Progesterone

[Guest guest]

>> The progesterone was always low but now it's worse than ever and you need

progesterone for a healthy pregnancy. The doctor's solution is to take chaste

tree tablets (a herb that stimulates your body's progesterone production). When

I was taking chaste tree before, it didn't seem to make that much difference. <<

Well, as a dog breeder, I have heard of some bitches who couldn't keep their

pregnancies who had low progesterone. In every case, this problem was reversed

by the administration of exogenous progesterone. I would think you should

consult a fertility specialist, instead of a GP or even an OB/GYN, if you are

interested in this approach. Because... and now we come to your question...

>> So my question is. What else can I do to try and kickstart my progesterone

production? Any hints? <<

PROGESTERONE will help kickstart your progesterone production, used correctly.

There is a feedback cycle of your sex hormones (well, not just sex hormones, all

hormones) and when one is off, they all can get off. Sometimes what you need to

do is to supplement with the hormone that is very low for a short time, in

appropriate doses and with appropriate monitoring, to let the normal cycle

reassert itself.

Every time you ovulate, your body should produce the progesterone it needs to

keep the cycle progressing normally. If not, the problem could be:

You are not actually ovulating (you would still have periods, but wouldn't

conceive, so I'm assuming you are ovulating. But have you checked?).

Your other hormones are out of whack, and not getting or giving the right

messages from or to progesterone (ok, I don't mean this literally <G>).

Your body is producing progesterone normally but for some reason you aren't able

to use that progesterone.

If you went to a fertility specialist you could get comprehensive hormone levels

done, not just progesterone, and might be able to get more of a clue what's

going on.

I do believe that the system can be restored to balance with lifestyle and diet

changes (plenty of sleep, less artifical light, dietary improvements especially

better and more fats, avoiding exogenous estrogenic substances, etc), but I also

think that the use of bioidentical human hormones (not enhormones like

Premarin) can be used judiciously to get things back in order more quickly.

And I apologize to anyone who is on my WellPeople list and who saw me say many

of these exact things just the other day to someone else...

Christie

[Guest guest]

>The iron makes sense, I guess a miscarriage would drop that significantly. It

was low before anyway. So I guess I need to have more raw organic liver and

maybe take some floradix.

>

>The progesterone was always low but now it's worse than ever and you need

progesterone for a healthy pregnancy. The doctor's solution is to take chaste

tree tablets (a herb that stimulates your body's progesterone production). When

I was taking chaste tree before, it didn't seem to make that much difference.

>

>So my question is. What else can I do to try and kickstart my progesterone

production? Any hints?

>

>Thanks,

>

>Filippa

I can't keep track of who " does grains " and who doesn't, but WBR

(wheat/barley/rye) gluten really fouls up hormones (and iron). Possibly other

IgA allergies would too.

Working out with heavy weights does wonders for hormones ... it only takes 15

minutes a day or so to make a wonderful difference (ask Chris).

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

From: Christie

[if not, the problem could be:

You are not actually ovulating (you would still have periods, but wouldn't

conceive, so I'm assuming you are ovulating. But have you checked?).]

====> good question. Well I know I ovulated before as I conceived for my

pregnancy (obviously) but now I don't know if I'm ovulating. Also it has just

occurred to me that we always did my blood tests around Day 21 of my cycle.

This time I wouldn't know where I am in my cycle having just miscarried but I

doubt it would be Day 21. So this could account partly for such a low reading.

(I must read up on when progesterone is high or low in the cycle). What I do

know is that according to my Dr it has always been too low and now it's the

lowest ever. Regarding checking for ovulation, are you talking about an actual

test?

[if you went to a fertility specialist you could get comprehensive hormone

levels done, not just progesterone, and might be able to get more of a clue

what's going on.]

===> Yes, that's probably a good idea. I've heard that it's better to do

several tests throughout the cycle to really find out what's going on with

hormones. So the abnormal progesterone levels may be a key to other hormone

imbalances that I haven't been tested for.

I do believe that the system can be restored to balance with lifestyle and diet

changes (plenty of sleep, less artifical light, dietary improvements especially

better and more fats, avoiding exogenous estrogenic substances, etc), but I also

think that the use of bioidentical human hormones (not enhormones like

Premarin) can be used judiciously to get things back in order more quickly.

====> Well I think I've really made a lot of those changes and had a pretty

natural lifestyle anyway. But maybe 1 year isn't enough to right the wrongs of

18 years of vegetarianism! I didn't see a lot of change when I was taking

chaste tree last year but maybe it needs perseverence. I'm a bit nervous of

taking actual hormones (rather than herbs) but maybe this is something I need to

look into.

And I apologize to anyone who is on my WellPeople list and who saw me say many

of these exact things just the other day to someone else...

===> Thanks Christie and apologies for making you repeat yourself!!

Filippa

[Guest guest]

Heidi:

[i can't keep track of who " does grains " and who doesn't, but WBR

(wheat/barley/rye) gluten really fouls up hormones (and iron). Possibly other

IgA allergies would too. ]

===> yes I'm a " no-grainer " thanks to you and others. I do confess to having

wheat once in a blue moon (usually when we have guests to lunch). So I guess

that's not good and I should stay away from it entirely.

[Working out with heavy weights does wonders for hormones ... it only takes 15

minutes a day or so to make a wonderful difference (ask Chris).]

===> sighhhh, I just wish I was more of an exercise freak (I walk and swim but I

suppose that doesn't count). Does it work wonders for all hormones or just

testosterone? (I think I need a personal trainer ;-)

Filippa

[Guest guest]

[sending this again as it doesn't seem to have gone through]

From: Christie

[if not, the problem could be:

You are not actually ovulating (you would still have periods, but wouldn't

conceive, so I'm assuming you are ovulating. But have you checked?).]

====> good question. Well I know I ovulated before as I conceived for my

pregnancy (obviously) but now I don't know if I'm ovulating. Also it has just

occurred to me that we always did my blood tests around Day 21 of my cycle.

This time I wouldn't know where I am in my cycle having just miscarried but I

doubt it would be Day 21. So this could account partly for such a low reading.

(I must read up on when progesterone is high or low in the cycle). What I do

know is that according to my Dr it has always been too low and now it's the

lowest ever. Regarding checking for ovulation, are you talking about an actual

test?

[if you went to a fertility specialist you could get comprehensive hormone

levels done, not just progesterone, and might be able to get more of a clue

what's going on.]

===> Yes, that's probably a good idea. I've heard that it's better to do

several tests throughout the cycle to really find out what's going on with

hormones. So the abnormal progesterone levels may be a key to other hormone

imbalances that I haven't been tested for.

I do believe that the system can be restored to balance with lifestyle and diet

changes (plenty of sleep, less artifical light, dietary improvements especially

better and more fats, avoiding exogenous estrogenic substances, etc), but I also

think that the use of bioidentical human hormones (not enhormones like

Premarin) can be used judiciously to get things back in order more quickly.

====> Well I think I've really made a lot of those changes and had a pretty

natural lifestyle anyway. But maybe 1 year isn't enough to right the wrongs of

18 years of vegetarianism! I didn't see a lot of change when I was taking

chaste tree last year but maybe it needs perseverence. I'm a bit nervous of

taking actual hormones (rather than herbs) but maybe this is something I need to

look into.

And I apologize to anyone who is on my WellPeople list and who saw me say many

of these exact things just the other day to someone else...

===> Thanks Christie and apologies for making you repeat yourself!!

Filippa

[Guest guest]

You can use progesterone cream...

And I am new- just joined yesterday. I am rereading Nourishing Traditions.

We have eaten organically for quite a while but I recently read " Patient

Heal Thyself " by Jordan Rubin and he recommends NT so I thought I would

reread it and I am glad I did. I will be changing quite a few of the things

we eat, making more homemade breakfast foods and such...

Looking forward to gleaning much wisdom!!

Amy, wife to Steve, home schooling Mom to 16 wonderful blessings from God(2

homegrown, 14 adopted)and praying for more!!

[Guest guest]

At 12:07 AM 3/10/2004, you wrote:

>So my question is. What else can I do to try and kickstart my

>progesterone production? Any hints?

hey, filippa -

yams will do this for you. also, stay away from chicken and soy (well,

you're already away from soy!) as they have high

estrogen/estrogen-producing/estrogen-like content.

when a friend of mine was pregnant with her third and was sick of being

sick all the time, (her body was overproducing estrogen (she was a soy

freak)), we fed her a yam a day. finally, she was able to have a normal

life during pregnancy!!

ymmv, and i'll hit the books tonight about it, but give it a shot!

-katja

[Guest guest]

christie said:

At 12:41 AM 3/10/2004, you wrote:

>Your body is producing progesterone normally but for some reason you

>aren't able to use that progesterone.

good point. i wasn't very clear about this, but the thing for my friend

wasn't that she had no progesterone, but that she had SO. MUCH. estrogen

that there was this great and mighty imbalance...

-katja

[Guest guest]

>> Regarding checking for ovulation, are you talking about an actual test? <<

This one is easy! You can get an ovulation test kit at any pharmacy, women use

them to check their fertility for both contraception and conception timing.

Piece of cake.

>> I'm a bit nervous of taking actual hormones (rather than herbs) but maybe

this is something I need to look into. <<

I don't buy everything she says, but have you read any of Dr. Vliet's books?

Christie

[Guest guest]

>> when a friend of mine was pregnant with her third and was sick of being

sick all the time, (her body was overproducing estrogen (she was a soy

freak)), we fed her a yam a day. <<

The yam that regulates (or can regulate) hormone levels is not the common yam

you buy in the produce store. It's Dioscorea villosa, while the yam in the

market is Ipomoea batatas, from a completely different plant family.

So while your friend may have benefited in some way from eating yams, it had

nothing to do with the reputation of yams for helping with PMS and other hormone

problems. They are two totally different plants.

Christie

[Guest guest]

At 11:59 AM 3/10/2004, you wrote:

> >> when a friend of mine was pregnant with her third and was sick of being

>sick all the time, (her body was overproducing estrogen (she was a soy

>freak)), we fed her a yam a day. <<

>

>The yam that regulates (or can regulate) hormone levels is not the common

>yam you buy in the produce store. It's Dioscorea villosa, while the yam in

>the market is Ipomoea batatas, from a completely different plant family.

>

>So while your friend may have benefited in some way from eating yams, it

>had nothing to do with the reputation of yams for helping with PMS and

>other hormone problems. They are two totally different plants.

or she might have had the not-from-the-market yams? i'm not sure where they

came from. they were not, however, sweet potatoes.

tell me more about yams!!

-katja

[Guest guest]

>===> sighhhh, I just wish I was more of an exercise freak (I walk and swim but

I suppose that doesn't count). Does it work wonders for all hormones or just

testosterone? (I think I need a personal trainer ;-)

>

>Filippa

I don't have any evidence one way or another,

but it totally changes me for the better. I kind of think

all the hormones are linked ... when you get healthier,

they all get more balanced.

The nice thing about weights is that they take very little

TIME. I do arm weights in a simple routine, and the

" one legged squats " when I'm in my bedroom changing

clothes or whatever (which take oh, 40 seconds). And

a little yoga when I think of it to stay stretchy.

Sunlight is great too, but you should be getting that,

if you are walking!

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>> or she might have had the not-from-the-market yams? i'm not sure where they

came from. they were not, however, sweet potatoes.

tell me more about yams!! <<

Well, we had these things called " sweet potatos " in the US, which had white

flesh.

Then some orange-fleshed ones came on the market, and they were christened

" yams, " even though they are not yams.

Yams are almost unknown in the US. I live in Northern CA, in Sonoma County,

where ethnic, unusual, and gourmet food items are common as dirt, and I have

NEVER seen a true yam for sale in a grocery store, natural foods market, or

produce market or stand. Never. I have seen many things sold as yams, but they

are actually different varieties of sweet potato.

Dioscorea villosa, wild yam, is used as an extract or herbal supplement for

hormone regulation. Other true yams, that is, the tubers of other types of

dioscorea, are eaten, but wild yam has only tiny little roots, about a quarter

to a half inch in diameter.

Other species of dioscorea, which are eaten, are dry and starchy, and are

smaller than the sweet potatoes (yams) we usually eat in the US. They are used

almost exclusively in ethnic cuisine, and are grown in, and imported from, the

Carribean. But they are NOT the type of yam that is used in herbal medicine to

regulate hormones, even so.

Commercially, wild yam (a vine) is used to make progesterone, and cortisone

precursors, for the pharmaceutical industry. This is a true synthesis process

and is not related to wild yam's ability as an HERB to affect the hormones.

Well, I suppose I can't really say it's not " related, " it probably is - but the

wild-yam derived progesterone is molecuarly identical to human progesterone,

whereas wild yam creams themselves do not contain any progesterone at all, but

rather active herbal ingredients that have an affect on our own hormone systems.

Did this make is clearer or make it worse, LOL?

Christie

[Guest guest]

this is good!

just, i have to read it a few more times...

-katja

>Did this make is clearer or make it worse, LOL?

>

>Christie

[Guest guest]

Welcome Amy. Wow, you are homeschooling 16 children??? I salute you!!

RE: progesterone

You can use progesterone cream...

And I am new- just joined yesterday. I am rereading Nourishing Traditions.

We have eaten organically for quite a while but I recently read " Patient

Heal Thyself " by Jordan Rubin and he recommends NT so I thought I would

reread it and I am glad I did. I will be changing quite a few of the things

we eat, making more homemade breakfast foods and such...

Looking forward to gleaning much wisdom!!

Amy, wife to Steve, home schooling Mom to 16 wonderful blessings from God(2

homegrown, 14 adopted)and praying for more!!

[Guest guest]

Katja -

yams will do this for you.

===> are yams the same as sweet potato? We can't buy yams in Australia but we

can buy sweet potatoes. And you mean eating them don't you, not that wild yam

cream?

also, stay away from chicken and soy (well, you're already away from soy!) as

they have high estrogen/estrogen-producing/estrogen-like content.

===> even free range/organic chicken? Wow I didn't know that. I thought it was

only hormone fed battery chickens.

when a friend of mine was pregnant with her third and was sick of being

sick all the time, (her body was overproducing estrogen (she was a soy

freak)), we fed her a yam a day. finally, she was able to have a normal

life during pregnancy!!

===> interesting! wonder if sweet potatoes will have the same effect. I have a

whole lot that need eating up too. But this is what I'm interested in - foods

that can reduce estrogen (sauerkraut?) and stimulate progesterone.

ymmv,

===> sorry what does " ymmv " stand for? :-|

and i'll hit the books tonight about it, but give it a shot!

Thanks Katja, you're a gem!!!

Filippa

[Guest guest]

>Your body is producing progesterone normally but for some reason you

>aren't able to use that progesterone.

good point. i wasn't very clear about this, but the thing for my friend

wasn't that she had no progesterone, but that she had SO. MUCH. estrogen

that there was this great and mighty imbalance...-katja

===> I think that's my problem too even though I haven't been eating soy for a

long time. This time my Dr didn't get my estrogen tested, I don't know why but

I'm assuming it's the same ratio imbalance as I was getting last year except

worse.

Filippa

[Guest guest]

Christie -

This one is easy! You can get an ovulation test kit at any pharmacy, women use

them to check their fertility for both contraception and conception timing.

Piece of cake.

===> I was charting but never did an ov test. You can't get pg unless you

ovulate right? so I must have been ovulating. but I guess your point is

whether I'm ovulating post-miscarriage?

I don't buy everything she says, but have you read any of Dr. Vliet's books?

===> No I haven't Christie but I'll check into it. What aspects don't you buy

into? (if it's easy to summarise, don't worry if it's too much to go into here).

Thanks,

Filippa

[Guest guest]

So while your friend may have benefited in some way from eating yams, it had

nothing to do with the reputation of yams for helping with PMS and other hormone

problems. They are two totally different plants. (Christie)

===> was it the starch maybe? I think some women say their morning sickness got

better when they ate carbs or starch.

Filippa

[Guest guest]

At 05:12 PM 3/10/2004, you wrote:

>Katja -

>

>yams will do this for you.

>

>===> are yams the same as sweet potato? We can't buy yams in Australia

>but we can buy sweet potatoes. And you mean eating them don't you, not

>that wild yam cream?

see christie's yam exposition...it explains it all!

>also, stay away from chicken and soy (well, you're already away from soy!)

>as they have high estrogen/estrogen-producing/estrogen-like content.

>

>===> even free range/organic chicken? Wow I didn't know that. I thought

>it was only hormone fed battery chickens.

i'm not sure on this - this information comes from before my organic days...

>when a friend of mine was pregnant with her third and was sick of being

>sick all the time, (her body was overproducing estrogen (she was a soy

>freak)), we fed her a yam a day. finally, she was able to have a normal

>life during pregnancy!!

>

>===> interesting! wonder if sweet potatoes will have the same effect. I

>have a whole lot that need eating up too. But this is what I'm interested

>in - foods that can reduce estrogen (sauerkraut?) and stimulate progesterone.

well, heck. if you *have* the sweetpotatoes anyway, might as well eat'em!

take note of whether it works, who knows!

>ymmv,

>

>===> sorry what does " ymmv " stand for? :-|

your mileage may vary.

>and i'll hit the books tonight about it, but give it a shot!

>

>Thanks Katja, you're a gem!!!

and christie, for her vast knowledge of tubers!

>Filippa

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't have any evidence one way or another,

but it totally changes me for the better. I kind of think

all the hormones are linked ... when you get healthier,

they all get more balanced.

===> I know. The times I have exercised I have felt so much better. but you

know, it's the weirdest thing to be unmotivated about exercise - it's darn near

impossible to counteract! As I said, I do walk and swim though.

The nice thing about weights is that they take very little

TIME. I do arm weights in a simple routine, and the

" one legged squats " when I'm in my bedroom changing

clothes or whatever (which take oh, 40 seconds). And

a little yoga when I think of it to stay stretchy.

===> maybe I should get some weights I can use at home. I'll have to try the

one-legged squat. I can imagine doing stuff while I'm at home. It's the going

to the gym part that I can't get myself to do.

Sunlight is great too, but you should be getting that,if you are walking!

===> yep. no problems here in sunny Australia and I've now confirmed that with

a blood test for vit D.

Thanks Heidi,

Filippa

[Guest guest]

>>Then some orange-fleshed ones came on the market, and they were christened

" yams, " even though they are not yams.<<

===> that's what we've got but we call them sweet potatoes.

Commercially, wild yam (a vine) is used to make progesterone, and cortisone

precursors, for the pharmaceutical industry. This is a true synthesis process

and is not related to wild yam's ability as an HERB to affect the hormones.

Well, I suppose I can't really say it's not " related, " it probably is - but the

wild-yam derived progesterone is molecuarly identical to human progesterone,

whereas wild yam creams themselves do not contain any progesterone at all, but

rather active herbal ingredients that have an affect on our own hormone systems.

Did this make is clearer or make it worse, LOL? (Christie)

===> Clearer by far!! So in your opinion, what's better? The natural wild yam

creams that work as a herb or the synthesised progesterone that is molecularly

identical to human progesterone?

- Filippa

[Guest guest]

see christie's yam exposition...it explains it all!

==> yes sorry I was a bit behind!

>even free range/organic chicken? Wow I didn't know that. I thought

>it was only hormone fed battery chickens.

i'm not sure on this - this information comes from before my organic days...

===> hmmm, I need to check into this one. I know Sally Fallon thinks it's an

inferior protein to fish and red meat.

well, heck. if you *have* the sweetpotatoes anyway, might as well eat'em!

take note of whether it works, who knows!

==> yup, I'm on the lookout for sweet potato recipes!

>sorry what does " ymmv " stand for? :-|

your mileage may vary.

===> Thank you, I never would have worked that one out!! Actually I don't even

understand the expression itself. Means " everyone's different? "

and christie, for her vast knowledge of tubers!

==> absolutely!

Filippa

[Guest guest]

>> You can't get pg unless you ovulate right? so I must have been ovulating.

but I guess your point is whether I'm ovulating post-miscarriage? <<

Right, exactly!

>> No I haven't Christie but I'll check into it. What aspects don't you buy

into? (if it's easy to summarise, don't worry if it's too much to go into here).

<<

In a nutshell, I think Dr. Vliet goes directly to hormone administration,

without trying other ways to modulate the hormones first. She TALKS ABOUT those

other ways, and recommends them to her patients along with hormone therapy, but

doesn't try them first. For instance, I've seen a lot of women with PCOS on the

Atkins lists, who have their symptoms go away after starting low carb. I'd

personally rather try a diet change before I try taking exogenous hormones!

I also don't fully agree with her dietary counseling (esp in her earlier books -

she gets closer and closer over time to what I DO believe).

But I agree with her more than I disagree with her, and I think her books are

extremely helpful to women with hormone problems, or even just questions.

Christie

[Guest guest]

>> So in your opinion, what's better? The natural wild yam creams that work as

a herb or the synthesised progesterone that is molecularly identical to human

progesterone? <<

Neither! I believe in getting your hormones checked, all of them, not just

progesterone, and coming up with a whole strategy, which might or might not

involve either, both, or neither of these substances. I believe in

individualization.

Christie