Re: Satanism

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/19/2006 7:53:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, handwritingrepair@... writes:

Indeed, the Bible states somewhere-or-other (I don't have time to lookit up right now) that God doesn't like people doing wickedly in God'sname (but what about all the times that the Bible has God tellingpeople to do things like massacring everyone in town but virgin girlsand then saving the virgin girls for themselves? Or that time whenElijah killed pagan prophets after he beat them in amy-God-answers-more-prayer-than-your-God contest?)

This would be the Commandement against taking God's name in vain. It doesn't mean not using God's name as a curseword, though that is part of it. I primarily means not swearing to something in the name of God. We come very close to violating this in our court system by saying "so help me God". If we said, "I swear in the name of God (or by God)," then it would be a violation. Doing something bad and claiming God said to do it would also be a violation.

As for those things you mention. Yes, bad things were done sometimes. That was the nature of war at the time. When nations clashes, it was a brutal thing with cities razed and the people slaughtered. Defeated armies didn't just surrender, they had to run away or be killed, and keep running because they would be pursued and hunted with the victors kill all they could catch. However, I think some of those accounts come off as worse than they appear. If you read beyond those accounts, you will see mention of the defeated people still living in the lands in great numbers. This is attested to by all the admonitions against associating with them, marrying with them and worshipping their gods. A few cities probably were put to the sword in order to destroy the enemy's power base, but most of the people did not live in the cities and lived. Still, it is a nasty way to fight.

[Guest guest]

"This" would apply to your part: Indeed, the Bible states somewhere-or-other (I don't have time to lookit up right now) that God doesn't like people doing wickedly in God'sname.

As to why God told them to do these things, that is a bit of a mystery. My belief is that they were told to do these things because that was how war was waged in those days. If the Israelites "played nice," then their enemies would have destroyed them. They were not strong enough at that time to have frightened their enemies from attacking them. Later they were, for a time, but later were defeated when their faith declined.

How does this mesh with a compassionate God? It meshes perfectly. Most people these days only focus on the fuzzy side of God and to forget about the harsh side. That's still there, it hasn't gone away or mellowed just because we humans don't like to think about it. I'll have to look for a quote from C.S. where he describes this very well.

Anyway, for the time being we humans have been seeing the softer side pretty much exclusively. I don't know how long that will last, however.

[Guest guest]

(I actually knew a Satanist in graduate school - not a Church of

Satan member, but a member of some other Satanist church - " Gnostic

Temple " or some such nam. She spent lots of her time working in soup

kitchens, literacy projects, anti-drug-abuse programs, " Mothers

Against Drunk Driving, " street-cleanup programs to get rid of litter,

programs against cruelty to animals, to raise money for job-training

for people with disabilities, and similar causes. She did this

because, in her belief, God wanted death and vice and cruelty and evil

but Satan wanted life and virtue and kindness and good. And I also

know that, on at least one occasion, she saved a life. (I learned this

from the man whom she had saved.)

Her church had very unusual religious teachings. According to those

teachings, an evil one called " God " had created the universe as his

own private amusement so that he and his friends could have fun

throughout eternity watching people and animals go through all sorts

of things including horrible suffering. Then (according to those

teachings) someone good called " Satan " had rebelled against this, had

escaped from " God's " realm, and had vowed to fight back against evil

in any way he could.

This naturally made " God " angry, so (according to what her

church believed) " God " then wrote many statements, books, and messages

all designed to make himself look good (including one called " The

Bible " ) and started giving these out to all the different groups of

people on Earth: not just to make " God " look good, but also to create

even more fun for " God " and his pals because the different

books/statements/messages all disagreed with one another - so now the

different groups of humans could put on an even better show by arguing

and even killing each other over the question of who had gotten the

right book!

She (my Satanist classmate) used to quote a lot of stuff from the

various religious scriptures, including the Bible, to prove God's

" evilness " as she saw it: for example, the Bible story where God tells

soldiers to wipe out the men, women, and boys of an enemy nation but

to keep the virgin girls alive for themselves (Numbers 31:18).

Question: does a person who does good in the name of Satan rank

morally higher, or morally lower, than a person who does evil in the

name of God?

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

[Guest guest]

" Satanism as I said is in spite of religion. I'm not the traditional

christian, there are to me things of logic to realize, as would be

gathered from any of my posts. A gift in thought is a gift in thought,

abstract reasoning in similarities, just how my mind is. I see

transparent to all of these things.

Satanism is just division. "

WRONG.

Sorry but this is all a very wrong picture of Satanism, one that's used

as propaganda by the church and other groups.

Satanism is nothing bad. I have Satanist friends and thgeir rituals carry

a lot of similarity to some of my own Pagan school. It's an accepted

path in Paganism. None of this crap the church throws out is in any way

true. The whole nonsense you see in the press and hear about mentally

sick people who sacrifice children or rape people has really nothing to

do with Satanism. Those mentally disturbed people use the name as a tool

of power, and kids who meet on graveyards and throw over stones only

want to be something different.

Unofrtunately, this creates problems for true Satanists, as the average

member of society has silly horror movies and sensationalist press

reports in mind when hearing the word. Much the same as people only see

Rainman when hearing the word autism. Just worse.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm for those who actually

want to know more about what it really is. There are more detailed

pages, I just can't find them now.

I also have to say that I am all a bit intimidated at the moment about

all the " god " talk. For me, " god " as a person is just a supersticion

(sp?).

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

" Question: does a person who does good in the name of Satan rank

> morally higher, or morally lower, than a person who does evil in the

> name of God? "

That's a very interesting question - and one that I do not have the

answer to - I think somewhere in the Bible it mentions about doing

wrong in God's name and I got the impression he wouldn't like that at

all (sorry my wording is stuffed tonight).

>

> (I actually knew a Satanist in graduate school - not a Church of

> Satan member, but a member of some other Satanist church - " Gnostic

> Temple " or some such nam. She spent lots of her time working in soup

> kitchens, literacy projects, anti-drug-abuse programs, " Mothers

> Against Drunk Driving, " street-cleanup programs to get rid of

litter,

> programs against cruelty to animals, to raise money for job-training

> for people with disabilities, and similar causes. She did this

> because, in her belief, God wanted death and vice and cruelty and

evil

> but Satan wanted life and virtue and kindness and good. And I also

> know that, on at least one occasion, she saved a life. (I learned

this

> from the man whom she had saved.)

>

> Her church had very unusual religious teachings. According to those

> teachings, an evil one called " God " had created the universe as his

> own private amusement so that he and his friends could have fun

> throughout eternity watching people and animals go through all sorts

> of things including horrible suffering. Then (according to those

> teachings) someone good called " Satan " had rebelled against this,

had

> escaped from " God's " realm, and had vowed to fight back against evil

> in any way he could.

> This naturally made " God " angry, so (according to what her

> church believed) " God " then wrote many statements, books, and

messages

> all designed to make himself look good (including one called " The

> Bible " ) and started giving these out to all the different groups of

> people on Earth: not just to make " God " look good, but also to

create

> even more fun for " God " and his pals because the different

> books/statements/messages all disagreed with one another - so now

the

> different groups of humans could put on an even better show by

arguing

> and even killing each other over the question of who had gotten the

> right book!

> She (my Satanist classmate) used to quote a lot of stuff from

the

> various religious scriptures, including the Bible, to prove God's

> " evilness " as she saw it: for example, the Bible story where God

tells

> soldiers to wipe out the men, women, and boys of an enemy nation but

> to keep the virgin girls alive for themselves (Numbers 31:18).

>

> Question: does a person who does good in the name of Satan rank

> morally higher, or morally lower, than a person who does evil in the

> name of God?

>

>

> Yours for better letters,

> Kate Gladstone

> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> handwritingrepair@...

> http://learn.to/handwrite,

http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> 325 South Manning Boulevard

> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> telephone 518/482-6763

> AND REMEMBER ...

> you can order books through my site!

> (Amazon.com link -

> I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

>

[Guest guest]

It's part of the bible, that is to say satan or lucifer, its a chracter in a book. In addition to it not being real it is of delusion, Satanism in autism politics is division.It was just meant to cuase problems amoung the christians and claim, oh your intolerant of my belief and so on. Peganism is of its own merit and is not satanism unless there psycho-methodological belief is of it by choice.Satanism is divisional, is typically from what I read a teenager belief and likely something that is not going to be of his belief for the rest of his life. LEastu ntil he gathers some sense.I didnt know about any of this stuff prior to being told, I dont even read the forums. It's nonsense and part of a rebelios young lads trouble making .A terrible P.R move in autism politics and really just stupid.The group in question is a point of division in the autism community (conflicts with other groups show its trend, has cuased me enough problems in all good

intends. Additionaly its not concerning quality of life and has been known to exclude those with different ideas. They keep those in agreement there and get rid of the others. It matters not really, as there is no movement without lagitament discussion that is two sided and equall. It is of there way, not the hundreds of thousands plus of those with autism spectrum differences. "small patatos", as the saying goes.It goes to show no wonder the reason for there problems, satanism in involved.RIGHT not WRONG, Satanism is a joke. Arania Lawakiro <csparania@...> wrote: "Satanism as I said is in spite of religion. I'm not the traditional christian, there are to me things of logic to realize, as would be gathered from any of my posts. A gift in thought is a gift in thought,

abstract reasoning in similarities, just how my mind is. I see transparent to all of these things. Satanism is just division. " WRONG. Sorry but this is all a very wrong picture of Satanism, one that's used as propaganda by the church and other groups. Satanism is nothing bad. I have Satanist friends and thgeir rituals carry a lot of similarity to some of my own Pagan school. It's an accepted path in Paganism. None of this crap the church throws out is in any way true. The whole nonsense you see in the press and hear about mentally sick people who sacrifice children or rape people has really nothing to do with Satanism. Those mentally disturbed people use the name as a tool of power, and kids who meet on graveyards and throw over stones only want to be something different. Unofrtunately, this creates problems for true Satanists, as the average member of society has silly horror movies and

sensationalist press reports in mind when hearing the word. Much the same as people only see Rainman when hearing the word autism. Just worse. http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm for those who actually want to know more about what it really is. There are more detailed pages, I just can't find them now. I also have to say that I am all a bit intimidated at the moment about all the "god" talk. For me, "god" as a person is just a supersticion (sp?). Lwaxy New Songhttp://www.aspergershosting.com/audio/Onwah.wma

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

[Guest guest]

Lwaxy: > Satanism is nothing bad. I have Satanist friends and thgeir rituals carry a lot of similarity to some of my own Pagan school. It's an accepted path in Paganism. From the link you posted: "Many Satanists feel that Wiccans are hypocrites, because the latter restrict their work to positive, healing activities. Satanists use magic and other rituals to benefit themselves and their friends, but also are free to use these same rituals to harm their enemies -- persons who have hurt them."Using rituals to harm others is definitely bad in my book - regardless if one thinks they 'deserve' it or not. It is still black magic. Need not be any Hollywood-type of rituals; it takes very little to create and send harmful thoughtforms. We all do that all the time when we get annoyed, but doing so knowingly, willfully and with precision increases our responsibility and the negative consequences it will have for the sender. > None of this crap the church throws out is in any way true. The whole nonsense you see in the press and hear about mentally sick people who sacrifice children or rape people has really nothing to do with Satanism. Those mentally disturbed people use the name as a tool of power, and kids who meet on graveyards and throw over stones only want to be something different.Yes, I'm sure a lot of that is exaggerated in the extreme. >Unfortunately, this creates problems for true Satanists, as the average member of society has silly horror movies and sensationalist press reports in mind when hearing the word. Much the same as people only see Rainman when hearing the word autism. Just worse.So, they are really just harmless, friendly beings that have been grossly misunderstood...? > http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm for those who actually want to know more about what it really is. I've read it before. Have some questions about it:"Religious Satanism is a valid religion, generally followed by adults."How can it be a "valid religion" at the same time as it is anti-religion? "Satan is not closely related to the modern (post 1400 AD) concept of the Christian devil. Satanists view Satan as a pre-Christian life principle which represents the carnal, earthly, and mundane aspects of life.""LaVey seems to have been involved as an advisor in a later movie The Devil's Rain which was released in 1975. He appeared in the movie as a Satanic priest. Some chants and symbols in the movie come from his writings."Why would he be an advisor in a movie about the Devil then? "Names used include Satan, Lucifer, Belial and Leviathan."

Now that has explained where the word Lucifer came from, where did the word Satan come from?

Those other two were pre-Christian, possibly Babylonian deities, no? Why worship something/someone that one does not believe in?

(The word "devil" comes from the word "dia-bol" which is Greek for something like divide/split in two - the opposite of the word "sym-bol" = bring together.)

"Ceremonies are pageants, which are used to celebrate a person or element of faith.Magic rituals consist of three types: Lust ritual: sex magic which includes masturbation"

Sex rituals is what Grigorij Rasputin got himself involved in. He ended up possessed, mad and distinctly unpleasant.

"Compassion ritual to achieve healing or happiness"

No problem with that, unless one has first invoked dark entities to help create it or attract them by resonance. True healing and happiness does not come from them.

"Destruction ritual (may include sticking pins in a doll; drawing a picture or writing a description of the victim's death; delivering a soliloquy, etc.). Destruction rituals are best performed by a group. If a person targeted by a destruction ritual is not deserving of it, the ritual will not harm them."

That MAY be true, but even if it is, that is a very poor excuse. It's still not OK to even attempt it.

"Many Satanists from different traditions wear amulets carrying the symbol of the Sigil of Baphomet. This is "a star which contains a goat's head, and surrounding which appear two concentric circles. Between these circles appear five Hebraic characters." The star is an inverted pentagram. Although there have been many similar symbols involving the head of a goat and an inverted pentagram in a circle, this particular configuration is a registered trade mark of the Church of Satan since 1983."

And this symbol actually does represent AND attracts dark and destructive entities. Being unaware of that and thinking it just harmless or cool I find scarily naive. I hesitate to use the word evil since I'm not a religious fanatic, but I do belive thare is true darkness, regardless of religion, and that certain symbols have been so infused with a specific type of vibration/consciousness, just like the cross has, that it really does connect one's mind to that sphere if one focuses on it too much. > I also have to say that I am all a bit intimidated at the moment about all the "god" talk. For me, "god" as a person is just a supersticion (sp?)."Superstition" (I think). Feel free to ignore those posts if you do not belive in a "god".

Inger

[Guest guest]

" Sorry but this is all a very wrong picture of Satanism, one that's

used as propaganda by the church and other groups.

>

> Satanism is nothing bad. "

Satanism is bad from a Christian view point.

I do not have the wrong picture of Satanists (maybe just different

from others)- I have read the Satanic Bible by Anton La Vey and I do

know a Satanist too.

From a Christian view point it is still wrong - they are against

Christianity and agaisnt God - they believe in putting themselves

first, making a god of themselves. Their most important holy day is

their birthday.

I am well aware that many Satanists seem rational, nice people and do

not go around sacrificing babies and animals etc - but their religion

still leads away from God.

>

>

> " Satanism as I said is in spite of religion. I'm not the traditional

> christian, there are to me things of logic to realize, as would be

> gathered from any of my posts. A gift in thought is a gift in

thought,

> abstract reasoning in similarities, just how my mind is. I see

> transparent to all of these things.

>

> Satanism is just division. "

>

> WRONG.

>

> Sorry but this is all a very wrong picture of Satanism, one that's

used

> as propaganda by the church and other groups.

>

> Satanism is nothing bad. I have Satanist friends and thgeir rituals

carry

> a lot of similarity to some of my own Pagan school. It's an accepted

> path in Paganism. None of this crap the church throws out is in any

way

> true. The whole nonsense you see in the press and hear about

mentally

> sick people who sacrifice children or rape people has really

nothing to

> do with Satanism. Those mentally disturbed people use the name as a

tool

> of power, and kids who meet on graveyards and throw over stones only

> want to be something different.

>

> Unofrtunately, this creates problems for true Satanists, as the

average

> member of society has silly horror movies and sensationalist press

> reports in mind when hearing the word. Much the same as people only

see

> Rainman when hearing the word autism. Just worse.

>

> http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm for those who

actually

> want to know more about what it really is. There are more detailed

> pages, I just can't find them now.

>

> I also have to say that I am all a bit intimidated at the moment

about

> all the " god " talk. For me, " god " as a person is just a supersticion

> (sp?).

>

> Lwaxy

>

[Guest guest]

" And this symbol actually does represent AND attracts dark and

destructive entities. Being unaware of that and thinking it just

harmless or cool I find scarily naive. I hesitate to use the word

evil since I'm not a religious fanatic, but I do belive thare is true

darkness, regardless of religion, and that certain symbols have been

so infused with a specific type of vibration/consciousness, just like

the cross has, that it really does connect one's mind to that sphere

if one focuses on it too much. "

What is quite worrying is how mainstream this symbol is becoming. At

the moment there are many phycic type style glossy magazines out -

one such magazine had a subsribtion gift of a reversed pentagram

necklace - I couldn't believe it - surely they knew what that

symbolised?

>

> Lwaxy:

> > Satanism is nothing bad. I have Satanist friends and thgeir

rituals carry a lot of similarity to some of my own Pagan school.

It's an accepted path in Paganism.

>

> From the link you posted:

> " Many Satanists feel that Wiccans are hypocrites, because the

latter restrict their work to positive, healing activities. Satanists

use magic and other rituals to benefit themselves and their friends,

but also are free to use these same rituals to harm their enemies --

persons who have hurt them. "

>

> Using rituals to harm others is definitely bad in my book -

regardless if one thinks they 'deserve' it or not. It is still black

magic. Need not be any Hollywood-type of rituals; it takes very

little to create and send harmful thoughtforms. We all do that all

the time when we get annoyed, but doing so knowingly, willfully and

with precision increases our responsibility and the negative

consequences it will have for the sender.

>

> > None of this crap the church throws out is in any way true. The

whole nonsense you see in the press and hear about mentally sick

people who sacrifice children or rape people has really nothing to do

with Satanism. Those mentally disturbed people use the name as a tool

of power, and kids who meet on graveyards and throw over stones only

want to be something different.

>

> Yes, I'm sure a lot of that is exaggerated in the extreme.

>

> >Unfortunately, this creates problems for true Satanists, as the

average member of society has silly horror movies and sensationalist

press reports in mind when hearing the word. Much the same as people

only see Rainman when hearing the word autism. Just worse.

>

> So, they are really just harmless, friendly beings that have been

grossly misunderstood...?

>

> > http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm for those who

actually want to know more about what it really is.

>

> I've read it before. Have some questions about it:

>

> " Religious Satanism is a valid religion, generally followed by

adults. "

>

> How can it be a " valid religion " at the same time as it is anti-

religion?

>

> " Satan is not closely related to the modern (post 1400 AD) concept

of the Christian devil. Satanists view Satan as a pre-Christian life

principle which represents the carnal, earthly, and mundane aspects

of life. "

>

> " LaVey seems to have been involved as an advisor in a later movie

The Devil's Rain which was released in 1975. He appeared in the movie

as a Satanic priest. Some chants and symbols in the movie come from

his writings. "

>

> Why would he be an advisor in a movie about the Devil then?

>

> " Names used include Satan, Lucifer, Belial and Leviathan. "

>

> Now that has explained where the word Lucifer came from,

where did the word Satan come from?

>

> Those other two were pre-Christian, possibly Babylonian deities,

no? Why worship something/someone that one does not believe in?

>

> (The word " devil " comes from the word " dia-bol " which is Greek for

something like divide/split in two - the opposite of the word " sym-

bol " = bring together.)

>

> " Ceremonies are pageants, which are used to celebrate a person or

element of faith.

> Magic rituals consist of three types:

> Lust ritual: sex magic which includes masturbation "

>

> Sex rituals is what Grigorij Rasputin got himself involved in. He

ended up possessed, mad and distinctly unpleasant.

>

> " Compassion ritual to achieve healing or happiness "

>

> No problem with that, unless one has first invoked dark entities to

help create it or attract them by resonance. True healing and

happiness does not come from them.

>

> " Destruction ritual (may include sticking pins in a doll; drawing a

picture or writing a description of the victim's death; delivering a

soliloquy, etc.). Destruction rituals are best performed by a group.

If a person targeted by a destruction ritual is not deserving of it,

the ritual will not harm them. "

>

> That MAY be true, but even if it is, that is a very poor excuse.

It's still not OK to even attempt it.

>

> " Many Satanists from different traditions wear amulets carrying the

symbol of the Sigil of Baphomet. This is " a star which contains a

goat's head, and surrounding which appear two concentric circles.

Between these circles appear five Hebraic characters. " The star is an

inverted pentagram. Although there have been many similar symbols

involving the head of a goat and an inverted pentagram in a circle,

this particular configuration is a registered trade mark of the

Church of Satan since 1983. "

>

> And this symbol actually does represent AND attracts dark and

destructive entities. Being unaware of that and thinking it just

harmless or cool I find scarily naive. I hesitate to use the word

evil since I'm not a religious fanatic, but I do belive thare is true

darkness, regardless of religion, and that certain symbols have been

so infused with a specific type of vibration/consciousness, just like

the cross has, that it really does connect one's mind to that sphere

if one focuses on it too much.

>

> > I also have to say that I am all a bit intimidated at the moment

about all the " god " talk. For me, " god " as a person is just a

supersticion (sp?).

>

> " Superstition " (I think). Feel free to ignore those posts if you do

not belive in a " god " .

>

> Inger

>

[Guest guest]

-Just a brief comment.i have always had a certain admiration for

LaVey,but i still feel it is bad to invoke negative energy to harm

people.At least he warned people of the danger and that it was not to

be done lightly.i don't approve of Satanism,however,even those who

claim to follow LaVey's teachings,because too many folks seem to be

drawn to the negative stuff and are not deep thinkers like LaVey.He

wrote some fine essays on politics,where,if you did not know who he

was,he really sounded logical and smart.i used to be a LaVey

Satanist,but felt it was just too negative.For many years i have been

a Gnostic Christian. Kajira

-- In , " Inger Lorelei " <inglori@...>

wrote:

>

> Lwaxy:

> > Satanism is nothing bad. I have Satanist friends and thgeir

rituals carry a lot of similarity to some of my own Pagan school.

It's an accepted path in Paganism.

>

> From the link you posted:

> " Many Satanists feel that Wiccans are hypocrites, because the

latter restrict their work to positive, healing activities. Satanists

use magic and other rituals to benefit themselves and their friends,

but also are free to use these same rituals to harm their enemies --

persons who have hurt them. "

>

> Using rituals to harm others is definitely bad in my book -

regardless if one thinks they 'deserve' it or not. It is still black

magic. Need not be any Hollywood-type of rituals; it takes very

little to create and send harmful thoughtforms. We all do that all

the time when we get annoyed, but doing so knowingly, willfully and

with precision increases our responsibility and the negative

consequences it will have for the sender.

>

> > None of this crap the church throws out is in any way true. The

whole nonsense you see in the press and hear about mentally sick

people who sacrifice children or rape people has really nothing to do

with Satanism. Those mentally disturbed people use the name as a tool

of power, and kids who meet on graveyards and throw over stones only

want to be something different.

>

> Yes, I'm sure a lot of that is exaggerated in the extreme.

>

> >Unfortunately, this creates problems for true Satanists, as the

average member of society has silly horror movies and sensationalist

press reports in mind when hearing the word. Much the same as people

only see Rainman when hearing the word autism. Just worse.

>

> So, they are really just harmless, friendly beings that have been

grossly misunderstood...?

>

> > http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm for those who

actually want to know more about what it really is.

>

> I've read it before. Have some questions about it:

>

> " Religious Satanism is a valid religion, generally followed by

adults. "

>

> How can it be a " valid religion " at the same time as it is anti-

religion?

>

> " Satan is not closely related to the modern (post 1400 AD) concept

of the Christian devil. Satanists view Satan as a pre-Christian life

principle which represents the carnal, earthly, and mundane aspects

of life. "

>

> " LaVey seems to have been involved as an advisor in a later movie

The Devil's Rain which was released in 1975. He appeared in the movie

as a Satanic priest. Some chants and symbols in the movie come from

his writings. "

>

> Why would he be an advisor in a movie about the Devil then?

>

> " Names used include Satan, Lucifer, Belial and Leviathan. "

>

> Now that has explained where the word Lucifer came from,

where did the word Satan come from?

>

> Those other two were pre-Christian, possibly Babylonian deities,

no? Why worship something/someone that one does not believe in?

>

> (The word " devil " comes from the word " dia-bol " which is Greek for

something like divide/split in two - the opposite of the word " sym-

bol " = bring together.)

>

> " Ceremonies are pageants, which are used to celebrate a person or

element of faith.

> Magic rituals consist of three types:

> Lust ritual: sex magic which includes masturbation "

>

> Sex rituals is what Grigorij Rasputin got himself involved in. He

ended up possessed, mad and distinctly unpleasant.

>

> " Compassion ritual to achieve healing or happiness "

>

> No problem with that, unless one has first invoked dark entities to

help create it or attract them by resonance. True healing and

happiness does not come from them.

>

> " Destruction ritual (may include sticking pins in a doll; drawing a

picture or writing a description of the victim's death; delivering a

soliloquy, etc.). Destruction rituals are best performed by a group.

If a person targeted by a destruction ritual is not deserving of it,

the ritual will not harm them. "

>

> That MAY be true, but even if it is, that is a very poor excuse.

It's still not OK to even attempt it.

>

> " Many Satanists from different traditions wear amulets carrying the

symbol of the Sigil of Baphomet. This is " a star which contains a

goat's head, and surrounding which appear two concentric circles.

Between these circles appear five Hebraic characters. " The star is an

inverted pentagram. Although there have been many similar symbols

involving the head of a goat and an inverted pentagram in a circle,

this particular configuration is a registered trade mark of the

Church of Satan since 1983. "

>

> And this symbol actually does represent AND attracts dark and

destructive entities. Being unaware of that and thinking it just

harmless or cool I find scarily naive. I hesitate to use the word

evil since I'm not a religious fanatic, but I do belive thare is true

darkness, regardless of religion, and that certain symbols have been

so infused with a specific type of vibration/consciousness, just like

the cross has, that it really does connect one's mind to that sphere

if one focuses on it too much.

>

> > I also have to say that I am all a bit intimidated at the moment

about all the " god " talk. For me, " god " as a person is just a

supersticion (sp?).

>

> " Superstition " (I think). Feel free to ignore those posts if you do

not belive in a " god " .

>

> Inger

>

[Guest guest]

-Just a brief comment.i have always had a certain admiration for

LaVey,but i still feel it is bad to invoke negative energy to harm

people.At least he warned people of the danger and that it was not to

be done lightly.i don't approve of Satanism,however,even those who

claim to follow LaVey's teachings,because too many folks seem to be

drawn to the negative stuff and are not deep thinkers like LaVey.He

wrote some fine essays on politics,where,if you did not know who he

was,he really sounded logical and smart.i used to be a LaVey

Satanist,but felt it was just too negative.For many years i have been

a Gnostic Christian. Kajira

-- In , " Inger Lorelei " <inglori@...>

wrote:

>

> Lwaxy:

> > Satanism is nothing bad. I have Satanist friends and thgeir

rituals carry a lot of similarity to some of my own Pagan school.

It's an accepted path in Paganism.

>

> From the link you posted:

> " Many Satanists feel that Wiccans are hypocrites, because the

latter restrict their work to positive, healing activities. Satanists

use magic and other rituals to benefit themselves and their friends,

but also are free to use these same rituals to harm their enemies --

persons who have hurt them. "

>

> Using rituals to harm others is definitely bad in my book -

regardless if one thinks they 'deserve' it or not. It is still black

magic. Need not be any Hollywood-type of rituals; it takes very

little to create and send harmful thoughtforms. We all do that all

the time when we get annoyed, but doing so knowingly, willfully and

with precision increases our responsibility and the negative

consequences it will have for the sender.

>

> > None of this crap the church throws out is in any way true. The

whole nonsense you see in the press and hear about mentally sick

people who sacrifice children or rape people has really nothing to do

with Satanism. Those mentally disturbed people use the name as a tool

of power, and kids who meet on graveyards and throw over stones only

want to be something different.

>

> Yes, I'm sure a lot of that is exaggerated in the extreme.

>

> >Unfortunately, this creates problems for true Satanists, as the

average member of society has silly horror movies and sensationalist

press reports in mind when hearing the word. Much the same as people

only see Rainman when hearing the word autism. Just worse.

>

> So, they are really just harmless, friendly beings that have been

grossly misunderstood...?

>

> > http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm for those who

actually want to know more about what it really is.

>

> I've read it before. Have some questions about it:

>

> " Religious Satanism is a valid religion, generally followed by

adults. "

>

> How can it be a " valid religion " at the same time as it is anti-

religion?

>

> " Satan is not closely related to the modern (post 1400 AD) concept

of the Christian devil. Satanists view Satan as a pre-Christian life

principle which represents the carnal, earthly, and mundane aspects

of life. "

>

> " LaVey seems to have been involved as an advisor in a later movie

The Devil's Rain which was released in 1975. He appeared in the movie

as a Satanic priest. Some chants and symbols in the movie come from

his writings. "

>

> Why would he be an advisor in a movie about the Devil then?

>

> " Names used include Satan, Lucifer, Belial and Leviathan. "

>

> Now that has explained where the word Lucifer came from,

where did the word Satan come from?

>

> Those other two were pre-Christian, possibly Babylonian deities,

no? Why worship something/someone that one does not believe in?

>

> (The word " devil " comes from the word " dia-bol " which is Greek for

something like divide/split in two - the opposite of the word " sym-

bol " = bring together.)

>

> " Ceremonies are pageants, which are used to celebrate a person or

element of faith.

> Magic rituals consist of three types:

> Lust ritual: sex magic which includes masturbation "

>

> Sex rituals is what Grigorij Rasputin got himself involved in. He

ended up possessed, mad and distinctly unpleasant.

>

> " Compassion ritual to achieve healing or happiness "

>

> No problem with that, unless one has first invoked dark entities to

help create it or attract them by resonance. True healing and

happiness does not come from them.

>

> " Destruction ritual (may include sticking pins in a doll; drawing a

picture or writing a description of the victim's death; delivering a

soliloquy, etc.). Destruction rituals are best performed by a group.

If a person targeted by a destruction ritual is not deserving of it,

the ritual will not harm them. "

>

> That MAY be true, but even if it is, that is a very poor excuse.

It's still not OK to even attempt it.

>

> " Many Satanists from different traditions wear amulets carrying the

symbol of the Sigil of Baphomet. This is " a star which contains a

goat's head, and surrounding which appear two concentric circles.

Between these circles appear five Hebraic characters. " The star is an

inverted pentagram. Although there have been many similar symbols

involving the head of a goat and an inverted pentagram in a circle,

this particular configuration is a registered trade mark of the

Church of Satan since 1983. "

>

> And this symbol actually does represent AND attracts dark and

destructive entities. Being unaware of that and thinking it just

harmless or cool I find scarily naive. I hesitate to use the word

evil since I'm not a religious fanatic, but I do belive thare is true

darkness, regardless of religion, and that certain symbols have been

so infused with a specific type of vibration/consciousness, just like

the cross has, that it really does connect one's mind to that sphere

if one focuses on it too much.

>

> > I also have to say that I am all a bit intimidated at the moment

about all the " god " talk. For me, " god " as a person is just a

supersticion (sp?).

>

> " Superstition " (I think). Feel free to ignore those posts if you do

not belive in a " god " .

>

> Inger

>

[Guest guest]

Indeed, the Bible states somewhere-or-other (I don't have time to look

it up right now) that God doesn't like people doing wickedly in God's

name (but what about all the times that the Bible has God telling

people to do things like massacring everyone in town but virgin girls

and then saving the virgin girls for themselves? Or that time when

Elijah killed pagan prophets after he beat them in a

my-God-answers-more-prayer-than-your-God contest?)

And the Bible doesn't say a word (as far as I know) against people

like that mom I knew who did virtuously in Satan's name ...

Some folks have said that we need to tell children to believe in God

so that they will act virtuously. To me, this sounds like telling

people to believe something *not* because it actually holds true but

for some different reason.

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

[Guest guest]

" Many Satanists feel that Wiccans are hypocrites, because the latter

restrict their work to positive, healing activities. Satanists use magic

and other rituals to benefit themselves and their friends, but also are

free to use these same rituals to harm their enemies -- persons who have

hurt them. "

Yes, Wiccan is mostly a joke. to me, anyway, because it's a new way of

defining paganism that tries to come over as ancient wisdom, which it is

not. There are, of cours,e plenty of wicca who know this and are

adapting to it, but there are also plenty who think they are the only

true branch of Paganism.

I use magic to benefit myself and my friends. Nothing wrong with that, as

long as you harm no one else. After all, no one else will take care of

me first place. I'm constantly treated as nonexistent by most people.

And of course I fight my enemies, no matter if with magic or not. Someone

attacks me, they'll be sorry, and it matters little if this is a

physical attack or a magic attack.

The idea of " harming " others is usually the last straw, when nothing

else works and they don't leave you alone.

" It is still black magic. "

There is no such things as " black magic " or " white magic. " Same as

there is no such thing as the Dark Side or the Light Side of the Force

(for the SW fans out there. The only thing that matters is your

intention. Your intention can only be " bad " if you disregard your own

wellbeing and safety by being the initiating a conflict, or want to take

from someone else for just your own gain. In this world, everything bad

you do, as in, whith bad intentions, always comes back to you. But the

Force as such is neutral.

" We all do that all the time when we get annoyed, but doing so

knowingly, willfully and with precision increases our responsibility and

the negative consequences it will have for the sender. "

Exactly, why is why no true Satanist (or whatever school) would risk such

a feedback without a very good reason. If you find someone doing a

ritual to remove his boss, for example, you can be sure that the boss is

really unbearable and has not only caused hell for himself but also for

others at the work place. And still, even with no bad intentions, there

WILL be feedback. The question is always how much you are willing to

pay, and the backlash can be very unpredictable.

" So, they are really just harmless, friendly beings that have been

grossly misunderstood...? "

Why do people always need to be friendly? I sure am not, usually, and

plenty of Aspies can't come over friendly either. But yeah, Satanists

are badly misunderstood. Thanks to Hollywood mostly, which is what the

whole lets-mess-up-a-graveyard wannabe Satanists seem to base their

" believes " on.

I'd also like " harmless " to be defined. I'm not harmless, I never was

and don't want to be. Beind harmless, as a person, invited abuse in my

experience. You need to be able to bring harm to those attacking you if

it is needed, or you may end up dead. Anyone ever got attacked on the

streets (and I was several times) will know that. But Satanism as such

is a harmless religion as in them not bringing trouble to society any

more than Christianity does.

How can it be a " valid religion " at the same time as it is

anti-religion? "

Problem of definition. If we see religion as something spiritual, then

Satanism (and some other beliefs and value systems) are clearly

religions. Yet if we define religion by dogmas and clear, for everyone

binding rules and definitions, Satanism is no religion. Nor is buddhism

in this case.

" Why would he be an advisor in a movie about the Devil then? "

Money and fame, why else )

" Now that has explained where the word Lucifer came from, where

did the word Satan come from? "

Must have missed that mail, but Lucifer is the bringer of light, and

enlightenment. Satan means accuser or adversary.

" Why worship something/someone that one does not believe in? "

Satanists do not really worship anything. Satan is an archetype, not a

single person. A " worship " uses archetypes to invoke your own piece of

enlightenment, your very own power. Many religions actually do this.

" Sex rituals is what Grigorij Rasputin got himself involved in. He ended

up possessed, mad and distinctly unpleasant. "

So what? I've seen Christians end up completely delusional and obsessed

by their faith. I even have an aunt like that.

" That MAY be true, but even if it is, that is a very poor excuse. It's

still not OK to even attempt it. "

And just why not? It's part of the karma rule, or energy rule. What is

also not said here is that it is basically a must that you do such

rituals in groups. A single person may have personal issues and not be

objective and thus get backlashes.

" And this symbol actually does represent AND attracts dark and

destructive entities. "

Only if you have no fing clue what you are doing while believing the

amulet does something. As most people who buy such amulets do it to be

somwewhat dark, it's easy for darker forces to be attrackted to it. If

you don't even know what a symbol is and don't care, nothing will ever

happen, unless the amulet has formerly been embedded.

Spirits are never EVER attracted just by a form alone. This is an old

myth. Even an amulet with a supposed dark symbol can be the perfect

light protector. a symbol alonme never matters. The idea and intentions

behind it does.

" I do belive thare is true darkness, regardless of religion "

Darkness in itself is nothing bad and has nada to do with evil. It is a

lo harder to control dark stuff because you literally cannot see and

need to feel your way through, and emotions are always dangerous to work

with. But, essentially, all energies are neutral.

" that certain symbols have been so infused with a specific type of

vibration/consciousness, just like the cross has, that it really does

connect one's mind to that sphere if one focuses on it too much. "

Yes. Focusses on it too much - exactly. But I have seen crosses before

that were what you might call possessed with bad energies. It is not a

general rule.

" Feel free to ignore those posts if you do not belive in a " god " . "

Tried to, but it is still disturbing seeing them in my mailbox. Christian

spam and pressure in RL is so bad where I live I would really wish I'd

be safe from it every now and then.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

Re:

Re:

>where did

> the word Satan come from?

In Hebrew it means " accuser " or " opponent " - Biblical Hebrew used it

to mean the " prosecuting attorney " in a court trial (think of the Book

of Job, where God's court of Angels has Satan among them, trying to

prove Job guilty)

Re this Satanic emblem -

> " a star which contains a goat's head, and

> surrounding which appear two concentric circles. Between these circles

> appear five Hebraic characters. "

The five Hebrew letters spell out " leviatan " - the Hebrew word for

" whale. " I have absolutely no idea why the Satanists think it makes

sense to write the Hebrew word for " whale " around the outside of a

star containing a goat's head. (And, no, my old acquaintance the

do-gooding Satanist-church mom couldn't tell me either - her

particular Satanist church/sect/denomination didn't use that symbol.)

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

[Guest guest]

Re:

> This would be the Commandement against taking God's name in vain.

What does " this " refer to? To Elijah challenging the pagans to a sort

of " God-versus-God " showdown? (Bible: First Book of Kings, Chapter 18)

Or to the pagans accepting the challenge?

> As for those things you mention. Yes, bad things were done sometimes. That

> was the nature of war at the time. ... Still, it is a nasty way to fight.

Yes - especially when the people fighting in this way have a book that

states that God told them to fight in this way.

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

[Guest guest]

" There is no such things as " black magic " or " white magic. " Same as

there is no such thing as the Dark Side or the Light Side of the Force

(for the SW fans out there. "

Father Armoth, the respected exorcist would agree with you:

AMORTH: There is no distinction between white and black magic. When

magic works, it is al- ways the work of the Devil. All the forms of

occultism, such as mass recourse to Eastern religious with all their

esoteric connotations, are an open door for the Devil. And so he

comes in. Immediately. I had no hesitation in saying that there was

direct intervention by the Devil in the case of the nun murdered in

Chiavenna (for which three teenage girls have been charged) and in

the case of and , the teenagers of Novi Ligure, North

Italy (, 16, is currently being held in a Milan detention

center on suspicion of murdering her mother and 10-year-old brother,

with the complicity of her boyfriend, , 17). Those kids were

devoted to Satanism. Police in their enquiries found that, in both

these cases, these youngsters were followers of Satan. They had

Satanic books.

How does the Devil go about seducing men and women?

AMORTH: His strategy is monotonous. I have told him so and he admits

it … He convinces people that there is no hell, that there is no

sin, just one more experience to live. Lust, success and power are

the three great passions on which the Devil insists.

[Guest guest]

" There is no such things as " black magic " or " white magic. " Same as

there is no such thing as the Dark Side or the Light Side of the Force

(for the SW fans out there. "

Father Armoth, the respected exorcist would agree with you:

AMORTH: There is no distinction between white and black magic. When

magic works, it is al- ways the work of the Devil. All the forms of

occultism, such as mass recourse to Eastern religious with all their

esoteric connotations, are an open door for the Devil. And so he

comes in. Immediately. I had no hesitation in saying that there was

direct intervention by the Devil in the case of the nun murdered in

Chiavenna (for which three teenage girls have been charged) and in

the case of and , the teenagers of Novi Ligure, North

Italy (, 16, is currently being held in a Milan detention

center on suspicion of murdering her mother and 10-year-old brother,

with the complicity of her boyfriend, , 17). Those kids were

devoted to Satanism. Police in their enquiries found that, in both

these cases, these youngsters were followers of Satan. They had

Satanic books.

How does the Devil go about seducing men and women?

AMORTH: His strategy is monotonous. I have told him so and he admits

it … He convinces people that there is no hell, that there is no

sin, just one more experience to live. Lust, success and power are

the three great passions on which the Devil insists.

[Guest guest]

Tom, quoting:

" AMORTH: All the forms of occultism, such as mass recourse to Eastern

religious with all their esoteric connotations, are an open door for the

Devil. "

This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Eastern religions are

ligitimate religions, just as much as Christianity is.

Esotericism is nothing sinister either, since it only explains how the

universe works, gives rational explanations that make it less difficult for

an intelligent person to understand and accept the concept of a spiritual

reality, and encourages goodness, responsibility and spiritual development.

I do agree though, that dark elements have a tendency to try to weasel their

way into for example the New Age movement, by promoting magic as something

harmless or fun. (Any serious esoteric student knows to stay well away from

such things.)

I also see a lot of satanic symbolism in Heavy Metal, as well as in

children's cartoons, and the latter I find particular distasteful and

unnecessary. I often cannot watch children's films because of the excess

focus on demons and monsters in them. Don't understand how they can be

permitted to air such things for children.

Inger

[Guest guest]

The Bible states that God had the Israelis inflict horrible casualties

on their enemies to show these nations they conquered which nation

(Israel) was supported by God, and what God could do for a people that

believed in Him.

Many times, over and over again, God would tell the Israelis that their

army was too big and to halve or even reduce in greater numbers their

armies so that their might, as granted by God, could be witnessed by

the opposition. There are stories of hundreds of Israelis killing

thousands of the oponent, and this was due to the oponent continually

defying the Israelis, and therefore God, since the Israelis were God's

chosen people.

Tom

Administrator

My belief is that they were told to do these things because that was

how war was waged in those days. If the Israelites " played nice, " then

their enemies would have destroyed them. They were not strong enough at

that time to have frightened their enemies from attacking them. Later

they were, for a time, but later were defeated when their faith

declined.

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to let you know who " THIS GUY " is. He is perhaps the most

knowledgeable exorcist in the Holy Roman Catholic Church today. He is

Rome's Chief Exorcist, Father e Amorth.

You also ought to understand that from the perspective of the Catholic

Church, and many Christian churches as well, all other religions, save

Judaism, from which stems Christianity, are null and void as religions.

His stating that...

" All the forms of occultism, such as mass recourse to Eastern religious

with all their esoteric connotations, are an open door for the Devil. "

are in accordance with the principles of the Christian faith which

believes that any religion that denies Jesus as the Christ and the

Christian God as the one true God are " from the Devil. "

The reason for this opinion of other faiths is that such theologies

espouse beliefs inconsistent with what is stated in the Bible.

Esoteric teachings, for example, claim that sections regarding

reincarnation, and the instructions for how man can perform miracles,

were cut out of the Bible.

The Christian Church takes issue with this.

Because esoteric teachings believe in reincarnation, and other subjects

not at all mentioned in any chapter or verse of the Bible (in either

the Catholic Bible or the Protestant Bible which include different

books in some portions), and because no mention of certain esoteric

principles are mentioned in books discarded or not included from either

version of the Bible, and because certain esoteric principles are

mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and because certain esoteric

principles are not mentioned in any surviving historic document from

the time of Christ or from and surviving documents predating the time

of Christ, and because no such documentation has ever been presented by

those practising esoteric belief systems to back up the validity of

esoteric teachings, the Church assumes that such esoteric teachings are

sheer fabrication, that they are anti-Christian because they do not

follow the precise teachings of Christ, and they are " from the Devil "

for these reasons and will remain thought of in that regard until such

evidence can be provided to prove otherwise.

And so while " THIS GUY " may not sound like he knows what he is talking

about, or, while " THIS GUY " may sound like he is being derrogatory, he

is, in reality merely espousing the exact and specific beliefs of the

Catholic Church. No more, no less.

Certainly if people who practised esoteric theology would present some

sort of evidence to the Church they would examine it and either

integrate it into itself if it was truthful, or reject its falsehood if

it were false.

Tom

Administrator

Tom, quoting:

" AMORTH: All the forms of occultism, such as mass recourse to Eastern

religious with all their esoteric connotations, are an open door for the

Devil. "

Inger responding:

This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Eastern religions are

ligitimate religions, just as much as Christianity is.

[Guest guest]

If this is the terrible " Satanism " depicted here in long

threads, I'll be glad to join them any time!

I've studied this a whole lot in conjunction with the

neanderthal theory. Seems like Judaism, Christianity

and Islam are examples of religions whose main

purpose is to oppress women. Not only that, they

are no more than primitive male primate instincts

made holy in the name of a God. That's why people

go out in war in the name of God, to kill male enemies

and rape their women. Many primates do this regulary

as " take-overs " . No better than Bonnies stories, IMHO.

If Tom wants all of us to take actions against Satanism

and BDSM, I propose we must all take actions against

religious wars, conflicts based on religion, and every other

abuse we see in the name of this-or-that religion.

Leif

pagan

Kate:

> (I actually knew a Satanist in graduate school - not a Church of

> Satan member, but a member of some other Satanist church - " Gnostic

> Temple " or some such nam. She spent lots of her time working in soup

> kitchens, literacy projects, anti-drug-abuse programs, " Mothers

> Against Drunk Driving, " street-cleanup programs to get rid of litter,

> programs against cruelty to animals, to raise money for job-training

> for people with disabilities, and similar causes. She did this

> because, in her belief, God wanted death and vice and cruelty and evil

> but Satan wanted life and virtue and kindness and good. And I also

> know that, on at least one occasion, she saved a life. (I learned this

> from the man whom she had saved.)

>

> Her church had very unusual religious teachings. According to those

> teachings, an evil one called " God " had created the universe as his

> own private amusement so that he and his friends could have fun

> throughout eternity watching people and animals go through all sorts

> of things including horrible suffering. Then (according to those

> teachings) someone good called " Satan " had rebelled against this, had

> escaped from " God's " realm, and had vowed to fight back against evil

> in any way he could.

> This naturally made " God " angry, so (according to what her

> church believed) " God " then wrote many statements, books, and messages

> all designed to make himself look good (including one called " The

> Bible " ) and started giving these out to all the different groups of

> people on Earth: not just to make " God " look good, but also to create

> even more fun for " God " and his pals because the different

> books/statements/messages all disagreed with one another - so now the

> different groups of humans could put on an even better show by arguing

> and even killing each other over the question of who had gotten the

> right book!

> She (my Satanist classmate) used to quote a lot of stuff from the

> various religious scriptures, including the Bible, to prove God's

> " evilness " as she saw it: for example, the Bible story where God tells

> soldiers to wipe out the men, women, and boys of an enemy nation but

> to keep the virgin girls alive for themselves (Numbers 31:18).

>

> Question: does a person who does good in the name of Satan rank

> morally higher, or morally lower, than a person who does evil in the

> name of God?

[Guest guest]

I don't have a problem with BDSM per se. My problem is when stories

depict children or mentally incapacitated individuals involved in it

against their will.

Satanism will be destroyed by God in the end.

My suggestion that we inform others of the duality and duplicity of

Bonnie's and Gareth's websites was in the interest of ensuring that

the autism community is not besmirched and misled by these

individuals.

Tom

Administrator

If Tom wants all of us to take actions against Satanism

and BDSM, I propose we must all take actions against

religious wars, conflicts based on religion, and every other

abuse we see in the name of this-or-that religion.

Leif

pagan

[Guest guest]

Re:

On 3/20/06, environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote:

> The Bible states that God had the Israelis inflict horrible casualties

> on their enemies to show these nations they conquered which nation

> (Israel) was supported by God, and what God could do for a people that

> believed in Him.

That has always scared me - probably because I first learned some of

these Bible stories during the worst part of the Vietnam war. When the

USA army suffered horrible casualties at the hands of a much smaller

nation (Vietnam), someone could presumably have used the same logic to

claim that God supported Vietnam against the USA.

Also, I've always wondered why God wouldn't show the nations His

power through something that *didn't* look exactly like today's worst

examples of " ethnic cleansing " ? Why didn't God do something equally

impressive but non-destructive - as a warning, at least, before the

real smiting? Given that God (according to the Bible) can create

pillars of fire and smoke, how about (for example) fiery letters in

the sky, along with a mighty voice, saying " Attention: I'm on this

side [fiery arrow pointing to Israelite army] - convert, or you WILL

feel My wrath - Yours truly, the Maker of Heaven and Earth " ?

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

[Guest guest]

Remember that in the OT God has clearly stated that Israelis are His

chosen people and they will remain such for all time as long as the

israelis are faithful to Him.

God makes no such promises to any other nation or group of people

except Christians in the New Testament where he promises rewards in

Heaven for those who suffer on God's behalf.

I believe that God's promise to the Israeli people has never

waivered. In the last century, you had a nation of devoted followers

for Israel and you had the entire Arab world conspiring to destroy

them. Though Arabs had the advantage logistically, in terms of

ground forces, and in terms of number of troops, not only did Israel

defeat the Arabs, but they conquered additional territory as well.

By contrast, Hussein claimed Allah would cause the US to be defeated

in the " Mother of all Battles. " The Mother of all Battles occured

(twice), but it was Hussein who was defeated and eventually deposed.

Could it be that the resason for this was that thge US defended

Israeli in Gulf War I and God promised to stand by any nation that

support Israel? If the Israelis were able to defeat the Arabs with

fewer men and a lesser amount of military hardware in the Six Day

War, it stands to reason that Hussein, if backed by God, could have

defeated the US.

But in Vietnam, the US was acting in its own interest. Not Israel's.

So it's possible that God remained impartial in the conflict, or

handed victory over to those He felt desaerved it.

Tom

Administrator

" The Bible states that God had the Israelis inflict horrible

casualties on their enemies to show these nations they conquered

which nation(Israel) was supported by God, and what God could do for

a people that believed in Him. "

Kate replied:

That has always scared me - probably because I first learned some of

these Bible stories during the worst part of the Vietnam war. When

the

USA army suffered horrible casualties at the hands of a much smaller

nation (Vietnam), someone could presumably have used the same logic

to

claim that God supported Vietnam against the USA.

[Guest guest]

Tom, please...

Can't you save this for your Christian forum so that those who wish to

discuss it can join you there?

Inger

Re: Satanism

Remember that in the OT God has clearly stated that Israelis are His

chosen people and they will remain such for all time as long as the

israelis are faithful to Him.

God makes no such promises to any other nation or group of people

except Christians in the New Testament where he promises rewards in

Heaven for those who suffer on God's behalf.

I believe that God's promise to the Israeli people has never

waivered. In the last century, you had a nation of devoted followers

for Israel and you had the entire Arab world conspiring to destroy

them. Though Arabs had the advantage logistically, in terms of

ground forces, and in terms of number of troops, not only did Israel

defeat the Arabs, but they conquered additional territory as well.

By contrast, Hussein claimed Allah would cause the US to be defeated

in the " Mother of all Battles. " The Mother of all Battles occured

(twice), but it was Hussein who was defeated and eventually deposed.

Could it be that the resason for this was that thge US defended

Israeli in Gulf War I and God promised to stand by any nation that

support Israel? If the Israelis were able to defeat the Arabs with

fewer men and a lesser amount of military hardware in the Six Day

War, it stands to reason that Hussein, if backed by God, could have

defeated the US.

But in Vietnam, the US was acting in its own interest. Not Israel's.

So it's possible that God remained impartial in the conflict, or

handed victory over to those He felt desaerved it.

Tom

Administrator

" The Bible states that God had the Israelis inflict horrible

casualties on their enemies to show these nations they conquered

which nation(Israel) was supported by God, and what God could do for

a people that believed in Him. "

Kate replied:

That has always scared me - probably because I first learned some of

these Bible stories during the worst part of the Vietnam war. When

the

USA army suffered horrible casualties at the hands of a much smaller

nation (Vietnam), someone could presumably have used the same logic

to

claim that God supported Vietnam against the USA.

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