Further questions about breeding with a bull

[Guest guest]

Thanks for all the responses so far.

We have 16' horse panels for our pen. Is that sturdy enough?

We would only be renting the Jersey bull, not owning it, for about a

month.

We had hoped to breed to a Jersey in hopes of getting a heifer. What

is milk production like in a heifer if crossed bred with a non-dairy

bull?

Thanks again.

Dona

[Guest guest]

Are the panels made of pipe or wire?

Further questions about breeding with a bull

Thanks for all the responses so far.

We have 16' horse panels for our pen. Is that sturdy enough?

We would only be renting the Jersey bull, not owning it, for about a

month.

We had hoped to breed to a Jersey in hopes of getting a heifer. What

is milk production like in a heifer if crossed bred with a non-dairy

bull?

Thanks again.

Dona

------------------------------------

PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

Archive search: http://onibasu.com

[Guest guest]

Are the panels made of pipe or wire?

Further questions about breeding with a bull

Thanks for all the responses so far.

We have 16' horse panels for our pen. Is that sturdy enough?

We would only be renting the Jersey bull, not owning it, for about a

month.

We had hoped to breed to a Jersey in hopes of getting a heifer. What

is milk production like in a heifer if crossed bred with a non-dairy

bull?

Thanks again.

Dona

------------------------------------

PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

Archive search: http://onibasu.com

[Guest guest]

Are the panels made of pipe or wire?

Further questions about breeding with a bull

Thanks for all the responses so far.

We have 16' horse panels for our pen. Is that sturdy enough?

We would only be renting the Jersey bull, not owning it, for about a

month.

We had hoped to breed to a Jersey in hopes of getting a heifer. What

is milk production like in a heifer if crossed bred with a non-dairy

bull?

Thanks again.

Dona

------------------------------------

PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

Archive search: http://onibasu.com

[Guest guest]

I sold a really nice little white face X Holstein this year and as a first freshener she was milking about 5 gallons a day. I think that is good for a first freshening Jersey. I sold her as a family cow and so a beef cross might be just fine. You would have very nice beef calves to raise if she had a bull. Much better than a Jersey bull would be.

Chris

We had hoped to breed to a Jersey in hopes of getting a heifer. What is milk production like in a heifer if crossed bred with a non-dairy bull?Thanks again.Dona

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[Guest guest]

A Dexter/Jersey cross heifer is very nice in a lot of ways.

Dexters usually throw very small calves, so a heifer will be more likely to have an easy birth if bred by a Dexter bull.

Dexters are famous for their gentleness and can impart that quality to the calf.

Dexters normally produce between 1.5 and 3 gallons per day. A Dexter/Jersey cross will likely produce more than a Dexter, but less than a Jersey.

The Dexter/Jersey cross calf will make very good beef.

Dexter milk has smaller molecules and could be easier to digest. The cross bred calf would benefit from the Dexter genetics.

Most Dexter stock is raised by breeders, who may have a surplus of bulls. You can probably find a bull near you for a very affordable price. Use him, then put him in the freezer. Tasty!

Genebo

Paradise Farm

[Guest guest]

A Dexter/Jersey cross heifer is very nice in a lot of ways.

Dexters usually throw very small calves, so a heifer will be more likely to have an easy birth if bred by a Dexter bull.

Dexters are famous for their gentleness and can impart that quality to the calf.

Dexters normally produce between 1.5 and 3 gallons per day. A Dexter/Jersey cross will likely produce more than a Dexter, but less than a Jersey.

The Dexter/Jersey cross calf will make very good beef.

Dexter milk has smaller molecules and could be easier to digest. The cross bred calf would benefit from the Dexter genetics.

Most Dexter stock is raised by breeders, who may have a surplus of bulls. You can probably find a bull near you for a very affordable price. Use him, then put him in the freezer. Tasty!

Genebo

Paradise Farm

[Guest guest]

"I've seen some really nice Jersey/Holstein crosses. Wouldn't mind having one. I'm only concerned about calving for the Jersey as a Holstein is a larger animal and our cow supposedly has a bit of hip displasia. Is that a valid concern? She has calved twice without a problem. That was when she was in a dairy herd.

Thanks for your help.

Dona"

The rule is generally to breed the large breed cow to a smaller breed bull. Both parents contribute to the size of the calf.

Using a larger breed bull means that the calf will be larger than normal for the cow. This can be trouble.

Using a smaller breed bull means that the calf will be smaller than normal for the cow. This is good.

So breeding a Holstein bull to a Jersey cow is risky, whereas breeding a Jersey bull to a Holstein cow should make for an easy birth. You get the same calf either way.

Genebo

Paradise Farm

[Guest guest]

"I've seen some really nice Jersey/Holstein crosses. Wouldn't mind having one. I'm only concerned about calving for the Jersey as a Holstein is a larger animal and our cow supposedly has a bit of hip displasia. Is that a valid concern? She has calved twice without a problem. That was when she was in a dairy herd.

Thanks for your help.

Dona"

The rule is generally to breed the large breed cow to a smaller breed bull. Both parents contribute to the size of the calf.

Using a larger breed bull means that the calf will be larger than normal for the cow. This can be trouble.

Using a smaller breed bull means that the calf will be smaller than normal for the cow. This is good.

So breeding a Holstein bull to a Jersey cow is risky, whereas breeding a Jersey bull to a Holstein cow should make for an easy birth. You get the same calf either way.

Genebo

Paradise Farm

[Guest guest]

Let me clarify one thing: I don't use AI. I have a bull that I keep as a herd bull, 24/7. I was speaking of the beef farmers who live around here. I've helped them give the shots.

Genebo

Paradise Farm

Re: Re: Further questions about breeding with a bull

Dona,

Around here, they don't wait for the cow to come in heat. They use Lutelase to bring her into heat. The vet stops by and leaves the required number of shots with the farmer. The farmer talks to the AI guy and they arrange a schedule. On the prescribed day, the farmer gives the shots to all the cows he intends to breed. Then the AI guy shows up and does his thing.

Remember that the semen may have to be shipped in, unless you choose from those your AI guy has on hand. So be sure to contact the AI guy well ahead of time to arrange for the semen.

Genebo

Paradise Farm

[Guest guest]

Let me clarify one thing: I don't use AI. I have a bull that I keep as a herd bull, 24/7. I was speaking of the beef farmers who live around here. I've helped them give the shots.

Genebo

Paradise Farm

Re: Re: Further questions about breeding with a bull

Dona,

Around here, they don't wait for the cow to come in heat. They use Lutelase to bring her into heat. The vet stops by and leaves the required number of shots with the farmer. The farmer talks to the AI guy and they arrange a schedule. On the prescribed day, the farmer gives the shots to all the cows he intends to breed. Then the AI guy shows up and does his thing.

Remember that the semen may have to be shipped in, unless you choose from those your AI guy has on hand. So be sure to contact the AI guy well ahead of time to arrange for the semen.

Genebo

Paradise Farm

[Guest guest]

Let me clarify one thing: I don't use AI. I have a bull that I keep as a herd bull, 24/7. I was speaking of the beef farmers who live around here. I've helped them give the shots.

Genebo

Paradise Farm

Re: Re: Further questions about breeding with a bull

Dona,

Around here, they don't wait for the cow to come in heat. They use Lutelase to bring her into heat. The vet stops by and leaves the required number of shots with the farmer. The farmer talks to the AI guy and they arrange a schedule. On the prescribed day, the farmer gives the shots to all the cows he intends to breed. Then the AI guy shows up and does his thing.

Remember that the semen may have to be shipped in, unless you choose from those your AI guy has on hand. So be sure to contact the AI guy well ahead of time to arrange for the semen.

Genebo

Paradise Farm

[Guest guest]

You can try to program breed her. If you talk to the AI guy I am sure he will be able to help you with this. It is usually easier to AI after the first breeding. I have gone both ways and a bull is much more reliable and always gets the job done. This year the bull must have used a step ladder but he still got the job done. I had to have the AI guy out three times and still didn't get her bred. I like using a bull but I raise my bulls myself so it is easier for me. I have seven bulls going right now.

Chris

Thanks. We were considering AI first and still might. However, we can't tell when cow is in heat and don't know when to tell the AI guy to come. As I have studied there is about a 12 hour window for AI to be successful. That sounds like a shot in the dark, one that would have to be repeated multiple times in order for success, given our lack of ability to detect heat. Any further encouragement along these lines would be helpful.

Sincerely,

Dona

Bulls are dangerous, even young ones. We have used jumper bulls to clean up after our AI efforts, but I still do not like them. Please consider AI first. Most companies can have AI techs come out to the farm and breed the cow for you. If you are in an area without an AI tech, most semen companies will offer free classes so you can learn to do it yourself. They are glad to do it so that they can sell you their semen and supplies. Check with your local extension agent. Please take farm hazards seriously. Just this last month Sue and I had a friend die when he fell down a silo. He was one of our first mentors. Charlie

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[Guest guest]

You can try to program breed her. If you talk to the AI guy I am sure he will be able to help you with this. It is usually easier to AI after the first breeding. I have gone both ways and a bull is much more reliable and always gets the job done. This year the bull must have used a step ladder but he still got the job done. I had to have the AI guy out three times and still didn't get her bred. I like using a bull but I raise my bulls myself so it is easier for me. I have seven bulls going right now.

Chris

Thanks. We were considering AI first and still might. However, we can't tell when cow is in heat and don't know when to tell the AI guy to come. As I have studied there is about a 12 hour window for AI to be successful. That sounds like a shot in the dark, one that would have to be repeated multiple times in order for success, given our lack of ability to detect heat. Any further encouragement along these lines would be helpful.

Sincerely,

Dona

Bulls are dangerous, even young ones. We have used jumper bulls to clean up after our AI efforts, but I still do not like them. Please consider AI first. Most companies can have AI techs come out to the farm and breed the cow for you. If you are in an area without an AI tech, most semen companies will offer free classes so you can learn to do it yourself. They are glad to do it so that they can sell you their semen and supplies. Check with your local extension agent. Please take farm hazards seriously. Just this last month Sue and I had a friend die when he fell down a silo. He was one of our first mentors. Charlie

Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started.

____________________________________________________________

Fast Computer Training. Click here.

[Guest guest]

You can try to program breed her. If you talk to the AI guy I am sure he will be able to help you with this. It is usually easier to AI after the first breeding. I have gone both ways and a bull is much more reliable and always gets the job done. This year the bull must have used a step ladder but he still got the job done. I had to have the AI guy out three times and still didn't get her bred. I like using a bull but I raise my bulls myself so it is easier for me. I have seven bulls going right now.

Chris

Thanks. We were considering AI first and still might. However, we can't tell when cow is in heat and don't know when to tell the AI guy to come. As I have studied there is about a 12 hour window for AI to be successful. That sounds like a shot in the dark, one that would have to be repeated multiple times in order for success, given our lack of ability to detect heat. Any further encouragement along these lines would be helpful.

Sincerely,

Dona

Bulls are dangerous, even young ones. We have used jumper bulls to clean up after our AI efforts, but I still do not like them. Please consider AI first. Most companies can have AI techs come out to the farm and breed the cow for you. If you are in an area without an AI tech, most semen companies will offer free classes so you can learn to do it yourself. They are glad to do it so that they can sell you their semen and supplies. Check with your local extension agent. Please take farm hazards seriously. Just this last month Sue and I had a friend die when he fell down a silo. He was one of our first mentors. Charlie

Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started.

____________________________________________________________

Fast Computer Training. Click here.

[Guest guest]

You can use what is called a Fixed -time AI at Day 0 you give a 2cc shot of GNRH (Cystorelin) and implant a CIDR. At day 7 you remove the CIDR and give a 5cc shot of PG (Lutalyse). 60-66 hours later you breed AI and give 2cc more of Cystorelin this will take out the whole heat detection problem. Your vet can get and help you with the Meds and CIDR.

Subject: Re: Re: Further questions about breeding with a bullTo: RawDairy Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 2:39 PM

Thanks. We were considering AI first and still might. However, we can't tell when cow is in heat and don't know when to tell the AI guy to come. As I have studied there is about a 12 hour window for AI to be successful. That sounds like a shot in the dark, one that would have to be repeated multiple times in order for success, given our lack of ability to detect heat. Any further encouragement along these lines would be helpful.

Sincerely,

Dona

Bulls are dangerous, even young ones. We have used jumper bulls to clean up after our AI efforts, but I still do not like them. Please consider AI first. Most companies can have AI techs come out to the farm and breed the cow for you. If you are in an area without an AI tech, most semen companies will offer free classes so you can learn to do it yourself. They are glad to do it so that they can sell you their semen and supplies. Check with your local extension agent. Please take farm hazards seriously. Just this last month Sue and I had a friend die when he fell down a silo. He was one of our first mentors. Charlie

Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started.

[Guest guest]

You can use what is called a Fixed -time AI at Day 0 you give a 2cc shot of GNRH (Cystorelin) and implant a CIDR. At day 7 you remove the CIDR and give a 5cc shot of PG (Lutalyse). 60-66 hours later you breed AI and give 2cc more of Cystorelin this will take out the whole heat detection problem. Your vet can get and help you with the Meds and CIDR.

Subject: Re: Re: Further questions about breeding with a bullTo: RawDairy Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 2:39 PM

Thanks. We were considering AI first and still might. However, we can't tell when cow is in heat and don't know when to tell the AI guy to come. As I have studied there is about a 12 hour window for AI to be successful. That sounds like a shot in the dark, one that would have to be repeated multiple times in order for success, given our lack of ability to detect heat. Any further encouragement along these lines would be helpful.

Sincerely,

Dona

Bulls are dangerous, even young ones. We have used jumper bulls to clean up after our AI efforts, but I still do not like them. Please consider AI first. Most companies can have AI techs come out to the farm and breed the cow for you. If you are in an area without an AI tech, most semen companies will offer free classes so you can learn to do it yourself. They are glad to do it so that they can sell you their semen and supplies. Check with your local extension agent. Please take farm hazards seriously. Just this last month Sue and I had a friend die when he fell down a silo. He was one of our first mentors. Charlie

Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started.

[Guest guest]

You can use what is called a Fixed -time AI at Day 0 you give a 2cc shot of GNRH (Cystorelin) and implant a CIDR. At day 7 you remove the CIDR and give a 5cc shot of PG (Lutalyse). 60-66 hours later you breed AI and give 2cc more of Cystorelin this will take out the whole heat detection problem. Your vet can get and help you with the Meds and CIDR.

Subject: Re: Re: Further questions about breeding with a bullTo: RawDairy Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 2:39 PM

Thanks. We were considering AI first and still might. However, we can't tell when cow is in heat and don't know when to tell the AI guy to come. As I have studied there is about a 12 hour window for AI to be successful. That sounds like a shot in the dark, one that would have to be repeated multiple times in order for success, given our lack of ability to detect heat. Any further encouragement along these lines would be helpful.

Sincerely,

Dona

Bulls are dangerous, even young ones. We have used jumper bulls to clean up after our AI efforts, but I still do not like them. Please consider AI first. Most companies can have AI techs come out to the farm and breed the cow for you. If you are in an area without an AI tech, most semen companies will offer free classes so you can learn to do it yourself. They are glad to do it so that they can sell you their semen and supplies. Check with your local extension agent. Please take farm hazards seriously. Just this last month Sue and I had a friend die when he fell down a silo. He was one of our first mentors. Charlie

Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started.

[Guest guest]

The problem with only useing Lutalyse is if the cow is not in the right stage of the cycle it wont work. You should have your vet Palpate the cow for a CL if one is not present no amount of Lute will work. A timed Synch program would work best. A random shot of Lute will generaly only bring in to heat about 30% of the cows.

Subject: Re: Re: Further questions about breeding with a bullTo: RawDairy Date: Friday, July 11, 2008, 2:39 AM

Dona,

Around here, they don't wait for the cow to come in heat. They use Lutelase to bring her into heat. The vet stops by and leaves the required number of shots with the farmer. The farmer talks to the AI guy and they arrange a schedule. On the prescribed day, the farmer gives the shots to all the cows he intends to breed. Then the AI guy shows up and does his thing.

Remember that the semen may have to be shipped in, unless you choose from those your AI guy has on hand. So be sure to contact the AI guy well ahead of time to arrange for the semen.

Genebo

Paradise Farm

[Guest guest]

The problem with only useing Lutalyse is if the cow is not in the right stage of the cycle it wont work. You should have your vet Palpate the cow for a CL if one is not present no amount of Lute will work. A timed Synch program would work best. A random shot of Lute will generaly only bring in to heat about 30% of the cows.

Subject: Re: Re: Further questions about breeding with a bullTo: RawDairy Date: Friday, July 11, 2008, 2:39 AM

Dona,

Around here, they don't wait for the cow to come in heat. They use Lutelase to bring her into heat. The vet stops by and leaves the required number of shots with the farmer. The farmer talks to the AI guy and they arrange a schedule. On the prescribed day, the farmer gives the shots to all the cows he intends to breed. Then the AI guy shows up and does his thing.

Remember that the semen may have to be shipped in, unless you choose from those your AI guy has on hand. So be sure to contact the AI guy well ahead of time to arrange for the semen.

Genebo

Paradise Farm

[Guest guest]

The problem with only useing Lutalyse is if the cow is not in the right stage of the cycle it wont work. You should have your vet Palpate the cow for a CL if one is not present no amount of Lute will work. A timed Synch program would work best. A random shot of Lute will generaly only bring in to heat about 30% of the cows.

Subject: Re: Re: Further questions about breeding with a bullTo: RawDairy Date: Friday, July 11, 2008, 2:39 AM

Dona,

Around here, they don't wait for the cow to come in heat. They use Lutelase to bring her into heat. The vet stops by and leaves the required number of shots with the farmer. The farmer talks to the AI guy and they arrange a schedule. On the prescribed day, the farmer gives the shots to all the cows he intends to breed. Then the AI guy shows up and does his thing.

Remember that the semen may have to be shipped in, unless you choose from those your AI guy has on hand. So be sure to contact the AI guy well ahead of time to arrange for the semen.

Genebo

Paradise Farm

[Guest guest]

Please avoid Lutalyse, and all heat timing hormones. First of all forcing a cow to go into heat is counter to our WAPF philosophy, and is against the organic rules.

Sue and I used it in our early and ignorant years. Sue had a syringe in her pocket. About 1.5 cc oozed out and soaked through the pocket fabric to her skin. She had sore breasts for a minimum of 3 weeks and more like 2 months. She also said that she was glad this did not happen prior to her hysterectomy.

To me this is a seat belt issue. Better safe than sorry.

I personally think that the day will come that heat timing hormones will be found to be as bad or worse than BGH.

If I had to have a bull as a newbie, I would go with a young angus, and ship it the moment it began to show any signs of aggression.

CharlieUse video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started.

[Guest guest]

Please avoid Lutalyse, and all heat timing hormones. First of all forcing a cow to go into heat is counter to our WAPF philosophy, and is against the organic rules.

Sue and I used it in our early and ignorant years. Sue had a syringe in her pocket. About 1.5 cc oozed out and soaked through the pocket fabric to her skin. She had sore breasts for a minimum of 3 weeks and more like 2 months. She also said that she was glad this did not happen prior to her hysterectomy.

To me this is a seat belt issue. Better safe than sorry.

I personally think that the day will come that heat timing hormones will be found to be as bad or worse than BGH.

If I had to have a bull as a newbie, I would go with a young angus, and ship it the moment it began to show any signs of aggression.

CharlieUse video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started.

[Guest guest]

Please avoid Lutalyse, and all heat timing hormones. First of all forcing a cow to go into heat is counter to our WAPF philosophy, and is against the organic rules.

Sue and I used it in our early and ignorant years. Sue had a syringe in her pocket. About 1.5 cc oozed out and soaked through the pocket fabric to her skin. She had sore breasts for a minimum of 3 weeks and more like 2 months. She also said that she was glad this did not happen prior to her hysterectomy.

To me this is a seat belt issue. Better safe than sorry.

I personally think that the day will come that heat timing hormones will be found to be as bad or worse than BGH.

If I had to have a bull as a newbie, I would go with a young angus, and ship it the moment it began to show any signs of aggression.

CharlieUse video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started.

[Guest guest]

Don't ship it, eat it. Revenge grills well.

robie(insert smile)

--- Re: Further questions about breeding with a bullDate: Sat, July 12, 2008 1:48 amTo: <rawdairy >,

Please avoid Lutalyse, and all heat timing hormones. First of all forcing a cow to go into heat is counter to our WAPF philosophy, and is against the organic rules. Sue and I used it in our early and ignorant years. Sue had a syringe in her pocket. About 1.5 cc oozed out and soaked through the pocket fabric to her skin. She had sore breasts for a minimum of 3 weeks and more like 2 months. She also said that she was glad this did not happen prior to her hysterectomy. To me this is a seat belt issue. Better safe than sorry. I personally think that the day will come that heat timing hormones will be found to be as bad or worse than BGH. If I had to have a bull as a newbie, I would go with a young angus, and ship it the moment it began to show any signs of aggression. Charlie

Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started.