Request for information

[Guest guest]

Sorry about the delay in replying. Thanks Jeff for the correct

link. This is unfortunately the case that my friend was contacted

about and the urgency is because a manslaughter charge is being

brought against the stepmom and the lawyers were given seven days to

find hard evidence of other self-inflicted head banging deaths to

children. I sent my request to the SCHAFER AUTISM REPORT, but I

didn't see it published. I was hoping to reach a wider audience.

Thanks for the replys!

Dawn

> Here is the correct link--

> http://neuro-mancer.mgh.harvard.edu/ubb/Forum260/HTML/008676.html

>

> Peacefully,

> Jeff Sell

> Autism Society of America - 1st Vice Chair

> Chairman - ASA Government Relations Committee

> www.autism-society.org

> JZSell@J...

> www.JZSLAW.com

> 832-731-3145 (cell)

>

> Request for Information

>

>

> I'm trying to help my friend obtain information for a court

case that

> has gone very wrong. If you are aware of any child's death

that has

> occurred due to self-inflicted " head banging " , please e-mail my

> friend at monicac2@m... as quickly as possible. It does

> not matter if the child had autism, the age should be 12 or

under,

> and the death cannot be abuse caused by another, it must be

caused by

> the child's own head banging. I'm sorry if this sounds off-the-

wall,

> but it is real and my friend has been asked to help because of

her

> long fights with the legal systems to bring a better life to

her 26

> year old son who has autism. If you have any information at

all,

> please contact . (The lawyers were given only seven days

to

> obtain more information, so turnaround is urgent if you have

info.)

>

> Thank you!

>

> Dawn Jennings

> town, TX

> (Mom to , age 16, PDD-NOS)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry about the delay in replying. Thanks Jeff for the correct

link. This is unfortunately the case that my friend was contacted

about and the urgency is because a manslaughter charge is being

brought against the stepmom and the lawyers were given seven days to

find hard evidence of other self-inflicted head banging deaths to

children. I sent my request to the SCHAFER AUTISM REPORT, but I

didn't see it published. I was hoping to reach a wider audience.

Thanks for the replys!

Dawn

> Here is the correct link--

> http://neuro-mancer.mgh.harvard.edu/ubb/Forum260/HTML/008676.html

>

> Peacefully,

> Jeff Sell

> Autism Society of America - 1st Vice Chair

> Chairman - ASA Government Relations Committee

> www.autism-society.org

> JZSell@J...

> www.JZSLAW.com

> 832-731-3145 (cell)

>

> Request for Information

>

>

> I'm trying to help my friend obtain information for a court

case that

> has gone very wrong. If you are aware of any child's death

that has

> occurred due to self-inflicted " head banging " , please e-mail my

> friend at monicac2@m... as quickly as possible. It does

> not matter if the child had autism, the age should be 12 or

under,

> and the death cannot be abuse caused by another, it must be

caused by

> the child's own head banging. I'm sorry if this sounds off-the-

wall,

> but it is real and my friend has been asked to help because of

her

> long fights with the legal systems to bring a better life to

her 26

> year old son who has autism. If you have any information at

all,

> please contact . (The lawyers were given only seven days

to

> obtain more information, so turnaround is urgent if you have

info.)

>

> Thank you!

>

> Dawn Jennings

> town, TX

> (Mom to , age 16, PDD-NOS)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi all -

I'm that guy who annoyed everyone a few weeks ago by questioning the

whole autism/vaccine connection. Sorry about that. Didn't realize

contrary opinions were met with hostility here. I understand better

now - that round of posts was my first efforts at joining an online

community. I didn't factor in that the core people who populate this

group have every right to excoriate contrarians - this is " your " group

(Those who have spent so many hours/years exchanging info), not mine,

and I apologize for ruffling feathers.

Getting past all that, does anyone know how to procure individual

vaccines? Our Doctor said he would be happy to follow our lead on

whatever vax schedule we decide on, but claims he is limited in his

ability to procure anything other than the triple-jabs.

Also, do newborns receive Hep-B the day of birth?

Steve

[Guest guest]

Steve,

If you're looking to separate the MMR, I believe your doctor can get

the individual vaccines from -

Hopewell Pharmacy

Hopewell, NJ

www.hopewellrx.com

(800) 792-6670

>

> Getting past all that, does anyone know how to procure individual

> vaccines? Our Doctor said he would be happy to follow our lead on

> whatever vax schedule we decide on, but claims he is limited in

his ability to procure anything other than the triple-jabs.

> Also, do newborns receive Hep-B the day of birth?

>

> Steve

>

[Guest guest]

Steve, I refused any shots on my children the day they were born but it is a practice in hospitals to do so. Your MD can get individual vaccines. Don't let him tell you NO.ianpsmom <ianpsmom@...> wrote: Steve,If you're looking to separate the MMR, I believe your doctor can get the individual vaccines from -Hopewell PharmacyHopewell, NJwww.hopewellrx.com(800) 792-6670>> Getting past all that, does anyone know how to procure individual > vaccines? Our Doctor said he would be happy to follow our lead on > whatever vax schedule we decide on, but claims he is limited in his ability to procure anything other than the triple-jabs.> Also, do newborns receive Hep-B the day of birth? > > Steve>

Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited.

[Guest guest]

>Also, do newborns receive Hep-B the day of birth? <

Even in some cases when the parents say emphatically NO! It is common practice for newborns to receive their first shot of the Hep B series in the first 12 hours after birth. Does it not anger you a little that doctors hands are tied as to safer (though I personally believe no vaccine is ever safe) vaccine schedules? Do you see who is calling all the shots and controlling the doctor and parents? Do you see who benefits, as in profit (drug companies) and control (government), are you starting to see more clearly?

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info, . While I appreciate your efforts to

convince me that there is a conspiracy to harm our children, and I

understand that you are well-intentioned in doing so, I still can't

swallow the concept that some " evil empire " is deliberately setting out

to damage kids with mercury poisoning.

Look, I know my opinion about this is not embraced here, but I watch

the info on this group because I do have a baby on the way and want to

make good decisions. I agree that there is a possibility - an as yet

unproven possibility - that vaccines or mercury are related to the

onset of autism in some children. And I am 100% convinced that some

environmental factor contributes to the onset of autism. Otherwise we

should see 100% prevalence rates in identical twins with ASD. I do not

know - and I believe nobody knows, despite what they believe to be the

truth - what the environmental agents are. The range of potential

factors is so tremendous that I do not expect this puzzle to be solved

for a long, long time. And I acknowledge that this debate will go on

until that determination is made once and for all. So I feel that I do

see the situation clearly, , just from a different perspective

than yours. And I do respect your position. And I would like the

opportunity to continue to pose questions that I feel members of this

list can help provide answers for - such as where to buy individually

packaged vaccines or whether Hep-B is administered the day of birth.

I also would like to add a comment about Neurodiversity. I am not

a " member " of Neurodiversity nor a spokesman for their interests. I

do, however, have great admiration for their position on the overall

issue of Autism, and I am under the impression that that position is

cast in a more negative light here than it needs to be. I have heard

much mention here of the ND crowd being anti-treatment, but I have not

found this to be the case. There are numerous treatments that many

individuals who have interest in ND would recommend, including

behavioral modification (ABA among other things), SLT, OT, various

supplements, etc. I have also heard some of them mention that

chelation is an appropriate treatment - for heavy metal poisoning.

Their skepticism seems to lie in the claim that it can cure autism. I

think anyone would have to agree that there is enough room for doubt in

the debate that this is not an utterly ludicrous statement for someone

to make. There are situations where chelation has not affected

autistic behavior in individuals, and there are situations where it

has. There is at least one case where an individual has lost their

life due to chelation, and there are huge amounts of cases where no

harm has been done. What does this tell us? Not much. And while this

side of the debate continually claims that the vaccines = autism theory

is a result of profit-seeking (by pharma), the other side continually

claims that the chelation = cure theory is a result of profit-seeking

(by practitioners). Opposing but similar viewpoints to be sure.

This past weekend, my wife and I had one of my sons' classmates'

families over for the afternoon - we all had a wonderful time. My wife

and I have strictly used behavioral approaches with our son, and the

visiting parents have used a combination of behavioral (RDI) and bio-

medical approaches (B-12, chelation, IVIG, etc.) The bottom line is:

both of our sons have seen some progress in their ASD-related issues.

Both are at approximately the same level of functioning (moderate, if I

had to label it), although my son has maybe progressed a bit more

because the other boy has some ADHD-type tendencies which accentuate

some of the ASD stuff. We had a very nice, very productive discussion

of how we arrived at our treatment decisions, what sources of

information were used, whether there really is an " epidemic " , what the

future holds for our children, what role vaccines play, etc. I think

we both came away feeling like we had more complete information to base

future decisions on, and were more than happy to acknowledge that there

are diverse viewpoints on these issues.

I guess what I am saying is that I would love to see more civil

discussion and less finger-pointing, attacking, and insulting when it

comes to this debate. No matter which side we align with, or if we

walk down the middle of the road, we are all just trying to do the best

for those in our society who are on the autism spectrum.

Steve

>

> >Also, do newborns receive Hep-B the day of birth? <

>

> Even in some cases when the parents say emphatically NO! It is

common practice for newborns to receive their first shot of the Hep B

series in the first 12 hours after birth. Does it not anger you a

little that doctors hands are tied as to safer (though I personally

believe no vaccine is ever safe) vaccine schedules? Do you see who is

calling all the shots and controlling the doctor and parents? Do you

see who benefits, as in profit (drug companies) and control

(government), are you starting to see more clearly?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

As a start, just look at the unvaccinated children and see what the prevalence of autism is in the unvaccinated.

Compare that to those who are vaccinated.

Thereafter, we can all talk.

Re:Request for information

Thanks for the info, . While I appreciate your efforts to convince me that there is a conspiracy to harm our children, and I understand that you are well-intentioned in doing so, I still can't swallow the concept that some "evil empire" is deliberately setting out to damage kids with mercury poisoning.Look, I know my opinion about this is not embraced here, but I watch the info on this group because I do have a baby on the way and want to make good decisions. I agree that there is a possibility - an as yet unproven possibility - that vaccines or mercury are related to the onset of autism in some children. And I am 100% convinced that some environmental factor contributes to the onset of autism. Otherwise we should see 100% prevalence rates in identical twins with ASD. I do not know - and I believe nobody knows, despite what they believe to be the truth - what the environmental agents are. The range of potential factors is so tremendous that I do not expect this puzzle to be solved for a long, long time. And I acknowledge that this debate will go on until that determination is made once and for all. So I feel that I do see the situation clearly, , just from a different perspective than yours. And I do respect your position. And I would like the opportunity to continue to pose questions that I feel members of this list can help provide answers for - such as where to buy individually packaged vaccines or whether Hep-B is administered the day of birth.I also would like to add a comment about Neurodiversity. I am not a "member" of Neurodiversity nor a spokesman for their interests. I do, however, have great admiration for their position on the overall issue of Autism, and I am under the impression that that position is cast in a more negative light here than it needs to be. I have heard much mention here of the ND crowd being anti-treatment, but I have not found this to be the case. There are numerous treatments that many individuals who have interest in ND would recommend, including behavioral modification (ABA among other things), SLT, OT, various supplements, etc. I have also heard some of them mention that chelation is an appropriate treatment - for heavy metal poisoning. Their skepticism seems to lie in the claim that it can cure autism. I think anyone would have to agree that there is enough room for doubt in the debate that this is not an utterly ludicrous statement for someone to make. There are situations where chelation has not affected autistic behavior in individuals, and there are situations where it has. There is at least one case where an individual has lost their life due to chelation, and there are huge amounts of cases where no harm has been done. What does this tell us? Not much. And while this side of the debate continually claims that the vaccines = autism theory is a result of profit-seeking (by pharma), the other side continually claims that the chelation = cure theory is a result of profit-seeking (by practitioners). Opposing but similar viewpoints to be sure.This past weekend, my wife and I had one of my sons' classmates' families over for the afternoon - we all had a wonderful time. My wife and I have strictly used behavioral approaches with our son, and the visiting parents have used a combination of behavioral (RDI) and bio-medical approaches (B-12, chelation, IVIG, etc.) The bottom line is: both of our sons have seen some progress in their ASD-related issues. Both are at approximately the same level of functioning (moderate, if I had to label it), although my son has maybe progressed a bit more because the other boy has some ADHD-type tendencies which accentuate some of the ASD stuff. We had a very nice, very productive discussion of how we arrived at our treatment decisions, what sources of information were used, whether there really is an "epidemic", what the future holds for our children, what role vaccines play, etc. I think we both came away feeling like we had more complete information to base future decisions on, and were more than happy to acknowledge that there are diverse viewpoints on these issues.I guess what I am saying is that I would love to see more civil discussion and less finger-pointing, attacking, and insulting when it comes to this debate. No matter which side we align with, or if we walk down the middle of the road, we are all just trying to do the best for those in our society who are on the autism spectrum.Steve>> >Also, do newborns receive Hep-B the day of birth? <> > Even in some cases when the parents say emphatically NO! It is common practice for newborns to receive their first shot of the Hep B series in the first 12 hours after birth. Does it not anger you a little that doctors hands are tied as to safer (though I personally believe no vaccine is ever safe) vaccine schedules? Do you see who is calling all the shots and controlling the doctor and parents? Do you see who benefits, as in profit (drug companies) and control (government), are you starting to see more clearly?> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve,

I'm glad you are still around . I have learned a lot from this group and I hope you aren't discouraged from checking us out from time to time for some very useful information.

A Dr. Hicks whom has a child with Autism, has a great vaccine schedule that is much safer than the CDCs. He recommends No Hepatitis B, no Varicella, no flu shots, and no Pneumococcal/Prevnar at all. You can find this schedule on his website: http://www.pathwaysmed.com/menu/education/education300.html. That will take you directly to his vaccine schedule. You can go to his main page from there. He carries the individual vaccines. They are one dose vaccines and I want to say with no preservatives, but you would have to double check. My point is, you can call his office and ask them where they order their vaccines from.

We had to sign a waiver for them not to give our newborn son, who is now 9 mos. old, Heb B nor Vitamin K shots. My husband stayed with our son the entire time he was taken from our room to make sure someone didn't "forget." I've heard from other parents who didn't want their child to get the Heb B and their newborn was given the vaccine because of some "mistake." This happens when the parent is not around. We circumcised our son a week later when the body naturally produces it's ability to clot. He did just fine .

Steve, I hope this helps.

Vivian

Request for information

Hi all - I'm that guy who annoyed everyone a few weeks ago by questioning the whole autism/vaccine connection. Sorry about that. Didn't realize contrary opinions were met with hostility here. I understand better now - that round of posts was my first efforts at joining an online community. I didn't factor in that the core people who populate this group have every right to excoriate contrarians - this is "your" group (Those who have spent so many hours/years exchanging info), not mine, and I apologize for ruffling feathers.Getting past all that, does anyone know how to procure individual vaccines? Our Doctor said he would be happy to follow our lead on whatever vax schedule we decide on, but claims he is limited in his ability to procure anything other than the triple-jabs.Also, do newborns receive Hep-B the day of birth? Steve

[Guest guest]

My godchilds son is unvaccinated has aspergers. My godchild was born in New Jersey his wife in northern Ca. They now live in Oregon where he was born The most polluted areas in the country. Need I say more. JaneH <stratpat@...> wrote: As a start, just look at the unvaccinated children and see what the prevalence of autism is in the unvaccinated. Compare that to those who are vaccinated. Thereafter, we can all talk. Re:Request for information Thanks for the info, . While I appreciate

your efforts to convince me that there is a conspiracy to harm our children, and I understand that you are well-intentioned in doing so, I still can't swallow the concept that some "evil empire" is deliberately setting out to damage kids with mercury poisoning.Look, I know my opinion about this is not embraced here, but I watch the info on this group because I do have a baby on the way and want to make good decisions. I agree that there is a possibility - an as yet unproven possibility - that vaccines or mercury are related to the onset of autism in some children. And I am 100% convinced that some environmental factor contributes to the onset of autism. Otherwise we should see 100% prevalence rates in identical twins with ASD. I do not know - and I believe nobody knows, despite what they believe to be the truth - what the environmental agents are. The range of potential factors is so tremendous that I do not expect

this puzzle to be solved for a long, long time. And I acknowledge that this debate will go on until that determination is made once and for all. So I feel that I do see the situation clearly, , just from a different perspective than yours. And I do respect your position. And I would like the opportunity to continue to pose questions that I feel members of this list can help provide answers for - such as where to buy individually packaged vaccines or whether Hep-B is administered the day of birth.I also would like to add a comment about Neurodiversity. I am not a "member" of Neurodiversity nor a spokesman for their interests. I do, however, have great admiration for their position on the overall issue of Autism, and I am under the impression that that position is cast in a more negative light here than it needs to be. I have heard much mention here of the ND crowd being anti-treatment, but I have not found

this to be the case. There are numerous treatments that many individuals who have interest in ND would recommend, including behavioral modification (ABA among other things), SLT, OT, various supplements, etc. I have also heard some of them mention that chelation is an appropriate treatment - for heavy metal poisoning. Their skepticism seems to lie in the claim that it can cure autism. I think anyone would have to agree that there is enough room for doubt in the debate that this is not an utterly ludicrous statement for someone to make. There are situations where chelation has not affected autistic behavior in individuals, and there are situations where it has. There is at least one case where an individual has lost their life due to chelation, and there are huge amounts of cases where no harm has been done. What does this tell us? Not much. And while this side of the debate continually claims that the vaccines = autism

theory is a result of profit-seeking (by pharma), the other side continually claims that the chelation = cure theory is a result of profit-seeking (by practitioners). Opposing but similar viewpoints to be sure.This past weekend, my wife and I had one of my sons' classmates' families over for the afternoon - we all had a wonderful time. My wife and I have strictly used behavioral approaches with our son, and the visiting parents have used a combination of behavioral (RDI) and bio-medical approaches (B-12, chelation, IVIG, etc.) The bottom line is: both of our sons have seen some progress in their ASD-related issues. Both are at approximately the same level of functioning (moderate, if I had to label it), although my son has maybe progressed a bit more because the other boy has some ADHD-type tendencies which accentuate some of the ASD stuff. We had a very nice, very productive discussion of how we arrived at

our treatment decisions, what sources of information were used, whether there really is an "epidemic", what the future holds for our children, what role vaccines play, etc. I think we both came away feeling like we had more complete information to base future decisions on, and were more than happy to acknowledge that there are diverse viewpoints on these issues.I guess what I am saying is that I would love to see more civil discussion and less finger-pointing, attacking, and insulting when it comes to this debate. No matter which side we align with, or if we walk down the middle of the road, we are all just trying to do the best for those in our society who are on the autism spectrum.Steve>> >Also, do newborns receive Hep-B the day of birth? <> > Even

in some cases when the parents say emphatically NO! It is common practice for newborns to receive their first shot of the Hep B series in the first 12 hours after birth. Does it not anger you a little that doctors hands are tied as to safer (though I personally believe no vaccine is ever safe) vaccine schedules? Do you see who is calling all the shots and controlling the doctor and parents? Do you see who benefits, as in profit (drug companies) and control (government), are you starting to see more clearly?> > >

[Guest guest]

There will be children who are autistic and unvaccinated. There actually is/are genetic forms of autism- fragile X, some other rare forms of actual genetic autism caused by mutations, deletions in genetic material which result in abnormalities in proteins and in differentiation processes, etc.

There will be environmentally induced autism in children which is caused by toxins in the environment.

Do real epidemiology on the vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children. Look at the numbers.

The numbers will not tell you it is or isn't the mercury.

They numbers will tell you whether it is or isn't the vaccines.

If the vaccines are the culprit, then you have to look carefully at the vaccines, their components and especially the vaccine protocol.

Re:Request for information

Thanks for the info, . While I appreciate your efforts to convince me that there is a conspiracy to harm our children, and I understand that you are well-intentioned in doing so, I still can't swallow the concept that some "evil empire" is deliberately setting out to damage kids with mercury poisoning.Look, I know my opinion about this is not embraced here, but I watch the info on this group because I do have a baby on the way and want to make good decisions. I agree that there is a possibility - an as yet unproven possibility - that vaccines or mercury are related to the onset of autism in some children. And I am 100% convinced that some environmental factor contributes to the onset of autism. Otherwise we should see 100% prevalence rates in identical twins with ASD. I do not know - and I believe nobody knows, despite what they believe to be the truth - what the environmental agents are. The range of potential factors is so tremendous that I do not expect this puzzle to be solved for a long, long time. And I acknowledge that this debate will go on until that determination is made once and for all. So I feel that I do see the situation clearly, , just from a different perspective than yours. And I do respect your position. And I would like the opportunity to continue to pose questions that I feel members of this list can help provide answers for - such as where to buy individually packaged vaccines or whether Hep-B is administered the day of birth.I also would like to add a comment about Neurodiversity. I am not a "member" of Neurodiversity nor a spokesman for their interests. I do, however, have great admiration for their position on the overall issue of Autism, and I am under the impression that that position is cast in a more negative light here than it needs to be. I have heard much mention here of the ND crowd being anti-treatment, but I have not found this to be the case. There are numerous treatments that many individuals who have interest in ND would recommend, including behavioral modification (ABA among other things), SLT, OT, various supplements, etc. I have also heard some of them mention that chelation is an appropriate treatment - for heavy metal poisoning. Their skepticism seems to lie in the claim that it can cure autism. I think anyone would have to agree that there is enough room for doubt in the debate that this is not an utterly ludicrous statement for someone to make. There are situations where chelation has not affected autistic behavior in individuals, and there are situations where it has. There is at least one case where an individual has lost their life due to chelation, and there are huge amounts of cases where no harm has been done. What does this tell us? Not much. And while this side of the debate continually claims that the vaccines = autism theory is a result of profit-seeking (by pharma), the other side continually claims that the chelation = cure theory is a result of profit-seeking (by practitioners). Opposing but similar viewpoints to be sure.This past weekend, my wife and I had one of my sons' classmates' families over for the afternoon - we all had a wonderful time. My wife and I have strictly used behavioral approaches with our son, and the visiting parents have used a combination of behavioral (RDI) and bio-medical approaches (B-12, chelation, IVIG, etc.) The bottom line is: both of our sons have seen some progress in their ASD-related issues. Both are at approximately the same level of functioning (moderate, if I had to label it), although my son has maybe progressed a bit more because the other boy has some ADHD-type tendencies which accentuate some of the ASD stuff. We had a very nice, very productive discussion of how we arrived at our treatment decisions, what sources of information were used, whether there really is an "epidemic", what the future holds for our children, what role vaccines play, etc. I think we both came away feeling like we had more complete information to base future decisions on, and were more than happy to acknowledge that there are diverse viewpoints on these issues.I guess what I am saying is that I would love to see more civil discussion and less finger-pointing, attacking, and insulting when it comes to this debate. No matter which side we align with, or if we walk down the middle of the road, we are all just trying to do the best for those in our society who are on the autism spectrum.Steve>> >Also, do newborns receive Hep-B the day of birth? <> > Even in some cases when the parents say emphatically NO! It is common practice for newborns to receive their first shot of the Hep B series in the first 12 hours after birth. Does it not anger you a little that doctors hands are tied as to safer (though I personally believe no vaccine is ever safe) vaccine schedules? Do you see who is calling all the shots and controlling the doctor and parents? Do you see who benefits, as in profit (drug companies) and control (government), are you starting to see more clearly?> > >

[Guest guest]

Steve,

Very few conversations on this list are dedictated to nuero-

diversity. Conversely, most of their discussions, at least the

websites I have seen involve bashing, making light, ridiculing,

insulting (pick your own negative word) people who choose to focus

on biomedical treatments.They do lots of name calling. Funny, I

haven't figured out why they are so damn angry and hostile since

they think having kids with autism is GREAT! They belittle people

who want answers to what happened to our children. We're demanding

research sanctioned by the government to get to the bottom of

things. That's why we spend a good deal of time here talking about

legislation and politics and such.

The treatments you mentioned are therapies as far as I'm concerend

OT, speech, ABA etc... Most everybody does those no matter where you

fall in this debate. Good for them if they give their kids vitamins.

We all can benefit from supplements due to the lack of nutrients in

our food.

Anyways, you seem a little too pre-occupied to me with " us " and

the " nuero-diverse crowd " . No need for lengthy explanations about

your position on things or attempting to find common ground between

the two groups. I think people here have given you adequate

information to decide what you want to do about vaccinations. Do

with it as you please.

Good luck,

> I also would like to add a comment about Neurodiversity. I am not

> a " member " of Neurodiversity nor a spokesman for their interests.

I

> do, however, have great admiration for their position on the

overall

> issue of Autism, and I am under the impression that that position

is

> cast in a more negative light here than it needs to be. I have

heard

> much mention here of the ND crowd being anti-treatment, but I have

not

> found this to be the case. There are numerous treatments that

many

> individuals who have interest in ND would recommend, including

> behavioral modification (ABA among other things), SLT, OT, various

> supplements, etc. I have also heard some of them mention that

> chelation is an appropriate treatment - for heavy metal

poisoning.

> Their skepticism seems to lie in the claim that it can cure

autism. I

> think anyone would have to agree that there is enough room for

doubt in

> the debate that this is not an utterly ludicrous statement for

someone

> to make. There are situations where chelation has not affected

> autistic behavior in individuals, and there are situations where

it

> has. There is at least one case where an individual has lost

their

> life due to chelation, and there are huge amounts of cases where

no

> harm has been done. What does this tell us? Not much. And while

this

> side of the debate continually claims that the vaccines = autism

theory

> is a result of profit-seeking (by pharma), the other side

continually

> claims that the chelation = cure theory is a result of profit-

seeking

> (by practitioners). Opposing but similar viewpoints to be sure.

[Guest guest]

To the uninitiated, this site may be novel, perhaps even confusing. Even the mercury/'vaccine autism theories discussed on this site may be initially a little troubling, given the mainstream bombardment, other issues. They are for many people without a honed critical thought process. That is not an indictment, that is a simple observation.

After several weeks of research and insight, continued skepticism suggests a lack of common sense or perhaps other motivations. While the evidence may not be conclusive for you (it is for many of us), certainly at least your antenna should be way up if you care for your child.

If not, then history is not your teacher, and perhaps you simply have difficulty understanding simple motivations.

You have a right to your opinion. We strongly believe it is wrong.

But more than simply wrong, that doubt and opinion errs on the side of wrongheadedness, because even if this entire group is wrong, attempts to bolster the immunity and general health of your child are things that should be done out of an abundance of caution and love for your child.

Those biomedical treatments you feel are not worth it, simply won't use. That is appropriate.

But don't reject attempts to treat what is inherently a biomedical condition for it places your child at a severe disadvantage.

We trust you will do well for your child. Err on the side of caution for the little ones.

Re:Request for information

Steve,Very few conversations on this list are dedictated to nuero-diversity. Conversely, most of their discussions, at least the websites I have seen involve bashing, making light, ridiculing, insulting (pick your own negative word) people who choose to focus on biomedical treatments.They do lots of name calling. Funny, I haven't figured out why they are so damn angry and hostile since they think having kids with autism is GREAT! They belittle people who want answers to what happened to our children. We're demanding research sanctioned by the government to get to the bottom of things. That's why we spend a good deal of time here talking about legislation and politics and such.The treatments you mentioned are therapies as far as I'm concerend OT, speech, ABA etc... Most everybody does those no matter where you fall in this debate. Good for them if they give their kids vitamins. We all can benefit from supplements due to the lack of nutrients in our food.Anyways, you seem a little too pre-occupied to me with "us" and the "nuero-diverse crowd". No need for lengthy explanations about your position on things or attempting to find common ground between the two groups. I think people here have given you adequate information to decide what you want to do about vaccinations. Do with it as you please.Good luck,> I also would like to add a comment about Neurodiversity. I am not > a "member" of Neurodiversity nor a spokesman for their interests. I > do, however, have great admiration for their position on the overall > issue of Autism, and I am under the impression that that position is > cast in a more negative light here than it needs to be. I have heard > much mention here of the ND crowd being anti-treatment, but I have not > found this to be the case. There are numerous treatments that many > individuals who have interest in ND would recommend, including > behavioral modification (ABA among other things), SLT, OT, various > supplements, etc. I have also heard some of them mention that > chelation is an appropriate treatment - for heavy metal poisoning. > Their skepticism seems to lie in the claim that it can cure autism. I > think anyone would have to agree that there is enough room for doubt in > the debate that this is not an utterly ludicrous statement for someone > to make. There are situations where chelation has not affected > autistic behavior in individuals, and there are situations where it > has. There is at least one case where an individual has lost their > life due to chelation, and there are huge amounts of cases where no > harm has been done. What does this tell us? Not much. And while this > side of the debate continually claims that the vaccines = autism theory > is a result of profit-seeking (by pharma), the other side continually > claims that the chelation = cure theory is a result of profit-seeking > (by practitioners). Opposing but similar viewpoints to be sure.

[Guest guest]

My son will be 30 next month he regressed after his mmr 28 years ago. I went the nutritional route 25 years ago. If you think it is controversial now think how crazy I must of sounded back then. H <stratpat@...> wrote: There will be children who are autistic and unvaccinated. There actually is/are genetic forms of autism- fragile X, some other rare forms of actual genetic autism caused by mutations, deletions in genetic material which result

in abnormalities in proteins and in differentiation processes, etc. There will be environmentally induced autism in children which is caused by toxins in the environment. Do real epidemiology on the vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children. Look at the numbers. The numbers will not tell you it is or isn't the mercury. They numbers will tell you whether it is or isn't the vaccines. If the vaccines are the culprit, then you have to look carefully at the vaccines, their components and especially the vaccine protocol.

Re:Request for information Thanks for the info, . While I appreciate your efforts to convince me that there is a conspiracy to harm our children, and I understand that you are well-intentioned in doing so, I still can't swallow the concept that some "evil empire" is deliberately setting out to damage kids with mercury poisoning.Look, I know my opinion about this is not embraced here, but I watch the info on this group because I do have a baby on the way and want to make good

decisions. I agree that there is a possibility - an as yet unproven possibility - that vaccines or mercury are related to the onset of autism in some children. And I am 100% convinced that some environmental factor contributes to the onset of autism. Otherwise we should see 100% prevalence rates in identical twins with ASD. I do not know - and I believe nobody knows, despite what they believe to be the truth - what the environmental agents are. The range of potential factors is so tremendous that I do not expect this puzzle to be solved for a long, long time. And I acknowledge that this debate will go on until that determination is made once and for all. So I feel that I do see the situation clearly, , just from a different perspective than yours. And I do respect your position. And I would like the opportunity to continue to pose questions that I feel members of this list can help provide answers for - such as where

to buy individually packaged vaccines or whether Hep-B is administered the day of birth.I also would like to add a comment about Neurodiversity. I am not a "member" of Neurodiversity nor a spokesman for their interests. I do, however, have great admiration for their position on the overall issue of Autism, and I am under the impression that that position is cast in a more negative light here than it needs to be. I have heard much mention here of the ND crowd being anti-treatment, but I have not found this to be the case. There are numerous treatments that many individuals who have interest in ND would recommend, including behavioral modification (ABA among other things), SLT, OT, various supplements, etc. I have also heard some of them mention that chelation is an appropriate treatment - for heavy metal poisoning. Their skepticism seems to lie in the claim that it can cure autism. I think anyone would have to

agree that there is enough room for doubt in the debate that this is not an utterly ludicrous statement for someone to make. There are situations where chelation has not affected autistic behavior in individuals, and there are situations where it has. There is at least one case where an individual has lost their life due to chelation, and there are huge amounts of cases where no harm has been done. What does this tell us? Not much. And while this side of the debate continually claims that the vaccines = autism theory is a result of profit-seeking (by pharma), the other side continually claims that the chelation = cure theory is a result of profit-seeking (by practitioners). Opposing but similar viewpoints to be sure.This past weekend, my wife and I had one of my sons' classmates' families over for the afternoon - we all had a wonderful time. My wife and I have strictly used behavioral approaches with our son, and

the visiting parents have used a combination of behavioral (RDI) and bio-medical approaches (B-12, chelation, IVIG, etc.) The bottom line is: both of our sons have seen some progress in their ASD-related issues. Both are at approximately the same level of functioning (moderate, if I had to label it), although my son has maybe progressed a bit more because the other boy has some ADHD-type tendencies which accentuate some of the ASD stuff. We had a very nice, very productive discussion of how we arrived at our treatment decisions, what sources of information were used, whether there really is an "epidemic", what the future holds for our children, what role vaccines play, etc. I think we both came away feeling like we had more complete information to base future decisions on, and were more than happy to acknowledge that there are diverse viewpoints on these issues.I guess what I am saying is that I would love to see

more civil discussion and less finger-pointing, attacking, and insulting when it comes to this debate. No matter which side we align with, or if we walk down the middle of the road, we are all just trying to do the best for those in our society who are on the autism spectrum.Steve>> >Also, do newborns receive Hep-B the day of birth? <> > Even in some cases when the parents say emphatically NO! It is common practice for newborns to receive their first shot of the Hep B series in the first 12 hours after birth. Does it not anger you a little that doctors hands are tied as to safer (though I personally believe no vaccine is ever safe) vaccine schedules? Do you see who is calling all the shots and controlling the doctor and parents? Do you see who benefits, as

in profit (drug companies) and control (government), are you starting to see more clearly?> > >

[Guest guest]

No question. But you stood firm and held to your convictions.

Good for you.

You were swimming upstream against a tsunami.

Re:Request for information

Thanks for the info, . While I appreciate your efforts to convince me that there is a conspiracy to harm our children, and I understand that you are well-intentioned in doing so, I still can't swallow the concept that some "evil empire" is deliberately setting out to damage kids with mercury poisoning.Look, I know my opinion about this is not embraced here, but I watch the info on this group because I do have a baby on the way and want to make good decisions. I agree that there is a possibility - an as yet unproven possibility - that vaccines or mercury are related to the onset of autism in some children. And I am 100% convinced that some environmental factor contributes to the onset of autism. Otherwise we should see 100% prevalence rates in identical twins with ASD. I do not know - and I believe nobody knows, despite what they believe to be the truth - what the environmental agents are. The range of potential factors is so tremendous that I do not expect this puzzle to be solved for a long, long time. And I acknowledge that this debate will go on until that determination is made once and for all. So I feel that I do see the situation clearly, , just from a different perspective than yours. And I do respect your position. And I would like the opportunity to continue to pose questions that I feel members of this list can help provide answers for - such as where to buy individually packaged vaccines or whether Hep-B is administered the day of birth.I also would like to add a comment about Neurodiversity. I am not a "member" of Neurodiversity nor a spokesman for their interests. I do, however, have great admiration for their position on the overall issue of Autism, and I am under the impression that that position is cast in a more negative light here than it needs to be. I have heard much mention here of the ND crowd being anti-treatment, but I have not found this to be the case. There are numerous treatments that many individuals who have interest in ND would recommend, including behavioral modification (ABA among other things), SLT, OT, various supplements, etc. I have also heard some of them mention that chelation is an appropriate treatment - for heavy metal poisoning. Their skepticism seems to lie in the claim that it can cure autism. I think anyone would have to agree that there is enough room for doubt in the debate that this is not an utterly ludicrous statement for someone to make. There are situations where chelation has not affected autistic behavior in individuals, and there are situations where it has. There is at least one case where an individual has lost their life due to chelation, and there are huge amounts of cases where no harm has been done. What does this tell us? Not much. And while this side of the debate continually claims that the vaccines = autism theory is a result of profit-seeking (by pharma), the other side continually claims that the chelation = cure theory is a result of profit-seeking (by practitioners). Opposing but similar viewpoints to be sure.This past weekend, my wife and I had one of my sons' classmates' families over for the afternoon - we all had a wonderful time. My wife and I have strictly used behavioral approaches with our son, and the visiting parents have used a combination of behavioral (RDI) and bio-medical approaches (B-12, chelation, IVIG, etc.) The bottom line is: both of our sons have seen some progress in their ASD-related issues. Both are at approximately the same level of functioning (moderate, if I had to label it), although my son has maybe progressed a bit more because the other boy has some ADHD-type tendencies which accentuate some of the ASD stuff. We had a very nice, very productive discussion of how we arrived at our treatment decisions, what sources of information were used, whether there really is an "epidemic", what the future holds for our children, what role vaccines play, etc. I think we both came away feeling like we had more complete information to base future decisions on, and were more than happy to acknowledge that there are diverse viewpoints on these issues.I guess what I am saying is that I would love to see more civil discussion and less finger-pointing, attacking, and insulting when it comes to this debate. No matter which side we align with, or if we walk down the middle of the road, we are all just trying to do the best for those in our society who are on the autism spectrum.Steve>> >Also, do newborns receive Hep-B the day of birth? <> > Even in some cases when the parents say emphatically NO! It is common practice for newborns to receive their first shot of the Hep B series in the first 12 hours after birth. Does it not anger you a little that doctors hands are tied as to safer (though I personally believe no vaccine is ever safe) vaccine schedules? Do you see who is calling all the shots and controlling the doctor and parents? Do you see who benefits, as in profit (drug companies) and control (government), are you starting to see more clearly?> > >

[Guest guest]

Perhaps you could start a group on autism where you could

carefully monitor the members' behavior to conform to your wishes.

> >

> > >Also, do newborns receive Hep-B the day of birth? <

> >

> > Even in some cases when the parents say emphatically NO! It is

> common practice for newborns to receive their first shot of the

Hep B

> series in the first 12 hours after birth. Does it not anger you a

> little that doctors hands are tied as to safer (though I

personally

> believe no vaccine is ever safe) vaccine schedules? Do you see

who is

> calling all the shots and controlling the doctor and parents? Do

you

> see who benefits, as in profit (drug companies) and control

> (government), are you starting to see more clearly?

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I was also against the whole vaccine/mercury idea, how could a

doctor who cared about children do this? But they did. And I asked

for no thimerisol, and they did it anyway. My obstetrician has 4

children on the spectrum, she apologized to me re: my son's autism.

If you don't think that there is a link, here are two facts about my

son. What we've found after much medical testing is; Dermot cannot

excrete mercury of any kind. While my 6 year old neurotypical son

can, my 5 year old autistic son cannot. Also, Dermot has only 3 of

the 5 antibodies in his system. To have assaulted his little broken

immune system in the way we did is something I have to carry with me

until the day I die. Even if he loses his diagnosis (medical

intervention, chelation, ABA, RDI, b12, whatever it takes), his

childhood was stolen from us. And if you think the federal

government would never do something like this, go ahead and Google

the Tuskegee experiment, Gulf War Syndrome (my husband's issue) and

the high incidence of Lou Gehrig's disease in our current combat

veterans.

So while you worry that you ruffled a few feathers, I worry that

you're not listening and are going ahead and vaccinate that newborn.

Remember, too, Hepatitis B is a disease transfered either during sex

or needle exchange. What newborn needs that?

[Guest guest]

I also waited 7 days to have my son circumcised. He healed beautifully! They did it in the doctor's office when he went in for his one week check up. My husband was in there with him and stated that the way it was done was very human. We waited because my father had suggested this for the same reasons. He is a minister and said that this is what the Jews did in the biblical days because the child would heal better. So we waited and it went great. Unfortunately, he didn't know about the vaccines until my son was 6 months old. My father told me before I took him to his visit "Ask the doctor if those shots have mercury in them. There is a big stir starting up about mercury in vaccines and what it is doing to kids!" Of course the doctor played dumb and I was more dumb and allowed them to inject my son with a neurotoxin!

Check out the all-new beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Guest guest]

>While I appreciate your efforts to convince me that there is a conspiracy to harm our children, and I understand that you are well-intentioned in doing so<

I do not believe that there are certain individuals wanting intentionally to harm our children. For whatever reason the health officials have decided that we are a herd (their words) and there will be those in the herd who will harmed by vaccines, but that is acceptable to them for the good of the whole, BUT they have refused to publicly acknowledge the number that are injured or even that they have been injured. If anything, the conspiracy is that they conceal that truth.

C.

[Guest guest]

>While I appreciate your efforts to convince me that there is a conspiracy to harm our children, and I understand that you are well-intentioned in doing so<

I do not believe that there are certain individuals wanting intentionally to harm our children. For whatever reason the health officials have decided that we are a herd (their words) and there will be those in the herd who will harmed by vaccines, but that is acceptable to them for the good of the whole, BUT they have refused to publicly acknowledge the number that are injured or even that they have been injured. If anything, the conspiracy is that they conceal that truth.

C.