Re: Copperfield - an Aspie?

[Guest guest]

I met him once when I was a child. He performed in Richmond, VA when I was around 10 or 12 years old and my mother took me. He was signing autographs after the show and they let me in to get one. I got an autographed black and white picture of him. His autograph looked like some kind of Chinese character. Unfortunately, it was one of the things that disappeared during the move we made shortly after that.

I can still remember meeting him very clearly. He was standing at this counter in the back and genuinely seemed to be having the time of his life. His expression was calm but a big smile and an energy in his eyes.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/9/2005 11:25:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rainbow@... writes:

>Ken: "You elect Bush president. Statue stays, but liberty goes."

Ken,

Isn't this how trouble got started last time?

[Guest guest]

>Inger: "How can you make the Statue of Liberty appear to disappear???"Smoke and mirrors, Inger, smoke and mirrors......  Rainbow

[Guest guest]

LOL! Well, thanks for THAT detailed explanation! Now I can sleep at night again. :-)

Inger

Re: Copperfield - an Aspie?

>Inger: "How can you make the Statue of Liberty appear to disappear???"

Smoke and mirrors, Inger, smoke and mirrors......

Rainbow

[Guest guest]

Cool! :-)

Inger

Re: Re: Copperfield - an Aspie?

I met him once when I was a child. He performed in Richmond, VA when I was around 10 or 12 years old and my mother took me. He was signing autographs after the show and they let me in to get one. I got an autographed black and white picture of him. His autograph looked like some kind of Chinese character. Unfortunately, it was one of the things that disappeared during the move we made shortly after that.

I can still remember meeting him very clearly. He was standing at this counter in the back and genuinely seemed to be having the time of his life. His expression was calm but a big smile and an energy in his eyes.

[Guest guest]

> How can you make

> the Statue of Liberty appear to disappear??? I hate mysteries! :-(

>

> Inger

>

You elect Bush president. Statue stays, but liberty goes.

Ken

[Guest guest]

>Ken: "You elect Bush president. Statue stays, but liberty goes."LMAO!!!  Rainbow

[Guest guest]

Right.

Let's leave Bush out of the discussions, shall we, boys?

Inger

Co-administrator

Re: Re: Copperfield - an Aspie?

In a message dated 12/9/2005 11:25:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rainbow@... writes:

>Ken: "You elect Bush president. Statue stays, but liberty goes."

Ken,

Isn't this how trouble got started last time?

[Guest guest]

From a friend to friends.

>"You know, back in 2000 a Republican friend warned me that if I>voted for>Al Gore and he won, the stock market would tank, we'd lose millions>of jobs>and our military would be totally overstretched.>>You know what: I did vote for Al Gore, he did win, and I'll be>damned if all those things didn't come true."

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/10/2005 12:55:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, inglori@... writes:

Has anyone seen a POLITICIAN you think could be an Aspie?

Not recently. I think some of the Founding Fathers of the US might have been, particularly some of the some of those like Jefferson who did a lot of the actual thinking and less of the political wrangling. Since there was so much of that, probably most of them were not AS.

Since then, I don't really know. I think you would be most likely to find Aspies not as politicians but as advisors and behind the scenes types. I suspect that there have been quite a few of those.

[Guest guest]

I really hate to be such a bore today but - unless anyone things they have AS :-) - is it possible that we could leave both Bush and Gore out of this and get back to talking about AS and Copperfield? Does anyone else think he seems Aspie, or is it just me?

Inger

[Guest guest]

Right, I withdraw the sentiment.

Ken

>

>

> In a message dated 12/9/2005 11:25:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> rainbow@v... writes:

>

> >Ken: " You elect Bush president. Statue stays, but liberty

goes. "

>

>

> Ken,

>

> Isn't this how trouble got started last time?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

me too.

[Guest guest]

Ken:

>> Right, I withdraw the sentiment.

BCW:

> me too.

Thanks guys. :-)

Oooooo, now the most interesting question just popped into my mind!

-> Has anyone seen a POLITICIAN you think could be an Aspie?

Inger

[Guest guest]

Can't think of any. I think Aspies would have a hard time being

effective politicians. Too blunt and truthful, poor dodgers.

Ken

>

> Ken:

>

> >> Right, I withdraw the sentiment.

>

> BCW:

> > me too.

>

> Thanks guys. :-)

>

> Oooooo, now the most interesting question just popped into my mind!

>

> -> Has anyone seen a POLITICIAN you think could be an Aspie?

>

> Inger

>

[Guest guest]

I thought one of the qualifications for being in politics was the

ability to lie effectively - surely that would disqualify most

aspies :-)

That and the majority of poloticians I have seen do not seem to have

the ability to answer a direct question.

>

> Ken:

>

> >> Right, I withdraw the sentiment.

>

> BCW:

> > me too.

>

> Thanks guys. :-)

>

> Oooooo, now the most interesting question just popped into my mind!

>

> -> Has anyone seen a POLITICIAN you think could be an Aspie?

>

> Inger

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/10/2005 8:53:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, apeasant@... writes:

I have come across books that professing to be able to teach the 'social skills' that Aspies seem to lack. Is this possible? Do Aspie's spend the rest of their lives using these skills to examine every significant, interpersonal contact like the proverbial "bug in a jar?" If Aspergers Syndrome is hardwired into the brain at conception, or in the following nine months, how can the skills be attained and put into practice?

Yes, Aspies can learn these skills just like others do. That doesn't mean things will have to be a like a bug in a jar. At first it may feel like that, but that will pass.

One thing that helps is not to learn too many of these skills at one time, but just pick one or two and work on them before moving on to others. It also helps to pick a few skills and get good enough at them that they become almost natural, so you don't have to consciously think about using them. That should suffice for most situations.

[Guest guest]

I'm just starting to catch on to what has been going on in my head all these years. From what I've found on the net and in the OASIS Guide to Aspergers, I almost max out the criteria for Aspergers Syndrome.

I have come across books that professing to be able to teach the 'social skills' that Aspies seem to lack. Is this possible? Do Aspie's spend the rest of their lives using these skills to examine every significant, interpersonal contact like the proverbial "bug in a jar?" If Aspergers Syndrome is hardwired into the brain at conception, or in the following nine months, how can the skills be attained and put into practice?

I am really becoming gun shy in any more 'friendships' or acquaintances. I'm tired of my bluntness and benign honesty being turned against me. I have met a Husband and Wife team who I enjoy being around. UUA members, Garrison Keillor types. But, I find myself second guessing their every move and motive, no matter how kind or generous. I do much better with my horse and the neighbor's dogs.

I beginning to wonder if Jesus Christ was not the Son of any God, just another Aspie. According to the bible: He "committed no sin, nor was guile found in His mouth" (1 Pet. 2:22).

Help!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/10/2005 11:57:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, hug.groups@... writes:

Even NTs would rather die than speak in front of an audience. But with the proper training and opportunity anyone can be taught to be a public speaker. I'm so trained. Am I great at it? No. But I can hold my own.

I can attest to this. In my businesses courses, we had to do a lot of public speaking and presentation which we would be graded officially by the professor and unofficially by the other students.

In the beginning of the courses we all dreaded it. By the end, it wasn't so bad and even introverted me didn't mind so much. Standing up in front of a big crowd would still be hard, but I'd have more confidence about how I would perform than before.

You can even learn small talk. These days I can carry on a limited conversations long enough to last in a shopping line or whatever, most of the time. Usually it doesn't last more than a few exchanges anyway so its not too bad.

[Guest guest]

For whatever it's worth: listen more, talk less; accept who you are,

and the people who count will hang in their with you, the others

aren't worth knowing; choose a livelihood that involves maximum

working alone (e.g., computer programming); have a good sense of humor

about our situation (it does have elements of comedy about it).

Cheers,

Ken

>

> I'm just starting to catch on to what has been going on in my head

all these years. From what I've found on the net and in the OASIS

Guide to Aspergers, I almost max out the criteria for Aspergers Syndrome.

> I have come across books that professing to be able to teach the

'social skills' that Aspies seem to lack. Is this possible? Do

Aspie's spend the rest of their lives using these skills to examine

every significant, interpersonal contact like the proverbial " bug in a

jar? " If Aspergers Syndrome is hardwired into the brain at

conception, or in the following nine months, how can the skills be

attained and put into practice?

> I am really becoming gun shy in any more 'friendships' or

acquaintances. I'm tired of my bluntness and benign honesty being

turned against me. I have met a Husband and Wife team who I enjoy

being around. UUA members, Garrison Keillor types. But, I find

myself second guessing their every move and motive, no matter how kind

or generous. I do much better with my horse and the neighbor's dogs.

> I beginning to wonder if Jesus Christ was not the Son of any God,

just another Aspie. According to the bible: He " committed no sin,

nor was guile found in His mouth " (1 Pet. 2:22).

> Help!

>

[Guest guest]

BCW wrote:

I have come across books that

professing to be able to teach the 'social skills' that Aspies seem to

lack. Is this possible? Do Aspie's spend the rest of their lives

using these skills to examine every significant, interpersonal contact

like the proverbial "bug in a jar?" If Aspergers Syndrome is hardwired

into the brain at conception, or in the following nine months, how can

the skills be attained and put into practice?

Sure it's possible to learn social skills!

I look at it as the same as other skills. Even NTs would rather die

than speak in front of an audience. But with the proper training and

opportunity anyone can be taught to be a public speaker. I'm so

trained. Am I great at it? No. But I can hold my own.

and the zoo.

[Guest guest]

" You can even learn small talk. These days I can carry on a limited

conversations long enough to last in a shopping line or whatever,

most of the time.

Usually it doesn't last more than a few exchanges anyway so its not

too bad. "

Yeah - I learnt to do some small talk, but I still dislike it :-(

Standing at a bus stop someone will approach me and ask if a certain

bus has gone - I will answer them and to me that is the end of the

conversation - unfortunately not always so with the other person.

They will then start to gabble on about the busses the weather,

whatever and I find it very hard to comment other than the odd word -

I also find most small talk mind numbing and boring and don't really

see the point.

>

>

> In a message dated 12/10/2005 11:57:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> hug.groups@g... writes:

>

> Even NTs would rather die than speak in front of an audience. But

with the

> proper training and opportunity anyone can be taught to be a

public speaker.

> I'm so trained. Am I great at it? No. But I can hold my own.

>

>

>

> I can attest to this. In my businesses courses, we had to do a lot

of public

> speaking and presentation which we would be graded officially by

the

> professor and unofficially by the other students.

>

> In the beginning of the courses we all dreaded it. By the end, it

wasn't so

> bad and even introverted me didn't mind so much. Standing up in

front of a

> big crowd would still be hard, but I'd have more confidence about

how I would

> perform than before.

>

> You can even learn small talk. These days I can carry on a limited

> conversations long enough to last in a shopping line or whatever,

most of the time.

> Usually it doesn't last more than a few exchanges anyway so its

not too bad.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/11/2005 7:37:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, julie.stevenson16@... writes:

Yeah - I learnt to do some small talk, but I still dislike it :-( Standing at a bus stop someone will approach me and ask if a certain bus has gone - I will answer them and to me that is the end of the conversation - unfortunately not always so with the other person. They will then start to gabble on about the busses the weather, whatever and I find it very hard to comment other than the odd word - I also find most small talk mind numbing and boring and don't really see the point.

I still don't care for it either, but it is something I can sort of do. There have been times when I've hurried on to get away from people that were too chatty.

[Guest guest]

Tom,

I don't think this is related to Darwinism at all, at least not perhaps in the traditional sense. Darwinian Evolution theory is based only on the propagation of the genetic code. Some traits can be selected for, like speed in the cheetah. It can also be forced selection such as tuskless male elephants surviving the poaches more than the tusked variety, so the tuskless trait is becoming much more common. It can also be a survival trait such as antibiotic resistance in bacteria where only the strong truly do survive.

The problems you described are partly genetic and partly social. Obesity is a genetic tendency built into all of us. Our bodies evolved to pack on fat when times were good so as to be ready for lean times. Today with lots of food available, people get easily store the excess and become fat. Some people are more susceptible than others due to their particular genetics makeup. It makes sense that if people with this tendency breed, especially with others that share the trait, then that trait will be passed on and possibly reinforced.

Case in point. I have a cousin who has always been overweight and I would not be surprised if she'd not be considered morbidly obese now. She married a man who was equally heavy. They had a son who at age 8 weighs more than I do. However, that man had a son by a previous marriage and his weight is normal.

The behavior of the people you mention isn't particularly genetic. That is a social function, a sort of Social Darwinism. What has happened is that the traditional values were abandoned beginning in the 1960's. Other restraints, such as discipline in school, have also been removed. Because of this, we have had a generation brought up by a generation lacking in older civility. This trait has been distilled yet again in the new generation which is why they seem to be so out of control.

People are getting ruder simply because they haven't been taught to behave and there is no penalty for be a lout. People think they have the "right" to do whatever they want no matter how it might annoy or harm others. This attitude is the problem and is not related to genetics so to social factors.

It could be corrected though. Bringing back discipline to the schools, educating parents in civility, and making and enforcing laws against the poor behavior would help.

They have discipline in schools these days, but rather than reining in bullies, it is usually targeted against kids who draw soldiers in class (guns aren't allowed on school property, and the drawing is treated almost like a real gun) and other trivial matters. This nonsense while real crimes go unpunished can't help but undermine student's respect for law and civility.

I don't really see enough people getting behind this to affect a change, however. I think the cities are going to turn into cesspools and soon so will the suburbs. Unfortunately, the situation will probably become so bad that we will end up with a real dictator who promises to restore order. That hasn't happened yet and might not for another generation, but I believe the time will come when the people are willing to give up virtually all their freedoms for the false promise of protection by the state.

[Guest guest]

Tom,

That is interesting. There is a quote by Galileo or Da Vinci, I'll find the quote and write down who said it. It was something to the effect of, "I cannot believe that God would give us the capacity of reason, logic and though and then expect us not to use it."

I do think that we are capable of effecting change for good or bad in ourselves. I also believe that we have limits as to what we can accomplish, but we don't know what they are. God may have created us with potential, but we have to bring it out, or let it lay hidden.

The question is if God created us with potential but we don't use it, why did He bother? The answer is simple: He knows we won't but makes us so anyway. This line of thought is a little confusing but here it is. God knows what is going to happen but we don't. Therefore, from our perspective, our lives are a blank slate for us to do with as we will. So, even though our lives are predetermined in one sense, they are full of possibility from another.

Consider it like watching a movie for the second time. You know exactly what is going to happen, but the characters don't. From your perspective you have seen the future, but from the character's perspective the future is uncertain and full of possibility. In this limited way we can get a glimpse of how God sees our lives and how we fit into the scheme.

That's one theory anyway.