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Re: Wagers for AS shuting down??

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Lets not forget about environmental pollutions which existed long

before the insane vaccine schedule.

Also we need to remember that there was never an established level of

toxicity for thimerosal....people react differently to toxins based

upon physical tolerance....some may react to minute amounts.....

So just because someone got one shot over a dozen or more...doesnt

mean it wasnt the cause of autism due to a hypersensitivity or

reaction to small amounts of thimerosal.

There is a genetic component but there is no excuse for discounting

or ignoring an environmental one as well.

Ellen

>

> Why would a parent that doesnt agree with what these orgs are

doing

> with the money they raised from other parents want to raise a

dime

> for them?

>

> I am personally sick and tired of organizations lik NAAR, AS,

CAN and

> all the other genetic Nazis out there that discount research

into

> environmental causes and do purely genetic research. That call

> parents like myself who believe their is a connection between

the

> MMR, thimerosal, and vaccines and my childs autism/mercury

> poisoning " delusional. That call my son's regression after his

MMR

> and sound proof that my child is getting better through

> chelation " anecdotal " .....Org's like AS claim they are " funding

> global biomedical research into the causes, prevention,

treatments,

> and cure for autism " and theyre NOT.....if theyre duping

parents into

> raising money for them under the guise that theyre doing this

type of

> research, then we as parents have a right to criticize the way

they

> spend money that they bleed out of fellow parents who spend

their

> time and energies raising money for org's lying to them.....

> I for one have talked yet another parent out of walking for AS

this

> September here in NJ and I am damn proud of it...every dime I

deprive

> them of while insigificant in the grand scheme of things is a

victory

> to me.....

>

> If you cant understand this Pamela, well too goddamn bad.....

>

> Ellen

>

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, We passed our 10,000 viewing of Toy Story and are well into our 5,000th viewing of Beauty and The Beast. You should try it-the bats and the wolves are great! MaurineH <stratpat@...> wrote: They are ill-informed and we must inform them. -----

Original Message ----- From: christine EOHarm Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 11:34 AM Subject: Re: Re: Wagers for AS shuting down?? Hey ,Nice post.A lot of us live in a “biomed bubble” and forget sometimes that there are millions of people who think there is no connection between autism and vaccines/mercury/thimerosal/heavy metals, etc.On 7/3/07 10:34 AM, "Chap 'n Ali" <chapnalliverizon (DOT) net> wrote: Marty, I just wanted to say that I appreciate having you on this list because I think you represent a large community of people neither convinced for or against the vaccine culpability. I was a parent who saw for my own eyes that the vaccines were involved completely, but understand that if I hadn’t seen that, I would not be so strong in my convictions. No one should have told you that you don’t love your child if you vaccinated him. I would never tell anyone that, for it’s the most personal decision. But I try and inform anyone I can of where they can get all sources of information in order to make their own decisions

entirely informed. As I sit here with my son while he laughs uncontrollably from yeast overgrowth and is re-watching Toy Story 2 for the 10, 000th time, I renew my battle for better investment in treatments and fighting like hell to remove mercury from all vaccines and where ever else it may be. There are so many avenues to spend monies for research where Autism is concerned. But the research monies towards actual treatments to help their physical bodies, is so lacking it’s criminal. Are there areas of interest you have in particular, in regards to the physical nature of autism for research and how that may be directed towards actual treatments? I wanted to ask that question to London when I saw him speak but I was too new to everything and only in absorb mode and thought I was the only one who thought vaccines destroyed my son’s immune system. Thanks,

oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

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Thanks Maurine...this made me laugh.

>

> ,

> We passed our 10,000 viewing of Toy Story and are well into our

5,000th viewing of Beauty and The Beast. You should try it-the bats

and the wolves are great!

> Maurine

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Fair enough. Now I better understand your viewpoint. I don't completely agree but respect your opinion.

One point I may add for all and of interest. It is Andy Shih who exclusively pushes genetic research to the exclusion of other avenues. That was a sore point towards the end of NAAR and London believe or not and I lost in board votes to venture further in other directions.

Marty

> > > > > >> > > > > > As one who was never involved in NAAR or AS, I think what she> > said was> > > > > > not arrogant or mean-spirited. What I took she was saying is> > there> > > > > > hasn't been enough progress and if those who have been using the> > > > > > research money in a certain direction can't change course, then> > let> > > > > > someone else. IMO, her statement wasn't toward people, it was> > toward> > > > > > answers. She even came back & said it wasn't her intent. Saying> > > > > > answers need to be found isn't to me arrogant.> > > > > >> > > > > > I totally understand what your saying that grant money often has> > > > > > stipulations attached and genetic does have a place. But, only a> > part> > > > > > of the place. As I've said before, no more than 33% genetic, at> > least> > > > > > 33% environmental, and 33% behavioral, then you'll have a good> > > > > > blending of how to help the kids.> > > > > >> > > > > > Debi> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

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I don't call you anything except an advocate who passionately cares

about the cause. I just didn't like the term but so be it. I am over

it so forward we go.

marty

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As one who was never involved in NAAR or AS, I think what

> she

> > > > said was

> > > > > > not arrogant or mean-spirited. What I took she was saying is

> > > there

> > > > > > hasn't been enough progress and if those who have been using

> > > the

> > > > > > research money in a certain direction can't change course,

> > > then

> > > > let

> > > > > > someone else. IMO, her statement wasn't toward people, it

> was

> > > > toward

> > > > > > answers. She even came back & said it wasn't her intent.

> Saying

> > > > > > answers need to be found isn't to me arrogant.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I totally understand what your saying that grant money often

> > > has

> > > > > > stipulations attached and genetic does have a place. But,

> only

> > > a

> > > > part

> > > > > > of the place. As I've said before, no more than 33% genetic,

> > > at

> > > > least

> > > > > > 33% environmental, and 33% behavioral, then you'll have a

> good

> > > > > > blending of how to help the kids.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Debi

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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I am very interested in that. Is there any information you can share

relative to OCD and removal of mercury.

Thanks

Marty

> > > > >

> > > > > As one who was never involved in NAAR or AS, I think what she

said

> > was

> > > > > not arrogant or mean-spirited. What I took she was saying is

there

> > > > > hasn't been enough progress and if those who have been using

the

> > > > > research money in a certain direction can't change course,

then

> > let

> > > > > someone else. IMO, her statement wasn't toward people, it was

> > toward

> > > > > answers. She even came back & said it wasn't her intent.

Saying

> > > > > answers need to be found isn't to me arrogant.

> > > > >

> > > > > I totally understand what your saying that grant money often

has

> > > > > stipulations attached and genetic does have a place. But, only

a

> > part

> > > > > of the place. As I've said before, no more than 33% genetic,

at

> > least

> > > > > 33% environmental, and 33% behavioral, then you'll have a good

> > > > > blending of how to help the kids.

> > > > >

> > > > > Debi

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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I am really not sure where you're coming from Marty. Are you a mole for Autism Speaks? martinx2us <martyx2@...> wrote: Fair enough. Now I better understand your viewpoint. I don't completely agree but respect your opinion. One point I may add for all and of interest. It is Andy Shih who

exclusively pushes genetic research to the exclusion of other avenues. That was a sore point towards the end of NAAR and London believe or not and I lost in board votes to venture further in other directions. Marty > > > > > >> > > > > > As one who was never involved in NAAR or AS, I think what she> > said was> > > > > > not arrogant or mean-spirited. What I took she was saying is> > there> > > > > > hasn't been enough progress and if those who have been using the> > > > > > research money in a certain direction can't change course, then> > let> > > > > > someone else. IMO, her statement wasn't toward people, it was> > toward> > > > > > answers. She even came back & said it wasn't her intent. Saying> > > > > > answers need to be found isn't to me arrogant.> > > > > >> > > > > > I totally understand what your saying that grant money often has> > >

> > > stipulations attached and genetic does have a place. But, only a> > part> > > > > > of the place. As I've said before, no more than 33% genetic, at> > least> > > > > > 33% environmental, and 33% behavioral, then you'll have a good> > > > > > blending of how to help the kids.> > > > > >> > > > > > Debi> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

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Holy crap- are we going to go thru this again? Check the archives “”.

On 7/3/07 2:20 PM, " Hitter " <heatherhitter@...> wrote:

I am really not sure where you're coming from Marty. Are you a mole for Autism Speaks?

martinx2us <martyx2@...> wrote:

Fair enough. Now I better understand your viewpoint. I don't completely agree but respect your opinion.

One point I may add for all and of interest. It is Andy Shih who exclusively pushes genetic research to the exclusion of other avenues. That was a sore point towards the end of NAAR and London believe or not and I lost in board votes to venture further in other directions.

Marty

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As one who was never involved in NAAR or AS, I think what she

> > said was

> > > > > > not arrogant or mean-spirited. What I took she was saying is

> > there

> > > > > > hasn't been enough progress and if those who have been using the

> > > > > > research money in a certain direction can't change course, then

> > let

> > > > > > someone else. IMO, her statement wasn't toward people, it was

> > toward

> > > > > > answers. She even came back & said it wasn't her intent. Saying

> > > > > > answers need to be found isn't to me arrogant.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I totally understand what your saying that grant money often has

> > > > > > stipulations attached and genetic does have a place. But, only a

> > part

> > > > > > of the place. As I've said before, no more than 33% genetic, at

> > least

> > > > > > 33% environmental, and 33% behavioral, then you'll have a good

> > > > > > blending of how to help the kids.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Debi

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Actually , I think it's the other way around. Marty is giving us information on how this organization thinks to give us understanding on how we can best approach them. I know that the topic line for this is Wagers for AS shutting down, but do you really think that will happen? Look at their doners. So now we need to get the money into better hands and Marty is giving us good information on thier mindthink. . I for one do appreciate his information. He does not agree or disagree with the majority opinion here on vaccinations but would probably like to see the same research that we would to figure this out. He's a parent who would like to help his child too.

Kathleen The world is not yet exhausted; let me see something tomorrow which I never saw before.- *************************************************************************

Re: Re: Wagers for AS shuting down??

I am really not sure where you're coming from Marty. Are you a mole for Autism Speaks?

martinx2us <martyx2@...> wrote:

Fair enough. Now I better understand your viewpoint. I don't completely agree but respect your opinion.

One point I may add for all and of interest. It is Andy Shih who exclusively pushes genetic research to the exclusion of other avenues. That was a sore point towards the end of NAAR and London believe or not and I lost in board votes to venture further in other directions.

Marty

> > > > > >> > > > > > As one who was never involved in NAAR or AS, I think what she> > said was> > > > > > not arrogant or mean-spirited. What I took she was saying is> > there> > > > > > hasn't been enough progress and if those who have been

using the> > > > > > research money in a certain direction can't change course, then> > let> > > > > > someone else. IMO, her statement wasn't toward people, it was> > toward> > > > > > answers. She even came back & said it wasn't her intent. Saying> > > > > > answers need to be found isn't to me arrogant.> > > > > >> > > > > > I totally understand what your saying that grant money often has> > > > > > stipulations attached and genetic does have a place. But, only a> > part> > > > > > of the place. As I've said before, no more than 33% genetic, at> > least> > > > > > 33% environmental, and 33% behavioral, then you'll have a good> > > > > > blending of how to help the kids.> > > > > >>

> > > > > Debi> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

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I like to think him more as an apologist who is on this list to try to defuse a lot of the negative feelings and vitriole this group has toward Autism Speaks.

Re: Re: Wagers for AS shuting down??

I am really not sure where you're coming from Marty. Are you a mole for Autism Speaks?

martinx2us <martyx2rcn> wrote:

Fair enough. Now I better understand your viewpoint. I don't completely agree but respect your opinion.

One point I may add for all and of interest. It is Andy Shih who exclusively pushes genetic research to the exclusion of other avenues. That was a sore point towards the end of NAAR and London believe or not and I lost in board votes to venture further in other directions.

Marty

> > > > > >> > > > > > As one who was never involved in NAAR or AS, I think what she> > said was> > > > > > not arrogant or mean-spirited. What I took she was saying is> > there> > > > > > hasn't been enough progress and if those who have been using the> > > > > > research money in a certain direction can't change course, then> > let> > > > > > someone else. IMO, her statement wasn't toward people, it was> > toward> > > > > > answers. She even came back & said it wasn't her intent. Saying> > > > > > answers need to be found isn't to me arrogant.> > > > > >> > > > > > I totally understand what your saying that grant money often has> > > > > > stipulations attached and genetic does have a place. But, only a> > part> > > > > > of the place. As I've said before, no more than 33% genetic, at> > least> > > > > > 33% environmental, and 33% behavioral, then you'll have a good> > > > > > blending of how to help the kids.> > > > > >> > > > > > Debi> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

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How do you propose one should go about adequately testing a

childhood vaccine?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As one who was never involved in NAAR or AS, I think

> > what she

> > > > said was

> > > > > > not arrogant or mean-spirited. What I took she was

> > saying is there

> > > > > > hasn't been enough progress and if those who have been

> > using the

> > > > > > research money in a certain direction can't change

> > course, then

> > > > let

> > > > > > someone else. IMO, her statement wasn't toward people,

> > it was

> > > > toward

> > > > > > answers. She even came back & said it wasn't her

intent.

> > Saying

> > > > > > answers need to be found isn't to me arrogant.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I totally understand what your saying that grant money

> > often has

> > > > > > stipulations attached and genetic does have a place.

> > But, only a

> > > > part

> > > > > > of the place. As I've said before, no more than 33%

> > genetic, at

> > > > least

> > > > > > 33% environmental, and 33% behavioral, then you'll

have

> > a good

> > > > > > blending of how to help the kids.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Debi

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Helena, The best way to test new vaccines is to give them to all the

people who don't think vaccines cause any problems. Them no animals

will be harmed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As one who was never involved in NAAR or AS, I think

> > > what she

> > > > > said was

> > > > > > > not arrogant or mean-spirited. What I took she was

> > > saying is there

> > > > > > > hasn't been enough progress and if those who have

been

> > > using the

> > > > > > > research money in a certain direction can't change

> > > course, then

> > > > > let

> > > > > > > someone else. IMO, her statement wasn't toward

people,

> > > it was

> > > > > toward

> > > > > > > answers. She even came back & said it wasn't her

> intent.

> > > Saying

> > > > > > > answers need to be found isn't to me arrogant.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I totally understand what your saying that grant

money

> > > often has

> > > > > > > stipulations attached and genetic does have a place.

> > > But, only a

> > > > > part

> > > > > > > of the place. As I've said before, no more than 33%

> > > genetic, at

> > > > > least

> > > > > > > 33% environmental, and 33% behavioral, then you'll

> have

> > > a good

> > > > > > > blending of how to help the kids.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Debi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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I suggest not making them mandatory first......then giving parents

that are clueless about the risks the information about them and the

toxic ingredients and the risks associated with them. BE

HONEST.....I know thats hard for pharmaceutical companies and the

politicians that get their pockets lined by pharmafia lobbyists to

understand, but its gotta be done this way.

To test, I gotta agree with .....line all those people up that

call us crazy for believing there is a link between

neurodevelopmental problems and the vacciens our kids were given,

those making the vaccines, marketing them, profiting off of them,

etc, etc,.....test em on them.....show us how confident you are in

them.....

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As one who was never involved in NAAR or AS, I

think

> > > > what she

> > > > > > said was

> > > > > > > > not arrogant or mean-spirited. What I took she was

> > > > saying is there

> > > > > > > > hasn't been enough progress and if those who have

> been

> > > > using the

> > > > > > > > research money in a certain direction can't change

> > > > course, then

> > > > > > let

> > > > > > > > someone else. IMO, her statement wasn't toward

> people,

> > > > it was

> > > > > > toward

> > > > > > > > answers. She even came back & said it wasn't her

> > intent.

> > > > Saying

> > > > > > > > answers need to be found isn't to me arrogant.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I totally understand what your saying that grant

> money

> > > > often has

> > > > > > > > stipulations attached and genetic does have a

place.

> > > > But, only a

> > > > > > part

> > > > > > > > of the place. As I've said before, no more than 33%

> > > > genetic, at

> > > > > > least

> > > > > > > > 33% environmental, and 33% behavioral, then you'll

> > have

> > > > a good

> > > > > > > > blending of how to help the kids.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Debi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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For starters, I would look carefully at the individual components which are put into vaccines.

If a component is toxic- I would exclude it from vaccines.

I would look to do more long-term testing. The test system varying depending on the type of response (humoral or cell mediated) naturally elicited for that disease. That has to be done under rigid controls.

I would not recommend any vaccination for any child under the age of two- except in bona fide medical emergencies/ public health crisis. And then, it would only be a recommendation.

I would try to develop trust in the vaccine program, rather than lying like a shill after I've poisoned 30+ million babies. That will take a lot of time.

I would try to provide adequate, useful information so that parents may make intelligent, healthful decisions for their children.

I would not require vaccination under any circumstances. Instead, I would work to make the vaccines safe, effective and be very careful about side effects and reactions to same. I would rigorously compile data on side effects and untoward reactions. I would withdraw adminstering any vaccines which show evidence of lack of safety. I would try to convince people to be vaccinated using real, truthful, science-based evidence, rather than lying to them and destroying any trust they might have in the system.

I would never deny healthcare based upon some spurious vaccine mandate. It's contrary to both the hippocratic oath as well as the Nuremberg (and other international medical) codes. There may be instances (very, very limited) where a healthcare provider may require treatment to avoid placing a facility in jeopardy.

I would try to develop bioassays which measure biomarkers which evidence a condition reflective of immune dystunction or an inability to handle a vaccine.

I would take vaccine approval and recommendations immediately out of the hands of the CDC and FDA. They are totally unreliable.

I would try to remove any inherent conflicts of interest in the vaccine approval process.

As a start.

Re: Wagers for AS shuting down??

How do you propose one should go about adequately testing a childhood vaccine?> > > > > >> > > > > > As one who was never involved in NAAR or AS, I think > > what she> > > > said was> > > > > > not arrogant or mean-spirited. What I took she was > > saying is there> > > > > > hasn't been enough progress and if those who have been > > using the> > > > > > research money in a certain direction can't change > > course, then> > > > let> > > > > > someone else. IMO, her statement wasn't toward people, > > it was> > > > toward> > > > > > answers. She even came back & said it wasn't her intent. > > Saying> > > > > > answers need to be found isn't to me arrogant.> > > > > >> > > > > > I totally understand what your saying that grant money > > often has> > > > > > stipulations attached and genetic does have a place. > > But, only a> > > > part> > > > > > of the place. As I've said before, no more than 33% > > genetic, at> > > > least> > > > > > 33% environmental, and 33% behavioral, then you'll have > > a good> > > > > > blending of how to help the kids.> > > > > >> > > > > > Debi> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

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Sure on a top secret mission.

please tell us all about your mission while you are at it.

Marty

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As one who was never involved in NAAR or AS, I think what

she

> > > said was

> > > > > > > not arrogant or mean-spirited. What I took she was saying

is

> > > there

> > > > > > > hasn't been enough progress and if those who have been

using the

> > > > > > > research money in a certain direction can't change course,

then

> > > let

> > > > > > > someone else. IMO, her statement wasn't toward people, it

was

> > > toward

> > > > > > > answers. She even came back & said it wasn't her intent.

Saying

> > > > > > > answers need to be found isn't to me arrogant.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I totally understand what your saying that grant money

often has

> > > > > > > stipulations attached and genetic does have a place. But,

only a

> > > part

> > > > > > > of the place. As I've said before, no more than 33%

genetic, at

> > > least

> > > > > > > 33% environmental, and 33% behavioral, then you'll have a

good

> > > > > > > blending of how to help the kids.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Debi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Luggage? GPS? Comic books?

> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search.

>

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Amber,

Well, one solution we've latched onto, besides using standard detoxing agents. is a sauna made by Heavenly Heat (I have no associations with this company!) to use periodically, especially if we've been exposed to a bunch of stuff, and regularly after his metal load is down. For example, I'll probably hit it hard after the 4th of July since there are reportedly a lot of heavy metals in fireworks. The sauna is supposed to help with other things like PCB's and I LOVE the way I feel afterwards!!!

Our sauna was not cheap, but beautifully crafted and well made, also easy to assemble in about an hour.

We chose this brand because their saunas are used by many clinics that work with patients who have multiple chemical sensitivities and there is absolutely no glue or wood finish used on the product, nothing to let off toxins when heated.

I figure I can't control the world, but I can help get the stuff out of my family's systems.

(My hubby says he sweats enough on the job that he doesn't need it! Probably true, since he's the healthiest of us all!)

Barb

Re: Re: Wagers for AS shuting down??

How does one avoid it? Do we all move to North Dakota or third world countries? Lord knows our government certainly isn't going to clean up this country...jromkema wrote:

Yes, Amber, but you are still looking at toxicity issues and vaccines are just one way to deliver that toxicity to kids, albeit much more directly and in high doses!

Barb

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Not sure why you think I am an apologist but whatever. I don't mind

vitriolic rants or dislike towards Autism Speaks, however at times I

chime in if I feel I have something to add or to show another side to an

issue. Call that what you wish.

Marty

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As one who was never involved in NAAR or AS, I think what

she

> > > said was

> > > > > > > not arrogant or mean-spirited. What I took she was saying

is

> > > there

> > > > > > > hasn't been enough progress and if those who have been

using the

> > > > > > > research money in a certain direction can't change course,

then

> > > let

> > > > > > > someone else. IMO, her statement wasn't toward people, it

was

> > > toward

> > > > > > > answers. She even came back & said it wasn't her intent.

Saying

> > > > > > > answers need to be found isn't to me arrogant.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I totally understand what your saying that grant money

often has

> > > > > > > stipulations attached and genetic does have a place. But,

only a

> > > part

> > > > > > > of the place. As I've said before, no more than 33%

genetic, at

> > > least

> > > > > > > 33% environmental, and 33% behavioral, then you'll have a

good

> > > > > > > blending of how to help the kids.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Debi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------\

------

> Luggage? GPS? Comic books?

> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search.

>

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I thought it said on Marty's resume that he might be an Autism Speaks go for.

Re: Wagers for AS shuting down??

Sure on a top secret mission. please tell us all about your mission while you are at it.Marty> > > > > > >> > > > > > > As one who was never involved in NAAR or AS, I think whatshe> > > said was> > > > > > > not arrogant or mean-spirited. What I took she was sayingis> > > there> > > > > > > hasn't been enough progress and if those who have beenusing the> > > > > > > research money in a certain direction can't change course,then> > > let> > > > > > > someone else. IMO, her statement wasn't toward people, itwas> > > toward> > > > > > > answers. She even came back & said it wasn't her intent.Saying> > > > > > > answers need to be found isn't to me arrogant.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I totally understand what your saying that grant moneyoften has> > > > > > > stipulations attached and genetic does have a place. But,only a> > > part> > > > > > > of the place. As I've said before, no more than 33%genetic, at> > > least> > > > > > > 33% environmental, and 33% behavioral, then you'll have agood> > > > > > > blending of how to help the kids.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Debi> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------> Luggage? GPS? Comic books?> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search.>

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It seems like you're doing your best to ameliorate the vitriole and aggressive posture which presages an EOH Killer Bee attack on Autism Speaks. That tells us AS is feeling the heat.

I see that as a good thing.

That does not make you a mole, or a go for (gopher), but someone legitimately concerned that EOH is now wise to AS and concerned for AS. Believe me, you don't f__k with the moms of EOH.

Whether you are doing it for the survival of AS, or because you simply wish to change AS.

That's just how I see it.

Re: Wagers for AS shuting down??

Not sure why you think I am an apologist but whatever. I don't mindvitriolic rants or dislike towards Autism Speaks, however at times Ichime in if I feel I have something to add or to show another side to anissue. Call that what you wish.Marty> > > > > > >> > > > > > > As one who was never involved in NAAR or AS, I think whatshe> > > said was> > > > > > > not arrogant or mean-spirited. What I took she was sayingis> > > there> > > > > > > hasn't been enough progress and if those who have beenusing the> > > > > > > research money in a certain direction can't change course,then> > > let> > > > > > > someone else. IMO, her statement wasn't toward people, itwas> > > toward> > > > > > > answers. She even came back & said it wasn't her intent.Saying> > > > > > > answers need to be found isn't to me arrogant.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I totally understand what your saying that grant moneyoften has> > > > > > > stipulations attached and genetic does have a place. But,only a> > > part> > > > > > > of the place. As I've said before, no more than 33%genetic, at> > > least> > > > > > > 33% environmental, and 33% behavioral, then you'll have agood> > > > > > > blending of how to help the kids.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Debi> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------\------> Luggage? GPS? Comic books?> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search.>

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That's a good one. I do however find your reply laughable. How

pathetic to write " Believe me, you don't f__k with the moms of EOH. "

Believe as you wish.

Marty

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As one who was never involved in NAAR or AS, I think

what

> she

> > > > said was

> > > > > > > > not arrogant or mean-spirited. What I took she was

saying

> is

> > > > there

> > > > > > > > hasn't been enough progress and if those who have been

> using the

> > > > > > > > research money in a certain direction can't change

course,

> then

> > > > let

> > > > > > > > someone else. IMO, her statement wasn't toward people,

it

> was

> > > > toward

> > > > > > > > answers. She even came back & said it wasn't her intent.

> Saying

> > > > > > > > answers need to be found isn't to me arrogant.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I totally understand what your saying that grant money

> often has

> > > > > > > > stipulations attached and genetic does have a place.

But,

> only a

> > > > part

> > > > > > > > of the place. As I've said before, no more than 33%

> genetic, at

> > > > least

> > > > > > > > 33% environmental, and 33% behavioral, then you'll have

a

> good

> > > > > > > > blending of how to help the kids.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Debi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> ----------------------------------------------------------\

> ------

> > Luggage? GPS? Comic books?

> > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search.

> >

>

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Henry, I agree with you most often but in

this case I don’t see how this has gotten so unruly. Marty may have

defended NAAR, we most certainly don’t have to agree with that stance,

but I didn’t really see an AS butt kissing going on in his posts. I

thought I put out a good question/suggestion earlier and was waiting for a

response, instead more posturing. I like both of you from what responses

and queries I’ve seen, and am not defending anything so please don’t

bring down the gauntlet on me for saying this but, “PLAY NICE”!

Remember I’ve been watching Toy Story all day. -

From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of martinx2us

Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 5:56

PM

EOHarm

Subject: Re: Wagers for

AS shuting down??

That's a good one. I do however find your reply laughable. How

pathetic to write " Believe me, you don't f__k with the moms of EOH. "

Believe as you wish.

Marty

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As one who was never involved in NAAR

or AS, I think

what

> she

> > > > said was

> > > > > > > > not arrogant or mean-spirited. What I

took she was

saying

> is

> > > > there

> > > > > > > > hasn't been enough progress and if

those who have been

> using the

> > > > > > > > research money in a certain direction

can't change

course,

> then

> > > > let

> > > > > > > > someone else. IMO, her statement wasn't

toward people,

it

> was

> > > > toward

> > > > > > > > answers. She even came back & said

it wasn't her intent.

> Saying

> > > > > > > > answers need to be found isn't to me

arrogant.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I totally understand what your saying

that grant money

> often has

> > > > > > > > stipulations attached and genetic does

have a place.

But,

> only a

> > > > part

> > > > > > > > of the place. As I've said before, no

more than 33%

> genetic, at

> > > > least

> > > > > > > > 33% environmental, and 33% behavioral,

then you'll have

a

> good

> > > > > > > > blending of how to help the kids.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Debi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> ----------------------------------------------------------\

> ------

> > Luggage? GPS? Comic books?

> > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search.

> >

>

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Not sure about others, but my distaste for AS lies more with that

stupid video than anything else. I love my child but I hate, hate,

hate people who call him a burden because he is a gift. He's a

beautiful child and his autism does not make him a burden. I tell him

that every night during our bedtime routine - that he is smart, that I

know the words will come when he is ready, and how much I love him no

matter what.

Tepper Singer talking about how she'd contemplating driving off

a bridge with her ASD daughter but didn't because of her NT daughter

made me want to slap her. Especially when she said it in front of her

daughter. Non-verbal doesn't mean deaf or stupid and I am constantly

surprised at what my child pops up and says when I thought he wasn't

listening. I never talk about him as if he isn't there, I always try

to involve him in the conversation even if he's starting at the ceiling

fan, by saying, "isn't that right?" or something to that effect.

Seriously, don't we have enough parents of autistic children killing

their children just because they are autistic? Do we really need to

excuse that behavior by making those comments an acceptable part of

AS's mantra? Talk about vitriol...that video disgusted me.

H wrote:

It seems like you're doing your best

to ameliorate the vitriole and aggressive posture which presages an EOH

Killer Bee attack on Autism Speaks. That tells us AS is feeling the

heat.

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Ok, follow me here.... Bob is not a young man. He has had a

successful career for decades. I assume he was paid handsomely. I

assume he has other sources of income (cash reserves, other stocks,

private retirement plans, lots of houses all over the world, etc).

Is he really selling his soul ( & his family) for GE's retirement

package?

> > >

> > > If Bob and Suzanne had any integrity they would walk

away from

> > > AS and expose the group for what it really is. Oh, but the

$$$$$$$$

> > > seems to get in the way. Maybe they are taking their chances

with the

> > > bouncer at the Pearly Gates.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

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Hes not selling out his family......His grandson is benefiting from

the very therapies that we do every day....he and his wife openly

criticize these therapies and our beliefs when they say that their

beliefs do not match s......yet they supposedly pay for part of

these therapies for their grandchild....so Id like to know which one

is it for the s???.....do they believe the therapies are

helping or are they throwing their money away towards a placebo

therapy that their daughter is so desparately clinging to? My guess

is the former since Bob had a successful career and I am sure

his successes didnt come from throwing good money after bad in

anything he ever did.....including the care of his grandchild

There has got to be a reason and the only logical reason is his role

with GE, his pension, and the companies role in manufacturing

vaccines for overseas countries....

So yeah I guess maybe he did sell his soul....and GE was the highest

bidder....

> > > >

> > > > If Bob and Suzanne had any integrity they would walk

> away from

> > > > AS and expose the group for what it really is. Oh, but the

> $$$$$$$$

> > > > seems to get in the way. Maybe they are taking their chances

> with the

> > > > bouncer at the Pearly Gates.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Golden handcuffs?

Re: Wagers for AS shuting down??

Ok, follow me here.... Bob is not a young man. He has had a successful career for decades. I assume he was paid handsomely. I assume he has other sources of income (cash reserves, other stocks, private retirement plans, lots of houses all over the world, etc). Is he really selling his soul ( & his family) for GE's retirement package? > > >> > > If Bob and Suzanne had any integrity they would walk away from> > > AS and expose the group for what it really is. Oh, but the $$$$$$$$> > > seems to get in the way. Maybe they are taking their chances with the> > > bouncer at the Pearly Gates. > > > > > >> >>

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