Re: when ocd strikes

[Guest guest]

Hi DC,

Thanks for the update! Are her problems focussing at school caused by

her OCD? My daughter also has ADHD, or at least the psychologist is

quite certain she does; she did a battery of tests, but she doesn't

fit all of the criteria. Her teachers couldn't see it. She has no

behavioral problems at school and her grades are average. She holds

it all together at school, and then BOOM! explosion, the minute she

walks through the door. She was displaying many signs of anxiety,

shortness of breath, heart racing, throat clearing, fear, and then,

the OCD stuff slowly started appearing. It is not debilitating

(yet!), but it is just an add-on to the rest of the stuff. The

meltdowns are the worst, in terms of physical and emotional demand,

and constantly trying to be on top of things, planning, etc. She is

very impulsive and looks for stimulation. She wants a million things,

immediately. But the OCD is by far the scariest! I feel desperate to

stay on top of it, so that it doesn't spin out of control. She is on

ADHD meds, Strattera for which we are starting to see improvements.

She is not on any SSRI's at this point. We are waiting to see if

calming down the ADHD will calm down the anxiety. One thing that

helped my daughter tremendously for school is a tutor. She sees her

only 1 hour a week. But it is enough to give her time to review class

material, in a quiet. The teacher says it has made a big difference.

Anyway, enough about us! It's just that I understand how hard it is

to watch our kids suffer, and to constantly be thinking of ways to

make it better. It is exhausting!

How does homework go? I have had to relax my homework standards here,

because most times, it ends in tears ans meltdowns. I just can't take

the screaming!!

Anyway, I am NOT the expert here, especially since we are fairly new

at this OCD thing, but maybe you could ask her to choose how she can

change the ritual. That it's her way of telling OCD he is not the

boss. Maybe it won't be much at first, but you could build on it.

Tell her she will add to it once she is comfortable. But I know how

it is when they are closed and just can't move forward. My daughter's

biggest thing is constantly asking reassurance questions. Eg. " I

stepped on squirrel tracks, can I get rabies? " The shampoo bottle

says not to swallow; what if I get a little in my mouth? " And the

same questions get asked over and over. I have not yet found a way to

start working on that. She will meltdown if I refuse to answer the

question. Her psychologist says to let it go for now, if it is too

hard, so we work on the bedtime showering, etc. ritual which has been

going ok, slowly eliminating a few steps. We picked this one because

my daughter chose that one to work on. She felt like she could manage it.

Well, I have gone on way too long! Best of luck to you!

Dianne

> > > > >

> > > > > Connie,

> > > > >

> > > > > I like the idea about recording the anxiety level after she

> > > washes

> > > > > her hands. How does he record it, rate by numbers? I think

> I

> > > > will

> > > > > do this with my daughter. She has this thing were she keeps

> > > > wiping

> > > > > after she goes to the BR, she doesn't feel like she is clean

> > > > enough.

> > > > > She has been clogging the toilets up and missing lots of

> class

> > > > time.

> > > > > ANy advise on to how to help her at school?? I feel like she

> > > > needs

> > > > > someone with her all day to monitor her behavior.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks again for sharing. Please let me know how your son

> did

> > > the

> > > > > rating. My daughter is only 8, so I think whatever it is it

> would

> > > > > need to be simple. Did your therapist set a number on how

> many

> > > > times

> > > > > he could wash his hands or when he could wash or are you just

> > > > > concentrating on the time thing for now??

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > DC

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

**********************

My daughter's biggest thing is constantly asking reassurance questions.

**************

This is one of Kate's most frustrating issues, too. " Does the world get new air

or do we breathe the same air everyone else has already breathed!? " " Mommy?

Will you be mad if Collie (fav stuffed animal) wears out? " " Tell me again about

the disease that so-and-so had and they died? " " But I can't go to sleep! It is

raining and what if there's a tornado or a hurricane!? " Ugh!

The only thing that has helped us in this realm is to say, " I doubt it. " or " I

honestly don't know but will ask someone. " Often these come up at night and I

have to tell her that " We'll discuss it in the morning. For right now I need

you to get some sleep. " Then we do the glass of water routine and some of our

other calming techniques.

Have you tried a more stern, re-focusing approach? This is what her teacher did

when Kate was having melt downs at school. We didn't know it was OCD at the

time but her teacher does have OCD and taught Kate some of her coping mechanisms

(I LOVE this teacher!). When Kate was panicking she put a firm arm around her

shoulders and said, " We are NOT going to do this, Kate. So -- I want you to

walk back to the room with me to get your lunch box. On the way you are going

to tell me the names of everything you see. " So they walked back to get her

lunchbox (the forgotten item that led to the meltdown) and she said, " door . . .

teacher . . . 3rd graders . . . yellow poster . . . resource room . . . water

fountain. . . " She was apparently back to her old self within less than a

minute. I think the key for her was redirection. If her mind is focusing on

some task that takes her brain power (finding names of things and then saying

them) then she breaks the obsession. Does that make sense?

Beth

[Guest guest]

Thank you Beth! My son has been diagnosed for one week today so I'm

brand new to all of this. I have been reading most of the messages and

I'm starting to know my son more from all of your information. There

are things that he does, like Beth's daughter with the constant

reassurance, and I didn't even realize that it was the OCD. I just

thought he was tirelessly curious! LOL. I just wanted to Thank everyone

for sharing your experiences. It really helps to know that we are not

alone.

[Guest guest]

Hi Beth,

You are right! Redirection can work great. I discovered this can work

well for some of my daughter's meltdowns. She will often meltdown

when she wants something(that she can't have)and gets " stuck "

obsessing over it. Like the other night, she had been in a meltdown

for almost 1 hour, and I finally said " hey, we are about to order out

for dinner. How about you be in charge of taking everybody's order " .

She snapped right out of it. Ordering out is something she loves. By

the way, I hadn't planned to order out, but I hadn't been able to get

supper ready with her carrying on forever! She started another one

the other night, so I quickly thought about redirecting, so I

suggested we go for a walk around the block. Again, she snapped out of

it and said " can I ring my friend's doorbell and say Hi? "

Now, I just need to figure out how to apply this with her questioning.

She can't know what I am trying to do or she would accuse me of

" tricking " her.

About bedtime, my pediatrician suggest I try Melatonin. I wasn't sure

what it was, so I looked it up. It is sold over the counter as a

" natural remedy " . It is basically a synthetic version of the chemical

in our brain that helps tell us to go to sleep. People take this for

jet lag, or if they are on variable shift work. Anyway, since I

started giving it to her about 15-30 minutes before bed, she drops off

within 10 minutes! Before, it was sometimes an hour before I could

get her to settle down, relax and stop asking questions! The

melatonin made a huge difference. And she gets more sleep, which

helps with everything else.

Cheers!

Dianne

>

> **********************

> My daughter's biggest thing is constantly asking reassurance questions.

> **************

>

> This is one of Kate's most frustrating issues, too. " Does the world

get new air or do we breathe the same air everyone else has already

breathed!? " " Mommy? Will you be mad if Collie (fav stuffed animal)

wears out? " " Tell me again about the disease that so-and-so had and

they died? " " But I can't go to sleep! It is raining and what if

there's a tornado or a hurricane!? " Ugh!

>

> The only thing that has helped us in this realm is to say, " I doubt

it. " or " I honestly don't know but will ask someone. " Often these

come up at night and I have to tell her that " We'll discuss it in the

morning. For right now I need you to get some sleep. " Then we do the

glass of water routine and some of our other calming techniques.

>

> Have you tried a more stern, re-focusing approach? This is what her

teacher did when Kate was having melt downs at school. We didn't know

it was OCD at the time but her teacher does have OCD and taught Kate

some of her coping mechanisms (I LOVE this teacher!). When Kate was

panicking she put a firm arm around her shoulders and said, " We are

NOT going to do this, Kate. So -- I want you to walk back to the room

with me to get your lunch box. On the way you are going to tell me

the names of everything you see. " So they walked back to get her

lunchbox (the forgotten item that led to the meltdown) and she said,

" door . . . teacher . . . 3rd graders . . . yellow poster . . .

resource room . . . water fountain. . . " She was apparently back to

her old self within less than a minute. I think the key for her was

redirection. If her mind is focusing on some task that takes her

brain power (finding names of things and then saying them) then she

breaks the obsession. Does that make sense?

>

> Beth

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

now that i have at least said hello and given a little information, i

can tend to these emails i've flagged over the past few weeks that

were relevant to us as well.

my daughter too clogged the toilets. recently, she suddenly switched

to asking if she could use even the smallest square to wipe her nose

with. she had learned where paper comes from and is very distressed

over living trees becoming paper products. she won't use the bathroom

at school because she wants to avoid the stress. she comes home every

day and rushes to the bathroom.

she has become the ultimate poster child for " green. " she stopped

eating meat next.. then thought there was meat in everything, even a

glass of water. when i bought meatless soy chicken nuggets and veggie

burgers she had to read the package from the garbage twenty times to

be sure, and even then, she wasn't, as you must know.

then a teacher at school told her that vegans don't eat eggs and other

animal by-products. there went the eggs and a call to the teacher.

even though they have a vegetarian selection at lunch she won't eat

there. if i make her lunch she will tell me she thought there was

meat in it and i wasn't there to ask.

next came asking about everything in the house - is it made of

leather? how do you know? asking people in the stores if there is

leather inside, etc. won't wear two pair of cool clogs her grannie

sent her.. is this barbie made of leather? etc..

anyone who didn't know what was going on would think her parents are

incredibly earthy-crunchy.

i take spiders outside for her and can't smush an ant in front of her.

every stuffed animal she has is " real " and she says they talk to

her.. maybe you could hear too if you listened hard enough, she says.

i'm still trying to figure out if she hears voices from the inside of

her head, or from the outside in. regardless, they are very real for her.

one day a few weeks ago she started standing books up, like on display

in stores, lots of space between every page. i knew it was because of

the animals or people in the book. she wanted to make sure they could

breathe. then all pictures, cards.. anything with a representation of

a live thing were spread out all over or standing up..

i know ocd is not psychotic, but it sure looks like it sometimes.

looking at our betta in the fish tank she swears she's eating it.

is the only difference between psychotic or not whether the person

recognizes there's a problem?

just some thoughts..

>

> BJ,

>

> Thanks for getting back to me.

>

> My daughter's compulsions are more then just the hand washing. She

> also has this issue were she just doesn't feel like she clean enough

> and continues to wipe- until she ends up clogging the toilets! And

> for a little while she was having the issue about having to pee over

> and over and over... just like your son, but that kinda just went away

> (thanks GOD!). SHe does a lot of washing after she goes to the

> bathroom- she washes her arms, all the way to her elbows. She has

> been slipping back since our therapy session have ended, but today

> has been the worst.

>

> Her teacher said she missed most of her math class today because she

> was in the BR and when she finally did join the class she didn't get

> any work don. The teacher says really is not on task and not getting

> her class work done. I feel like I don't know how to help her at

> school?? Do you have any suggestions???

>

> .... ....edited

>

> DC

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Oh My God, after reading your post, I thought I wrote it about my son!

Especailly thie thing about the fish! My son said to me when this all started

that he was eating the fish, that they were in his mouth.

My son never clogged the toilets, but my dd does that.I have 2 kids with the

ocd, but my son's is much worse than my dd.

I went through this since my son was 4, with the wondering if he had

schizophrenia or not. He is now 6 1/2. He has been to 3 doctors that all say

that it is " bad thought ocd " . I was told that if your  child knows these things

are not really happening(like eating the fish) than you know it's the ocd. It's

when they think it is real, that you have to worry about schizophrenia. I had

two doctors say my son was psychotic due to the horrific thoughts.I 'm bringing

him to another place for another opinion

I feel so bad for you  because I can relate so much!!!!!!

Hang in there!

Hugs

judy

Re: when ocd strikes

now that i have at least said hello and given a little information, i

can tend to these emails i've flagged over the past few weeks that

were relevant to us as well.

my daughter too clogged the toilets. recently, she suddenly switched

to asking if she could use even the smallest square to wipe her nose

with. she had learned where paper comes from and is very distressed

over living trees becoming paper products. she won't use the bathroom

at school because she wants to avoid the stress. she comes home every

day and rushes to the bathroom.

she has become the ultimate poster child for " green. " she stopped

eating meat next.. then thought there was meat in everything, even a

glass of water. when i bought meatless soy chicken nuggets and veggie

burgers she had to read the package from the garbage twenty times to

be sure, and even then, she wasn't, as you must know.

then a teacher at school told her that vegans don't eat eggs and other

animal by-products. there went the eggs and a call to the teacher.

even though they have a vegetarian selection at lunch she won't eat

there. if i make her lunch she will tell me she thought there was

meat in it and i wasn't there to ask.

next came asking about everything in the house - is it made of

leather? how do you know? asking people in the stores if there is

leather inside, etc. won't wear two pair of cool clogs her grannie

sent her.. is this barbie made of leather? etc..

anyone who didn't know what was going on would think her parents are

incredibly earthy-crunchy.

i take spiders outside for her and can't smush an ant in front of her.

every stuffed animal she has is " real " and she says they talk to

her.. maybe you could hear too if you listened hard enough, she says.

i'm still trying to figure out if she hears voices from the inside of

her head, or from the outside in. regardless, they are very real for her.

one day a few weeks ago she started standing books up, like on display

in stores, lots of space between every page. i knew it was because of

the animals or people in the book. she wanted to make sure they could

breathe. then all pictures, cards.. anything with a representation of

a live thing were spread out all over or standing up..

i know ocd is not psychotic, but it sure looks like it sometimes.

looking at our betta in the fish tank she swears she's eating it.

is the only difference between psychotic or not whether the person

recognizes there's a problem?

just some thoughts..

>

> BJ,

>

> Thanks for getting back to me.

>

> My daughter's compulsions are more then just the hand washing. She

> also has this issue were she just doesn't feel like she clean enough

> and continues to wipe- until she ends up clogging the toilets! And

> for a little while she was having the issue about having to pee over

> and over and over... just like your son, but that kinda just went away

> (thanks GOD!). SHe does a lot of washing after she goes to the

> bathroom- she washes her arms, all the way to her elbows. She has

> been slipping back since our therapy session have ended, but today

> has been the worst.

>

> Her teacher said she missed most of her math class today because she

> was in the BR and when she finally did join the class she didn't get

> any work don. The teacher says really is not on task and not getting

> her class work done. I feel like I don't know how to help her at

> school?? Do you have any suggestions? ??

>

> .... ....edited

>

> DC

[Guest guest]

Wow, . Your daughter's case seems very severe. How

old is she? My 11 yo son also assigns feelings to

inanimate objects, including stuffed animals, as well

as insects which I kill in front of him anyway to show

him he'll live through it.

I don't know what constitutes psychosis but I suspect

it has something to do with one's grasp of reality.

Have a calm day.

--- Beskin wrote:

> now that i have at least said hello and given a

> little information, i

> can tend to these emails i've flagged over the past

> few weeks that

> were relevant to us as well.

>

>

> my daughter too clogged the toilets. recently, she

> suddenly switched

> to asking if she could use even the smallest square

> to wipe her nose

> with. she had learned where paper comes from and is

> very distressed

> over living trees becoming paper products. she won't

> use the bathroom

> at school because she wants to avoid the stress.

> she comes home every

> day and rushes to the bathroom.

>

> she has become the ultimate poster child for

> " green. " she stopped

> eating meat next.. then thought there was meat in

> everything, even a

> glass of water. when i bought meatless soy chicken

> nuggets and veggie

> burgers she had to read the package from the garbage

> twenty times to

> be sure, and even then, she wasn't, as you must

> know.

>

> then a teacher at school told her that vegans don't

> eat eggs and other

> animal by-products. there went the eggs and a call

> to the teacher.

>

> even though they have a vegetarian selection at

> lunch she won't eat

> there. if i make her lunch she will tell me she

> thought there was

> meat in it and i wasn't there to ask.

>

> next came asking about everything in the house - is

> it made of

> leather? how do you know? asking people in the

> stores if there is

> leather inside, etc. won't wear two pair of cool

> clogs her grannie

> sent her.. is this barbie made of leather? etc..

>

> anyone who didn't know what was going on would think

> her parents are

> incredibly earthy-crunchy.

>

> i take spiders outside for her and can't smush an

> ant in front of her.

> every stuffed animal she has is " real " and she says

> they talk to

> her.. maybe you could hear too if you listened hard

> enough, she says.

> i'm still trying to figure out if she hears voices

> from the inside of

> her head, or from the outside in. regardless, they

> are very real for her.

>

> one day a few weeks ago she started standing books

> up, like on display

> in stores, lots of space between every page. i knew

> it was because of

> the animals or people in the book. she wanted to

> make sure they could

> breathe. then all pictures, cards.. anything with a

> representation of

> a live thing were spread out all over or standing

> up..

>

> i know ocd is not psychotic, but it sure looks like

> it sometimes.

> looking at our betta in the fish tank she swears

> she's eating it.

>

> is the only difference between psychotic or not

> whether the person

> recognizes there's a problem?

>

> just some thoughts..

>

>

>

> >

> > BJ,

> >

> > Thanks for getting back to me.

> >

> > My daughter's compulsions are more then just the

> hand washing. She

> > also has this issue were she just doesn't feel

> like she clean enough

> > and continues to wipe- until she ends up clogging

> the toilets! And

> > for a little while she was having the issue about

> having to pee over

> > and over and over... just like your son, but that

> kinda just went away

> > (thanks GOD!). SHe does a lot of washing after she

> goes to the

> > bathroom- she washes her arms, all the way to her

> elbows. She has

> > been slipping back since our therapy session have

> ended, but today

> > has been the worst.

> >

> > Her teacher said she missed most of her math class

> today because she

> > was in the BR and when she finally did join the

> class she didn't get

> > any work don. The teacher says really is not on

> task and not getting

> > her class work done. I feel like I don't know how

> to help her at

> > school?? Do you have any suggestions???

> >

> > .... ....edited

> >

> > DC

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I'm probably asking questions you've already answered. . (took a

needed break, somewhat, for a while so haven't been keeping up), but

is your daughter on medication? How old is she? Is she in therapy

using CBT and ERP?

Our son was similar to what you are describing when he was off of

medication. Sometimes he would tell me things that was going on

inside of his head that would make me cringe, although I would keep my

game face on for his sake (didn't want to freak him out that I was

freaking out). I would cringe (inwardly) because I was shocked at all

the stuff he was having to contend with, that he couldn't turn off.

All the chatter and minute details going through his mind, and things

that overlapped, as OCD ran rampant.

What you shared sounds very familiar. Medication helped a lot for us,

and therapy is taking care of the rest. Our son is living pretty well

now,. . Not perfect, but better. Better is acceptable. Don't lose hope.

BJ

> >

> > BJ,

> >

> > Thanks for getting back to me.

> >

> > My daughter's compulsions are more then just the hand washing. She

> > also has this issue were she just doesn't feel like she clean enough

> > and continues to wipe- until she ends up clogging the toilets! And

> > for a little while she was having the issue about having to pee over

> > and over and over... just like your son, but that kinda just went away

> > (thanks GOD!). SHe does a lot of washing after she goes to the

> > bathroom- she washes her arms, all the way to her elbows. She has

> > been slipping back since our therapy session have ended, but today

> > has been the worst.

> >

> > Her teacher said she missed most of her math class today because she

> > was in the BR and when she finally did join the class she didn't get

> > any work don. The teacher says really is not on task and not getting

> > her class work done. I feel like I don't know how to help her at

> > school?? Do you have any suggestions???

> >

> > .... ....edited

> >

> > DC

>

[Guest guest]

" i know ocd is not psychotic, but it sure looks like it sometimes.

> looking at our betta in the fish tank she swears she's eating it.

> is the only difference between psychotic or not whether the person

> recognizes there's a problem? just some thoughts.. "

Hi ,

Our son fused with the OCD to become one at some point. It sure

looked psychotic at times, and our son did not recognize it as a

problem, and still often will not. It IS him, his identity, he does

not like the separation and referencing the OCD, again, because it is

HIM.

He is almost 17, he knows he has OCD, and he knows it causes

problems, but it also, he feels, has made him smarter and more

powerful in ways. Since the OCD is the ultimate bully, I think he

wants to be part of that, rather than being the one being bullied (a

past issue)....

It goes on, but I'll stop. Long and the short of it, OCD takes on

many forms and sure can take over these kids until they seem

unrecognizable, at least that is our experience. Can be pretty

freaky at times can't it?!!!

Barb

[Guest guest]

hey guys,

I have been reading through this thread and it is so nice to " see " my

children in here. Makes me feel like maybe they aren't crazy or I am

not crazy thinking everything they do is/can be OCD related.

All three of my children have OCD. They have had it since birth. I

can remember my daughter being like three to six months old and she

would make this crazy noise. I thought she wasn't breathing, but she

was, so then I thought maybe she was hyperventalating. anyways,

after a couple of panic attacks of my own because I couldn't figure

out what was happening with her, my husband and I finally figured out

that she was doing this when she wet her diaper. Now I always heard

that if the child did not like a wet diaper it was time to potty

train, but the girl could not even walk, or sit up. That's how I

knew with her. The two boys showed signs too. I wish now though

that I was more aware with my oldest son. I think sometimes that I

could have helped him more if I had just known. We (my husband and

I) have been so much better with the younger two. Which I tell my

oldest son we are very grateful to him for. Without him as our

experiment, life would be much worse for his siblings.

I do wonder though as I read through all the different coping

mechanisms on these posts and as I read through all the different

literature if trying to make them " turn off " their thoughts is the

best way. I mean, part of what I try to do with my kids is help them

accept their idiocyncracies, for lack of better word. We didn't put

the kids on meds until they felt their compulsions were problems.

for instance, my youngest son has always " needed " small pieces of

plastic. Of course at first we wouldn't allow him to have it. Once

we realized how much of a need this was for him, we just made rules.

He couldn't have it in bed, he couldn't take it out of the house, he

couldn't put it around his mouth. Once he got to school though, the

anxiety was so high, that he was sneaking the plastic out of the

house. Finally, we had to readjust the rules so he could cope.

After a while though, even the new rules did not work for him because

the other kids were always making fun of him. It was then that he

asked for additional help, which is when we put him on meds. In

fact, he has such an awareness of his needs that he fills out those

questionaires about behavior for the Dr., not just me.

So, I wrote all that to ask if y'all thought that we (all of

us:parents,doctors, psychiatrists, other family members, etc.) work

too hard to " fix " them instead of teaching them to accept themselves?

16 yr old son on wellbutrin, 8 yr old daughter on paxil and vyvanse,

8 yr old son on prozac, congentin, focalin

[Guest guest]

So, I wrote all that to ask if y'all thought that we (all of

us:parents,doctors, psychiatrists, other family members, etc.) work

too hard to " fix " them instead of teaching them to accept themselves?

, I was so excited to see this. I have been asking myself this question a

lot lately. Should I expect my son to eliminate all his compulsions, or simply

to learn how to work them so they don't interfere with his life?

Now, I'm thinking of the diabetes analogy. If our kids had diabetes, another

biological disorder, would we expect them to just accept it as part of

themselves and not treat it? I have seen how lack of treatment can lead to

worsening of compulsive behavior, frustration, self-hate and even suicide

ideation. But maybe you weren't implying withholding treatment...

Have you heard that motto, " It's not me. It's OCD. " We're supposed to help our

kids separate themselves from their disease, which would be at odds with

teaching them to accept it as an inevitable part of their lives.

Great question, anyway.

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[Guest guest]

!

Diabetes is exactly what i keep comparing it to! I just keep thinking

about it because I don't want my children to feel like they are plagued

with a " disease " . I want them to understand this his just how their

bodies work and to accept that about themselves. If it was diabetes,

they wouldn't go their entire life and not eat sweets. They would

learn there was a time and a place, moderation. I just keep mulling it

because the idea of trying to " change " them really bothers me.

[Guest guest]

Your ideas make sense. Fact is, you probably can't

change them because in most cases, OCD never goes away

forever. Maybe it's more like being a recovering

alcoholic, and you're always in recovery.

The more you practice abstinence, the easier it gets.

And hopefully, the more our kids use their coping

techniques when the anxiety strikes, rather than using

their compulsions, the easier it will get for them.

--- t wrote:

> !

> Diabetes is exactly what i keep comparing it to! I

> just keep thinking

> about it because I don't want my children to feel

> like they are plagued

> with a " disease " . I want them to understand this

> his just how their

> bodies work and to accept that about themselves. If

> it was diabetes,

> they wouldn't go their entire life and not eat

> sweets. They would

> learn there was a time and a place, moderation. I

> just keep mulling it

> because the idea of trying to " change " them really

> bothers me.

>

>

>