ve just got to do it anyway. They

killed Jesus for warning them of things to come and

telling them to repent.

Â

We can follow Him if we must.

Â

Carolyn

Â

From: Carolyn

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 12:19 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help!

Sex problem!

Â

Yes I can see we need not

discuss this topic here. Just remember that

the suggestion that my grandsons may be

involved in this type of activity began at

the elementary school today and did not come

from me. Evidentially it has been discussed

at the elementary school without inviting

the parentï¿½s input.

Â

Just one thing in closing

this topic from my end. I haveÂ been a

Christian for nearly forty years now. I

believed in Jesus Christ before then but

made a serious commitment to Him in 1973

when I began to seek Him about my epileptic

and autistic son. I prayed for healing for

my son and strength to be a good wife and

his mother, and the mother of my other three

children. First thing the Lord did for me

was deliver me from alcohol.

Â

Anyway over this time as you

can imagine I have seen many changes come to

our culture, with gay rights being one of

the main so called human rights issues being

fought. To me though it has always seemed to

be more of a political issue, rather than

sexual and I did attend the university for

six years and attained two degrees, one

advanced, so am a thinker by nature.

Â

The lie has gained such

proportions lately that it was threatening

to pull me in. Wonï¿½t go into the lie take

too much time, just saying those who want to

condone things as not being sinful when they

are. We are all sinners, are born into a

sinful nature. So really being gay or

lesbian is not the biggest sin at all, but

those involved in it are just much moreÂ

militant in judge those who tell them this,

what the Bible says about their particular

sin.

Â

So the other day I was

sitting waiting for a doctor appointment and

The Rolling Stone happened to be lying there

and I read a whole article in it about nine

gay high school students who had committed

suicide over a rather short time, not sure

where it was, but Colorado comes to mind.

Well of course I was appalled at this, who

would ever not be. But the gist of the

article blamed Christians, saying that their

judgment had caused these young people to

commit suicide.

Â

And I thought, wait a

minute! Their sin and rebellion had caused

them to commit suicide, not Christians who

believe in preaching the gospel of Jesus

Christ for their salvation! It appeared to

me these nine simply turned salvation down

and chose another path. It happens. I would

sure like to prevent more of them from doing

this, but wondered how.

Â

And Jesus pretty much

impressed upon me that He was still the

answer for sin. This has been true for 2,000

years and it has not changed. And my job as

a Christian was to boldly keep preaching and

not be concerned if people hate me or

persecute me, as this is going to happen

more and more in these last days. People are

really going to hate and persecute

Christians more than has ever happened

before.

Â

So everybody has a choice

which way they chose to go. They can blame

Christians, who did not put them into the

bondage they are in, or they can chose the

way out.

Â

He is Jesus Christ! He will

save you and He will deliver you of any and

every thing,Â He has the power to do so!

Â

Please look at it from the

perspective of a caring loving Christian

woman who was forced to take a stand in this

world we live in. Because that is what you

are reading right here!

Â

Isnï¿½t the Internet

something.

Â

Carolyn in Oregon

Â

From:

L. Sweetman

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012

11:58 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re:

Help! Sex problem!

Â

Wow. Just...wow. I'm having a very hard

time figuring out how to even respond. I

suppose, in part, this is because you are

continuing to insist that sexual

orientation has anything to do with this.

Let me put it plainly: it doesn't. What

you have "noticed" about other people's

relationships and your "understanding" of

sexual orientation is entirely wrapped up

in your own biases and has nothing to do

with what is actually going on. In fact,

the slightest bit of research in human

sexuality or even just history will show

you that heterosexuality is where the

definition of gender roles comes from.

Â

And believe me, I'm pretty sure there's

not a person in the US who doesn't know

that some people don't "condone"

homosexuality (as if they have a right to

decide who and what to condone in the

first place). That has been made

abundantly clear for centuries.

Â

I will end this there because, as I

have already said a couple times, the

discussion of who may or may not be of

what sexual orientation and how you

think that might impact what they may or

may not be doing is completely

irrelevant to the issue. I don't expect

to have much impact in educating you

about something where you have clearly

defined, if highly inaccurate, views. I

will, though, reiterate that you and

your family will be best served moving

forward in conversations with the school

if this is not part of your argument. As

a parent, a former educator, and a

special education advocate, your

insistence that one has anything to do

with the other serves only to undermine

your position. You will not win support

from people who you insult and condemn.

You will be forcing them into a

defensive position rather than a

cooperative one. Taking this sort of

stance will not assist your grandson and

will not improve this situation.

Â

On Mon, May

7, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Carolyn

wrote:

Â

Where

I thought it had

relevance was

maybe they were

thinking that the

older brother was

assigning the role

of female to the

younger brother.

Since he said to

the counselor that

his brother calls

him a girl. I have

noticed in lesbian

relationships it

appears the assign

the role of male

to one of them,

and the role of

female to the

other, and yet

they are both

females.

Â

Just

believe that they

jumped the gun

there as not allÂ

people do that.

Many if not most

are just male or

female and do not

assign roles.

Â

Anyway

I didnï¿½t do

anything, just

trying to follow

their leading and

understand what

they are saying,

which I think is

pure rubbage in

the case of my two

grandsons!

Â

CarolynÂ

Â

From:

L. Sweetman

Sent:

Monday, May

07, 2012 10:14

AM

To:

autism-aspergers

Subject:

Re:

Help! Sex

problem!

Â

First, let

me say that

I'm not

certain how

there being

lesbians at

his school has

any relevance

nor what you

mean by that

orientation

having

anything to do

with the

supposed

claims. It,

frankly, has

absolutely no

connection.Â

Assuming it

does will

likely do more

harm than good

as will

feeling you so

emphatically

need to say

you are NOT of

that

orientation

(as if there

is some sort

of unwritten

code that is

tied to sexual

orientation).

If that

becomes part

of your

argument to

the school,

you risk

alienating

people who

might

otherwise be

on your side.

Â

That

being said,

masturbation

is fairly

common in

children of

all sorts

regardless of

whether or not

they have ASD

or any other

diagnosis. It

is a normal

part of human

development.

It is fairly

common as a

stim for our

kids with ASD,

though. How

parents and

family respond

affects

children in

multiple ways,

some being

tied to

self-esteem,

body image,

and later

sexual beliefs

others being

tied to where

or how often

they do it

(especially in

children who,

like you say

of your

grandson, like

to push the

buttons of the

adults around

them). Kids

are smart.

They can very

quickly

identify what

freaks us out

and will, in

some cases,

then do that

over and over

and over.

Â

Our

daughter has

had a series

of stims over

the years.

Currently, it

is a

mind-numbingly

annoying

snorting/sniffing

sound that

shakes the

rafters. When

she was 5 and

starting

kindergarten,

though, it was

masturbating.

We worked with

the school on

putting a few

things in

place to make

it a bit less

easy for her

(for a time,

we changed her

clothes to

limit access.

She stopped

wearing

dresses and

skirts. She

also had an

issue with

lifting her

dress/skirt up

as high as she

could, so this

tackled two

birds with one

stone). We and

the school

also worked on

helping her

learn what is

for public and

what is for

private. This

was especially

important

because simply

telling a

child who is

stimming to

stop doesn't

usually work.

They are doing

it because

they need the

stimulation

and just

saying "No"

without

providing an

opportunity

for the needed

stimulation or

an alternative

that provides

the same

sensory input

usually won't

be effective.

When she was

at home, if

she wanted to

masturbate we

let her so

long as she

took the

appropriate

steps to make

it a private

activity (i.e.

going to her

room). It took

a couple

weeks, but

then the

public

masturbation

stopped. It

likely

continued in

her room, but

that is

exactly as we

told her it

should. Of

course, this

requires that

the adults in

the child's

life are able

to get over

their own

issues related

to

masturbation,

if they have

any.

Â

We have

actually found

that the

public/private

lesson we

taught her

then has come

in handy in

other ways.

Currently, she

is doing a lot

of exploration

of language so

being clear on

what she can

say at home

and what she

can say at

school has

been useful

(my husband

and I do not

believe there

is any such

thing as a

"bad" word,

just words

that society

has decided

are more or

less

acceptable in

different

situations).

Â

Best,

Â

On

Mon, May 7,

2012 at 12:21

PM, Carolyn

wrote:

Â

Hello

everybody.

Â

I

need your help

and input

here! My

daughter just

took her son

to school this

morning and

then she

called me

quite upset

because the

counselor

there reported

to my daughter

that my

grandson has

been playing a

lot with his

private parts

at school.

Well he does

it here too

and we tell

him to stop

it. He enjoys

fondling

himself and

wears sweat

pants all the

time because

he hates jeans

and belts so

can easily get

his hands in

his pants. I

think he is

doing it as a

self

stimulation

and it has

nothing to do

with anything

sexual really.

He is 7 years

old and in 2nd

grade. Also he

likes to do

things to get

a rise out of

adults, such

as he will say

bad cuss words

but when I

tell him to

stop he stops.

Â

Well

evidentially

they have been

talking to him

at school

quite a bit

and have been

coaching him

on what they

think might be

happening with

leading

questions

about his

older brother

who is 11. And

evidentially

my grandson

said that his

older brother

calls him a

girl. Well

they tease and

fight all the

time and say

all sorts of

things to each

other. Donï¿½t

all brothers

do that I

wonder!

Â

It

took me awhile

to ï¿½get itï¿½ as

my daughter

was talking

today, and it

finally came

to me that

that stupid

school thinks

that my older

grandson is

performing

some sort of

sexual act

upon his

younger

brother and

that is why he

is calling him

a girl!!

Â

Aaaaa!

There are many

lesbians there

at school and

not that this

is a bad

thing, but we

are NOT of

that

orientation

and so it took

us awhile to

get what they

were getting

at!

Â

The

school

counselor

today said she

is going to

have to report

it to the

department of

child

services. And

my daughter

does not know

what to do

because her

child has

autism and

says and does

all sorts of

inappropriate

things!

Â

Can

any of you

relate to this

and tell us

what you did?

Please?

Â

Maybe

some examples

written out

from you guys

I can print

out and she

can take them

to the school

counselor

there to see

examples of

how this was

handled in

other. She has

a masters

degree in

special ed

with a

specialty in

autism she

says.

Â

Thank

you,

Carolyn

a very

concerned

grandma right

now in Oregon

Â

No virus

found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2425/4984 - Release Date:

05/07/12

May 8, 2012

Masturbation is purely a privacy issue IMO.Â All boys do it

sometimes, and need to be taught where and when is appropriate.Â It

has nothing to do with gender or sexual orientation, and I have very

serious doubts that 99.99% of boys have been molested.Â It's in

situations like this that fathers can be useful.Â It's always hard

for a mother to tell her son what she did when she was a boy

Â

I have worked with many children who exhibit this behavior

of inappropriate self touch. It has a lot more to do with

a social filter deficit than anything sexual. Also if

their senses are heightened it may feel very calming. I

would recommend social stories to teach privacy in regards

to this. I would also try to get an advocate to be there

at this meeting with you to explain this unfortunate

misunderstood situation. Good luck!

--------------------------- >Hello everybody. > >I need

your help and input here! My daughter just took her son to

school this morning and then she called me quite upset

because the counselor there reported to my daughter that

my grandson has been playing a lot with his private parts

at school. Well he does it here too and we tell him to

stop it. He enjoys fondling himself and wears sweat pants

all the time because he hates jeans and belts so can

easily get his hands in

his pants. I think he is doing it as a self stimulation

and it has nothing to do with anything sexual really. He

is 7 years old and in 2nd grade. Also he likes to do

things to get a rise out of adults, such as he will say

bad cuss words but when I tell him to stop he stops. >

>Well evidentially they have been talking to him at

school quite a bit and have been coaching him on what they

think might be happening with leading questions about his

older brother who is 11. And evidentially my grandson said

that his older brother calls him a girl. Well they tease

and fight all the time and say all sorts of things to each

other. Donâ€™t all brothers do that I wonder! > >It

took me awhile to â€œget itâ€ as my daughter was talking

today, and it finally came to me that that stupid school

thinks that my older grandson is performing some sort of

sexual act upon his younger brother and that is why he is

calling him a girl!! > >Aaaaa! There are many

lesbians there at

school and not that this is a bad thing, but we are NOT of

that orientation and so it took us awhile to get what they

were getting at! > >The school counselor today said

she is going to have to report it to the department of

child services. And my daughter does not know what to do

because her child has autism and says and does all sorts

of inappropriate things! > >Can any of you relate to

this and tell us what you did? Please? > >Maybe some

examples written out from you guys I can print out and she

can take them to the school counselor there to see

examples of how this was handled in other. She has a

masters degree in special ed with a specialty in autism

she says. > >Thank you, >Carolyn a very concerned

grandma right now in Oregon

No virus

found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2425/4984 - Release Date:

05/07/12

May 8, 2012

Carolyn - and others

I think it is a time for a reminder of how to write about religion

here. I am not going to ban mentioning religion of any sort - or of

lack of religion. Religion is a part of life and does not need to

be hidden in the bedroom or closet. But there are acceptable and

unacceptable ways of writing about it. It comes down to one basic

principle - respect other people and their beliefs. And respect

does not in any way imply that everyone is free to post what they

like. It has to go both ways. If you don't want to see a sermon

extolling Islam or Hinduism, and warning of what your fate will be

if you don't accept it, don't preach one extolling (your brand of)

Christianity.

Acceptable: Writing about how your faith helps you cope. Writing

about how prayer, meditation and other 'spiritual' practices help

you cope. Sharing what you believe if you are directly asked to do

so - but keep it brief and as uncontroversial as possible.

Unacceptable: Preaching what your church believes, or what you

believe, on any doctrine or practice - even if you believe it is

directly related to autism. Warning others what will happen to them

now, in the future, or in the afterlife (should you believe in it)

if people don't believe what you believe. This list is not,

and never has been, a forum for convincing others that your

religious views are correct. It is not even the right

forum for convincing others that your views on autism are correct.

The post on Lucas didn't really need any mention of lesbians,

homosexuality, assigned gender roles (all are, by the way - gender

is not natural in the way that sex is), or many other things where

you were 'thinking out loud'. The school jumped to a conclusion

that was unwarranted. Even if Lucas' older brother was a

devil-worshipping homosexual, it has nothing to do with him sexually

abusing a younger brother. I doubt any of the lesbians in the

school were assuming that Lucas' brother was calling him a girl

because he was sexually abusing him and assigning him the role of

'female'. I am sure they are smart enough to realise Lucas' brother

is smarter than that and they would would more likely assume he is

being what a cousin (youngest of 6 boys) of mine refers to as a

'typical arsehole of an older brother'. No other explanation is

needed for anyone who deals with boys regularly.

If you want to remain a part of this group, please do not ever

mention that you believe suicide victims are the cause of their own

death. Too many of us are either dealing with family members who

suffer from depression, etc, and talk or plan suicide or have

been/are there ourselves. My wife's cousin lost her husband to

suicide yesterday after a long struggle with depression.

[moderator]

Just a little more food for thought.

All you lukewarm Christians out there buying this

garbage that we are all mean and judgmental and

homo-phobic, could you not be a part of this problem

also? Because if we are promoting that the views of

the Bible that condemn sin are wrong, and that Jesus

Christ dying on a cross to save us from sin is

wrong, and Him taking stripes for our healing and

deliverance is wrong, then aren’t we a part of the

problem.

Then people especially young people

who have never heard the truth will reject the only

way of hope, deliverance, and salvation, and are

doomed to hell forever!

I sure don’t want to be a part of

sending anybody to hell because I taught lies. It is

a hard road to go and nobody is going to like you at

all, maybe they will even hate you and who knows

kill you, but we’ve just got to do it anyway. They

killed Jesus for warning them of things to come and

telling them to repent.

We can follow Him if we must.

Carolyn

From: Carolyn

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 12:19 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help!

Sex problem!

Yes I can see we need not

discuss this topic here. Just remember that

the suggestion that my grandsons may be

involved in this type of activity began at

the elementary school today and did not come

from me. Evidentially it has been discussed

at the elementary school without inviting

the parent’s input.

Just one thing in closing

this topic from my end. I have been a

Christian for nearly forty years now. I

believed in Jesus Christ before then but

made a serious commitment to Him in 1973

when I began to seek Him about my epileptic

and autistic son. I prayed for healing for

my son and strength to be a good wife and

his mother, and the mother of my other three

children. First thing the Lord did for me

was deliver me from alcohol.

Anyway over this time as you

can imagine I have seen many changes come to

our culture, with gay rights being one of

the main so called human rights issues being

fought. To me though it has always seemed to

be more of a political issue, rather than

sexual and I did attend the university for

six years and attained two degrees, one

advanced, so am a thinker by nature.

The lie has gained such

proportions lately that it was threatening

to pull me in. Won’t go into the lie take

too much time, just saying those who want to

condone things as not being sinful when they

are. We are all sinners, are born into a

sinful nature. So really being gay or

lesbian is not the biggest sin at all, but

those involved in it are just much more

militant in judge those who tell them this,

what the Bible says about their particular

sin.

So the other day I was

sitting waiting for a doctor appointment and

The Rolling Stone happened to be lying there

and I read a whole article in it about nine

gay high school students who had committed

suicide over a rather short time, not sure

where it was, but Colorado comes to mind.

Well of course I was appalled at this, who

would ever not be. But the gist of the

article blamed Christians, saying that their

judgment had caused these young people to

commit suicide.

And I thought, wait a

minute! Their sin and rebellion had caused

them to commit suicide, not Christians who

believe in preaching the gospel of Jesus

Christ for their salvation! It appeared to

me these nine simply turned salvation down

and chose another path. It happens. I would

sure like to prevent more of them from doing

this, but wondered how.

And Jesus pretty much

impressed upon me that He was still the

answer for sin. This has been true for 2,000

years and it has not changed. And my job as

a Christian was to boldly keep preaching and

not be concerned if people hate me or

persecute me, as this is going to happen

more and more in these last days. People are

really going to hate and persecute

Christians more than has ever happened

before.

So everybody has a choice

which way they chose to go. They can blame

Christians, who did not put them into the

bondage they are in, or they can chose the

way out.

He is Jesus Christ! He will

save you and He will deliver you of any and

every thing, He has the power to do so!

Please look at it from the

perspective of a caring loving Christian

woman who was forced to take a stand in this

world we live in. Because that is what you

are reading right here!

Isn’t the Internet

something.

Carolyn in Oregon

From:

L. Sweetman

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012

11:58 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re:

Help! Sex problem!

Wow. Just...wow. I'm having a very hard

time figuring out how to even respond. I

suppose, in part, this is because you are

continuing to insist that sexual

orientation has anything to do with this.

Let me put it plainly: it doesn't. What

you have "noticed" about other people's

relationships and your "understanding" of

sexual orientation is entirely wrapped up

in your own biases and has nothing to do

with what is actually going on. In fact,

the slightest bit of research in human

sexuality or even just history will show

you that heterosexuality is where the

definition of gender roles comes from.

And believe me, I'm pretty sure there's

not a person in the US who doesn't know

that some people don't "condone"

homosexuality (as if they have a right to

decide who and what to condone in the

first place). That has been made

abundantly clear for centuries.

I will end this there because, as I

have already said a couple times, the

discussion of who may or may not be of

what sexual orientation and how you

think that might impact what they may or

may not be doing is completely

irrelevant to the issue. I don't expect

to have much impact in educating you

about something where you have clearly

defined, if highly inaccurate, views. I

will, though, reiterate that you and

your family will be best served moving

forward in conversations with the school

if this is not part of your argument. As

a parent, a former educator, and a

special education advocate, your

insistence that one has anything to do

with the other serves only to undermine

your position. You will not win support

from people who you insult and condemn.

You will be forcing them into a

defensive position rather than a

cooperative one. Taking this sort of

stance will not assist your grandson and

will not improve this situation.

On Mon, May

7, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Carolyn

wrote:

Where

I thought it had

relevance was

maybe they were

thinking that the

older brother was

assigning the role

of female to the

younger brother.

Since he said to

the counselor that

his brother calls

him a girl. I have

noticed in lesbian

relationships it

appears the assign

the role of male

to one of them,

and the role of

female to the

other, and yet

they are both

females.

Just

believe that they

jumped the gun

there as not all

people do that.

Many if not most

are just male or

female and do not

assign roles.

Anyway

I didn’t do

anything, just

trying to follow

their leading and

understand what

they are saying,

which I think is

pure rubbage in

the case of my two

grandsons!

Carolyn

From:

L. Sweetman

Sent:

Monday, May

07, 2012 10:14

AM

To:

autism-aspergers

Subject:

Re:

Help! Sex

problem!

First, let

me say that

I'm not

certain how

there being

lesbians at

his school has

any relevance

nor what you

mean by that

orientation

having

anything to do

with the

supposed

claims. It,

frankly, has

absolutely no

connection.

Assuming it

does will

likely do more

harm than good

as will

feeling you so

emphatically

need to say

you are NOT of

that

orientation

(as if there

is some sort

of unwritten

code that is

tied to sexual

orientation).

If that

becomes part

of your

argument to

the school,

you risk

alienating

people who

might

otherwise be

on your side.

That

being said,

masturbation

is fairly

common in

children of

all sorts

regardless of

whether or not

they have ASD

or any other

diagnosis. It

is a normal

part of human

development.

It is fairly

common as a

stim for our

kids with ASD,

though. How

parents and

family respond

affects

children in

multiple ways,

some being

tied to

self-esteem,

body image,

and later

sexual beliefs

others being

tied to where

or how often

they do it

(especially in

children who,

like you say

of your

grandson, like

to push the

buttons of the

adults around

them). Kids

are smart.

They can very

quickly

identify what

freaks us out

and will, in

some cases,

then do that

over and over

and over.

Our

daughter has

had a series

of stims over

the years.

Currently, it

is a

mind-numbingly

annoying

snorting/sniffing

sound that

shakes the

rafters. When

she was 5 and

starting

kindergarten,

though, it was

masturbating.

We worked with

the school on

putting a few

things in

place to make

it a bit less

easy for her

(for a time,

we changed her

clothes to

limit access.

She stopped

wearing

dresses and

skirts. She

also had an

issue with

lifting her

dress/skirt up

as high as she

could, so this

tackled two

birds with one

stone). We and

the school

also worked on

helping her

learn what is

for public and

what is for

private. This

was especially

important

because simply

telling a

child who is

stimming to

stop doesn't

usually work.

They are doing

it because

they need the

stimulation

and just

saying "No"

without

providing an

opportunity

for the needed

stimulation or

an alternative

that provides

the same

sensory input

usually won't

be effective.

When she was

at home, if

she wanted to

masturbate we

let her so

long as she

took the

appropriate

steps to make

it a private

activity (i.e.

going to her

room). It took

a couple

weeks, but

then the

public

masturbation

stopped. It

likely

continued in

her room, but

that is

exactly as we

told her it

should. Of

course, this

requires that

the adults in

the child's

life are able

to get over

their own

issues related

to

masturbation,

if they have

any.

We have

actually found

that the

public/private

lesson we

taught her

then has come

in handy in

other ways.

Currently, she

is doing a lot

of exploration

of language so

being clear on

what she can

say at home

and what she

can say at

school has

been useful

(my husband

and I do not

believe there

is any such

thing as a

"bad" word,

just words

that society

has decided

are more or

less

acceptable in

different

situations).

Best,

On

Mon, May 7,

2012 at 12:21

PM, Carolyn

wrote:

Hello

everybody.

I

need your help

and input

here! My

daughter just

took her son

to school this

morning and

then she

called me

quite upset

because the

counselor

there reported

to my daughter

that my

grandson has

been playing a

lot with his

private parts

at school.

Well he does

it here too

and we tell

him to stop

it. He enjoys

fondling

himself and

wears sweat

pants all the

time because

he hates jeans

and belts so

can easily get

his hands in

his pants. I

think he is

doing it as a

self

stimulation

and it has

nothing to do

with anything

sexual really.

He is 7 years

old and in 2nd

grade. Also he

likes to do

things to get

a rise out of

adults, such

as he will say

bad cuss words

but when I

tell him to

stop he stops.

Well

evidentially

they have been

talking to him

at school

quite a bit

and have been

coaching him

on what they

think might be

happening with

leading

questions

about his

older brother

who is 11. And

evidentially

my grandson

said that his

older brother

calls him a

girl. Well

they tease and

fight all the

time and say

all sorts of

things to each

other. Don’t

all brothers

do that I

wonder!

It

took me awhile

to “get it” as

my daughter

was talking

today, and it

finally came

to me that

that stupid

school thinks

that my older

grandson is

performing

some sort of

sexual act

upon his

younger

brother and

that is why he

is calling him

a girl!!

Aaaaa!

There are many

lesbians there

at school and

not that this

is a bad

thing, but we

are NOT of

that

orientation

and so it took

us awhile to

get what they

were getting

at!

The

school

counselor

today said she

is going to

have to report

it to the

department of

child

services. And

my daughter

does not know

what to do

because her

child has

autism and

says and does

all sorts of

inappropriate

things!

Can

any of you

relate to this

and tell us

what you did?

Please?

Maybe

some examples

written out

from you guys

I can print

out and she

can take them

to the school

counselor

there to see

examples of

how this was

handled in

other. She has

a masters

degree in

special ed

with a

specialty in

autism she

says.

Thank

you,

Carolyn

a very

concerned

grandma right

now in Oregon

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May 8, 2012

I know better than to argue about this on here . But just thought I would take the opportunity to share a view held by millions of Christians throughout the world, and it is not a bad view at all, not judgmental, not condemning, but rather gives a way of hope for salvation and for deliverance from sin. I do not like the way it has been watered down and changed and distorted, and yes I know there are dozens of different views and was stating my own clearly with no ambivalence or debate.

Guess we will all find out one day in the end which view was correct. I know I preach Jesus Christ out of real true love for people and a true desire to help in their lives here on earth, and offer them life for all eternity. There is coming a huge revival in the years to come so the world will hear much much more of Christians preaching the truth, to give everybody a chance to choose.

Think about it anyway, donâ€™t make up your mind too quickly without really giving faith in God and in Christ a chance in your life!

Thanks for letting me share, God has helped me raise my son and he is 47 years old now, and I have joy and peace and strength, like I am sure I could never have attained any other way except through Jesus and His love and compassion for me. And He is the same towards everybody. He doesnâ€™t condemn but He saves, is why He died on the cross, to save us all from sin.

Carolyn

From: Riley

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 4:02 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

CarolynPlease refrain from "Christians believe" reports. There are a number of denominations who not only accept homosexuality, but actually will ordain homosexuals as priests/pastors - and even as bishops - and believe the Bible supports their position. Whatever you believe, you will find millions of Christians who agree with you, and millions of Christians who won't. A little humility about being sure they are right wouldn't hurt either side. All I will say on the issue is that all is not as simple as many believe. Having a degree in theology and social science, I think I am qualified to make that observation. What you believe is up to you, but please think about how you say it before going public. And this is not the place to warn or preach.

It may come as a surprise to some of you that not all of us condone this. As a Christian I do not condone it but go by the Bible. I am sorry it upsets so many people these days, but the Bible does still call it sin and an abomination to God. I donâ€™t hate anybody in fact I think I love them because I am willing to put my neck on the chopping block and warn them. If they do not repent and turn from this sin they will go to Hell. Jesus Christ is the only one who can save a person from this kind of bondage.

So there I have said it, if you want to hate me go ahead. I have warned you out of love. There are millions of Christians in this world who believe the same way, so hate us all if you want to, while you preach against hate.

Kind of confusing.

We love you! Jesus loves you! He died to save you!

Just saying.

Carolyn

From: Jane

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:46 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

Yep!

Not to mention homosexuality has nothing to do with molestation question-

Jane

- and since u qualified ur sexual orientation;

Strait- but not narrow- left narrow behind long time ago when I realized love is a better choice than hate.Sent from my iPhone

With all due respect, Carolyn, please just take 's input on the whole lesbian thing and don't say more about it. Everything in your first paragraph is wrong. What you describe is butch-femme relationships--not every lesbian relationship is butch-femme and not every butch-femme relationship is lesbian. Please, just do some reading before you say more about your theories on sexuality on this list.

Terri

Lesbian mom, not a butch or a femme, kid on the spectrum

Where I thought it had relevance was maybe they were thinking that the older brother was assigning the role of female to the younger brother. Since he said to the counselor that his brother calls him a girl. I have noticed in lesbian relationships it appears the assign the role of male to one of them, and the role of female to the other, and yet they are both females.

Just believe that they jumped the gun there as not all people do that. Many if not most are just male or female and do not assign roles.

Anyway I didnâ€™t do anything, just trying to follow their leading and understand what they are saying, which I think is pure rubbage in the case of my two grandsons!

Carolyn

From: L. Sweetman

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:14 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

First, let me say that I'm not certain how there being lesbians at his school has any relevance nor what you mean by that orientation having anything to do with the supposed claims. It, frankly, has absolutely no connection. Assuming it does will likely do more harm than good as will feeling you so emphatically need to say you are NOT of that orientation (as if there is some sort of unwritten code that is tied to sexual orientation). If that becomes part of your argument to the school, you risk alienating people who might otherwise be on your side.

That being said, masturbation is fairly common in children of all sorts regardless of whether or not they have ASD or any other diagnosis. It is a normal part of human development. It is fairly common as a stim for our kids with ASD, though. How parents and family respond affects children in multiple ways, some being tied to self-esteem, body image, and later sexual beliefs others being tied to where or how often they do it (especially in children who, like you say of your grandson, like to push the buttons of the adults around them). Kids are smart. They can very quickly identify what freaks us out and will, in some cases, then do that over and over and over.

Our daughter has had a series of stims over the years. Currently, it is a mind-numbingly annoying snorting/sniffing sound that shakes the rafters. When she was 5 and starting kindergarten, though, it was masturbating. We worked with the school on putting a few things in place to make it a bit less easy for her (for a time, we changed her clothes to limit access. She stopped wearing dresses and skirts. She also had an issue with lifting her dress/skirt up as high as she could, so this tackled two birds with one stone). We and the school also worked on helping her learn what is for public and what is for private. This was especially important because simply telling a child who is stimming to stop doesn't usually work. They are doing it because they need the stimulation and just saying "No" without providing an opportunity for the needed stimulation or an alternative that provides the same sensory input usually won't be effective. When she was at home, if she wanted to masturbate we let her so long as she took the appropriate steps to make it a private activity (i.e. going to her room). It took a couple weeks, but then the public masturbation stopped. It likely continued in her room, but that is exactly as we told her it should. Of course, this requires that the adults in the child's life are able to get over their own issues related to masturbation, if they have any.

We have actually found that the public/private lesson we taught her then has come in handy in other ways. Currently, she is doing a lot of exploration of language so being clear on what she can say at home and what she can say at school has been useful (my husband and I do not believe there is any such thing as a "bad" word, just words that society has decided are more or less acceptable in different situations).

Best,

Hello everybody.

I need your help and input here! My daughter just took her son to school this morning and then she called me quite upset because the counselor there reported to my daughter that my grandson has been playing a lot with his private parts at school. Well he does it here too and we tell him to stop it. He enjoys fondling himself and wears sweat pants all the time because he hates jeans and belts so can easily get his hands in his pants. I think he is doing it as a self stimulation and it has nothing to do with anything sexual really. He is 7 years old and in 2nd grade. Also he likes to do things to get a rise out of adults, such as he will say bad cuss words but when I tell him to stop he stops.

Well evidentially they have been talking to him at school quite a bit and have been coaching him on what they think might be happening with leading questions about his older brother who is 11. And evidentially my grandson said that his older brother calls him a girl. Well they tease and fight all the time and say all sorts of things to each other. Donâ€™t all brothers do that I wonder!

It took me awhile to â€œget itâ€ as my daughter was talking today, and it finally came to me that that stupid school thinks that my older grandson is performing some sort of sexual act upon his younger brother and that is why he is calling him a girl!!

Aaaaa! There are many lesbians there at school and not that this is a bad thing, but we are NOT of that orientation and so it took us awhile to get what they were getting at!

The school counselor today said she is going to have to report it to the department of child services. And my daughter does not know what to do because her child has autism and says and does all sorts of inappropriate things!

Can any of you relate to this and tell us what you did? Please?

Maybe some examples written out from you guys I can print out and she can take them to the school counselor there to see examples of how this was handled in other. She has a masters degree in special ed with a specialty in autism she says.

Thank you,

Carolyn a very concerned grandma right now in Oregon

-- Terri D. Eagen-TorkkoFull-time feminist event planner, freelance editor, 24/7 bonus mom

Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (5)

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May 8, 2012

God does accept them, He died for them! He just does not accept sin, we cannot go to Heaven with bondage to sin in our lives. People donâ€™t have to reject Godâ€™s love for them just because they are homosexual.

This is not true!

Carolyn

From: Riley

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 4:16 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

CarolynIf it turned out you were wrong, and God accepts homosexuals just like every other kind of sinner, how would you feel about Christians being responsible for the death of so many people who have been bullied into suicide by Christians constantly telling them they are going to hell and therefore are worthless? You cannot call that preaching - it is bullying. Even if you are correct, do you really believe God accepts as innocent those who bully others to the point that death is better than life? There is no record of Jesus condemning homosexuality, and only one record where he probably came into contact with one (and no, you have never heard that preached in church, and not likely to - look up 'beloved servant' and consider it almost always means a servant who is also his masters lover), and it may be worthwhile considering his response to that person. The problem with the Bible is that, the more you read it, the less clearly it supports our own ideas. There is no text on homosexuality that says what it would be expected to say if it were saying only what many people think it says. There is a lot of stuff on the internet if you want to read it, so let's leave the discussion at that.

Just a little more food for thought. All you lukewarm Christians out there buying this garbage that we are all mean and judgmental and homo-phobic, could you not be a part of this problem also? Because if we are promoting that the views of the Bible that condemn sin are wrong, and that Jesus Christ dying on a cross to save us from sin is wrong, and Him taking stripes for our healing and deliverance is wrong, then arenï¿½t we a part of the problem.

Then people especially young people who have never heard the truth will reject the only way of hope, deliverance, and salvation, and are doomed to hell forever!

I sure donï¿½t want to be a part of sending anybody to hell because I taught lies. It is a hard road to go and nobody is going to like you at all, maybe they will even hate you and who knows kill you, but weï¿½ve just got to do it anyway. They killed Jesus for warning them of things to come and telling them to repent.

We can follow Him if we must.

Carolyn

From: Carolyn

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 12:19 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

Yes I can see we need not discuss this topic here. Just remember that the suggestion that my grandsons may be involved in this type of activity began at the elementary school today and did not come from me. Evidentially it has been discussed at the elementary school without inviting the parentï¿½s input.

Just one thing in closing this topic from my end. I have been a Christian for nearly forty years now. I believed in Jesus Christ before then but made a serious commitment to Him in 1973 when I began to seek Him about my epileptic and autistic son. I prayed for healing for my son and strength to be a good wife and his mother, and the mother of my other three children. First thing the Lord did for me was deliver me from alcohol.

Anyway over this time as you can imagine I have seen many changes come to our culture, with gay rights being one of the main so called human rights issues being fought. To me though it has always seemed to be more of a political issue, rather than sexual and I did attend the university for six years and attained two degrees, one advanced, so am a thinker by nature.

The lie has gained such proportions lately that it was threatening to pull me in. Wonï¿½t go into the lie take too much time, just saying those who want to condone things as not being sinful when they are. We are all sinners, are born into a sinful nature. So really being gay or lesbian is not the biggest sin at all, but those involved in it are just much more militant in judge those who tell them this, what the Bible says about their particular sin.

So the other day I was sitting waiting for a doctor appointment and The Rolling Stone happened to be lying there and I read a whole article in it about nine gay high school students who had committed suicide over a rather short time, not sure where it was, but Colorado comes to mind. Well of course I was appalled at this, who would ever not be. But the gist of the article blamed Christians, saying that their judgment had caused these young people to commit suicide.

And I thought, wait a minute! Their sin and rebellion had caused them to commit suicide, not Christians who believe in preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ for their salvation! It appeared to me these nine simply turned salvation down and chose another path. It happens. I would sure like to prevent more of them from doing this, but wondered how.

And Jesus pretty much impressed upon me that He was still the answer for sin. This has been true for 2,000 years and it has not changed. And my job as a Christian was to boldly keep preaching and not be concerned if people hate me or persecute me, as this is going to happen more and more in these last days. People are really going to hate and persecute Christians more than has ever happened before.

So everybody has a choice which way they chose to go. They can blame Christians, who did not put them into the bondage they are in, or they can chose the way out.

He is Jesus Christ! He will save you and He will deliver you of any and every thing, He has the power to do so!

Please look at it from the perspective of a caring loving Christian woman who was forced to take a stand in this world we live in. Because that is what you are reading right here!

Isnï¿½t the Internet something.

Carolyn in Oregon

From: L. Sweetman

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 11:58 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

Wow. Just...wow. I'm having a very hard time figuring out how to even respond. I suppose, in part, this is because you are continuing to insist that sexual orientation has anything to do with this. Let me put it plainly: it doesn't. What you have "noticed" about other people's relationships and your "understanding" of sexual orientation is entirely wrapped up in your own biases and has nothing to do with what is actually going on. In fact, the slightest bit of research in human sexuality or even just history will show you that heterosexuality is where the definition of gender roles comes from.

And believe me, I'm pretty sure there's not a person in the US who doesn't know that some people don't "condone" homosexuality (as if they have a right to decide who and what to condone in the first place). That has been made abundantly clear for centuries.

I will end this there because, as I have already said a couple times, the discussion of who may or may not be of what sexual orientation and how you think that might impact what they may or may not be doing is completely irrelevant to the issue. I don't expect to have much impact in educating you about something where you have clearly defined, if highly inaccurate, views. I will, though, reiterate that you and your family will be best served moving forward in conversations with the school if this is not part of your argument. As a parent, a former educator, and a special education advocate, your insistence that one has anything to do with the other serves only to undermine your position. You will not win support from people who you insult and condemn. You will be forcing them into a defensive position rather than a cooperative one. Taking this sort of stance will not assist your grandson and will not improve this situation.

Where I thought it had relevance was maybe they were thinking that the older brother was assigning the role of female to the younger brother. Since he said to the counselor that his brother calls him a girl. I have noticed in lesbian relationships it appears the assign the role of male to one of them, and the role of female to the other, and yet they are both females.

Just believe that they jumped the gun there as not all people do that. Many if not most are just male or female and do not assign roles.

Anyway I didnï¿½t do anything, just trying to follow their leading and understand what they are saying, which I think is pure rubbage in the case of my two grandsons!

Carolyn

From: L. Sweetman

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:14 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

First, let me say that I'm not certain how there being lesbians at his school has any relevance nor what you mean by that orientation having anything to do with the supposed claims. It, frankly, has absolutely no connection. Assuming it does will likely do more harm than good as will feeling you so emphatically need to say you are NOT of that orientation (as if there is some sort of unwritten code that is tied to sexual orientation). If that becomes part of your argument to the school, you risk alienating people who might otherwise be on your side.

That being said, masturbation is fairly common in children of all sorts regardless of whether or not they have ASD or any other diagnosis. It is a normal part of human development. It is fairly common as a stim for our kids with ASD, though. How parents and family respond affects children in multiple ways, some being tied to self-esteem, body image, and later sexual beliefs others being tied to where or how often they do it (especially in children who, like you say of your grandson, like to push the buttons of the adults around them). Kids are smart. They can very quickly identify what freaks us out and will, in some cases, then do that over and over and over.

Our daughter has had a series of stims over the years. Currently, it is a mind-numbingly annoying snorting/sniffing sound that shakes the rafters. When she was 5 and starting kindergarten, though, it was masturbating. We worked with the school on putting a few things in place to make it a bit less easy for her (for a time, we changed her clothes to limit access. She stopped wearing dresses and skirts. She also had an issue with lifting her dress/skirt up as high as she could, so this tackled two birds with one stone). We and the school also worked on helping her learn what is for public and what is for private. This was especially important because simply telling a child who is stimming to stop doesn't usually work. They are doing it because they need the stimulation and just saying "No" without providing an opportunity for the needed stimulation or an alternative that provides the same sensory input usually won't be effective. When she was at home, if she wanted to masturbate we let her so long as she took the appropriate steps to make it a private activity (i.e. going to her room). It took a couple weeks, but then the public masturbation stopped. It likely continued in her room, but that is exactly as we told her it should. Of course, this requires that the adults in the child's life are able to get over their own issues related to masturbation, if they have any.

We have actually found that the public/private lesson we taught her then has come in handy in other ways. Currently, she is doing a lot of exploration of language so being clear on what she can say at home and what she can say at school has been useful (my husband and I do not believe there is any such thing as a "bad" word, just words that society has decided are more or less acceptable in different situations).

Best,

Hello everybody.

I need your help and input here! My daughter just took her son to school this morning and then she called me quite upset because the counselor there reported to my daughter that my grandson has been playing a lot with his private parts at school. Well he does it here too and we tell him to stop it. He enjoys fondling himself and wears sweat pants all the time because he hates jeans and belts so can easily get his hands in his pants. I think he is doing it as a self stimulation and it has nothing to do with anything sexual really. He is 7 years old and in 2nd grade. Also he likes to do things to get a rise out of adults, such as he will say bad cuss words but when I tell him to stop he stops.

Well evidentially they have been talking to him at school quite a bit and have been coaching him on what they think might be happening with leading questions about his older brother who is 11. And evidentially my grandson said that his older brother calls him a girl. Well they tease and fight all the time and say all sorts of things to each other. Donï¿½t all brothers do that I wonder!

It took me awhile to ï¿½get itï¿½ as my daughter was talking today, and it finally came to me that that stupid school thinks that my older grandson is performing some sort of sexual act upon his younger brother and that is why he is calling him a girl!!

Aaaaa! There are many lesbians there at school and not that this is a bad thing, but we are NOT of that orientation and so it took us awhile to get what they were getting at!

The school counselor today said she is going to have to report it to the department of child services. And my daughter does not know what to do because her child has autism and says and does all sorts of inappropriate things!

Can any of you relate to this and tell us what you did? Please?

Maybe some examples written out from you guys I can print out and she can take them to the school counselor there to see examples of how this was handled in other. She has a masters degree in special ed with a specialty in autism she says.

Thank you,

Carolyn a very concerned grandma right now in Oregon

No virus found in this message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2425/4984 - Release Date: 05/07/12

May 8, 2012

Carolyn

I am not judging your motives, but the sharing was out of place

here.Â One problem is that we all have religious languages that we

have learnt, and find them clear and easy.Â But others don't.Â If

you will forgive me for being blunt, you seem to speak a 'deep' form

of evangelical Christianese, and many of us do not respond well to

that, even if we actually agree with what is being said.Â You may

want to ponder (but not discuss on here) the thought that how you

say things can often lead to people not hearing what you really want

to say.Â This is not the place to just throw in your own beliefs

about religiously contentious issues, no matter what your motives

for doing so are.Â This is not a place for arguing religion, so if

you know people will either argue with, or be offended by, your

belief, don't say it.Â I have three younger sisters and two

children.Â I don't buy the argument that the person who brings up a

contentious issue is not guilty of causing an argument (just saying

what they think), but only the ones who argue with it.Â Don't post

any more on this subject.

Â

I know better than to argue about

this on here . But just thought I would take

the opportunity to share a view held by millions of

Christians throughout the world,Â and it is not a

bad view at all, not judgmental, not condemning, but

rather gives a way of hope for salvation and for

deliverance from sin. I do not like the way it has

been watered down and changed and distorted, and yes

I know there are dozens of different views and was

stating my own clearlyÂ with no ambivalence or

debate.

Â

Guess we will all find out one day

in the end which view was correct. I know I preach

Jesus Christ out of real true love for people and a

true desire to help in their lives here on earth,

and offer them life for all eternity. There is

coming a huge revival in the years to come so the

world will hear much much more of Christians

preaching the truth, to give everybody a chance to

choose.

Â

Think about it anyway, donâ€™t make up

your mind too quickly without really giving faith in

God and in Christ a chance in your life!

Â

Thanks for letting me share, God has

helped me raise my son and he is 47 years old now,

and I have joy and peace and strength, like I am

sure I could never have attained any other way

except through Jesus and His love and compassion for

me. And He is the same towards everybody. He doesnâ€™t

condemn but He saves, is why He died on the cross,

to save us all from sin.

Â

Carolyn

Â

From:

Riley

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 4:02 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help!

Sex problem!

Â

Carolyn

Please refrain from "Christians believe" reports.Â

There are a number of denominations who not only

accept homosexuality, but actually will ordain

homosexuals as priests/pastors - and even as

bishops - and believe the Bible supports their

position.Â Whatever you believe, you will find

millions of Christians who agree with you, and

millions of Christians who won't.Â A little

humility about being sure they are right wouldn't

hurt either side.Â All I will say on the issue is

that all is not as simple as many believe.Â Having

a degree in theology and social science, I think I

am qualified to make that observation.Â What you

believe is up to you, but please think about how

you say it before going public.Â And this is not

the place to warn or preach.

Â

It may come as a

surprise to some of you that not all of

us condone this. As a Christian I do not

condone it but go by the Bible. I am

sorry it upsets so many people these

days, but the Bible does still call it

sin and an abomination to God. I donâ€™t

hate anybody in fact I think I love them

because I am willing to put my neck on

the chopping block and warn them. If

they do not repent and turn from this

sin they will go to Hell. Jesus Christ

is the only one who can save a person

from this kind of bondage.

Â

So there IÂ have said

it, if you want to hate me go ahead. I

have warned you out of love. There are

millions of Christians in this world who

believe the same way, so hate us all if

you want to, while you preach against

hate.

Â

Kind of confusing.

Â

We love you! Jesus loves

you! He died to save you!

Â

Just saying.

Â

Carolyn

Â

From: Jane

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012

10:46 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re:

Help! Sex

problem!

Â

Yep!

Not to mention homosexuality has

nothing to do with molestation

question-

Â

Jane

- and since u qualified ur sexual

orientation;

Strait- but not narrow- left narrow

behind long time ago when I realized

love is a better choice than hate.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 7, 2012, at 1:32 PM, Terri

Eagen-Torkko

wrote:

Â

With all due respect, Carolyn,

please just take 's input

on the whole lesbian thing and

don't say more about it.

Everything in your first

paragraph is wrong. What you

describe is butch-femme

relationships--not every lesbian

relationship is butch-femme and

not every butch-femme

relationship is lesbian. Please,

just do some reading before you

say more about your theories on

sexuality on this list.

Â

Terri

Lesbian mom, not a butch or a

femme, kid on the spectrum

Â

On

Mon, May 7, 2012 at 1:26 PM,

Carolyn

wrote:

Â

Where

I thought it

had relevance

was maybe they

were thinking

that the older

brother was

assigning the

role of female

to the younger

brother. Since

he said to the

counselor that

his brother

calls him a

girl. I have

noticed in

lesbian

relationships

it appears the

assign the

role of male

to one of

them, and the

role of female

to the other,

and yet they

are both

females.

Â

Just

believe that

they jumped

the gun there

as not allÂ

people do

that. Many if

not most are

just male or

female and do

not assign

roles.

Â

Anyway

I didnâ€™t do

anything, just

trying to

follow their

leading and

understand

what they are

saying, which

I think is

pure rubbage

in the case of

my two

grandsons!

Â

CarolynÂ

Â

From:

L. Sweetman

Sent:

Monday, May

07, 2012 10:14

AM

To:

autism-aspergers

Subject:

Re:

Help! Sex

problem!

Â

First, let

me say that

I'm not

certain how

there being

lesbians at

his school has

any relevance

nor what you

mean by that

orientation

having

anything to do

with the

supposed

claims. It,

frankly, has

absolutely no

connection.Â

Assuming it

does will

likely do more

harm than good

as will

feeling you so

emphatically

need to say

you are NOT of

that

orientation

(as if there

is some sort

of unwritten

code that is

tied to sexual

orientation).

If that

becomes part

of your

argument to

the school,

you risk

alienating

people who

might

otherwise be

on your side.

Â

That

being said,

masturbation

is fairly

common in

children of

all sorts

regardless of

whether or not

they have ASD

or any other

diagnosis. It

is a normal

part of human

development.

It is fairly

common as a

stim for our

kids with ASD,

though. How

parents and

family respond

affects

children in

multiple ways,

some being

tied to

self-esteem,

body image,

and later

sexual beliefs

others being

tied to where

or how often

they do it

(especially in

children who,

like you say

of your

grandson, like

to push the

buttons of the

adults around

them). Kids

are smart.

They can very

quickly

identify what

freaks us out

and will, in

some cases,

then do that

over and over

and over.

Â

Our

daughter has

had a series

of stims over

the years.

Currently, it

is a

mind-numbingly

annoying

snorting/sniffing

sound that

shakes the

rafters. When

she was 5 and

starting

kindergarten,

though, it was

masturbating.

We worked with

the school on

putting a few

things in

place to make

it a bit less

easy for her

(for a time,

we changed her

clothes to

limit access.

She stopped

wearing

dresses and

skirts. She

also had an

issue with

lifting her

dress/skirt up

as high as she

could, so this

tackled two

birds with one

stone). We and

the school

also worked on

helping her

learn what is

for public and

what is for

private. This

was especially

important

because simply

telling a

child who is

stimming to

stop doesn't

usually work.

They are doing

it because

they need the

stimulation

and just

saying "No"

without

providing an

opportunity

for the needed

stimulation or

an alternative

that provides

the same

sensory input

usually won't

be effective.

When she was

at home, if

she wanted to

masturbate we

let her so

long as she

took the

appropriate

steps to make

it a private

activity (i.e.

going to her

room). It took

a couple

weeks, but

then the

public

masturbation

stopped. It

likely

continued in

her room, but

that is

exactly as we

told her it

should. Of

course, this

requires that

the adults in

the child's

life are able

to get over

their own

issues related

to

masturbation,

if they have

any.

Â

We have

actually found

that the

public/private

lesson we

taught her

then has come

in handy in

other ways.

Currently, she

is doing a lot

of exploration

of language so

being clear on

what she can

say at home

and what she

can say at

school has

been useful

(my husband

and I do not

believe there

is any such

thing as a

"bad" word,

just words

that society

has decided

are more or

less

acceptable in

different

situations).

Â

Best,

Â

On

Mon, May 7,

2012 at 12:21

PM, Carolyn

wrote:

Â

Hello

everybody.

Â

I

need your help

and input

here! My

daughter just

took her son

to school this

morning and

then she

called me

quite upset

because the

counselor

there reported

to my daughter

that my

grandson has

been playing a

lot with his

private parts

at school.

Well he does

it here too

and we tell

him to stop

it. He enjoys

fondling

himself and

wears sweat

pants all the

time because

he hates jeans

and belts so

can easily get

his hands in

his pants. I

think he is

doing it as a

self

stimulation

and it has

nothing to do

with anything

sexual really.

He is 7 years

old and in 2nd

grade. Also he

likes to do

things to get

a rise out of

adults, such

as he will say

bad cuss words

but when I

tell him to

stop he stops.

Â

Well

evidentially

they have been

talking to him

at school

quite a bit

and have been

coaching him

on what they

think might be

happening with

leading

questions

about his

older brother

who is 11. And

evidentially

my grandson

said that his

older brother

calls him a

girl. Well

they tease and

fight all the

time and say

all sorts of

things to each

other. Donâ€™t

all brothers

do that I

wonder!

Â

It

took me awhile

to â€œget itâ€ as

my daughter

was talking

today, and it

finally came

to me that

that stupid

school thinks

that my older

grandson is

performing

some sort of

sexual act

upon his

younger

brother and

that is why he

is calling him

a girl!!

Â

Aaaaa!

There are many

lesbians there

at school and

not that this

is a bad

thing, but we

are NOT of

that

orientation

and so it took

us awhile to

get what they

were getting

at!

Â

The

school

counselor

today said she

is going to

have to report

it to the

department of

child

services. And

my daughter

does not know

what to do

because her

child has

autism and

says and does

all sorts of

inappropriate

things!

Â

Can

any of you

relate to this

and tell us

what you did?

Please?

Â

Maybe

some examples

written out

from you guys

I can print

out and she

can take them

to the school

counselor

there to see

examples of

how this was

handled in

other. She has

a masters

degree in

special ed

with a

specialty in

autism she

says.

Â

Thank

you,

Carolyn

a very

concerned

grandma right

now in Oregon

Â

--

Terri D. Eagen-Torkko

Full-time feminist event

planner, freelance editor,

24/7 bonus mom

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Messages in this

topic (5)

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found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2425/4984 - Release Date:

05/07/12

May 8, 2012

Wow why not do like i did and delete the post? Instead of bashing her just saying..

May 8, 2012

Because I am the moderator of this group, and this is a long-running

discussion with Carolyn.Â I don't have the luxury of deleting posts

or choosing not to read any of them.Â Carolyn has been told many

times not to share her religious beliefs, especially when she knows

they will offend others.Â Repeating them while saying she knows not

to argue these issues here doesn't help her case.Â

[moderator]

Â

Wow why not do like i did and delete the

post?

Instead of bashing her just saying..

Â

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found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2425/4984 - Release Date:

05/07/12

May 8, 2012

I wonâ€™t share anymore. You are right though this is evangelism. Like Graham and his son have preached for decades. And many other evangelists. They just say it how it is and is offensive to some and quite wonderful to others who are looking for a way out of the burden to sin in their lives. I am direct and really donâ€™t see anything wrong with being direct. People just need to hear it directly I think and no beating about the bush that Jesus said He was the way, the truth, and the life and no man cometh to the father accept through me.

I do hope people think about what is said to them directly from the Gospel and not judge the person who is only delivering the Good News to them! But then Jesus said the world would hate us because He is in us.

I have never been able to understand why people hate Jesus and hate Christians. I think there has to be a whole lot of lying and deceiving going on, and people calling themselves Christians who actually are not truly.

I just hope people will read the Bible and began to seek in their hearts the truth of God through the Holy Spirit.

Jesus really does love us all!

If anybody is getting hate out of what I say and especially those who have known me for a long time on this list something has to be wrong with them, for they have no evidence to back up their claims that I am hateful and mean and judgmental. It is just so wrong.

Carolyn

From: Riley

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 6:58 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

CarolynI am not judging your motives, but the sharing was out of place here. One problem is that we all have religious languages that we have learnt, and find them clear and easy. But others don't. If you will forgive me for being blunt, you seem to speak a 'deep' form of evangelical Christianese, and many of us do not respond well to that, even if we actually agree with what is being said. You may want to ponder (but not discuss on here) the thought that how you say things can often lead to people not hearing what you really want to say. This is not the place to just throw in your own beliefs about religiously contentious issues, no matter what your motives for doing so are. This is not a place for arguing religion, so if you know people will either argue with, or be offended by, your belief, don't say it. I have three younger sisters and two children. I don't buy the argument that the person who brings up a contentious issue is not guilty of causing an argument (just saying what they think), but only the ones who argue with it. Don't post any more on this subject.

I know better than to argue about this on here . But just thought I would take the opportunity to share a view held by millions of Christians throughout the world, and it is not a bad view at all, not judgmental, not condemning, but rather gives a way of hope for salvation and for deliverance from sin. I do not like the way it has been watered down and changed and distorted, and yes I know there are dozens of different views and was stating my own clearly with no ambivalence or debate.

Guess we will all find out one day in the end which view was correct. I know I preach Jesus Christ out of real true love for people and a true desire to help in their lives here on earth, and offer them life for all eternity. There is coming a huge revival in the years to come so the world will hear much much more of Christians preaching the truth, to give everybody a chance to choose.

Think about it anyway, donâ€™t make up your mind too quickly without really giving faith in God and in Christ a chance in your life!

Thanks for letting me share, God has helped me raise my son and he is 47 years old now, and I have joy and peace and strength, like I am sure I could never have attained any other way except through Jesus and His love and compassion for me. And He is the same towards everybody. He doesnâ€™t condemn but He saves, is why He died on the cross, to save us all from sin.

Carolyn

From: Riley

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 4:02 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

CarolynPlease refrain from "Christians believe" reports. There are a number of denominations who not only accept homosexuality, but actually will ordain homosexuals as priests/pastors - and even as bishops - and believe the Bible supports their position. Whatever you believe, you will find millions of Christians who agree with you, and millions of Christians who won't. A little humility about being sure they are right wouldn't hurt either side. All I will say on the issue is that all is not as simple as many believe. Having a degree in theology and social science, I think I am qualified to make that observation. What you believe is up to you, but please think about how you say it before going public. And this is not the place to warn or preach.

It may come as a surprise to some of you that not all of us condone this. As a Christian I do not condone it but go by the Bible. I am sorry it upsets so many people these days, but the Bible does still call it sin and an abomination to God. I donâ€™t hate anybody in fact I think I love them because I am willing to put my neck on the chopping block and warn them. If they do not repent and turn from this sin they will go to Hell. Jesus Christ is the only one who can save a person from this kind of bondage.

So there I have said it, if you want to hate me go ahead. I have warned you out of love. There are millions of Christians in this world who believe the same way, so hate us all if you want to, while you preach against hate.

Kind of confusing.

We love you! Jesus loves you! He died to save you!

Just saying.

Carolyn

From: Jane

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:46 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

Yep!

Not to mention homosexuality has nothing to do with molestation question-

Jane

- and since u qualified ur sexual orientation;

Strait- but not narrow- left narrow behind long time ago when I realized love is a better choice than hate.Sent from my iPhone

With all due respect, Carolyn, please just take 's input on the whole lesbian thing and don't say more about it. Everything in your first paragraph is wrong. What you describe is butch-femme relationships--not every lesbian relationship is butch-femme and not every butch-femme relationship is lesbian. Please, just do some reading before you say more about your theories on sexuality on this list.

Terri

Lesbian mom, not a butch or a femme, kid on the spectrum

Where I thought it had relevance was maybe they were thinking that the older brother was assigning the role of female to the younger brother. Since he said to the counselor that his brother calls him a girl. I have noticed in lesbian relationships it appears the assign the role of male to one of them, and the role of female to the other, and yet they are both females.

Just believe that they jumped the gun there as not all people do that. Many if not most are just male or female and do not assign roles.

Anyway I didnâ€™t do anything, just trying to follow their leading and understand what they are saying, which I think is pure rubbage in the case of my two grandsons!

Carolyn

From: L. Sweetman

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:14 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

First, let me say that I'm not certain how there being lesbians at his school has any relevance nor what you mean by that orientation having anything to do with the supposed claims. It, frankly, has absolutely no connection. Assuming it does will likely do more harm than good as will feeling you so emphatically need to say you are NOT of that orientation (as if there is some sort of unwritten code that is tied to sexual orientation). If that becomes part of your argument to the school, you risk alienating people who might otherwise be on your side.

That being said, masturbation is fairly common in children of all sorts regardless of whether or not they have ASD or any other diagnosis. It is a normal part of human development. It is fairly common as a stim for our kids with ASD, though. How parents and family respond affects children in multiple ways, some being tied to self-esteem, body image, and later sexual beliefs others being tied to where or how often they do it (especially in children who, like you say of your grandson, like to push the buttons of the adults around them). Kids are smart. They can very quickly identify what freaks us out and will, in some cases, then do that over and over and over.

Our daughter has had a series of stims over the years. Currently, it is a mind-numbingly annoying snorting/sniffing sound that shakes the rafters. When she was 5 and starting kindergarten, though, it was masturbating. We worked with the school on putting a few things in place to make it a bit less easy for her (for a time, we changed her clothes to limit access. She stopped wearing dresses and skirts. She also had an issue with lifting her dress/skirt up as high as she could, so this tackled two birds with one stone). We and the school also worked on helping her learn what is for public and what is for private. This was especially important because simply telling a child who is stimming to stop doesn't usually work. They are doing it because they need the stimulation and just saying "No" without providing an opportunity for the needed stimulation or an alternative that provides the same sensory input usually won't be effective. When she was at home, if she wanted to masturbate we let her so long as she took the appropriate steps to make it a private activity (i.e. going to her room). It took a couple weeks, but then the public masturbation stopped. It likely continued in her room, but that is exactly as we told her it should. Of course, this requires that the adults in the child's life are able to get over their own issues related to masturbation, if they have any.

We have actually found that the public/private lesson we taught her then has come in handy in other ways. Currently, she is doing a lot of exploration of language so being clear on what she can say at home and what she can say at school has been useful (my husband and I do not believe there is any such thing as a "bad" word, just words that society has decided are more or less acceptable in different situations).

Best,

Hello everybody.

I need your help and input here! My daughter just took her son to school this morning and then she called me quite upset because the counselor there reported to my daughter that my grandson has been playing a lot with his private parts at school. Well he does it here too and we tell him to stop it. He enjoys fondling himself and wears sweat pants all the time because he hates jeans and belts so can easily get his hands in his pants. I think he is doing it as a self stimulation and it has nothing to do with anything sexual really. He is 7 years old and in 2nd grade. Also he likes to do things to get a rise out of adults, such as he will say bad cuss words but when I tell him to stop he stops.

Well evidentially they have been talking to him at school quite a bit and have been coaching him on what they think might be happening with leading questions about his older brother who is 11. And evidentially my grandson said that his older brother calls him a girl. Well they tease and fight all the time and say all sorts of things to each other. Donâ€™t all brothers do that I wonder!

It took me awhile to â€œget itâ€ as my daughter was talking today, and it finally came to me that that stupid school thinks that my older grandson is performing some sort of sexual act upon his younger brother and that is why he is calling him a girl!!

Aaaaa! There are many lesbians there at school and not that this is a bad thing, but we are NOT of that orientation and so it took us awhile to get what they were getting at!

The school counselor today said she is going to have to report it to the department of child services. And my daughter does not know what to do because her child has autism and says and does all sorts of inappropriate things!

Can any of you relate to this and tell us what you did? Please?

Maybe some examples written out from you guys I can print out and she can take them to the school counselor there to see examples of how this was handled in other. She has a masters degree in special ed with a specialty in autism she says.

Thank you,

Carolyn a very concerned grandma right now in Oregon

-- Terri D. Eagen-TorkkoFull-time feminist event planner, freelance editor, 24/7 bonus mom

Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (5)

..

No virus found in this message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2425/4984 - Release Date: 05/07/12

May 8, 2012

Graham does not go into places where he has been asked not to

preach and go ahead and preach.Â You are not being hateful, but you

are displaying bad manners.Â Please let the discussion end.

[moderator]

Â

I wonâ€™t share anymore. You are right

though this is evangelism. Like Graham and his

son have preached for decades. And many other

evangelists. They just say it how it is and is

offensive to some and quite wonderful to others who

are looking for a way out of the burden to sin in

their lives. I am direct and really donâ€™t see

anything wrong with being direct. People just need

to hear it directly I think and no beating about the

bush that Jesus said He was the way, the truth, and

the life and no man cometh to the father accept

through me.

Â

I do hope people think about what is

said to them directly from the Gospel and not judge

the person who is only delivering the Good News to

them! But then Jesus said the world would hate us

because He is in us.

Â

I have never been able to understand

why people hate Jesus and hate Christians. I think

there has to be a whole lot of lying and deceiving

going on, and people calling themselves Christians

who actually are not truly.

Â

I just hope people will read the

Bible and began to seek in their hearts the truth of

God through the Holy Spirit.

Â

Jesus really does love us all!

Â

If anybody is getting hate out of

what I say and especially those who have known me

for a long time on this list something has to be

wrong with them, for they have no evidence to back

up their claims that I am hateful and mean and

judgmental. It is just so wrong.

Â

Carolyn

Â

From:

Riley

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 6:58 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help!

Sex problem!

Â

Carolyn

I am not judging your motives, but the sharing was

out of place here.Â One problem is that we all

have religious languages that we have learnt, and

find them clear and easy.Â But others don't.Â If

you will forgive me for being blunt, you seem to

speak a 'deep' form of evangelical Christianese,

and many of us do not respond well to that, even

if we actually agree with what is being said.Â You

may want to ponder (but not discuss on here) the

thought that how you say things can often lead to

people not hearing what you really want to say.Â

This is not the place to just throw in your own

beliefs about religiously contentious issues, no

matter what your motives for doing so are.Â This

is not a place for arguing religion, so if you

know people will either argue with, or be offended

by, your belief, don't say it.Â I have three

younger sisters and two children.Â I don't buy the

argument that the person who brings up a

contentious issue is not guilty of causing an

argument (just saying what they think), but only

the ones who argue with it.Â Don't post any more

on this subject.

Â

I know better than to

argue about this on here . But just

thought I would take the opportunity to

share a view held by millions of

Christians throughout the world,Â and it

is not a bad view at all, not

judgmental, not condemning, but rather

gives a way of hope for salvation and

for deliverance from sin. I do not like

the way it has been watered down and

changed and distorted, and yes I know

there are dozens of different views and

was stating my own clearlyÂ with no

ambivalence or debate.

Â

Guess we will all find

out one day in the end which view was

correct. I know I preach Jesus Christ

out of real true love for people and a

true desire to help in their lives here

on earth, and offer them life for all

eternity. There is coming a huge revival

in the years to come so the world will

hear much much more of Christians

preaching the truth, to give everybody a

chance to choose.

Â

Think about it anyway,

donâ€™t make up your mind too quickly

without really giving faith in God and

in Christ a chance in your life!

Â

Thanks for letting me

share, God has helped me raise my son

and he is 47 years old now, and I have

joy and peace and strength, like I am

sure I could never have attained any

other way except through Jesus and His

love and compassion for me. And He is

the same towards everybody. He doesnâ€™t

condemn but He saves, is why He died on

the cross, to save us all from sin.

Â

Carolyn

Â

From: Riley

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012

4:02 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re:

Help! Sex

problem!

Â

Carolyn

Please refrain from "Christians

believe" reports.Â There are a number

of denominations who not only accept

homosexuality, but actually will

ordain homosexuals as priests/pastors

- and even as bishops - and believe

the Bible supports their position.Â

Whatever you believe, you will find

millions of Christians who agree with

you, and millions of Christians who

won't.Â A little humility about being

sure they are right wouldn't hurt

either side.Â All I will say on the

issue is that all is not as simple as

many believe.Â Having a degree in

theology and social science, I think I

am qualified to make that

observation.Â What you believe is up

to you, but please think about how you

say it before going public.Â And this

is not the place to warn or preach.

Â

It may come

as a surprise to some of you

that not all of us condone

this. As a Christian I do

not condone it but go by the

Bible. I am sorry it upsets

so many people these days,

but the Bible does still

call it sin and an

abomination to God. I donâ€™t

hate anybody in fact I think

I love them because I am

willing to put my neck on

the chopping block and warn

them. If they do not repent

and turn from this sin they

will go to Hell. Jesus

Christ is the only one who

can save a person from this

kind of bondage.

Â

So there IÂ

have said it, if you want to

hate me go ahead. I have

warned you out of love.

There are millions of

Christians in this world who

believe the same way, so

hate us all if you want to,

while you preach against

hate.

Â

Kind of

confusing.

Â

We love you!

Jesus loves you! He died to

save you!

Â

Just saying.

Â

Carolyn

Â

From: Jane

Sent: Monday,

May 07, 2012 10:46 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re:

Help!

Sex problem!

Â

Yep!

Not to mention

homosexuality has nothing

to do with molestation

question-

Â

Jane

- and since u qualified

ur sexual orientation;

Strait- but not narrow-

left narrow behind long

time ago when I realized

love is a better choice

than hate.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 7, 2012, at 1:32

PM, Terri Eagen-Torkko

wrote:

Â

With all due

respect, Carolyn,

please just take

's input on the

whole lesbian thing

and don't say more

about it. Everything

in your first

paragraph is wrong.

What you describe is

butch-femme

relationships--not

every lesbian

relationship is

butch-femme and not

every butch-femme

relationship is

lesbian. Please,

just do some reading

before you say more

about your theories

on sexuality on this

list.

Â

Terri

Lesbian mom, not

a butch or a femme,

kid on the spectrum

Â

On

Mon, May 7, 2012

at 1:26 PM,

Carolyn

wrote:

Â

Where

I thought it

had relevance

was maybe they

were thinking

that the older

brother was

assigning the

role of female

to the younger

brother. Since

he said to the

counselor that

his brother

calls him a

girl. I have

noticed in

lesbian

relationships

it appears the

assign the

role of male

to one of

them, and the

role of female

to the other,

and yet they

are both

females.

Â

Just

believe that

they jumped

the gun there

as not allÂ

people do

that. Many if

not most are

just male or

female and do

not assign

roles.

Â

Anyway

I didnâ€™t do

anything, just

trying to

follow their

leading and

understand

what they are

saying, which

I think is

pure rubbage

in the case of

my two

grandsons!

Â

CarolynÂ

Â

From:

L. Sweetman

Sent:

Monday, May

07, 2012 10:14

AM

To:

autism-aspergers

Subject:

Re:

Help! Sex

problem!

Â

First, let

me say that

I'm not

certain how

there being

lesbians at

his school has

any relevance

nor what you

mean by that

orientation

having

anything to do

with the

supposed

claims. It,

frankly, has

absolutely no

connection.Â

Assuming it

does will

likely do more

harm than good

as will

feeling you so

emphatically

need to say

you are NOT of

that

orientation

(as if there

is some sort

of unwritten

code that is

tied to sexual

orientation).

If that

becomes part

of your

argument to

the school,

you risk

alienating

people who

might

otherwise be

on your side.

Â

That

being said,

masturbation

is fairly

common in

children of

all sorts

regardless of

whether or not

they have ASD

or any other

diagnosis. It

is a normal

part of human

development.

It is fairly

common as a

stim for our

kids with ASD,

though. How

parents and

family respond

affects

children in

multiple ways,

some being

tied to

self-esteem,

body image,

and later

sexual beliefs

others being

tied to where

or how often

they do it

(especially in

children who,

like you say

of your

grandson, like

to push the

buttons of the

adults around

them). Kids

are smart.

They can very

quickly

identify what

freaks us out

and will, in

some cases,

then do that

over and over

and over.

Â

Our

daughter has

had a series

of stims over

the years.

Currently, it

is a

mind-numbingly

annoying

snorting/sniffing

sound that

shakes the

rafters. When

she was 5 and

starting

kindergarten,

though, it was

masturbating.

We worked with

the school on

putting a few

things in

place to make

it a bit less

easy for her

(for a time,

we changed her

clothes to

limit access.

She stopped

wearing

dresses and

skirts. She

also had an

issue with

lifting her

dress/skirt up

as high as she

could, so this

tackled two

birds with one

stone). We and

the school

also worked on

helping her

learn what is

for public and

what is for

private. This

was especially

important

because simply

telling a

child who is

stimming to

stop doesn't

usually work.

They are doing

it because

they need the

stimulation

and just

saying "No"

without

providing an

opportunity

for the needed

stimulation or

an alternative

that provides

the same

sensory input

usually won't

be effective.

When she was

at home, if

she wanted to

masturbate we

let her so

long as she

took the

appropriate

steps to make

it a private

activity (i.e.

going to her

room). It took

a couple

weeks, but

then the

public

masturbation

stopped. It

likely

continued in

her room, but

that is

exactly as we

told her it

should. Of

course, this

requires that

the adults in

the child's

life are able

to get over

their own

issues related

to

masturbation,

if they have

any.

Â

We have

actually found

that the

public/private

lesson we

taught her

then has come

in handy in

other ways.

Currently, she

is doing a lot

of exploration

of language so

being clear on

what she can

say at home

and what she

can say at

school has

been useful

(my husband

and I do not

believe there

is any such

thing as a

"bad" word,

just words

that society

has decided

are more or

less

acceptable in

different

situations).

Â

Best,

Â

On

Mon, May 7,

2012 at 12:21

PM, Carolyn

wrote:

Â

Hello

everybody.

Â

I

need your help

and input

here! My

daughter just

took her son

to school this

morning and

then she

called me

quite upset

because the

counselor

there reported

to my daughter

that my

grandson has

been playing a

lot with his

private parts

at school.

Well he does

it here too

and we tell

him to stop

it. He enjoys

fondling

himself and

wears sweat

pants all the

time because

he hates jeans

and belts so

can easily get

his hands in

his pants. I

think he is

doing it as a

self

stimulation

and it has

nothing to do

with anything

sexual really.

He is 7 years

old and in 2nd

grade. Also he

likes to do

things to get

a rise out of

adults, such

as he will say

bad cuss words

but when I

tell him to

stop he stops.

Â

Well

evidentially

they have been

talking to him

at school

quite a bit

and have been

coaching him

on what they

think might be

happening with

leading

questions

about his

older brother

who is 11. And

evidentially

my grandson

said that his

older brother

calls him a

girl. Well

they tease and

fight all the

time and say

all sorts of

things to each

other. Donâ€™t

all brothers

do that I

wonder!

Â

It

took me awhile

to â€œget itâ€ as

my daughter

was talking

today, and it

finally came

to me that

that stupid

school thinks

that my older

grandson is

performing

some sort of

sexual act

upon his

younger

brother and

that is why he

is calling him

a girl!!

Â

Aaaaa!

There are many

lesbians there

at school and

not that this

is a bad

thing, but we

are NOT of

that

orientation

and so it took

us awhile to

get what they

were getting

at!

Â

The

school

counselor

today said she

is going to

have to report

it to the

department of

child

services. And

my daughter

does not know

what to do

because her

child has

autism and

says and does

all sorts of

inappropriate

things!

Â

Can

any of you

relate to this

and tell us

what you did?

Please?

Â

Maybe

some examples

written out

from you guys

I can print

out and she

can take them

to the school

counselor

there to see

examples of

how this was

handled in

other. She has

a masters

degree in

special ed

with a

specialty in

autism she

says.

Â

Thank

you,

Carolyn

a very

concerned

grandma right

now in Oregon

Â

--

Terri D.

Eagen-Torkko

Full-time feminist

event planner,

freelance editor,

24/7 bonus mom

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05/07/12

May 8, 2012

Thanks to you, Carol.....I have finally figured out how to block messages from one particular person. Even when several ask you to stop you keep going....even in this email. Graham has NOTHING to do with Autism. I should just delete your posts/ ignore them, but after reading this CRAP, it unnerves me (how ignorant and insensitive people can be) and at least now you've unnerved me enough that I finally (after months of wanting to) looked up help menus and figured out how to block you so I'm not unnerved by you again. Thank GOD for help menus!! To: autism-aspergers Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 10:16 PM Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

I wonâ€™t share anymore. You are right though this is evangelism. Like Graham and his son have preached for decades. And many other evangelists. They just say it how it is and is offensive to some and quite wonderful to others who are looking for a way out of the burden to sin in their lives. I am direct and really donâ€™t see anything wrong with being direct. People just need to hear it directly I think and no beating about the bush that Jesus said He was the way, the truth, and the life and no man cometh to the father accept through me.

I do hope people think about what is said to them directly from the Gospel and not judge the person who is only delivering the Good News to them! But then Jesus said the world would hate us because He is in us.

I have never been able to understand why people hate Jesus and hate Christians. I think there has to be a whole lot of lying and deceiving going on, and people calling themselves Christians who actually are not truly.

I just hope people will read the Bible and began to seek in their hearts the truth of God through the Holy Spirit.

Jesus really does love us all!

If anybody is getting hate out of what I say and especially those who have known me for a long time on this list something has to be wrong with them, for they have no evidence to back up their claims that I am hateful and mean and judgmental. It is just so wrong.

Carolyn

From: Riley

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 6:58 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

CarolynI am not judging your motives, but the sharing was out of place here. One problem is that we all have religious languages that we have learnt, and find them clear and easy. But others don't. If you will forgive me for being blunt, you seem to speak a 'deep' form of evangelical Christianese, and many of us do not respond well to that, even if we actually agree with what is being said. You may want to ponder (but not discuss on here) the thought that how you say things can often lead to people not hearing what you really want to say. This is not the place to just throw in your own beliefs about religiously contentious issues, no matter what your motives for doing so are. This is not a place for arguing religion, so if you know people will either argue with, or be offended by, your belief, don't say it. I have three younger sisters and two children. I don't buy the argument that the person who brings up a contentious issue is not guilty of causing an argument (just saying what they think), but only the ones who argue with it. Don't post any more on this subject.

I know better than to argue about this on here . But just thought I would take the opportunity to share a view held by millions of Christians throughout the world, and it is not a bad view at all, not judgmental, not condemning, but rather gives a way of hope for salvation and for deliverance from sin. I do not like the way it has been watered down and changed and distorted, and yes I know there are dozens of different views and was stating my own clearly with no ambivalence or debate.

Guess we will all find out one day in the end which view was correct. I know I preach Jesus Christ out of real true love for people and a true desire to help in their lives here on earth, and offer them life for all eternity. There is coming a huge revival in the years to come so the world will hear much much more of Christians preaching the truth, to give everybody a chance to choose.

Think about it anyway, donâ€™t make up your mind too quickly without really giving faith in God and in Christ a chance in your life!

Thanks for letting me share, God has helped me raise my son and he is 47 years old now, and I have joy and peace and strength, like I am sure I could never have attained any other way except through Jesus and His love and compassion for me. And He is the same towards everybody. He doesnâ€™t condemn but He saves, is why He died on the cross, to save us all from sin.

Carolyn

From: Riley

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 4:02 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

CarolynPlease refrain from "Christians believe" reports. There are a number of denominations who not only accept homosexuality, but actually will ordain homosexuals as priests/pastors - and even as bishops - and believe the Bible supports their position. Whatever you believe, you will find millions of Christians who agree with you, and millions of Christians who won't. A little humility about being sure they are right wouldn't hurt either side. All I will say on the issue is that all is not as simple as many believe. Having a degree in theology and social science, I think I am qualified to make that observation. What you believe is up to you, but please think about how you say it before going public. And this is not the place to warn or preach.

It may come as a surprise to some of you that not all of us condone this. As a Christian I do not condone it but go by the Bible. I am sorry it upsets so many people these days, but the Bible does still call it sin and an abomination to God. I donâ€™t hate anybody in fact I think I love them because I am willing to put my neck on the chopping block and warn them. If they do not repent and turn from this sin they will go to Hell. Jesus Christ is the only one who can save a person from this kind of bondage.

So there I have said it, if you want to hate me go ahead. I have warned you out of love. There are millions of Christians in this world who believe the same way, so hate us all if you want to, while you preach against hate.

Kind of confusing.

We love you! Jesus loves you! He died to save you!

Just saying.

Carolyn

From: Jane

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:46 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

Yep!

Not to mention homosexuality has nothing to do with molestation question-

Jane

- and since u qualified ur sexual orientation;

Strait- but not narrow- left narrow behind long time ago when I realized love is a better choice than hate.Sent from my iPhone

With all due respect, Carolyn, please just take 's input on the whole lesbian thing and don't say more about it. Everything in your first paragraph is wrong. What you describe is butch-femme relationships--not every lesbian relationship is butch-femme and not every butch-femme relationship is lesbian. Please, just do some reading before you say more about your theories on sexuality on this list.

Terri

Lesbian mom, not a butch or a femme, kid on the spectrum

Where I thought it had relevance was maybe they were thinking that the older brother was assigning the role of female to the younger brother. Since he said to the counselor that his brother calls him a girl. I have noticed in lesbian relationships it appears the assign the role of male to one of them, and the role of female to the other, and yet they are both females.

Just believe that they jumped the gun there as not all people do that. Many if not most are just male or female and do not assign roles.

Anyway I didnâ€™t do anything, just trying to follow their leading and understand what they are saying, which I think is pure rubbage in the case of my two grandsons!

Carolyn

From: L. Sweetman

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:14 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

First, let me say that I'm not certain how there being lesbians at his school has any relevance nor what you mean by that orientation having anything to do with the supposed claims. It, frankly, has absolutely no connection. Assuming it does will likely do more harm than good as will feeling you so emphatically need to say you are NOT of that orientation (as if there is some sort of unwritten code that is tied to sexual orientation). If that becomes part of your argument to the school, you risk alienating people who might otherwise be on your side.

That being said, masturbation is fairly common in children of all sorts regardless of whether or not they have ASD or any other diagnosis. It is a normal part of human development. It is fairly common as a stim for our kids with ASD, though. How parents and family respond affects children in multiple ways, some being tied to self-esteem, body image, and later sexual beliefs others being tied to where or how often they do it (especially in children who, like you say of your grandson, like to push the buttons of the adults around them). Kids are smart. They can very quickly identify what freaks us out and will, in some cases, then do that over and over and over.

Our daughter has had a series of stims over the years. Currently, it is a mind-numbingly annoying snorting/sniffing sound that shakes the rafters. When she was 5 and starting kindergarten, though, it was masturbating. We worked with the school on putting a few things in place to make it a bit less easy for her (for a time, we changed her clothes to limit access. She stopped wearing dresses and skirts. She also had an issue with lifting her dress/skirt up as high as she could, so this tackled two birds with one stone). We and the school also worked on helping her learn what is for public and what is for private. This was especially important because simply telling a child who is stimming to stop doesn't usually work. They are doing it because they need the stimulation and just saying "No" without providing an opportunity for the needed stimulation or an alternative that provides the same sensory input usually won't be effective. When she was at home, if she wanted to masturbate we let her so long as she took the appropriate steps to make it a private activity (i.e. going to her room). It took a couple weeks, but then the public masturbation stopped. It likely continued in her room, but that is exactly as we told her it should. Of course, this requires that the adults in the child's life are able to get over their own issues related to masturbation, if they have any.

We have actually found that the public/private lesson we taught her then has come in handy in other ways. Currently, she is doing a lot of exploration of language so being clear on what she can say at home and what she can say at school has been useful (my husband and I do not believe there is any such thing as a "bad" word, just words that society has decided are more or less acceptable in different situations).

Best,

Hello everybody.

I need your help and input here! My daughter just took her son to school this morning and then she called me quite upset because the counselor there reported to my daughter that my grandson has been playing a lot with his private parts at school. Well he does it here too and we tell him to stop it. He enjoys fondling himself and wears sweat pants all the time because he hates jeans and belts so can easily get his hands in his pants. I think he is doing it as a self stimulation and it has nothing to do with anything sexual really. He is 7 years old and in 2nd grade. Also he likes to do things to get a rise out of adults, such as he will say bad cuss words but when I tell him to stop he stops.

Well evidentially they have been talking to him at school quite a bit and have been coaching him on what they think might be happening with leading questions about his older brother who is 11. And evidentially my grandson said that his older brother calls him a girl. Well they tease and fight all the time and say all sorts of things to each other. Donâ€™t all brothers do that I wonder!

It took me awhile to â€œget itâ€ as my daughter was talking today, and it finally came to me that that stupid school thinks that my older grandson is performing some sort of sexual act upon his younger brother and that is why he is calling him a girl!!

Aaaaa! There are many lesbians there at school and not that this is a bad thing, but we are NOT of that orientation and so it took us awhile to get what they were getting at!

The school counselor today said she is going to have to report it to the department of child services. And my daughter does not know what to do because her child has autism and says and does all sorts of inappropriate things!

Can any of you relate to this and tell us what you did? Please?

Maybe some examples written out from you guys I can print out and she can take them to the school counselor there to see examples of how this was handled in other. She has a masters degree in special ed with a specialty in autism she says.

Thank you,

Carolyn a very concerned grandma right now in Oregon

-- Terri D. Eagen-TorkkoFull-time feminist event planner, freelance editor, 24/7 bonus mom

Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (5)

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May 8, 2012

Wow ok.....

May 8, 2012

Exactly!! Thank you!!

------------------------------

>I don't understand why people are fighting on here.Â Don't we have enough

problems just getting through the day with our children?

>

>________________________________

>

>To: " autism-aspergers " <autism-aspergers >

>Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 4:58 PM

>Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

>

>Â

>

>No, Carolyn.Â I asked you to stop.Â Twice!Â

>

>________________________________

>

>To: autism-aspergers

>Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 4:57 PM

>Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

>

>Â

>Iâ€™m sorry as I do not now what you asked me to stop. ??

>Â

>Anyway my daughter has talked to the counselor at the school

>since this morning, and she interviewed my grandson and is content that my

older

>grandson did not molest him as she had first suspected. So thank God he gets to

>be left out of it.

>Â

>So she said that Childrenâ€™s Services have been called off for

>now. It really upset my daughter but I talked her down best I could, and prayed

>for her and the situation and the Lord stepped in and helped us

>all.

>Â

>Could have gotten out of hand. Things do get out of hand and

>he could have been suspended.

>Â

>Carolyn

>Â

>

>From: Jane

>Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 1:43 PM

>To: autism-aspergers

>Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

>

>Â

>Ok it's now obvious to me that there's more to the story-

>Because someone has nicely been asked to stop and can't respect

>boundaries.

>

>HOW anyone thinks a possible molesting has anything to do with a

>homosexuality is beyond me-

>

>My guess is there's more to the reason the school made the allegations- I

>have never heard of anyone calling protective services because a kid

masturbates

>too much-

>

>But I get stupid in the schools so it's possible-

>

>But research molesting- its an act of violance- not anything else at

>all.

>

>Sent from my iPhone

>

>Â

>>For the love of Pete. Its not up to you to worn or save anybody. Ever heard

of love thy neighbor? It didnt say love them only if they arent sinners. This

is a board for AUTISM, not a Im going to shove my religion down your collective

throat! How many times do people have to politely tell you off?

>>

>>--- Original Message ---

>>

>>From: Carolyn <mailto:charper777%40comcast.net>

>>Sent:

> May 7, 2012 5/7/12

>>To: mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com

>>Subject:

> Re: Help! Sex problem!

>>

>>Â

>>

>>It may come as

> a surprise to some of you that not all of us condone this. As a Christian I

do

> not condone it but go by the Bible. I am sorry it upsets so many people these

> days, but the Bible does still call it sin and an abomination to God. I

donâ€™t

> hate anybody in fact I think I love them because I am willing to put my neck

> on the chopping block and warn them. If they do not repent and turn from this

> sin they will go to Hell. Jesus Christ is the only one who can save a person

> from this kind of bondage.

>>Â

>>So there IÂ have said it, if you

> want to hate me go ahead. I have warned you out of love. There are millions

of

> Christians in this world who believe the same way, so hate us all if you want

> to, while you preach against hate.

>>Â

>>Kind of

> confusing.

>>Â

>>We love you! Jesus loves you! He died to save

> you!

>>Â

>>Just

> saying.

>>Â

>>Carolyn

>>Â

>>

>>Â

>>

>>From: Jane

>>Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:46 AM

>>To: mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com

>>Subject: Re: Help! Sex

> problem!

>>

>>Â

>>

>>Â

>>

>>Yep!

>>Not to mention

> homosexuality has nothing to do with molestation

> question-

>>Â

>>Jane

>>- and since u qualified ur sexual

> orientation;

>>Strait- but not narrow- left narrow behind long time ago when

> I realized love is a better choice than hate.

>>

>>Sent from my

> iPhone

>>

>>On May 7, 2012, at 1:32 PM, Terri Eagen-Torkko <mailto:torkko%40gmail.com>

wrote:

>>

>>Â

>>

>>With all due respect, Carolyn, please just take

> 's input on the whole lesbian thing and don't say more about it.

> Everything in your first paragraph is wrong. What you describe is butch-femme

> relationships--not every lesbian relationship is butch-femme and not every

> butch-femme relationship is lesbian. Please, just do some reading before you

> say more about your theories on sexuality on this

> list.

>>

>>Â

>>

>>Terri

>>

>>Lesbian mom, not a butch or a femme,

> kid on the spectrum

>>

>>Â

>>On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 1:26 PM,

> Carolyn <mailto:charper777%40comcast.net> wrote:

>>

>>Â

>>

>>Where I thought it had relevance was

> maybe they were thinking that the older brother was assigning the role of

> female to the younger brother. Since he said to the counselor that his

brother

> calls him a girl. I have noticed in lesbian relationships it appears the

> assign the role of male to one of them, and the role of female to the other,

> and yet they are both females.

>>

>>Â

>>

>>Just believe that they

> jumped the gun there as not allÂ people do that. Many if not most are

> just male or female and do not assign roles.

>>

>>Â

>>

>>Anyway I

> didnâ€™t do anything, just trying to follow their leading and understand what

> they are saying, which I think is pure rubbage in the case of my two

> grandsons!

>>

>>Â

>>

>>Carolyn

>>

>>Â

>>

>>Â

>>

>>Â

>>

>>From: L. Sweetman

>>

>>Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:14 AM

>>

>>To: mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com

>>

>>Subject: Re: Help! Sex

> problem!

>>

>>Â

>>

>>Â

>>

>>First, let me say that I'm

> not certain how there being lesbians at his school has any relevance nor what

> you mean by that orientation having anything to do with the supposed claims.

> It, frankly, has absolutely no connection.Â Assuming it does will likely

> do more harm than good as will feeling you so emphatically need to say you

are

> NOT of that orientation (as if there is some sort of unwritten code that is

> tied to sexual orientation). If that becomes part of your argument to the

> school, you risk alienating people who might otherwise be on your side.

>>

>>Â

>>

>>That being said, masturbation is fairly common in

> children of all sorts regardless of whether or not they have ASD or any other

> diagnosis. It is a normal part of human development. It is fairly common as a

> stim for our kids with ASD, though. How parents and family respond affects

> children in multiple ways, some being tied to self-esteem, body image, and

> later sexual beliefs others being tied to where or how often they do it

> (especially in children who, like you say of your grandson, like to push the

> buttons of the adults around them). Kids are smart. They can very quickly

> identify what freaks us out and will, in some cases, then do that over and

> over and over.

>>

>>Â

>>

>>Our daughter has had a series of stims

> over the years. Currently, it is a mind-numbingly annoying snorting/sniffing

> sound that shakes the rafters. When she was 5 and starting kindergarten,

> though, it was masturbating. We worked with the school on putting a few

things

> in place to make it a bit less easy for her (for a time, we changed her

> clothes to limit access. She stopped wearing dresses and skirts. She also had

> an issue with lifting her dress/skirt up as high as she could, so this

tackled

> two birds with one stone). We and the school also worked on helping her learn

> what is for public and what is for private. This was especially important

> because simply telling a child who is stimming to stop doesn't usually work.

> They are doing it because they need the stimulation and just saying " No "

> without providing an opportunity for the needed stimulation or an alternative

> that provides the same sensory input usually won't be effective. When she was

> at home, if she

>

May 8, 2012

I kept out of this for as long as I could, because and were doing a good job of handling the "problem". But it just kept going and going, and I was very interested in the original topic. It's so sad that a discussion that is very relevant to many of our children has turned into something religious. I have a son who just turned 12 and is rapidly approaching puberty. I'm sure I'll be asking for advice about how to handle certain issues that might arise at some point, and I want to get good sound advice not have it veer off course to religion. This group has provided a lot of useful tips and support, so I generally overlook the messages that I disagree with, or that I find mildly offensive. , I'm glad you kept your sense of humor here, and found a silver lining (figuring out how to block one person). You might need to share those instructions with others. LoraTo: autism-aspergers From: srt12780@...Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 19:30:39 -0700Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

Thanks to you, Carol.....I have finally figured out how to block messages from one particular person. Even when several ask you to stop you keep going....even in this email. Graham has NOTHING to do with Autism. I should just delete your posts/ ignore them, but after reading this CRAP, it unnerves me (how ignorant and insensitive people can be) and at least now you've unnerved me enough that I finally (after months of wanting to) looked up help menus and figured out how to block you so I'm not unnerved by you again. Thank GOD for help menus!! To: autism-aspergers Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 10:16 PM Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

I won’t share anymore. You are right though this is evangelism. Like Graham and his son have preached for decades. And many other evangelists. They just say it how it is and is offensive to some and quite wonderful to others who are looking for a way out of the burden to sin in their lives. I am direct and really don’t see anything wrong with being direct. People just need to hear it directly I think and no beating about the bush that Jesus said He was the way, the truth, and the life and no man cometh to the father accept through me.

I do hope people think about what is said to them directly from the Gospel and not judge the person who is only delivering the Good News to them! But then Jesus said the world would hate us because He is in us.

I have never been able to understand why people hate Jesus and hate Christians. I think there has to be a whole lot of lying and deceiving going on, and people calling themselves Christians who actually are not truly.

I just hope people will read the Bible and began to seek in their hearts the truth of God through the Holy Spirit.

Jesus really does love us all!

If anybody is getting hate out of what I say and especially those who have known me for a long time on this list something has to be wrong with them, for they have no evidence to back up their claims that I am hateful and mean and judgmental. It is just so wrong.

Carolyn

From: Riley

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 6:58 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

CarolynI am not judging your motives, but the sharing was out of place here. One problem is that we all have religious languages that we have learnt, and find them clear and easy. But others don't. If you will forgive me for being blunt, you seem to speak a 'deep' form of evangelical Christianese, and many of us do not respond well to that, even if we actually agree with what is being said. You may want to ponder (but not discuss on here) the thought that how you say things can often lead to people not hearing what you really want to say. This is not the place to just throw in your own beliefs about religiously contentious issues, no matter what your motives for doing so are. This is not a place for arguing religion, so if you know people will either argue with, or be offended by, your belief, don't say it. I have three younger sisters and two children. I don't buy the argument that the person who brings up a contentious issue is not guilty of causing an argument (just saying what they think), but only the ones who argue with it. Don't post any more on this subject.

I know better than to argue about this on here . But just thought I would take the opportunity to share a view held by millions of Christians throughout the world, and it is not a bad view at all, not judgmental, not condemning, but rather gives a way of hope for salvation and for deliverance from sin. I do not like the way it has been watered down and changed and distorted, and yes I know there are dozens of different views and was stating my own clearly with no ambivalence or debate.

Guess we will all find out one day in the end which view was correct. I know I preach Jesus Christ out of real true love for people and a true desire to help in their lives here on earth, and offer them life for all eternity. There is coming a huge revival in the years to come so the world will hear much much more of Christians preaching the truth, to give everybody a chance to choose.

Think about it anyway, don’t make up your mind too quickly without really giving faith in God and in Christ a chance in your life!

Thanks for letting me share, God has helped me raise my son and he is 47 years old now, and I have joy and peace and strength, like I am sure I could never have attained any other way except through Jesus and His love and compassion for me. And He is the same towards everybody. He doesn’t condemn but He saves, is why He died on the cross, to save us all from sin.

Carolyn

From: Riley

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 4:02 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

CarolynPlease refrain from "Christians believe" reports. There are a number of denominations who not only accept homosexuality, but actually will ordain homosexuals as priests/pastors - and even as bishops - and believe the Bible supports their position. Whatever you believe, you will find millions of Christians who agree with you, and millions of Christians who won't. A little humility about being sure they are right wouldn't hurt either side. All I will say on the issue is that all is not as simple as many believe. Having a degree in theology and social science, I think I am qualified to make that observation. What you believe is up to you, but please think about how you say it before going public. And this is not the place to warn or preach.

It may come as a surprise to some of you that not all of us condone this. As a Christian I do not condone it but go by the Bible. I am sorry it upsets so many people these days, but the Bible does still call it sin and an abomination to God. I don’t hate anybody in fact I think I love them because I am willing to put my neck on the chopping block and warn them. If they do not repent and turn from this sin they will go to Hell. Jesus Christ is the only one who can save a person from this kind of bondage.

So there I have said it, if you want to hate me go ahead. I have warned you out of love. There are millions of Christians in this world who believe the same way, so hate us all if you want to, while you preach against hate.

Kind of confusing.

We love you! Jesus loves you! He died to save you!

Just saying.

Carolyn

From: Jane

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:46 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

Yep!

Not to mention homosexuality has nothing to do with molestation question-

Jane

- and since u qualified ur sexual orientation;

Strait- but not narrow- left narrow behind long time ago when I realized love is a better choice than hate.Sent from my iPhone

With all due respect, Carolyn, please just take 's input on the whole lesbian thing and don't say more about it. Everything in your first paragraph is wrong. What you describe is butch-femme relationships--not every lesbian relationship is butch-femme and not every butch-femme relationship is lesbian. Please, just do some reading before you say more about your theories on sexuality on this list.

Terri

Lesbian mom, not a butch or a femme, kid on the spectrum

Where I thought it had relevance was maybe they were thinking that the older brother was assigning the role of female to the younger brother. Since he said to the counselor that his brother calls him a girl. I have noticed in lesbian relationships it appears the assign the role of male to one of them, and the role of female to the other, and yet they are both females.

Just believe that they jumped the gun there as not all people do that. Many if not most are just male or female and do not assign roles.

Anyway I didn’t do anything, just trying to follow their leading and understand what they are saying, which I think is pure rubbage in the case of my two grandsons!

Carolyn

From: L. Sweetman

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:14 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

First, let me say that I'm not certain how there being lesbians at his school has any relevance nor what you mean by that orientation having anything to do with the supposed claims. It, frankly, has absolutely no connection. Assuming it does will likely do more harm than good as will feeling you so emphatically need to say you are NOT of that orientation (as if there is some sort of unwritten code that is tied to sexual orientation). If that becomes part of your argument to the school, you risk alienating people who might otherwise be on your side.

That being said, masturbation is fairly common in children of all sorts regardless of whether or not they have ASD or any other diagnosis. It is a normal part of human development. It is fairly common as a stim for our kids with ASD, though. How parents and family respond affects children in multiple ways, some being tied to self-esteem, body image, and later sexual beliefs others being tied to where or how often they do it (especially in children who, like you say of your grandson, like to push the buttons of the adults around them). Kids are smart. They can very quickly identify what freaks us out and will, in some cases, then do that over and over and over.

Our daughter has had a series of stims over the years. Currently, it is a mind-numbingly annoying snorting/sniffing sound that shakes the rafters. When she was 5 and starting kindergarten, though, it was masturbating. We worked with the school on putting a few things in place to make it a bit less easy for her (for a time, we changed her clothes to limit access. She stopped wearing dresses and skirts. She also had an issue with lifting her dress/skirt up as high as she could, so this tackled two birds with one stone). We and the school also worked on helping her learn what is for public and what is for private. This was especially important because simply telling a child who is stimming to stop doesn't usually work. They are doing it because they need the stimulation and just saying "No" without providing an opportunity for the needed stimulation or an alternative that provides the same sensory input usually won't be effective. When she was at home, if she wanted to masturbate we let her so long as she took the appropriate steps to make it a private activity (i.e. going to her room). It took a couple weeks, but then the public masturbation stopped. It likely continued in her room, but that is exactly as we told her it should. Of course, this requires that the adults in the child's life are able to get over their own issues related to masturbation, if they have any.

We have actually found that the public/private lesson we taught her then has come in handy in other ways. Currently, she is doing a lot of exploration of language so being clear on what she can say at home and what she can say at school has been useful (my husband and I do not believe there is any such thing as a "bad" word, just words that society has decided are more or less acceptable in different situations).

Best,

Hello everybody.

I need your help and input here! My daughter just took her son to school this morning and then she called me quite upset because the counselor there reported to my daughter that my grandson has been playing a lot with his private parts at school. Well he does it here too and we tell him to stop it. He enjoys fondling himself and wears sweat pants all the time because he hates jeans and belts so can easily get his hands in his pants. I think he is doing it as a self stimulation and it has nothing to do with anything sexual really. He is 7 years old and in 2nd grade. Also he likes to do things to get a rise out of adults, such as he will say bad cuss words but when I tell him to stop he stops.

Well evidentially they have been talking to him at school quite a bit and have been coaching him on what they think might be happening with leading questions about his older brother who is 11. And evidentially my grandson said that his older brother calls him a girl. Well they tease and fight all the time and say all sorts of things to each other. Don’t all brothers do that I wonder!

It took me awhile to “get it” as my daughter was talking today, and it finally came to me that that stupid school thinks that my older grandson is performing some sort of sexual act upon his younger brother and that is why he is calling him a girl!!

Aaaaa! There are many lesbians there at school and not that this is a bad thing, but we are NOT of that orientation and so it took us awhile to get what they were getting at!

The school counselor today said she is going to have to report it to the department of child services. And my daughter does not know what to do because her child has autism and says and does all sorts of inappropriate things!

Can any of you relate to this and tell us what you did? Please?

Maybe some examples written out from you guys I can print out and she can take them to the school counselor there to see examples of how this was handled in other. She has a masters degree in special ed with a specialty in autism she says.

Thank you,

Carolyn a very concerned grandma right now in Oregon

-- Terri D. Eagen-TorkkoFull-time feminist event planner, freelance editor, 24/7 bonus mom

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May 8, 2012

Please feel free to ask anything, now or in the future.Â I never

realised how hard it could be until I was talking to a woman who

grew up with only sisters, and both her father and mother also had

only sisters, and then she found herself a single mother of 3 boys

(her husband died - so not his fault).Â They were then twins of 13

and one boy of almost 12.Â She found having three boys either going

through or fast approaching puberty was a real culture shock for

her.Â She had no idea what to expect before it happened, or if what

her boys were doing was normal or not.Â She knew their openness

about sex and physical changes was not the way she had grown up.Â

She wasn't sure if her twins comparing their experience of wet

dreams at the breakfast table was normal or not, and whether she

should have let them know she could hear them from the kitchen or

not.Â She also wasn't used to sexual words being used in reference

to each other and didn't know if it was OK or not.Â She knew she was

very uncomfortable about finding the twins masturbating in the

loungeroom when she checked if it was still tidy just before her

mother was expected to arrive (but she was glad she found them and

not grandma).Â She asked a few men she knew well and discovered it

wasn't an area on which there was general agreement.Â She did decide

to ask them to keep such discussions for their bedrooms, and there

was agreement that masturbation was not to be indulged in outside

the bedroom or talked about at all when there were

visitors.Â She isn't religious, so has no hangups about sex from

that point of view.Â But she also isn't comfortable with 'anything

goes'.Â She has since successfully negotiated the boys getting

girlfriends, and sorting through whether they can or can't have the

girlfriends stay overnight.Â On that issue, she did insist that if

one of the twins had a girl over, the other had to move out.Â They

didn't see why at first, but she stood firm.Â She heard that they

did try switching places a couple of times to see if they could fool

their girlfriends, but one of the girlfriends decided to teach them

a lesson by pretending not to notice.Â Things did go a long way

before the boy confessed.Â The girl then read them both the riot

act, and added to it by announcing to their mother at the breakfast

table the next day "do you know what your scumbags of sons tried

last night?"Â Both mother and girlfriend had fun telling that story,

especially when the twins were around.Â

With my son, we really only had to teach him (at about 7) that

masturbation was a private activity.Â And that the sort-of-sexual

mucking around that went on when his friends came over was not to be

done in front of his little sister.Â They may have found pretend sex

hilarious, but I didn't want to have to explain what they were doing

- or not doing - to his sister.Â Talking about sex was also very

amusing to them around the age of 12-15.Â Although he is 17, he does

not yet have a girlfriend, so all those issues are still in the

future.

Â

I kept out of this for as long as I could, because

and were doing a good job of handling the

"problem".Â But it just kept going and going, and I was

very interested in the original topic.Â It's so sad that a

discussion that is very relevant to many of our

childrenÂ has turned into something religious.Â I have a

son whoÂ just turned 12 and is rapidly approaching

puberty.Â I'm sure I'll be asking for advice about how to

handle certain issues that might arise at some point, and

I want to get good sound advice notÂ have it veer off

course to religion.Â This group has provided a lot of

usefulÂ tips and support, so I generally overlook

theÂ messages that I disagree with, or that I find mildly

offensive.Â Â Â Â

Â

, I'm glad you kept your sense of humor here, and

found a silver lining (figuring out how to block one

person).Â You might need toÂ share those instructions with

others. Â Â

Â

Lora

May 8, 2012

I am fairly certain that what they are pointing out, is that a lesbian

relationship is between two women, not two men, regardless of whether or not

those lesbians assign a gender role (not all do, btw). Please note that when two

males are gay, they are not called lesbians.

Your questions would have more to do with why your grandson finds it socially

acceptable to do what he is doing, which is playing with himself.

If we were to get into the pyscho analysis of whether or not it has anything to

do with your older grandson calling him a girl in a sexual way, it still has

absolutely nothing to do with lesbians and their belief, since you are still

talking about two guys.

Aside from all of this, quite often, the act of fondling themselves with boys at

any prepubescent age, comes more from habit, than anything.

It's no different than the child who picks his nose, or the ones who bite their

nails, or pick at scabs. In most instances, it's done without much thought as to

the actual process.

With kids who have Aspergers, or Autism, it's often a self soothing 'tic', if

you will. Some kids fidget. Some kids pull their hair. Others pick their skin.

It's a tic that he has to learn how to control, and when to do it or not do it.

Does your grandson do any sort of therapy programs for ASD? Does he have an IEP

in place at school to receive help there?

These are the types of behaviors that he just does not understand are wrong.

He's not doing them because of anything someone else in his life is doing. At

some point, his penis became his fidget toy, so to speak.

Some kids have wiggle seats at school. Others have things like koosh balls they

play with. Some have chewies they chew on during class. Your grandson likely

needs some positive reinforcement when he isn't playing with himself, and likely

some other object that he can be allowed to play with to keep him focused.

>

> Hello everybody.

>

> I need your help and input here! My daughter just took her son to school

this morning and then she called me quite upset because the counselor there

reported to my daughter that my grandson has been playing a lot with his private

parts at school. Well he does it here too and we tell him to stop it. He enjoys

fondling himself and wears sweat pants all the time because he hates jeans and

belts so can easily get his hands in his pants. I think he is doing it as a self

stimulation and it has nothing to do with anything sexual really. He is 7 years

old and in 2nd grade. Also he likes to do things to get a rise out of adults,

such as he will say bad cuss words but when I tell him to stop he stops.

>

> Well evidentially they have been talking to him at school quite a bit and

have been coaching him on what they think might be happening with leading

questions about his older brother who is 11. And evidentially my grandson said

that his older brother calls him a girl. Well they tease and fight all the time

and say all sorts of things to each other. Don't all brothers do that I wonder!

>

> It took me awhile to " get it " as my daughter was talking today, and it

finally came to me that that stupid school thinks that my older grandson is

performing some sort of sexual act upon his younger brother and that is why he

is calling him a girl!!

>

> Aaaaa! There are many lesbians there at school and not that this is a bad

thing, but we are NOT of that orientation and so it took us awhile to get what

they were getting at!

>

> The school counselor today said she is going to have to report it to the

department of child services. And my daughter does not know what to do because

her child has autism and says and does all sorts of inappropriate things!

>

> Can any of you relate to this and tell us what you did? Please?

>

> Maybe some examples written out from you guys I can print out and she can

take them to the school counselor there to see examples of how this was handled

in other. She has a masters degree in special ed with a specialty in autism she

says.

>

> Thank you,

> Carolyn a very concerned grandma right now in Oregon

>

May 8, 2012

Lora, Funny you say that because a few have emailed me privately for instructions!! Good luck with your son and his approaching puberty. I have a son who will be ten before I know it and already has acne and his head turns when he sees a girl that isn't dressed appropriately! It shall be a challenge! So far he keeps his hands out of his pants (except to adjust his underwear). To: autism-aspergers Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 11:32 PM Subject: RE: Help! Sex problem!

I kept out of this for as long as I could, because and were doing a good job of handling the "problem". But it just kept going and going, and I was very interested in the original topic. It's so sad that a discussion that is very relevant to many of our children has turned into something religious. I have a son who just turned 12 and is rapidly approaching puberty. I'm sure I'll be asking for advice about how to handle certain issues that might arise at some point, and I want to get good sound advice not have it veer off course to religion. This group has provided a lot of useful tips and support, so I generally overlook the messages that I disagree with, or that I find mildly offensive. , I'm glad you kept your sense of humor here, and found a silver lining (figuring out how to block one person). You might need to share those

instructions with others. LoraTo: autism-aspergers From: srt12780@...Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 19:30:39 -0700Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

Thanks to you, Carol.....I have finally figured out how to block messages from one particular person. Even when several ask you to stop you keep going....even in this email. Graham has NOTHING to do with Autism. I should just delete your posts/ ignore them, but after reading this CRAP, it unnerves me (how ignorant and insensitive people can be) and at least now you've unnerved me enough that I finally (after months of wanting to) looked up help menus and figured out how to block you so I'm not unnerved by you again. Thank GOD for help menus!!

To: autism-aspergers Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 10:16 PM Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

I wonâ€™t share anymore. You are right though this is evangelism. Like Graham and his son have preached for decades. And many other evangelists. They just say it how it is and is offensive to some and quite wonderful to others who are looking for a way out of the burden to sin in their lives. I am direct and really donâ€™t see anything wrong with being direct. People just need to hear it directly I think and no beating about the bush that Jesus said He was the way, the truth, and the life and no man cometh to the father accept through me.

I do hope people think about what is said to them directly from the Gospel and not judge the person who is only delivering the Good News to them! But then Jesus said the world would hate us because He is in us.

I have never been able to understand why people hate Jesus and hate Christians. I think there has to be a whole lot of lying and deceiving going on, and people calling themselves Christians who actually are not truly.

I just hope people will read the Bible and began to seek in their hearts the truth of God through the Holy Spirit.

Jesus really does love us all!

If anybody is getting hate out of what I say and especially those who have known me for a long time on this list something has to be wrong with them, for they have no evidence to back up their claims that I am hateful and mean and judgmental. It is just so wrong.

Carolyn

From: Riley

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 6:58 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

CarolynI am not judging your motives, but the sharing was out of place here. One problem is that we all have religious languages that we have learnt, and find them clear and easy. But others don't. If you will forgive me for being blunt, you seem to speak a 'deep' form of evangelical Christianese, and many of us do not respond well to that, even if we actually agree with what is being said. You may want to ponder (but not discuss on here) the thought that how you say things can often lead to people not hearing what you really want to say. This is not the place to just throw in your own beliefs about religiously contentious issues, no matter what your motives for doing so are. This is not a place for arguing religion, so if you know people will either argue with, or be offended by, your belief, don't say it. I have three younger sisters and two children. I don't buy the argument that the person who brings up a contentious issue is not guilty of causing an argument (just saying what they think), but only the ones who argue with it. Don't post any more on this subject.

I know better than to argue about this on here . But just thought I would take the opportunity to share a view held by millions of Christians throughout the world, and it is not a bad view at all, not judgmental, not condemning, but rather gives a way of hope for salvation and for deliverance from sin. I do not like the way it has been watered down and changed and distorted, and yes I know there are dozens of different views and was stating my own clearly with no ambivalence or debate.

Guess we will all find out one day in the end which view was correct. I know I preach Jesus Christ out of real true love for people and a true desire to help in their lives here on earth, and offer them life for all eternity. There is coming a huge revival in the years to come so the world will hear much much more of Christians preaching the truth, to give everybody a chance to choose.

Think about it anyway, donâ€™t make up your mind too quickly without really giving faith in God and in Christ a chance in your life!

Thanks for letting me share, God has helped me raise my son and he is 47 years old now, and I have joy and peace and strength, like I am sure I could never have attained any other way except through Jesus and His love and compassion for me. And He is the same towards everybody. He doesnâ€™t condemn but He saves, is why He died on the cross, to save us all from sin.

Carolyn

From: Riley

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 4:02 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

CarolynPlease refrain from "Christians believe" reports. There are a number of denominations who not only accept homosexuality, but actually will ordain homosexuals as priests/pastors - and even as bishops - and believe the Bible supports their position. Whatever you believe, you will find millions of Christians who agree with you, and millions of Christians who won't. A little humility about being sure they are right wouldn't hurt either side. All I will say on the issue is that all is not as simple as many believe. Having a degree in theology and social science, I think I am qualified to make that observation. What you believe is up to you, but please think about how you say it before going public. And this is not the place to warn or preach.

It may come as a surprise to some of you that not all of us condone this. As a Christian I do not condone it but go by the Bible. I am sorry it upsets so many people these days, but the Bible does still call it sin and an abomination to God. I donâ€™t hate anybody in fact I think I love them because I am willing to put my neck on the chopping block and warn them. If they do not repent and turn from this sin they will go to Hell. Jesus Christ is the only one who can save a person from this kind of bondage.

So there I have said it, if you want to hate me go ahead. I have warned you out of love. There are millions of Christians in this world who believe the same way, so hate us all if you want to, while you preach against hate.

Kind of confusing.

We love you! Jesus loves you! He died to save you!

Just saying.

Carolyn

From: Jane

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:46 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

Yep!

Not to mention homosexuality has nothing to do with molestation question-

Jane

- and since u qualified ur sexual orientation;

Strait- but not narrow- left narrow behind long time ago when I realized love is a better choice than hate.Sent from my iPhone

With all due respect, Carolyn, please just take 's input on the whole lesbian thing and don't say more about it. Everything in your first paragraph is wrong. What you describe is butch-femme relationships--not every lesbian relationship is butch-femme and not every butch-femme relationship is lesbian. Please, just do some reading before you say more about your theories on sexuality on this list.

Terri

Lesbian mom, not a butch or a femme, kid on the spectrum

Where I thought it had relevance was maybe they were thinking that the older brother was assigning the role of female to the younger brother. Since he said to the counselor that his brother calls him a girl. I have noticed in lesbian relationships it appears the assign the role of male to one of them, and the role of female to the other, and yet they are both females.

Just believe that they jumped the gun there as not all people do that. Many if not most are just male or female and do not assign roles.

Anyway I didnâ€™t do anything, just trying to follow their leading and understand what they are saying, which I think is pure rubbage in the case of my two grandsons!

Carolyn

From: L. Sweetman

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:14 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Help! Sex problem!

First, let me say that I'm not certain how there being lesbians at his school has any relevance nor what you mean by that orientation having anything to do with the supposed claims. It, frankly, has absolutely no connection. Assuming it does will likely do more harm than good as will feeling you so emphatically need to say you are NOT of that orientation (as if there is some sort of unwritten code that is tied to sexual orientation). If that becomes part of your argument to the school, you risk alienating people who might otherwise be on your side.

That being said, masturbation is fairly common in children of all sorts regardless of whether or not they have ASD or any other diagnosis. It is a normal part of human development. It is fairly common as a stim for our kids with ASD, though. How parents and family respond affects children in multiple ways, some being tied to self-esteem, body image, and later sexual beliefs others being tied to where or how often they do it (especially in children who, like you say of your grandson, like to push the buttons of the adults around them). Kids are smart. They can very quickly identify what freaks us out and will, in some cases, then do that over and over and over.

Our daughter has had a series of stims over the years. Currently, it is a mind-numbingly annoying snorting/sniffing sound that shakes the rafters. When she was 5 and starting kindergarten, though, it was masturbating. We worked with the school on putting a few things in place to make it a bit less easy for her (for a time, we changed her clothes to limit access. She stopped wearing dresses and skirts. She also had an issue with lifting her dress/skirt up as high as she could, so this tackled two birds with one stone). We and the school also worked on helping her learn what is for public and what is for private. This was especially important because simply telling a child who is stimming to stop doesn't usually work. They are doing it because they need the stimulation and just saying "No" without providing an opportunity for the needed stimulation or an alternative that provides the same sensory input usually won't be effective. When she was at home, if she wanted to masturbate we let her so long as she took the appropriate steps to make it a private activity (i.e. going to her room). It took a couple weeks, but then the public masturbation stopped. It likely continued in her room, but that is exactly as we told her it should. Of course, this requires that the adults in the child's life are able to get over their own issues related to masturbation, if they have any.

We have actually found that the public/private lesson we taught her then has come in handy in other ways. Currently, she is doing a lot of exploration of language so being clear on what she can say at home and what she can say at school has been useful (my husband and I do not believe there is any such thing as a "bad" word, just words that society has decided are more or less acceptable in different situations).

Best,

Hello everybody.

I need your help and input here! My daughter just took her son to school this morning and then she called me quite upset because the counselor there reported to my daughter that my grandson has been playing a lot with his private parts at school. Well he does it here too and we tell him to stop it. He enjoys fondling himself and wears sweat pants all the time because he hates jeans and belts so can easily get his hands in his pants. I think he is doing it as a self stimulation and it has nothing to do with anything sexual really. He is 7 years old and in 2nd grade. Also he likes to do things to get a rise out of adults, such as he will say bad cuss words but when I tell him to stop he stops.

Well evidentially they have been talking to him at school quite a bit and have been coaching him on what they think might be happening with leading questions about his older brother who is 11. And evidentially my grandson said that his older brother calls him a girl. Well they tease and fight all the time and say all sorts of things to each other. Donâ€™t all brothers do that I wonder!

It took me awhile to â€œget itâ€ as my daughter was talking today, and it finally came to me that that stupid school thinks that my older grandson is performing some sort of sexual act upon his younger brother and that is why he is calling him a girl!!

Aaaaa! There are many lesbians there at school and not that this is a bad thing, but we are NOT of that orientation and so it took us awhile to get what they were getting at!

The school counselor today said she is going to have to report it to the department of child services. And my daughter does not know what to do because her child has autism and says and does all sorts of inappropriate things!

Can any of you relate to this and tell us what you did? Please?

Maybe some examples written out from you guys I can print out and she can take them to the school counselor there to see examples of how this was handled in other. She has a masters degree in special ed with a specialty in autism she says.

Thank you,

Carolyn a very concerned grandma right now in Oregon

-- Terri D. Eagen-TorkkoFull-time feminist event planner, freelance editor, 24/7 bonus mom

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May 8, 2012

you may do as you please, but just remember this one thing it is only your opinion. There are very many people here on this group and elsewhere who love what I say and have found help through their faith in God and His Son Jesus Christ. My whole life has been about my autistic son and finding the help I needed for him and for me in this long haul. Please keep in mind that although you find what I share offensive to you personally, that many others have found what I say the answer to their prayers for help in their lives.

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Re: Help! Sex problem!

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