Re: Roots of poor eye contact

[Guest guest]

I agree - also, I get nauseated looking at eyes because they always move

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

[Guest guest]

Yeah - definitely - eye contact is a threat generally - or at least

that is how I view it - the only times I will stare someone straight in

the eyes is if I am either challenging them or intimately involved with

them - or maybe both :-)

>

> I just thought of something regarding our poor eye contact. I feel as

> though the person I'm talking to is challenging me with their

> unwavering eye contact and conversely, I feel I'm challenging them if

I

> give them unwavering eye contact. That it's too intense and personal.

> In the animal world, eye contact is considered a challenge. If the

> other animal wants to respond to the challenge they give eye contact

> back, if not, they purposefully don't make eye contact. If an animal

is

> afraid or aggressive you're not supposed to give eye contact. Does

> anyone think that our lack of eye contact is related to this?

>

[Guest guest]

mikecarrie01 wrote:

>I just thought of something regarding our poor eye contact. I feel as

>though the person I'm talking to is challenging me with their

>unwavering eye contact and conversely, I feel I'm challenging them if I

>give them unwavering eye contact. That it's too intense and personal.

>In the animal world, eye contact is considered a challenge. If the

>other animal wants to respond to the challenge they give eye contact

>back, if not, they purposefully don't make eye contact. If an animal is

>afraid or aggressive you're not supposed to give eye contact. Does

>anyone think that our lack of eye contact is related to this?

>

>

>

Yeah I thought the same thing, this is also part of why I get along

better with animals I think. Although not all eye contact with them is a

challenge.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

mikecarrie01 wrote:

>I just thought of something regarding our poor eye contact. I feel as

>though the person I'm talking to is challenging me with their

>unwavering eye contact and conversely, I feel I'm challenging them if I

>give them unwavering eye contact. That it's too intense and personal.

>In the animal world, eye contact is considered a challenge. If the

>other animal wants to respond to the challenge they give eye contact

>back, if not, they purposefully don't make eye contact. If an animal is

>afraid or aggressive you're not supposed to give eye contact. Does

>anyone think that our lack of eye contact is related to this?

>

>

>

Yeah I thought the same thing, this is also part of why I get along

better with animals I think. Although not all eye contact with them is a

challenge.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

" Yeah I thought the same thing, this is also part of why I get along

better with animals I think. Although not all eye contact with them

is a challenge.

>

> Lwaxy "

Yeah this is true - my female cat loves me to stare into her eyes

whilst I am petting her - she even seeks eye contact out - the male

cat couldn't give a stuff - as long as he's been petted he doesn't

care :-) The female cat btw is the more sensitive of the two - I

think she likes me to give her 100% undivided attention too, one her

terms :-)

>

> >I just thought of something regarding our poor eye contact. I feel

as

> >though the person I'm talking to is challenging me with their

> >unwavering eye contact and conversely, I feel I'm challenging them

if I

> >give them unwavering eye contact. That it's too intense and

personal.

> >In the animal world, eye contact is considered a challenge. If the

> >other animal wants to respond to the challenge they give eye

contact

> >back, if not, they purposefully don't make eye contact. If an

animal is

> >afraid or aggressive you're not supposed to give eye contact. Does

> >anyone think that our lack of eye contact is related to this?

> >

> >

> >

> Yeah I thought the same thing, this is also part of why I get along

> better with animals I think. Although not all eye contact with them

is a

> challenge.

>

> Lwaxy

>

[Guest guest]

" Yeah I thought the same thing, this is also part of why I get along

better with animals I think. Although not all eye contact with them

is a challenge.

>

> Lwaxy "

Yeah this is true - my female cat loves me to stare into her eyes

whilst I am petting her - she even seeks eye contact out - the male

cat couldn't give a stuff - as long as he's been petted he doesn't

care :-) The female cat btw is the more sensitive of the two - I

think she likes me to give her 100% undivided attention too, one her

terms :-)

>

> >I just thought of something regarding our poor eye contact. I feel

as

> >though the person I'm talking to is challenging me with their

> >unwavering eye contact and conversely, I feel I'm challenging them

if I

> >give them unwavering eye contact. That it's too intense and

personal.

> >In the animal world, eye contact is considered a challenge. If the

> >other animal wants to respond to the challenge they give eye

contact

> >back, if not, they purposefully don't make eye contact. If an

animal is

> >afraid or aggressive you're not supposed to give eye contact. Does

> >anyone think that our lack of eye contact is related to this?

> >

> >

> >

> Yeah I thought the same thing, this is also part of why I get along

> better with animals I think. Although not all eye contact with them

is a

> challenge.

>

> Lwaxy

>

[Guest guest]

>

> >I just thought of something regarding our poor eye contact. I feel as

> >though the person I'm talking to is challenging me with their

> >unwavering eye contact and conversely, I feel I'm challenging them if

I

> >give them unwavering eye contact. That it's too intense and personal.

> >In the animal world, eye contact is considered a challenge. If the

> >other animal wants to respond to the challenge they give eye contact

> >back, if not, they purposefully don't make eye contact. If an animal

is

> >afraid or aggressive you're not supposed to give eye contact. Does

> >anyone think that our lack of eye contact is related to this?

> >

> >

> >

> Yeah I thought the same thing, this is also part of why I get along

> better with animals I think. Although not all eye contact with them is

a

> challenge.

>

> Lwaxy

>

My dog would always win a staring contest! I'd look away first. But she

was not dominant or pack leader. I think it was trust and love. I find I

can mostly (not completely) keep eye contact with people I love and

trust who I'm comfortable with. So maybe it's a 'challenge' when two

people face each other (talk) who are strangers or just aquaintances.

(Thank goodness aspies don't feel the need to smell the other person!)

It always puzzles me how non-Aspies can talk so easily with strangers or

people they don't know well and they seem to trust until proven

otherwise, and it often takes a lot of proof for them to believe anyone

is other than a potential friend.

[Guest guest]

> >

> > >I just thought of something regarding our poor eye contact. I

feel

> as

> > >though the person I'm talking to is challenging me with their

> > >unwavering eye contact and conversely, I feel I'm challenging

them

> if I

> > >give them unwavering eye contact. That it's too intense and

> personal.

> > >In the animal world, eye contact is considered a challenge. If

the

> > >other animal wants to respond to the challenge they give eye

> contact

> > >back, if not, they purposefully don't make eye contact. If an

> animal is

> > >afraid or aggressive you're not supposed to give eye contact.

Does

> > >anyone think that our lack of eye contact is related to this?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > Yeah I thought the same thing, this is also part of why I get

along

> > better with animals I think. Although not all eye contact with

them

> is a

> > challenge.

> >

> > Lwaxy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > >I just thought of something regarding our poor eye contact. I

feel as

> > >though the person I'm talking to is challenging me with their

> > >unwavering eye contact and conversely, I feel I'm challenging

them if

> I

> > >give them unwavering eye contact. That it's too intense and

personal.

> > >In the animal world, eye contact is considered a challenge. If

the

> > >other animal wants to respond to the challenge they give eye

contact

> > >back, if not, they purposefully don't make eye contact. If an

animal

> is

> > >afraid or aggressive you're not supposed to give eye contact.

Does

> > >anyone think that our lack of eye contact is related to this?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > Yeah I thought the same thing, this is also part of why I get

along

> > better with animals I think. Although not all eye contact with

them is

> a

> > challenge.

> >

> > Lwaxy

> >

> My dog would always win a staring contest! I'd look away first.

But she

> was not dominant or pack leader. I think it was trust and love. I

find I

> can mostly (not completely) keep eye contact with people I love and

> trust who I'm comfortable with. So maybe it's a 'challenge' when

two

> people face each other (talk) who are strangers or just

aquaintances.

> (Thank goodness aspies don't feel the need to smell the other

person!)

> It always puzzles me how non-Aspies can talk so easily with

strangers or

> people they don't know well and they seem to trust until proven

> otherwise, and it often takes a lot of proof for them to believe

anyone

> is other than a potential friend.

>

I'm NT and I don't especially like to talk to strangers. I'm shy

until I get to know someone. Do any of you have a 6th sense about

people? My boys are aspie and when they meet someone in church for

instance they will take an instant dislike to someone who in my eyes

does not deserve it. HOWEVER, they have told me that a particular

person was 'evil' (their words) and later it has proven to be that

this particular person eventually shows their 'true colors' and is

really not such a nice person after all. They have done this with a

least 5 people that I can think of right now and their instinct has

proven to be true. I just wondered if this is an aspie thing or just

something that they have?

[Guest guest]

..

> >

> I'm NT and I don't especially like to talk to strangers. I'm shy

> until I get to know someone. Do any of you have a 6th sense about

> people? My boys are aspie and when they meet someone in church for

> instance they will take an instant dislike to someone who in my

eyes

> does not deserve it. HOWEVER, they have told me that a particular

> person was 'evil' (their words) and later it has proven to be that

> this particular person eventually shows their 'true colors' and is

> really not such a nice person after all. They have done this with a

> least 5 people that I can think of right now and their instinct has

> proven to be true. I just wondered if this is an aspie thing or

just

> something that they have?

I've always felt that non-Aspies in general seem to be more trusting

and feel part of a group whereas we kind of stand back a little and

observe. I have thought that many non-Aspies will judge more on

personality--they'll dislike someone's personality though the person

may be nice, or they'll miss that someone is not nice and say that

it's just their personality. I don't know about the 6th sense with

Aspies. I've noticed by Aspies' comments that some do have it. Maybe

someone can elaborate more on that. I have a kind of esp/empathic

ability that lets me pick up emotions and vibes and sometimes

thoughts of others. I usually like a person a lot or dislike person a

lot right away (though most people I feel neutral about) and am often

right (though sometimes wrong so I'm careful to suspend judgement).

Our little 7-year old Aspie 'nephew' is better than average at

assessing people, especially for his age, being only 7 (though he

seems more like 9 years old in general.)

[Guest guest]

Aspies get a bad rap for not having empathy.

However, one of the things most people don't realize is that many

Aspies seem to understand Aspie and non-Aspie behavior, whereas non-

Aspies are clueless as to why Aspies behave the way they do.

Many times we see what is necessary to be socially accepted among

non-Aspies but to behave that way would not only be out of character

for us, but demeaning. We would be short-changing ourselves in order

to be socially accepted in other words.

Aspies are also good at recognizing patterns in things, and so we

see non-Aspies performing certain social niceties as a matter of

course, but we know it's all a put on.

My person observation is that non-Aspie socialization is primarily

motivated by selfishness. You treat somebody nicely and tell them

what they want to hear because sooner of later you may need to hit

them up for money, or help, or a free meal.

Aspies scorn this behavior. We say " socially inappropriate " things

merely because what we say is the truth as we see it, and we believe

the truth is more beneficial to people than what people want to hear.

I too can peg someone and their personality type just by observing

them for a while.

This works to my personal advantage when dealing with shyster-like

people, but works against me in that shyster-like people hate it

when you can see through them and will permanently hold it against

you and even persecute you to shut you up, so that other people

don't find out who they really are by your telling them.

Another thing is the matter of self-esteem. What other people think

about me is something I could care less about unless it is a person

I care about. But non-Aspies seem to need to be buttered up ALL THE

TIME or they are not as likely to keep you as a friend or a closely

held acquaintance.

For me friendships are not about what you can get out of them. They

are much closer than that. They are a bonding of souls.

Everyone has flaws and everyone has less than tasteful attributes.

Aspies tend to accept others despite these flaws and attributes if

they see that the core person is good. But if the person is merely a

falsely projected image of who they really are, Aspies don't want

anything to do with them.

This is why Aspies don't have many friends:

A) Aspies won't hang around with " fake people. "

People don't like us because we see through them and won't butter

them up.

Also:

C) People seem to assume that Aspies walk around thinking we are

better than everybody.

Such is not the case. We may use particular diction, correct people

on errors in facts, try to hold them accountable to truth, and will

buck the system when the system is just silly, flawed, or evil.

While we can respect others for doing things that we may not do

ourselves, people scorn us for what we do, how we act, and what we

believe.

And so when we encounter people who are exactly like ones we have

met before, who are fake, and need buttering up in order for them to

give you the time of day, and who scorn you for trying to be good

and truthful, we will simply avoid them, and, because we love the

ones we hold dear to us, discourage our loved ones from getting

involved with them.

Tom

Administrator

I'm NT and I don't especially like to talk to strangers. I'm shy

until I get to know someone. Do any of you have a 6th sense about

people? My boys are aspie and when they meet someone in church for

instance they will take an instant dislike to someone who in my eyes

does not deserve it. HOWEVER, they have told me that a particular

person was 'evil' (their words) and later it has proven to be that

this particular person eventually shows their 'true colors' and is

really not such a nice person after all. They have done this with a

least 5 people that I can think of right now and their instinct has

proven to be true. I just wondered if this is an aspie thing or just

something that they have?

[Guest guest]

Aspies get a bad rap for not having empathy.

However, one of the things most people don't realize is that many

Aspies seem to understand Aspie and non-Aspie behavior, whereas non-

Aspies are clueless as to why Aspies behave the way they do.

Many times we see what is necessary to be socially accepted among

non-Aspies but to behave that way would not only be out of character

for us, but demeaning. We would be short-changing ourselves in order

to be socially accepted in other words.

Aspies are also good at recognizing patterns in things, and so we

see non-Aspies performing certain social niceties as a matter of

course, but we know it's all a put on.

My person observation is that non-Aspie socialization is primarily

motivated by selfishness. You treat somebody nicely and tell them

what they want to hear because sooner of later you may need to hit

them up for money, or help, or a free meal.

Aspies scorn this behavior. We say " socially inappropriate " things

merely because what we say is the truth as we see it, and we believe

the truth is more beneficial to people than what people want to hear.

I too can peg someone and their personality type just by observing

them for a while.

This works to my personal advantage when dealing with shyster-like

people, but works against me in that shyster-like people hate it

when you can see through them and will permanently hold it against

you and even persecute you to shut you up, so that other people

don't find out who they really are by your telling them.

Another thing is the matter of self-esteem. What other people think

about me is something I could care less about unless it is a person

I care about. But non-Aspies seem to need to be buttered up ALL THE

TIME or they are not as likely to keep you as a friend or a closely

held acquaintance.

For me friendships are not about what you can get out of them. They

are much closer than that. They are a bonding of souls.

Everyone has flaws and everyone has less than tasteful attributes.

Aspies tend to accept others despite these flaws and attributes if

they see that the core person is good. But if the person is merely a

falsely projected image of who they really are, Aspies don't want

anything to do with them.

This is why Aspies don't have many friends:

A) Aspies won't hang around with " fake people. "

People don't like us because we see through them and won't butter

them up.

Also:

C) People seem to assume that Aspies walk around thinking we are

better than everybody.

Such is not the case. We may use particular diction, correct people

on errors in facts, try to hold them accountable to truth, and will

buck the system when the system is just silly, flawed, or evil.

While we can respect others for doing things that we may not do

ourselves, people scorn us for what we do, how we act, and what we

believe.

And so when we encounter people who are exactly like ones we have

met before, who are fake, and need buttering up in order for them to

give you the time of day, and who scorn you for trying to be good

and truthful, we will simply avoid them, and, because we love the

ones we hold dear to us, discourage our loved ones from getting

involved with them.

Tom

Administrator

I'm NT and I don't especially like to talk to strangers. I'm shy

until I get to know someone. Do any of you have a 6th sense about

people? My boys are aspie and when they meet someone in church for

instance they will take an instant dislike to someone who in my eyes

does not deserve it. HOWEVER, they have told me that a particular

person was 'evil' (their words) and later it has proven to be that

this particular person eventually shows their 'true colors' and is

really not such a nice person after all. They have done this with a

least 5 people that I can think of right now and their instinct has

proven to be true. I just wondered if this is an aspie thing or just

something that they have?

[Guest guest]

I often think of it more or less in that respect alot of the time. environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: Aspies get a bad rap for not having empathy.However, one of the things most people don't realize is that many Aspies seem to understand Aspie and non-Aspie behavior, whereas non-Aspies are clueless as to why Aspies behave the way they do. Many times we see what is necessary to be socially accepted among non-Aspies but to behave that way would not only be out of character for us, but demeaning. We would be short-changing ourselves in order to be socially accepted in other words. Aspies are also good at recognizing patterns in things, and so we see non-Aspies performing certain social niceties as a matter of course, but we know it's all a put on. My person observation is that

non-Aspie socialization is primarily motivated by selfishness. You treat somebody nicely and tell them what they want to hear because sooner of later you may need to hit them up for money, or help, or a free meal. Aspies scorn this behavior. We say "socially inappropriate" things merely because what we say is the truth as we see it, and we believe the truth is more beneficial to people than what people want to hear.I too can peg someone and their personality type just by observing them for a while.This works to my personal advantage when dealing with shyster-like people, but works against me in that shyster-like people hate it when you can see through them and will permanently hold it against you and even persecute you to shut you up, so that other people don't find out who they really are by your telling them.Another thing is the matter of self-esteem. What other people think about me is something I could

care less about unless it is a person I care about. But non-Aspies seem to need to be buttered up ALL THE TIME or they are not as likely to keep you as a friend or a closely held acquaintance. For me friendships are not about what you can get out of them. They are much closer than that. They are a bonding of souls.Everyone has flaws and everyone has less than tasteful attributes. Aspies tend to accept others despite these flaws and attributes if they see that the core person is good. But if the person is merely a falsely projected image of who they really are, Aspies don't want anything to do with them.This is why Aspies don't have many friends:A) Aspies won't hang around with "fake people."B) People don't like us because we see through them and won't butter them up.Also:C) People seem to assume that Aspies walk around thinking we are better than everybody.Such is not the case. We may

use particular diction, correct people on errors in facts, try to hold them accountable to truth, and will buck the system when the system is just silly, flawed, or evil. While we can respect others for doing things that we may not do ourselves, people scorn us for what we do, how we act, and what we believe.And so when we encounter people who are exactly like ones we have met before, who are fake, and need buttering up in order for them to give you the time of day, and who scorn you for trying to be good and truthful, we will simply avoid them, and, because we love the ones we hold dear to us, discourage our loved ones from getting involved with them.TomAdministratorI'm NT and I don't especially like to talk to strangers. I'm shyuntil I get to know someone. Do any of you have a 6th sense aboutpeople? My boys are

aspie and when they meet someone in church forinstance they will take an instant dislike to someone who in my eyesdoes not deserve it. HOWEVER, they have told me that a particularperson was 'evil' (their words) and later it has proven to be thatthis particular person eventually shows their 'true colors' and isreally not such a nice person after all. They have done this with aleast 5 people that I can think of right now and their instinct hasproven to be true. I just wondered if this is an aspie thing or justsomething that they have?

Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

[Guest guest]

Eye contact is something I just do not like, I wish there was no such thing. I've always had to much empathy of depth, such as in abstract (creativity and intelectually, yet mostly hidden) thought and or internally but not in person expressionally. However when in person, its extremely difficult. Some mock creative acts of empathy by saying its being a psychopath. I could care to much about things I should not be caring for, but not show it either but mean it if I do things or express them. Such as while in business a homeless veteran I helped

out and he had a place to stay. I found him annoying; he talked funny and was a daily intrusion but a mild entertainment. In general despite empathy differences, such as non-superficiality and genuine intents, I’d say I’m generally mad that I am seemingly not partaking with the rest of it. Can empathy be different in certain individuals just expressed uniquely and individually, or shall the stereotype stand. Also males are brought up to not really show emotion, or act tuff such as the

saying are you man enough? Well this gender identitisms and social ego stuff is nonsense, honestly psychopaths are conditioned likewise evolutionary. environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: Aspies get a bad rap for not having empathy.However, one of the things most people don't realize is that many Aspies seem to understand Aspie and non-Aspie behavior, whereas non-Aspies are clueless as to why Aspies behave the way they do. Many times we see what is necessary to be socially accepted among non-Aspies but to behave that way would not only be out of character for us, but

demeaning. We would be short-changing ourselves in order to be socially accepted in other words. Aspies are also good at recognizing patterns in things, and so we see non-Aspies performing certain social niceties as a matter of course, but we know it's all a put on. My person observation is that non-Aspie socialization is primarily motivated by selfishness. You treat somebody nicely and tell them what they want to hear because sooner of later you may need to hit them up for money, or help, or a free meal. Aspies scorn this behavior. We say "socially inappropriate" things merely because what we say is the truth as we see it, and we believe the truth is more beneficial to people than what people want to hear.I too can peg someone and their personality type just by observing them for a while.This works to my personal advantage when dealing with shyster-like people, but works against me in that shyster-like

people hate it when you can see through them and will permanently hold it against you and even persecute you to shut you up, so that other people don't find out who they really are by your telling them.Another thing is the matter of self-esteem. What other people think about me is something I could care less about unless it is a person I care about. But non-Aspies seem to need to be buttered up ALL THE TIME or they are not as likely to keep you as a friend or a closely held acquaintance. For me friendships are not about what you can get out of them. They are much closer than that. They are a bonding of souls.Everyone has flaws and everyone has less than tasteful attributes. Aspies tend to accept others despite these flaws and attributes if they see that the core person is good. But if the person is merely a falsely projected image of who they really are, Aspies don't want anything to do with them.This is

why Aspies don't have many friends:A) Aspies won't hang around with "fake people."B) People don't like us because we see through them and won't butter them up.Also:C) People seem to assume that Aspies walk around thinking we are better than everybody.Such is not the case. We may use particular diction, correct people on errors in facts, try to hold them accountable to truth, and will buck the system when the system is just silly, flawed, or evil. While we can respect others for doing things that we may not do ourselves, people scorn us for what we do, how we act, and what we believe.And so when we encounter people who are exactly like ones we have met before, who are fake, and need buttering up in order for them to give you the time of day, and who scorn you for trying to be good and truthful, we will simply avoid them, and, because we love the ones we hold dear to us, discourage our loved

ones from getting involved with them.I'm from this planet, the rest of you are not.Please go back to Mars or Venushttp://www.simplecomplexities.org/community/

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

[Guest guest]

We need to stop calling it " poor eye contact " as if this behavior had

something bad about it.

How about calling it " eye respect " ? (We instinctively feel enough

respect for others not to stare at their eyes even if they stare at

ours - we don't cast our glance, like a challenge, into their faces.)

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

[Guest guest]

> > Aspies get a bad rap for not having empathy.> > However, one of the things most people don't realize is that many > Aspies seem to understand Aspie and non-Aspie behavior, whereas non-> Aspies are clueless as to why Aspies behave the way they do. > > Many times we see what is necessary to be socially accepted among > non-Aspies but to behave that way would not only be out of character > for us, but demeaning. We would be short-changing ourselves in order > to be socially accepted in other words. > > Aspies are also good at recognizing patterns in things, and so we > see non-Aspies performing certain social niceties as a matter of > course, but we know it's all a put on. > > My person observation is that non-Aspie socialization is primarily > motivated by selfishness. You treat somebody nicely and tell them > what they want to hear because sooner of later you may need to hit > them up for money, or help, or a free meal. > > Aspies scorn this behavior. We say "socially inappropriate" things > merely because what we say is the truth as we see it, and we believe > the truth is more beneficial to people than what people want to hear.> > I too can peg someone and their personality type just by observing > them for a while.> > This works to my personal advantage when dealing with shyster-like > people, but works against me in that shyster-like people hate it > when you can see through them and will permanently hold it against > you and even persecute you to shut you up, so that other people > don't find out who they really are by your telling them.> > Another thing is the matter of self-esteem. What other people think > about me is something I could care less about unless it is a person > I care about. But non-Aspies seem to need to be buttered up ALL THE > TIME or they are not as likely to keep you as a friend or a closely > held acquaintance. > > For me friendships are not about what you can get out of them. They > are much closer than that. They are a bonding of souls.> > Everyone has flaws and everyone has less than tasteful attributes. > Aspies tend to accept others despite these flaws and attributes if > they see that the core person is good. But if the person is merely a > falsely projected image of who they really are, Aspies don't want > anything to do with them.> > This is why Aspies don't have many friends:> > A) Aspies won't hang around with "fake people."> People don't like us because we see through them and won't butter > them up.> > Also:> > C) People seem to assume that Aspies walk around thinking we are > better than everybody.> > Such is not the case. We may use particular diction, correct people > on errors in facts, try to hold them accountable to truth, and will > buck the system when the system is just silly, flawed, or evil. > > While we can respect others for doing things that we may not do > ourselves, people scorn us for what we do, how we act, and what we > believe.> > And so when we encounter people who are exactly like ones we have > met before, who are fake, and need buttering up in order for them to > give you the time of day, and who scorn you for trying to be good > and truthful, we will simply avoid them, and, because we love the > ones we hold dear to us, discourage our loved ones from getting > involved with them.> > > > I'm from this planet, the rest of you are not.> Please go back to Mars or Venus> http://www.simplecomplexities.org/community/> > ---------------------------------> > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.>

[Guest guest]

Yeah! I like that!!! Eye respect. (you can even make puns out of

it: " Eye respect you by not staring into your eyes. " )'We don't cast

our glance, like a challenge into their faces.' Yes!

>

> We need to stop calling it " poor eye contact " as if this behavior

had

> something bad about it.

>

> How about calling it " eye respect " ? (We instinctively feel enough

> respect for others not to stare at their eyes even if they stare at

> ours - we don't cast our glance, like a challenge, into their

faces.)

>

>

> Yours for better letters,

> Kate Gladstone

> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> handwritingrepair@...

> http://learn.to/handwrite,

http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> 325 South Manning Boulevard

> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> telephone 518/482-6763

> AND REMEMBER ...

> you can order books through my site!

> (Amazon.com link -

> I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah 'eye respect' would be good.

I have problems with eye contact, or should I say eye respect :-)but

the more comfortable I am with someone the more I can do it.

Also I have one friend whom I know is touchy feely - but out of

respect she does not do it to me - so in respect back I try to give

some eye contact even though I do find it difficult. I only think it

fair - she finds it hard not touching people :-)

>

> We need to stop calling it " poor eye contact " as if this behavior

had

> something bad about it.

>

> How about calling it " eye respect " ? (We instinctively feel enough

> respect for others not to stare at their eyes even if they stare at

> ours - we don't cast our glance, like a challenge, into their

faces.)

>

>

> Yours for better letters,

> Kate Gladstone

> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> handwritingrepair@...

> http://learn.to/handwrite,

http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> 325 South Manning Boulevard

> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> telephone 518/482-6763

> AND REMEMBER ...

> you can order books through my site!

> (Amazon.com link -

> I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

>

[Guest guest]

> .

> > >

> > I'm NT and I don't especially like to talk to strangers. I'm shy

> > until I get to know someone. Do any of you have a 6th sense

about

> > people? My boys are aspie and when they meet someone in church

for

> > instance they will take an instant dislike to someone who in my

> eyes

> > does not deserve it. HOWEVER, they have told me that a

particular

> > person was 'evil' (their words) and later it has proven to be

that

> > this particular person eventually shows their 'true colors' and

is

> > really not such a nice person after all. They have done this

with a

> > least 5 people that I can think of right now and their instinct

has

> > proven to be true. I just wondered if this is an aspie thing or

> just

> > something that they have?

>

>

> I've always felt that non-Aspies in general seem to be more

trusting

> and feel part of a group whereas we kind of stand back a little

and

> observe. I have thought that many non-Aspies will judge more on

> personality--they'll dislike someone's personality though the

person

> may be nice, or they'll miss that someone is not nice and say that

> it's just their personality. I don't know about the 6th sense with

> Aspies. I've noticed by Aspies' comments that some do have it.

Maybe

> someone can elaborate more on that. I have a kind of esp/empathic

> ability that lets me pick up emotions and vibes and sometimes

> thoughts of others. I usually like a person a lot or dislike

person a

> lot right away (though most people I feel neutral about) and am

often

> right (though sometimes wrong so I'm careful to suspend

judgement).

> Our little 7-year old Aspie 'nephew' is better than average at

> assessing people, especially for his age, being only 7 (though he

> seems more like 9 years old in general.)

>

I think you make a good point about standing back and observing.

Thats exactly what the boys do. I think non aspies are more

concerned with getting our two cents in and being a 'part' of the

crowd and aspies don't concern themselves with being a part of it.Or

don't care?

[Guest guest]

" Also males are brought up to not really show emotion, or act tuff

such as the saying are you man enough?

>

> This is very true, especially among white men. I think to some

degree they've been trained from childhood to cut off their feelings

and dissosociate. "

I can assure you it is not just boys. In my family if a woman has a

problem it was generally accepted that she should keep it to herself

and deal with it herself - like if you're going to have a breakdown,

do it quickly, quietely - in private and then get on with your life

as soon as possible. I don't know if this advice was ever any good to

anyone - I think it just taught people to supress their true feelings

and put on a face (act) - but that is how some are brought up in the

UK - stiff upper lip and all.

For me personally to seek help outside the family was considered bad

indeed - like some stigma attached to it - I think some of the family

accept it now, but it is like an old fashioned belief of 'mental

illness' sort of thing - does anyone else get this?

> >

> > Aspies get a bad rap for not having empathy.

> >

> > However, one of the things most people don't realize is that many

> > Aspies seem to understand Aspie and non-Aspie behavior, whereas

non-

> > Aspies are clueless as to why Aspies behave the way they do.

> >

> > Many times we see what is necessary to be socially accepted among

> > non-Aspies but to behave that way would not only be out of

character

> > for us, but demeaning. We would be short-changing ourselves in

order

> > to be socially accepted in other words.

> >

> > Aspies are also good at recognizing patterns in things, and so we

> > see non-Aspies performing certain social niceties as a matter of

> > course, but we know it's all a put on.

> >

> > My person observation is that non-Aspie socialization is primarily

> > motivated by selfishness. You treat somebody nicely and tell them

> > what they want to hear because sooner of later you may need to hit

> > them up for money, or help, or a free meal.

> >

> > Aspies scorn this behavior. We say " socially inappropriate " things

> > merely because what we say is the truth as we see it, and we

believe

> > the truth is more beneficial to people than what people want to

hear.

> >

> > I too can peg someone and their personality type just by observing

> > them for a while.

> >

> > This works to my personal advantage when dealing with shyster-like

> > people, but works against me in that shyster-like people hate it

> > when you can see through them and will permanently hold it against

> > you and even persecute you to shut you up, so that other people

> > don't find out who they really are by your telling them.

> >

> > Another thing is the matter of self-esteem. What other people

think

> > about me is something I could care less about unless it is a

person

> > I care about. But non-Aspies seem to need to be buttered up ALL

THE

> > TIME or they are not as likely to keep you as a friend or a

closely

> > held acquaintance.

> >

> > For me friendships are not about what you can get out of them.

They

> > are much closer than that. They are a bonding of souls.

> >

> > Everyone has flaws and everyone has less than tasteful attributes.

> > Aspies tend to accept others despite these flaws and attributes if

> > they see that the core person is good. But if the person is

merely a

> > falsely projected image of who they really are, Aspies don't want

> > anything to do with them.

> >

> > This is why Aspies don't have many friends:

> >

> > A) Aspies won't hang around with " fake people. "

> > People don't like us because we see through them and won't

butter

> > them up.

> >

> > Also:

> >

> > C) People seem to assume that Aspies walk around thinking we are

> > better than everybody.

> >

> > Such is not the case. We may use particular diction, correct

people

> > on errors in facts, try to hold them accountable to truth, and

will

> > buck the system when the system is just silly, flawed, or evil.

> >

> > While we can respect others for doing things that we may not do

> > ourselves, people scorn us for what we do, how we act, and what we

> > believe.

> >

> > And so when we encounter people who are exactly like ones we have

> > met before, who are fake, and need buttering up in order for them

to

> > give you the time of day, and who scorn you for trying to be good

> > and truthful, we will simply avoid them, and, because we love the

> > ones we hold dear to us, discourage our loved ones from getting

> > involved with them.

> >

> >

> >

> > I'm from this planet, the rest of you are not.

> > Please go back to Mars or Venus

> > http://www.simplecomplexities.org/community/

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> >

> > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I think you make a good point about standing back and observing.

> Thats exactly what the boys do. I think non aspies are more

> concerned with getting our two cents in and being a 'part' of the

> crowd and aspies don't concern themselves with being a part of

it.Or

> don't care?

We care, but to differing degrees and at different times. We all feel

hurt to a degree at not fitting in at some point or points in our

life or situation(s). It can be very painful to know you're different

and though you try you can't fit in. We wouldn't want to be with

others all the time and part of the crowd all the time or involved in

all the conversations, though. I'm sure non-aspies don't want to be

part of the crowd all the time either, everyone needs their down

time. So it's a matter of degree. I know some people (non-aspies) who

absolutely can't stand to be alone at all, ever. (whistles in

amazement, then shudders )We just want to be alone more than non-

aspies and we don't like being a part of a crowd that we don't like

or agree with. There's a few times when I was by myself where I

didn't want to be alone and really wanted to be with others and I

thought it was a terrible thing to feel like that. Being with others

can be a warm, snuggly, happy feeling but it can also be unhappy and

lonely or it can make you change into what the crowd is, can make you

compromise, and you can lose yourself. Being alone can be empty,

scary and lonely and unbalanced and you can find yourself everywhere

you look! A balance is vital, but the right balance for the right

person--ours veers toward more alone time than the average NT.

[Guest guest]

>

> " Also males are brought up to not really show emotion, or act tuff

> such as the saying are you man enough?

> >

> > This is very true, especially among white men. I think to some

> degree they've been trained from childhood to cut off their feelings

> and dissosociate. "

>

> I can assure you it is not just boys. In my family if a woman has a

> problem it was generally accepted that she should keep it to herself

> and deal with it herself - like if you're going to have a breakdown,

> do it quickly, quietely - in private and then get on with your life

> as soon as possible. I don't know if this advice was ever any good to

> anyone - I think it just taught people to supress their true feelings

> and put on a face (act) - but that is how some are brought up in the

> UK - stiff upper lip and all.

>

> For me personally to seek help outside the family was considered bad

> indeed - like some stigma attached to it - I think some of the family

> accept it now, but it is like an old fashioned belief of 'mental

> illness' sort of thing - does anyone else get this?

>

>

>

>Oh, yes, I totally agree. I thought about it after I posted. Women

just have different pressures to not show emotion. Like, it's okay for

men to get angry, but not to cry, whereas for women it's the opposite:

it's okay to cry but not to get angry. And there's a degree to which

we're allowed to show any emotions or true feelings (and ideas--for

women there's more restrictions than for men). And we must use an

acceptable channel to express ourselves. I admit I like the quiet,

calmness (on the surface) of the white culture to some extent (though

the southern white culture is way more reserved than I like) ,

especially since I like quiet and no stress, but I love and envy other

cultures that are more expressive. An example is when my baby nephew

died and I went to the funeral of all white people. When I saw that tiny

coffin I about lost it and I wanted to wail and throw myself on the

coffin as would be done at a black funeral. That's proper grieving (I

can see many saying, no, it's not, it's losing control and acting

ridiculous and that' s not done in public. But someone dying is horrible

and ridiculous, especially a child, and public-shmublic). But 90% of the

people weren't even crying! The other 10% were standing stiffly with a

few tears. People get ill and messed up if they don't grieve properly,

and I see that a lot among whites--having problems because of never

grieving properly.

I agree, too, about the stigma regarding mental illness. It's a huge one

and I'll bet it is in most, if not all, cultures, and among men and

women, but more so with men.

[Guest guest]

> >

>

> > I think you make a good point about standing back and observing.

> > Thats exactly what the boys do. I think non aspies are more

> > concerned with getting our two cents in and being a 'part' of

the

> > crowd and aspies don't concern themselves with being a part of

> it.Or

> > don't care?

>

> We care, but to differing degrees and at different times. We all

feel

> hurt to a degree at not fitting in at some point or points in our

> life or situation(s). It can be very painful to know you're

different

> and though you try you can't fit in. We wouldn't want to be with

> others all the time and part of the crowd all the time or involved

in

> all the conversations, though. I'm sure non-aspies don't want to

be

> part of the crowd all the time either, everyone needs their down

> time. So it's a matter of degree. I know some people (non-aspies)

who

> absolutely can't stand to be alone at all, ever. (whistles in

> amazement, then shudders )We just want to be alone more than

non-

> aspies and we don't like being a part of a crowd that we don't

like

> or agree with. There's a few times when I was by myself where I

> didn't want to be alone and really wanted to be with others and I

> thought it was a terrible thing to feel like that. Being with

others

> can be a warm, snuggly, happy feeling but it can also be unhappy

and

> lonely or it can make you change into what the crowd is, can make

you

> compromise, and you can lose yourself. Being alone can be empty,

> scary and lonely and unbalanced and you can find yourself

everywhere

> you look! A balance is vital, but the right balance for the right

> person--ours veers toward more alone time than the average NT.

>

Balance- thats the key. Being alone is not a bad thing. I think alot

of non-aspies don't like to be alone because then they have to think

and look at themselves and aren't too happy with what they see. I

find it admirable that aspies don't feel like they have to follow

the crowd. A fine example would be my sons haircutting story. He

didn't care what the other kids would say about his hair. Most 17

yos claim they want to be an individual but they all dress alike,

talk alike and look alike. Following the crowd can surely get you

into trouble alot. Of course being 'different' is uncomfortable for

some people to be around... It would surely be a boring world if we

all thought alike and looked alike. We might as well be robots.

[Guest guest]

> I've always had to much empathy of depth, such as in abstract (creativity and intelectually, yet mostly hidden) thought and or internally but not in person expressionally. However when in person, its extremely difficult. Some mock creative acts of empathy by saying its being a psychopath. This is intriguing. Can you explain it further?Not really, I didnt know what I was talking about to begin with.I'm from this planet, the rest of you are not.Please go back to Mars or Venushttp://www.simplecomplexities.org/community/

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

[Guest guest]

Such complexities, I should get cool glasses and not have to worry about specific eye arrangements. ahh Humans!Kate Gladstone <handwritingrepair@...> wrote: We need to stop calling it "poor eye contact" as if this behavior had something bad about it. How about calling it "eye respect"? (We instinctively feel enough respect for others not to stare at their eyes even if they stare at ours - we don't cast our glance, like a challenge, into their faces.) Yours for better letters, Kate Gladstone Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest handwritingrepair@... http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA telephone 518/482-6763 AND REMEMBER ... you can order books through my site! (Amazon.com link - I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold) I'm from this planet, the rest of you are not.Please go back to Mars or Venushttp://www.simplecomplexities.org/community/

Relax. virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!