Re: Mercury and DNA

[Guest guest]

, I suspect you should e-mail the Geiers. Aren't they the genetic experts.? Kirby <dkirby@...> wrote: I have been looking at the mutagenic properties of mercury, and there is a lot of info on it. Specifically, this is from the intro to Baskin’ study on cell death from exposure to nanomolars of thimerosal. “In the body, ethylmercury can be converted to inorganic mercury, which then preferentially accumulates in the kidneys and brain (Blair et al., 1975). Inorganic mercury

is known to induce membrane and DNA damage (Ferrat et al., 2002;Ben-Ozer et al., 2000), and in cell culture conditions it was shown to be mutagenic and generate DNA breaks in concentrations below 500 nM (Schurz et al.,

2000). Ethylmercury can significantly increase the concentration of inorganic mercury in many organs (Magos et al., 1985).” His study likewise found that thimerosal caused DNA breaks in cell cultures of human neurons and fibroblasts: “Detection of Thimerosal-Induced DNA Damage” “We used TUNEL to detect DNA breaks generated in neurons and fibroblasts after 6 h of incubation with thimerosal. Following incubation, the cells were fixed, labeled by TUNEL, and counterstained by DAPI, which in these experiments was employed as a fluorescent DNA marker to visualize all cell nuclei in fixed

cell cultures. The results of these experiments demonstrate that TUNEL-positive cells were detected in ALL cell cultures after 6 h of incubation, up to the concentration of 2 µM of thimerosal.” Can anyone tell me if this could be related to the “spontaneous” mutations mentioned in the study? Thanks DK

8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Search movie showtime shortcut.

[Guest guest]

, I suspect you should e-mail the Geiers. Aren't they the genetic experts.? Kirby <dkirby@...> wrote: I have been looking at the mutagenic properties of mercury, and there is a lot of info on it. Specifically, this is from the intro to Baskin’ study on cell death from exposure to nanomolars of thimerosal. “In the body, ethylmercury can be converted to inorganic mercury, which then preferentially accumulates in the kidneys and brain (Blair et al., 1975). Inorganic mercury

is known to induce membrane and DNA damage (Ferrat et al., 2002;Ben-Ozer et al., 2000), and in cell culture conditions it was shown to be mutagenic and generate DNA breaks in concentrations below 500 nM (Schurz et al.,

2000). Ethylmercury can significantly increase the concentration of inorganic mercury in many organs (Magos et al., 1985).” His study likewise found that thimerosal caused DNA breaks in cell cultures of human neurons and fibroblasts: “Detection of Thimerosal-Induced DNA Damage” “We used TUNEL to detect DNA breaks generated in neurons and fibroblasts after 6 h of incubation with thimerosal. Following incubation, the cells were fixed, labeled by TUNEL, and counterstained by DAPI, which in these experiments was employed as a fluorescent DNA marker to visualize all cell nuclei in fixed

cell cultures. The results of these experiments demonstrate that TUNEL-positive cells were detected in ALL cell cultures after 6 h of incubation, up to the concentration of 2 µM of thimerosal.” Can anyone tell me if this could be related to the “spontaneous” mutations mentioned in the study? Thanks DK

8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Search movie showtime shortcut.

[Guest guest]

Kirby asked, " Can anyone tell me if this [thimerosal exposure]

could be related to the " spontaneous " mutations mentioned in the

study? "

The editors and reviewers at the journal Science, one of the most

prestigious research journals in the world, know the likelihood that

thimerosal was the cause of the spontaneous mutations identified in

this study. They thought it didn't warrant discussion.

Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby and to Dr. King just

how totally unlikely that scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic

researcher and would seem qualified to explain this issue.

>

> I have been looking at the mutagenic properties of mercury, and

there is

> a lot of info on it.

>

> Specifically, this is from the intro to Baskin' study on cell

> death from exposure to nanomolars of thimerosal.

>

> " In the body, ethylmercury can be converted to inorganic mercury,

which

> then preferentially accumulates in the kidneys and brain (Blair et

al.,

> 1975

> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#BLAIR-

ETAL-1

> 975#BLAIR-ETAL-1975> Go). Inorganic mercury is known to induce

membrane

> and DNA damage (Ferrat et al., 2002

> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#FERRAT-

ETAL-

> 2002#FERRAT-ETAL-2002> Go;Ben-Ozer et al., 2000

> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#BEN-

OZER-ETA

> L-2000#BEN-OZER-ETAL-2000> Go), and in cell culture conditions it

was

> shown to be mutagenic and generate DNA breaks in concentrations

below

> 500 nM (Schurz et al., 2000

> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#SCHURZ-

ETAL-

> 2000#SCHURZ-ETAL-2000> Go). Ethylmercury can significantly increase

the

> concentration of inorganic mercury in many organs (Magos et al.,

1985

> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#MAGOS-

ETAL-1

> 985#MAGOS-ETAL-1985> Go). "

>

> His study likewise found that thimerosal caused DNA breaks in cell

> cultures of human neurons and fibroblasts:

>

> " Detection of Thimerosal-Induced DNA Damage "

> " We used TUNEL to detect DNA breaks generated in neurons and

fibroblasts

> after 6 h of incubation with thimerosal. Following incubation, the

cells

> were fixed, labeled by TUNEL, and counterstained by DAPI, which in

these

> experiments was employed as a fluorescent DNA marker to visualize

all

> cell nuclei in fixed cell cultures.

> The results of these experiments demonstrate that TUNEL-positive

cells

> were detected in ALL cell cultures after 6 h of incubation, up to

the

> concentration of 2 µM of thimerosal. "

>

>

> Can anyone tell me if this could be related to the " spontaneous "

> mutations mentioned in the study?

> Thanks

> DK

>

[Guest guest]

Kirby asked, " Can anyone tell me if this [thimerosal exposure]

could be related to the " spontaneous " mutations mentioned in the

study? "

The editors and reviewers at the journal Science, one of the most

prestigious research journals in the world, know the likelihood that

thimerosal was the cause of the spontaneous mutations identified in

this study. They thought it didn't warrant discussion.

Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby and to Dr. King just

how totally unlikely that scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic

researcher and would seem qualified to explain this issue.

>

> I have been looking at the mutagenic properties of mercury, and

there is

> a lot of info on it.

>

> Specifically, this is from the intro to Baskin' study on cell

> death from exposure to nanomolars of thimerosal.

>

> " In the body, ethylmercury can be converted to inorganic mercury,

which

> then preferentially accumulates in the kidneys and brain (Blair et

al.,

> 1975

> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#BLAIR-

ETAL-1

> 975#BLAIR-ETAL-1975> Go). Inorganic mercury is known to induce

membrane

> and DNA damage (Ferrat et al., 2002

> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#FERRAT-

ETAL-

> 2002#FERRAT-ETAL-2002> Go;Ben-Ozer et al., 2000

> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#BEN-

OZER-ETA

> L-2000#BEN-OZER-ETAL-2000> Go), and in cell culture conditions it

was

> shown to be mutagenic and generate DNA breaks in concentrations

below

> 500 nM (Schurz et al., 2000

> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#SCHURZ-

ETAL-

> 2000#SCHURZ-ETAL-2000> Go). Ethylmercury can significantly increase

the

> concentration of inorganic mercury in many organs (Magos et al.,

1985

> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#MAGOS-

ETAL-1

> 985#MAGOS-ETAL-1985> Go). "

>

> His study likewise found that thimerosal caused DNA breaks in cell

> cultures of human neurons and fibroblasts:

>

> " Detection of Thimerosal-Induced DNA Damage "

> " We used TUNEL to detect DNA breaks generated in neurons and

fibroblasts

> after 6 h of incubation with thimerosal. Following incubation, the

cells

> were fixed, labeled by TUNEL, and counterstained by DAPI, which in

these

> experiments was employed as a fluorescent DNA marker to visualize

all

> cell nuclei in fixed cell cultures.

> The results of these experiments demonstrate that TUNEL-positive

cells

> were detected in ALL cell cultures after 6 h of incubation, up to

the

> concentration of 2 µM of thimerosal. "

>

>

> Can anyone tell me if this could be related to the " spontaneous "

> mutations mentioned in the study?

> Thanks

> DK

>

[Guest guest]

,

It's dissent, not hate. Rhodoprion makes a point, I mean, rhodopsin1.

However, IMO The editors and reviewers at the journal Science haven't

done jack for our kids except to sow complacency for the autism

epidemic by closing ranks in defense of mercury. Let them produce more

than facil alibis.

Lenny

EOHarm list co-host

> >

> > Kirby asked, " Can anyone tell me if this [thimerosal

> exposure]

> > could be related to the " spontaneous " mutations mentioned in the

> > study? "

> >

> > The editors and reviewers at the journal Science, one of the most

> > prestigious research journals in the world, know the likelihood

> that

> > thimerosal was the cause of the spontaneous mutations identified

> in

> > this study. They thought it didn't warrant discussion.

> >

> > Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby and to Dr. King just

> > how totally unlikely that scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic

> > researcher and would seem qualified to explain this issue.

>

[Guest guest]

Rhodopsin, By this time, many of us have lost faith in "creditable" medical journals. They publish what they will, according to their own agendas. The BMJ has become less accessible to us commoners/campaigners. The Lancet also stinks, partly thanks to the stupid letter that its editor apparently sent to Mike Stanton about Mark Geier's qualifications/background. That was totally unprofessional! Aasarhodopsin1 <rhodopsin1@...> wrote:

Kirby asked, "Can anyone tell me if this [thimerosal exposure] could be related to the "spontaneous" mutations mentioned in the study?"The editors and reviewers at the journal Science, one of the most prestigious research journals in the world, know the likelihood that thimerosal was the cause of the spontaneous mutations identified in this study. They thought it didn't warrant discussion.Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher and would seem qualified to explain this issue.>> I have been looking at the mutagenic properties of mercury, and there is> a lot of info on it.> > Specifically, this is from the intro to Baskin' study on cell> death from

exposure to nanomolars of thimerosal.> > "In the body, ethylmercury can be converted to inorganic mercury, which> then preferentially accumulates in the kidneys and brain (Blair et al.,> 1975> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#BLAIR-ETAL-1> 975#BLAIR-ETAL-1975> Go). Inorganic mercury is known to induce membrane> and DNA damage (Ferrat et al., 2002> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#FERRAT-ETAL-> 2002#FERRAT-ETAL-2002> Go;Ben-Ozer et al., 2000> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#BEN-OZER-ETA> L-2000#BEN-OZER-ETAL-2000> Go), and in cell culture conditions it was> shown to be mutagenic and generate DNA breaks in concentrations below> 500 nM (Schurz et al., 2000> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#SCHURZ-ETAL-> 2000#SCHURZ-ETAL-2000> Go). Ethylmercury can significantly increase the> concentration of inorganic mercury in many organs (Magos et al., 1985> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#MAGOS-ETAL-1> 985#MAGOS-ETAL-1985> Go).">

> His study likewise found that thimerosal caused DNA breaks in cell> cultures of human neurons and fibroblasts:> > "Detection of Thimerosal-Induced DNA Damage"> "We used TUNEL to detect DNA breaks generated in neurons and fibroblasts> after 6 h of incubation with thimerosal. Following incubation, the cells> were fixed, labeled by TUNEL, and counterstained by DAPI, which in these> experiments was employed as a fluorescent DNA marker to visualize all> cell nuclei in fixed cell cultures. > The results of these experiments demonstrate that TUNEL-positive cells> were detected in ALL cell cultures after 6 h of incubation, up to the> concentration of 2 µM of thimerosal."> > > Can anyone tell me if this could be related to the "spontaneous"> mutations mentioned in the study?> Thanks>

DK>

[Guest guest]

I think he was trying to out you as one of those nasty genetic researchers. Why hasn't anyone asked you for your relationship with Autism Speaks?

Heidi

From: " Hooker" <brian@...>Reply-EOHarm To: EOHarm Subject: Re: Mercury and DNADate: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 01:44:33 -0000

I'm sure that rhodopsin1 was feeling nothin' but love when he used my name in such a sarcastic way...> > >> > > Kirby asked, "Can anyone tell me if this [thimerosal > > exposure] > > > could be related to the "spontaneous" mutations mentioned in the > > > study?"> > > > > > The editors and reviewers at the journal Science, one of the most > > > prestigious research journals in the world, know the likelihood > > that > > > thimerosal was the cause of the spontaneous mutations identified > > in > > > this study. They thought it didn't warrant discussion.> > > > > > Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby and to Dr. King just > > > how totally unlikely that scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic > > > researcher and would seem qualified to explain this issue.> >>

[Guest guest]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed

Type in thimerosal mutagenicity.

Thimerosal is a known mutagen.

Re: Mercury and DNA

Kirby asked, "Can anyone tell me if this [thimerosal exposure] could be related to the "spontaneous" mutations mentioned in the study?"The editors and reviewers at the journal Science, one of the most prestigious research journals in the world, know the likelihood that thimerosal was the cause of the spontaneous mutations identified in this study. They thought it didn't warrant discussion.Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher and would seem qualified to explain this issue.>> I have been looking at the mutagenic properties of mercury, and there is> a lot of info on it.> > Specifically, this is from the intro to Baskin' study on cell> death from exposure to nanomolars of thimerosal.> > "In the body, ethylmercury can be converted to inorganic mercury, which> then preferentially accumulates in the kidneys and brain (Blair et al.,> 1975> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#BLAIR-ETAL-1> 975#BLAIR-ETAL-1975> Go). Inorganic mercury is known to induce membrane> and DNA damage (Ferrat et al., 2002> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#FERRAT-ETAL-> 2002#FERRAT-ETAL-2002> Go;Ben-Ozer et al., 2000> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#BEN-OZER-ETA> L-2000#BEN-OZER-ETAL-2000> Go), and in cell culture conditions it was> shown to be mutagenic and generate DNA breaks in concentrations below> 500 nM (Schurz et al., 2000> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#SCHURZ-ETAL-> 2000#SCHURZ-ETAL-2000> Go). Ethylmercury can significantly increase the> concentration of inorganic mercury in many organs (Magos et al., 1985> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#MAGOS-ETAL-1> 985#MAGOS-ETAL-1985> Go)."> > His study likewise found that thimerosal caused DNA breaks in cell> cultures of human neurons and fibroblasts:> > "Detection of Thimerosal-Induced DNA Damage"> "We used TUNEL to detect DNA breaks generated in neurons and fibroblasts> after 6 h of incubation with thimerosal. Following incubation, the cells> were fixed, labeled by TUNEL, and counterstained by DAPI, which in these> experiments was employed as a fluorescent DNA marker to visualize all> cell nuclei in fixed cell cultures. > The results of these experiments demonstrate that TUNEL-positive cells> were detected in ALL cell cultures after 6 h of incubation, up to the> concentration of 2 µM of thimerosal."> > > Can anyone tell me if this could be related to the "spontaneous"> mutations mentioned in the study?> Thanks> DK>

[Guest guest]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed

Type in thimerosal mutagenicity.

Thimerosal is a known mutagen.

Re: Mercury and DNA

Kirby asked, "Can anyone tell me if this [thimerosal exposure] could be related to the "spontaneous" mutations mentioned in the study?"The editors and reviewers at the journal Science, one of the most prestigious research journals in the world, know the likelihood that thimerosal was the cause of the spontaneous mutations identified in this study. They thought it didn't warrant discussion.Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher and would seem qualified to explain this issue.>> I have been looking at the mutagenic properties of mercury, and there is> a lot of info on it.> > Specifically, this is from the intro to Baskin' study on cell> death from exposure to nanomolars of thimerosal.> > "In the body, ethylmercury can be converted to inorganic mercury, which> then preferentially accumulates in the kidneys and brain (Blair et al.,> 1975> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#BLAIR-ETAL-1> 975#BLAIR-ETAL-1975> Go). Inorganic mercury is known to induce membrane> and DNA damage (Ferrat et al., 2002> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#FERRAT-ETAL-> 2002#FERRAT-ETAL-2002> Go;Ben-Ozer et al., 2000> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#BEN-OZER-ETA> L-2000#BEN-OZER-ETAL-2000> Go), and in cell culture conditions it was> shown to be mutagenic and generate DNA breaks in concentrations below> 500 nM (Schurz et al., 2000> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#SCHURZ-ETAL-> 2000#SCHURZ-ETAL-2000> Go). Ethylmercury can significantly increase the> concentration of inorganic mercury in many organs (Magos et al., 1985> <http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/2/361#MAGOS-ETAL-1> 985#MAGOS-ETAL-1985> Go)."> > His study likewise found that thimerosal caused DNA breaks in cell> cultures of human neurons and fibroblasts:> > "Detection of Thimerosal-Induced DNA Damage"> "We used TUNEL to detect DNA breaks generated in neurons and fibroblasts> after 6 h of incubation with thimerosal. Following incubation, the cells> were fixed, labeled by TUNEL, and counterstained by DAPI, which in these> experiments was employed as a fluorescent DNA marker to visualize all> cell nuclei in fixed cell cultures. > The results of these experiments demonstrate that TUNEL-positive cells> were detected in ALL cell cultures after 6 h of incubation, up to the> concentration of 2 µM of thimerosal."> > > Can anyone tell me if this could be related to the "spontaneous"> mutations mentioned in the study?> Thanks> DK>

[Guest guest]

Dear " rodopsin1 " ,

Forthright people that have a problem

with anything I post usually address

their objections to me and provide

evidence (at a minimum, peer-reviewed

journal references) that supports their

differences with what I have stated.

Since you have provided NO such references

proving that preconceptual and/or prenatal

exposure to Thimerosal or mercury CANNOT

cause the " spontaneous " mutations being

observed, then, as I stated, it is

scientifically POSSIBLE that such exposures

may be a cause.

As a true scientist, I am bound to accept

the possibility of any logical cause and

effect relationship (e.g., treating men, women

and pregnant women with a known mutagen

[Thimerosal] that metabolizes into " tissue-

bound inorganic mercury, " another mutagen,

may cause mutations:

a. in sperm and/or the egg or

b. at an early stage in fetal development

that could give rise to the " spontaneous "

mutations being reporterd.

As I intimated, I do not think that the

probability of the later option (during

early fetal development) is very high.

In addition, I did not even attempt guess the

probability for a viable sperm or egg mutation

from the father's or mother's prior exposure to

Thimerosal(mercury) [exposures occuring at some

time before conception].

Let me be perfectly clear, not bound by

" geneticists' orthodoxy, " I understand that all

things in science that are " possible " cannot be

dismissed simply because the current view of

science does not " believe " that certain environ-

mental toxins, like Thimerosal or mercury, can

cause the " spontaneous " mutations that are being

observed.

As a scientist, I must accept all rational options

as being possible until someone can prove they

are not possible.

Thus, your unsupported statements as to what

" you " think the " editors and reviewers at the

journal Science, ..., know, " or do NOT know,

carries NO weight with me -- NO pun intended.

Moreover, your " [m]aybe Dr. Hooker could explain

to Kirby and to Dr. King just how totally

unlikely that scenario is " ADMITS that it is a

POSSIBLE scenario.

Thus, based on your own words, you are agreeing

with me that the scenario broached by Kirby

as a question and answered by me as a " possibility "

is POSSIBLE though you believe that it is " totally

unlikely. "

Hopefully, to support your position, you will

provide peer-reviewed published articles that

have PROVEN that it is NOT possible for mercury

or Thimerosal to affect the sperm or egg to

cause these " spontaneous " mutations as well

as similar citations that prove that it is

impossible for Thimerosl or mercury to cause

mutations in early cell division of the

fertilized embryo like those being observed.

If you CANNOT provide such evidence, then

please refrain from posts such as these,

which appear to be ONLY an attempt to stir

up discord rather than to provide meaningful

commentary.

Respectfully,

Dr. King

http://www.dr-king.com

PS: In general, I subscribe to Dr. Hooker's

reality and do NOT attack those who are

truly working to find the root cause(s)

of the harm that is being done and either

eliminate it (or them) OR minimize its

(or their) effects so that the rate for

DSM autism will return to the 1 to 2 in

10,000 from whence it came or, if possible,

cease to exist -- goals that you do not

seem to share.

Moreover, when I find what appears to be

a factual error, I generally cite the

evidence on which my difference of view

is based -- hopefully, you will do the

same in the future.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

At 00:15 3/18/07 -0000, rhodopsin1 wrote:

>

> Kirby asked, " Can anyone tell me if

>this [thimerosal exposure] could be related

>to the " spontaneous " mutations mentioned in

>the study? "

>

>The editors and reviewers at the journal

>Science, one of the most prestigious research

>journals in the world, know the likelihood

>that thimerosal was the cause of the

>spontaneous mutations identified in

>this study. They thought it didn't

>warrant discussion.

>

>Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby

>and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that

>scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher

>and would seem qualified to explain this issue.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Beautifully put, Dr. King...

I don't have to talk " sense " into any such folks as honorable as you

and Mr. Kirby. Tom Hoaglund's (aka rhodopsin1 aka rhoprion) feeble

attempt at some bizarre " divide and conquer " tactic involving the 3

of us as protagonists, has failed miserably.

Somewhere, his best friend Ad Hominem is weeping softly.

> >

> > Kirby asked, " Can anyone tell me if

> >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related

> >to the " spontaneous " mutations mentioned in

> >the study? "

> >

> >The editors and reviewers at the journal

> >Science, one of the most prestigious research

> >journals in the world, know the likelihood

> >that thimerosal was the cause of the

> >spontaneous mutations identified in

> >this study. They thought it didn't

> >warrant discussion.

> >

> >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby

> >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that

> >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher

> >and would seem qualified to explain this issue.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The members of EoH hold a fervent belief in an unsupported hypothesis

that thimerosal is the cause of autism. They deride Autism Speaks

for funding a genomic study published in Nature Genetics that does

not support the thimerosal hypothesis. They claim it's a waste of

time and money, because they already know it's the thimerosal.

A study in the journal Science finds spontaneous CNVs in some

autistics. The study doesn't support vaccines as the culprit.

Rather it highlights a genetic, prenatal cause that yet again leaves

thimerosal out in the cold. In a rush to undermine the study, the

EoH experts suggest that thimerosal is a mutagen and so therefore

it's possible that the real cause of the findings are thimerosal

induced CNVs.

Let's examine that possibility. It means that thimerosal elegantly

cleves and duplicates DNA in several specific genotypes that cause

different autism phenotypes. If small doses of thimerosal can so

easily cause mutagenesis and/or aneuploidy related autism, it means

that thimerosal is also likely a cause of most every genetic disorder

known to man as well as the cause of spontaneous abortions due to

viability issues.

It means that the fathers were dosed with thimerosal within 72 days

of conception. It means that Fredrick Wellman, the subject of Dan

Olmstead's recent article, had a very weird mercury fetish that

lasted for at least 14 years after he stopped working with the

substance. It means that mothers are likely carrying stockpiles of

mutated eggs as the result of their childhood vaccinations. It means

that epidemiologists have missed a causal association that rivals

smoking and lung cancer.

Meanwhile the EoH spin cycle starts. Soon Kirby is sniffing

around to look for mileage. And so, when I suggest that maybe Dr.

Hooker can save you from yourselves, he remains silent. And instead,

Dr. King asks me to prove a negative by providing references that

eliminate thimerosal as the possible mutagenic culprit.

Dr. King does say that he doubts thimerosal is the cause. Well,

that's good. Cause while anything is possible not everything is

probable.

> >

> > Kirby asked, " Can anyone tell me if

> >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related

> >to the " spontaneous " mutations mentioned in

> >the study? "

> >

> >The editors and reviewers at the journal

> >Science, one of the most prestigious research

> >journals in the world, know the likelihood

> >that thimerosal was the cause of the

> >spontaneous mutations identified in

> >this study. They thought it didn't

> >warrant discussion.

> >

> >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby

> >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that

> >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher

> >and would seem qualified to explain this issue.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

hello..you ,who will are remaining nameless... you believe that lead posioning when ingested by young children causes mental retardation. you agree don't you? right? then why is it so hard for you to believe that mercury.. the deadliest toxin known to mankind.. when injected into the nervous systems can cause autism and other issues? why are you defending thimerosol? don't be insulting my intelligence and all others here. I know my son.. I know what happened after his vaccines. LiaAOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

Why do you bother wasting your time here then? We SHOULD be

irrelevant you, why aren't we?

> > >

> > > Kirby asked, " Can anyone tell me if

> > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related

> > >to the " spontaneous " mutations mentioned in

> > >the study? "

> > >

> > >The editors and reviewers at the journal

> > >Science, one of the most prestigious research

> > >journals in the world, know the likelihood

> > >that thimerosal was the cause of the

> > >spontaneous mutations identified in

> > >this study. They thought it didn't

> > >warrant discussion.

> > >

> > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby

> > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that

> > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher

> > >and would seem qualified to explain this issue.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> The members of EoH hold a fervent belief in an unsupported hypothesis

[. . .]

Your point here starts out with a fallacious device: there is no such

collective straw man that you have attempted to build, lumping us all

together under one set of polarized beliefs. Perhaps if you start

your observations with honest constructions, some of us on the EoHarm

list might take your intentions as made in good faith.

You could start out by signing your work. Who are you?

Lenny

Izak's dad

[Guest guest]

Because you are trying to hold legitimate research ransom.

Because my tax dollars are being wasted on an NIH trial for

chelation.

Because when my son was diagnosed someone " trying to help " insisted

that our son had been poisoned and that we had to chelate him

immediately or we were failing him.

Because a local DAN supporter insisted we read a ridiculous book

about vaccines producing hallucinogenic tree frog venom in children

with autism.

Because vaccination rates are declining to levels that leave everyone

susceptible to preventable and nasty diseases. The problem is so bad

here in my community that the local school system had to

suspend thousands of students until they received their vaccinations.

Because children have died in serving the view that autism is

poisoning that can be reversed.

> > > >

> > > > Kirby asked, " Can anyone tell me if

> > > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related

> > > >to the " spontaneous " mutations mentioned in

> > > >the study? "

> > > >

> > > >The editors and reviewers at the journal

> > > >Science, one of the most prestigious research

> > > >journals in the world, know the likelihood

> > > >that thimerosal was the cause of the

> > > >spontaneous mutations identified in

> > > >this study. They thought it didn't

> > > >warrant discussion.

> > > >

> > > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby

> > > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that

> > > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher

> > > >and would seem qualified to explain this issue.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> > > > >

> > > > > Kirby asked, " Can anyone tell me if

> > > > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related

> > > > >to the " spontaneous " mutations mentioned in

> > > > >the study? "

> > > > >

> > > > >The editors and reviewers at the journal

> > > > >Science, one of the most prestigious research

> > > > >journals in the world, know the likelihood

> > > > >that thimerosal was the cause of the

> > > > >spontaneous mutations identified in

> > > > >this study. They thought it didn't

> > > > >warrant discussion.

> > > > >

> > > > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby

> > > > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that

> > > > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher

> > > > >and would seem qualified to explain this issue.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Rhodopsin http://www.autism-hub.co.uk/ This is the link for Nitwits

Anonymous, you will be welcomed there.

> > > > >

> > > > > Kirby asked, " Can anyone tell me if

> > > > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related

> > > > >to the " spontaneous " mutations mentioned in

> > > > >the study? "

> > > > >

> > > > >The editors and reviewers at the journal

> > > > >Science, one of the most prestigious research

> > > > >journals in the world, know the likelihood

> > > > >that thimerosal was the cause of the

> > > > >spontaneous mutations identified in

> > > > >this study. They thought it didn't

> > > > >warrant discussion.

> > > > >

> > > > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby

> > > > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that

> > > > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher

> > > > >and would seem qualified to explain this issue.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Just to let you know I have been very successfully

chelating my child with a DAN doctor. My child has had

no negative reactions to chelation. He used to not

talk, now he does talk. He used to not sleep through

the night, and now he sleeps well. He used to run

around crazy hyper active, now he is calm and can sit

and do his schoolwork. He used to never look at me,

now he likes to look at me. Chelation has been used

safely and successfully for years. Maybe you should go

to the Autism Research Institutes website and see how

many parent feel chelation benefitted their children.

Maybe you should watch some videos of children

recovered from autism (AKA MERCURY POISONING). Open

your eyes!

--- rhodopsin1 <rhodopsin1@...> wrote:

> Because you are trying to hold legitimate research

> ransom.

>

> Because my tax dollars are being wasted on an NIH

> trial for

> chelation.

>

> Because when my son was diagnosed someone " trying to

> help " insisted

> that our son had been poisoned and that we had to

> chelate him

> immediately or we were failing him.

>

> Because a local DAN supporter insisted we read a

> ridiculous book

> about vaccines producing hallucinogenic tree frog

> venom in children

> with autism.

>

> Because vaccination rates are declining to levels

> that leave everyone

> susceptible to preventable and nasty diseases. The

> problem is so bad

> here in my community that the local school system

> had to

> suspend thousands of students until they received

> their vaccinations.

>

> Because children have died in serving the view that

> autism is

> poisoning that can be reversed.

>

>

>

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > Kirby asked, " Can anyone tell me if

> > > > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related

> > > > >to the " spontaneous " mutations mentioned in

> > > > >the study? "

> > > > >

> > > > >The editors and reviewers at the journal

> > > > >Science, one of the most prestigious research

>

> > > > >journals in the world, know the likelihood

> > > > >that thimerosal was the cause of the

> > > > >spontaneous mutations identified in

> > > > >this study. They thought it didn't

> > > > >warrant discussion.

> > > > >

> > > > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby

>

> > > > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely

> that

> > > > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic

> researcher

> > > > >and would seem qualified to explain this

> issue.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Be a PS3 game guru.

Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Games.

http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

[Guest guest]

My son is doing very well with chelation also- and no side effects.

Also- I’m so sick of people using that poor child’s death as an example of how chelation is dangerous.

It was human error- they gave him the wrong bag.

More children die from vaccine reactions then chelation- but no one wants to talk about THAT.

On 3/19/07 7:22 PM, " Fund " <susan_fund@...> wrote:

Just to let you know I have been very successfully

chelating my child with a DAN doctor. My child has had

no negative reactions to chelation. He used to not

talk, now he does talk. He used to not sleep through

the night, and now he sleeps well. He used to run

around crazy hyper active, now he is calm and can sit

and do his schoolwork. He used to never look at me,

now he likes to look at me. Chelation has been used

safely and successfully for years. Maybe you should go

to the Autism Research Institutes website and see how

many parent feel chelation benefitted their children.

Maybe you should watch some videos of children

recovered from autism (AKA MERCURY POISONING). Open

your eyes!

--- rhodopsin1 <rhodopsin1@... <mailto:rhodopsin1%40> > wrote:

> Because you are trying to hold legitimate research

> ransom.

>

> Because my tax dollars are being wasted on an NIH

> trial for

> chelation.

>

> Because when my son was diagnosed someone " trying to

> help " insisted

> that our son had been poisoned and that we had to

> chelate him

> immediately or we were failing him.

>

> Because a local DAN supporter insisted we read a

> ridiculous book

> about vaccines producing hallucinogenic tree frog

> venom in children

> with autism.

>

> Because vaccination rates are declining to levels

> that leave everyone

> susceptible to preventable and nasty diseases. The

> problem is so bad

> here in my community that the local school system

> had to

> suspend thousands of students until they received

> their vaccinations.

>

> Because children have died in serving the view that

> autism is

> poisoning that can be reversed.

>

>

>

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > Kirby asked, " Can anyone tell me if

> > > > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related

> > > > >to the " spontaneous " mutations mentioned in

> > > > >the study? "

> > > > >

> > > > >The editors and reviewers at the journal

> > > > >Science, one of the most prestigious research

>

> > > > >journals in the world, know the likelihood

> > > > >that thimerosal was the cause of the

> > > > >spontaneous mutations identified in

> > > > >this study. They thought it didn't

> > > > >warrant discussion.

> > > > >

> > > > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby

>

> > > > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely

> that

> > > > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic

> researcher

> > > > >and would seem qualified to explain this

> issue.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

__________________________________________________________

Be a PS3 game guru.

Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Games.

http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

[Guest guest]

More kids die from pharmaceuticals made

for diseases that are not autism than chelation, secretin or any of the other

things that actually work on our kids too.

PS, chelation ROCKS. My kid’s

metals are reducing with every test.

From:

EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of christine

Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 7:34

PM

EOHarm

Subject: Re: Re: Mercury

and DNA

My son is doing very well with

chelation also- and no side effects.

Also- I’m so sick of people using that poor child’s death as an

example of how chelation is dangerous.

It was human error- they gave him the wrong bag.

More children die from vaccine reactions then chelation- but no one wants to

talk about THAT.

On 3/19/07 7:22 PM, " Fund " <susan_fund >

wrote:

Just to let you know I have been very successfully

chelating my child with a DAN doctor. My child has had

no negative reactions to chelation. He used to not

talk, now he does talk. He used to not sleep through

the night, and now he sleeps well. He used to run

around crazy hyper active, now he is calm and can sit

and do his schoolwork. He used to never look at me,

now he likes to look at me. Chelation has been used

safely and successfully for years. Maybe you should go

to the Autism Research Institutes website and see how

many parent feel chelation benefitted their children.

Maybe you should watch some videos of children

recovered from autism (AKA MERCURY POISONING). Open

your eyes!

--- rhodopsin1 <rhodopsin1 <mailto:rhodopsin1%40>

> wrote:

> Because you are trying to hold legitimate research

> ransom.

>

> Because my tax dollars are being wasted on an NIH

> trial for

> chelation.

>

> Because when my son was diagnosed someone " trying to

> help " insisted

> that our son had been poisoned and that we had to

> chelate him

> immediately or we were failing him.

>

> Because a local DAN supporter insisted we read a

> ridiculous book

> about vaccines producing hallucinogenic tree frog

> venom in children

> with autism.

>

> Because vaccination rates are declining to levels

> that leave everyone

> susceptible to preventable and nasty diseases. The

> problem is so bad

> here in my community that the local school system

> had to

> suspend thousands of students until they received

> their vaccinations.

>

> Because children have died in serving the view that

> autism is

> poisoning that can be reversed.

>

>

>

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > Kirby asked, " Can anyone tell me if

> > > > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related

> > > > >to the " spontaneous " mutations mentioned in

> > > > >the study? "

> > > > >

> > > > >The editors and reviewers at the journal

> > > > >Science, one of the most prestigious research

>

> > > > >journals in the world, know the likelihood

> > > > >that thimerosal was the cause of the

> > > > >spontaneous mutations identified in

> > > > >this study. They thought it didn't

> > > > >warrant discussion.

> > > > >

> > > > >Maybe Dr.

Hooker could explain to Kirby

>

> > > > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely

> that

> > > > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic

> researcher

> > > > >and would seem qualified to explain this

> issue.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

__________________________________________________________

Be a PS3 game guru.

Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Games.

http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

[Guest guest]

The child died from medical error, which is now the most common cause of death in the United States. Much more common than cancer deaths or deaths from cardiovascular disease.

Chelation agents have been used successfully for many years from the early 1950's until today with few side effects.

That is not to say that errors cannot be made by doctors who use the wrong agent in the wrong way to produce an unfortunate result. That's actually a very common occurrence.

Maybe you could ferret out some information on the other 700,000+ deaths which occur each year from medical error.

Then report back to the group with your results!

Re: Re: Mercury and DNA

My son is doing very well with chelation also- and no side effects.Also- I’m so sick of people using that poor child’s death as an example of how chelation is dangerous.It was human error- they gave him the wrong bag.More children die from vaccine reactions then chelation- but no one wants to talk about THAT. On 3/19/07 7:22 PM, " Fund" <susan_fund > wrote:

Just to let you know I have been very successfullychelating my child with a DAN doctor. My child has hadno negative reactions to chelation. He used to nottalk, now he does talk. He used to not sleep throughthe night, and now he sleeps well. He used to runaround crazy hyper active, now he is calm and can sitand do his schoolwork. He used to never look at me,now he likes to look at me. Chelation has been usedsafely and successfully for years. Maybe you should goto the Autism Research Institutes website and see howmany parent feel chelation benefitted their children.Maybe you should watch some videos of childrenrecovered from autism (AKA MERCURY POISONING). Openyour eyes!--- rhodopsin1 <rhodopsin1 <mailto:rhodopsin1%40> > wrote:> Because you are trying to hold legitimate research> ransom. > > Because my tax dollars are being wasted on an NIH> trial for > chelation. > > Because when my son was diagnosed someone "trying to> help" insisted > that our son had been poisoned and that we had to> chelate him > immediately or we were failing him. > > Because a local DAN supporter insisted we read a> ridiculous book > about vaccines producing hallucinogenic tree frog> venom in children > with autism. > > Because vaccination rates are declining to levels> that leave everyone > susceptible to preventable and nasty diseases. The> problem is so bad > here in my community that the local school system> had to > suspend thousands of students until they received> their vaccinations. > > Because children have died in serving the view that> autism is > poisoning that can be reversed. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Kirby asked, "Can anyone tell me if > > > > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related > > > > >to the "spontaneous" mutations mentioned in > > > > >the study?"> > > > >> > > > >The editors and reviewers at the journal> > > > >Science, one of the most prestigious research> > > > > >journals in the world, know the likelihood > > > > >that thimerosal was the cause of the > > > > >spontaneous mutations identified in > > > > >this study. They thought it didn't > > > > >warrant discussion.> > > > >> > > > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby> > > > > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely> that > > > > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic> researcher > > > > >and would seem qualified to explain this> issue.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > __________________________________________________________Be a PS3 game guru.Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Games.http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

[Guest guest]

my grandson dumped so much lead the last time we tested-during chelation-that I had thoughts to open a pencil factory.Holly Bortfeld <maximom@...> wrote: More kids die from pharmaceuticals made for diseases that are not autism than chelation, secretin or any of the other things that actually work on our kids too. PS, chelation ROCKS. My kid’s metals are reducing with every test. From: EOHarm

[mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of christineSent: Monday, March 19, 2007 7:34 PMEOHarm Subject: Re: Re: Mercury and DNA My son is doing very well with chelation also- and no side effects.Also- I’m so sick of people using that poor child’s death as an example of how chelation is dangerous.It was human error- they gave him the wrong bag.More children die from vaccine reactions then chelation- but no one wants to talk about

THAT. On 3/19/07 7:22 PM, " Fund" <susan_fund > wrote: Just to let you know I have been very successfullychelating my child with a DAN doctor. My child has hadno negative reactions to chelation. He used to nottalk, now he does talk. He used to not sleep throughthe night, and now he sleeps well. He used to runaround crazy hyper active, now he is calm and can sitand do his schoolwork. He used to never look at me,now he likes to look at me. Chelation has been usedsafely and successfully for years. Maybe you should goto the Autism Research Institutes website and see howmany parent feel chelation benefitted their children.Maybe you should watch some videos of childrenrecovered from autism (AKA MERCURY

POISONING). Openyour eyes!--- rhodopsin1 <rhodopsin1 <mailto:rhodopsin1%40> > wrote:> Because you are trying to hold legitimate research> ransom. > > Because my tax dollars are being wasted on an NIH> trial for > chelation. > > Because when my son was diagnosed someone "trying to> help" insisted > that our son had been poisoned and that we had to> chelate him > immediately or we were failing him. > > Because a local DAN supporter insisted we read a> ridiculous book > about vaccines producing hallucinogenic tree frog> venom in children > with autism. > > Because vaccination rates are declining to levels> that leave everyone > susceptible to preventable and nasty diseases. The> problem is so bad

> here in my community that the local school system> had to > suspend thousands of students until they received> their vaccinations. > > Because children have died in serving the view that> autism is > poisoning that can be reversed. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Kirby asked, "Can anyone tell me if > > > > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related > > > > >to the "spontaneous" mutations mentioned in > > > > >the study?"> > > > >> > > > >The editors and

reviewers at the journal> > > > >Science, one of the most prestigious research> > > > > >journals in the world, know the likelihood > > > > >that thimerosal was the cause of the > > > > >spontaneous mutations identified in > > > > >this study. They thought it didn't > > > > >warrant discussion.> > > > >> > > > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby> > > > > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely> that > > > > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic> researcher > > > > >and would seem qualified to explain this> issue.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> > >

__________________________________________________________Be a PS3 game guru.Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Games.http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

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[Guest guest]

The study doesn't support vaccines as the culprit. > Rather it highlights a genetic, prenatal cause that yet again leaves > thimerosal out in the cold.

This could easily be translated into mercury given to mom during preganancy or mothers mercury load affecting the genes leading to genetic prenatal cause so whoever thinks it leaves thimerosal out in the cold is more than ridiculous.......

The only problem at all with the thimerosal vaccine causal trip is this.....its just not the ONLY cause of autism, its not the ONLY source of mercury contamination.....it just is not the only heavy metal and chemical compound that is freaking out the bodies of the children.

By the way last night I wrote to another autism group this after reading the Discovery article.

One very striking piece of evidence many of us have noticed is that when autistic children go in for certaindiagnostic tests and are told not to eat or drink anything ahead of time, parents often report their child¹s symptoms improve-until they start eating again after the procedure.

Now if this is really true I will say out loud shouting as loud as I can that it is a crying shame, a tragedy for these kids and their parents, that the medical community is not feeding these kids clay.

Mark Sircus Ac., OMDDirector International Medical Veritas Association

I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.It has removed 17084 spam emails to date.Paying users do not have this message in their emails.Try SPAMfighter for free now!

[Guest guest]

Can I ask when you started noticing the changes in your son? I started Oral DMPS on my 14 yr old son and we are now on round 7. Teachers are saying that he's a completely different kid than last year, more talkative, more cooperative, trying new things. (He's PDD/NOS.)

I've noticed at home he's more social, seems happier, saying more things. Just not sure how much change I should see by now or if it's too early to tell. (Also, does progress seem to accelerate if you add ALA?)

Thank you in advance for your input!!

Carla

In a message dated 3/19/2007 9:05:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kevntimmcd@... writes:

Many, many people have commented on his improvement including his teachers, his DAN doctor, friends and family members. He is happy now, and enjoying life. Chelation Therapy and the DAN protocol is without a doubt the best thing we've ever done for him in his 12-1/2 years.

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