Re: Spironolactone - Is It Right 4 U - Ladies?

[Guest guest]

You know alot of women who don't think they weigh too much? Or don't worry about their weight?

From: msmith_1928 <janeray1940@...>Subject: Re: Spironolactone - Is It Right 4 U - Ladies?hyperaldosteronism Date: Thursday, May 3, 2012, 8:55 PM

Wow , sounds like you know a lot of women with pretty low self esteem. Adrenalectomy scars and all, I feel just fine now > > >> > > OK just so Virginia is not the only one - > > > Needs what needs - you mean the ones my husband keeps nagging about - not interested.> >>

[Guest guest]

You know alot of women who don't think they weigh too much? Or don't worry about their weight?

From: msmith_1928 <janeray1940@...>Subject: Re: Spironolactone - Is It Right 4 U - Ladies?hyperaldosteronism Date: Thursday, May 3, 2012, 8:55 PM

Wow , sounds like you know a lot of women with pretty low self esteem. Adrenalectomy scars and all, I feel just fine now > > >> > > OK just so Virginia is not the only one - > > > Needs what needs - you mean the ones my husband keeps nagging about - not interested.> >>

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All illness is biochemical.CE Grim MDOn May 3, 2012, at 1:39 PM, msmith_1928 wrote: Okay, I'll speak up on this one too. Let's just say that between feeling lousy from being sick, and the fact that the tumor caused salt/water retention and I felt fat and unattractive all the time, the only "needs" that I was concerned about were my own, and the most pressing of those was the need to be left alone when I felt this way. Which was 99.999% of the time. Can't say whether this was caused directly - e.g. biochemically - by the illness, or indirectly/psychologically. My guess is both. > > OK just so Virginia is not the only one - > Needs what needs - you mean the ones my husband keeps nagging about - not interested.

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Most of your damage was from high aldo not high testosterone. Spiro does not lower testosterone. Has T come down since ADX?CE Grim MDOn May 3, 2012, at 12:51 PM, lk.barns wrote: OK just so Virginia is not the only one - Needs what needs - you mean the ones my husband keeps nagging about - not interested. However - I have several lab results of high testosterone - anywhere from 2x to 4x above the normal range- based on this the first endo decided I had PCOS - despite normal estrogen and FSH levels, several mildly high cortisol levels, and no testing for Aldo - no history of infertility or deranged menstrual cycles- the Mayas could have learned a thing or two about calendars from me. Spiro is a common prescription for high testosterone but even when I asked about it she refused to prescribe it. Instead she prescribed metformin (which is often used to restore fertility and regular periods in PCOS patients) and correg (which did not control the BP) BB do not work in PA. Fast forward 3 years - still high testosterone - beard, acne - lower voice (used to be 1st soprano - now a bass)one month after my last appointment with her - I'm near death due to heart damage from poorly controlled BP. Fix the heart and cardio began to connect my continuing symptoms with Hyperaldosteronism and sent me to endo 2- still high T, upper normal range cortisol, upper normal range Aldo - began Spiro - in May 2010 - last menstrual cycle July 2010 (menopause at last!) - increased Spiro September 2010 to 100 mg - Continue to have HA symptoms periodically - for longer and longer periods - continue testing for HA - finally get through the roof Aldo readings January 2012 - Adrenalectomy March 2012 - 1 month and 2 days later begin a normal period - so much for menopause. I needed Spiro several years before I got it - In my case needed it for High T as well as the aldo that was not showing up on labs but was damaging my heart anyway - As for the needs - well I've actually had a dirty thought or 2 since surgery so that is progress - You would have thought with all the T - that would not have been a problem - I guess too much is just as bad as too little. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and decided I'd see what "extras" Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies, didn't have to look far! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case studies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

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Maybe should say BB don't lower B/P in PA. They will still work on heart rate.

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At the last VA I noted that they are checking everone's vit D and finding most low and then loading with Vit D for 12 weeks and then on daily supplement. But no good data that I can find that it makes anyone healthier.One of the biggest correlates for low bone density in the population is diet salt intake. The higher the salt the softer the bones.CE Grim MDOn May 3, 2012, at 10:40 AM, wrote: Dr. Grim, you have posted quite a bit that appears to cast doubt on the studies I have posted. Are these based on facts (valid studies) or your opinion. I post so people will have as complete a picture as possible to base their decisions on. I don't care what people do with the info but I feel it important they have all the informtion so they can make an informed decision. I know from experience what happens when bone density is adversely impacted. My mother-in-law spent the last few years of her life bedridden from brittle bones that resulted in a broken hip. Not only was her QOL impacted but ours was too since my wife took her turn weekly to care for her. I'm not saying they should not take Spiro, I'm saying they should be aware of what it may be doing so they can test and plan accordingly. In my case, NIH was very impressed with the result of my bone density test. They were not as impressed with the results of my vitamin D test and infact have me on a significant weekly dose of vitamin D and will recheck in 8 weeks. Everyone needs good information so they can make intellegent decisions! > > > > > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and decided I'd see what "extras" Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies, didn't have to look far! > > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case studies. > > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119 > > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen? > > > > > > > >

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That should have led to workup for cause of low K. Esp if not vomiting,taking diuretic or sweating a lot in a hot climate or diarrhea.CE Grim MDOn May 3, 2012, at 9:51 AM, Virginia Wall wrote: I didn't realize it but apparently K was an issue in 2009 according to a BMP I had done (level was 2.9). VirginiaSent from my iPhone On May 3, 2012, at 9:34 AM, Clarence Grim <lowerbp2@...> wrote: When k gets low lots of things don't work right. So was K a problem then? May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn May 3, 2012, at 7:11, Virginia Wall <virgwall@...> wrote: LOL. Thanks for the explanation. I'm still trying to learn about all this stuff. So low sex drive isn't a common complaint for hyperaldo it sounds like? And I'm not saying it was perfect when I was on spiro, but it was slightly better. Like you said, could just be because my body was healthier. VirginiaSent from my iPhone On May 3, 2012, at 5:58 AM, " " <jclark24p@...> wrote: Virginia,Spironolactone is in a class of medications called aldosterone receptor antagonists.Among other things it antagonizes androgen as part of the process (that is why it is often used as the first level of treatment for Transgender (M2F) changes.) . To break that down, let's look up a couple words:androgen: male sex hormone: a natural or artificial male sex hormone responsible for the development of male sexual characteristics. Testosterone and androsterone are androgens. Antagonists: pharmacology neutralizing agent: a drug that neutralizes the effect of a substance on the body Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.So this means it actually reduces testosterone. As for your experience, good for you but your experience is contrary to this study. There could be many reasons your libido went up, here are a couple. Was your testosterone too high to start with? Did Spiro correct PA to the point you got rid of that eternal headache? Now, if you used Eplerenone and left testosterone where it belonged AND fixed PA - WOW (Just remember you are not a teenager anymore and don't kill that old man!)Sorry, NOT - you asked for that one! > > >> > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and decided I'd see what "extras" Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies, didn't have to look far!> > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case studies.> > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119> > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen?> > >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Usually given for BP rather that rate control in those with HTN.I almost never use it for rate control as most I have seen don't have high rate problems.But if have HTN and rapid heart rate and/or anxiety will reach for it to see.CE Grim MDOn May 3, 2012, at 10:03 PM, Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA wrote: Maybe should say BB don't lower B/P in PA. They will still work on heart rate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored > > and decided I'd see what "extras" Spironolactone might be doing for > > the ladies, didn't have to look far! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal > > women: case studies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

I thought spiro antgonized androgen, can you explain how tht might affect

testosterone?

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> > the ladies, didn't have to look far!

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> > > > > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal

> > women: case studies.

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> > > > > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119

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> > > > > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen?

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Among my 6 closest female friends, ages 42-55, none of us are overweight and we

rarely, if ever, discuss weight or much of anything to do with appearance,

really. We're a pretty nonconventional bunch though, so that might count for

something.

The only time I've ever felt especially down about my appearance was when I had

the tumor. Someone else on this board described their weight gain something like

making them look like a " barrel on toothpicks " - which is exactly how I felt, a

big round bloated middle while the rest of me remained thin.

> > > >

> > > > OK just so Virginia is not the only one -

> > > > Needs what needs - you mean the ones my husband keeps nagging about -

not interested.

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Take all my Evolution article. And ask that they read it.Tell them I worked with Dr. Conn and that usually gets their attention.CE Grim MDOn May 3, 2012, at 5:33 PM, Virginia Wall wrote: Yeah, I am starting to realize that I need to start being what will in my opinion be ridiculously over dramatic to have drs understand what's going on. I tend to agree about women complaining a lot. Part of why I don't want to be a whiner is because I think it's so annoying lol. But I think I'm learning I have a high pain tolerance and can willpower through more than the average person, and that seems to be hindering my treatment to be honest. And get this, I called PCP today asking about my other labs and it was AUGUST 2009 I complained about fatigue (not as long ago as I thought) and we tested my thyroid. My K measured low TWICE in May 2009!! Like, are you kidding me?! And I wasn't even told. And you're right, the 2.9 & 3.3 levels in May 2009 were probably even LOWER! It's mind boggling. VirginiaSent from my iPhone On May 3, 2012, at 5:07 PM, Bingham <jlkbbk2003@...> wrote: And we've concluded, and I have personally done my own "let my lab do their thing" when they argued on how to take it right, that we know the K could be/is usually done wrong which elevates it not lowers it. So is it even right? I suspect, and sorry women more than men, they ingore it because 1. while women are more in touch with their bodies than we men usually, they 2. women often get the brush off faster then a spider on the shoulder, because it seems - I SAID IT SEEMS is all - women complain of fatigue and weight troubles constantly, and we've all become a bit desensitized to it. I meant to say though that I suspect that many a woman, and man, are walking around exhausted, tingly, tired, whatever, and have a low K that is just ingored. Start there I would say now and fix it THEN see how they feel. I certainly because of my own situation and experience have a fondness for K anymore. I can look back and say with clarity that low K was the root of my complaints. But we trudge on, and smile at the doctor, and talk nice, so they assume we can't be as tired as we say, or whatever our complaint was. I used to tell my wife how I felt like it was taking EVERY ounce of mental energy and physical energy to just get out of bed. I did get out of bed, but I didn't even understand at the time what I meant. K is better now and those feeling s are gone gone gone now. K is my best buddy. Next to my wife of course! Virginia, Spironolactone is in a class of medications called aldosterone receptor antagonists. Among other things it antagonizes androgen as part of the process (that is why it is often used as the first level of treatment for Transgender (M2F) changes.) . To break that down, let's look up a couple words: androgen: male sex hormone: a natural or artificial male sex hormone responsible for the development of male sexual characteristics. Testosterone and androsterone are androgens. Antagonists: pharmacology neutralizing agent: a drug that neutralizes the effect of a substance on the body Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. So this means it actually reduces testosterone. As for your experience, good for you but your experience is contrary to this study. There could be many reasons your libido went up, here are a couple. Was your testosterone too high to start with? Did Spiro correct PA to the point you got rid of that eternal headache? Now, if you used Eplerenone and left testosterone where it belonged AND fixed PA - WOW (Just remember you are not a teenager anymore and don't kill that old man!) Sorry, NOT - you asked for that one! > > >> > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and decided I'd see what "extras" Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies, didn't have to look far!> > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case studies.> > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119> > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen?> > >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

I will for sure Dr Grim. My PCP has already shown a desire to learn more about PA so I'm sure he will be receptive. Thanks!VirginiaSent from my iPhone On May 3, 2012, at 10:43 PM, Clarence Grim <lowerbp2@...> wrote:

Take all my Evolution article. And ask that they read it.Tell them I worked with Dr. Conn and that usually gets their attention.CE Grim MDOn May 3, 2012, at 5:33 PM, Virginia Wall wrote: Yeah, I am starting to realize that I need to start being what will in my opinion be ridiculously over dramatic to have drs understand what's going on. I tend to agree about women complaining a lot. Part of why I don't want to be a whiner is because I think it's so annoying lol. But I think I'm learning I have a high pain tolerance and can willpower through more than the average person, and that seems to be hindering my treatment to be honest. And get this, I called PCP today asking about my other labs and it was AUGUST 2009 I complained about fatigue (not as long ago as I thought) and we tested my thyroid. My K measured low TWICE in May 2009!! Like, are you kidding me?! And I wasn't even told. And you're right, the 2.9 & 3.3 levels in May 2009 were probably even LOWER! It's mind boggling. VirginiaSent from my iPhone On May 3, 2012, at 5:07 PM, Bingham <jlkbbk2003@...> wrote: And we've concluded, and I have personally done my own "let my lab do their thing" when they argued on how to take it right, that we know the K could be/is usually done wrong which elevates it not lowers it. So is it even right? I suspect, and sorry women more than men, they ingore it because 1. while women are more in touch with their bodies than we men usually, they 2. women often get the brush off faster then a spider on the shoulder, because it seems - I SAID IT SEEMS is all - women complain of fatigue and weight troubles constantly, and we've all become a bit desensitized to it. I meant to say though that I suspect that many a woman, and man, are walking around exhausted, tingly, tired, whatever, and have a low K that is just ingored. Start there I would say now and fix it THEN see how they feel. I certainly because of my own situation and experience have a fondness for K anymore. I can look back and say with clarity that low K was the root of my complaints. But we trudge on, and smile at the doctor, and talk nice, so they assume we can't be as tired as we say, or whatever our complaint was. I used to tell my wife how I felt like it was taking EVERY ounce of mental energy and physical energy to just get out of bed. I did get out of bed, but I didn't even understand at the time what I meant. K is better now and those feeling s are gone gone gone now. K is my best buddy. Next to my wife of course! Virginia, Spironolactone is in a class of medications called aldosterone receptor antagonists. Among other things it antagonizes androgen as part of the process (that is why it is often used as the first level of treatment for Transgender (M2F) changes.) . To break that down, let's look up a couple words: androgen: male sex hormone: a natural or artificial male sex hormone responsible for the development of male sexual characteristics. Testosterone and androsterone are androgens. Antagonists: pharmacology neutralizing agent: a drug that neutralizes the effect of a substance on the body Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. So this means it actually reduces testosterone. As for your experience, good for you but your experience is contrary to this study. There could be many reasons your libido went up, here are a couple. Was your testosterone too high to start with? Did Spiro correct PA to the point you got rid of that eternal headache? Now, if you used Eplerenone and left testosterone where it belonged AND fixed PA - WOW (Just remember you are not a teenager anymore and don't kill that old man!) Sorry, NOT - you asked for that one! > > >> > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and decided I'd see what "extras" Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies, didn't have to look far!> > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case studies.> > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119> > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen?> > >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Testosterone is regulated by pituitary/hypotalmus. The cells up there measure blood testosterone. If it is low the brain sends out a hormone (GnRH) to kick the pit to release LH and FSH to kick the testis to make more test. Don't know that spiro blocks these brain receptors but if it did test might go up because brain would think it was too low. Might want to look up effect of spiro on testosterone in males. Could not find much.CE Grim MDOn May 3, 2012, at 10:33 PM, wrote: I thought spiro antgonized androgen, can you explain how tht might affect testosterone? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored > > and decided I'd see what "extras" Spironolactone might be doing for > > the ladies, didn't have to look far! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal > > women: case studies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

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Your rare. Most women, even if there are conditions that are potentially life-threatening, often put their weight concerns # 1 when they go to the clinic - if they have concerns about their weight. Weight aside, most women I come across don't consider themselves "attractive" and consider something, usually it is weight though, as the reason they feel unattractive. I have met/treated very few women who don't have that something they feel is flawed.

From: msmith_1928 <janeray1940@...>Subject: Re: Spironolactone - Is It Right 4 U - Ladies?hyperaldosteronism Date: Thursday, May 3, 2012, 10:36 PM

Among my 6 closest female friends, ages 42-55, none of us are overweight and we rarely, if ever, discuss weight or much of anything to do with appearance, really. We're a pretty nonconventional bunch though, so that might count for something.The only time I've ever felt especially down about my appearance was when I had the tumor. Someone else on this board described their weight gain something like making them look like a "barrel on toothpicks" - which is exactly how I felt, a big round bloated middle while the rest of me remained thin.> > > >> > > > OK just so Virginia is not the only one - > > > > Needs what needs - you mean the ones my husband keeps nagging about - not interested.> > >> >>

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It's not a production issue, it is a usability issue! When you andgonize

something you make it unusable to the body, look it up! BTW, this is NOT a

gender issue! If there is a potential for an issue I'm surprised you don't

recognize it and advocate proper testing and treatment when available! The cost

difference between spiro and epler may be mitigated when you include a

mastectomy or two and a few broken bones!

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> > for

> > > > the ladies, didn't have to look far!

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> > > > women: case studies.

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> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119

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[Guest guest]

, please learn from this post! This is *exactly* the kind of thinking that

delayed my PA diagnosis. The very first reason I *ever* went to a doctor for it

was the sudden onset on weight gain in my early 30s, something that had never

happened to me before in my life.

I *knew* that for me it wasn't age or lack of exercise or eating too many

cupcakes that brought it on. I *knew* that something much bigger was wrong.

But because of this stereotypical and gender-biased thinking, my diagnosis was

delayed for at least THIRTEEN YEARS.

Bottom line: if a female patient comes in and says I've gained 50 pounds in

under a year and don't know why, maybe you medical-professional types should try

something really new and revolutionary and innovative - BELIEVE HER and try to

find out WHY.

-msmith1928

pre-tumor average weight: 104

tumor weight: 123-173

post-adrenalectomy weight: 111

(yes, the tumor made me fat!)

> > > > >

> > > > > OK just so Virginia is not the only one -

> > > > > Needs what needs - you mean the ones my husband keeps nagging about -

not interested.

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Hmm this should raise some hairs.I would guess the same is true of men it you really ask.CE Grim MDOn May 4, 2012, at 3:58 AM, Bingham wrote: Your rare. Most women, even if there are conditions that are potentially life-threatening, often put their weight concerns # 1 when they go to the clinic - if they have concerns about their weight. Weight aside, most women I come across don't consider themselves "attractive" and consider something, usually it is weight though, as the reason they feel unattractive. I have met/treated very few women who don't have that something they feel is flawed. From: msmith_1928 <janeray1940@...>Subject: Re: Spironolactone - Is It Right 4 U - Ladies?hyperaldosteronism Date: Thursday, May 3, 2012, 10:36 PM Among my 6 closest female friends, ages 42-55, none of us are overweight and we rarely, if ever, discuss weight or much of anything to do with appearance, really. We're a pretty nonconventional bunch though, so that might count for something.The only time I've ever felt especially down about my appearance was when I had the tumor. Someone else on this board described their weight gain something like making them look like a "barrel on toothpicks" - which is exactly how I felt, a big round bloated middle while the rest of me remained thin.> > > >> > > > OK just so Virginia is not the only one - > > > > Needs what needs - you mean the ones my husband keeps nagging about - not interested.> > >> >>

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And your statistics on that are …?  Generalizations … Val Your rare. Most women, even if there are conditions that are potentially life-threatening, often put their weight concerns # 1 when they go to the clinic - if they have concerns about their weight. Weight aside, most women I come across don't consider themselves " attractive " and consider something, usually it is weight though, as the reason they feel unattractive. I have met/treated very few women who don't have that something they feel is flawed. From: msmith_1928 <janeray1940@...> Among my 6 closest female friends, ages 42-55, none of us are overweight and we rarely, if ever, discuss weight or much of anything to do with appearance, really.

[Guest guest]

I said earlier that I am referring to ones I know or met or treated. I don't have to have references for my opinion

From: msmith_1928 <janeray1940@...>Among my 6 closest female friends, ages 42-55, none of us are overweight and we rarely, if ever, discuss weight or much of anything to do with appearance, really.

[Guest guest]

We're not going there again. I know there are exceptions> > > From: msmith_1928 <janeray1940@...>> Subject: Re:

Spironolactone - Is It Right 4 U - Ladies?> hyperaldosteronism > Date: Thursday, May 3, 2012, 10:36 PM> > > > Â > > > > Among my 6 closest female friends, ages 42-55, none of us are overweight and we rarely, if ever, discuss weight or much of anything to do with appearance, really. We're a pretty nonconventional bunch though, so that might count for something.> > The only time I've ever felt especially down about my appearance was when I had the tumor. Someone else on this board described their weight gain something like making them look like a "barrel on toothpicks" - which is exactly how I felt, a big round bloated middle while the rest of me remained thin.>

> > > > > >> > > > > OK just so Virginia is not the only one - > > > > > Needs what needs - you mean the ones my husband keeps nagging about - not interested.> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Or the meds you were taking to counter act the tumor effects stimulated your appetite and/or blocked the signal that says "I am full and so should stop eating". Anyway we need to start a file on weight gain with PA I would think. And its response to MCBs and or surgery.Thanks for the stimulus. I can assure that until we collect more data no one will believe that aldo makes folks gain weight.Some one should look at the effects of lowering renin (and AII) on appetite in pub med.Also look for effects of aldo on energy metabolism. i e how can aldo increase weight without increasing calorie intake. I can assure you that the weight bias in medicine is not gender based but weight based.For example I have seen many Vets over 500 lbs who would benefit from obesity surgery but the VA almost never approves it as the hoops that one must jump thru are very difficult. Maybe that has changed.CE Grim MDOn May 4, 2012, at 9:43 AM, msmith_1928 wrote: , please learn from this post! This is *exactly* the kind of thinking that delayed my PA diagnosis. The very first reason I *ever* went to a doctor for it was the sudden onset on weight gain in my early 30s, something that had never happened to me before in my life. I *knew* that for me it wasn't age or lack of exercise or eating too many cupcakes that brought it on. I *knew* that something much bigger was wrong. But because of this stereotypical and gender-biased thinking, my diagnosis was delayed for at least THIRTEEN YEARS. Bottom line: if a female patient comes in and says I've gained 50 pounds in under a year and don't know why, maybe you medical-professional types should try something really new and revolutionary and innovative - BELIEVE HER and try to find out WHY. -msmith1928 pre-tumor average weight: 104 tumor weight: 123-173 post-adrenalectomy weight: 111 (yes, the tumor made me fat!) > > > > > > > > > > OK just so Virginia is not the only one - > > > > > Needs what needs - you mean the ones my husband keeps nagging about - not interested. > > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

You may know more than I but when I refer to " Management of overweight and

obesity " at the VA/DoD Clinical Practice Guidelines:

http://www.healthquality.va.gov/obesity/obe06_final1.pdf

and search on " bariatric " I get over 75 hits! Guideline is for over 40 bmi or

over 35 bmi with obesity related conditions

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This writeup is excellent review of weight loss issues. Very nice but published in 2007. Ah yes those are the guidelines but what are the other details that must be met to get the surgery at a VA? As I recall must be able to lose and hold a weight loss of ??? or have failed to do that in the VA System.At one facility sometime ago I asked how to get a pt to surgery for this and was laughed at at the other end and wished good luck as they said they had never approved anyone for that surgery. Perhaps it has changed. They had to be sent to a hospital a long was off that did the surgery.Based on my last tour of duty I would guess a significant portion of the VA population are be candidates if you consider BMI ≥35 and HTN or CAD or DM or metabolic syndrome or hyperlipidemia or hip, knee or foot joint problems or OSA to mention a few. What one would hope is that the VA might do a proper trial to see if surgery is better the MOVE program for improving health over the long haul. I have seen some excellent responses with the VA MOVE program however so it should always be tried first. I also saw excellent responses to the DASH.CE Grim MDOn May 4, 2012, at 2:55 PM, wrote: You may know more than I but when I refer to "Management of overweight and obesity" at the VA/DoD Clinical Practice Guidelines: http://www.healthquality.va.gov/obesity/obe06_final1.pdf and search on "bariatric" I get over 75 hits! Guideline is for over 40 bmi or over 35 bmi with obesity related conditions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK just so Virginia is not the only one - > > > > > > > Needs what needs - you mean the ones my husband keeps > > nagging about - not interested. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

I haven't pursued but I heard you had to go through the MOVE pgm. first. The

ability to get it done is probably dependent on how well you advocated for

yourself, I bet I could!

I haven't looked into it because I'm betting on an ADx to take care of it!

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[Guest guest]

Bet a beer it does not. Make that a low calorie beer.CEOn May 4, 2012, at 4:00 PM, wrote: I haven't pursued but I heard you had to go through the MOVE pgm. first. The ability to get it done is probably dependent on how well you advocated for yourself, I bet I could! I haven't looked into it because I'm betting on an ADx to take care of it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK just so Virginia is not the only one - > > > > > > > > > Needs what needs - you mean the ones my husband keeps > > > > nagging about - not interested. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >