Re: Re: What cows eat...

[Guest guest]

Hi,

This is just not true. If you look up "What do cows eat" on the Internet you will find

out what cows really eat. I know someone in the cow feeding business and they

sell chicken manure, cardboard etc. for cow feed. There is an article on cow feed

on the internet saying that the farmer would have to sell half of his animals if he did

not have chicken manure to feed his animals. I could look it up and send it on

to people if they cannot find the article. I should be able to find it again. Corn is just

too expensive to feed animals today. We lived next to a farmer and never saw any

animals. They were in the barn. One day they got loose and came over to our

farm to eat grass. The farmer said it is too expensive in the midwest to have

animals on grass. Corn produces a cash crop for a farmer. Alice

Re: What cows eat...

> Generally they are fed hay, corn sileage and grain. Is that > milk still worth drinking?Hi Dona:No.> Should I also be asking other questions about how the cows > are treated? I do usually ask about the antibiotic use. > What else do I need to be aware of?Antibiotics are not necessary when you have healthy cows. Healthy cowsproduce more nutritious milk than unhealthy cows.It is not what is in our food that kills us, but rather what isn't. Iseems everyone is so concerned with what is in our food or water butfew who are concerned about what isn't in our food. You might ask thefollowing:What breed of dairy cattle is producing the milk? Try to avoid anyhigh production

breed.Is any corn or corn sileage fed, and if so, is the corn hybrid corn?Try to avoid milk from cows fed corn of any kind. It's worse if thecorn is hybrid.Is any grass planted in the pastures and, if so, is the grass a hybridvariety? It is best if whatever grass grows in the pasture is therenaturally. It is worst if hybrid grass is planted in the pasture.What color is the natural color of the butter? The more yellow thebetter. The more white it is, the worse it is.What system of pasture management is employed? For your ownunderstanding of the needs of the cow and the grass, you mightpurchase and read Voisin's 'Grass Productivity' . It would be a bighelp if you decide to have your own cow.

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[Guest guest]

Hi,

This is just not true. If you look up "What do cows eat" on the Internet you will find

out what cows really eat. I know someone in the cow feeding business and they

sell chicken manure, cardboard etc. for cow feed. There is an article on cow feed

on the internet saying that the farmer would have to sell half of his animals if he did

not have chicken manure to feed his animals. I could look it up and send it on

to people if they cannot find the article. I should be able to find it again. Corn is just

too expensive to feed animals today. We lived next to a farmer and never saw any

animals. They were in the barn. One day they got loose and came over to our

farm to eat grass. The farmer said it is too expensive in the midwest to have

animals on grass. Corn produces a cash crop for a farmer. Alice

Re: What cows eat...

> Generally they are fed hay, corn sileage and grain. Is that > milk still worth drinking?Hi Dona:No.> Should I also be asking other questions about how the cows > are treated? I do usually ask about the antibiotic use. > What else do I need to be aware of?Antibiotics are not necessary when you have healthy cows. Healthy cowsproduce more nutritious milk than unhealthy cows.It is not what is in our food that kills us, but rather what isn't. Iseems everyone is so concerned with what is in our food or water butfew who are concerned about what isn't in our food. You might ask thefollowing:What breed of dairy cattle is producing the milk? Try to avoid anyhigh production

breed.Is any corn or corn sileage fed, and if so, is the corn hybrid corn?Try to avoid milk from cows fed corn of any kind. It's worse if thecorn is hybrid.Is any grass planted in the pastures and, if so, is the grass a hybridvariety? It is best if whatever grass grows in the pasture is therenaturally. It is worst if hybrid grass is planted in the pasture.What color is the natural color of the butter? The more yellow thebetter. The more white it is, the worse it is.What system of pasture management is employed? For your ownunderstanding of the needs of the cow and the grass, you mightpurchase and read Voisin's 'Grass Productivity' . It would be a bighelp if you decide to have your own cow.

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Guest guest]

Chicken manure is fed to young stock and dry cows because it is a source of Urea, it increases the nitrogen in the rumen, cheep source of protein. Also there are lots of byproducts like jelly beans, potato chips, pastry's, fruits, veggies, cocoa bean shells, urea, ground nuts, palm oils, whey, the worst is probably gen trash or Cotton burrs that are loaded with pesticides and dirt. If it is some source of a food product or something that the cows can digest it is probably fed to cattle. Find someone that feeds good clean hay or healthy pastures a minimum amount of grain, look over his place and see if it is clean and the cows look healthy. kstaven2000 wrote: I would avoid ANY operation that feeds cardboard manure etc like the plague. Producing quality milk and beef CAN be done very economically on forage and winter hay without the use of GARBAGE fillers. Stuffing a cow full of corn and grain is just not necessary, bad for the cow, the milk quality, and the overall quality of beef. Dairies and beef producers wouldn't use this #$@@ if they didn't have to pay protection to the industry in the way of quota fees and if they where allowed to actually sell what they produce to the consumer. So if you are buying from a producer that doesn't pasture you are getting a second rate reduced quality product. With god knows what floating in it that you don't want to be consuming.Kurtis>> Hi,> This is just not true. If you look up "What do cows eat" on the Internet you will find> out what cows really eat. I know someone in the cow feeding business and they> sell chicken manure, cardboard etc. for cow feed. There is an article on cow feed> on the internet saying that the farmer would have to sell half of his animals if he did> not have chicken manure to feed his animals. I could look it up and send it on> to people if they cannot find the article. I should be able to find it again. Corn is just> too expensive to feed animals today. We lived next to a farmer and never saw any> animals. They were in the barn. One day they got loose and came over to our > farm to eat grass. The farmer said it is too expensive in the midwest to have> animals on

grass. Corn produces a cash crop for a farmer. Alice> >

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[Guest guest]

Chicken manure is fed to young stock and dry cows because it is a source of Urea, it increases the nitrogen in the rumen, cheep source of protein. Also there are lots of byproducts like jelly beans, potato chips, pastry's, fruits, veggies, cocoa bean shells, urea, ground nuts, palm oils, whey, the worst is probably gen trash or Cotton burrs that are loaded with pesticides and dirt. If it is some source of a food product or something that the cows can digest it is probably fed to cattle. Find someone that feeds good clean hay or healthy pastures a minimum amount of grain, look over his place and see if it is clean and the cows look healthy. kstaven2000 wrote: I would avoid ANY operation that feeds cardboard manure etc like the plague. Producing quality milk and beef CAN be done very economically on forage and winter hay without the use of GARBAGE fillers. Stuffing a cow full of corn and grain is just not necessary, bad for the cow, the milk quality, and the overall quality of beef. Dairies and beef producers wouldn't use this #$@@ if they didn't have to pay protection to the industry in the way of quota fees and if they where allowed to actually sell what they produce to the consumer. So if you are buying from a producer that doesn't pasture you are getting a second rate reduced quality product. With god knows what floating in it that you don't want to be consuming.Kurtis>> Hi,> This is just not true. If you look up "What do cows eat" on the Internet you will find> out what cows really eat. I know someone in the cow feeding business and they> sell chicken manure, cardboard etc. for cow feed. There is an article on cow feed> on the internet saying that the farmer would have to sell half of his animals if he did> not have chicken manure to feed his animals. I could look it up and send it on> to people if they cannot find the article. I should be able to find it again. Corn is just> too expensive to feed animals today. We lived next to a farmer and never saw any> animals. They were in the barn. One day they got loose and came over to our > farm to eat grass. The farmer said it is too expensive in the midwest to have> animals on

grass. Corn produces a cash crop for a farmer. Alice> >

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[Guest guest]

Hi Cheyenne and others who have so graciously responded,

Thanks for the great info. We live in Utah. The more we study the milk delimma, the more we want to have our own cow. So, we were thinking of dividing 2 of our acres into 2 1-acre pastures. We need to spend some time tilling down the old wheat in the field and preparing the land for pasture.

1. What kind of pasture seed should I be looking for?

2. How long after planting can a cow roam in the pasture without damaging the new pasture?

The barn design you mentioned sounds great - although I don't know what a "pole" shed is. We would also like to have a chicken coup, a place to store hay, a cow pen/stall, and a milking room/place, just like you described.

3. What square footage is appropriate for that?

4. Are there some "floor plans" anywhere to look at?

Next to the cow itself...

5. Aren't different cows better creamers and some better milkers or something like that? In other words, how do I pick a cow to buy??? I don't even know what kinds of questions to ask yet!

Some friends of our have a cow for milking. That cow's offspring is about to calf and they are looking to sell the cow. That's all I know about the cow, though. We aren't quite set up yet to have a cow, but maybe by fall. But the cow would have to be fed hay until spring when the pasture comes up.

6. A cow must be milked twice a day, if I understand it correctly. What kind of window do you have so as not to damage the cow? For instance, you are gone for the day, it looks like you will be late for the evening milking, how late is too late?

Thanks for listening to my questions. We are excited about the prospect of having our own cow, but need to understand all the implications and necessities.

Dona

[Guest guest]

Hi Cheyenne and others who have so graciously responded,

Thanks for the great info. We live in Utah. The more we study the milk delimma, the more we want to have our own cow. So, we were thinking of dividing 2 of our acres into 2 1-acre pastures. We need to spend some time tilling down the old wheat in the field and preparing the land for pasture.

1. What kind of pasture seed should I be looking for?

2. How long after planting can a cow roam in the pasture without damaging the new pasture?

The barn design you mentioned sounds great - although I don't know what a "pole" shed is. We would also like to have a chicken coup, a place to store hay, a cow pen/stall, and a milking room/place, just like you described.

3. What square footage is appropriate for that?

4. Are there some "floor plans" anywhere to look at?

Next to the cow itself...

5. Aren't different cows better creamers and some better milkers or something like that? In other words, how do I pick a cow to buy??? I don't even know what kinds of questions to ask yet!

Some friends of our have a cow for milking. That cow's offspring is about to calf and they are looking to sell the cow. That's all I know about the cow, though. We aren't quite set up yet to have a cow, but maybe by fall. But the cow would have to be fed hay until spring when the pasture comes up.

6. A cow must be milked twice a day, if I understand it correctly. What kind of window do you have so as not to damage the cow? For instance, you are gone for the day, it looks like you will be late for the evening milking, how late is too late?

Thanks for listening to my questions. We are excited about the prospect of having our own cow, but need to understand all the implications and necessities.

Dona

[Guest guest]

Hi Cheyenne and others who have so graciously responded,

Thanks for the great info. We live in Utah. The more we study the milk delimma, the more we want to have our own cow. So, we were thinking of dividing 2 of our acres into 2 1-acre pastures. We need to spend some time tilling down the old wheat in the field and preparing the land for pasture.

1. What kind of pasture seed should I be looking for?

2. How long after planting can a cow roam in the pasture without damaging the new pasture?

The barn design you mentioned sounds great - although I don't know what a "pole" shed is. We would also like to have a chicken coup, a place to store hay, a cow pen/stall, and a milking room/place, just like you described.

3. What square footage is appropriate for that?

4. Are there some "floor plans" anywhere to look at?

Next to the cow itself...

5. Aren't different cows better creamers and some better milkers or something like that? In other words, how do I pick a cow to buy??? I don't even know what kinds of questions to ask yet!

Some friends of our have a cow for milking. That cow's offspring is about to calf and they are looking to sell the cow. That's all I know about the cow, though. We aren't quite set up yet to have a cow, but maybe by fall. But the cow would have to be fed hay until spring when the pasture comes up.

6. A cow must be milked twice a day, if I understand it correctly. What kind of window do you have so as not to damage the cow? For instance, you are gone for the day, it looks like you will be late for the evening milking, how late is too late?

Thanks for listening to my questions. We are excited about the prospect of having our own cow, but need to understand all the implications and necessities.

Dona

[Guest guest]

Hi Cheryl,

Yes, we are planning to go visit these friends. Actually, I've never met them. My husband works with the husband of that family. So they know each other. We have a time set up for next week to go visit, see how it's done, and ask billions of questions!

Thanks!

Dona

[Guest guest]

" Dona McGuire " writes:

> 1. What kind of pasture seed should I be looking for?

That really depends on your climate, so advice from Illinois might not

mean much in Utah. In general, I'd learn toward grasses and legumes

that grow well native to your area. (Around here, people plow under

wild clover to plant alfalfa. Go figure.) I think Salatin's views on

the advantages of many native varieties over a mono-culture of something

like alfalfa also make a lot of sense.

> 2. How long after planting can a cow roam in the pasture without

> damaging the new pasture?

That depends on what you're planting. Some things are planted in the

fall to be pastured in the spring, for example.

> 5. Aren't different cows better creamers and some better milkers or

> something like that?

Yes, Holsteins are the most common cow now because they give the most

milk, but very little cream. Jerseys are known for giving a lot of

cream, and they're also a much smaller cow, so they're easier to handle

and can be milked in a smaller space. Other breeds tend to fall

somewhere between those two. You probably don't want a Holstein for a

small farm, but other than that, it's mostly personal preference.

What's available in your area matters too, especially if you want to

breed your cow to a bull of the same breed without AI.

> 6. A cow must be milked twice a day, if I understand it correctly.

> What kind of window do you have so as not to damage the cow?

I don't know how long would cause " damage, " but my folks rarely vary

more than an hour. In fact, when the time changes between Standard and

Daylight, they shift their schedule so the cows don't have to.

> Thanks for listening to my questions. We are excited about the

> prospect of having our own cow, but need to understand all the

> implications and necessities.

Yeah, there are quite a few of those (not to scare you!). I'd agree

with the others who said to learn as much as you can from your new dairy

farmer best friends. Hang out with them and badger them with questions

until they kick you out. :-)

--

-- aaron.baugher.biz

[Guest guest]

" Dona McGuire " writes:

> 1. What kind of pasture seed should I be looking for?

That really depends on your climate, so advice from Illinois might not

mean much in Utah. In general, I'd learn toward grasses and legumes

that grow well native to your area. (Around here, people plow under

wild clover to plant alfalfa. Go figure.) I think Salatin's views on

the advantages of many native varieties over a mono-culture of something

like alfalfa also make a lot of sense.

> 2. How long after planting can a cow roam in the pasture without

> damaging the new pasture?

That depends on what you're planting. Some things are planted in the

fall to be pastured in the spring, for example.

> 5. Aren't different cows better creamers and some better milkers or

> something like that?

Yes, Holsteins are the most common cow now because they give the most

milk, but very little cream. Jerseys are known for giving a lot of

cream, and they're also a much smaller cow, so they're easier to handle

and can be milked in a smaller space. Other breeds tend to fall

somewhere between those two. You probably don't want a Holstein for a

small farm, but other than that, it's mostly personal preference.

What's available in your area matters too, especially if you want to

breed your cow to a bull of the same breed without AI.

> 6. A cow must be milked twice a day, if I understand it correctly.

> What kind of window do you have so as not to damage the cow?

I don't know how long would cause " damage, " but my folks rarely vary

more than an hour. In fact, when the time changes between Standard and

Daylight, they shift their schedule so the cows don't have to.

> Thanks for listening to my questions. We are excited about the

> prospect of having our own cow, but need to understand all the

> implications and necessities.

Yeah, there are quite a few of those (not to scare you!). I'd agree

with the others who said to learn as much as you can from your new dairy

farmer best friends. Hang out with them and badger them with questions

until they kick you out. :-)

--

-- aaron.baugher.biz

[Guest guest]

Cheyenne,

Thanks so much for this! Definitely helpful!

Could I ask you another question? You mentioned "at the end of their lactation"... does that mean one cow won't suffice? Do you need to rotate them? How long does the lactation last? Do they need to calve every so often to continue to produce milk? Can they give milk during pregnancy (assuming they have already had their first calf)?

Thanks so much.

Dona

[Guest guest]

Cheyenne,

Thanks so much for this! Definitely helpful!

Could I ask you another question? You mentioned "at the end of their lactation"... does that mean one cow won't suffice? Do you need to rotate them? How long does the lactation last? Do they need to calve every so often to continue to produce milk? Can they give milk during pregnancy (assuming they have already had their first calf)?

Thanks so much.

Dona

[Guest guest]

" Dona McGuire " writes:

> Could I ask you another question? You mentioned " at the end of their

> lactation " ... does that mean one cow won't suffice? Do you need to

> rotate them? How long does the lactation last? Do they need to calve

> every so often to continue to produce milk? Can they give milk during

> pregnancy (assuming they have already had their first calf)?

They can for a while, but they should be dried up about 60 days before

calving. The dry period helps prevent mastitis, and also lets them

store up the energy they'll need for the next calf. Giving birth and

then producing so much milk right away really drains them. So yes, if

you want to have fresh milk year-round, you'll need two cows calving at

different times (or a cow and a goat!).

Here's a typical cycle: Say your cow has her calf on Jan 1, so you start

milking her then. About mid-March, you'll breed her again as soon as

she comes into heat, but continue milking her. About Halloween (seven

months after whenever she was successfully bred), you'll dry her up.

Two months later, she has her next calf and you start all over again.

So assuming everything goes right--the bull (or AI guy) gets the job

done first chance, for instance--you'll be milking her about 10 months

out of each year.

--

-- aaron.baugher.biz

[Guest guest]

" Dona McGuire " writes:

> Could I ask you another question? You mentioned " at the end of their

> lactation " ... does that mean one cow won't suffice? Do you need to

> rotate them? How long does the lactation last? Do they need to calve

> every so often to continue to produce milk? Can they give milk during

> pregnancy (assuming they have already had their first calf)?

They can for a while, but they should be dried up about 60 days before

calving. The dry period helps prevent mastitis, and also lets them

store up the energy they'll need for the next calf. Giving birth and

then producing so much milk right away really drains them. So yes, if

you want to have fresh milk year-round, you'll need two cows calving at

different times (or a cow and a goat!).

Here's a typical cycle: Say your cow has her calf on Jan 1, so you start

milking her then. About mid-March, you'll breed her again as soon as

she comes into heat, but continue milking her. About Halloween (seven

months after whenever she was successfully bred), you'll dry her up.

Two months later, she has her next calf and you start all over again.

So assuming everything goes right--the bull (or AI guy) gets the job

done first chance, for instance--you'll be milking her about 10 months

out of each year.

--

-- aaron.baugher.biz

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Cheyenne!

Dona

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Cheyenne!

Dona

[Guest guest]

Thanks, . That's the kind of info I need.

Dona

[Guest guest]

I have been doing some reading and there are studies that show that 60 days dry is to long and has a negative impact on the cow. They are recommending 20 to 30 days. This causes less metabolic changes in the cow and improves the production on the next lactation.

They can for a while, but they should be dried up about 60 days beforecalving.

I usually put the bull in at 30 days which would be the first of Feb. I like using a bull because he never misses. I have had AI come three months in a row and still not get the cow bred. I even had a small bull this year and a very large cow and he still got the job done at the right time.

Chris

Here's a typical cycle: Say your cow has her calf on Jan 1, so you startmilking her then. About mid-March, you'll breed her again as soon asshe comes into heat, but continue milking her. --

..

[Guest guest]

I have been doing some reading and there are studies that show that 60 days dry is to long and has a negative impact on the cow. They are recommending 20 to 30 days. This causes less metabolic changes in the cow and improves the production on the next lactation.

They can for a while, but they should be dried up about 60 days beforecalving.

I usually put the bull in at 30 days which would be the first of Feb. I like using a bull because he never misses. I have had AI come three months in a row and still not get the cow bred. I even had a small bull this year and a very large cow and he still got the job done at the right time.

Chris

Here's a typical cycle: Say your cow has her calf on Jan 1, so you startmilking her then. About mid-March, you'll breed her again as soon asshe comes into heat, but continue milking her. --

..

[Guest guest]

Hi

Thanks for this info. Could you direct me to some of what you have been reading about 20-30 days dry vs 60 days? I'm learning so much and it is very fun.

Dona

[Guest guest]

Hi

Thanks for this info. Could you direct me to some of what you have been reading about 20-30 days dry vs 60 days? I'm learning so much and it is very fun.

Dona

[Guest guest]

Hi

Thanks for this info. Could you direct me to some of what you have been reading about 20-30 days dry vs 60 days? I'm learning so much and it is very fun.

Dona

[Guest guest]

Cheyenne,

Thanks again for your input. Do you know of any books that teach someone like me about milking cows? What's best for them, how to breed them, etc, from a healthy perspective, not the mass dairy production perspective?

When it comes to bulls... is it best to have one yourself? Is it expensive to have one come to breed with your cow? I'm assuming you don't want to breed the offspring with each other.

Thanks again! You are a wealth of great knowledge.

Sincerely,

Dona

[Guest guest]

Cheyenne,

Thanks again for your input. Do you know of any books that teach someone like me about milking cows? What's best for them, how to breed them, etc, from a healthy perspective, not the mass dairy production perspective?

When it comes to bulls... is it best to have one yourself? Is it expensive to have one come to breed with your cow? I'm assuming you don't want to breed the offspring with each other.

Thanks again! You are a wealth of great knowledge.

Sincerely,

Dona

[Guest guest]

Cheyenne,

Thanks again for your input. Do you know of any books that teach someone like me about milking cows? What's best for them, how to breed them, etc, from a healthy perspective, not the mass dairy production perspective?

When it comes to bulls... is it best to have one yourself? Is it expensive to have one come to breed with your cow? I'm assuming you don't want to breed the offspring with each other.

Thanks again! You are a wealth of great knowledge.

Sincerely,

Dona