Vitamin D

February 22, 2007

>

> If you " down under " folk are ordering from iHerb, you might want to

> consider ordering from Vitaglo. It's cheaper, and they have

international

> shipping.

>

> They sell NOW Shark Liver Oil which contains 10,000IU Vit A, and

it's

> soy-free. They also sell a Vitamin D 1000IU supplement by NOW

that's

> soy-free.

>

> If I get the wrong supplement, I can't afford to throw it out.

MOST of

> the time, I figure a supplement that's not EXACTLY right is better

than

> none at all. However, when it comes time for me to order more, I

make

> sure to re-evaluate my choices. I can get almost everything I need

from

> Vitaglo. I don't know how their international shipping rates stack

up to

> iHerb, but if they're comparable, it might be a better choice.

>

> Good luck!

>

> in IN

>

Thanks for that ...I will have a look at their website! The

vitamins in the US are so cheap compared to our 'Down Under' prices

but yes the shipping is sometimes more than the products!!!

Especially at Dr Ron's....$52 postage for two 237ml cod liver oils &

a jar of vit e!!! I figure you cannot put a price on your health so I

continue to rack up the credit card & tell myself I will deal with

the debt later when I'm healthy!!

Kelley

February 22, 2007

> >

> > Hello Bee and everyone,

> >

> > I've been trying to get a reliable vitamin A supplement here in

> > Australia, but so far haven't been successful. To get my vitamin

A, I've been relying on my cod liver oil and foods. Is it okay to

double my cod liver oil intake (to two teaspoons of Blue Ice per day

instead of just one) to up my vitamin A. Or will I be getting too

much vitamin

> > D. Is too much vitamin D a worry? How much is too much?

> >

> > I appreciate your help here and could you point me in the right

> > direction to research this.

==>Hi, I'll have to get back to you later when I have more time, but

do a search of our message archives because I think I posted a

message recently about maximum amounts of vitamin D and omega 3.

Also if you enter your foods in www.fitday.com you might find you are

getting plenty of vitamin A from foods depending upon what you are

eating.

Bee

March 29, 2007

In a message dated 3/29/2007 2:49:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

nowyoga@... writes:

Group,

While it seems that some people do have problems with excess Vitamin D,

there is also lots of research that shows that for the majority of people

Vitamin D is important and supplementation may be necessary. So before

going to extremes of either cutting it out or majorly supplementing, get

your levels checked to find out what is appropriate for you.

Take care,

Ute

http://cholecalciferol-council.com/

Indeed I had read a few articles about people with RA often being seriously

deficient in Vitamin D. I had the test done and learned I was seriously

deficient. I have felt better since taking some large doses over several weeks

time. According to what I've read the optimun level is around 50, norms are

30-100, and I was around 12.

Jill

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

March 30, 2007

Hi Jill,the test for vit.D should be done by Quest labs and they have to

get the blood sample frozen.Then they check the ratio of 1,25 D and

25d.The ratio is the important thing and it should be below 10.The vit D

thing swings both ways,many are too high and many are too low so it is

imperative to have a proper test.By the way vit.D is only one atom of

hydrogen different from prednisone and often that is why it makes us

feel better.....at least that is what I have read. Lynne G./SD

Jknitl@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 3/29/2007 2:49:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> nowyoga@... <mailto:nowyoga%40earthlink.net> writes:

>

> Group,

> While it seems that some people do have problems with excess Vitamin D,

> there is also lots of research that shows that for the majority of people

> Vitamin D is important and supplementation may be necessary. So before

> going to extremes of either cutting it out or majorly supplementing, get

> your levels checked to find out what is appropriate for you.

> Take care,

> Ute

>

> http://cholecalciferol-council.com/ <http://cholecalciferol-council.com/>

>

> Indeed I had read a few articles about people with RA often being

> seriously

> deficient in Vitamin D. I had the test done and learned I was seriously

> deficient. I have felt better since taking some large doses over

> several weeks

> time. According to what I've read the optimun level is around 50,

> norms are

> 30-100, and I was around 12.

>

> Jill

>

> ************************************** See what's free at

> http://www.aol.com. <http://www.aol.com.>

>

March 30, 2007

Yes I had the test done by Quest, I had read which one should be done and

took a pprint out to the doctor's office so they would do the right one. The

results came back that I was seriously deficient and I don't doubt that a bit

because I'm very fair skinned and have always avoided the sun. What's more,

I'm not much of a milk drinker or bread eater so I'm not getting a lot from

food most likely.

Jill

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

March 30, 2007

Hi Jill, That makes sense.Do you remember what your ratio was.I am

desperately trying to get mine down,don't eat any but do work in a

greenhouse and have an olive complexion.Many people with chronic

diseaseare very low in 25D but high in 1,25 which makes the ratio even

more alarming

Jknitl@... wrote:

> Yes I had the test done by Quest, I had read which one should be done and

> took a pprint out to the doctor's office so they would do the right

> one. The

> results came back that I was seriously deficient and I don't doubt

> that a bit

> because I'm very fair skinned and have always avoided the sun. What's

> more,

> I'm not much of a milk drinker or bread eater so I'm not getting a lot

> from

> food most likely.

> Jill

>

> ************************************** See what's free at

> http://www.aol.com. <http://www.aol.com.>

>

March 30, 2007

I got tested for one of those vitamin D's but don't recall which one and it was

right in the middle. I am wondering if even if we took in more Vit D and got

both types in the right amounts, it won't reverse anything will it? I don't want

to bug my doctor again about it if it will ultimately make no difference. I want

my secretions back because I am so miserable with this Sjogren's and so far I

have only talked to 1.5 people who were helped with AP therapy who have this

disease. One who has had some success but is not out of the woods at all and one

that is doing very well. But that is not much to go by, I wish there were more

people who can say their eyes, mouth, throat, nose etc... are not as dry anymore

after using all those antibiotics that are not without risk. I am talking about

this because I was under the impression this board was about treating AI disease

with AP therapy.

lynneandsantos <lynneandsantos@...> wrote:

Hi Jill, That makes sense.Do you remember what your ratio was.I am

desperately trying to get mine down,don't eat any but do work in a

greenhouse and have an olive complexion.Many people with chronic

diseaseare very low in 25D but high in 1,25 which makes the ratio even

more alarming

Jknitl@... wrote:

> Yes I had the test done by Quest, I had read which one should be done and

> took a pprint out to the doctor's office so they would do the right

> one. The

> results came back that I was seriously deficient and I don't doubt

> that a bit

> because I'm very fair skinned and have always avoided the sun. What's

> more,

> I'm not much of a milk drinker or bread eater so I'm not getting a lot

> from

> food most likely.

> Jill

>

> ************************************** See what's free at

> http://www.aol.com. <http://www.aol.com.>

>

March 30, 2007

Hi Vicki;

There are not 2 types of D,it is what your body does with it.Read up

on it at www.marshall-protocol.com They have tried to explain it in

plain English but it is still very hard to comprehend unless you have a

great science background.Dr .Marshall is a molecular biologist who was

working in cancer and diabetis research until he came down with

Sarcoidosis.It took him several years to figure out how vit.D affect the

body. Lynne

Vicki wrote:

> I got tested for one of those vitamin D's but don't recall which one

> and it was right in the middle. I am wondering if even if we took in

> more Vit D and got both types in the right amounts, it won't reverse

> anything will it? I don't want to bug my doctor again about it if it

> will ultimately make no difference. I want my secretions back because

> I am so miserable with this Sjogren's and so far I have only talked to

> 1.5 people who were helped with AP therapy who have this disease. One

> who has had some success but is not out of the woods at all and one

> that is doing very well. But that is not much to go by, I wish there

> were more people who can say their eyes, mouth, throat, nose etc...

> are not as dry anymore after using all those antibiotics that are not

> without risk. I am talking about this because I was under the

> impression this board was about treating AI disease with AP therapy.

>

> lynneandsantos <lynneandsantos@...

> <mailto:lynneandsantos%40citenet.net>> wrote:

> Hi Jill, That makes sense.Do you remember what your ratio was.I am

> desperately trying to get mine down,don't eat any but do work in a

> greenhouse and have an olive complexion.Many people with chronic

> diseaseare very low in 25D but high in 1,25 which makes the ratio even

> more alarming

>

> Jknitl@... <mailto:Jknitl%40aol.com> wrote:

>

> > Yes I had the test done by Quest, I had read which one should be

> done and

> > took a pprint out to the doctor's office so they would do the right

> > one. The

> > results came back that I was seriously deficient and I don't doubt

> > that a bit

> > because I'm very fair skinned and have always avoided the sun. What's

> > more,

> > I'm not much of a milk drinker or bread eater so I'm not getting a lot

> > from

> > food most likely.

> > Jill

> >

> > ************************************** See what's free at

> > http://www.aol.com. <http://www.aol.com.> <http://www.aol.com.

> <http://www.aol.com.>>

> >

March 30, 2007

Hi Gloria;

You don't know if it will hurt you until you get the proper vit.D

test done.Read about it on the MP site.Never supplement until you know

for sure. Lynne G.

Gloria M. Tate wrote:

> Hi,

> I have been taking 1000mg of vit. D for awhile now because I read that

> it might prevent MS (which my brother has). I am also very fair and

> stay out of the sun and can't eat much dairy because it makes my pain

> worse.

> Will this much vit. D hurt me?

> Thanks,

> Gloria

> ***SPAM*** Re: rheumatic Vitamin D

>

> Hi Vicki;

> There are not 2 types of D,it is what your body does with it.Read up

> on it at www.marshall-protocol.com They have tried to explain it in

> plain English but it is still very hard to comprehend unless you have a

> great science background.Dr .Marshall is a molecular biologist who was

> working in cancer and diabetis research until he came down with

> Sarcoidosis.It took him several years to figure out how vit.D affect the

> body. Lynne

>

> Vicki wrote:

>

> > I got tested for one of those vitamin D's but don't recall which one

> > and it was right in the middle. I am wondering if even if we took in

> > more Vit D and got both types in the right amounts, it won't reverse

> > anything will it? I don't want to bug my doctor again about it if it

> > will ultimately make no difference. I want my secretions back because

> > I am so miserable with this Sjogren's and so far I have only talked to

> > 1.5 people who were helped with AP therapy who have this disease. One

> > who has had some success but is not out of the woods at all and one

> > that is doing very well. But that is not much to go by, I wish there

> > were more people who can say their eyes, mouth, throat, nose etc...

> > are not as dry anymore after using all those antibiotics that are not

> > without risk. I am talking about this because I was under the

> > impression this board was about treating AI disease with AP therapy.

> >

> > lynneandsantos <lynneandsantos@...

> <mailto:lynneandsantos%40citenet.net>

> > <mailto:lynneandsantos%40citenet.net>> wrote:

> > Hi Jill, That makes sense.Do you remember what your ratio was.I am

> > desperately trying to get mine down,don't eat any but do work in a

> > greenhouse and have an olive complexion.Many people with chronic

> > diseaseare very low in 25D but high in 1,25 which makes the ratio even

> > more alarming

> >

> > Jknitl@... <mailto:Jknitl%40aol.com> <mailto:Jknitl%40aol.com>

> wrote:

> >

> > > Yes I had the test done by Quest, I had read which one should be

> > done and

> > > took a pprint out to the doctor's office so they would do the right

> > > one. The

> > > results came back that I was seriously deficient and I don't doubt

> > > that a bit

> > > because I'm very fair skinned and have always avoided the sun. What's

> > > more,

> > > I'm not much of a milk drinker or bread eater so I'm not getting a lot

> > > from

> > > food most likely.

> > > Jill

> > >

> > > ************************************** See what's free at

> > > http://www.aol.com. <http://www.aol.com.> <http://www.aol.com.

> <http://www.aol.com.>> <http://www.aol.com. <http://www.aol.com.>

> > <http://www.aol.com. <http://www.aol.com.>>>

> > >

April 2, 2007

In a message dated 4/2/2007 3:31:46 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

writes:

_Re: Benicar - Marshall Protocol ?'s _

( /message/74659;_ylc=X3oDMTJvMzgwcWduBF9TA\

zk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzczODQEZ3Jwc3BJZA

MxNzA1MTA2MDEyBG1zZ0lkAzc0NjU5BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzExNzU1MDk4NjM-

)

I disagree with that his D levels optimized when taking vitamin D in

cod liver oil.

For one thing, the variability of 1,25D tests is too large for any

conclusions from the change he reported and even if it did go down (rather than

being

due to lab error), this might be due to the anti inflammatory

immunosuppressive effects of the increase in 25D due to the cod liver oil. So,

I don't

regard this situation as optimal by any means.

See:

_***Vit. D

http://autoimmunityresearch.org/transcripts/waterhouse_lax2006.pdf_

(http://autoimmunityresearch.org/transcripts/waterhouse_lax2006.pdf)

or _http://members.aol.com/SynergyHN/vitd_

(http://members.aol.com/SynergyHN/vitd) for more details on this.

Joyce W.

April 3, 2007

Ok, well since I don't like to be violently (in my mind or wherever)

resistant to other viewpoints, and my intention is purely to look at

things in the most healing manner possible, and get people further on

that path, let's talk more about the issue, if that is possible. I

really don't care about being right or wrong, disagreeing or

agreeing...I tend to simply believe what appears to be the most solid

evidence I'm presented with (lab tests in this case), and generally

things more observable in nature rather than observable in a

laboratory. Though yes, the test levels were taken by getting my blood

and doing some process on it in a lab unbeknownst to me.

You are saying: " the variability of 1,25D tests is too large for any

> conclusions from the change he reported " . This still applies even

observing all three levels here:

25 hydroxy

11/28/05: 33 ng/mL Close to severe deficiency

6/01/06: 59 ng/mL Above optimal

12/14/06: 41 ng/mL Below Optimal

Optimal range=45-50 ng/ml or 115-128 nmol/l

This is the optimal range from mercola.com , I believe the same range

used by 'the vitamin D council'. It seems this is pretty well

established as the range you need for optimal health. I tend to

believe and go with things that are observed in optimally healthy people.

1,25 dihydroxy

11/28/05: 64 pg/mL

6/01/06: 53 pg/mL

12/14/06: 34 pg/mL

almost half the original level, in a little over a year.

Cod liver oil was taken between 11/05 and 6/06.

I thought at first you were saying the change from 64 to 53 was just a

matter of lab variability. Sounds like an ok assumption to me. But

dropping to almost half? That seems a little more than a

coincidence/false information or something inconclusive. If I were to

get the tests done another time and the 1,25 level was still a good

bit lower than the 25 level, and if 1,25 has gone done or stayed

relatively the same, might that change your mind at all?

" this might be due to the anti inflammatory

> immunosuppressive effects of the increase in 25D due to the cod

liver oil. "

wait, you're saying storage form vitamin D is immunosuppressive? Why?

I don't know anything about that, but it doesn't sound correct to me,

and I don't think there is a person in the entire scientific community

who would deny that vitamin D is a nutrient. Are nutrients

immunosuppressive? I suppose they could be, but that doesn't really

add up in my mind.

yes, I appreciate a common sense viewpoint to things, but can also

realize it can at times skew the end result.

In regards to anti-inflammatory effects, would that not be a good thing?

Now, isn't is possible that a leap in logic is being made on the

" immunosuppressive " part- equating anti-inflammatory with

immunosuppressive when such is not necessarily the case?

I suppose it's possible I need to simply shut up since I haven't spent

years in a lab studying this, but I tend to go with a common sense,

logical approach...which in this case, in my mind, seems to be

overriding complex scientific viewpoints (which oftentimes are subject

to interpretation anyway it would appear).

I have not at this time seen any reason to think that a range of 45-50

or even higher of 25OH is to be considered anything less than

optimally healthy, much less immunosuppressive.

Doesn't it not make a lot of sense to call something regarded by all

(that I'm aware of) to be a necessary nutrient as immunosuppressive?

That's what it seems to me at this point, but I'm open to points there.

>

> In a message dated 4/2/2007 3:31:46 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

> writes:

>

> _Re: Benicar - Marshall Protocol ?'s _

>

( /message/74659;_ylc=X3oDMTJvMzgwcWduBF9TA\

zk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzczODQEZ3Jwc3BJZA

>

MxNzA1MTA2MDEyBG1zZ0lkAzc0NjU5BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzExNzU1MDk4NjM-

> )

>

> I disagree with that his D levels optimized when taking

vitamin D in

> cod liver oil.

>

> For one thing, the variability of 1,25D tests is too large for any

> conclusions from the change he reported and even if it did go down

(rather than being

> due to lab error), this might be due to the anti inflammatory

> immunosuppressive effects of the increase in 25D due to the cod

liver oil. So, I don't

> regard this situation as optimal by any means.

>

> See:

>

> _***Vit. D

> http://autoimmunityresearch.org/transcripts/waterhouse_lax2006.pdf_

(http://autoimmunityresearch.org/transcripts/waterhouse_lax2006.pdf)

>

> or _http://members.aol.com/SynergyHN/vitd_

> (http://members.aol.com/SynergyHN/vitd) for more details on this.

>

> Joyce W.

>

April 4, 2007

,

Glad you are still open minded on this.

The changes in 25D are probably real ones and not lab error, since their lab

variability is less. The larger change in 1,25D is probably a real one,

though the smaller one may not be.

To understand about why new research indicates high 25D is immunosuppressive

(anti inflammatory to the degree that it is harmful in the long run), you

will need to consult this:

_***Vit. D http://autoimmunityresearch.org/transcripts/w

aterhouse_lax2006.pdf_

(http://autoimmunityresearch.org/transcripts/waterhouse_lax2006.pdf)

Vitamin D is really a misnomer (see this book intro:

_Vitamin D: New Research_

(https://www.novapublishers.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=4130)

It was given the name " vitamin " for historical reasons. The active

hormonal form can be produced by the body. Both 25D and 1,25D are very close

in

structure to steroids (they are called secosteroids) and the research mentioned

above indicates they have effects on many other hormones.

Read the above link to find out why there is a problem with many research

studies on vitamin D. Two new studies in cancer have found now that high 25D

was associated with higher cancer rates (one mentioned at the above link and

this newer one: see : Cancer Res. 2006 Oct 15;66(20):10213-9.

Comment in: Cancer Res. 2006 Oct 15;66(20):9802-3.

A prospective nested case-control study of vitamin D status and pancreatic

cancer risk in male smokers.

Stolzenberg- RZ et al: They state: â€œHigher vitamin D concentrations

were associated with a 3-fold increased risk for pancreatic cancer.â€

Most previous studies didn't actually measure 25D but looked at things like

where the person lived.

Joyce

In a message dated 4/4/2007 4:03:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

writes:

_Re: vitamin D _

( /message/74669;_ylc=X3oDMTJvdjdiYW1rBF9TA\

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Azc0NjY5BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzExNzU2ODQ1NTk-)

Posted by: " Brown " _archossecutor87@... _

(mailto:archossecutor87@...?Subject= Re:%20vitamin%20D) _archossecutor87 _

(archossecutor87)

Tue Apr 3, 2007 4:33 am (PST)