Re: results interpretation?

September 9, 2006

Leigh,

I do have a cat but I've had him for over 10 years and I've never had any

symptoms of being allergic to him before. I actually used to be allergic to

cats with terrible sneezing fits and watery eyes, but then in the last eight

years or so I did not test positive anymore and the allergist thought I

developed immunity basically from being around cats all the time. In the most

recent test I did not come back allergic and that was since this all started

about 2-3 weeks ago. I know those tests are only a guideline, but it just

doesn't seem like that's what it is.

Plus when we were away I was around cats and every time we went away after we

got back from the trip I was around cats, too. Once I went away for two days

and stayed in at a friend's place and slept in the same bed as the cat and my

symptoms were totally gone until I came back here.

Also I asked my doc about it and he never heard of joint pain from pet allergy

-- has anyone ever heard of joint pain from a pet allergy before? If so I'd

like to hear about it because I didn't think those were the kind of reactions

that you would get from pets, although anything is possible.

Lori

September 9, 2006

It just seems to be in the apartment in general, nowhere specific, not worse or

better any place. I have really tried to find if there was one place or room

that was worse and it just is not apparent to me. : (

[] Re: results interpretation?

Lori,

Yes, I meant literally. It really doesn't matter if you can't smell

things very good, if your body is sensitive to something it will

react. There have been several time when I did not smell anything

and did not react right away, but within a couple of hours or so

after leaving a bldg I have the " ususal " reactions start to set in.

There have been many times when KC has gone into a bldg before me

and not smelled anything, then I enter (even with a mask on) and I

can smell something or start to feel " just not right " , this normally

for me is a good indication that there is a level of usually mold

that I am having a sensitivity to. Normally this happens at very low

levels. A high dose will put me on the ground. Unfortunately a

chemcial hit nails me within 10 seconds. But my body is very

sensitive and hopefully you are still at an allergic stage for

whatever chemical, be it manmade or natural. ONLY YOU can be the

judge of what will and will not cause a reaction. Everybody is

different and so are their sensitivities and reactions.

Sharon

>

> Sharon,

>

> It could be the mattress off gassing. I just don't know how to

tell rihgt now. I definitely do not have worse symptoms in some

rooms than others, though. I have experimented with that. But our

apartment is quite small by most standards.

>

> We got our mattress about a month before we went on vacation. I

do not recall any symptoms before the vacation. It doesn't mean I

didn't have them, but I don't remember getting them when the

mattress came in or anything like that. Then we left for three

weeks, went to Europe, came back and I was very sick within hours of

coming in to the apartment.

>

> But that does not mean it is not the mattress -- I talked to my

husband last night and we are definitely going to ONLY bring the bed

to the new place for a couple of nights when we first move and I

will sleep there by myself and see how I do. He wanted to bring the

whole bedroom and I said no, we have to be detectives, if we bring

more than just the bed, we won't know if it's the bed!

>

> I don't know if you meant literally to sniff ; ) but I have

pretty much no sense of smell after years of this Samter's syndrome,

so I have to have my husband do the sniffing. : )

>

> Lori

>

September 9, 2006

Lori, are you having sinus trouble or have you

developed any new allergies? What are your

symptoms? Do you still feel better when you

leave home? Do you have pet?

--- ldelp84227 <ldelp84227@...> wrote:

> Lori, sorry you are dealing with this. I agree

> with KC, you don't

> even know if you have mold yet? It is

> difficult to

September 9, 2006

Leigh,

Sorry, maybe you missed where I said this already. We are going to move into

the new place slowly but we still have to be out of here October 1st. We can't

afford to pay rent in two places, the landlord is just letting us move in early

into the new place after they rip out the carpets and clean it up, so although

we will do it slowly it has to be within two weeks or less.

We did not leave our A/C on while we were gone the whole time because the wiring

is not great here, so we didn't want to start a fire. But we did have a cat

sitter who came in and turned on the A/C for a while every day.

I do think it's quite possible it got musty in here, but we've been back for a

month now and I'm still reacting just as much if not stronger than I was when we

first got back. Also I am pretty convinced there may be mold IN the A/C judging

by the nastiness of the culture plates, so we have it off now and it's not

coming back on any time soon -- I want to get it cleaned professionally from the

inside out or pitch it and buy a new one for next year but we haven't been able

to get anywhere in here to take it out yet (too big to carry ourselves).

Thanks,

Lori

September 9, 2006

Lori, does sound like mold symptoms but I'm sure

there are other things that can have similar

symptoms but since happened after apartment

closed up and you were away, sounds like likely

scenerio. Did you shut of a/c while you were

gone or turn it to operate less? Humidity could

have gotten very high. What kind of weather was

it? Maybe mold count got high while you were

gone and you inhaled that and you either, 1)

developed sinus or lung inflamation which is

affecting you now (rather than apt) or 2.)

inhaled toxins from mold and they hang around in

body (and apt) for while. See if you doctor will

Rx CSM for you to try for detoxing liver and

body. See if that helps. Problem may be in your

body mostly and so it is very sensitive to

presence of toxins which may be an 'aftermath' of

toxins left on things in apt. Maybe no actual

mold growth, or colonies growing but high

humidity for awhile allowed some increased mold

activity and toxins emitted into air. They can

play havoc with immune system. You can take

articles on CSM and detoxing liver by googling

'hepaotoxicity' and 'cholestyramine'. It's many

time used as last resort in hospital setting for

people with liver failure. Of course,

traditional doctors will wait until it is too

late or almost too late to try something that may

actually detox the liver rather than all their

other mucky mucky stuff. Maybe the CSM will

alleviate your symptoms. If so, then you know it

was toxins. Won't prove mold toxins but together

with scenerio would sound like it. Since it is

such a recent thing, you should be okay if you do

something right now like you are.

--- Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote:

> BBW,

>

> It is possible for us to move again I suppose.

> It would be a lot more difficult because the

>

September 9, 2006

Lori, there have also been people in this group

that have BUILT new homes to move into after

being sick, only to find they can't live in them,

so you can understand in cases like that why

advice would be to take nothing at all, and how

it would be worth giving up even a new bed in

that case.

--- Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote:

> BBW,

>

> It is possible for us to move again I suppose.

>

September 9, 2006

Hi Lori,

I'm in SW Ohio and lead is a leading contaminant

here also along with house with lead paint

problem, and high lead in body I'm trying to get

rid of. I didn't realize lead was an air

contaminant until I found out on that site. That

site address was given to me at Dallas Clinic I

went to for help. Interesting huh?

--- Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote:

>

> I went on the scorecard.org site --

> interestingly lead is ranked high among the

> hazards there, and we did test positive here

> for lead. Blood tests come back next week.

> That site is pretty disturbing in general, huh?

>

> Lori

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

September 9, 2006

Did it then drip onto the floor beneath radiator,

anything below carpet there perhaps?

--- Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote:

> BBW,

>

> The water was leaking onto the radiator. It

> has this valve

September 9, 2006

Lori,

I doubt this has anything to do with pets. Many of the

people on this list were told that all of their

problems were being caused by allergies to pets.

Just a thought-

September 9, 2006

Lori, then you will have what kind of floor?

--- Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote:

> Leigh,

>

> No. They are ripping out the old carpet.

>

> Lori

September 9, 2006

It might have taken a while for offgasing of

mattress to affect apartment, but then

July/August for apt to be closed sounds like

something that could have been caused by high

humidity and that usually is mold...don't know

anything about high humidity and bacteria in old

carpet for example????? Everyone focuses on mold

here since that has been main culprit, but where

there is too much mold there may be too much

bacterial growth.

Does bacteria growth, give off toxins too??

--- Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote:

> Sharon,

>

> It could be the mattress off gassing. I just

> don't know how to tell rihgt now. I definitely

> do not have worse symptoms in some rooms than

> others, though. I have experimented with that.

> But our apartment is quite small by most

> standards.

>

> We got our mattress about a month before we

> went on vacation. I do not recall any symptoms

> before the vacation. It doesn't mean I didn't

> have them, but I don't remember getting them

> when the mattress came in or anything like

> that. Then we left for three weeks, went to

> Europe, came back and I was very sick within

> hours of coming in to the apartment.

>

> But that does not mean it is not the mattress

> -- I talked to my husband last night and we are

> definitely going to ONLY bring the bed to the

> new place for a couple of nights when we first

> move and I will sleep there by myself and see

> how I do. He wanted to bring the whole bedroom

> and I said no, we have to be detectives, if we

> bring more than just the bed, we won't know if

> it's the bed!

>

> I don't know if you meant literally to sniff ;

> ) but I have pretty much no sense of smell

> after years of this Samter's syndrome, so I

> have to have my husband do the sniffing. : )

>

> Lori

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

September 9, 2006

Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote:

>

> Leigh,

>

> I do have a cat but I've had him for over 10 years and I've never

had any symptoms of being allergic to him before.

>

> Plus when we were away I was around cats and every time we went

away after we got back from the trip I was around cats, too. Once I

went away for two days and stayed in at a friend's place and slept

in the same bed as the cat and my symptoms were totally gone until I

came back here.

>

> Also I asked my doc about it and he never heard of joint pain from

pet allergy -- has anyone ever heard of joint pain from a pet

allergy before? If so I'd like to hear about it because I didn't

think those were the kind of reactions that you would get from pets,

although anything is possible.

>

> Lori

A lot of poor cats have paid the ultimate price for

the ignorance of doctors.

Glad you aren't listening to them.

Did you see my story about that in Chapt 23?

" Why am I only allergic to my cat when I'm in a moldy building? "

I still have my cat.

-

/message/20276

September 9, 2006

Hi Lori,

Do the papers feel damp or wet? or have you ever

noticed that they did? If so, then you should probably

copy them and dispose of as many as you can-

just my thoughts-

September 9, 2006

Hi BBW

I have Samters syndrome which is an autoimmune type disorder with genetic

components. I've had it for 20 years and have lived in different places during

that time with no difference in my symptoms based on location. As part of the

syndrome I have nasal polyps and asthma, so I always have sinus difficulties.

They may have worsened a little bit at this time but it's always hard to tell.

This syndrome does not cause joint pain.

I don't know what you mean by developed any new allergies exactly. I actually

used to have really bad allergies but recently when I was tested all of my

allergies were negative even though my general IgEs were high.

The main symptom I get when I come into the home is after a few hours, sometimes

less, I get severe joint pain that starts in my knees and spreads to all of the

mid-sized joints. I also seem to have a harder time breathing when I am here

and cough more (I don't usually cough with my asthma). Yes, I still feel better

when I leave home.

Yes, we have a cat, but I have had him for 11 years and the doctor told me

several years ago I probably developed immunity to him. I have been around

other pets including cats and dogs when I have not been at home, and I have

still felt better.

Lori

Re: [] Re: results interpretation?

Lori, are you having sinus trouble or have you

developed any new allergies? What are your

symptoms? Do you still feel better when you

leave home? Do you have pet?

--- ldelp84227 <ldelp84227@...> wrote:

> Lori, sorry you are dealing with this. I agree

> with KC, you don't

> even know if you have mold yet? It is

> difficult to

September 9, 2006

We have no air handling system. We only have window A/C in one room. I did

test the different rooms and they did not seem any different.

We really only have one room with a door anyway, and that is the bedroom. The

apartment wasn't really shut up when we were gone, though, because the cat

sitter was coming in, and the doors and windows were open.

Lori

Re: [] results interpretation?

Leigh, that sounds like good advice, then things

have not been blowing around the house by the

forced air system. Reminds me of Jeff's advice

to close door to each room for a day or so and

then what it smells like when you open it. Maybe

should do that before air testing rooms also.

Isolate them by both turning off air handling

system and then shutting doors to all rooms so

particular problems will show more exactly where

they are. Lori, you might try that if you have

several rooms before testing, shut all the rooms,

go away for the weekend or something and come

back and test each room. That is in a way

recreating conditions where you left for trip and

came back and felt sick. You can go on small two

day trip and come back and test right when you

get back.

--- Leigh McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...>

wrote:

> The pros tell me that it is best to test when

> the ac/heat and all filters have been off for

> 24 hours at least.

>

September 9, 2006

hardwoods

Re: [] results interpretation?

good. are there hardwoods beneath or concrete???

Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote: Leigh,

No. They are ripping out the old carpet.

Lori

September 9, 2006

No, they don't. Nothing in our apartment does actually.

Lori

[] Re: results interpretation?

Hi Lori,

Do the papers feel damp or wet? or have you ever

noticed that they did? If so, then you should probably

copy them and dispose of as many as you can-

just my thoughts-

September 9, 2006

Barb,

Yes it does. Google bacteria, endotoxins.

>

> > Sharon,

> >

> > It could be the mattress off gassing. I just

> > don't know how to tell rihgt now. I definitely

> > do not have worse symptoms in some rooms than

> > others, though. I have experimented with that.

> > But our apartment is quite small by most

> > standards.

> >

> > We got our mattress about a month before we

> > went on vacation. I do not recall any symptoms

> > before the vacation. It doesn't mean I didn't

> > have them, but I don't remember getting them

> > when the mattress came in or anything like

> > that. Then we left for three weeks, went to

> > Europe, came back and I was very sick within

> > hours of coming in to the apartment.

> >

> > But that does not mean it is not the mattress

> > -- I talked to my husband last night and we are

> > definitely going to ONLY bring the bed to the

> > new place for a couple of nights when we first

> > move and I will sleep there by myself and see

> > how I do. He wanted to bring the whole bedroom

> > and I said no, we have to be detectives, if we

> > bring more than just the bed, we won't know if

> > it's the bed!

> >

> > I don't know if you meant literally to sniff ;

> > ) but I have pretty much no sense of smell

> > after years of this Samter's syndrome, so I

> > have to have my husband do the sniffing. : )

> >

> > Lori

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

>

September 9, 2006

-Lori, it does sound like the mold may have started in the radiator

or somewhere below from the leak and and the ac picked it up out of

the air and its there too and produceing it and putting it back out

into the air. if your allready sickly its not going to take much for

it to get to you. great idea to keep ac off and covered, I would

even cover the radiator to if you can. I love pets myself but they do

have mold in theri dander and that dander is in your space, your may

of had immunity to that level but with extra mold around that might

change, I've heard, once allergic allways allergic, but I really

think mold is a big factor in all allergys if not the sole cause and

its the particles you inhale along with mold that you than become

sensatized to. just my view. the biggest problem you may have is the

mold dust that is attracted to electronics and settles inside

equipment. is this band equipment you have? also tv's and computers.

I dont know about matresses, I had to buy a new one, I did have it in

a moldy apartment for a short time, actually two, and although the

apartments bothered me and I had to move after getting in a mold free

apartment my matress does not bother me, but it did get some airing

out between moveing. I bought several of those large plastic

containers and put everything in them that had a question mark,

cleaned them first, than after I got moved took them one at a time

outside and when through them again, cleaned a few things at a time

and brought them in. the only thing still in containers is my antique

books which I may never be able to tolerate. the microwave thing may

be worth a

try,??

-- In , bbw

<barb1283@...> wrote:

>

> Did it then drip onto the floor beneath radiator,

> anything below carpet there perhaps?

>

> --- Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote:

>

> > BBW,

> >

> > The water was leaking onto the radiator. It

> > has this valve

>

September 9, 2006

The best answer to that is to go the the Web site listed:

http://www.amvicsystem.com/

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> I wonder if these are just for foundations or can

> they be used for above ground building walls

> also?

> --- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

>

> > ,

> >

> > Thanks for this link. Insulated Concrete Forms

> > (ICFs) are the latest

> > for energy efficiency AND to control of

> > moisture and mold. Heard lots

> > of good stuff about it at a recent building

> > science conference.

> >

> > Carl

> >

> > -----

> > > Amvicsystem, metal truss and roof.

> > > http://www.amvicsystem.com/

> > > -

> >

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

September 10, 2006

Jeanine,

Two questions:

Is mold really in the dander of pets?? Don't you

think dander would get moldy after falling off

pet and into carpet, etc??

Is dust actually 'attracted' to electronics or

does it just fall into keyboards and such from

gravity and not an area usually dusted?

Thanks, Barb

--- who <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

> -Lori, it does sound like the mold may have

> started in the radiator

> or somewhere below from the leak and and the ac

> picked it up out of

> the air and its there too and produceing it and

> putting it back out

> into the air. if your allready sickly its not

> going to take much for

> it to get to you. great idea to keep ac off

> and covered, I would

> even cover the radiator to if you can. I love

> pets myself but they do

> have mold in theri dander and that dander is in

> your space, your may

> of had immunity to that level but with extra

> mold around that might

> change, I've heard, once allergic allways

> allergic, but I really

> think mold is a big factor in all allergys if

> not the sole cause and

> its the particles you inhale along with mold

> that you than become

> sensatized to. just my view. the biggest

> problem you may have is the

> mold dust that is attracted to electronics and

> settles inside

> equipment. is this band equipment you have?

> also tv's and computers.

> I dont know about matresses, I had to buy a new

> one, I did have it in

> a moldy apartment for a short time, actually

> two, and although the

> apartments bothered me and I had to move after

> getting in a mold free

> apartment my matress does not bother me, but it

> did get some airing

> out between moveing. I bought several of those

> large plastic

> containers and put everything in them that had

> a question mark,

> cleaned them first, than after I got moved took

> them one at a time

> outside and when through them again, cleaned a

> few things at a time

> and brought them in. the only thing still in

> containers is my antique

> books which I may never be able to tolerate.

> the microwave thing may

> be worth a

> try,??

>

> -- In

> , bbw

> <barb1283@...> wrote:

> >

> > Did it then drip onto the floor beneath

> radiator,

> > anything below carpet there perhaps?

> >

> > --- Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote:

> >

> > > BBW,

> > >

> > > The water was leaking onto the radiator.

> It

> > > has this valve

> >

>

September 10, 2006

Did you turn off the a/c when you went away?

--- Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote:

We really only have one room with a door

> anyway, and that is the bedroom. The apartment

> wasn't really shut up when we were gone,

> though, because the cat sitter was coming in,

> and the doors and windows were open.

>

> Lori

>

September 10, 2006

On 9/9/06, Leigh McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...> wrote:

> The pros tell me that it is best to test when the ac/heat and all filters have

been off for 24 hours at least.

>

At the risk of soundling like a broken record, that sounds like an

unrealistic situation. I would say that they should keep the

shortcomings of spore testing in mind.. If they spore test under a

variety of typical conditions of occupation, weather.times.. etc..

they can still get valuable information on what kinds of mold might be

growing there.. But I don't think spore tests are a reliable

indication of 'safeness' of a space.. Just of the existence of a

problem, because even if they test in every room and at several times

during the day, that air testing usually just tests for recognizable

spores.. and not for actual mold toxins.. also, all asp/pen spores

look alike.. and stachybotrys rarely sporulates.. however, it can and

does break up and create toxic dust.. (which could just show up as

toxic particulate matter.. not as spores.. so it wouldn't be counted

as mold

If there is a stachy problem, its best to do high volume air sampling

as described below for that reason.. (although the equipment isn't

widely available yet, so this may not be practical..)

See

http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/71/1/114

and

http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/71/11/7376

They are both relevant..

)

September 10, 2006

My expert was going by the fact that I have special filters the size of a

refrigerator on my systems.

LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote: On 9/9/06, Leigh

McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...> wrote: