Re: Are We Really Capable of Meaningful Relationships?

[Guest guest]

" Here's a question for all of you. You're diagnosed with Asperger's

Syndrome, and you've worked hard to establish meaningful personal and

professional relationships, and haven't been successful. Are we eally

capable of meaningful relationships? "

I'd like to think so and I'm sure some are, but I myself have not

really had success in the areas mentioned above.

" I've been so hurt by this, that I am no longer capable of feeling

romantic love. "

I'm not sure I even believe in romantic love and wonder if it is all

just an illusion - a feeling but not real; although I am a tad down

at the moment.

Maybe it would be better to focus on what you want and what makes you

happy, rather than your happiness being dependent on having a

significant other.

I think personally relationships are very stressful anyway - but it

would be nice to have a good one - I look on it more as a dream than

reality though and best just to get on with my life.

>

> Here's a question for all of you. You're diagnosed with Asperger's

> Syndrome, and you've worked hard to establish meaningful personal

> and professional relationships, and haven't been successful. Are we

> really capable of meaningful relationships?

>

> I once worked in commercial broadcasting. No matter how hard I

> tried, I have been unable to establish professional relationships,

> especially with members of upper management in that industry. Since

> that industry depends more on dishonesty and connections to upper

> management than honesty and hard work, I saw little or no chance of

> breaking through, especially in corporate broadcasting. I have

> basically severed ties with the commercial broadcast industry;

upper

> management in that industry, even though I never tell them I have

> Asperger's, have very negative attitudes toward hiring ANYONE with

> even a minor disability (and Asperger's Syndrome is considered a

> disability under U.S. law). What good are professional

relationships

> when your hard work has no value? I see no good in it.

>

> I have not been able to establish meaningful personal

relationships,

> especially with those of the opposite sex, over the past twelve

> years. Since I ended my engagement to a developmentally disabled

> woman, I've been focusing on trying to establish meaningful

> relationships with NT women (since a woman with AS is extremely

> rare; AS occurs mostly in males). I've tried everything available

to

> me: church singles and young adult groups, personal ads (both print

> and Internet), even asking friends, co-workers and acquaintances.

> Nothing worked. I even tried online dating; most of the women I met

> online failed to show up for a face-to-face meeting. So, with all

> avenues exhausted, I decided that it was best to give up on finding

> such a relationship, at least in the St. Louis area (where I live).

> The only women I've been able to meet in the St. Louis area have

> been closed-minded, stubborn and don't understand our need for a

> meaningful relationship, especially one that results in marriage. I

> had been looking for a relationship that's also based on a common

> Christian faith. I've been so hurt by this, that I am no longer

> capable of feeling romantic love.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" B. " <BSTL@a...> wrote:

" Here's a question for all of you. <snip> Are we really capable of

meaningful relationships? "

After nearly 37 years of existence, I have cynically determined that

Aspies are more capable of MEANINGFUL relationships that most other

segments of the populations.

However, " meaningful " means different things to different people.

In watching an observing non-Aspies, they appear to " measure " their

relationships using the popular " norm " as their yardstick. If they

have sex more than other couples, go out to eat more, travel more,

talk more, make a better living together financially speaking than

other couples, have more kids (who get higher grades than other

kids) then that is meaningful to them.

For me and Inger, deep conversations where we can really get into

each other's minds is meaningful. Geuininely caring for one another,

listening, supporting, making each other laugh...making every moment

count, in other words, is meaningful.

We could be dirt poor, I suspect, but if we still had that special

meaningful bond, that would be all that matters. That, in my

opinion, is a true relationship.

You said:

" I once worked in commercial broadcasting. No matter how hard I

tried, I have been unable to establish professional relationships,

especially with members of upper management in that industry. "

Look, the industry is cut throat. No one would WANT to establish a

relationship with you because they knew you could be fired the next

day. Take a look at the diseased and dying. Most people avoid them

because

A) They don't want to be reminded that they can die too, and

They don't like being in a an " awkward " situation where they are

happy and in good health while the other person is on their last

legs.

That's probably what they thought of you, and your AS attributes

were not a positive thing in their view either.

" Since that industry depends more on dishonesty and connections to

upper management than honesty and hard work, I saw little or no

chance of breaking through, especially in corporate broadcasting. I

have basically severed ties with the commercial broadcast

industry;... "

Good. As much as you like that work, and as much as it may be what

your best at, and as much as it may be your own personal calling, it

is not worth it to demean yourself and make yourself less of a

person for the sake of personal and material gain.

" ...upper management in that industry, even though I never tell them

I have Asperger's, have very negative attitudes toward hiring ANYONE

with even a minor disability (and Asperger's Syndrome is considered a

disability under U.S. law). What good are professional relationships

when your hard work has no value? I see no good in it. "

There isn't any good in it. Continue to seek out and pursue other

opportunities where your hard work is valued and appreciated.

" I have not been able to establish meaningful personal relationships,

especially with those of the opposite sex, over the past twelve

years. "

Welcome to the club. Inger is the first one I have been able to

establish a meaningful personal relationship with and it has taken

me 35 years to find her. It seems that many Aspies take a long time

to find " the one " and from what I can see, many Aspies NEVER find a

partner that suits their ideals.

" Since I ended my engagement to a developmentally disabled

woman, I've been focusing on trying to establish meaningful

relationships with NT women (since a woman with AS is extremely

rare; AS occurs mostly in males). I've tried everything available to

me: church singles and young adult groups, personal ads (both print

and Internet), even asking friends, co-workers and acquaintances.

Nothing worked. "

Same here.

" I even tried online dating; most of the women I met online failed

to show up for a face-to-face meeting. So, with all avenues

exhausted, I decided that it was best to give up on finding

such a relationship, at least in the St. Louis area (where I live). "

Good.

To other people this may sound defeatist. But I say:

Good.

Pursue your interest and do not allow yourself to be consumed with

these feelings. They are eating you up from the inside out to the

point where ANY prospective woman will see through you and not like

what they see.

What you have to do is abandon the neurotypical mentality that

focusing on yourself is selfish. The fact is, practically all

neurotypicals do is focus on themselves, and so should you. When you

become much happier with who you are, you might look more appealing

to other women.

But I wouldn't hold my breath anyway. Aspies in general are hard to

love, and their personalities are off-putting.

It is usually men that have to pursue women in either the Aspie or

non-Aspie world, and even if women are interested, they may not show

it in ways that Aspies can understand.

" The only women I've been able to meet in the St. Louis area have

been closed-minded, stubborn and don't understand our need for a

meaningful relationship, especially one that results in marriage. "

I would feel good that you discovered this so early, dismiss her,

and move on.

" I had been looking for a relationship that's also based on a common

Christian faith. I've been so hurt by this, that I am no longer

capable of feeling romantic love. "

Being Christian, I have to admit that many Christians are

judgemental, which in turn makes them hypocritical. You have to keep

in mind also that many Christians feel that men have certain roles,

duties and responsibilities and the females have their own. Yet

Aspies may be incapable of fulfilling those roles or their natural

inclinations may be to do other things that are not assigned to us

by our faith.

, here is another way to look at it: For the longest time, all I

was interested in was sex. But I rarely ever got it because I was

rarely ever involved in relationships. Now, with AIDS circulating

around, and most people not showing ANY SIGN of having it for ten

years after contracting HIV, sex can be fatal.

So I stopped thinking about sex, and now that I have, it holds no

real place of importance to me anymore. But interestingly, some

women have seemed to pick up on that fact and have become MORE

attractive to me. They seem to get the idea that I will not be

pressuring them for sex, or making moves on them, and with that

threat removed, perhaps they feel more at ease with the prospect of

just simply dating.

My point is that you are becoming consumed by your anguish and it's

holding you back. I understand how you feel. There is nothing wrong

with your feelings. They are normal. It is frustrating to want what

everyone else appears to have and not being able to get it with all

these strikes against you. Perhaps Aspies are damned to always be a

minority since their true prospects of finding mates and reproducing

seem so limited.

But we cannot let these things take control over us. We have to get

control over these things. , I do wish you would come here and

post more because at least here we can all be supportive of one

another. It may seem that we build each other up whilst

simultaneously retreating from the real world, but I think the

opposite is true.

If we can support one another, perhaps it can cause us to face the

real world with more optimism, and perhaps our optimism will help us

move toward success.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

>: "Are we really capable of meaningful relationships?"Yes!  Rainbow

[Guest guest]

,

I'm really sorry that all your efforts have come to naught. It must

feel very unfair indeed. You seem to be a good and hwarworking man

and I can understand your frustration that such men are no longer

appreciated. Seems neither employers or women have any idea what

they're mising.

that bit about more Aspie men, we don't really know if that's true.

The only thing we know is that more men than women get DIAGNOSED. But

more and more women are getting recognised as Aspies now, or

realizing it themselves, so it should't be totally impossible to find

an Aspie girl. Have you tried 's Aspie dating site?

Inger

>

> Here's a question for all of you. You're diagnosed with Asperger's

> Syndrome, and you've worked hard to establish meaningful personal

> and professional relationships, and haven't been successful. Are we

> really capable of meaningful relationships?

>

> I once worked in commercial broadcasting. No matter how hard I

> tried, I have been unable to establish professional relationships,

> especially with members of upper management in that industry. Since

> that industry depends more on dishonesty and connections to upper

> management than honesty and hard work, I saw little or no chance of

> breaking through, especially in corporate broadcasting. I have

> basically severed ties with the commercial broadcast industry;

upper

> management in that industry, even though I never tell them I have

> Asperger's, have very negative attitudes toward hiring ANYONE with

> even a minor disability (and Asperger's Syndrome is considered a

> disability under U.S. law). What good are professional

relationships

> when your hard work has no value? I see no good in it.

>

> I have not been able to establish meaningful personal

relationships,

> especially with those of the opposite sex, over the past twelve

> years. Since I ended my engagement to a developmentally disabled

> woman, I've been focusing on trying to establish meaningful

> relationships with NT women (since a woman with AS is extremely

> rare; AS occurs mostly in males). I've tried everything available

to

> me: church singles and young adult groups, personal ads (both print

> and Internet), even asking friends, co-workers and acquaintances.

> Nothing worked. I even tried online dating; most of the women I met

> online failed to show up for a face-to-face meeting. So, with all

> avenues exhausted, I decided that it was best to give up on finding

> such a relationship, at least in the St. Louis area (where I live).

> The only women I've been able to meet in the St. Louis area have

> been closed-minded, stubborn and don't understand our need for a

> meaningful relationship, especially one that results in marriage. I

> had been looking for a relationship that's also based on a common

> Christian faith. I've been so hurt by this, that I am no longer

> capable of feeling romantic love.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well I am not official dxed, but I do have a sucessful marriage. I

think my relationship is quite different than how most non-aspies

would view love. It is primarily a meeting of the minds, a

relationship formed on attraction to the other person's mind,

intellect, personality, conversation, etc. Although there is a

physical component to the relationship, it is secondary to the

mental connection and happened only because there was a deeper (non-

physical) connection. It was not your typical romance where you are

entranced with the your love one's face, hair, lips, etc. Perhaps

because I am at least partially faceblind, almost everyone

looks " average " to me. There is also the simple matter that I don't

feel comfortable with most people and I don't feel comfortable with

most people touching me. So when I do find someone who I feel

comfortable with being around and someone I feel comfortable

touching me, it really feels like we belong together.

Certain hobbies and interest tend to have a high percentage of

aspies and might offer some clubs that would be a good place to meet

people. I met my husband though a D & D group. Most D & D players are

fairly aspie. Most D & D players are male as well, and many would

love to have a girlfriend who shares their hobbie. This was one

case where I think it is definately easier to be a female aspie than

a male aspie. I am not sure in general if it is easier for a female

aspie to find someone than a male aspie. I think having lots of

sterotypically males hobbies works in my favor as well. Perhaps I

was just lucky, but it also seems to me that I am also a bit of

magnet to aspie guys.

Perhaps other people can suggest other groups or hobbies. My dad

belongs to a chess club where people actually appreciate his ability

to go long periods without talking.

In terms of co-workers I have some co-workers I get along with

reasonable well, but none that I would concider friends. For

example I would not choose to spend any time outside work with them

in social situations. I know that I do not have the same connection

with co-workers as some of them have with each other, for example I

am generally out of the loop on work related gossip. Some people at

work are friends, but I think most work friendships are fairly

superfical friendships, the kind that do not really appeal to most

aspies. I try to be reasonable nice and polite to my co-workers and

have occasional conversations with them, most of them respond

reasonble well to my efforts which makes the workplace environment

more pleasant. I think it also matters where you work or what type

of profession you are in. Some job places/occupation have a higher

percentage of aspies or aspie personality types where as others are

more NT dominated.

Ilah

>

> Here's a question for all of you. You're diagnosed with Asperger's

> Syndrome, and you've worked hard to establish meaningful personal

> and professional relationships, and haven't been successful. Are

we

> really capable of meaningful relationships?

>

> I once worked in commercial broadcasting. No matter how hard I

> tried, I have been unable to establish professional relationships,

> especially with members of upper management in that industry.

Since

> that industry depends more on dishonesty and connections to upper

> management than honesty and hard work, I saw little or no chance

of

> breaking through, especially in corporate broadcasting. I have

> basically severed ties with the commercial broadcast industry;

upper

> management in that industry, even though I never tell them I have

> Asperger's, have very negative attitudes toward hiring ANYONE with

> even a minor disability (and Asperger's Syndrome is considered a

> disability under U.S. law). What good are professional

relationships

> when your hard work has no value? I see no good in it.

>

> I have not been able to establish meaningful personal

relationships,

> especially with those of the opposite sex, over the past twelve

> years. Since I ended my engagement to a developmentally disabled

> woman, I've been focusing on trying to establish meaningful

> relationships with NT women (since a woman with AS is extremely

> rare; AS occurs mostly in males). I've tried everything available

to

> me: church singles and young adult groups, personal ads (both

print

> and Internet), even asking friends, co-workers and acquaintances.

> Nothing worked. I even tried online dating; most of the women I

met

> online failed to show up for a face-to-face meeting. So, with all

> avenues exhausted, I decided that it was best to give up on

finding

> such a relationship, at least in the St. Louis area (where I

live).

> The only women I've been able to meet in the St. Louis area have

> been closed-minded, stubborn and don't understand our need for a

> meaningful relationship, especially one that results in marriage.

I

> had been looking for a relationship that's also based on a common

> Christian faith. I've been so hurt by this, that I am no longer

> capable of feeling romantic love.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

" After nearly 37 years of existence, I have cynically determined

that Aspies are more capable of MEANINGFUL relationships that most

other segments of the populations. "

Depends on the person, and who you ask.

>

> You said:

>

> " I once worked in commercial broadcasting. No matter how hard I

> tried, I have been unable to establish professional relationships,

> especially with members of upper management in that industry. "

>

" Look, the industry is cut throat. No one would WANT to establish a

relationship with you because they knew you could be fired the next

day. "

The longest period of time I've held a job in radio has been five

years; I've held a radio job for an average of three years. Don't go

telling me I could be fired the next day!

" That's probably what they thought of you, and your AS attributes

were not a positive thing in their view either. "

How on earth would they ever know? I never told them I had AS. I

always came in to the application process with a POSITIVE attitude.

Their view of me was TOTALLY WRONG. I never worked for a major

illegal corporate monopoly (nor do I care to now); no matter how bad

it would have been for me, I should have sued the industry under the

Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990.

" Good. As much as you like that work, and as much as it may be what

you're best at, and as much as it may be your own personal calling,

it is not worth it to demean yourself and make yourself less of a

person for the sake of personal and material gain. "

I had expected it to be my " bread and butter " , but the illegal

consolidation of the industry under the unconstitutional

Telecommunications Act of 1996 changed all of that. The broadcast

industry is the last industry in America where discrimination on the

basis of disability and age are still legal; it is illegal in all

other areas of American business.

" There isn't any good in it. Continue to seek out and pursue other

opportunities where your hard work is valued and appreciated. "

In the United States of America? Most likely not. They value

patronage and cronyism more than hard work.

" Being Christian, I have to admit that many Christians are

judgemental, which in turn makes them hypocritical. "

What's your denomination? I'm a Roman Catholic, and a former

Southern Baptist.

" You have to keep in mind also that many Christians feel that men

have certain roles, duties and responsibilities and the females have

their own. Yet Aspies may be incapable of fulfilling those roles or

their natural inclinations may be to do other things that are not

assigned to us by our faith. "

I do not feel that way. I feel that I should be the one to stay at

home, raise the children and do the household chores, while the wife

goes out and seeks her career. I wouldn't mind working from home,

either. I don't really fit into a " nine-to-five " world; I would much

rather set my own hours.

" For the longest time, all I was interested in was sex. "

Not me. All I was interested in was romance. A hug and a kiss were

good enough for me. Even having the chance to take a young lady to a

nice restaurant was good enough for me. Giving her flowers, gifts

and nice things after knowing her for some time, that was fine by

me. I wanted to save the sex for marriage.

" It is frustrating to want what everyone else appears to have and

not being able to get it with all these strikes against you. Perhaps

Aspies are damned to always be a minority since their true prospects

of finding mates and reproducing seem so limited. "

Perhaps. But, we have a RIGHT to get everything we want, even with

all these strikes against us. We have a RIGHT to a career. We have a

RIGHT to date, get married and have families. No one should ever

stop us from realizing our goals.

" It may seem that we build each other up whilst simultaneously

retreating from the real world, but I think the opposite is true. "

But it isn't the " real world " , only what the self-centered media

claims it to be. We need time to retreat from the so-called " real

world " to reflect on what successes we've had, and try to learn from

our failures. Only then, will we be ready to face the world again.

A defeatist attitude is the wrong attitude to take. You need to

learn from your mistakes.

[Guest guest]

" The longest period of time I've held a job in radio has been five

years; I've held a radio job for an average of three years. Don't go

telling me I could be fired the next day! "

But you could though. In Chicago it's not unusual to come home one

day listening to your favorite radio station which was just put on

the air six months ago and get up the next morning to discover that

your 80's station has been replaced by 70's love songs and all the

DJs have been sacked.

My comment was not directed at your skills or your abilities. It was

directed at how fickle the radio and TV industry actually is.

I had said...

" That's probably what they thought of you, and your AS attributes

were not a positive thing in their view either. "

To which you replied...

" How on earth would they ever know? I never told them I had AS. "

By the way you speak, act, and interact. Those are the attributes

that people see in me and take me to task on, and here are some

attributes specifically:

I have a monotone.

I don't smile.

They think I am never happy.

I am sarcastic.

I talk like a professor.

I have no respect for authority.

I do not each lunch with the rest of my coworkers.

I am a wallflower.

I bounce my leg around and tap my pen alot.

I don't make eye contact with anyone.

I am " too sensitive " to light and sound but " not sensitive enough "

to the lack of heat in our office.

I like the " wrong weather " (rainy days).

I " hate " foods that everybody else loves (pizza).

I am a " picky " eater.

Etc.

Only one of these people at present knows that I have AS, but ALL of

them know I am different.

You said...

" I always came in to the application process with a POSITIVE

attitude. "

It doesn't matter. They will always see you differently.

You said:

" Their view of me was TOTALLY WRONG. "

No. It's entirely correct...from THEIR perspective. The problem is

that they are too obtuse to realize that THEIR perspective isn't the

ONLY perspective.

They are prejudiced.

And because they have made you a minority due to your difference,

you will forever be prejudiced against by those people.

" I never worked for a major illegal corporate monopoly (nor do I

care to now); no matter how bad it would have been for me, I should

have sued the industry under the Americans with Disabilities Act of

1990. "

Yes you should have.

" I had expected it to be my " bread and butter " , but the illegal

consolidation of the industry under the unconstitutional

Telecommunications Act of 1996 changed all of that. The broadcast

industry is the last industry in America where discrimination on the

basis of disability and age are still legal; it is illegal in all

other areas of American business. "

Agreed. Except that I would qualify that statement by saying it is

ONE of the last industries. As you can see from 's statements,

the sales industry also appears to discriminate.

And I would also point out that other people besides those with AS

are also discriminated against but perhaps we just don't see it

because we don't walk around in other people's shoes.

" In the United States of America? Most likely not. They value

patronage and cronyism more than hard work. "

No. They value social interaction and " being social " above

everything else. So do most other countries.

" What's your denomination? I'm a Roman Catholic, and a former

Southern Baptist. "

Missouri Synod Lutheran.

" All I was interested in was romance. A hug and a kiss were

good enough for me. Even having the chance to take a young lady to a

nice restaurant was good enough for me. Giving her flowers, gifts

and nice things after knowing her for some time, that was fine by

me. I wanted to save the sex for marriage. "

And my interactions with women have caused me to unfortunately

deduce that as much as many women SAY that the things you have

listed are what they want, what many women ACTUALLY want is a sugar

daddy who will keep them living in splendor and comfort with sex

when they want it whether it be with you or with a lover that you

either do or don't know about.

To date I have only dated two women who do not fit this mold. Inger

is one of them.

" But, we have a RIGHT to get everything we want, even with all these

strikes against us. We have a RIGHT to a career. We have a

RIGHT to date, get married and have families. No one should ever

stop us from realizing our goals. "

No we don't. Man is the maker of rights, but God and nature give you

none. Set aside your assumptions that RIGHTS are automatically

yours. The only rights you gain for yourself are the ones you earn

or fight for. No one will give you anything in this world because

they are too busy working for their own rights.

" A defeatist attitude is the wrong attitude to take. You need to

learn from your mistakes. "

I have learned to a degree, and am still learning. I do not consider

my attitude defeatest. Pragmatic would be a better descriptor.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

I have to admit something here. Before I knew I was AS I used to

think some AS people (who I didn't know were AS as I'd never heard of

it) were cold and rude and unfriendly. I didn't know that I had

appeared quite that way, because I couldn't see how they saw me,

though I did know to a certain extent that my 'shyness' as I thought

it, was making me look stuck up, so I did think that they could at

least try to be nice and friendly because I had tried hard and had

succeeded to some agree (though I could still not understand how they

could view me as slightly cold or stuck up when I was trying so hard--

I think it is like when you're trying to work out or dance like

someone next to you and because you're mirroring their moves you

think you look like them when you really don't.) Either that, or they

really were uncaring cold people. Of course, now I understand and

support them any way I can. But I see how others view us. I never

imagined that a group of people could show on the outside something

that was so different on the outside because in the NT world, the

inside easily connects with the outside and interacts with the world

around them. Even though I am the kind of person who tries not to

judge people and tries hard to understand others, and stands up for

the underdog or the person who is misjudged or picked on, I still

only had NT ideas to go by, which is all they have, and misjudged my

own people.

>

> " The longest period of time I've held a job in radio has been five

> years; I've held a radio job for an average of three years. Don't go

> telling me I could be fired the next day! "

>

> But you could though. In Chicago it's not unusual to come home one

> day listening to your favorite radio station which was just put on

> the air six months ago and get up the next morning to discover that

> your 80's station has been replaced by 70's love songs and all the

> DJs have been sacked.

>

> My comment was not directed at your skills or your abilities. It

was

> directed at how fickle the radio and TV industry actually is.

>

> I had said...

>

> " That's probably what they thought of you, and your AS attributes

> were not a positive thing in their view either. "

>

> To which you replied...

>

> " How on earth would they ever know? I never told them I had AS. "

>

> By the way you speak, act, and interact. Those are the attributes

> that people see in me and take me to task on, and here are some

> attributes specifically:

>

> I have a monotone.

> I don't smile.

> They think I am never happy.

> I am sarcastic.

> I talk like a professor.

> I have no respect for authority.

> I do not each lunch with the rest of my coworkers.

> I am a wallflower.

> I bounce my leg around and tap my pen alot.

> I don't make eye contact with anyone.

> I am " too sensitive " to light and sound but " not sensitive enough "

> to the lack of heat in our office.

> I like the " wrong weather " (rainy days).

> I " hate " foods that everybody else loves (pizza).

> I am a " picky " eater.

>

> Etc.

>

> Only one of these people at present knows that I have AS, but ALL

of

> them know I am different.

>

> You said...

>

> " I always came in to the application process with a POSITIVE

> attitude. "

>

> It doesn't matter. They will always see you differently.

>

> You said:

>

> " Their view of me was TOTALLY WRONG. "

>

> No. It's entirely correct...from THEIR perspective. The problem is

> that they are too obtuse to realize that THEIR perspective isn't

the

> ONLY perspective.

>

> They are prejudiced.

>

> And because they have made you a minority due to your difference,

> you will forever be prejudiced against by those people.

>

> " I never worked for a major illegal corporate monopoly (nor do I

> care to now); no matter how bad it would have been for me, I should

> have sued the industry under the Americans with Disabilities Act of

> 1990. "

>

> Yes you should have.

>

> " I had expected it to be my " bread and butter " , but the illegal

> consolidation of the industry under the unconstitutional

> Telecommunications Act of 1996 changed all of that. The broadcast

> industry is the last industry in America where discrimination on the

> basis of disability and age are still legal; it is illegal in all

> other areas of American business. "

>

> Agreed. Except that I would qualify that statement by saying it is

> ONE of the last industries. As you can see from 's

statements,

> the sales industry also appears to discriminate.

>

> And I would also point out that other people besides those with AS

> are also discriminated against but perhaps we just don't see it

> because we don't walk around in other people's shoes.

>

> " In the United States of America? Most likely not. They value

> patronage and cronyism more than hard work. "

>

> No. They value social interaction and " being social " above

> everything else. So do most other countries.

>

> " What's your denomination? I'm a Roman Catholic, and a former

> Southern Baptist. "

>

> Missouri Synod Lutheran.

>

> " All I was interested in was romance. A hug and a kiss were

> good enough for me. Even having the chance to take a young lady to a

> nice restaurant was good enough for me. Giving her flowers, gifts

> and nice things after knowing her for some time, that was fine by

> me. I wanted to save the sex for marriage. "

>

> And my interactions with women have caused me to unfortunately

> deduce that as much as many women SAY that the things you have

> listed are what they want, what many women ACTUALLY want is a sugar

> daddy who will keep them living in splendor and comfort with sex

> when they want it whether it be with you or with a lover that you

> either do or don't know about.

>

> To date I have only dated two women who do not fit this mold. Inger

> is one of them.

>

> " But, we have a RIGHT to get everything we want, even with all

these

> strikes against us. We have a RIGHT to a career. We have a

> RIGHT to date, get married and have families. No one should ever

> stop us from realizing our goals. "

>

> No we don't. Man is the maker of rights, but God and nature give

you

> none. Set aside your assumptions that RIGHTS are automatically

> yours. The only rights you gain for yourself are the ones you earn

> or fight for. No one will give you anything in this world because

> they are too busy working for their own rights.

>

> " A defeatist attitude is the wrong attitude to take. You need to

> learn from your mistakes. "

>

> I have learned to a degree, and am still learning. I do not

consider

> my attitude defeatest. Pragmatic would be a better descriptor.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

(slight edit to my poorly written brain diarrhea. Sorry for that.)

> >

> > " The longest period of time I've held a job in radio has been five

> > years; I've held a radio job for an average of three years. Don't

go

> > telling me I could be fired the next day! "

> >

> > But you could though. In Chicago it's not unusual to come home

one

> > day listening to your favorite radio station which was just put

on

> > the air six months ago and get up the next morning to discover

that

> > your 80's station has been replaced by 70's love songs and all

the

> > DJs have been sacked.

> >

> > My comment was not directed at your skills or your abilities. It

> was

> > directed at how fickle the radio and TV industry actually is.

> >

> > I had said...

> >

> > " That's probably what they thought of you, and your AS attributes

> > were not a positive thing in their view either. "

> >

> > To which you replied...

> >

> > " How on earth would they ever know? I never told them I had AS. "

> >

> > By the way you speak, act, and interact. Those are the attributes

> > that people see in me and take me to task on, and here are some

> > attributes specifically:

> >

> > I have a monotone.

> > I don't smile.

> > They think I am never happy.

> > I am sarcastic.

> > I talk like a professor.

> > I have no respect for authority.

> > I do not each lunch with the rest of my coworkers.

> > I am a wallflower.

> > I bounce my leg around and tap my pen alot.

> > I don't make eye contact with anyone.

> > I am " too sensitive " to light and sound but " not sensitive

enough "

> > to the lack of heat in our office.

> > I like the " wrong weather " (rainy days).

> > I " hate " foods that everybody else loves (pizza).

> > I am a " picky " eater.

> >

> > Etc.

> >

> > Only one of these people at present knows that I have AS, but ALL

> of

> > them know I am different.

> >

> > You said...

> >

> > " I always came in to the application process with a POSITIVE

> > attitude. "

> >

> > It doesn't matter. They will always see you differently.

> >

> > You said:

> >

> > " Their view of me was TOTALLY WRONG. "

> >

> > No. It's entirely correct...from THEIR perspective. The problem

is

> > that they are too obtuse to realize that THEIR perspective isn't

> the

> > ONLY perspective.

> >

> > They are prejudiced.

> >

> > And because they have made you a minority due to your difference,

> > you will forever be prejudiced against by those people.

> >

> > " I never worked for a major illegal corporate monopoly (nor do I

> > care to now); no matter how bad it would have been for me, I

should

> > have sued the industry under the Americans with Disabilities Act

of

> > 1990. "

> >

> > Yes you should have.

> >

> > " I had expected it to be my " bread and butter " , but the illegal

> > consolidation of the industry under the unconstitutional

> > Telecommunications Act of 1996 changed all of that. The broadcast

> > industry is the last industry in America where discrimination on

the

> > basis of disability and age are still legal; it is illegal in all

> > other areas of American business. "

> >

> > Agreed. Except that I would qualify that statement by saying it

is

> > ONE of the last industries. As you can see from 's

> statements,

> > the sales industry also appears to discriminate.

> >

> > And I would also point out that other people besides those with

AS

> > are also discriminated against but perhaps we just don't see it

> > because we don't walk around in other people's shoes.

> >

> > " In the United States of America? Most likely not. They value

> > patronage and cronyism more than hard work. "

> >

> > No. They value social interaction and " being social " above

> > everything else. So do most other countries.

> >

> > " What's your denomination? I'm a Roman Catholic, and a former

> > Southern Baptist. "

> >

> > Missouri Synod Lutheran.

> >

> > " All I was interested in was romance. A hug and a kiss were

> > good enough for me. Even having the chance to take a young lady

to a

> > nice restaurant was good enough for me. Giving her flowers, gifts

> > and nice things after knowing her for some time, that was fine by

> > me. I wanted to save the sex for marriage. "

> >

> > And my interactions with women have caused me to unfortunately

> > deduce that as much as many women SAY that the things you have

> > listed are what they want, what many women ACTUALLY want is a

sugar

> > daddy who will keep them living in splendor and comfort with sex

> > when they want it whether it be with you or with a lover that you

> > either do or don't know about.

> >

> > To date I have only dated two women who do not fit this mold.

Inger

> > is one of them.

> >

> > " But, we have a RIGHT to get everything we want, even with all

> these

> > strikes against us. We have a RIGHT to a career. We have a

> > RIGHT to date, get married and have families. No one should ever

> > stop us from realizing our goals. "

> >

> > No we don't. Man is the maker of rights, but God and nature give

> you

> > none. Set aside your assumptions that RIGHTS are automatically

> > yours. The only rights you gain for yourself are the ones you

earn

> > or fight for. No one will give you anything in this world because

> > they are too busy working for their own rights.

> >

> > " A defeatist attitude is the wrong attitude to take. You need to

> > learn from your mistakes. "

> >

> > I have learned to a degree, and am still learning. I do not

> consider

> > my attitude defeatest. Pragmatic would be a better descriptor.

> >

> > Tom

> > Administrator

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You and Inger are dating? Wow. You both seem like really great

people. And you are from Chicago, Tom? I am too, I thought you might

be. I seem to 'click' somewhat with others from Chicago. Where, if

you want to say online?

>

> " The longest period of time I've held a job in radio has been five

> years; I've held a radio job for an average of three years. Don't go

> telling me I could be fired the next day! "

>

> But you could though. In Chicago it's not unusual to come home one

> day listening to your favorite radio station which was just put on

> the air six months ago and get up the next morning to discover that

> your 80's station has been replaced by 70's love songs and all the

> DJs have been sacked.

>

> My comment was not directed at your skills or your abilities. It

was

> directed at how fickle the radio and TV industry actually is.

>

> I had said...

>

> " That's probably what they thought of you, and your AS attributes

> were not a positive thing in their view either. "

>

> To which you replied...

>

> " How on earth would they ever know? I never told them I had AS. "

>

> By the way you speak, act, and interact. Those are the attributes

> that people see in me and take me to task on, and here are some

> attributes specifically:

>

> I have a monotone.

> I don't smile.

> They think I am never happy.

> I am sarcastic.

> I talk like a professor.

> I have no respect for authority.

> I do not each lunch with the rest of my coworkers.

> I am a wallflower.

> I bounce my leg around and tap my pen alot.

> I don't make eye contact with anyone.

> I am " too sensitive " to light and sound but " not sensitive enough "

> to the lack of heat in our office.

> I like the " wrong weather " (rainy days).

> I " hate " foods that everybody else loves (pizza).

> I am a " picky " eater.

>

> Etc.

>

> Only one of these people at present knows that I have AS, but ALL

of

> them know I am different.

>

> You said...

>

> " I always came in to the application process with a POSITIVE

> attitude. "

>

> It doesn't matter. They will always see you differently.

>

> You said:

>

> " Their view of me was TOTALLY WRONG. "

>

> No. It's entirely correct...from THEIR perspective. The problem is

> that they are too obtuse to realize that THEIR perspective isn't

the

> ONLY perspective.

>

> They are prejudiced.

>

> And because they have made you a minority due to your difference,

> you will forever be prejudiced against by those people.

>

> " I never worked for a major illegal corporate monopoly (nor do I

> care to now); no matter how bad it would have been for me, I should

> have sued the industry under the Americans with Disabilities Act of

> 1990. "

>

> Yes you should have.

>

> " I had expected it to be my " bread and butter " , but the illegal

> consolidation of the industry under the unconstitutional

> Telecommunications Act of 1996 changed all of that. The broadcast

> industry is the last industry in America where discrimination on the

> basis of disability and age are still legal; it is illegal in all

> other areas of American business. "

>

> Agreed. Except that I would qualify that statement by saying it is

> ONE of the last industries. As you can see from 's

statements,

> the sales industry also appears to discriminate.

>

> And I would also point out that other people besides those with AS

> are also discriminated against but perhaps we just don't see it

> because we don't walk around in other people's shoes.

>

> " In the United States of America? Most likely not. They value

> patronage and cronyism more than hard work. "

>

> No. They value social interaction and " being social " above

> everything else. So do most other countries.

>

> " What's your denomination? I'm a Roman Catholic, and a former

> Southern Baptist. "

>

> Missouri Synod Lutheran.

>

> " All I was interested in was romance. A hug and a kiss were

> good enough for me. Even having the chance to take a young lady to a

> nice restaurant was good enough for me. Giving her flowers, gifts

> and nice things after knowing her for some time, that was fine by

> me. I wanted to save the sex for marriage. "

>

> And my interactions with women have caused me to unfortunately

> deduce that as much as many women SAY that the things you have

> listed are what they want, what many women ACTUALLY want is a sugar

> daddy who will keep them living in splendor and comfort with sex

> when they want it whether it be with you or with a lover that you

> either do or don't know about.

>

> To date I have only dated two women who do not fit this mold. Inger

> is one of them.

>

> " But, we have a RIGHT to get everything we want, even with all

these

> strikes against us. We have a RIGHT to a career. We have a

> RIGHT to date, get married and have families. No one should ever

> stop us from realizing our goals. "

>

> No we don't. Man is the maker of rights, but God and nature give

you

> none. Set aside your assumptions that RIGHTS are automatically

> yours. The only rights you gain for yourself are the ones you earn

> or fight for. No one will give you anything in this world because

> they are too busy working for their own rights.

>

> " A defeatist attitude is the wrong attitude to take. You need to

> learn from your mistakes. "

>

> I have learned to a degree, and am still learning. I do not

consider

> my attitude defeatest. Pragmatic would be a better descriptor.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

"You and Inger are dating?" Guilty as charged."Wow. You both seem like really great people."She's great. I am not so great. But she tolerates me. "And you are from Chicago, Tom? I am too, I thought you mightbe. I seem to 'click' somewhat with others from Chicago. Where, ifyou want to say online?"Hmm... A suburb, actually, and if I named it, people could pinpoint me. Let's just say a northwest suburb.Tom

[Guest guest]

Okay. I don't blame you for wanting not to be pinpointed. I've

been gone for a while so I'll tell you I've lived in Rolling Meadows,

Prarie View and Hoffman Estates (my father lived in Elgin once and my

aunt in Naperville), and I went to junior high and high school in

Libertyville and Mundelein respectively.

>

> " You and Inger are dating? "

>

> :x Guilty as charged.

>

> " Wow. You both seem like really great people. "

>

> She's great. O:) I am not so great. > But she tolerates me.

>

> " And you are from Chicago, Tom? I am too, I thought you might

> be. I seem to 'click' somewhat with others from Chicago. Where, if

> you want to say online? "

>

> Hmm... A suburb, actually, and if I named it, people could pinpoint

me. Let's just say a northwest suburb.

>

> Tom

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know if I would be or not. The only females that pay me any attention tend to be, well underage. Once they hit about 17 or so, that's it for me as far as they are concerned. I can count the number of women over 21 that have flirted with me (not counting the married ones, ick.) on one hand with fingers to spare.

[Guest guest]

>Tom: "people could pinpoint me"Aren't you being rather paranoid? Why?  Rainbow

[Guest guest]

Because I have been stalked, and have also been the victim of identity

theft, and I would rather that not happen again.

Tom

>Tom: " people could pinpoint me "

Aren't you being rather paranoid? Why?

Rainbow

[Guest guest]

>Tom: "Because I have been stalked, and have also been the victim of identity theft, and I would rather that not happen again."I understand. I am sorry that these unfortunate things have happened to you.  Rainbow

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/8/2005 2:07:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, ojmalm@... writes:

How old are you? If you're over 30, these teens are just kidding with you, you know they have a talent for bullying much older single men.

I'm 32, but still look like I'm in my early 20's.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/8/2005 3:12:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, inglori@... writes:

That may not necessarily be the case in 's case. I think it is more likely due to looking so much younger than his age.Inger

I'm 32 but often am taken for being younger. If I'm around college age kids or in a college town, people often think I'm about 20 or 21.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/8/2005 5:32:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, ojmalm@... writes:

I'm 32 and I still don't have stubble on the middle of my upper lip.I've started to loose a little hair, though.

I'm like this. The mustache is full area but is scraggly. Hair grows on my chin but not on the sides of my face and it too is scraggly. I've let it grow before but it always looks so bad that I shave it off.

[Guest guest]

That may not necessarily be the case in 's case. I think it is more

likely due to looking so much younger than his age.

Inger

Re: Are We Really Capable of Meaningful

Relationships?

How old are you? If you're over 30, these teens are just kidding with

you, you know they have a talent for bullying much older single men.

>

> I don't know if I would be or not. The only females that pay me any

> attention tend to be, well underage. Once they hit about 17 or so,

that's it for me

> as far as they are concerned. I can count the number of women over 21

that

> have flirted with me (not counting the married ones, ick.) on one

hand with

> fingers to spare.

>

>

>

FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and

acceptance. Everyone is valued.

Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the

folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

[Guest guest]

I really hate loosing my hair while I still can't grow decent

sideburns!

>

>

> In a message dated 11/8/2005 5:32:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> ojmalm@o... writes:

>

> I'm 32 and I still don't have stubble on the middle of my upper

lip.

> I've started to loose a little hair, though.

>

>

>

> I'm like this. The mustache is full area but is scraggly. Hair

grows on my

> chin but not on the sides of my face and it too is scraggly. I've

let it grow

> before but it always looks so bad that I shave it off.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

No need to be. Don't you know bald is sexy?

Sideburns on the other hand are a definite turn-off.

Inger

Re: Are We Really Capable of Meaningful

Relationships?

> I really hate loosing my hair while I still can't grow decent sideburns!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/9/2005 2:15:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, ojmalm@... writes:

I really hate loosing my hair while I still can't grow decent sideburns!

Come to think of it, my hair has begun to thin as well. Still can't grow a decent beard or mustache though.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/9/2005 2:15:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, ojmalm@... writes:

I really hate loosing my hair while I still can't grow decent sideburns!

Come to think of it, my hair has begun to thin as well. Still can't grow a decent beard or mustache though.

[Guest guest]

My hair is a light brown and very fine which would make any grey hard to see. All I do notice is there seems to be more and more of it on my keyboard. I have a few grey hairs in what facial hair I have though.