Re: Mercury and DNA

[Guest guest]

THank you and Maurine. The best part of my son's dramatic

improvement is we didn't start until he was 11 (I

wasn't " enlightened " about the causes of autism until then).

I suspect some of his recent gains are result of mHBOT - we did our

first 40 dives starting in January.

Not every day is perfect He is still awkward. But I am incredibly

proud of him and the progress he has made.

> ,

> Just BEAUTIFUL!! Thank you for that inspirational story! -

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

> From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On

Behalf Of McDonough

> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 12:03 AM

> EOHarm

> Subject: Re: Mercury and DNA

>

>

> Great to hear. My son too has made dramatic improvement

with

> chelation and has not had any negative side effects whatsoever.

>

> For over a year (prior to chelation) my son had dangerously low

> calcium levels which we could not elevate despite supplementation.

> Just a few weeks after starting chelation his levels returned to

> normal.

>

> Pre-chelation he was rarely speaking, never interacting with

anyone

> unless he wanted/needed something, barely getting by in school,

> eating only a few foods, watching the same shows over and over,

> hardly ever slept, and had constant gut pain. He hated sunny days

> as his pupils were perpetually enlarged. He didn't read books, he

> lined them up in alphabetical order over and over. Little or no

eye

> contact.

>

> Post chelation (one year later): Almost a straight A student. Won

> the geography bee at his junior high school. Happy, witty,

> creative. Makes up his own jokes - and they're funny. Rides his

> bike around the park on sunny days; today he went jogging. Reads

> stories to his little sister. Greets the neighbors, who are

stunned

> by the change in him. Chimes in on conversations. Starts

> conversations. Talks on the phone, asks to have friends over. Has

> an eye for architecture and is familiar with many significant

> buildings in Chicago. Recently told me he wants to get married

some

> day and have kids. Follows directions better than the NT siblings

> and has great eye contact.

>

> Many, many people have commented on his improvement including his

> teachers, his DAN doctor, friends and family members. He is happy

> now, and enjoying life. Chelation Therapy and the DAN protocol is

> without a doubt the best thing we've ever done for him in his 12-

1/2

> years.

> _______________________________________________

> _______________

> > Be a PS3 game guru.

> > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at

> Games.

> > http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

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>

[Guest guest]

What is pterin test?

From: "Holly Bortfeld" <maximom@...>Reply-EOHarm To: <EOHarm >Subject: RE: Re: Mercury and DNADate: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:02:54 -0400

Yep, we do the doctor’s data urine tests every 2-3 months, along with RBC, CBC and chem screens. We did the porphyrin test (and the pterin tests which are very useful) too and will use it to check long term progress.

From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of Maurine MeleckSent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 5:44 PMEOHarm Subject: Re: Re: Mercury and DNA

we did the French test a while back. Right now -every 3 months during chelation we test with urine and fecal tests from Doctor's Data. The fecal test if the most telling-3 mo. ago his lead ran to the end of the chart- we do it on the 3rd day of chelation-which we do 3 days on 11 off-with T/D DMSA from Silsby.

Maurinetmiktliu <rtonihotmail> wrote:

Holly / Maureen - what test(s) are you using to monitor progressduring the chelation process? Is the porphyrin test giving you enoughinfo? My son is a mercury /lead kid - not off the chart, butconsistently elevated. thanks-randy > > PS, chelation ROCKS. My kid�s metals are reducing with every test.

We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love(and love to hate): TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

[Guest guest]

Posted by: " rhodopsin1 " rhodopsin1@...

rhodopsin1

Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:35 pm (PST)

Because you are trying to hold legitimate research

ransom.

> Because my tax dollars are being wasted on an NIH >

trial for chelation.

And of course, no tax dollars are " wasted " in any

other area... If you were truly concerned about

wasted tax dollars you would be fighting the chicken

pox and flu vaccines, neither of which have been

demonstrated to be effective in their primary mission.

Methinks you are more concerned that a proper study

will find chelation benefitial, and you will be found

to have neglected your child's medical need (should he

indeed have elevated metals) as well as defended a

position later found to be erroneous.

> Because when my son was diagnosed someone " trying >

to help " insisted that our son had been poisoned >

and that we had to chelate him immediately or we >

were failing him.

And you of course immediately tested him for metal

overload (very common in autistic children, but don't

let that hold you back) and found that he in fact had

no elevated metals in his body...

> Because a local DAN supporter insisted we read a >

ridiculous book about vaccines producing >

hallucinogenic tree frog venom in children with >

autism.

I believe that was Serrousi's book. A very small

subset of children were found to have this chemical in

their urine when tested with lab equipment developed

to identify unknown substances. I believe this was

caused by a type of fungus colonizing their GI tract,

not vaccines, although many people erroneously state

that people who question blind obediance to corrupt

vaccination policies blame vaccines for everything).

> Because vaccination rates are declining to levels >

that leave everyone susceptible to preventable and

> nasty diseases. The problem is so bad here in my >

community that the local school system had to >

suspend thousands of students until they received >

their vaccinations.

Actually, according to the CDC vaccination compliance

nationwide has never been higher. And with the

exceptions of MS and WV, all States have religious

exemptions codified in their laws that prevent them

from " suspending thousands of students until they

receive their vaccinations " . It cannot happen and it

hasn't happened.

Does that make you a fool for believing something

which hasn't occured or a liar who fabricated this

untruth?

> Because children have died in serving the view that

> autism is poisoning that can be reversed.

Name 2.

Using the boy in Pittsburg who died because his

physician ordered the wrong medication is hardly proof

that " children have died in serving the view that

autism is poisoning that can be reversed " . More kids

die each year from vaccinations (about 50 ea per year

from DTaP, HepB and MMR according to FOIA on the NVICP

between 1990 and 1999), therefore we must stop

vaccinations because at least 1500 children died in

the decade of the 90's.

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Bored stiff? Loosen up...

Download and play hundreds of games for free on Games.

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[Guest guest]

I don't think it is fair of you to clump all members of the EOH group as being

of one mind.

Yes, there are many people here who believe that Thimerosal caused great harm to

their

children. There is also plenty of evidence demonstrating the harm that

thimerosal can

cause.

This board was created so people can discuss the evidence, question the evidence

and

evaluate it. I believe that Dr. King stated his position well in that, as a

scientist, he does

not discount anything that is possible.

But, there are people here who disagree on different levels about what kind of

research

should be done. Personally, I think there should be genetic research but

directed toward

the genetic predisposition that some may have to environmental insults.

As a person who lives with autoimmune disease, I know all too well that there is

a genetic

factor at play that causes me to be more susceptible to certain chemicals,

metals and

other substances in the environment that hurts me. And by the way, no one has

ever

argued those studies and the belief that autoimmune disease is caused by a

genetic

predisposition then triggered by an environmental influence is accepted and

trusted. Even

the chemicals in hair dyes can cause a flare up of disease activity in

autoimmune disease.

So, the idea that these children can't have been harmed by an environmental

influence is

sticking your head in the sand. It is true that some may have other causes, such

as fragile

X, but many may have other causes.

It is unrealistic and downright wrong not to further studies into this area, in

my opinion.

Trust me, no one with autoimmune disease is claiming its a wonderful way of life

simply

because it is who we are. Something caused this and if it can be prevented, all

the better.

The same goes for any environmental trigger that may hurt a child.

Col

> > >

> > > Kirby asked, " Can anyone tell me if

> > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related

> > >to the " spontaneous " mutations mentioned in

> > >the study? "

> > >

> > >The editors and reviewers at the journal

> > >Science, one of the most prestigious research

> > >journals in the world, know the likelihood

> > >that thimerosal was the cause of the

> > >spontaneous mutations identified in

> > >this study. They thought it didn't

> > >warrant discussion.

> > >

> > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby

> > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that

> > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher

> > >and would seem qualified to explain this issue.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You don't Know it's genetics. If it is curable it is not .

I t could be your body is reacting to enviornmental stressors. Some folks get relief fom herbal detox . I have a book on how someone cured themselves from MS . Another book on how they cured themselves from Alzheimers, always more to explore.. nora g

Re: Mercury and DNA

I don't think it is fair of you to clump all members of the EOH group as being of one mind. Yes, there are many people here who believe that Thimerosal caused great harm to their children. There is also plenty of evidence demonstrating the harm that thimerosal can cause. This board was created so people can discuss the evidence, question the evidence and evaluate it. I believe that Dr. King stated his position well in that, as a scientist, he does not discount anything that is possible. But, there are people here who disagree on different levels about what kind of research should be done. Personally, I think there should be genetic research but directed toward the genetic predisposition that some may have to environmental insults. As a person who lives with autoimmune disease, I know all too well that there is a genetic factor at play that causes me to be more susceptible to certain chemicals, metals and other substances in the environment that hurts me. And by the way, no one has ever argued those studies and the belief that autoimmune disease is caused by a genetic predisposition then triggered by an environmental influence is accepted and trusted. Even the chemicals in hair dyes can cause a flare up of disease activity in autoimmune disease.So, the idea that these children can't have been harmed by an environmental influence is sticking your head in the sand. It is true that some may have other causes, such as fragile X, but many may have other causes. It is unrealistic and downright wrong not to further studies into this area, in my opinion. Trust me, no one with autoimmune disease is claiming its a wonderful way of life simply because it is who we are. Something caused this and if it can be prevented, all the better. The same goes for any environmental trigger that may hurt a child.Col> > >> > > Kirby asked, "Can anyone tell me if > > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related > > >to the "spontaneous" mutations mentioned in > > >the study?"> > >> > >The editors and reviewers at the journal> > >Science, one of the most prestigious research > > >journals in the world, know the likelihood > > >that thimerosal was the cause of the > > >spontaneous mutations identified in > > >this study. They thought it didn't > > >warrant discussion.> > >> > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby > > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that > > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher > > >and would seem qualified to explain this issue.> > >> > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

I disagree with this:

> > > >

> > > > Kirby asked, " Can anyone tell me if

> > > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related

> > > >to the " spontaneous " mutations mentioned in

> > > >the study? "

> > > >

> > > >The editors and reviewers at the journal

> > > >Science, one of the most prestigious research

> > > >journals in the world, know the likelihood

> > > >that thimerosal was the cause of the

> > > >spontaneous mutations identified in

> > > >this study. They thought it didn't

> > > >warrant discussion.

> > > >

> > > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby

> > > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that

> > > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher

> > > >and would seem qualified to explain this issue.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You may be right in that eventually, everyone may have a family history of this,

but it isn't

true now. Your last statement of them have a family history of " environmental "

exposures

rather than a history of auto-immune disease caused by their " genetics " is both

right and

wrong. People that have autoimmune diseases were introduced to some

environmental

exposure that triggered the disease. But, they also have a genetic

predisposition to be

affected in this way.

Think of it this way...only a certain percentage of children developed pink's

disease from

teething powders. The other kids were ok. Only a certain number of children

developed

autism or another neurodevelopmental disorder and the others are ok. Only a

certain

percentage of the population develops an autoimmune disease and the things they

are

exposed to are often the same things others are exposed to as well. Hair dyes do

not

cause disease activity in all people and not even in all people with autoimmune

diseases.

Some are affected by the chemicals in hair dyes, others are not. Some are

affected by the

sun (photosensitivity) (which can be caused by toxins and heavy metals such as

mercury)

and others with the same diseases are not affected by the sun. It varies

considerably

expect that they all have one thing in common.

They are susceptible to the affects of certain things that others are not.

Col

>

> With 1 in every 450 kids being diagnosed juvenile diabetics. 1 in every

> 150 autistic. God knows how many allergies, asthmas, etc. etc. Eventually

> EVERY family in America will have a GENETIC HISTORY OF AUTO-IMMUNE DISEASES.

>

> I believe they have a family history of " environmental " exposures rather

> than a history of auto-immune diseases caused by their " genetics " .

>

>

>

> ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone.

> Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

>

[Guest guest]

Col wrote:

"Your last statement of them have a family history of "environmental" exposures rather than a history of autoimmune disease caused by their "genetics" is both right and wrong. People that have autoimmune diseases were introduced to some environmental exposure that triggered the disease. But, they also have a genetic predisposition to be affected in this way.Think of it this way...only a certain percentage of children developed pink's disease from teething powders. The other kids were ok. Only a certain number of children developed autism or another neurodevelopmental disorder and the others are ok"

We agree that "genetics" plays a vital role in why certain "environmental toxins" cause autoimmune diseases in some children and not others.

However, it seems to me children benefited from identifying the "environmental toxin" that caused "pink's disease", rather than wasting a lot of time, energy and scarce resources seeking to identify the "predisposition genes" that made some children more susceptible to the disease.

As someone has said: "Genes are the gun, but, the enviroment is the trigger" that has caused the autism epidemic. Identifying the "trigger" appears far more urgent to me.AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

What part genetics, what part incidence associated with timing, dosage, condition of infant detoxification pathways (unrelated to genetics), fat levels, age, so many other issues.

Re: Mercury and DNA

You may be right in that eventually, everyone may have a family history of this, but it isn't true now. Your last statement of them have a family history of "environmental" exposures rather than a history of auto-immune disease caused by their "genetics" is both right and wrong. People that have autoimmune diseases were introduced to some environmental exposure that triggered the disease. But, they also have a genetic predisposition to be affected in this way.Think of it this way...only a certain percentage of children developed pink's disease from teething powders. The other kids were ok. Only a certain number of children developed autism or another neurodevelopmental disorder and the others are ok. Only a certain percentage of the population develops an autoimmune disease and the things they are exposed to are often the same things others are exposed to as well. Hair dyes do not cause disease activity in all people and not even in all people with autoimmune diseases. Some are affected by the chemicals in hair dyes, others are not. Some are affected by the sun (photosensitivity) (which can be caused by toxins and heavy metals such as mercury) and others with the same diseases are not affected by the sun. It varies considerably expect that they all have one thing in common.They are susceptible to the affects of certain things that others are not.Col>> With 1 in every 450 kids being diagnosed juvenile diabetics. 1 in every > 150 autistic. God knows how many allergies, asthmas, etc. etc. Eventually > EVERY family in America will have a GENETIC HISTORY OF AUTO-IMMUNE DISEASES. > > I believe they have a family history of "environmental" exposures rather > than a history of auto-immune diseases caused by their "genetics".> > > > ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.>

[Guest guest]

We may be spending too much time arguing about this genetics nonsense.

Stop poisoning the kids. They'll be fine.

Re: Mercury and DNA

Col wrote:

"Your last statement of them have a family history of "environmental" exposures rather than a history of autoimmune disease caused by their "genetics" is both right and wrong. People that have autoimmune diseases were introduced to some environmental exposure that triggered the disease. But, they also have a genetic predisposition to be affected in this way.Think of it this way...only a certain percentage of children developed pink's disease from teething powders. The other kids were ok. Only a certain number of children developed autism or another neurodevelopmental disorder and the others are ok"

We agree that "genetics" plays a vital role in why certain "environmental toxins" cause autoimmune diseases in some children and not others.

However, it seems to me children benefited from identifying the "environmental toxin" that caused "pink's disease", rather than wasting a lot of time, energy and scarce resources seeking to identify the "predisposition genes" that made some children more susceptible to the disease.

As someone has said: "Genes are the gun, but, the enviroment is the trigger" that has caused the autism epidemic. Identifying the "trigger" appears far more urgent to me.

AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

I totally agree with you on that. And in a perfect world, the people at the CDC,

the IOM and

AAP along with others would just remove the toxins and admit it. But they are

steadfast in

protecting their program. Pink disease didn't jeapordize their program or the

financial

status of the pharmaceutical industry the way this does.

Unfortunately, they have stated many times over that unless someone can show,

through

science, how the toxin actually causes autism and other disorders, they won't

even look at

it.

It is sad. They have all the data on the damage that can be done with Thimerosal

and other

forms of mercury, and they have the data on oxidative stress, low glutathione

levels and

so on....but they are still demanding an " explanation " as to why this can cause

autism and

other disorders.

It is frustrating and ridiculous and maddening but they have put that wall in

front of us

(the entire autism community) and we have to figure a way to knock it down.

I believe that we may be able to do that if we can show the susceptibility.

But, on principle, I completely agree with you. They should remove thimerosal

with or

without this 'proof' that they seek simply on the fact that it is so highly

toxic and is not a

necessary component of the vaccine. I'm with you on that all the way.

Col

>

>

> " Your last statement of them have a family history of " environmental "

> exposures

> rather than a history of autoimmune disease caused by their " genetics " is

> both right and

> wrong. People that have autoimmune diseases were introduced to some

> environmental

> exposure that triggered the disease. But, they also have a genetic

> predisposition to be

> affected in this way.

>

> Think of it this way...only a certain percentage of children developed

> pink's disease from

> teething powders. The other kids were ok. Only a certain number of children

> developed

> autism or another neurodevelopmental disorder and the others are ok "

>

> We agree that " genetics " plays a vital role in why certain " environmental

> toxins " cause autoimmune diseases in some children and not others.

>

> However, it seems to me children benefited from identifying the

> " environmental toxin " that caused " pink's disease " , rather than wasting a lot

of time,

> energy and scarce resources seeking to identify the " predisposition genes "

that

> made some children more susceptible to the disease.

>

> As someone has said: " Genes are the gun, but, the enviroment is the

> trigger " that has caused the autism epidemic. Identifying the " trigger "

appears

> far more urgent to me.

>

>

>

> ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone.

> Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

>

[Guest guest]

" analyzinggal " ,

First let me restate the reality that, for

mercury, the cart (genetics) has been put

before the horse (the causal trigger --

systemic or single-system poisoning by:

mercury [>85%], the MMR vaccine [<10%]

and other substances [<10%]).

Our expressed genetic make up is only a

factor in determining the magnitude of

the harm done by the environmental poisons

to which we are exposed.

Absent any exposure to a given critical

environmental poison, the incidence of

the diseases caused by that environmental

factor would be zero.

However, your generalization:

>But, they also have a genetic

>predisposition to be affected in

>this way,

is fundamentally flawed becuase other

factors, like active disease and/or

the treatment for a preceived active

disease may potentiate the poisoning

by the environmental insult even though

the person's genetics have NOT pre-

disposed the person affected to be

harmed by the level of exposure to

a given environmental toxin.

For example,

a. Giving acetoaminophen for pain reduces

glutathione thereby decreasing the

person's inate mercury detoxification

capability, and

b. Administering certain antibiotics

effectively inhibits the body's ability

to excrete mercury.

Moreover, your:

>Think of it this way...only a certain

>percentage of children developed pink's

>disease from teething powders. The

>other kids were ok,

is equally simplistic.

Just because they were not poisoned to the

degree that they diagnosed with " pink disease, "

(named after the bright grayish pink color in

the palm of the hand, bottom of the foot, and,

to a lesser extent, the cheeks of the face --

NOT " pink's disease " -- similar to the

" strange disease " name given by the Japanese

to the Minimata Bay residents poisoned by

mercury) does NOT mean that they were " ok "

-- only that the degree of mercury poisoning

failed to produce clinical symptoms that were

strong enough to elicit a diagnosis of " pink

disease " or was so severe that the child DIED

of mercury poisoning before any diagnosis of

" pink disease " could be rendered.

Yes, our genetic " susceptibility " is a major

factor in determining the outcomes obsderved

from a given " adverse " challenge to our life

but it is only one major factor; one's health

at the time of exposure is another major factor

as is the medicines being administered at the

time of the exposure to an " adverse " challenge.

For example, if you are exposed to a disease

that triggers your body's responding by

causing you to have a high fever for several

days, you are much more likely to survive when

you have many pounds of excess fat than when

you are malnourished or emaciated since your

body is forced to burn up muscle when you

have little or no fat to burn. [i know this

to be true from personal experience when,

after being vaccinated, I developed a high

(>106 degrees F [41 degrees C]) for 3 days

and lost 15 pounds (6.8 kg) of fat after

being vaccinated with an unidentified

vaccine shortly after beign drafted during

the late 1960s.]

Moreover, when it comes to a " susceptibility "

why do you limit your concerns to chemicals

and leave out diseases, including live-virus

vaccines?

Factually, as was pointed out, mercury is

such an insidious and systemic poison that

those who do not have an ASD disgnosis may

have been harmed to a lesser degree but,

to the extent they may be asthmatic (about 1

in 10 or higher today), have type 1 diabetes

(about 1 in 450), etc., they certainly are

not " ok. "

Hopefully, you understand that, to a first

approximation, the spectrum of harm for a

given level of exposure that is fatal to some

but leaves others virtually " unscathed " can be

approximated as a pseudo-Gaussian distribution

ranging from the unscathed through those with

an ASD [about 1 %] to the dead [up to 0.4%;

based on the excess infant mortality seen in

the US (0.643 %) over Singapore (0.229 %)].

By some estimates, the cummulative level of

recognized harm to young children from the use

of mercury compounds in medicine and dentistry

today affects at least 1 in every 3 children

and, based on the 2004 " Autism A.L.A.R.M. "

issued by our government and the healthcare

establishment, more 1 in 6 children has a

neurodevelopmental disorder or behavioral

problem.

Hopefully, this post has widened your under-

standing of reality when it comes to mercury

and you will do more study on the US " pink

disease " epidemic and the Japanese " strange

disease " that affected the people of Minimata

Bay and some other nearby areas in Japan.

Respectfully,

Dr. King

http://www.dr-king.com

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

At 21:40 3/24/07 -0000, analyzinggal wrote:

>

>You may be right in that eventually,

>everyone may have a family history

>of this, but it isn't true now. Your

>last statement of them have a family

>history of " environmental " exposures

>rather than a history of auto-immune

>disease caused by their " genetics "

>is both right and wrong. People that

>have autoimmune diseases were

>introduced to some environmental

>exposure that triggered the disease.

>But, they also have a genetic

>predisposition to be affected in

>this way.

>

>Think of it this way...only a certain

>percentage of children developed pink's

>disease from teething powders. The

>other kids were ok. Only a certain number

>of children developed autism or another

>neurodevelopmental disorder and the others

>are ok. Only a certain percentage of the

>population develops an autoimmune disease

>and the things they are exposed to are

>often the same things others are exposed

>to as well. Hair dyes do not cause

>disease activity in all people and not

>even in all people with autoimmune

>diseases. Some are affected by the

>chemicals in hair dyes, others are not.

>Some are affected by the sun (photosen-

>sitivity) (which can be caused by toxins

>and heavy metals such as mercury)

>and others with the same diseases are

>not affected by the sun. It varies

>considerably expect that they all have

>one thing in common.

>

>They are susceptible to the affects of

>certain things that others are not.

>

>Col

>

>

>>

>> With 1 in every 450 kids being

>> diagnosed juvenile diabetics.

>> 1 in every 150 autistic. God

>> knows how many allergies, asthmas, etc. etc.

>> Eventually EVERY family in America will have

>> a GENETIC HISTORY OF AUTO-IMMUNE DISEASES.

>>

>> I believe they have a family history of

>> " environmental " exposures rather than a

>> history of auto-immune diseases

>> caused by their " genetics " .

>>

>>

>><snip>

[Guest guest]

I do think there may be some genetic pre

disposition....BUT....some kids clearly got way more

mercury than others.....some kids had rhogam MOM's

with amalgams who ate seafood and got a flu shot and

then were vaccinated.....clearly some kids were

exposed to a lot more mercury than others.

--- Rmoffi@... wrote:

> Col wrote:

>

>

> " Your last statement of them have a family history

> of " environmental "

> exposures

> rather than a history of autoimmune disease caused

> by their " genetics " is

> both right and

> wrong. People that have autoimmune diseases were

> introduced to some

> environmental

> exposure that triggered the disease. But, they also

> have a genetic

> predisposition to be

> affected in this way.

>

> Think of it this way...only a certain percentage of

> children developed

> pink's disease from

> teething powders. The other kids were ok. Only a

> certain number of children

> developed

> autism or another neurodevelopmental disorder and

> the others are ok "

>

> We agree that " genetics " plays a vital role in why

> certain " environmental

> toxins " cause autoimmune diseases in some children

> and not others.

>

> However, it seems to me children benefited from

> identifying the

> " environmental toxin " that caused " pink's disease " ,

> rather than wasting a lot of time,

> energy and scarce resources seeking to identify the

> " predisposition genes " that

> made some children more susceptible to the disease.

>

>

> As someone has said: " Genes are the gun, but, the

> enviroment is the

> trigger " that has caused the autism epidemic.

> Identifying the " trigger " appears

> far more urgent to me.

>

>

>

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> offers free email to everyone.

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[Guest guest]

Dr. King,

First, thank you for your very thorough response. You are right in that I was

simply

generalizing.

I agree with you on every point with the exception of what you believe I know or

don't

understand about mercury or autoimmune disease.

I fully agree that there are many things at play here in what determined

separate children

to develop autism and other neurodevelopmental disorders. I also fully agree

that that

does not exclude the rising cases of asthma, allergies and juvenile diabetes.

But, in

generalizing, I did not list everything at play.

Considering there are also prenatal exposures at play from either amalgams and

shots for

Rh-negative women, which certainly plays a huge part in what has occurred to

these kids

as well, I concede completely that I was simplifying the matter.

However, to be fair, I wasn't really diving into every kind of exposure that

could/has

caused what we are seeing today in our children. I was simply trying to explain

the

autoimmune diseases angle that I strongly feel should be explored. We have

always known

that a certain number of children have been affected by Rho-GAM and other shots,

including vaccines, that transfered over to the fetus. This is particlarly true

considering the

numbers are disproportionate to the population of women who are Rh-negative.

We know there is also a higher risk for those mothers with several silver

fillings. We know

that the vaccines played into this if the mother received it, as well as what

the children

received themselves. What I was stating was that I would like to see the area of

autoimmunity in mothers and family members explored because of the link that is

becoming more apparent as time goes on.

I also did not mean to imply that all children who received thimerosal

containing vaccines

are perfectly fine. I am well aware of the amount of disabilities in our kids,

along with the

immune system dysfunction. For myself, I have a real fear of what we will soon

begin to

see in our 'unaffected' daughters as they get older and their own hormone levels

begin to

increase.

Also, I didn't limit my thinking to chemicals alone. Quite the contrary,

although I may have

stated this in another post, I spoke about the Epstein Barr virus being directly

linked to

autoimmune diseases like lupus. This virus alone can cause many reactions in

different

people. Some get the disease and recover. Others seem to fight it off and on for

years. Still

others go on to develop chronic fatigue syndrome, which in my opinion is the

beginnings

of autoimmune dysfunction. But, again, some remain there while others go on to

develop

lupus.

The same applies to other disease activity such as endometriosis, which like

juvenile

diabetes, was not recognized as autoimmune until recently. Neither was

fibromyalgia and I

am still waiting for them to make the announcement about Raynauds syndrome,

chronic

fatigue and irritable bowel syndrome which I think many believe to be autoimmune

but, to

my knowledge, have not yet been classified as such.

But a virus alone can derail the immune system and I am in full agreement with

you on

that. In fact, one thing that I feel fairly strongly about, as well, is the Hib

vaccine. In the

earliest studies done by Verstraeten, he mentioned in the end notes of Phase 1

that he did

find a link to the development of these neurodevelopmental disorders and the Hib

shot,

but did not find that correlation with the DTaP. Yet, this discovery was never

pursued. I

think that is another area that should have been explored more, either alone or

in

combination with the thimerosal and/or aluminum and other factors.

Further, hormonal influences play a huge part in all of this as well. This in

particular is

something that I find interesting and your friend and colleague, Dr. Mark Geier,

and I have

had lengthy discussions about this particular fact. This is something that

jumped out at

me in direct correlation with autoimmune disease because of the hormonal

influence.

For instance, lupus is what I centered my own focus on over the years because

this is what

I am living with. But, it also serves me well to know about this particular

disease because it

is the 'umbrella' from which all autoimmune diseases sit under. In other words,

if you have

lupus, you can develop any of the others with the most common being

hypothyroidism,

MS, fibromyalgia, endometriosis and asthma is also common. In contrast, many of

the

other autoimmune diseases stand alone.

This in many ways applies to autism as well. Autism is a mix of several

disorders at once,

while many of the others often stand alone. And yes, I am generalizing again.

But, the correlation between the two is strong. For instance, in autoimmune

disease, 9 out

of 10 are women. In autism, 8 out of 10 are boys. In lupus, estrogen plays a

significant

role in disease activity. The women tend to have higher than normal levels of

estrogen.

Men with autoimmune disease have lower than normal levels of testosterone.

In autism, as I am sure you know, the males have high levels of testosterone and

the girls

with autism also have higher than average levels of testosterone.

Women tend to develop autoimmune disease during childbearing years when their

hormonal levels are at their peak. In fact, it often sets in directly after

giving birth when

even more hormones are involved. Boys are born with high levels of hormones and

may be

more susceptible to damage by mercury because of this.

Further, both have low glutathione levels, oxidative stress, etc.

Further, women with lupus have a higher than average risk of having a son with a

developmental disorder. Not a daughter...just a son. The reason for this has

always been

'unknown'. However, if mercury or other toxins are a culprit, as I believe it

is, then this

may help to explain why their sons are so much more affected at birth than their

daughters.

The University of land has done studies on mercury and its affect in lupus

and they

found that it not only triggers the disease in mice, but it also causes a far

worse course of

the disease itself.

Further, many symptoms (varying) of mercury poisoning is present in lupus such

as

photosensitivity, redness of the palms and feet as well as the cheeks, and the

primary

organs targeted are the kidneys, the CNS, the skin, heart and lungs. I could go

on, but I

am sure you are aware of where I am going with this.

Ironically, the use of the flu shot has been one of controversy for years in

lupus and other

autoimmune diseases as it often causes a flare up of disease activity in some

patients. The

sickest I have ever been with my own disease was at a time when my doctors

recommended I get the flu shot because of my illness over the course of 2 years.

When I

switched doctors, he told me to stop and I got progressively better over time.

While studies in the past concerning amalgams and MS have proved to be

inconclusive,

those studies were mostly older and certainly none have explored the areas that

we now

know about one person's ability to remove toxins such as mercury from their body

as

compared to another's. Dr. Haley went into great detail about this particular

factor and this

is just another reason why I would like to see this area explored again. Since,

in these

studies, some patients did improve after having their fillings removed while

others did not,

a newer study looking at these other factors in combination with the removal of

fillings

may have very different results.

I also should tell you that I do have a clear understanding of pink disease and

what

occurred in Minimata. I also know the affects that mercury has on people, even

subtley

which, interestingly enough, tends to affect boys more than girls in the young

in the way

of neurodevelopmental issues and it affects women more than men in the way of

fatigue,

muscle pain and weakness and so on that closely resembles the beginnings of

autoimmune disease. Of course, I am again generalizing.

I am also well aware that many things can play a part in both the disease and

disorder.

Trust me, I live with this. I have lupus, endometriosis (past), hypothyroid

(also past...it only

presented when I was in my worst flare up), fibromyalgia and asthma. I could go

through

my entire health history but that's not really neccesary...and I have had

sources of mercury

exposure, even beyond fillings and vaccines.

I do appreciate your thorough post, and as you said, I was generalizing. But, in

fairness, I

simply did not write everything I know and understand about it. I haven't even

done so

here.

But, I think that even though I have not stated every single fact about why this

area should

be explored, I do believe that there is certainly enough evidence, factors and

correlations

that warrant this area of study to be opened up.

Colleen

> >>

> >> With 1 in every 450 kids being

> >> diagnosed juvenile diabetics.

> >> 1 in every 150 autistic. God

> >> knows how many allergies, asthmas, etc. etc.

> >> Eventually EVERY family in America will have

> >> a GENETIC HISTORY OF AUTO-IMMUNE DISEASES.

> >>

> >> I believe they have a family history of

> >> " environmental " exposures rather than a

> >> history of auto-immune diseases

> >> caused by their " genetics " .

> >>

> >>

> >><snip>

>

[Guest guest]

I was at Trader Joe’s tonight and I noticed they had a warning by the tuna fish. It just makes me sick.

On 3/26/07 3:34 AM, " analyzinggal " <mcstrom@...> wrote:

Hi ,

Absolutely. I agree completely.

> >

> >

> > " Your last statement of them have a family history

> > of " environmental "

> > exposures

> > rather than a history of autoimmune disease caused

> > by their " genetics " is

> > both right and

> > wrong. People that have autoimmune diseases were

> > introduced to some

> > environmental

> > exposure that triggered the disease. But, they also

> > have a genetic

> > predisposition to be

> > affected in this way.

> >

> > Think of it this way...only a certain percentage of

> > children developed

> > pink's disease from

> > teething powders. The other kids were ok. Only a

> > certain number of children

> > developed

> > autism or another neurodevelopmental disorder and

> > the others are ok "

> >

> > We agree that " genetics " plays a vital role in why

> > certain " environmental

> > toxins " cause autoimmune diseases in some children

> > and not others.

> >

> > However, it seems to me children benefited from

> > identifying the

> > " environmental toxin " that caused " pink's disease " ,

> > rather than wasting a lot of time,

> > energy and scarce resources seeking to identify the

> > " predisposition genes " that

> > made some children more susceptible to the disease.

> >

> >

> > As someone has said: " Genes are the gun, but, the

> > enviroment is the

> > trigger " that has caused the autism epidemic.

> > Identifying the " trigger " appears

> > far more urgent to me.

> >

> >

> >

> > ************************************** AOL now

> > offers free email to everyone.

> > Find out more about what's free from AOL at

> > http://www.aol.com.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________________

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> Go to the Q & A for great tips from Answers users.

> http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396546091 <http://answers./dir/?link=list & amp;sid=396546091>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Absolutely. I agree completely.

> >

> >

> > " Your last statement of them have a family history

> > of " environmental "

> > exposures

> > rather than a history of autoimmune disease caused

> > by their " genetics " is

> > both right and

> > wrong. People that have autoimmune diseases were

> > introduced to some

> > environmental

> > exposure that triggered the disease. But, they also

> > have a genetic

> > predisposition to be

> > affected in this way.

> >

> > Think of it this way...only a certain percentage of

> > children developed

> > pink's disease from

> > teething powders. The other kids were ok. Only a

> > certain number of children

> > developed

> > autism or another neurodevelopmental disorder and

> > the others are ok "

> >

> > We agree that " genetics " plays a vital role in why

> > certain " environmental

> > toxins " cause autoimmune diseases in some children

> > and not others.

> >

> > However, it seems to me children benefited from

> > identifying the

> > " environmental toxin " that caused " pink's disease " ,

> > rather than wasting a lot of time,

> > energy and scarce resources seeking to identify the

> > " predisposition genes " that

> > made some children more susceptible to the disease.

> >

> >

> > As someone has said: " Genes are the gun, but, the

> > enviroment is the

> > trigger " that has caused the autism epidemic.

> > Identifying the " trigger " appears

> > far more urgent to me.

> >

> >

> >

> > ************************************** AOL now

> > offers free email to everyone.

> > Find out more about what's free from AOL at

> > http://www.aol.com.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Oh, and didn't most of our older relatives get vaccinated also, may this stuff hits one generation differently that the later generations.. cumulative...? ng

Re: Mercury and DNA

Dear Col,I agree there is a link. I have several autoimmune diseases, endometriosis( diagnosed at age 18), hypothyroidism, and premature ovarian failure( diagnosed at age 39). My mother has psoriasis, my paternal grandmother, brother, and son have hypothyroidism. My son has Asperger's, adhd, asthma, moderate allergies, hypothyroidism. On his father's side, there are several family members with hypothyroidism and psoriasis. It has become my opinion that as we slowly poison each generation, the toxic effects are accumulating.Look foward to seeing your research...Houston TX> > > > >> > > > > Kirby asked, "Can anyone tell me if > > > > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related > > > > >to the "spontaneous" mutations mentioned in > > > > >the study?"> > > > >> > > > >The editors and reviewers at the journal> > > > >Science, one of the most prestigious research > > > > >journals in the world, know the likelihood > > > > >that thimerosal was the cause of the > > > > >spontaneous mutations identified in > > > > >this study. They thought it didn't > > > > >warrant discussion.> > > > >> > > > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby > > > > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that > > > > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher > > > > >and would seem qualified to explain this issue.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

I'd rather say genes are the Map not the Territory.....ng

Re: Mercury and DNA

Col wrote:

"Your last statement of them have a family history of "environmental" exposures rather than a history of autoimmune disease caused by their "genetics" is both right and wrong. People that have autoimmune diseases were introduced to some environmental exposure that triggered the disease. But, they also have a genetic predisposition to be affected in this way.Think of it this way...only a certain percentage of children developed pink's disease from teething powders. The other kids were ok. Only a certain number of children developed autism or another neurodevelopmental disorder and the others are ok"

We agree that "genetics" plays a vital role in why certain "environmental toxins" cause autoimmune diseases in some children and not others.

However, it seems to me children benefited from identifying the "environmental toxin" that caused "pink's disease", rather than wasting a lot of time, energy and scarce resources seeking to identify the "predisposition genes" that made some children more susceptible to the disease.

As someone has said: "Genes are the gun, but, the enviroment is the trigger" that has caused the autism epidemic. Identifying the "trigger" appears far more urgent to me.

AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

Hi Nora,

I think you are right about this also. For instance, in my own family, my older

relatives

were exposed to far less toxins than my generation. My aunt has hypothyroid

disease and

my father absolutely shows sings of ADD.

But for my generation, my brother and I were exposed to several sources of

mercury

through medications that I found through the ATSDR report. Back then they didn't

have a

name for ADHD, so they diagnosed him with " a hyperactvity disorder " . He was off

the map

hyper as he was even unable to sit through a half hour program on TV. He

couldn't even

make it 5 minutes.

He also, today, has some features of Asperger's but certainly not enough to be

diagnosed.

Nor was he anything like my son was. He didn't have speech or language issues or

coordination problems. In fact, he was quite agile and off the map intelligent.

He was

actually moved from his school to one for 'genius' children.

I, on the other hand, was more physically ill than him in other ways...stomach

problems,

aches and pains, etc. eventually developing an autoimmune disease.

My sisters, who were my half sisters and not from my father, had nothing wrong

and still

don't.

Then come to this generation who were exposed to an incredible amount of mercury

so

early. My son has asperger's which was far different as a toddler, resembling

more of

classic autism on many levels, and my daughter is in the gifted program but her

attention

span is scattered.

My brother's son, 2 years old, is healthy as can be and did not get the

Thimerosal.

And this, of course, is just one route of exposure to one toxin. I absolutely

think that if my

brother had been exposed to the amounts my kids were and at the age they were

exposed, he would have been autistic.

Col

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Kirby asked, " Can anyone tell me if

> > > > > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related

> > > > > >to the " spontaneous " mutations mentioned in

> > > > > >the study? "

> > > > > >

> > > > > >The editors and reviewers at the journal

> > > > > >Science, one of the most prestigious research

> > > > > >journals in the world, know the likelihood

> > > > > >that thimerosal was the cause of the

> > > > > >spontaneous mutations identified in

> > > > > >this study. They thought it didn't

> > > > > >warrant discussion.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby

> > > > > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that

> > > > > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher

> > > > > >and would seem qualified to explain this issue.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, from the perspective of the facts we have gathered at this time, we can look back and see a lot of skips and bumps in affect in the folks around us.

I for one am battling swapping letters and numbers still. I have had my amalgams out and done some chelation, but not enough evidently... I need to get back to the protocol, and hopefully improve...even at this late date ( I'm a grandma!) .

Spell check is a wonderful thing..when will we get MATH check? Nora

Re: Mercury and DNA

Hi Nora,I think you are right about this also. For instance, in my own family, my older relatives were exposed to far less toxins than my generation. My aunt has hypothyroid disease and my father absolutely shows sings of ADD. But for my generation, my brother and I were exposed to several sources of mercury through medications that I found through the ATSDR report. Back then they didn't have a name for ADHD, so they diagnosed him with "a hyperactvity disorder". He was off the map hyper as he was even unable to sit through a half hour program on TV. He couldn't even make it 5 minutes.He also, today, has some features of Asperger's but certainly not enough to be diagnosed. Nor was he anything like my son was. He didn't have speech or language issues or coordination problems. In fact, he was quite agile and off the map intelligent. He was actually moved from his school to one for 'genius' children. I, on the other hand, was more physically ill than him in other ways...stomach problems, aches and pains, etc. eventually developing an autoimmune disease. My sisters, who were my half sisters and not from my father, had nothing wrong and still don't.Then come to this generation who were exposed to an incredible amount of mercury so early. My son has asperger's which was far different as a toddler, resembling more of classic autism on many levels, and my daughter is in the gifted program but her attention span is scattered.My brother's son, 2 years old, is healthy as can be and did not get the Thimerosal.And this, of course, is just one route of exposure to one toxin. I absolutely think that if my brother had been exposed to the amounts my kids were and at the age they were exposed, he would have been autistic. Col> > > > > >> > > > > > Kirby asked, "Can anyone tell me if > > > > > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related > > > > > >to the "spontaneous" mutations mentioned in > > > > > >the study?"> > > > > >> > > > > >The editors and reviewers at the journal> > > > > >Science, one of the most prestigious research > > > > > >journals in the world, know the likelihood > > > > > >that thimerosal was the cause of the > > > > > >spontaneous mutations identified in > > > > > >this study. They thought it didn't > > > > > >warrant discussion.> > > > > >> > > > > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby > > > > > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that > > > > > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher > > > > > >and would seem qualified to explain this issue.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>