Re: results interpretation?

[Guest guest]

Lori,

How soon do you need to know? I wouldn't get rid

of it until you've determined you have mold

problem or something that would affect bed. If

you are renting, can't you move AGAIN if you take

things and then determine you wish you had left

everything behind? Some people moved things into

a house they bought and then regretted it but if

you are renting it would seem easier to correct.

Not that you should keep 'moldy' bed but it

sounds like it is in good condition until proven

otherwise I would think at this point anyway.

Might you have allergies instead of illness??

Don't know what your symptoms are. Allergens can

easily be cleaned up if that turns out to be

problem. Perhaps not easy but certainly able to

be done.

--- Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote:

> I appreciate the response -- but why can't we

> take it? How do we know there is mold in it?

> Why would there be mold in it? We cannot

> afford to buy ANY new furniture, so anything we

> don't take we won't have -- and all we have is

> a sofa and a bed basically. We are going to

> get rid of the sofa most likely but my god. I

> don't know what to do now.

>

> Lori

>

[Guest guest]

There are other indoor air quality problems

besides mold so it might be chemical or pollution

in your area. Look at scorecard.org. or .com I

think that is address for your zip code to see

what major pollutants are.

--- Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote:

> We don't really have a high moisture content in

> the home -- like I mentioned in an earlier

> post, we keep the rooms year-long humidity

> controlled because of my husband's instruments.

> And I guess what I am trying to say is I still

> don't know if this is all from mold or not. :

> (

>

[Guest guest]

Your idea to sleep in empty apartment first and

then see as you move things in how you feel

sounds like excellent idea. I know will

approve too.

--- Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote:

> If I knew there was mold in the books I would

> throw them away, probably not microwave them.

> But I just don't know that there IS mold in

> them -- that's the problem I'm having. I agree

> getting rid of the mold is the way to go, but I

> also think there has to be a better way than

> just throwing away the baby and the bathwater

> all at once.

>

[Guest guest]

What kind of weather did area have when you were

away, hot and humid or was vacation you are

referring to in winter?

--- Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote:

> Leigh,

>

> No, we haven't painted, renovated or used

> pesticides.

>

> My reaction started when we came back from

> vacation after being gone for three weeks. I

> may have been having a

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for this link. Insulated Concrete Forms (ICFs) are the latest

for energy efficiency AND to control of moisture and mold. Heard lots

of good stuff about it at a recent building science conference.

Carl

-----

> Amvicsystem, metal truss and roof.

> http://www.amvicsystem.com/

> -

[Guest guest]

Lori, sorry you are dealing with this. I agree with KC, you don't

even know if you have mold yet? It is difficult to just throw

everything away. I had three different mold places and had to throw

things away in every place, but I definitely knew I had mold. I

could not see mold on my stuff but the stench from the mold in each

place was awful. Especially when you start moving, stuff gets kicked

up from all the movement. It gets harder as you go cuz the air get

contaminated in the move. I have moved 5 times since I got ill and

am now at a relatives and they have mold. I am wondering what I will

have to get rid of when I leave here. It must seem crazy to people

that don't have trouble breathing in the stuff. Most of the places I

had mold I could see it actively growing in the wall. Here I am not

sick all the time like in the other places but I smell it and you can

see on the ceiling where they had a plumming leak. Here it is

especially bad when the window is open. I guess when the window is

open it brings the mold out from in between the walls. I think the

first thing is to be soooo sure that where you go is okay. I had

never heard of mold before I got ill in 1997. It got in the air

system in several of the places so when the air was on I really had

severe pain in my lungs and sinuses. I also have MCS but I didn't

know it when I was getting it. Seems like my husband and I started

having trouble with shampoos, etc. It was a time when my daughter was

a teenager and they use all those fragranced products. But I

definitely could see that I felt better outside. Definitely use a

mask when moving. I could go on and on but don't want to write too

much. Would be happy to guide you.

> >

> > Leigh, I have been reading up a lot on molds, and then I came to

> this group. Reading has not given me the answers. In fact I feel

> even more confused than when I started even though I spend hours

> every day on this problem trying to figure out what to do and doing

> different kind of experiments on my body, taking cultures, sending

> them away, etc.

> >

> > I do appreciate all your responses, but I don't understand the

> point of this group if your answer is just to throw away everything

> or to read up on molds and decide for myself. I thought the value

> was to talk to people who have been through it and see what they've

> done and how they have determined these things and get a variety of

> experience.

> >

> > I'm sorry if I have offended you in some way. I am just trying

to

> get help like everyone else here. I do not expect to get the holy

> grail but I just am looking for guidance.

> >

> > Lori

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Remember they do have dogs that look for mold. I know they do in

Florida but don't know where else. Sounds interesting.

>

> > If I knew there was mold in the books I would

> > throw them away, probably not microwave them.

> > But I just don't know that there IS mold in

> > them -- that's the problem I'm having. I agree

> > getting rid of the mold is the way to go, but I

> > also think there has to be a better way than

> > just throwing away the baby and the bathwater

> > all at once.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

BBW,

It is possible for us to move again I suppose. It would be a lot more difficult

because the landlord is being very accomodating now adjusting our lease for us.

But what you are saying really makes sense.

They are ripping out the carpets in the apartment we are moving into next week

and then at some point we can move in but we have to be out of here by October

1st. Before we move in my husband will clean it thoroughly and we'll let it air

out for a couple of days and we'll get the air filters going over there before I

move in. I also am going to do a feng shui space clearing ceremony because why

not?

I don't know how to tell the differences between allergens or illness or what

that really even means or what difference it makes ... but I think I understand

what you are saying. I thought of the mold as the allergen that is making me

sick ... my IgE levels are very high but not to anything specific they tested

for. I will see the doc again next week to talk about it. He's very open and

trying to help me figure out what this is, not dismissing my symptoms at all.

My symptoms are joint pain that comes on within a few hours usually of entering

the home after having been gone for at least eight to ten hours or longer. It

starts in my knees and then spreads to most of my medium-sized joints such as

elbows, ankles, wrists. I take a nutritional powder that I highly recommend for

inflammation called UltraInflamX and then helps alleviate it a little bit. My

sinuses are also somewhat worse and my breathing is pretty significantly worse

when I am at home and I cough a lot (I already have asthma and nasal polyps from

a condition called Samter's syndrome, but for a while now my symptoms have been

generally under control). I also feel very tired and run down when I am here

and kind of foggy in the brain.

When I leave for eight to ten hours or more the joint pain goes away completely

and I can breathe better again and my sinuses start to clear somewhat.

Thanks for your response -- it's very helpful.

Lori

[Guest guest]

BBW,

I did an experiment where I sat outside in our courtyard for several hours after

being away for a couple of days and my symptoms did not return. After a couple

of hours back in the apartment, they did return. I don't know how scientific

this is, but it seemed pretty clear it wasn't something outside of the

apartment.

I went on the scorecard.org site -- interestingly lead is ranked high among the

hazards there, and we did test positive here for lead. Blood tests come back

next week. That site is pretty disturbing in general, huh?

Lori

[Guest guest]

I'll do that -- although not with the A/C on because I am pretty certain there

is something in there and I am not turning it on again until it's been cleaned

(or we may just remove it).

Good luck with finding your place to stay ...

Lori

[Guest guest]

BBW,

The vacation was in July to August and it was during that huge heat wave ... so

yes that is is a clue ...

Lori

[Guest guest]

BBW,

The water was leaking onto the radiator. It has this valve at the top where you

turn it on and off and a lot of water was leaking out of there onto the

radiator. That's why we tested there, and because it looks to me like mold or

some type of growth on the radiator, and the results I posted earlier were the

results I got back from sampling the gunk that's on the radiator, which Carl was

saying were basically negative.

Lori

[Guest guest]

Lori,

I can't remember if you said that your reactions/symptoms started

soon after you purchased your new mattress. If so that would be a

good indicator that something is a miss. ALL new mattresses are

pretreated by law. It may still be off gasing and the reaction you

are having may be similiar to the one you have with mushrooms. I

know there are just some slight differences between my " mold hits "

and my " chemical hits " that I have learned (unfortunately through

many years of each) to tell the difference. You have an allergic

reaction to mushrooms, you may be having an allergic reaction to

some sort of chemical that is similiar to your mushroom symptoms.

If it is your mattress, it may be off gasing for a while. Each

person who is chemically sensitive will have a different length of

time that they will react, so there is no set in concrete time

frame. You may have to be your own detective, follow your nose. This

may sound funny but you may have to start sniffing around your apt

to see what or where you seem to react the most and I'd start with

your mattress.

Just a thought.

Sharon C.

>

> Thanks so much, Sharon. The only thing I know for sure is it's

something in the apartment and when I go away I feel better.

>

> I have wondered about the new mattress -- I don't know how to find

out if is giving off chemicals, though. How do you find that out?

>

> The main reason I focused on mold is because the reaction I'm

having is what I get if I ingest mushrooms. Other than that I have

no clue -- my symptoms are not necessarily typical of anything in

particular. There is lead paint here, but my understanding is if I

had symptoms from lead, they might not go away if I left. But I'll

get the blood test for lead back next week and maybe that will shed

some light.

>

> I'll keep plugging away. We will be able to move over a week or

two's time, which is good. But we will have to be out of here by

October 1st, so that is stressing me out because obviously I don't

want to bring the big THING whatever it is with us.

>

> Thanks again

>

> Lori

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Hmm never heard of that with dogs smelling mold, that is interesting, have to

look into that.

Yeah, we don't know for sure if there is mold, although the mold culture plate

from the AC looked pretty nasty. I guess it will take a while to get those

results, though.

I will take heed about what you said about making sure the new place is okay.

It seems very okay. My husband has a good smeller, I don't. And he sniffed all

around the new place. Of course our place does not smell either and we had

other people come, both friends and the building workers, and they could not

smell anything or find mold anywhere.

The reason I speculate mold is because my symptoms are the same as that when I

ingest mushrooms or come in any contact with them. So that to me seemed like a

likely culprit. And so far we haven't found anything else except possibly lead

-- although I realize it's unlikely my exposure is that high, I suppose it is

possible.

Thanks

Lori

[Guest guest]

Sharon,

It could be the mattress off gassing. I just don't know how to tell rihgt now.

I definitely do not have worse symptoms in some rooms than others, though. I

have experimented with that. But our apartment is quite small by most

standards.

We got our mattress about a month before we went on vacation. I do not recall

any symptoms before the vacation. It doesn't mean I didn't have them, but I

don't remember getting them when the mattress came in or anything like that.

Then we left for three weeks, went to Europe, came back and I was very sick

within hours of coming in to the apartment.

But that does not mean it is not the mattress -- I talked to my husband last

night and we are definitely going to ONLY bring the bed to the new place for a

couple of nights when we first move and I will sleep there by myself and see how

I do. He wanted to bring the whole bedroom and I said no, we have to be

detectives, if we bring more than just the bed, we won't know if it's the bed!

I don't know if you meant literally to sniff ; ) but I have pretty much no

sense of smell after years of this Samter's syndrome, so I have to have my

husband do the sniffing. : )

Lori

[Guest guest]

Lori--are they putting new carpet in your new apartment???

Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote: BBW,

It is possible for us to move again I suppose. It would be a lot more difficult

because the landlord is being very accomodating now adjusting our lease for us.

But what you are saying really makes sense.

They are ripping out the carpets in the apartment we are moving into next week

and then at some point we can move in but we have to be out of here by October

1st. Before we move in my husband will clean it thoroughly and we'll let it air

out for a couple of days and we'll get the air filters going over there before I

move in. I also am going to do a feng shui space clearing ceremony because why

not?

I don't know how to tell the differences between allergens or illness or what

that really even means or what difference it makes ... but I think I understand

what you are saying. I thought of the mold as the allergen that is making me

sick ... my IgE levels are very high but not to anything specific they tested

for. I will see the doc again next week to talk about it. He's very open and

trying to help me figure out what this is, not dismissing my symptoms at all.

My symptoms are joint pain that comes on within a few hours usually of entering

the home after having been gone for at least eight to ten hours or longer. It

starts in my knees and then spreads to most of my medium-sized joints such as

elbows, ankles, wrists. I take a nutritional powder that I highly recommend for

inflammation called UltraInflamX and then helps alleviate it a little bit. My

sinuses are also somewhat worse and my breathing is pretty significantly worse

when I am at home and I cough a lot (I already have asthma and nasal polyps from

a condition called Samter's syndrome, but for a while now my symptoms have been

generally under control). I also feel very tired and run down when I am here and

kind of foggy in the brain.

When I leave for eight to ten hours or more the joint pain goes away completely

and I can breathe better again and my sinuses start to clear somewhat.

Thanks for your response -- it's very helpful.

Lori

[Guest guest]

Leigh,

No. They are ripping out the old carpet.

Lori

[Guest guest]

I tried that in a house last week and it is a good thing because even my non

believing spouse itched. of course the house had been vacant for 6 weeks, not

aired and he had to dust mop it. I investigated and located mold on the walls

behind the toilets.

bbw <barb1283@...> wrote: Your idea to sleep in empty apartment

first and

then see as you move things in how you feel

sounds like excellent idea. I know will

approve too.

--- Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote:

> If I knew there was mold in the books I would

> throw them away, probably not microwave them.

> But I just don't know that there IS mold in

> them -- that's the problem I'm having. I agree

> getting rid of the mold is the way to go, but I

> also think there has to be a better way than

> just throwing away the baby and the bathwater

> all at once.

>

[Guest guest]

The pros tell me that it is best to test when the ac/heat and all filters have

been off for 24 hours at least.

bbw <barb1283@...> wrote: Lori,

I was looking at office space where I live since

I have a tremendous amount of papers and

documents I must go through. Many are 175 or 200

a month with janitorial services included etc.

Perhaps for your business you could use a small

one room office space for working on papers and

business end of things, music and at least keep

some distance from living areas. HOWEVER, you

may not have 'mold problem'. You don't know yet.

Presence of mold doesn't mean you have 'mold or

toxic problem'.

I think also there is a place you can send a

suspect item to test for myctoxins. Texas Tech

or P & K Labs perhaps???

I would get a set of 4 to 8 culture plates from

Dallas and run those, one control outside and

others in areas you suspect or you spend the most

time before winter sets in, since you see no

visible mold. In winter my plates were okay but

in summer the mold count in house was high, so I

was thinking everything was okay but it was just

that humidity was too low for things to show up.

Don't buy anyting new until you figure this out.

--- Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback on this,

[Guest guest]

Lori--do you have any pets by any chance??? you could be allergic. leigh

Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote: Sharon,

It could be the mattress off gassing. I just don't know how to tell rihgt now. I

definitely do not have worse symptoms in some rooms than others, though. I have

experimented with that. But our apartment is quite small by most standards.

We got our mattress about a month before we went on vacation. I do not recall

any symptoms before the vacation. It doesn't mean I didn't have them, but I

don't remember getting them when the mattress came in or anything like that.

Then we left for three weeks, went to Europe, came back and I was very sick

within hours of coming in to the apartment.

But that does not mean it is not the mattress -- I talked to my husband last

night and we are definitely going to ONLY bring the bed to the new place for a

couple of nights when we first move and I will sleep there by myself and see how

I do. He wanted to bring the whole bedroom and I said no, we have to be

detectives, if we bring more than just the bed, we won't know if it's the bed!

I don't know if you meant literally to sniff ; ) but I have pretty much no sense

of smell after years of this Samter's syndrome, so I have to have my husband do

the sniffing. : )

Lori

[Guest guest]

while you are still at the stage of feeling better when you are away, why not

try renting the new place and moving one thing at a time into your new space???

I wonder, when you were away on vacation did you leave your ac on??? it could

have gotten musty in there if you did not. also,

Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote: ,

Hmm never heard of that with dogs smelling mold, that is interesting, have to

look into that.

Yeah, we don't know for sure if there is mold, although the mold culture plate

from the AC looked pretty nasty. I guess it will take a while to get those

results, though.

I will take heed about what you said about making sure the new place is okay. It

seems very okay. My husband has a good smeller, I don't. And he sniffed all

around the new place. Of course our place does not smell either and we had other

people come, both friends and the building workers, and they could not smell

anything or find mold anywhere.

The reason I speculate mold is because my symptoms are the same as that when I

ingest mushrooms or come in any contact with them. So that to me seemed like a

likely culprit. And so far we haven't found anything else except possibly lead

-- although I realize it's unlikely my exposure is that high, I suppose it is

possible.

Thanks

Lori

[Guest guest]

Lori,

Yes, I meant literally. It really doesn't matter if you can't smell

things very good, if your body is sensitive to something it will

react. There have been several time when I did not smell anything

and did not react right away, but within a couple of hours or so

after leaving a bldg I have the " ususal " reactions start to set in.

There have been many times when KC has gone into a bldg before me

and not smelled anything, then I enter (even with a mask on) and I

can smell something or start to feel " just not right " , this normally

for me is a good indication that there is a level of usually mold

that I am having a sensitivity to. Normally this happens at very low

levels. A high dose will put me on the ground. Unfortunately a

chemcial hit nails me within 10 seconds. But my body is very

sensitive and hopefully you are still at an allergic stage for

whatever chemical, be it manmade or natural. ONLY YOU can be the

judge of what will and will not cause a reaction. Everybody is

different and so are their sensitivities and reactions.

Sharon

>

> Sharon,

>

> It could be the mattress off gassing. I just don't know how to

tell rihgt now. I definitely do not have worse symptoms in some

rooms than others, though. I have experimented with that. But our

apartment is quite small by most standards.

>

> We got our mattress about a month before we went on vacation. I

do not recall any symptoms before the vacation. It doesn't mean I

didn't have them, but I don't remember getting them when the

mattress came in or anything like that. Then we left for three

weeks, went to Europe, came back and I was very sick within hours of

coming in to the apartment.

>

> But that does not mean it is not the mattress -- I talked to my

husband last night and we are definitely going to ONLY bring the bed

to the new place for a couple of nights when we first move and I

will sleep there by myself and see how I do. He wanted to bring the

whole bedroom and I said no, we have to be detectives, if we bring

more than just the bed, we won't know if it's the bed!

>

> I don't know if you meant literally to sniff ; ) but I have

pretty much no sense of smell after years of this Samter's syndrome,

so I have to have my husband do the sniffing. : )

>

> Lori

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

good. are there hardwoods beneath or concrete???

Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote: Leigh,

No. They are ripping out the old carpet.

Lori

[Guest guest]

Leigh, that sounds like good advice, then things

have not been blowing around the house by the

forced air system. Reminds me of Jeff's advice

to close door to each room for a day or so and

then what it smells like when you open it. Maybe

should do that before air testing rooms also.

Isolate them by both turning off air handling

system and then shutting doors to all rooms so

particular problems will show more exactly where

they are. Lori, you might try that if you have

several rooms before testing, shut all the rooms,

go away for the weekend or something and come

back and test each room. That is in a way

recreating conditions where you left for trip and

came back and felt sick. You can go on small two

day trip and come back and test right when you

get back.

--- Leigh McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...>

wrote:

> The pros tell me that it is best to test when

> the ac/heat and all filters have been off for

> 24 hours at least.

>

[Guest guest]

I wonder if these are just for foundations or can

they be used for above ground building walls

also?

--- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

> ,

>

> Thanks for this link. Insulated Concrete Forms

> (ICFs) are the latest

> for energy efficiency AND to control of

> moisture and mold. Heard lots

> of good stuff about it at a recent building

> science conference.

>

> Carl

>

> -----

> > Amvicsystem, metal truss and roof.

> > http://www.amvicsystem.com/

> > -

>

>

>