Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 In a message dated 3/19/2006 7:53:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, handwritingrepair@... writes: Indeed, the Bible states somewhere-or-other (I don't have time to lookit up right now) that God doesn't like people doing wickedly in God'sname (but what about all the times that the Bible has God tellingpeople to do things like massacring everyone in town but virgin girlsand then saving the virgin girls for themselves? Or that time whenElijah killed pagan prophets after he beat them in amy-God-answers-more-prayer-than-your-God contest?) This would be the Commandement against taking God's name in vain. It doesn't mean not using God's name as a curseword, though that is part of it. I primarily means not swearing to something in the name of God. We come very close to violating this in our court system by saying "so help me God". If we said, "I swear in the name of God (or by God)," then it would be a violation. Doing something bad and claiming God said to do it would also be a violation. As for those things you mention. Yes, bad things were done sometimes. That was the nature of war at the time. When nations clashes, it was a brutal thing with cities razed and the people slaughtered. Defeated armies didn't just surrender, they had to run away or be killed, and keep running because they would be pursued and hunted with the victors kill all they could catch. However, I think some of those accounts come off as worse than they appear. If you read beyond those accounts, you will see mention of the defeated people still living in the lands in great numbers. This is attested to by all the admonitions against associating with them, marrying with them and worshipping their gods. A few cities probably were put to the sword in order to destroy the enemy's power base, but most of the people did not live in the cities and lived. Still, it is a nasty way to fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 "This" would apply to your part: Indeed, the Bible states somewhere-or-other (I don't have time to lookit up right now) that God doesn't like people doing wickedly in God'sname. As to why God told them to do these things, that is a bit of a mystery. My belief is that they were told to do these things because that was how war was waged in those days. If the Israelites "played nice," then their enemies would have destroyed them. They were not strong enough at that time to have frightened their enemies from attacking them. Later they were, for a time, but later were defeated when their faith declined. How does this mesh with a compassionate God? It meshes perfectly. Most people these days only focus on the fuzzy side of God and to forget about the harsh side. That's still there, it hasn't gone away or mellowed just because we humans don't like to think about it. I'll have to look for a quote from C.S. where he describes this very well. Anyway, for the time being we humans have been seeing the softer side pretty much exclusively. I don't know how long that will last, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 (I actually knew a Satanist in graduate school - not a Church of Satan member, but a member of some other Satanist church - " Gnostic Temple " or some such nam. She spent lots of her time working in soup kitchens, literacy projects, anti-drug-abuse programs, " Mothers Against Drunk Driving, " street-cleanup programs to get rid of litter, programs against cruelty to animals, to raise money for job-training for people with disabilities, and similar causes. She did this because, in her belief, God wanted death and vice and cruelty and evil but Satan wanted life and virtue and kindness and good. And I also know that, on at least one occasion, she saved a life. (I learned this from the man whom she had saved.) Her church had very unusual religious teachings. According to those teachings, an evil one called " God " had created the universe as his own private amusement so that he and his friends could have fun throughout eternity watching people and animals go through all sorts of things including horrible suffering. Then (according to those teachings) someone good called " Satan " had rebelled against this, had escaped from " God's " realm, and had vowed to fight back against evil in any way he could. This naturally made " God " angry, so (according to what her church believed) " God " then wrote many statements, books, and messages all designed to make himself look good (including one called " The Bible " ) and started giving these out to all the different groups of people on Earth: not just to make " God " look good, but also to create even more fun for " God " and his pals because the different books/statements/messages all disagreed with one another - so now the different groups of humans could put on an even better show by arguing and even killing each other over the question of who had gotten the right book! She (my Satanist classmate) used to quote a lot of stuff from the various religious scriptures, including the Bible, to prove God's " evilness " as she saw it: for example, the Bible story where God tells soldiers to wipe out the men, women, and boys of an enemy nation but to keep the virgin girls alive for themselves (Numbers 31:18). Question: does a person who does good in the name of Satan rank morally higher, or morally lower, than a person who does evil in the name of God? Yours for better letters, Kate Gladstone Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest handwritingrepair@... http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair 325 South Manning Boulevard Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA telephone 518/482-6763 AND REMEMBER ... you can order books through my site! (Amazon.com link - I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 " Satanism as I said is in spite of religion. I'm not the traditional christian, there are to me things of logic to realize, as would be gathered from any of my posts. A gift in thought is a gift in thought, abstract reasoning in similarities, just how my mind is. I see transparent to all of these things. Satanism is just division. " WRONG. Sorry but this is all a very wrong picture of Satanism, one that's used as propaganda by the church and other groups. Satanism is nothing bad. I have Satanist friends and thgeir rituals carry a lot of similarity to some of my own Pagan school. It's an accepted path in Paganism. None of this crap the church throws out is in any way true. The whole nonsense you see in the press and hear about mentally sick people who sacrifice children or rape people has really nothing to do with Satanism. Those mentally disturbed people use the name as a tool of power, and kids who meet on graveyards and throw over stones only want to be something different. Unofrtunately, this creates problems for true Satanists, as the average member of society has silly horror movies and sensationalist press reports in mind when hearing the word. Much the same as people only see Rainman when hearing the word autism. Just worse. http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm for those who actually want to know more about what it really is. There are more detailed pages, I just can't find them now. I also have to say that I am all a bit intimidated at the moment about all the " god " talk. For me, " god " as a person is just a supersticion (sp?). Lwaxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 " Question: does a person who does good in the name of Satan rank > morally higher, or morally lower, than a person who does evil in the > name of God? " That's a very interesting question - and one that I do not have the answer to - I think somewhere in the Bible it mentions about doing wrong in God's name and I got the impression he wouldn't like that at all (sorry my wording is stuffed tonight). > > (I actually knew a Satanist in graduate school - not a Church of > Satan member, but a member of some other Satanist church - " Gnostic > Temple " or some such nam. She spent lots of her time working in soup > kitchens, literacy projects, anti-drug-abuse programs, " Mothers > Against Drunk Driving, " street-cleanup programs to get rid of litter, > programs against cruelty to animals, to raise money for job-training > for people with disabilities, and similar causes. She did this > because, in her belief, God wanted death and vice and cruelty and evil > but Satan wanted life and virtue and kindness and good. And I also > know that, on at least one occasion, she saved a life. (I learned this > from the man whom she had saved.) > > Her church had very unusual religious teachings. According to those > teachings, an evil one called " God " had created the universe as his > own private amusement so that he and his friends could have fun > throughout eternity watching people and animals go through all sorts > of things including horrible suffering. Then (according to those > teachings) someone good called " Satan " had rebelled against this, had > escaped from " God's " realm, and had vowed to fight back against evil > in any way he could. > This naturally made " God " angry, so (according to what her > church believed) " God " then wrote many statements, books, and messages > all designed to make himself look good (including one called " The > Bible " ) and started giving these out to all the different groups of > people on Earth: not just to make " God " look good, but also to create > even more fun for " God " and his pals because the different > books/statements/messages all disagreed with one another - so now the > different groups of humans could put on an even better show by arguing > and even killing each other over the question of who had gotten the > right book! > She (my Satanist classmate) used to quote a lot of stuff from the > various religious scriptures, including the Bible, to prove God's > " evilness " as she saw it: for example, the Bible story where God tells > soldiers to wipe out the men, women, and boys of an enemy nation but > to keep the virgin girls alive for themselves (Numbers 31:18). > > Question: does a person who does good in the name of Satan rank > morally higher, or morally lower, than a person who does evil in the > name of God? > > > Yours for better letters, > Kate Gladstone > Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest > handwritingrepair@... > http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair > 325 South Manning Boulevard > Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA > telephone 518/482-6763 > AND REMEMBER ... > you can order books through my site! > (Amazon.com link - > I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 It's part of the bible, that is to say satan or lucifer, its a chracter in a book. In addition to it not being real it is of delusion, Satanism in autism politics is division.It was just meant to cuase problems amoung the christians and claim, oh your intolerant of my belief and so on. Peganism is of its own merit and is not satanism unless there psycho-methodological belief is of it by choice.Satanism is divisional, is typically from what I read a teenager belief and likely something that is not going to be of his belief for the rest of his life. LEastu ntil he gathers some sense.I didnt know about any of this stuff prior to being told, I dont even read the forums. It's nonsense and part of a rebelios young lads trouble making .A terrible P.R move in autism politics and really just stupid.The group in question is a point of division in the autism community (conflicts with other groups show its trend, has cuased me enough problems in all good intends. Additionaly its not concerning quality of life and has been known to exclude those with different ideas. They keep those in agreement there and get rid of the others. It matters not really, as there is no movement without lagitament discussion that is two sided and equall. It is of there way, not the hundreds of thousands plus of those with autism spectrum differences. "small patatos", as the saying goes.It goes to show no wonder the reason for there problems, satanism in involved.RIGHT not WRONG, Satanism is a joke. Arania Lawakiro <csparania@...> wrote: "Satanism as I said is in spite of religion. I'm not the traditional christian, there are to me things of logic to realize, as would be gathered from any of my posts. A gift in thought is a gift in thought, abstract reasoning in similarities, just how my mind is. I see transparent to all of these things. Satanism is just division. " WRONG. Sorry but this is all a very wrong picture of Satanism, one that's used as propaganda by the church and other groups. Satanism is nothing bad. I have Satanist friends and thgeir rituals carry a lot of similarity to some of my own Pagan school. It's an accepted path in Paganism. None of this crap the church throws out is in any way true. The whole nonsense you see in the press and hear about mentally sick people who sacrifice children or rape people has really nothing to do with Satanism. Those mentally disturbed people use the name as a tool of power, and kids who meet on graveyards and throw over stones only want to be something different. Unofrtunately, this creates problems for true Satanists, as the average member of society has silly horror movies and sensationalist press reports in mind when hearing the word. Much the same as people only see Rainman when hearing the word autism. Just worse. http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm for those who actually want to know more about what it really is. There are more detailed pages, I just can't find them now. I also have to say that I am all a bit intimidated at the moment about all the "god" talk. For me, "god" as a person is just a supersticion (sp?). Lwaxy New Songhttp://www.aspergershosting.com/audio/Onwah.wma Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Lwaxy: > Satanism is nothing bad. I have Satanist friends and thgeir rituals carry a lot of similarity to some of my own Pagan school. It's an accepted path in Paganism. From the link you posted: "Many Satanists feel that Wiccans are hypocrites, because the latter restrict their work to positive, healing activities. Satanists use magic and other rituals to benefit themselves and their friends, but also are free to use these same rituals to harm their enemies -- persons who have hurt them."Using rituals to harm others is definitely bad in my book - regardless if one thinks they 'deserve' it or not. It is still black magic. Need not be any Hollywood-type of rituals; it takes very little to create and send harmful thoughtforms. We all do that all the time when we get annoyed, but doing so knowingly, willfully and with precision increases our responsibility and the negative consequences it will have for the sender. > None of this crap the church throws out is in any way true. The whole nonsense you see in the press and hear about mentally sick people who sacrifice children or rape people has really nothing to do with Satanism. Those mentally disturbed people use the name as a tool of power, and kids who meet on graveyards and throw over stones only want to be something different.Yes, I'm sure a lot of that is exaggerated in the extreme. >Unfortunately, this creates problems for true Satanists, as the average member of society has silly horror movies and sensationalist press reports in mind when hearing the word. Much the same as people only see Rainman when hearing the word autism. Just worse.So, they are really just harmless, friendly beings that have been grossly misunderstood...? > http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm for those who actually want to know more about what it really is. I've read it before. Have some questions about it:"Religious Satanism is a valid religion, generally followed by adults."How can it be a "valid religion" at the same time as it is anti-religion? "Satan is not closely related to the modern (post 1400 AD) concept of the Christian devil. Satanists view Satan as a pre-Christian life principle which represents the carnal, earthly, and mundane aspects of life.""LaVey seems to have been involved as an advisor in a later movie The Devil's Rain which was released in 1975. He appeared in the movie as a Satanic priest. Some chants and symbols in the movie come from his writings."Why would he be an advisor in a movie about the Devil then? "Names used include Satan, Lucifer, Belial and Leviathan." Now that has explained where the word Lucifer came from, where did the word Satan come from? Those other two were pre-Christian, possibly Babylonian deities, no? Why worship something/someone that one does not believe in? (The word "devil" comes from the word "dia-bol" which is Greek for something like divide/split in two - the opposite of the word "sym-bol" = bring together.) "Ceremonies are pageants, which are used to celebrate a person or element of faith.Magic rituals consist of three types: Lust ritual: sex magic which includes masturbation" Sex rituals is what Grigorij Rasputin got himself involved in. He ended up possessed, mad and distinctly unpleasant. "Compassion ritual to achieve healing or happiness" No problem with that, unless one has first invoked dark entities to help create it or attract them by resonance. True healing and happiness does not come from them. "Destruction ritual (may include sticking pins in a doll; drawing a picture or writing a description of the victim's death; delivering a soliloquy, etc.). Destruction rituals are best performed by a group. If a person targeted by a destruction ritual is not deserving of it, the ritual will not harm them." That MAY be true, but even if it is, that is a very poor excuse. It's still not OK to even attempt it. "Many Satanists from different traditions wear amulets carrying the symbol of the Sigil of Baphomet. This is "a star which contains a goat's head, and surrounding which appear two concentric circles. Between these circles appear five Hebraic characters." The star is an inverted pentagram. Although there have been many similar symbols involving the head of a goat and an inverted pentagram in a circle, this particular configuration is a registered trade mark of the Church of Satan since 1983." And this symbol actually does represent AND attracts dark and destructive entities. Being unaware of that and thinking it just harmless or cool I find scarily naive. I hesitate to use the word evil since I'm not a religious fanatic, but I do belive thare is true darkness, regardless of religion, and that certain symbols have been so infused with a specific type of vibration/consciousness, just like the cross has, that it really does connect one's mind to that sphere if one focuses on it too much. > I also have to say that I am all a bit intimidated at the moment about all the "god" talk. For me, "god" as a person is just a supersticion (sp?)."Superstition" (I think). Feel free to ignore those posts if you do not belive in a "god". Inger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 " Sorry but this is all a very wrong picture of Satanism, one that's used as propaganda by the church and other groups. > > Satanism is nothing bad. " Satanism is bad from a Christian view point. I do not have the wrong picture of Satanists (maybe just different from others)- I have read the Satanic Bible by Anton La Vey and I do know a Satanist too. From a Christian view point it is still wrong - they are against Christianity and agaisnt God - they believe in putting themselves first, making a god of themselves. Their most important holy day is their birthday. I am well aware that many Satanists seem rational, nice people and do not go around sacrificing babies and animals etc - but their religion still leads away from God. > > > " Satanism as I said is in spite of religion. I'm not the traditional > christian, there are to me things of logic to realize, as would be > gathered from any of my posts. A gift in thought is a gift in thought, > abstract reasoning in similarities, just how my mind is. I see > transparent to all of these things. > > Satanism is just division. " > > WRONG. > > Sorry but this is all a very wrong picture of Satanism, one that's used > as propaganda by the church and other groups. > > Satanism is nothing bad. I have Satanist friends and thgeir rituals carry > a lot of similarity to some of my own Pagan school. It's an accepted > path in Paganism. None of this crap the church throws out is in any way > true. The whole nonsense you see in the press and hear about mentally > sick people who sacrifice children or rape people has really nothing to > do with Satanism. Those mentally disturbed people use the name as a tool > of power, and kids who meet on graveyards and throw over stones only > want to be something different. > > Unofrtunately, this creates problems for true Satanists, as the average > member of society has silly horror movies and sensationalist press > reports in mind when hearing the word. Much the same as people only see > Rainman when hearing the word autism. Just worse. > > http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm for those who actually > want to know more about what it really is. There are more detailed > pages, I just can't find them now. > > I also have to say that I am all a bit intimidated at the moment about > all the " god " talk. For me, " god " as a person is just a supersticion > (sp?). > > Lwaxy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 " And this symbol actually does represent AND attracts dark and destructive entities. Being unaware of that and thinking it just harmless or cool I find scarily naive. I hesitate to use the word evil since I'm not a religious fanatic, but I do belive thare is true darkness, regardless of religion, and that certain symbols have been so infused with a specific type of vibration/consciousness, just like the cross has, that it really does connect one's mind to that sphere if one focuses on it too much. " What is quite worrying is how mainstream this symbol is becoming. At the moment there are many phycic type style glossy magazines out - one such magazine had a subsribtion gift of a reversed pentagram necklace - I couldn't believe it - surely they knew what that symbolised? > > Lwaxy: > > Satanism is nothing bad. I have Satanist friends and thgeir rituals carry a lot of similarity to some of my own Pagan school. It's an accepted path in Paganism. > > From the link you posted: > " Many Satanists feel that Wiccans are hypocrites, because the latter restrict their work to positive, healing activities. Satanists use magic and other rituals to benefit themselves and their friends, but also are free to use these same rituals to harm their enemies -- persons who have hurt them. " > > Using rituals to harm others is definitely bad in my book - regardless if one thinks they 'deserve' it or not. It is still black magic. Need not be any Hollywood-type of rituals; it takes very little to create and send harmful thoughtforms. We all do that all the time when we get annoyed, but doing so knowingly, willfully and with precision increases our responsibility and the negative consequences it will have for the sender. > > > None of this crap the church throws out is in any way true. The whole nonsense you see in the press and hear about mentally sick people who sacrifice children or rape people has really nothing to do with Satanism. Those mentally disturbed people use the name as a tool of power, and kids who meet on graveyards and throw over stones only want to be something different. > > Yes, I'm sure a lot of that is exaggerated in the extreme. > > >Unfortunately, this creates problems for true Satanists, as the average member of society has silly horror movies and sensationalist press reports in mind when hearing the word. Much the same as people only see Rainman when hearing the word autism. Just worse. > > So, they are really just harmless, friendly beings that have been grossly misunderstood...? > > > http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm for those who actually want to know more about what it really is. > > I've read it before. Have some questions about it: > > " Religious Satanism is a valid religion, generally followed by adults. " > > How can it be a " valid religion " at the same time as it is anti- religion? > > " Satan is not closely related to the modern (post 1400 AD) concept of the Christian devil. Satanists view Satan as a pre-Christian life principle which represents the carnal, earthly, and mundane aspects of life. " > > " LaVey seems to have been involved as an advisor in a later movie The Devil's Rain which was released in 1975. He appeared in the movie as a Satanic priest. Some chants and symbols in the movie come from his writings. " > > Why would he be an advisor in a movie about the Devil then? > > " Names used include Satan, Lucifer, Belial and Leviathan. " > > Now that has explained where the word Lucifer came from, where did the word Satan come from? > > Those other two were pre-Christian, possibly Babylonian deities, no? Why worship something/someone that one does not believe in? > > (The word " devil " comes from the word " dia-bol " which is Greek for something like divide/split in two - the opposite of the word " sym- bol " = bring together.) > > " Ceremonies are pageants, which are used to celebrate a person or element of faith. > Magic rituals consist of three types: > Lust ritual: sex magic which includes masturbation " > > Sex rituals is what Grigorij Rasputin got himself involved in. He ended up possessed, mad and distinctly unpleasant. > > " Compassion ritual to achieve healing or happiness " > > No problem with that, unless one has first invoked dark entities to help create it or attract them by resonance. True healing and happiness does not come from them. > > " Destruction ritual (may include sticking pins in a doll; drawing a picture or writing a description of the victim's death; delivering a soliloquy, etc.). Destruction rituals are best performed by a group. If a person targeted by a destruction ritual is not deserving of it, the ritual will not harm them. " > > That MAY be true, but even if it is, that is a very poor excuse. It's still not OK to even attempt it. > > " Many Satanists from different traditions wear amulets carrying the symbol of the Sigil of Baphomet. This is " a star which contains a goat's head, and surrounding which appear two concentric circles. Between these circles appear five Hebraic characters. " The star is an inverted pentagram. Although there have been many similar symbols involving the head of a goat and an inverted pentagram in a circle, this particular configuration is a registered trade mark of the Church of Satan since 1983. " > > And this symbol actually does represent AND attracts dark and destructive entities. Being unaware of that and thinking it just harmless or cool I find scarily naive. I hesitate to use the word evil since I'm not a religious fanatic, but I do belive thare is true darkness, regardless of religion, and that certain symbols have been so infused with a specific type of vibration/consciousness, just like the cross has, that it really does connect one's mind to that sphere if one focuses on it too much. > > > I also have to say that I am all a bit intimidated at the moment about all the " god " talk. For me, " god " as a person is just a supersticion (sp?). > > " Superstition " (I think). Feel free to ignore those posts if you do not belive in a " god " . > > Inger > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 -Just a brief comment.i have always had a certain admiration for LaVey,but i still feel it is bad to invoke negative energy to harm people.At least he warned people of the danger and that it was not to be done lightly.i don't approve of Satanism,however,even those who claim to follow LaVey's teachings,because too many folks seem to be drawn to the negative stuff and are not deep thinkers like LaVey.He wrote some fine essays on politics,where,if you did not know who he was,he really sounded logical and smart.i used to be a LaVey Satanist,but felt it was just too negative.For many years i have been a Gnostic Christian. Kajira -- In , " Inger Lorelei " <inglori@...> wrote: > > Lwaxy: > > Satanism is nothing bad. I have Satanist friends and thgeir rituals carry a lot of similarity to some of my own Pagan school. It's an accepted path in Paganism. > > From the link you posted: > " Many Satanists feel that Wiccans are hypocrites, because the latter restrict their work to positive, healing activities. Satanists use magic and other rituals to benefit themselves and their friends, but also are free to use these same rituals to harm their enemies -- persons who have hurt them. " > > Using rituals to harm others is definitely bad in my book - regardless if one thinks they 'deserve' it or not. It is still black magic. Need not be any Hollywood-type of rituals; it takes very little to create and send harmful thoughtforms. We all do that all the time when we get annoyed, but doing so knowingly, willfully and with precision increases our responsibility and the negative consequences it will have for the sender. > > > None of this crap the church throws out is in any way true. The whole nonsense you see in the press and hear about mentally sick people who sacrifice children or rape people has really nothing to do with Satanism. Those mentally disturbed people use the name as a tool of power, and kids who meet on graveyards and throw over stones only want to be something different. > > Yes, I'm sure a lot of that is exaggerated in the extreme. > > >Unfortunately, this creates problems for true Satanists, as the average member of society has silly horror movies and sensationalist press reports in mind when hearing the word. Much the same as people only see Rainman when hearing the word autism. Just worse. > > So, they are really just harmless, friendly beings that have been grossly misunderstood...? > > > http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm for those who actually want to know more about what it really is. > > I've read it before. Have some questions about it: > > " Religious Satanism is a valid religion, generally followed by adults. " > > How can it be a " valid religion " at the same time as it is anti- religion? > > " Satan is not closely related to the modern (post 1400 AD) concept of the Christian devil. Satanists view Satan as a pre-Christian life principle which represents the carnal, earthly, and mundane aspects of life. " > > " LaVey seems to have been involved as an advisor in a later movie The Devil's Rain which was released in 1975. He appeared in the movie as a Satanic priest. Some chants and symbols in the movie come from his writings. " > > Why would he be an advisor in a movie about the Devil then? > > " Names used include Satan, Lucifer, Belial and Leviathan. " > > Now that has explained where the word Lucifer came from, where did the word Satan come from? > > Those other two were pre-Christian, possibly Babylonian deities, no? Why worship something/someone that one does not believe in? > > (The word " devil " comes from the word " dia-bol " which is Greek for something like divide/split in two - the opposite of the word " sym- bol " = bring together.) > > " Ceremonies are pageants, which are used to celebrate a person or element of faith. > Magic rituals consist of three types: > Lust ritual: sex magic which includes masturbation " > > Sex rituals is what Grigorij Rasputin got himself involved in. He ended up possessed, mad and distinctly unpleasant. > > " Compassion ritual to achieve healing or happiness " > > No problem with that, unless one has first invoked dark entities to help create it or attract them by resonance. True healing and happiness does not come from them. > > " Destruction ritual (may include sticking pins in a doll; drawing a picture or writing a description of the victim's death; delivering a soliloquy, etc.). Destruction rituals are best performed by a group. If a person targeted by a destruction ritual is not deserving of it, the ritual will not harm them. " > > That MAY be true, but even if it is, that is a very poor excuse. It's still not OK to even attempt it. > > " Many Satanists from different traditions wear amulets carrying the symbol of the Sigil of Baphomet. This is " a star which contains a goat's head, and surrounding which appear two concentric circles. Between these circles appear five Hebraic characters. " The star is an inverted pentagram. Although there have been many similar symbols involving the head of a goat and an inverted pentagram in a circle, this particular configuration is a registered trade mark of the Church of Satan since 1983. " > > And this symbol actually does represent AND attracts dark and destructive entities. Being unaware of that and thinking it just harmless or cool I find scarily naive. I hesitate to use the word evil since I'm not a religious fanatic, but I do belive thare is true darkness, regardless of religion, and that certain symbols have been so infused with a specific type of vibration/consciousness, just like the cross has, that it really does connect one's mind to that sphere if one focuses on it too much. > > > I also have to say that I am all a bit intimidated at the moment about all the " god " talk. For me, " god " as a person is just a supersticion (sp?). > > " Superstition " (I think). Feel free to ignore those posts if you do not belive in a " god " . > > Inger > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 -Just a brief comment.i have always had a certain admiration for LaVey,but i still feel it is bad to invoke negative energy to harm people.At least he warned people of the danger and that it was not to be done lightly.i don't approve of Satanism,however,even those who claim to follow LaVey's teachings,because too many folks seem to be drawn to the negative stuff and are not deep thinkers like LaVey.He wrote some fine essays on politics,where,if you did not know who he was,he really sounded logical and smart.i used to be a LaVey Satanist,but felt it was just too negative.For many years i have been a Gnostic Christian. Kajira -- In , " Inger Lorelei " <inglori@...> wrote: > > Lwaxy: > > Satanism is nothing bad. I have Satanist friends and thgeir rituals carry a lot of similarity to some of my own Pagan school. It's an accepted path in Paganism. > > From the link you posted: > " Many Satanists feel that Wiccans are hypocrites, because the latter restrict their work to positive, healing activities. Satanists use magic and other rituals to benefit themselves and their friends, but also are free to use these same rituals to harm their enemies -- persons who have hurt them. " > > Using rituals to harm others is definitely bad in my book - regardless if one thinks they 'deserve' it or not. It is still black magic. Need not be any Hollywood-type of rituals; it takes very little to create and send harmful thoughtforms. We all do that all the time when we get annoyed, but doing so knowingly, willfully and with precision increases our responsibility and the negative consequences it will have for the sender. > > > None of this crap the church throws out is in any way true. The whole nonsense you see in the press and hear about mentally sick people who sacrifice children or rape people has really nothing to do with Satanism. Those mentally disturbed people use the name as a tool of power, and kids who meet on graveyards and throw over stones only want to be something different. > > Yes, I'm sure a lot of that is exaggerated in the extreme. > > >Unfortunately, this creates problems for true Satanists, as the average member of society has silly horror movies and sensationalist press reports in mind when hearing the word. Much the same as people only see Rainman when hearing the word autism. Just worse. > > So, they are really just harmless, friendly beings that have been grossly misunderstood...? > > > http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm for those who actually want to know more about what it really is. > > I've read it before. Have some questions about it: > > " Religious Satanism is a valid religion, generally followed by adults. " > > How can it be a " valid religion " at the same time as it is anti- religion? > > " Satan is not closely related to the modern (post 1400 AD) concept of the Christian devil. Satanists view Satan as a pre-Christian life principle which represents the carnal, earthly, and mundane aspects of life. " > > " LaVey seems to have been involved as an advisor in a later movie The Devil's Rain which was released in 1975. He appeared in the movie as a Satanic priest. Some chants and symbols in the movie come from his writings. " > > Why would he be an advisor in a movie about the Devil then? > > " Names used include Satan, Lucifer, Belial and Leviathan. " > > Now that has explained where the word Lucifer came from, where did the word Satan come from? > > Those other two were pre-Christian, possibly Babylonian deities, no? Why worship something/someone that one does not believe in? > > (The word " devil " comes from the word " dia-bol " which is Greek for something like divide/split in two - the opposite of the word " sym- bol " = bring together.) > > " Ceremonies are pageants, which are used to celebrate a person or element of faith. > Magic rituals consist of three types: > Lust ritual: sex magic which includes masturbation " > > Sex rituals is what Grigorij Rasputin got himself involved in. He ended up possessed, mad and distinctly unpleasant. > > " Compassion ritual to achieve healing or happiness " > > No problem with that, unless one has first invoked dark entities to help create it or attract them by resonance. True healing and happiness does not come from them. > > " Destruction ritual (may include sticking pins in a doll; drawing a picture or writing a description of the victim's death; delivering a soliloquy, etc.). Destruction rituals are best performed by a group. If a person targeted by a destruction ritual is not deserving of it, the ritual will not harm them. " > > That MAY be true, but even if it is, that is a very poor excuse. It's still not OK to even attempt it. > > " Many Satanists from different traditions wear amulets carrying the symbol of the Sigil of Baphomet. This is " a star which contains a goat's head, and surrounding which appear two concentric circles. Between these circles appear five Hebraic characters. " The star is an inverted pentagram. Although there have been many similar symbols involving the head of a goat and an inverted pentagram in a circle, this particular configuration is a registered trade mark of the Church of Satan since 1983. " > > And this symbol actually does represent AND attracts dark and destructive entities. Being unaware of that and thinking it just harmless or cool I find scarily naive. I hesitate to use the word evil since I'm not a religious fanatic, but I do belive thare is true darkness, regardless of religion, and that certain symbols have been so infused with a specific type of vibration/consciousness, just like the cross has, that it really does connect one's mind to that sphere if one focuses on it too much. > > > I also have to say that I am all a bit intimidated at the moment about all the " god " talk. For me, " god " as a person is just a supersticion (sp?). > > " Superstition " (I think). Feel free to ignore those posts if you do not belive in a " god " . > > Inger > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Indeed, the Bible states somewhere-or-other (I don't have time to look it up right now) that God doesn't like people doing wickedly in God's name (but what about all the times that the Bible has God telling people to do things like massacring everyone in town but virgin girls and then saving the virgin girls for themselves? Or that time when Elijah killed pagan prophets after he beat them in a my-God-answers-more-prayer-than-your-God contest?) And the Bible doesn't say a word (as far as I know) against people like that mom I knew who did virtuously in Satan's name ... Some folks have said that we need to tell children to believe in God so that they will act virtuously. To me, this sounds like telling people to believe something *not* because it actually holds true but for some different reason. Yours for better letters, Kate Gladstone Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest handwritingrepair@... http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair 325 South Manning Boulevard Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA telephone 518/482-6763 AND REMEMBER ... you can order books through my site! (Amazon.com link - I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 " Many Satanists feel that Wiccans are hypocrites, because the latter restrict their work to positive, healing activities. Satanists use magic and other rituals to benefit themselves and their friends, but also are free to use these same rituals to harm their enemies -- persons who have hurt them. " Yes, Wiccan is mostly a joke. to me, anyway, because it's a new way of defining paganism that tries to come over as ancient wisdom, which it is not. There are, of cours,e plenty of wicca who know this and are adapting to it, but there are also plenty who think they are the only true branch of Paganism. I use magic to benefit myself and my friends. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you harm no one else. After all, no one else will take care of me first place. I'm constantly treated as nonexistent by most people. And of course I fight my enemies, no matter if with magic or not. Someone attacks me, they'll be sorry, and it matters little if this is a physical attack or a magic attack. The idea of " harming " others is usually the last straw, when nothing else works and they don't leave you alone. " It is still black magic. " There is no such things as " black magic " or " white magic. " Same as there is no such thing as the Dark Side or the Light Side of the Force (for the SW fans out there. The only thing that matters is your intention. Your intention can only be " bad " if you disregard your own wellbeing and safety by being the initiating a conflict, or want to take from someone else for just your own gain. In this world, everything bad you do, as in, whith bad intentions, always comes back to you. But the Force as such is neutral. " We all do that all the time when we get annoyed, but doing so knowingly, willfully and with precision increases our responsibility and the negative consequences it will have for the sender. " Exactly, why is why no true Satanist (or whatever school) would risk such a feedback without a very good reason. If you find someone doing a ritual to remove his boss, for example, you can be sure that the boss is really unbearable and has not only caused hell for himself but also for others at the work place. And still, even with no bad intentions, there WILL be feedback. The question is always how much you are willing to pay, and the backlash can be very unpredictable. " So, they are really just harmless, friendly beings that have been grossly misunderstood...? " Why do people always need to be friendly? I sure am not, usually, and plenty of Aspies can't come over friendly either. But yeah, Satanists are badly misunderstood. Thanks to Hollywood mostly, which is what the whole lets-mess-up-a-graveyard wannabe Satanists seem to base their " believes " on. I'd also like " harmless " to be defined. I'm not harmless, I never was and don't want to be. Beind harmless, as a person, invited abuse in my experience. You need to be able to bring harm to those attacking you if it is needed, or you may end up dead. Anyone ever got attacked on the streets (and I was several times) will know that. But Satanism as such is a harmless religion as in them not bringing trouble to society any more than Christianity does. How can it be a " valid religion " at the same time as it is anti-religion? " Problem of definition. If we see religion as something spiritual, then Satanism (and some other beliefs and value systems) are clearly religions. Yet if we define religion by dogmas and clear, for everyone binding rules and definitions, Satanism is no religion. Nor is buddhism in this case. " Why would he be an advisor in a movie about the Devil then? " Money and fame, why else ) " Now that has explained where the word Lucifer came from, where did the word Satan come from? " Must have missed that mail, but Lucifer is the bringer of light, and enlightenment. Satan means accuser or adversary. " Why worship something/someone that one does not believe in? " Satanists do not really worship anything. Satan is an archetype, not a single person. A " worship " uses archetypes to invoke your own piece of enlightenment, your very own power. Many religions actually do this. " Sex rituals is what Grigorij Rasputin got himself involved in. He ended up possessed, mad and distinctly unpleasant. " So what? I've seen Christians end up completely delusional and obsessed by their faith. I even have an aunt like that. " That MAY be true, but even if it is, that is a very poor excuse. It's still not OK to even attempt it. " And just why not? It's part of the karma rule, or energy rule. What is also not said here is that it is basically a must that you do such rituals in groups. A single person may have personal issues and not be objective and thus get backlashes. " And this symbol actually does represent AND attracts dark and destructive entities. " Only if you have no fing clue what you are doing while believing the amulet does something. As most people who buy such amulets do it to be somwewhat dark, it's easy for darker forces to be attrackted to it. If you don't even know what a symbol is and don't care, nothing will ever happen, unless the amulet has formerly been embedded. Spirits are never EVER attracted just by a form alone. This is an old myth. Even an amulet with a supposed dark symbol can be the perfect light protector. a symbol alonme never matters. The idea and intentions behind it does. " I do belive thare is true darkness, regardless of religion " Darkness in itself is nothing bad and has nada to do with evil. It is a lo harder to control dark stuff because you literally cannot see and need to feel your way through, and emotions are always dangerous to work with. But, essentially, all energies are neutral. " that certain symbols have been so infused with a specific type of vibration/consciousness, just like the cross has, that it really does connect one's mind to that sphere if one focuses on it too much. " Yes. Focusses on it too much - exactly. But I have seen crosses before that were what you might call possessed with bad energies. It is not a general rule. " Feel free to ignore those posts if you do not belive in a " god " . " Tried to, but it is still disturbing seeing them in my mailbox. Christian spam and pressure in RL is so bad where I live I would really wish I'd be safe from it every now and then. Lwaxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Re: Re: >where did > the word Satan come from? In Hebrew it means " accuser " or " opponent " - Biblical Hebrew used it to mean the " prosecuting attorney " in a court trial (think of the Book of Job, where God's court of Angels has Satan among them, trying to prove Job guilty) Re this Satanic emblem - > " a star which contains a goat's head, and > surrounding which appear two concentric circles. Between these circles > appear five Hebraic characters. " The five Hebrew letters spell out " leviatan " - the Hebrew word for " whale. " I have absolutely no idea why the Satanists think it makes sense to write the Hebrew word for " whale " around the outside of a star containing a goat's head. (And, no, my old acquaintance the do-gooding Satanist-church mom couldn't tell me either - her particular Satanist church/sect/denomination didn't use that symbol.) Yours for better letters, Kate Gladstone Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest handwritingrepair@... http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair 325 South Manning Boulevard Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA telephone 518/482-6763 AND REMEMBER ... you can order books through my site! (Amazon.com link - I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Re: > This would be the Commandement against taking God's name in vain. What does " this " refer to? To Elijah challenging the pagans to a sort of " God-versus-God " showdown? (Bible: First Book of Kings, Chapter 18) Or to the pagans accepting the challenge? > As for those things you mention. Yes, bad things were done sometimes. That > was the nature of war at the time. ... Still, it is a nasty way to fight. Yes - especially when the people fighting in this way have a book that states that God told them to fight in this way. Yours for better letters, Kate Gladstone Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest handwritingrepair@... http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair 325 South Manning Boulevard Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA telephone 518/482-6763 AND REMEMBER ... you can order books through my site! (Amazon.com link - I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 " There is no such things as " black magic " or " white magic. " Same as there is no such thing as the Dark Side or the Light Side of the Force (for the SW fans out there. " Father Armoth, the respected exorcist would agree with you: AMORTH: There is no distinction between white and black magic. When magic works, it is al- ways the work of the Devil. All the forms of occultism, such as mass recourse to Eastern religious with all their esoteric connotations, are an open door for the Devil. And so he comes in. Immediately. I had no hesitation in saying that there was direct intervention by the Devil in the case of the nun murdered in Chiavenna (for which three teenage girls have been charged) and in the case of and , the teenagers of Novi Ligure, North Italy (, 16, is currently being held in a Milan detention center on suspicion of murdering her mother and 10-year-old brother, with the complicity of her boyfriend, , 17). Those kids were devoted to Satanism. Police in their enquiries found that, in both these cases, these youngsters were followers of Satan. They had Satanic books. How does the Devil go about seducing men and women? AMORTH: His strategy is monotonous. I have told him so and he admits it … He convinces people that there is no hell, that there is no sin, just one more experience to live. Lust, success and power are the three great passions on which the Devil insists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 " There is no such things as " black magic " or " white magic. " Same as there is no such thing as the Dark Side or the Light Side of the Force (for the SW fans out there. " Father Armoth, the respected exorcist would agree with you: AMORTH: There is no distinction between white and black magic. When magic works, it is al- ways the work of the Devil. All the forms of occultism, such as mass recourse to Eastern religious with all their esoteric connotations, are an open door for the Devil. And so he comes in. Immediately. I had no hesitation in saying that there was direct intervention by the Devil in the case of the nun murdered in Chiavenna (for which three teenage girls have been charged) and in the case of and , the teenagers of Novi Ligure, North Italy (, 16, is currently being held in a Milan detention center on suspicion of murdering her mother and 10-year-old brother, with the complicity of her boyfriend, , 17). Those kids were devoted to Satanism. Police in their enquiries found that, in both these cases, these youngsters were followers of Satan. They had Satanic books. How does the Devil go about seducing men and women? AMORTH: His strategy is monotonous. I have told him so and he admits it … He convinces people that there is no hell, that there is no sin, just one more experience to live. Lust, success and power are the three great passions on which the Devil insists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Tom, quoting: " AMORTH: All the forms of occultism, such as mass recourse to Eastern religious with all their esoteric connotations, are an open door for the Devil. " This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Eastern religions are ligitimate religions, just as much as Christianity is. Esotericism is nothing sinister either, since it only explains how the universe works, gives rational explanations that make it less difficult for an intelligent person to understand and accept the concept of a spiritual reality, and encourages goodness, responsibility and spiritual development. I do agree though, that dark elements have a tendency to try to weasel their way into for example the New Age movement, by promoting magic as something harmless or fun. (Any serious esoteric student knows to stay well away from such things.) I also see a lot of satanic symbolism in Heavy Metal, as well as in children's cartoons, and the latter I find particular distasteful and unnecessary. I often cannot watch children's films because of the excess focus on demons and monsters in them. Don't understand how they can be permitted to air such things for children. Inger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 The Bible states that God had the Israelis inflict horrible casualties on their enemies to show these nations they conquered which nation (Israel) was supported by God, and what God could do for a people that believed in Him. Many times, over and over again, God would tell the Israelis that their army was too big and to halve or even reduce in greater numbers their armies so that their might, as granted by God, could be witnessed by the opposition. There are stories of hundreds of Israelis killing thousands of the oponent, and this was due to the oponent continually defying the Israelis, and therefore God, since the Israelis were God's chosen people. Tom Administrator My belief is that they were told to do these things because that was how war was waged in those days. If the Israelites " played nice, " then their enemies would have destroyed them. They were not strong enough at that time to have frightened their enemies from attacking them. Later they were, for a time, but later were defeated when their faith declined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Just wanted to let you know who " THIS GUY " is. He is perhaps the most knowledgeable exorcist in the Holy Roman Catholic Church today. He is Rome's Chief Exorcist, Father e Amorth. You also ought to understand that from the perspective of the Catholic Church, and many Christian churches as well, all other religions, save Judaism, from which stems Christianity, are null and void as religions. His stating that... " All the forms of occultism, such as mass recourse to Eastern religious with all their esoteric connotations, are an open door for the Devil. " are in accordance with the principles of the Christian faith which believes that any religion that denies Jesus as the Christ and the Christian God as the one true God are " from the Devil. " The reason for this opinion of other faiths is that such theologies espouse beliefs inconsistent with what is stated in the Bible. Esoteric teachings, for example, claim that sections regarding reincarnation, and the instructions for how man can perform miracles, were cut out of the Bible. The Christian Church takes issue with this. Because esoteric teachings believe in reincarnation, and other subjects not at all mentioned in any chapter or verse of the Bible (in either the Catholic Bible or the Protestant Bible which include different books in some portions), and because no mention of certain esoteric principles are mentioned in books discarded or not included from either version of the Bible, and because certain esoteric principles are mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and because certain esoteric principles are not mentioned in any surviving historic document from the time of Christ or from and surviving documents predating the time of Christ, and because no such documentation has ever been presented by those practising esoteric belief systems to back up the validity of esoteric teachings, the Church assumes that such esoteric teachings are sheer fabrication, that they are anti-Christian because they do not follow the precise teachings of Christ, and they are " from the Devil " for these reasons and will remain thought of in that regard until such evidence can be provided to prove otherwise. And so while " THIS GUY " may not sound like he knows what he is talking about, or, while " THIS GUY " may sound like he is being derrogatory, he is, in reality merely espousing the exact and specific beliefs of the Catholic Church. No more, no less. Certainly if people who practised esoteric theology would present some sort of evidence to the Church they would examine it and either integrate it into itself if it was truthful, or reject its falsehood if it were false. Tom Administrator Tom, quoting: " AMORTH: All the forms of occultism, such as mass recourse to Eastern religious with all their esoteric connotations, are an open door for the Devil. " Inger responding: This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Eastern religions are ligitimate religions, just as much as Christianity is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 If this is the terrible " Satanism " depicted here in long threads, I'll be glad to join them any time! I've studied this a whole lot in conjunction with the neanderthal theory. Seems like Judaism, Christianity and Islam are examples of religions whose main purpose is to oppress women. Not only that, they are no more than primitive male primate instincts made holy in the name of a God. That's why people go out in war in the name of God, to kill male enemies and rape their women. Many primates do this regulary as " take-overs " . No better than Bonnies stories, IMHO. If Tom wants all of us to take actions against Satanism and BDSM, I propose we must all take actions against religious wars, conflicts based on religion, and every other abuse we see in the name of this-or-that religion. Leif pagan Kate: > (I actually knew a Satanist in graduate school - not a Church of > Satan member, but a member of some other Satanist church - " Gnostic > Temple " or some such nam. She spent lots of her time working in soup > kitchens, literacy projects, anti-drug-abuse programs, " Mothers > Against Drunk Driving, " street-cleanup programs to get rid of litter, > programs against cruelty to animals, to raise money for job-training > for people with disabilities, and similar causes. She did this > because, in her belief, God wanted death and vice and cruelty and evil > but Satan wanted life and virtue and kindness and good. And I also > know that, on at least one occasion, she saved a life. (I learned this > from the man whom she had saved.) > > Her church had very unusual religious teachings. According to those > teachings, an evil one called " God " had created the universe as his > own private amusement so that he and his friends could have fun > throughout eternity watching people and animals go through all sorts > of things including horrible suffering. Then (according to those > teachings) someone good called " Satan " had rebelled against this, had > escaped from " God's " realm, and had vowed to fight back against evil > in any way he could. > This naturally made " God " angry, so (according to what her > church believed) " God " then wrote many statements, books, and messages > all designed to make himself look good (including one called " The > Bible " ) and started giving these out to all the different groups of > people on Earth: not just to make " God " look good, but also to create > even more fun for " God " and his pals because the different > books/statements/messages all disagreed with one another - so now the > different groups of humans could put on an even better show by arguing > and even killing each other over the question of who had gotten the > right book! > She (my Satanist classmate) used to quote a lot of stuff from the > various religious scriptures, including the Bible, to prove God's > " evilness " as she saw it: for example, the Bible story where God tells > soldiers to wipe out the men, women, and boys of an enemy nation but > to keep the virgin girls alive for themselves (Numbers 31:18). > > Question: does a person who does good in the name of Satan rank > morally higher, or morally lower, than a person who does evil in the > name of God? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 I don't have a problem with BDSM per se. My problem is when stories depict children or mentally incapacitated individuals involved in it against their will. Satanism will be destroyed by God in the end. My suggestion that we inform others of the duality and duplicity of Bonnie's and Gareth's websites was in the interest of ensuring that the autism community is not besmirched and misled by these individuals. Tom Administrator If Tom wants all of us to take actions against Satanism and BDSM, I propose we must all take actions against religious wars, conflicts based on religion, and every other abuse we see in the name of this-or-that religion. Leif pagan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Re: On 3/20/06, environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: > The Bible states that God had the Israelis inflict horrible casualties > on their enemies to show these nations they conquered which nation > (Israel) was supported by God, and what God could do for a people that > believed in Him. That has always scared me - probably because I first learned some of these Bible stories during the worst part of the Vietnam war. When the USA army suffered horrible casualties at the hands of a much smaller nation (Vietnam), someone could presumably have used the same logic to claim that God supported Vietnam against the USA. Also, I've always wondered why God wouldn't show the nations His power through something that *didn't* look exactly like today's worst examples of " ethnic cleansing " ? Why didn't God do something equally impressive but non-destructive - as a warning, at least, before the real smiting? Given that God (according to the Bible) can create pillars of fire and smoke, how about (for example) fiery letters in the sky, along with a mighty voice, saying " Attention: I'm on this side [fiery arrow pointing to Israelite army] - convert, or you WILL feel My wrath - Yours truly, the Maker of Heaven and Earth " ? Yours for better letters, Kate Gladstone Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest handwritingrepair@... http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair 325 South Manning Boulevard Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA telephone 518/482-6763 AND REMEMBER ... you can order books through my site! (Amazon.com link - I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Remember that in the OT God has clearly stated that Israelis are His chosen people and they will remain such for all time as long as the israelis are faithful to Him. God makes no such promises to any other nation or group of people except Christians in the New Testament where he promises rewards in Heaven for those who suffer on God's behalf. I believe that God's promise to the Israeli people has never waivered. In the last century, you had a nation of devoted followers for Israel and you had the entire Arab world conspiring to destroy them. Though Arabs had the advantage logistically, in terms of ground forces, and in terms of number of troops, not only did Israel defeat the Arabs, but they conquered additional territory as well. By contrast, Hussein claimed Allah would cause the US to be defeated in the " Mother of all Battles. " The Mother of all Battles occured (twice), but it was Hussein who was defeated and eventually deposed. Could it be that the resason for this was that thge US defended Israeli in Gulf War I and God promised to stand by any nation that support Israel? If the Israelis were able to defeat the Arabs with fewer men and a lesser amount of military hardware in the Six Day War, it stands to reason that Hussein, if backed by God, could have defeated the US. But in Vietnam, the US was acting in its own interest. Not Israel's. So it's possible that God remained impartial in the conflict, or handed victory over to those He felt desaerved it. Tom Administrator " The Bible states that God had the Israelis inflict horrible casualties on their enemies to show these nations they conquered which nation(Israel) was supported by God, and what God could do for a people that believed in Him. " Kate replied: That has always scared me - probably because I first learned some of these Bible stories during the worst part of the Vietnam war. When the USA army suffered horrible casualties at the hands of a much smaller nation (Vietnam), someone could presumably have used the same logic to claim that God supported Vietnam against the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Tom, please... Can't you save this for your Christian forum so that those who wish to discuss it can join you there? Inger Re: Satanism Remember that in the OT God has clearly stated that Israelis are His chosen people and they will remain such for all time as long as the israelis are faithful to Him. God makes no such promises to any other nation or group of people except Christians in the New Testament where he promises rewards in Heaven for those who suffer on God's behalf. I believe that God's promise to the Israeli people has never waivered. In the last century, you had a nation of devoted followers for Israel and you had the entire Arab world conspiring to destroy them. Though Arabs had the advantage logistically, in terms of ground forces, and in terms of number of troops, not only did Israel defeat the Arabs, but they conquered additional territory as well. By contrast, Hussein claimed Allah would cause the US to be defeated in the " Mother of all Battles. " The Mother of all Battles occured (twice), but it was Hussein who was defeated and eventually deposed. Could it be that the resason for this was that thge US defended Israeli in Gulf War I and God promised to stand by any nation that support Israel? If the Israelis were able to defeat the Arabs with fewer men and a lesser amount of military hardware in the Six Day War, it stands to reason that Hussein, if backed by God, could have defeated the US. But in Vietnam, the US was acting in its own interest. Not Israel's. So it's possible that God remained impartial in the conflict, or handed victory over to those He felt desaerved it. Tom Administrator " The Bible states that God had the Israelis inflict horrible casualties on their enemies to show these nations they conquered which nation(Israel) was supported by God, and what God could do for a people that believed in Him. " Kate replied: That has always scared me - probably because I first learned some of these Bible stories during the worst part of the Vietnam war. When the USA army suffered horrible casualties at the hands of a much smaller nation (Vietnam), someone could presumably have used the same logic to claim that God supported Vietnam against the USA. FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Check the Links section for more FAM forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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