Guest guest Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 THank you and Maurine. The best part of my son's dramatic improvement is we didn't start until he was 11 (I wasn't " enlightened " about the causes of autism until then). I suspect some of his recent gains are result of mHBOT - we did our first 40 dives starting in January. Not every day is perfect He is still awkward. But I am incredibly proud of him and the progress he has made. > , > Just BEAUTIFUL!! Thank you for that inspirational story! - > > > > --------------------------------- > > From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of McDonough > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 12:03 AM > EOHarm > Subject: Re: Mercury and DNA > > > Great to hear. My son too has made dramatic improvement with > chelation and has not had any negative side effects whatsoever. > > For over a year (prior to chelation) my son had dangerously low > calcium levels which we could not elevate despite supplementation. > Just a few weeks after starting chelation his levels returned to > normal. > > Pre-chelation he was rarely speaking, never interacting with anyone > unless he wanted/needed something, barely getting by in school, > eating only a few foods, watching the same shows over and over, > hardly ever slept, and had constant gut pain. He hated sunny days > as his pupils were perpetually enlarged. He didn't read books, he > lined them up in alphabetical order over and over. Little or no eye > contact. > > Post chelation (one year later): Almost a straight A student. Won > the geography bee at his junior high school. Happy, witty, > creative. Makes up his own jokes - and they're funny. Rides his > bike around the park on sunny days; today he went jogging. Reads > stories to his little sister. Greets the neighbors, who are stunned > by the change in him. Chimes in on conversations. Starts > conversations. Talks on the phone, asks to have friends over. Has > an eye for architecture and is familiar with many significant > buildings in Chicago. Recently told me he wants to get married some > day and have kids. Follows directions better than the NT siblings > and has great eye contact. > > Many, many people have commented on his improvement including his > teachers, his DAN doctor, friends and family members. He is happy > now, and enjoying life. Chelation Therapy and the DAN protocol is > without a doubt the best thing we've ever done for him in his 12- 1/2 > years. > _______________________________________________ > _______________ > > Be a PS3 game guru. > > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at > Games. > > http://videogames./platform?platform=120121 > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > Try the Beta. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 What is pterin test? From: "Holly Bortfeld" <maximom@...>Reply-EOHarm To: <EOHarm >Subject: RE: Re: Mercury and DNADate: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:02:54 -0400 Yep, we do the doctor’s data urine tests every 2-3 months, along with RBC, CBC and chem screens. We did the porphyrin test (and the pterin tests which are very useful) too and will use it to check long term progress. From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of Maurine MeleckSent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 5:44 PMEOHarm Subject: Re: Re: Mercury and DNA we did the French test a while back. Right now -every 3 months during chelation we test with urine and fecal tests from Doctor's Data. The fecal test if the most telling-3 mo. ago his lead ran to the end of the chart- we do it on the 3rd day of chelation-which we do 3 days on 11 off-with T/D DMSA from Silsby. Maurinetmiktliu <rtonihotmail> wrote: Holly / Maureen - what test(s) are you using to monitor progressduring the chelation process? Is the porphyrin test giving you enoughinfo? My son is a mercury /lead kid - not off the chart, butconsistently elevated. thanks-randy > > PS, chelation ROCKS. My kid�s metals are reducing with every test. We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love(and love to hate): TV's Guilty Pleasures list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Posted by: " rhodopsin1 " rhodopsin1@... rhodopsin1 Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:35 pm (PST) Because you are trying to hold legitimate research ransom. > Because my tax dollars are being wasted on an NIH > trial for chelation. And of course, no tax dollars are " wasted " in any other area... If you were truly concerned about wasted tax dollars you would be fighting the chicken pox and flu vaccines, neither of which have been demonstrated to be effective in their primary mission. Methinks you are more concerned that a proper study will find chelation benefitial, and you will be found to have neglected your child's medical need (should he indeed have elevated metals) as well as defended a position later found to be erroneous. > Because when my son was diagnosed someone " trying > to help " insisted that our son had been poisoned > and that we had to chelate him immediately or we > were failing him. And you of course immediately tested him for metal overload (very common in autistic children, but don't let that hold you back) and found that he in fact had no elevated metals in his body... > Because a local DAN supporter insisted we read a > ridiculous book about vaccines producing > hallucinogenic tree frog venom in children with > autism. I believe that was Serrousi's book. A very small subset of children were found to have this chemical in their urine when tested with lab equipment developed to identify unknown substances. I believe this was caused by a type of fungus colonizing their GI tract, not vaccines, although many people erroneously state that people who question blind obediance to corrupt vaccination policies blame vaccines for everything). > Because vaccination rates are declining to levels > that leave everyone susceptible to preventable and > nasty diseases. The problem is so bad here in my > community that the local school system had to > suspend thousands of students until they received > their vaccinations. Actually, according to the CDC vaccination compliance nationwide has never been higher. And with the exceptions of MS and WV, all States have religious exemptions codified in their laws that prevent them from " suspending thousands of students until they receive their vaccinations " . It cannot happen and it hasn't happened. Does that make you a fool for believing something which hasn't occured or a liar who fabricated this untruth? > Because children have died in serving the view that > autism is poisoning that can be reversed. Name 2. Using the boy in Pittsburg who died because his physician ordered the wrong medication is hardly proof that " children have died in serving the view that autism is poisoning that can be reversed " . More kids die each year from vaccinations (about 50 ea per year from DTaP, HepB and MMR according to FOIA on the NVICP between 1990 and 1999), therefore we must stop vaccinations because at least 1500 children died in the decade of the 90's. ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Games. http://games./games/front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 I don't think it is fair of you to clump all members of the EOH group as being of one mind. Yes, there are many people here who believe that Thimerosal caused great harm to their children. There is also plenty of evidence demonstrating the harm that thimerosal can cause. This board was created so people can discuss the evidence, question the evidence and evaluate it. I believe that Dr. King stated his position well in that, as a scientist, he does not discount anything that is possible. But, there are people here who disagree on different levels about what kind of research should be done. Personally, I think there should be genetic research but directed toward the genetic predisposition that some may have to environmental insults. As a person who lives with autoimmune disease, I know all too well that there is a genetic factor at play that causes me to be more susceptible to certain chemicals, metals and other substances in the environment that hurts me. And by the way, no one has ever argued those studies and the belief that autoimmune disease is caused by a genetic predisposition then triggered by an environmental influence is accepted and trusted. Even the chemicals in hair dyes can cause a flare up of disease activity in autoimmune disease. So, the idea that these children can't have been harmed by an environmental influence is sticking your head in the sand. It is true that some may have other causes, such as fragile X, but many may have other causes. It is unrealistic and downright wrong not to further studies into this area, in my opinion. Trust me, no one with autoimmune disease is claiming its a wonderful way of life simply because it is who we are. Something caused this and if it can be prevented, all the better. The same goes for any environmental trigger that may hurt a child. Col > > > > > > Kirby asked, " Can anyone tell me if > > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related > > >to the " spontaneous " mutations mentioned in > > >the study? " > > > > > >The editors and reviewers at the journal > > >Science, one of the most prestigious research > > >journals in the world, know the likelihood > > >that thimerosal was the cause of the > > >spontaneous mutations identified in > > >this study. They thought it didn't > > >warrant discussion. > > > > > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby > > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that > > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher > > >and would seem qualified to explain this issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 You don't Know it's genetics. If it is curable it is not . I t could be your body is reacting to enviornmental stressors. Some folks get relief fom herbal detox . I have a book on how someone cured themselves from MS . Another book on how they cured themselves from Alzheimers, always more to explore.. nora g Re: Mercury and DNA I don't think it is fair of you to clump all members of the EOH group as being of one mind. Yes, there are many people here who believe that Thimerosal caused great harm to their children. There is also plenty of evidence demonstrating the harm that thimerosal can cause. This board was created so people can discuss the evidence, question the evidence and evaluate it. I believe that Dr. King stated his position well in that, as a scientist, he does not discount anything that is possible. But, there are people here who disagree on different levels about what kind of research should be done. Personally, I think there should be genetic research but directed toward the genetic predisposition that some may have to environmental insults. As a person who lives with autoimmune disease, I know all too well that there is a genetic factor at play that causes me to be more susceptible to certain chemicals, metals and other substances in the environment that hurts me. And by the way, no one has ever argued those studies and the belief that autoimmune disease is caused by a genetic predisposition then triggered by an environmental influence is accepted and trusted. Even the chemicals in hair dyes can cause a flare up of disease activity in autoimmune disease.So, the idea that these children can't have been harmed by an environmental influence is sticking your head in the sand. It is true that some may have other causes, such as fragile X, but many may have other causes. It is unrealistic and downright wrong not to further studies into this area, in my opinion. Trust me, no one with autoimmune disease is claiming its a wonderful way of life simply because it is who we are. Something caused this and if it can be prevented, all the better. The same goes for any environmental trigger that may hurt a child.Col> > >> > > Kirby asked, "Can anyone tell me if > > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related > > >to the "spontaneous" mutations mentioned in > > >the study?"> > >> > >The editors and reviewers at the journal> > >Science, one of the most prestigious research > > >journals in the world, know the likelihood > > >that thimerosal was the cause of the > > >spontaneous mutations identified in > > >this study. They thought it didn't > > >warrant discussion.> > >> > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby > > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that > > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher > > >and would seem qualified to explain this issue.> > >> > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 I disagree with this: > > > > > > > > Kirby asked, " Can anyone tell me if > > > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related > > > >to the " spontaneous " mutations mentioned in > > > >the study? " > > > > > > > >The editors and reviewers at the journal > > > >Science, one of the most prestigious research > > > >journals in the world, know the likelihood > > > >that thimerosal was the cause of the > > > >spontaneous mutations identified in > > > >this study. They thought it didn't > > > >warrant discussion. > > > > > > > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby > > > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that > > > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher > > > >and would seem qualified to explain this issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 You may be right in that eventually, everyone may have a family history of this, but it isn't true now. Your last statement of them have a family history of " environmental " exposures rather than a history of auto-immune disease caused by their " genetics " is both right and wrong. People that have autoimmune diseases were introduced to some environmental exposure that triggered the disease. But, they also have a genetic predisposition to be affected in this way. Think of it this way...only a certain percentage of children developed pink's disease from teething powders. The other kids were ok. Only a certain number of children developed autism or another neurodevelopmental disorder and the others are ok. Only a certain percentage of the population develops an autoimmune disease and the things they are exposed to are often the same things others are exposed to as well. Hair dyes do not cause disease activity in all people and not even in all people with autoimmune diseases. Some are affected by the chemicals in hair dyes, others are not. Some are affected by the sun (photosensitivity) (which can be caused by toxins and heavy metals such as mercury) and others with the same diseases are not affected by the sun. It varies considerably expect that they all have one thing in common. They are susceptible to the affects of certain things that others are not. Col > > With 1 in every 450 kids being diagnosed juvenile diabetics. 1 in every > 150 autistic. God knows how many allergies, asthmas, etc. etc. Eventually > EVERY family in America will have a GENETIC HISTORY OF AUTO-IMMUNE DISEASES. > > I believe they have a family history of " environmental " exposures rather > than a history of auto-immune diseases caused by their " genetics " . > > > > ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 Col wrote: "Your last statement of them have a family history of "environmental" exposures rather than a history of autoimmune disease caused by their "genetics" is both right and wrong. People that have autoimmune diseases were introduced to some environmental exposure that triggered the disease. But, they also have a genetic predisposition to be affected in this way.Think of it this way...only a certain percentage of children developed pink's disease from teething powders. The other kids were ok. Only a certain number of children developed autism or another neurodevelopmental disorder and the others are ok" We agree that "genetics" plays a vital role in why certain "environmental toxins" cause autoimmune diseases in some children and not others. However, it seems to me children benefited from identifying the "environmental toxin" that caused "pink's disease", rather than wasting a lot of time, energy and scarce resources seeking to identify the "predisposition genes" that made some children more susceptible to the disease. As someone has said: "Genes are the gun, but, the enviroment is the trigger" that has caused the autism epidemic. Identifying the "trigger" appears far more urgent to me.AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 What part genetics, what part incidence associated with timing, dosage, condition of infant detoxification pathways (unrelated to genetics), fat levels, age, so many other issues. Re: Mercury and DNA You may be right in that eventually, everyone may have a family history of this, but it isn't true now. Your last statement of them have a family history of "environmental" exposures rather than a history of auto-immune disease caused by their "genetics" is both right and wrong. People that have autoimmune diseases were introduced to some environmental exposure that triggered the disease. But, they also have a genetic predisposition to be affected in this way.Think of it this way...only a certain percentage of children developed pink's disease from teething powders. The other kids were ok. Only a certain number of children developed autism or another neurodevelopmental disorder and the others are ok. Only a certain percentage of the population develops an autoimmune disease and the things they are exposed to are often the same things others are exposed to as well. Hair dyes do not cause disease activity in all people and not even in all people with autoimmune diseases. Some are affected by the chemicals in hair dyes, others are not. Some are affected by the sun (photosensitivity) (which can be caused by toxins and heavy metals such as mercury) and others with the same diseases are not affected by the sun. It varies considerably expect that they all have one thing in common.They are susceptible to the affects of certain things that others are not.Col>> With 1 in every 450 kids being diagnosed juvenile diabetics. 1 in every > 150 autistic. God knows how many allergies, asthmas, etc. etc. Eventually > EVERY family in America will have a GENETIC HISTORY OF AUTO-IMMUNE DISEASES. > > I believe they have a family history of "environmental" exposures rather > than a history of auto-immune diseases caused by their "genetics".> > > > ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 We may be spending too much time arguing about this genetics nonsense. Stop poisoning the kids. They'll be fine. Re: Mercury and DNA Col wrote: "Your last statement of them have a family history of "environmental" exposures rather than a history of autoimmune disease caused by their "genetics" is both right and wrong. People that have autoimmune diseases were introduced to some environmental exposure that triggered the disease. But, they also have a genetic predisposition to be affected in this way.Think of it this way...only a certain percentage of children developed pink's disease from teething powders. The other kids were ok. Only a certain number of children developed autism or another neurodevelopmental disorder and the others are ok" We agree that "genetics" plays a vital role in why certain "environmental toxins" cause autoimmune diseases in some children and not others. However, it seems to me children benefited from identifying the "environmental toxin" that caused "pink's disease", rather than wasting a lot of time, energy and scarce resources seeking to identify the "predisposition genes" that made some children more susceptible to the disease. As someone has said: "Genes are the gun, but, the enviroment is the trigger" that has caused the autism epidemic. Identifying the "trigger" appears far more urgent to me. AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 I totally agree with you on that. And in a perfect world, the people at the CDC, the IOM and AAP along with others would just remove the toxins and admit it. But they are steadfast in protecting their program. Pink disease didn't jeapordize their program or the financial status of the pharmaceutical industry the way this does. Unfortunately, they have stated many times over that unless someone can show, through science, how the toxin actually causes autism and other disorders, they won't even look at it. It is sad. They have all the data on the damage that can be done with Thimerosal and other forms of mercury, and they have the data on oxidative stress, low glutathione levels and so on....but they are still demanding an " explanation " as to why this can cause autism and other disorders. It is frustrating and ridiculous and maddening but they have put that wall in front of us (the entire autism community) and we have to figure a way to knock it down. I believe that we may be able to do that if we can show the susceptibility. But, on principle, I completely agree with you. They should remove thimerosal with or without this 'proof' that they seek simply on the fact that it is so highly toxic and is not a necessary component of the vaccine. I'm with you on that all the way. Col > > > " Your last statement of them have a family history of " environmental " > exposures > rather than a history of autoimmune disease caused by their " genetics " is > both right and > wrong. People that have autoimmune diseases were introduced to some > environmental > exposure that triggered the disease. But, they also have a genetic > predisposition to be > affected in this way. > > Think of it this way...only a certain percentage of children developed > pink's disease from > teething powders. The other kids were ok. Only a certain number of children > developed > autism or another neurodevelopmental disorder and the others are ok " > > We agree that " genetics " plays a vital role in why certain " environmental > toxins " cause autoimmune diseases in some children and not others. > > However, it seems to me children benefited from identifying the > " environmental toxin " that caused " pink's disease " , rather than wasting a lot of time, > energy and scarce resources seeking to identify the " predisposition genes " that > made some children more susceptible to the disease. > > As someone has said: " Genes are the gun, but, the enviroment is the > trigger " that has caused the autism epidemic. Identifying the " trigger " appears > far more urgent to me. > > > > ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 " analyzinggal " , First let me restate the reality that, for mercury, the cart (genetics) has been put before the horse (the causal trigger -- systemic or single-system poisoning by: mercury [>85%], the MMR vaccine [<10%] and other substances [<10%]). Our expressed genetic make up is only a factor in determining the magnitude of the harm done by the environmental poisons to which we are exposed. Absent any exposure to a given critical environmental poison, the incidence of the diseases caused by that environmental factor would be zero. However, your generalization: >But, they also have a genetic >predisposition to be affected in >this way, is fundamentally flawed becuase other factors, like active disease and/or the treatment for a preceived active disease may potentiate the poisoning by the environmental insult even though the person's genetics have NOT pre- disposed the person affected to be harmed by the level of exposure to a given environmental toxin. For example, a. Giving acetoaminophen for pain reduces glutathione thereby decreasing the person's inate mercury detoxification capability, and b. Administering certain antibiotics effectively inhibits the body's ability to excrete mercury. Moreover, your: >Think of it this way...only a certain >percentage of children developed pink's >disease from teething powders. The >other kids were ok, is equally simplistic. Just because they were not poisoned to the degree that they diagnosed with " pink disease, " (named after the bright grayish pink color in the palm of the hand, bottom of the foot, and, to a lesser extent, the cheeks of the face -- NOT " pink's disease " -- similar to the " strange disease " name given by the Japanese to the Minimata Bay residents poisoned by mercury) does NOT mean that they were " ok " -- only that the degree of mercury poisoning failed to produce clinical symptoms that were strong enough to elicit a diagnosis of " pink disease " or was so severe that the child DIED of mercury poisoning before any diagnosis of " pink disease " could be rendered. Yes, our genetic " susceptibility " is a major factor in determining the outcomes obsderved from a given " adverse " challenge to our life but it is only one major factor; one's health at the time of exposure is another major factor as is the medicines being administered at the time of the exposure to an " adverse " challenge. For example, if you are exposed to a disease that triggers your body's responding by causing you to have a high fever for several days, you are much more likely to survive when you have many pounds of excess fat than when you are malnourished or emaciated since your body is forced to burn up muscle when you have little or no fat to burn. [i know this to be true from personal experience when, after being vaccinated, I developed a high (>106 degrees F [41 degrees C]) for 3 days and lost 15 pounds (6.8 kg) of fat after being vaccinated with an unidentified vaccine shortly after beign drafted during the late 1960s.] Moreover, when it comes to a " susceptibility " why do you limit your concerns to chemicals and leave out diseases, including live-virus vaccines? Factually, as was pointed out, mercury is such an insidious and systemic poison that those who do not have an ASD disgnosis may have been harmed to a lesser degree but, to the extent they may be asthmatic (about 1 in 10 or higher today), have type 1 diabetes (about 1 in 450), etc., they certainly are not " ok. " Hopefully, you understand that, to a first approximation, the spectrum of harm for a given level of exposure that is fatal to some but leaves others virtually " unscathed " can be approximated as a pseudo-Gaussian distribution ranging from the unscathed through those with an ASD [about 1 %] to the dead [up to 0.4%; based on the excess infant mortality seen in the US (0.643 %) over Singapore (0.229 %)]. By some estimates, the cummulative level of recognized harm to young children from the use of mercury compounds in medicine and dentistry today affects at least 1 in every 3 children and, based on the 2004 " Autism A.L.A.R.M. " issued by our government and the healthcare establishment, more 1 in 6 children has a neurodevelopmental disorder or behavioral problem. Hopefully, this post has widened your under- standing of reality when it comes to mercury and you will do more study on the US " pink disease " epidemic and the Japanese " strange disease " that affected the people of Minimata Bay and some other nearby areas in Japan. Respectfully, Dr. King http://www.dr-king.com +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ At 21:40 3/24/07 -0000, analyzinggal wrote: > >You may be right in that eventually, >everyone may have a family history >of this, but it isn't true now. Your >last statement of them have a family >history of " environmental " exposures >rather than a history of auto-immune >disease caused by their " genetics " >is both right and wrong. People that >have autoimmune diseases were >introduced to some environmental >exposure that triggered the disease. >But, they also have a genetic >predisposition to be affected in >this way. > >Think of it this way...only a certain >percentage of children developed pink's >disease from teething powders. The >other kids were ok. Only a certain number >of children developed autism or another >neurodevelopmental disorder and the others >are ok. Only a certain percentage of the >population develops an autoimmune disease >and the things they are exposed to are >often the same things others are exposed >to as well. Hair dyes do not cause >disease activity in all people and not >even in all people with autoimmune >diseases. Some are affected by the >chemicals in hair dyes, others are not. >Some are affected by the sun (photosen- >sitivity) (which can be caused by toxins >and heavy metals such as mercury) >and others with the same diseases are >not affected by the sun. It varies >considerably expect that they all have >one thing in common. > >They are susceptible to the affects of >certain things that others are not. > >Col > > >> >> With 1 in every 450 kids being >> diagnosed juvenile diabetics. >> 1 in every 150 autistic. God >> knows how many allergies, asthmas, etc. etc. >> Eventually EVERY family in America will have >> a GENETIC HISTORY OF AUTO-IMMUNE DISEASES. >> >> I believe they have a family history of >> " environmental " exposures rather than a >> history of auto-immune diseases >> caused by their " genetics " . >> >> >><snip> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 I do think there may be some genetic pre disposition....BUT....some kids clearly got way more mercury than others.....some kids had rhogam MOM's with amalgams who ate seafood and got a flu shot and then were vaccinated.....clearly some kids were exposed to a lot more mercury than others. --- Rmoffi@... wrote: > Col wrote: > > > " Your last statement of them have a family history > of " environmental " > exposures > rather than a history of autoimmune disease caused > by their " genetics " is > both right and > wrong. People that have autoimmune diseases were > introduced to some > environmental > exposure that triggered the disease. But, they also > have a genetic > predisposition to be > affected in this way. > > Think of it this way...only a certain percentage of > children developed > pink's disease from > teething powders. The other kids were ok. Only a > certain number of children > developed > autism or another neurodevelopmental disorder and > the others are ok " > > We agree that " genetics " plays a vital role in why > certain " environmental > toxins " cause autoimmune diseases in some children > and not others. > > However, it seems to me children benefited from > identifying the > " environmental toxin " that caused " pink's disease " , > rather than wasting a lot of time, > energy and scarce resources seeking to identify the > " predisposition genes " that > made some children more susceptible to the disease. > > > As someone has said: " Genes are the gun, but, the > enviroment is the > trigger " that has caused the autism epidemic. > Identifying the " trigger " appears > far more urgent to me. > > > > ************************************** AOL now > offers free email to everyone. > Find out more about what's free from AOL at > http://www.aol.com. > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Q & A for great tips from Answers users. http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396546091 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 Dr. King, First, thank you for your very thorough response. You are right in that I was simply generalizing. I agree with you on every point with the exception of what you believe I know or don't understand about mercury or autoimmune disease. I fully agree that there are many things at play here in what determined separate children to develop autism and other neurodevelopmental disorders. I also fully agree that that does not exclude the rising cases of asthma, allergies and juvenile diabetes. But, in generalizing, I did not list everything at play. Considering there are also prenatal exposures at play from either amalgams and shots for Rh-negative women, which certainly plays a huge part in what has occurred to these kids as well, I concede completely that I was simplifying the matter. However, to be fair, I wasn't really diving into every kind of exposure that could/has caused what we are seeing today in our children. I was simply trying to explain the autoimmune diseases angle that I strongly feel should be explored. We have always known that a certain number of children have been affected by Rho-GAM and other shots, including vaccines, that transfered over to the fetus. This is particlarly true considering the numbers are disproportionate to the population of women who are Rh-negative. We know there is also a higher risk for those mothers with several silver fillings. We know that the vaccines played into this if the mother received it, as well as what the children received themselves. What I was stating was that I would like to see the area of autoimmunity in mothers and family members explored because of the link that is becoming more apparent as time goes on. I also did not mean to imply that all children who received thimerosal containing vaccines are perfectly fine. I am well aware of the amount of disabilities in our kids, along with the immune system dysfunction. For myself, I have a real fear of what we will soon begin to see in our 'unaffected' daughters as they get older and their own hormone levels begin to increase. Also, I didn't limit my thinking to chemicals alone. Quite the contrary, although I may have stated this in another post, I spoke about the Epstein Barr virus being directly linked to autoimmune diseases like lupus. This virus alone can cause many reactions in different people. Some get the disease and recover. Others seem to fight it off and on for years. Still others go on to develop chronic fatigue syndrome, which in my opinion is the beginnings of autoimmune dysfunction. But, again, some remain there while others go on to develop lupus. The same applies to other disease activity such as endometriosis, which like juvenile diabetes, was not recognized as autoimmune until recently. Neither was fibromyalgia and I am still waiting for them to make the announcement about Raynauds syndrome, chronic fatigue and irritable bowel syndrome which I think many believe to be autoimmune but, to my knowledge, have not yet been classified as such. But a virus alone can derail the immune system and I am in full agreement with you on that. In fact, one thing that I feel fairly strongly about, as well, is the Hib vaccine. In the earliest studies done by Verstraeten, he mentioned in the end notes of Phase 1 that he did find a link to the development of these neurodevelopmental disorders and the Hib shot, but did not find that correlation with the DTaP. Yet, this discovery was never pursued. I think that is another area that should have been explored more, either alone or in combination with the thimerosal and/or aluminum and other factors. Further, hormonal influences play a huge part in all of this as well. This in particular is something that I find interesting and your friend and colleague, Dr. Mark Geier, and I have had lengthy discussions about this particular fact. This is something that jumped out at me in direct correlation with autoimmune disease because of the hormonal influence. For instance, lupus is what I centered my own focus on over the years because this is what I am living with. But, it also serves me well to know about this particular disease because it is the 'umbrella' from which all autoimmune diseases sit under. In other words, if you have lupus, you can develop any of the others with the most common being hypothyroidism, MS, fibromyalgia, endometriosis and asthma is also common. In contrast, many of the other autoimmune diseases stand alone. This in many ways applies to autism as well. Autism is a mix of several disorders at once, while many of the others often stand alone. And yes, I am generalizing again. But, the correlation between the two is strong. For instance, in autoimmune disease, 9 out of 10 are women. In autism, 8 out of 10 are boys. In lupus, estrogen plays a significant role in disease activity. The women tend to have higher than normal levels of estrogen. Men with autoimmune disease have lower than normal levels of testosterone. In autism, as I am sure you know, the males have high levels of testosterone and the girls with autism also have higher than average levels of testosterone. Women tend to develop autoimmune disease during childbearing years when their hormonal levels are at their peak. In fact, it often sets in directly after giving birth when even more hormones are involved. Boys are born with high levels of hormones and may be more susceptible to damage by mercury because of this. Further, both have low glutathione levels, oxidative stress, etc. Further, women with lupus have a higher than average risk of having a son with a developmental disorder. Not a daughter...just a son. The reason for this has always been 'unknown'. However, if mercury or other toxins are a culprit, as I believe it is, then this may help to explain why their sons are so much more affected at birth than their daughters. The University of land has done studies on mercury and its affect in lupus and they found that it not only triggers the disease in mice, but it also causes a far worse course of the disease itself. Further, many symptoms (varying) of mercury poisoning is present in lupus such as photosensitivity, redness of the palms and feet as well as the cheeks, and the primary organs targeted are the kidneys, the CNS, the skin, heart and lungs. I could go on, but I am sure you are aware of where I am going with this. Ironically, the use of the flu shot has been one of controversy for years in lupus and other autoimmune diseases as it often causes a flare up of disease activity in some patients. The sickest I have ever been with my own disease was at a time when my doctors recommended I get the flu shot because of my illness over the course of 2 years. When I switched doctors, he told me to stop and I got progressively better over time. While studies in the past concerning amalgams and MS have proved to be inconclusive, those studies were mostly older and certainly none have explored the areas that we now know about one person's ability to remove toxins such as mercury from their body as compared to another's. Dr. Haley went into great detail about this particular factor and this is just another reason why I would like to see this area explored again. Since, in these studies, some patients did improve after having their fillings removed while others did not, a newer study looking at these other factors in combination with the removal of fillings may have very different results. I also should tell you that I do have a clear understanding of pink disease and what occurred in Minimata. I also know the affects that mercury has on people, even subtley which, interestingly enough, tends to affect boys more than girls in the young in the way of neurodevelopmental issues and it affects women more than men in the way of fatigue, muscle pain and weakness and so on that closely resembles the beginnings of autoimmune disease. Of course, I am again generalizing. I am also well aware that many things can play a part in both the disease and disorder. Trust me, I live with this. I have lupus, endometriosis (past), hypothyroid (also past...it only presented when I was in my worst flare up), fibromyalgia and asthma. I could go through my entire health history but that's not really neccesary...and I have had sources of mercury exposure, even beyond fillings and vaccines. I do appreciate your thorough post, and as you said, I was generalizing. But, in fairness, I simply did not write everything I know and understand about it. I haven't even done so here. But, I think that even though I have not stated every single fact about why this area should be explored, I do believe that there is certainly enough evidence, factors and correlations that warrant this area of study to be opened up. Colleen > >> > >> With 1 in every 450 kids being > >> diagnosed juvenile diabetics. > >> 1 in every 150 autistic. God > >> knows how many allergies, asthmas, etc. etc. > >> Eventually EVERY family in America will have > >> a GENETIC HISTORY OF AUTO-IMMUNE DISEASES. > >> > >> I believe they have a family history of > >> " environmental " exposures rather than a > >> history of auto-immune diseases > >> caused by their " genetics " . > >> > >> > >><snip> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 I was at Trader Joe’s tonight and I noticed they had a warning by the tuna fish. It just makes me sick. On 3/26/07 3:34 AM, " analyzinggal " <mcstrom@...> wrote: Hi , Absolutely. I agree completely. > > > > > > " Your last statement of them have a family history > > of " environmental " > > exposures > > rather than a history of autoimmune disease caused > > by their " genetics " is > > both right and > > wrong. People that have autoimmune diseases were > > introduced to some > > environmental > > exposure that triggered the disease. But, they also > > have a genetic > > predisposition to be > > affected in this way. > > > > Think of it this way...only a certain percentage of > > children developed > > pink's disease from > > teething powders. The other kids were ok. Only a > > certain number of children > > developed > > autism or another neurodevelopmental disorder and > > the others are ok " > > > > We agree that " genetics " plays a vital role in why > > certain " environmental > > toxins " cause autoimmune diseases in some children > > and not others. > > > > However, it seems to me children benefited from > > identifying the > > " environmental toxin " that caused " pink's disease " , > > rather than wasting a lot of time, > > energy and scarce resources seeking to identify the > > " predisposition genes " that > > made some children more susceptible to the disease. > > > > > > As someone has said: " Genes are the gun, but, the > > enviroment is the > > trigger " that has caused the autism epidemic. > > Identifying the " trigger " appears > > far more urgent to me. > > > > > > > > ************************************** AOL now > > offers free email to everyone. > > Find out more about what's free from AOL at > > http://www.aol.com. > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Need Mail bonding? > Go to the Q & A for great tips from Answers users. > http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396546091 <http://answers./dir/?link=list & amp;sid=396546091> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 Hi , Absolutely. I agree completely. > > > > > > " Your last statement of them have a family history > > of " environmental " > > exposures > > rather than a history of autoimmune disease caused > > by their " genetics " is > > both right and > > wrong. People that have autoimmune diseases were > > introduced to some > > environmental > > exposure that triggered the disease. But, they also > > have a genetic > > predisposition to be > > affected in this way. > > > > Think of it this way...only a certain percentage of > > children developed > > pink's disease from > > teething powders. The other kids were ok. Only a > > certain number of children > > developed > > autism or another neurodevelopmental disorder and > > the others are ok " > > > > We agree that " genetics " plays a vital role in why > > certain " environmental > > toxins " cause autoimmune diseases in some children > > and not others. > > > > However, it seems to me children benefited from > > identifying the > > " environmental toxin " that caused " pink's disease " , > > rather than wasting a lot of time, > > energy and scarce resources seeking to identify the > > " predisposition genes " that > > made some children more susceptible to the disease. > > > > > > As someone has said: " Genes are the gun, but, the > > enviroment is the > > trigger " that has caused the autism epidemic. > > Identifying the " trigger " appears > > far more urgent to me. > > > > > > > > ************************************** AOL now > > offers free email to everyone. > > Find out more about what's free from AOL at > > http://www.aol.com. > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ > Need Mail bonding? > Go to the Q & A for great tips from Answers users. > http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396546091 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Oh, and didn't most of our older relatives get vaccinated also, may this stuff hits one generation differently that the later generations.. cumulative...? ng Re: Mercury and DNA Dear Col,I agree there is a link. I have several autoimmune diseases, endometriosis( diagnosed at age 18), hypothyroidism, and premature ovarian failure( diagnosed at age 39). My mother has psoriasis, my paternal grandmother, brother, and son have hypothyroidism. My son has Asperger's, adhd, asthma, moderate allergies, hypothyroidism. On his father's side, there are several family members with hypothyroidism and psoriasis. It has become my opinion that as we slowly poison each generation, the toxic effects are accumulating.Look foward to seeing your research...Houston TX> > > > >> > > > > Kirby asked, "Can anyone tell me if > > > > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related > > > > >to the "spontaneous" mutations mentioned in > > > > >the study?"> > > > >> > > > >The editors and reviewers at the journal> > > > >Science, one of the most prestigious research > > > > >journals in the world, know the likelihood > > > > >that thimerosal was the cause of the > > > > >spontaneous mutations identified in > > > > >this study. They thought it didn't > > > > >warrant discussion.> > > > >> > > > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby > > > > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that > > > > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher > > > > >and would seem qualified to explain this issue.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I'd rather say genes are the Map not the Territory.....ng Re: Mercury and DNA Col wrote: "Your last statement of them have a family history of "environmental" exposures rather than a history of autoimmune disease caused by their "genetics" is both right and wrong. People that have autoimmune diseases were introduced to some environmental exposure that triggered the disease. But, they also have a genetic predisposition to be affected in this way.Think of it this way...only a certain percentage of children developed pink's disease from teething powders. The other kids were ok. Only a certain number of children developed autism or another neurodevelopmental disorder and the others are ok" We agree that "genetics" plays a vital role in why certain "environmental toxins" cause autoimmune diseases in some children and not others. However, it seems to me children benefited from identifying the "environmental toxin" that caused "pink's disease", rather than wasting a lot of time, energy and scarce resources seeking to identify the "predisposition genes" that made some children more susceptible to the disease. As someone has said: "Genes are the gun, but, the enviroment is the trigger" that has caused the autism epidemic. Identifying the "trigger" appears far more urgent to me. AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Hi Nora, I think you are right about this also. For instance, in my own family, my older relatives were exposed to far less toxins than my generation. My aunt has hypothyroid disease and my father absolutely shows sings of ADD. But for my generation, my brother and I were exposed to several sources of mercury through medications that I found through the ATSDR report. Back then they didn't have a name for ADHD, so they diagnosed him with " a hyperactvity disorder " . He was off the map hyper as he was even unable to sit through a half hour program on TV. He couldn't even make it 5 minutes. He also, today, has some features of Asperger's but certainly not enough to be diagnosed. Nor was he anything like my son was. He didn't have speech or language issues or coordination problems. In fact, he was quite agile and off the map intelligent. He was actually moved from his school to one for 'genius' children. I, on the other hand, was more physically ill than him in other ways...stomach problems, aches and pains, etc. eventually developing an autoimmune disease. My sisters, who were my half sisters and not from my father, had nothing wrong and still don't. Then come to this generation who were exposed to an incredible amount of mercury so early. My son has asperger's which was far different as a toddler, resembling more of classic autism on many levels, and my daughter is in the gifted program but her attention span is scattered. My brother's son, 2 years old, is healthy as can be and did not get the Thimerosal. And this, of course, is just one route of exposure to one toxin. I absolutely think that if my brother had been exposed to the amounts my kids were and at the age they were exposed, he would have been autistic. Col > > > > > > > > > > > > Kirby asked, " Can anyone tell me if > > > > > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related > > > > > >to the " spontaneous " mutations mentioned in > > > > > >the study? " > > > > > > > > > > > >The editors and reviewers at the journal > > > > > >Science, one of the most prestigious research > > > > > >journals in the world, know the likelihood > > > > > >that thimerosal was the cause of the > > > > > >spontaneous mutations identified in > > > > > >this study. They thought it didn't > > > > > >warrant discussion. > > > > > > > > > > > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby > > > > > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that > > > > > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher > > > > > >and would seem qualified to explain this issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Yes, from the perspective of the facts we have gathered at this time, we can look back and see a lot of skips and bumps in affect in the folks around us. I for one am battling swapping letters and numbers still. I have had my amalgams out and done some chelation, but not enough evidently... I need to get back to the protocol, and hopefully improve...even at this late date ( I'm a grandma!) . Spell check is a wonderful thing..when will we get MATH check? Nora Re: Mercury and DNA Hi Nora,I think you are right about this also. For instance, in my own family, my older relatives were exposed to far less toxins than my generation. My aunt has hypothyroid disease and my father absolutely shows sings of ADD. But for my generation, my brother and I were exposed to several sources of mercury through medications that I found through the ATSDR report. Back then they didn't have a name for ADHD, so they diagnosed him with "a hyperactvity disorder". He was off the map hyper as he was even unable to sit through a half hour program on TV. He couldn't even make it 5 minutes.He also, today, has some features of Asperger's but certainly not enough to be diagnosed. Nor was he anything like my son was. He didn't have speech or language issues or coordination problems. In fact, he was quite agile and off the map intelligent. He was actually moved from his school to one for 'genius' children. I, on the other hand, was more physically ill than him in other ways...stomach problems, aches and pains, etc. eventually developing an autoimmune disease. My sisters, who were my half sisters and not from my father, had nothing wrong and still don't.Then come to this generation who were exposed to an incredible amount of mercury so early. My son has asperger's which was far different as a toddler, resembling more of classic autism on many levels, and my daughter is in the gifted program but her attention span is scattered.My brother's son, 2 years old, is healthy as can be and did not get the Thimerosal.And this, of course, is just one route of exposure to one toxin. I absolutely think that if my brother had been exposed to the amounts my kids were and at the age they were exposed, he would have been autistic. Col> > > > > >> > > > > > Kirby asked, "Can anyone tell me if > > > > > >this [thimerosal exposure] could be related > > > > > >to the "spontaneous" mutations mentioned in > > > > > >the study?"> > > > > >> > > > > >The editors and reviewers at the journal> > > > > >Science, one of the most prestigious research > > > > > >journals in the world, know the likelihood > > > > > >that thimerosal was the cause of the > > > > > >spontaneous mutations identified in > > > > > >this study. They thought it didn't > > > > > >warrant discussion.> > > > > >> > > > > >Maybe Dr. Hooker could explain to Kirby > > > > > >and to Dr. King just how totally unlikely that > > > > > >scenario is. Dr. Hooker is a genomic researcher > > > > > >and would seem qualified to explain this issue.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.