Re: Self-intro of Leah - Humboldt County, CA

[Guest guest]

Now this is just getting stupid. If a poster emails you privately. Keep it that way. Why involve the whole list?

Although I was going to give it one more go. I give up. Some how you’ve migrated this to being about you rather then being about the price of the milk. So at this point I step off to the next thread. As I can’t feed one more ego today. I have 20 out in the barn waiting for me to do just that.

jo

--

www.goodnessgraciousacres.com

Become a fan on FB

Delilah’s Dairy Goat Milk Soap

http://tinyurl.com/yzbq5j8

Reply-To: " RawDairy " <RawDairy >

Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:53:31 -0400

To: " RawDairy " <RawDairy >

Subject: Re: Self-intro of Leah - Humboldt County, CA

Once again, I have received a nasty email from the same member wondering why anyone should take the advice of someone whose business had failed, and that I failed because I didn't know when to quit.

First off, I didn't fail. My business became insolvent (yeah, like I was the only one affected by the economic downturn). Secondly, it wasn't because of the factors that I mentioned. It was because my OVERHEAD was TOO HIGH.

And for those of you who think tearing me down either in this group or in private emails is appropriate, GROW UP. Try using debating skills instead of insults worthy of a nine-year-old.

Joanne

www.joanneunleashed.com

[Guest guest]

Now this is just getting stupid. If a poster emails you privately. Keep it that way. Why involve the whole list?

Although I was going to give it one more go. I give up. Some how you’ve migrated this to being about you rather then being about the price of the milk. So at this point I step off to the next thread. As I can’t feed one more ego today. I have 20 out in the barn waiting for me to do just that.

jo

--

www.goodnessgraciousacres.com

Become a fan on FB

Delilah’s Dairy Goat Milk Soap

http://tinyurl.com/yzbq5j8

Reply-To: " RawDairy " <RawDairy >

Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:53:31 -0400

To: " RawDairy " <RawDairy >

Subject: Re: Self-intro of Leah - Humboldt County, CA

Once again, I have received a nasty email from the same member wondering why anyone should take the advice of someone whose business had failed, and that I failed because I didn't know when to quit.

First off, I didn't fail. My business became insolvent (yeah, like I was the only one affected by the economic downturn). Secondly, it wasn't because of the factors that I mentioned. It was because my OVERHEAD was TOO HIGH.

And for those of you who think tearing me down either in this group or in private emails is appropriate, GROW UP. Try using debating skills instead of insults worthy of a nine-year-old.

Joanne

www.joanneunleashed.com

[Guest guest]

Now this is just getting stupid. If a poster emails you privately. Keep it that way. Why involve the whole list?

Although I was going to give it one more go. I give up. Some how you’ve migrated this to being about you rather then being about the price of the milk. So at this point I step off to the next thread. As I can’t feed one more ego today. I have 20 out in the barn waiting for me to do just that.

jo

--

www.goodnessgraciousacres.com

Become a fan on FB

Delilah’s Dairy Goat Milk Soap

http://tinyurl.com/yzbq5j8

Reply-To: " RawDairy " <RawDairy >

Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:53:31 -0400

To: " RawDairy " <RawDairy >

Subject: Re: Self-intro of Leah - Humboldt County, CA

Once again, I have received a nasty email from the same member wondering why anyone should take the advice of someone whose business had failed, and that I failed because I didn't know when to quit.

First off, I didn't fail. My business became insolvent (yeah, like I was the only one affected by the economic downturn). Secondly, it wasn't because of the factors that I mentioned. It was because my OVERHEAD was TOO HIGH.

And for those of you who think tearing me down either in this group or in private emails is appropriate, GROW UP. Try using debating skills instead of insults worthy of a nine-year-old.

Joanne

www.joanneunleashed.com

[Guest guest]

Jan, because I believe that off-list emails should be private, I did not mention

your name or post either of your two emails. While I find your behavior petty, I

would not publicly disclose what was privately communicated.

Still, rather than debate with me, you have chosen this route. Your two emails

to me and this behavior speaks volumes about your character and integrity. And I

stand by my last sentence to you in my email.

Joanne

www.joanneunleashed.com

[Guest guest]

Jan, because I believe that off-list emails should be private, I did not mention

your name or post either of your two emails. While I find your behavior petty, I

would not publicly disclose what was privately communicated.

Still, rather than debate with me, you have chosen this route. Your two emails

to me and this behavior speaks volumes about your character and integrity. And I

stand by my last sentence to you in my email.

Joanne

www.joanneunleashed.com

[Guest guest]

Jan, because I believe that off-list emails should be private, I did not mention

your name or post either of your two emails. While I find your behavior petty, I

would not publicly disclose what was privately communicated.

Still, rather than debate with me, you have chosen this route. Your two emails

to me and this behavior speaks volumes about your character and integrity. And I

stand by my last sentence to you in my email.

Joanne

www.joanneunleashed.com

[Guest guest]

I've moved onJan Haybert

Jan, because I believe that off-list emails should be private, I did not mention your name or post either of your two emails. While I find your behavior petty, I would not publicly disclose what was privately communicated.

Still, rather than debate with me, you have chosen this route. Your two emails to me and this behavior speaks volumes about your character and integrity. And I stand by my last sentence to you in my email.

Joanne

www.joanneunleashed.com

[Guest guest]

Truly an expert speaking here... " Do you have any idea how much overhead a

supermarket has? "

Do you have any idea how much overhead a FARM has?(obviously NOT) Land,

cattle, machinery, buildings, taxes, sometimes employees, upkeep and repair on

buildings and machinery.Plus supports others like vet, feed dealers,farm stores

(fencing, tools, parts,, etc.)milk equipment dealers, truck dealers, builders,

electricians, concrete, welder/ repair, steel, hoof trimmers,AI techs, milk

testers, labs, milk truck drivers, processing plants and the host of employees

that go with them, etc., etc.. WOW, I'm starting to think that a farm plays a

VITAL role in the economy.

Most of those dollars you spend at a grocery store leave the community. The

money a farmer receives is spent in their local economy. I'll stick with the

farmers, especially the organic ones that aren't poisoning our environment.

You should try farming for a bit and then tell us how it is. LOL Hey, it's

like any other business. Never mind the fact that we are producing FOOD and

working with the environment that affects us all. Business is business after

all, right. Agri biz has tried to sell farmers on that one for decades, that's

why we have war poisons (herbicides, insecticides) permeating every part of our

environment, GMO's, confinement ag, meat, bone, blood, chicken crap, swill

waste, soy meal, etc... Cancer, sickness, disease, pollution, etc., etc. Do you

really think we should stay on this path. Hey, it produces cheap food and that's

all that matters, eh?

Grandpa always said everyone should be given 40 acres and a chance to farm.

That would bring reality back to most people REALLY quickly.

Cheyenne

>

> Don't judge? I'll judge all I want. I have a right to my own opinion.

>

> I have no problem with you charging whatever you want. That's capitalism. But

that doesn't mean I'm going to pay your price or that I'm going to respect you

for charging it.

>

> You've made it quite clear that you're considering charging more because other

people are paying a higher price from another supplier. " If the market can bear

it. " That's why you're going to raise the price to $15, not because of the price

of hay, which you added as an afterthought.

>

> Every business person seeks to generate more profit. And if you are the only

supplier and you charge a high price, that means you are taking advantage of the

fact that you're the only one I can get the milk from. That, in my mind, makes

you exploitive. I'm sure in your mind it makes you entrepreneurial.

Unfortunately, you have made your raw milk cost-prohibitive to a large sector of

society. It's a niche for the rich.

>

> Just like organic food is a niche for the rich. Organic farmers price their

products on recommended pricing from the organic food association, not on what

it actually costs to the grow the food. And so only the monied can buy organic.

Screw the little guy on minimum wage. Collusion is what I call it.

>

> You say the supermarket charges $4 a quart. Do you have any idea how much

overhead a supermarket has? A private individual charging as much as a

supermarket is not someone I would buy from in the name of " supporting the

farmer. " I would boycott your product and buy from the supermarket because their

price at least reflects cost of wholesale plus overhead. And I can purchase it

whenever I want, instead of driving out to a farm during specific hours. That's

my personal choice as a consumer, just as your price point is your personal

choice.

>

> Joanne

> www.joanneunleashed.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Truly an expert speaking here... " Do you have any idea how much overhead a

supermarket has? "

Do you have any idea how much overhead a FARM has?(obviously NOT) Land,

cattle, machinery, buildings, taxes, sometimes employees, upkeep and repair on

buildings and machinery.Plus supports others like vet, feed dealers,farm stores

(fencing, tools, parts,, etc.)milk equipment dealers, truck dealers, builders,

electricians, concrete, welder/ repair, steel, hoof trimmers,AI techs, milk

testers, labs, milk truck drivers, processing plants and the host of employees

that go with them, etc., etc.. WOW, I'm starting to think that a farm plays a

VITAL role in the economy.

Most of those dollars you spend at a grocery store leave the community. The

money a farmer receives is spent in their local economy. I'll stick with the

farmers, especially the organic ones that aren't poisoning our environment.

You should try farming for a bit and then tell us how it is. LOL Hey, it's

like any other business. Never mind the fact that we are producing FOOD and

working with the environment that affects us all. Business is business after

all, right. Agri biz has tried to sell farmers on that one for decades, that's

why we have war poisons (herbicides, insecticides) permeating every part of our

environment, GMO's, confinement ag, meat, bone, blood, chicken crap, swill

waste, soy meal, etc... Cancer, sickness, disease, pollution, etc., etc. Do you

really think we should stay on this path. Hey, it produces cheap food and that's

all that matters, eh?

Grandpa always said everyone should be given 40 acres and a chance to farm.

That would bring reality back to most people REALLY quickly.

Cheyenne

>

> Don't judge? I'll judge all I want. I have a right to my own opinion.

>

> I have no problem with you charging whatever you want. That's capitalism. But

that doesn't mean I'm going to pay your price or that I'm going to respect you

for charging it.

>

> You've made it quite clear that you're considering charging more because other

people are paying a higher price from another supplier. " If the market can bear

it. " That's why you're going to raise the price to $15, not because of the price

of hay, which you added as an afterthought.

>

> Every business person seeks to generate more profit. And if you are the only

supplier and you charge a high price, that means you are taking advantage of the

fact that you're the only one I can get the milk from. That, in my mind, makes

you exploitive. I'm sure in your mind it makes you entrepreneurial.

Unfortunately, you have made your raw milk cost-prohibitive to a large sector of

society. It's a niche for the rich.

>

> Just like organic food is a niche for the rich. Organic farmers price their

products on recommended pricing from the organic food association, not on what

it actually costs to the grow the food. And so only the monied can buy organic.

Screw the little guy on minimum wage. Collusion is what I call it.

>

> You say the supermarket charges $4 a quart. Do you have any idea how much

overhead a supermarket has? A private individual charging as much as a

supermarket is not someone I would buy from in the name of " supporting the

farmer. " I would boycott your product and buy from the supermarket because their

price at least reflects cost of wholesale plus overhead. And I can purchase it

whenever I want, instead of driving out to a farm during specific hours. That's

my personal choice as a consumer, just as your price point is your personal

choice.

>

> Joanne

> www.joanneunleashed.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Truly an expert speaking here... " Do you have any idea how much overhead a

supermarket has? "

Do you have any idea how much overhead a FARM has?(obviously NOT) Land,

cattle, machinery, buildings, taxes, sometimes employees, upkeep and repair on

buildings and machinery.Plus supports others like vet, feed dealers,farm stores

(fencing, tools, parts,, etc.)milk equipment dealers, truck dealers, builders,

electricians, concrete, welder/ repair, steel, hoof trimmers,AI techs, milk

testers, labs, milk truck drivers, processing plants and the host of employees

that go with them, etc., etc.. WOW, I'm starting to think that a farm plays a

VITAL role in the economy.

Most of those dollars you spend at a grocery store leave the community. The

money a farmer receives is spent in their local economy. I'll stick with the

farmers, especially the organic ones that aren't poisoning our environment.

You should try farming for a bit and then tell us how it is. LOL Hey, it's

like any other business. Never mind the fact that we are producing FOOD and

working with the environment that affects us all. Business is business after

all, right. Agri biz has tried to sell farmers on that one for decades, that's

why we have war poisons (herbicides, insecticides) permeating every part of our

environment, GMO's, confinement ag, meat, bone, blood, chicken crap, swill

waste, soy meal, etc... Cancer, sickness, disease, pollution, etc., etc. Do you

really think we should stay on this path. Hey, it produces cheap food and that's

all that matters, eh?

Grandpa always said everyone should be given 40 acres and a chance to farm.

That would bring reality back to most people REALLY quickly.

Cheyenne

>

> Don't judge? I'll judge all I want. I have a right to my own opinion.

>

> I have no problem with you charging whatever you want. That's capitalism. But

that doesn't mean I'm going to pay your price or that I'm going to respect you

for charging it.

>

> You've made it quite clear that you're considering charging more because other

people are paying a higher price from another supplier. " If the market can bear

it. " That's why you're going to raise the price to $15, not because of the price

of hay, which you added as an afterthought.

>

> Every business person seeks to generate more profit. And if you are the only

supplier and you charge a high price, that means you are taking advantage of the

fact that you're the only one I can get the milk from. That, in my mind, makes

you exploitive. I'm sure in your mind it makes you entrepreneurial.

Unfortunately, you have made your raw milk cost-prohibitive to a large sector of

society. It's a niche for the rich.

>

> Just like organic food is a niche for the rich. Organic farmers price their

products on recommended pricing from the organic food association, not on what

it actually costs to the grow the food. And so only the monied can buy organic.

Screw the little guy on minimum wage. Collusion is what I call it.

>

> You say the supermarket charges $4 a quart. Do you have any idea how much

overhead a supermarket has? A private individual charging as much as a

supermarket is not someone I would buy from in the name of " supporting the

farmer. " I would boycott your product and buy from the supermarket because their

price at least reflects cost of wholesale plus overhead. And I can purchase it

whenever I want, instead of driving out to a farm during specific hours. That's

my personal choice as a consumer, just as your price point is your personal

choice.

>

> Joanne

> www.joanneunleashed.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

i have had this argument before on here. Some people feel that the income of 5

goats should be enough to make a living. I set my milk price based off of what

comercial and organic milk is at the stores. Were a little over regular milk and

a little under organic. Thats where the market is and were right in the mix. We

milk 35 jerseys and sell milk at 6.00 per gallon. We pay our bills and live a

good life. We

continue to grow and expand as our market grows, as

it grows so does our savings. There is no sticker shock when consumers purchase

our milk, because we are right in line with what they see in the store. I know

that i could sell our milk for more but it would take it out of the reach of

some of our customers that need it most.

albert

Re: Self-intro of Leah - Humboldt County, CA

You're missing my point, but were I to debate you further, I'd be chastised to

" arguing. "

Joanne

www.joanneunleashed.com

On Jul 15, 2010, at 9:57 AM, rawDairy wrote:

> Do you have any idea how much overhead a FARM has?(obviously NOT) Land,

cattle, machinery, buildings, taxes, sometimes employees, upkeep and repair on

buildings and machinery.

[Guest guest]

i have had this argument before on here. Some people feel that the income of 5

goats should be enough to make a living. I set my milk price based off of what

comercial and organic milk is at the stores. Were a little over regular milk and

a little under organic. Thats where the market is and were right in the mix. We

milk 35 jerseys and sell milk at 6.00 per gallon. We pay our bills and live a

good life. We

continue to grow and expand as our market grows, as

it grows so does our savings. There is no sticker shock when consumers purchase

our milk, because we are right in line with what they see in the store. I know

that i could sell our milk for more but it would take it out of the reach of

some of our customers that need it most.

albert

Re: Self-intro of Leah - Humboldt County, CA

You're missing my point, but were I to debate you further, I'd be chastised to

" arguing. "

Joanne

www.joanneunleashed.com

On Jul 15, 2010, at 9:57 AM, rawDairy wrote:

> Do you have any idea how much overhead a FARM has?(obviously NOT) Land,

cattle, machinery, buildings, taxes, sometimes employees, upkeep and repair on

buildings and machinery.

[Guest guest]

i have had this argument before on here. Some people feel that the income of 5

goats should be enough to make a living. I set my milk price based off of what

comercial and organic milk is at the stores. Were a little over regular milk and

a little under organic. Thats where the market is and were right in the mix. We

milk 35 jerseys and sell milk at 6.00 per gallon. We pay our bills and live a

good life. We

continue to grow and expand as our market grows, as

it grows so does our savings. There is no sticker shock when consumers purchase

our milk, because we are right in line with what they see in the store. I know

that i could sell our milk for more but it would take it out of the reach of

some of our customers that need it most.

albert

Re: Self-intro of Leah - Humboldt County, CA

You're missing my point, but were I to debate you further, I'd be chastised to

" arguing. "

Joanne

www.joanneunleashed.com

On Jul 15, 2010, at 9:57 AM, rawDairy wrote:

> Do you have any idea how much overhead a FARM has?(obviously NOT) Land,

cattle, machinery, buildings, taxes, sometimes employees, upkeep and repair on

buildings and machinery.

[Guest guest]

I don't understand something. In most emails people what to put everything on the farm income. It is as if living in town they would not have to pay a phone bill or property taxes or any of the other expenses of living. If the farm can't pay for it all then it is loosing money. We have to live someplace and we still have to function as a family. We use the farm as a way of saving money on taxes by being able to deduct things we would just pay out for in another setting. To me that is a source of income too. My husband does not want to be a farmer so he works at what he does because he likes what he does and as a second income. I think you have to find a balance to life and if you are not finding it at what you are doing then you need to keep looking. Our balance is that I farm and he works. We have found this to be a good working situation for both of us. The farm I think pays well for us. We do live in a state that is good with farming and that people are willing to pay a far price for what they want. Meat and vegetable farmers do well here too. It is not all bad and I am sorry that it doesn't work everywhere. If farming is your passion then you should be where it works. I used to raise reg. cats and would sell kittens for 300.00. If you think that I could get 300.00 for a kitten where I now live you are crazy. I lived in a big city and had the reputation and customers to do this. Not so here and I would not be successful here doing that. There is a lot more to a going business than just wanting it to happen. You also don't have to be organic to have a concern for the environment or your animals.

Chris

Do you have any idea how much overhead a FARM has?(obviously NOT) Land, cattle, machinery, buildings, taxes, sometimes employees, upkeep and repair on buildings and machinery.Plus supports others like vet, feed dealers,farm stores (fencing, tools, parts,, etc.)milk equipment dealers, truck dealers, builders, electricians, concrete, welder/ repair, steel, hoof trimmers,AI techs, milk testers, labs, milk truck drivers, processing plants and the host of employees that go with them, etc., etc.. WOW, I'm starting to think that a farm plays a VITAL role in the economy.

[Guest guest]

You're missing my point, but were I to debate you further, I'd be chastised to "arguing."Joannewww.joanneunleashed.comOn Jul 15, 2010, at 9:57 AM, rawDairy wrote:Do you have any idea how much overhead a FARM has?(obviously NOT) Land, cattle, machinery, buildings, taxes, sometimes employees, upkeep and repair on buildings and machinery.

[Guest guest]

Whether I farm or not has nothing to do with how you determine your retail price. Joannewww.joanneunleashed.comOn Jul 15, 2010, at 9:57 AM, rawDairy wrote:You should try farming for a bit and then tell us how it is.

[Guest guest]

Whether I farm or not has nothing to do with how you determine your retail price. Joannewww.joanneunleashed.comOn Jul 15, 2010, at 9:57 AM, rawDairy wrote:You should try farming for a bit and then tell us how it is.

[Guest guest]

I didn't list the phone bill on my expense list, but why shouldn't I?.My farm

income IS my income. So, it HAS to pay all of those expenses. That is how a true

farm is supposed to work. Taxes are an issue in many areas when you own a couple

hundred acres to feed the herd.Joanne listed taxes for the grocer. Why don't

they count for a farmer? You need 40 acres and a chance to farm. You'll get it

in a hurry then.

Your idea may be skewed because you consider three cows subsidized by your

husband's income a farm. I'm talking about a farm that produces a sole income

from agriculture, or one that has that as a goal. I see small farms as our

future, but they have to be self sufficient, so will need more than three cows,

or be very diversified. We need everybody, and many of the small operators would

like to live solely off their farm income.But to say farms should be subsidized

by off farm income is not a solution. Or that farms should only be in a few

select areas where costs are low. We need farms everywhere! Trucking food around

isn't working too well. Why shouldn't the farmer (ALL farmers) be paid a decent

price? Yes, there are better ways (including profit) of doing things, as I have

proven on my own organic grass fed dairy farm. Agriculture is going to change

radically in the next few years as poison ag is eliminated.

We still need actual farms....tens/hundreds of thousands of them to produce

the food for 300+ million people, and they should be paid a fair price, which

means food prices need to rise. My goal isn't just a few people here and there

get quality food. EVERYONE deserves quality organic food. NO chemicals,

hormones, byproducts, concentration camp food production, etc. No garbage food

period!

As for organic,you don't have to be certified, but if you are using

poisons/hormones that pollute our environment and cause cancer and other

sickness, then there isn't much concern for the environment and the people being

poisoned by what you do.Organic principles may be a better way of saying it.

Agriculture is the backbone of this nation. There is NO job more important

than producing food. When this economy finally implodes and things really get

bad, what will be the most important thought/concern for everyone? FOOD!

Cheyenne

>

>

> I don't understand something. In most emails people what to put everything

on the farm income. It is as if living in town they would not have to pay a

phone bill or property taxes or any of the other expenses of living. If the

farm can't pay for it all then it is loosing money. We have to live someplace

and we still have to function as a family. We use the farm as a way of saving

money on taxes by being able to deduct things we would just pay out for in

another setting. To me that is a source of income too. My husband does not

want to be a farmer so he works at what he does because he likes what he does

and as a second income. I think you have to find a balance to life and if you

are not finding it at what you are doing then you need to keep looking. Our

balance is that I farm and he works. We have found this to be a good working

situation for both of us. The farm I think pays well for us. We do live in a

state that is good with farming and that people are willing to pay a far price

for what they want. Meat and vegetable farmers do well here too. It is not all

bad and I am sorry that it doesn't work everywhere. If farming is your passion

then you should be where it works. I used to raise reg. cats and would sell

kittens for 300.00. If you think that I could get 300.00 for a kitten where I

now live you are crazy. I lived in a big city and had the reputation and

customers to do this. Not so here and I would not be successful here doing

that. There is a lot more to a going business than just wanting it to happen.

You also don't have to be organic to have a concern for the environment or your

animals.

> Chris

>

>

>