Re: Spironolactone - Is It Right 4 U - Ladies?

[Guest guest]

LOL. I bet you'll live to regret this thread. Although I'm the only one speaking up so far...hey I'm a 31 yo woman with needs! Ok...maybe lack of needs. I'm a 31 yo woman who's husband has needs! Ha. Just out of curiosity, does cortisol play a part in any of this?VirginiaSent from my iPhone On May 3, 2012, at 9:36 AM, "jclark24p" <jclark24p@...> wrote:

God, don't consider me a sex expert! I am 65 years old with a testosterone level of 1.26 (range 1.95 - 11.38)! I tell people I barely have enough testosterone to keep my Brain Sexually Active!

> > > > >> > > > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and decided I'd see what "extras" Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies, didn't have to look far!> > > > > > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case studies.> > > > > > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119> > > > > > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen?> > > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dr. Grim, you have posted quite a bit that appears to cast doubt on the studies

I have posted. Are these based on facts (valid studies) or your opinion. I

post so people will have as complete a picture as possible to base their

decisions on. I don't care what people do with the info but I feel it important

they have all the informtion so they can make an informed decision.

I know from experience what happens when bone density is adversely impacted. My

mother-in-law spent the last few years of her life bedridden from brittle bones

that resulted in a broken hip. Not only was her QOL impacted but ours was too

since my wife took her turn weekly to care for her. I'm not saying they should

not take Spiro, I'm saying they should be aware of what it may be doing so they

can test and plan accordingly. In my case, NIH was very impressed with the

result of my bone density test. They were not as impressed with the results of

my vitamin D test and infact have me on a significant weekly dose of vitamin D

and will recheck in 8 weeks.

Everyone needs good information so they can make intellegent decisions!

> > >

> > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and decided I'd see

what " extras " Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies, didn't have to look

far!

> > >

> > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case studies.

> > >

> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119

> > >

> > > Do you really need less Androgen?

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know, I get so depressed just thinking about it Here, check it out for yourself:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21195074

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20507626

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18624961

Tell you what, NIH and I will fix it (hopefully) and I will tell you!

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and decided I'd see what "extras" Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies, didn't have to look far!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case studies.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

For those over 55 yo, 1/2 die within 1 year after breaking a hip. Don't have the reference, but that was the stats a few years back.

From: <jclark24p@...>Subject: Re: Spironolactone - Is It Right 4 U - Ladies?hyperaldosteronism Date: Thursday, May 3, 2012, 10:40 AM

Dr. Grim, you have posted quite a bit that appears to cast doubt on the studies I have posted. Are these based on facts (valid studies) or your opinion. I post so people will have as complete a picture as possible to base their decisions on. I don't care what people do with the info but I feel it important they have all the informtion so they can make an informed decision.I know from experience what happens when bone density is adversely impacted. My mother-in-law spent the last few years of her life bedridden from brittle bones that resulted in a broken hip. Not only was her QOL impacted but ours was too since my wife took her turn weekly to care for her. I'm not saying they should not take Spiro, I'm saying they should be aware of what it may be doing so they can test and plan accordingly. In my case, NIH was very impressed with the result of my bone density test. They were not as impressed with the results of my vitamin D test and infact

have me on a significant weekly dose of vitamin D and will recheck in 8 weeks.Everyone needs good information so they can make intellegent decisions!> > >> > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and decided I'd see what "extras" Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies, didn't have to look far!> > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case

studies.> > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119> > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen?> > >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Low sex drive isn't necessarily an issue with high aldo, but it is for those with HTN and those on HTN meds.

God, don't consider me a sex expert! I am 65 years old with a testosterone level of 1.26 (range 1.95 - 11.38)! I tell people I barely have enough testosterone to keep my Brain Sexually Active!

> > > > >> > > > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and decided I'd see what "extras" Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies, didn't have to look far!> > > > > > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case studies.> > > > > > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119> > > > > > > >

> > Do you really need less Androgen?> > > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

You didn't realize it - is that because they didn't tell you? Is it another example of you having specific complaints, ie.. fatigue, etc, and they just blew off the K as if K is just a sideline actor with no real role? The ER would fix mine when it was low, sometimes never tell me, until I saw my records, but anyone else never addressed a low K except to say it was probably just BP meds causing it, even when I asked them why it was always low.

Virginia,

Spironolactone is in a class of medications called aldosterone receptor antagonists.

Among other things it antagonizes androgen as part of the process (that is why it is often used as the first level of treatment for Transgender (M2F) changes.) . To break that down, let's look up a couple words:

androgen: male sex hormone: a natural or artificial male sex hormone responsible for the development of male sexual characteristics. Testosterone and androsterone are androgens.

Antagonists: pharmacology neutralizing agent: a drug that neutralizes the effect of a substance on the body

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

So this means it actually reduces testosterone. As for your experience, good for you but your experience is contrary to this study. There could be many reasons your libido went up, here are a couple. Was your testosterone too high to start with? Did Spiro correct PA to the point you got rid of that eternal headache? Now, if you used Eplerenone and left testosterone where it belonged AND fixed PA - WOW (Just remember you are not a teenager anymore and don't kill that old man!)

Sorry, NOT - you asked for that one! > > >> > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and decided I'd see what "extras" Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies, didn't have to look far!> > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case studies.> > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119> > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen?> > >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

She made it ~3 but she was in her late 80's!

> > > >

> > > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and decided I'd see

what " extras " Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies, didn't have to look

far!

> > > >

> > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case studies.

> > > >

> > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119

> > > >

> > > > Do you really need less Androgen?

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

OK just so Virginia is not the only one -

Needs what needs - you mean the ones my husband keeps nagging about - not

interested. However - I have several lab results of high testosterone -

anywhere from 2x to 4x above the normal range- based on this the first endo

decided I had PCOS - despite normal estrogen and FSH levels, several mildly

high cortisol levels, and no testing for Aldo - no history of infertility or

deranged menstrual cycles- the Mayas could have learned a thing or two about

calendars from me. Spiro is a common prescription for high testosterone but even

when I asked about it she refused to prescribe it. Instead she prescribed

metformin (which is often used to restore fertility and regular periods in PCOS

patients) and correg (which did not control the BP)

Fast forward 3 years - still high testosterone - beard, acne - lower voice (used

to be 1st soprano - now a bass)one month after my last appointment with her -

I'm near death due to heart damage from poorly controlled BP. Fix the heart and

cardio began to connect my continuing symptoms with Hyperaldosteronism and sent

me to endo 2- still high T, upper normal range cortisol, upper normal range Aldo

- began Spiro - in May 2010 - last menstrual cycle July 2010 (menopause at

last!) - increased Spiro September 2010 to 100 mg - Continue to have HA symptoms

periodically - for longer and longer periods - continue testing for HA - finally

get through the roof Aldo readings January 2012 - Adrenalectomy March 2012 - 1

month and 2 days later begin a normal period - so much for menopause.

I needed Spiro several years before I got it - In my case needed it for High T

as well as the aldo that was not showing up on labs but was damaging my heart

anyway -

As for the needs - well I've actually had a dirty thought or 2 since surgery so

that is progress - You would have thought with all the T - that would not have

been a problem - I guess too much is just as bad as too little.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and decided

I'd see what " extras " Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies, didn't have

to look far!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case

studies.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Maybe we should trade testosterone levels, (I'll even throw in a couple of

pretty good boobs!) Your case is another good example of where proper testing

could have predicted what might happen with spiro, in your case it should have

helped.

When you mention high cortisol and high testosterone in the same sentence I

start to think pituitary. I bet NIH would have liked to see that adenoma!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and decided

I'd see what " extras " Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies, didn't have

to look far!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case

studies.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Okay, I'll speak up on this one too. Let's just say that between feeling lousy

from being sick, and the fact that the tumor caused salt/water retention and I

felt fat and unattractive all the time, the only " needs " that I was concerned

about were my own, and the most pressing of those was the need to be left alone

when I felt this way. Which was 99.999% of the time.

Can't say whether this was caused directly - e.g. biochemically - by the

illness, or indirectly/psychologically. My guess is both.

>

> OK just so Virginia is not the only one -

> Needs what needs - you mean the ones my husband keeps nagging about - not

interested.

[Guest guest]

Is it cured? If it is tell me how and I'll set an appt. up for my wife! (She shares your needs and her "wants" are even less!)

> >> > OK just so Virginia is not the only one - > > Needs what needs - you mean the ones my husband keeps nagging about - not interested.>

[Guest guest]

Yeah , it's the craziest thing. Now that I am working on getting all my labs, I saw all the lab work my PCP did in 2009 before he decided to put me on BP meds. From what I can remember, he was looking for an underlying cause of my BP first. Kind of ironic isn't it? I was never told my K was low. I honestly don't remember a major problem with fatigue but I have had a lifelong attitude of toughing things out. I was taught not to whine lol. Also, is it possible to have such a gradual decline in K that you don't notice the symptoms as much? I did complain about fatigue/weight gain about 5-6 years ago and they tested my thyroid. (I probably should pull those labs too) But to answer your question, yes I had low K on 2 different tests and was not even informed. Pretty unbelievable isn't it?VirginiaSent from my iPhone On May 3, 2012, at 12:43 PM, Bingham <jlkbbk2003@...> wrote:

You didn't realize it - is that because they didn't tell you? Is it another example of you having specific complaints, ie.. fatigue, etc, and they just blew off the K as if K is just a sideline actor with no real role? The ER would fix mine when it was low, sometimes never tell me, until I saw my records, but anyone else never addressed a low K except to say it was probably just BP meds causing it, even when I asked them why it was always low.

Virginia,

Spironolactone is in a class of medications called aldosterone receptor antagonists.

Among other things it antagonizes androgen as part of the process (that is why it is often used as the first level of treatment for Transgender (M2F) changes.) . To break that down, let's look up a couple words:

androgen: male sex hormone: a natural or artificial male sex hormone responsible for the development of male sexual characteristics. Testosterone and androsterone are androgens.

Antagonists: pharmacology neutralizing agent: a drug that neutralizes the effect of a substance on the body

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

So this means it actually reduces testosterone. As for your experience, good for you but your experience is contrary to this study. There could be many reasons your libido went up, here are a couple. Was your testosterone too high to start with? Did Spiro correct PA to the point you got rid of that eternal headache? Now, if you used Eplerenone and left testosterone where it belonged AND fixed PA - WOW (Just remember you are not a teenager anymore and don't kill that old man!)

Sorry, NOT - you asked for that one! > > >> > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and decided I'd see what "extras" Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies, didn't have to look far!> > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case studies.> > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119> > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen?> > >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Thanks ladies for backing me up :-). I'm sure in his head my husband is understanding and supportive of this particular issue.... I just threw that in there as a joke for the girls lol. VirginiaSent from my iPhone On May 3, 2012, at 1:47 PM, " " <jclark24p@...> wrote:

Is it cured? If it is tell me how and I'll set an appt. up for my wife! (She shares your needs and her "wants" are even less!)

> >> > OK just so Virginia is not the only one - > > Needs what needs - you mean the ones my husband keeps nagging about - not interested.>

[Guest guest]

And mines not really a nag - just frustrated - as am I - here's to more dirty

thoughts maybe action will follow

> > > >

> > > > OK just so Virginia is not the only one -

> > > > Needs what needs - you mean the ones my husband keeps nagging about -

not interested.

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

T seems to be where it needs to be after surgery - but I bet I have to shave

more often than you - however my own boobs, according to my last mammogram and

husband, are just fine thank you - Seriously according to labs and scan -

pituitary was fine - recall that FSH was fine and ACTH preformed as expected on

Dex test - however cortisol did not suppress indicating an adrenal source for

cortisol production. This was prior to surgery and with other parts of my

endocrine system waking up (thyroid and ovaries) who knows what is next

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and

decided I'd see what " extras " Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies,

didn't have to look far!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case

studies.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Great, I do not have my results from NIH yet, doctor tried to contact me

yesterday. I'm hoping for the same answers from them and a plan to proceed.

So no go on the boobs huh, I really wish someone would take that one with the

bumps! BTW, if you shave at all you will probably win that bet, I hadn't shaved

for 3 years prior to going to MD. (my wife wouldn't let me go looking like a

" mountain man " !) The only reason I shaved 3 years ago was my daughter wouldn't

let me walk her down the aisle with a beard and when the wedding pictures came

back I realized I was the only man in the wedding party w/o chin whiskers!

Daddy's little girl, gotta love 'em! ;>)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and

decided I'd see what " extras " Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies,

didn't have to look far!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women:

case studies.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

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[Guest guest]

There are a number of reasons for a Dex test not to suppress cortisol. Bad dex,some can't metabolise dex, Some don't take it as instructed. Should always be repeated the experts say.Hope they measured aldo after dex as easy way to screen for GRA. In GRA aldo goes to nearly zero overnight.CE Grim MDOn May 3, 2012, at 3:39 PM, wrote:> T seems to be where it needs to be after surgery - but I bet I have to shave more often than you - however my own boobs, according to my last mammogram and husband, are just fine thank you - Seriously according to labs and scan - pituitary was fine - recall that FSH was fine and ACTH preformed as expected on Dex test - however cortisol did not suppress indicating an adrenal source for cortisol production. This was prior to surgery and with other parts of my endocrine system waking up (thyroid and ovaries) who knows what is next

[Guest guest]

And we've concluded, and I have personally done my own "let my lab do their thing" when they argued on how to take it right, that we know the K could be/is usually done wrong which elevates it not lowers it. So is it even right?

I suspect, and sorry women more than men, they ingore it because 1. while women are more in touch with their bodies than we men usually, they 2. women often get the brush off faster then a spider on the shoulder, because it seems - I SAID IT SEEMS is all - women complain of fatigue and weight troubles constantly, and we've all become a bit desensitized to it. I meant to say though that I suspect that many a woman, and man, are walking around exhausted, tingly, tired, whatever, and have a low K that is just ingored. Start there I would say now and fix it THEN see how they feel. I certainly because of my own situation and experience have a fondness for K anymore. I can look back and say with clarity that low K was the root of my complaints.

But we trudge on, and smile at the doctor, and talk nice, so they assume we can't be as tired as we say, or whatever our complaint was. I used to tell my wife how I felt like it was taking EVERY ounce of mental energy and physical energy to just get out of bed. I did get out of bed, but I didn't even understand at the time what I meant. K is better now and those feeling s are gone gone gone now.

K is my best buddy. Next to my wife of course!

Virginia,

Spironolactone is in a class of medications called aldosterone receptor antagonists.

Among other things it antagonizes androgen as part of the process (that is why it is often used as the first level of treatment for Transgender (M2F) changes.) . To break that down, let's look up a couple words:

androgen: male sex hormone: a natural or artificial male sex hormone responsible for the development of male sexual characteristics. Testosterone and androsterone are androgens.

Antagonists: pharmacology neutralizing agent: a drug that neutralizes the effect of a substance on the body

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

So this means it actually reduces testosterone. As for your experience, good for you but your experience is contrary to this study. There could be many reasons your libido went up, here are a couple. Was your testosterone too high to start with? Did Spiro correct PA to the point you got rid of that eternal headache? Now, if you used Eplerenone and left testosterone where it belonged AND fixed PA - WOW (Just remember you are not a teenager anymore and don't kill that old man!)

Sorry, NOT - you asked for that one! > > >> > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and decided I'd see what "extras" Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies, didn't have to look far!> > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case studies.> > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119> > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen?> > >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Young, old, in the middle, skinny, bigger, acne, no acne, beard, no beard, I have never met many, if any women, who say they "feel" attractive. Sick or not.

From: <jclark24p@...>Subject: Re: Spironolactone - Is It Right 4 U - Ladies?hyperaldosteronism Date: Thursday, May 3, 2012, 1:47 PM

Is it cured? If it is tell me how and I'll set an appt. up for my wife! (She shares your needs and her "wants" are even less!)

> >> > OK just so Virginia is not the only one - > > Needs what needs - you mean the ones my husband keeps nagging about - not interested.>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I am starting to realize that I need to start being what will in my opinion be ridiculously over dramatic to have drs understand what's going on. I tend to agree about women complaining a lot. Part of why I don't want to be a whiner is because I think it's so annoying lol. But I think I'm learning I have a high pain tolerance and can willpower through more than the average person, and that seems to be hindering my treatment to be honest. And get this, I called PCP today asking about my other labs and it was AUGUST 2009 I complained about fatigue (not as long ago as I thought) and we tested my thyroid. My K measured low TWICE in May 2009!! Like, are you kidding me?! And I wasn't even told. And you're right, the 2.9 & 3.3 levels in May 2009 were probably even LOWER! It's mind boggling. VirginiaSent from my iPhone On May 3, 2012, at 5:07 PM, Bingham <jlkbbk2003@...> wrote:

And we've concluded, and I have personally done my own "let my lab do their thing" when they argued on how to take it right, that we know the K could be/is usually done wrong which elevates it not lowers it. So is it even right?

I suspect, and sorry women more than men, they ingore it because 1. while women are more in touch with their bodies than we men usually, they 2. women often get the brush off faster then a spider on the shoulder, because it seems - I SAID IT SEEMS is all - women complain of fatigue and weight troubles constantly, and we've all become a bit desensitized to it. I meant to say though that I suspect that many a woman, and man, are walking around exhausted, tingly, tired, whatever, and have a low K that is just ingored. Start there I would say now and fix it THEN see how they feel. I certainly because of my own situation and experience have a fondness for K anymore. I can look back and say with clarity that low K was the root of my complaints.

But we trudge on, and smile at the doctor, and talk nice, so they assume we can't be as tired as we say, or whatever our complaint was. I used to tell my wife how I felt like it was taking EVERY ounce of mental energy and physical energy to just get out of bed. I did get out of bed, but I didn't even understand at the time what I meant. K is better now and those feeling s are gone gone gone now.

K is my best buddy. Next to my wife of course!

Virginia,

Spironolactone is in a class of medications called aldosterone receptor antagonists.

Among other things it antagonizes androgen as part of the process (that is why it is often used as the first level of treatment for Transgender (M2F) changes.) . To break that down, let's look up a couple words:

androgen: male sex hormone: a natural or artificial male sex hormone responsible for the development of male sexual characteristics. Testosterone and androsterone are androgens.

Antagonists: pharmacology neutralizing agent: a drug that neutralizes the effect of a substance on the body

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

So this means it actually reduces testosterone. As for your experience, good for you but your experience is contrary to this study. There could be many reasons your libido went up, here are a couple. Was your testosterone too high to start with? Did Spiro correct PA to the point you got rid of that eternal headache? Now, if you used Eplerenone and left testosterone where it belonged AND fixed PA - WOW (Just remember you are not a teenager anymore and don't kill that old man!)

Sorry, NOT - you asked for that one! > > >> > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and decided I'd see what "extras" Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies, didn't have to look far!> > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case studies.> > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119> > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen?> > >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Dr. Grim, if you " Snip " something please be sure to note it - I don't have a

husband and my boobs aren't just fine! Thanks.

>

> > > T seems to be where it needs to be after surgery - but I bet I

> > have to shave more often than you - however my own boobs, according

> > to my last mammogram and husband, are just fine thank you -

> > Seriously according to labs and scan - pituitary was fine - recall

> > that FSH was fine and ACTH preformed as expected on Dex test -

> > however cortisol did not suppress indicating an adrenal source for

> > cortisol production. This was prior to surgery and with other parts

> > of my endocrine system waking up (thyroid and ovaries) who knows

> > what is next

>

[Guest guest]

My husband grew a beard a few years ago - I fussed about it for months - nagging

him to shave - came home one day and he keeps grinning at me - took me 15

minutes to realize he had shaved off his beard - my final reaction - honey you

need to grow it back

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and

decided I'd see what " extras " Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies,

didn't have to look far!

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women:

case studies.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

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[Guest guest]

Wow , sounds like you know a lot of women with pretty low self esteem.

Adrenalectomy scars and all, I feel just fine now

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> > > OK just so Virginia is not the only one -

> > > Needs what needs - you mean the ones my husband keeps nagging about - not

interested.

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[Guest guest]

Was in all likelyhood your K slowly decreasing due to PA. Please take the evolution article to all who missed you so they will not keep missing folks like you there are many like you out there. CE Grim MDOn May 3, 2012, at 1:52 PM, Virginia Wall wrote: Yeah , it's the craziest thing. Now that I am working on getting all my labs, I saw all the lab work my PCP did in 2009 before he decided to put me on BP meds. From what I can remember, he was looking for an underlying cause of my BP first. Kind of ironic isn't it? I was never told my K was low. I honestly don't remember a major problem with fatigue but I have had a lifelong attitude of toughing things out. I was taught not to whine lol. Also, is it possible to have such a gradual decline in K that you don't notice the symptoms as much? I did complain about fatigue/weight gain about 5-6 years ago and they tested my thyroid. (I probably should pull those labs too) But to answer your question, yes I had low K on 2 different tests and was not even informed. Pretty unbelievable isn't it?VirginiaSent from my iPhone On May 3, 2012, at 12:43 PM, Bingham <jlkbbk2003@...> wrote: You didn't realize it - is that because they didn't tell you? Is it another example of you having specific complaints, ie.. fatigue, etc, and they just blew off the K as if K is just a sideline actor with no real role? The ER would fix mine when it was low, sometimes never tell me, until I saw my records, but anyone else never addressed a low K except to say it was probably just BP meds causing it, even when I asked them why it was always low. Virginia, Spironolactone is in a class of medications called aldosterone receptor antagonists. Among other things it antagonizes androgen as part of the process (that is why it is often used as the first level of treatment for Transgender (M2F) changes.) . To break that down, let's look up a couple words: androgen: male sex hormone: a natural or artificial male sex hormone responsible for the development of male sexual characteristics. Testosterone and androsterone are androgens. Antagonists: pharmacology neutralizing agent: a drug that neutralizes the effect of a substance on the body Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. So this means it actually reduces testosterone. As for your experience, good for you but your experience is contrary to this study. There could be many reasons your libido went up, here are a couple. Was your testosterone too high to start with? Did Spiro correct PA to the point you got rid of that eternal headache? Now, if you used Eplerenone and left testosterone where it belonged AND fixed PA - WOW (Just remember you are not a teenager anymore and don't kill that old man!) Sorry, NOT - you asked for that one! > > >> > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and decided I'd see what "extras" Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies, didn't have to look far!> > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case studies.> > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119> > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen?> > >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Was in all likelyhood your K slowly decreasing due to PA. Please take the evolution article to all who missed you so they will not keep missing folks like you there are many like you out there. CE Grim MDOn May 3, 2012, at 1:52 PM, Virginia Wall wrote: Yeah , it's the craziest thing. Now that I am working on getting all my labs, I saw all the lab work my PCP did in 2009 before he decided to put me on BP meds. From what I can remember, he was looking for an underlying cause of my BP first. Kind of ironic isn't it? I was never told my K was low. I honestly don't remember a major problem with fatigue but I have had a lifelong attitude of toughing things out. I was taught not to whine lol. Also, is it possible to have such a gradual decline in K that you don't notice the symptoms as much? I did complain about fatigue/weight gain about 5-6 years ago and they tested my thyroid. (I probably should pull those labs too) But to answer your question, yes I had low K on 2 different tests and was not even informed. Pretty unbelievable isn't it?VirginiaSent from my iPhone On May 3, 2012, at 12:43 PM, Bingham <jlkbbk2003@...> wrote: You didn't realize it - is that because they didn't tell you? Is it another example of you having specific complaints, ie.. fatigue, etc, and they just blew off the K as if K is just a sideline actor with no real role? The ER would fix mine when it was low, sometimes never tell me, until I saw my records, but anyone else never addressed a low K except to say it was probably just BP meds causing it, even when I asked them why it was always low. Virginia, Spironolactone is in a class of medications called aldosterone receptor antagonists. Among other things it antagonizes androgen as part of the process (that is why it is often used as the first level of treatment for Transgender (M2F) changes.) . To break that down, let's look up a couple words: androgen: male sex hormone: a natural or artificial male sex hormone responsible for the development of male sexual characteristics. Testosterone and androsterone are androgens. Antagonists: pharmacology neutralizing agent: a drug that neutralizes the effect of a substance on the body Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. So this means it actually reduces testosterone. As for your experience, good for you but your experience is contrary to this study. There could be many reasons your libido went up, here are a couple. Was your testosterone too high to start with? Did Spiro correct PA to the point you got rid of that eternal headache? Now, if you used Eplerenone and left testosterone where it belonged AND fixed PA - WOW (Just remember you are not a teenager anymore and don't kill that old man!) Sorry, NOT - you asked for that one! > > >> > > Since I decided to give Cortisol a rest I got bored and decided I'd see what "extras" Spironolactone might be doing for the ladies, didn't have to look far!> > > > > > Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in premenopausal women: case studies.> > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314119> > > > > > Do you really need less Androgen?> > >> > > >>