Re: Digest Number 238

[Guest guest]

Washing hands has pros & cons too: using cold water is less absorbing to the

skin than hot, what can you use that is non-residual ie residue collects germs,

under the nails is the worst place, does cleanliness outdo intent, ie a clean

heart is a more powerful deterrent than potentially dirty hands. Just some

thoughts.

I'll check the figures tonight, but after my " days off " I come back to work to

find that out of 30 elderly patients, 90% 'flu vaccinated, at least 10 have

anti-biotic-requiring chest infections!

We have to view the whole picture, not just the kids.

If you want some clues for simple & prophylactic homeopathy I would be happy to

discuss: mail me direct if you want

Jane

xx

With more than 17 million e-mails exchanged daily...

....ONElist is THE place where the world talks!

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in today's digest:

1. Re: (no subject)

From: Jefkarp@...

2. Re: (no subject)

From: " Rhoda " <rhodaf@...>

3. Re: Getting Tough on Chickenpox Government Recommends Mandator...

From: Cvroth@...

4. Re: Getting Tough on Chickenpox Government Recommends Mandator...

From: Sebastiana <pienaar@...>

5. Re: I'm new and oral polio

From: Cvroth@...

6. Re: I'm new and oral polio

From: Sebastiana <pienaar@...>

7. TB vaccine

From: Rita Hoffman <rhoffman@...>

8. Re: religious exemptions and interview

From: Brad & Dawn Irons <birons@...>

9. Getting the diseases from our children....

From: Sarau71571@...

10. NOTE FROM LIST OWNER

From: " Mom2Q " <mom2q@...>

11. Re: Opposition to vaccinations is worrisome to physicians

From: Jefkarp@...

12. Re: Getting Tough on Chickenpox Government Recommends Mandator...

From: Jefkarp@...

13. Re: New to list/WELL-BABY VISITS

From: Jefkarp@...

14. Re: New to list/WELL-BABY VISITS

From: Jefkarp@...

15. Re: (no subject)

From: Jefkarp@...

16. No vaccinations at all?

From: DiBrown66@...

17. Re: NOTE FROM LIST OWNER

From: " Mike and Hoffman " <cmhoffman@...>

18. food

From: Dlfnluvr@...

19. MMR Legislation in Louisiana Revisited

From: " Mom2Q " <mom2q@...>

20. More on Hep B

From: " Mom2Q " <mom2q@...>

21. well baby checks

From: " The Tobins " <tobin@...>

22. Re: food

From: Cvroth@...

23. Re: food

From: Cvroth@...

24. [Fwd: " Personal " Religious Exemption From Immunizations]

From: Brad & Dawn Irons <birons@...>

25. Re: (no subject)

From: " Potts " <niccolle68@...>

[Guest guest]

Hi Betty in VA!

What is decadron? I've never heard of it?

[Guest guest]

I am SO scared of Cortisone Shots! I've heard they hurt real bad! Also, my

mother had one once in her wrist. That night she had to be rushed to the

hospital because of her blood pressure. I have high blood pressure also so

it kinda has me worried. The Dr. has been wanting to give me one!

Has anyone had a shot in their jaw?

[Guest guest]

Hi all. I've enjoyed reading as our board has become more and

more active. Here's a few personal insights on some of the

discussions:

Gloves-- I use the arthritis gloves at night and my hands do seem

to feel better in the morning. Sometimes I have even worn them to

type when my hands are bad. I would love to discover my ideal

" glove " . It would extend over the wrist for warmth and support and

the very tips of the fingers would be cut out for typing, etc. If you

cut the tips from the current gloves out there, they lose the

elasticity.

Exercise-- I don't swim but love pool therapy. I really can't do

water aerobics but I participate in an Arthritis Foundation

sponsored Arthritis I class. The pool is 92 degrees, 4.5 feet deep

and the class is mostly stretches, etc. Water walking is great

exercise and I really can't do a lot of walking outside the water. I

have also made some good friends at the pool. You'll find others

who know something of daily pain yet we laugh together.

Back pain-- If you read the types of PA, you will find that

spondylitis is listed. That is PA in the spine. The lower back, esp.

the sacroiliac joints, is very painful. I have spondylitis as the most

painful feature with my PA. My hands, feet, ankles, jaw, etc. are

much more responsive to the MTX than the spine. I hurt from my

neck to my tailbone. There is a lot of muscle and tendon

involvement. Being buoyant in the water is one of the best things I

can do for my back. I have needed a cane several times this year

and like some of you, I worry about needing a wheelchair someday

and how that will affect my family. I recently had some relief by

having a steroid injection into the more painful SI joint on the right

side. I had to go to a pain clinic to get this done.

Trauma--I believe that for me, the auto-immune problem was in the

body but " controlled " until a major illness overwhelmed the immune

system. I had a ruptured ovarian cyst that caused internal

bleeding. I was very ill. After that event, things went downhill in a

hurry. I consider that time (4 years ago) to be the onset of PA for

me. It took a while to get a diagnosis. I was young, looked fine,

the P. is very mild for me, and I never swelled up enough :-). The

first time I read a PA pamphlet, I " knew " this is what I was facing.

It took more than a year for enough signs and symptoms to surface

for a clear diagnosis. I have been on MTX for a year. It took me a

long time to " give in " to the serious drugs. I am much more

functional on the MTX.

Fatigue--I read recently on an RA site that to deal with the disease

it would be reasonable to need 10-12 hours of sleep per night AND

up to a 60 minute nap each morning AND afternoon. The fatigue of

PA could likely need the same treatment. I don't usually get that

kind of rest but I can feel less guilty now for needing it :-)

Work-- I teach college on a part time basis. I love what I do. It has

gotten harder and harder to keep up. I have a 13 yo daughter and a

wonderful hubby. The mother, wife, teacher roles are important to

me but something is always sacrificed when I work because I can't

do half of what I once did it seems.

Hysterectomy-- I am 8 weeks post op from a complete

hysterectomy. I think I will be very glad I did it in a few more

months. I had a lot of problems and was in pain at least 10 days a

month and sometimes all month. After drugs and a laser surgery

didn't work, I started asking for a hyst. This was a pain I COULD

get rid of. One word of warning...the PA and hyst. recovery

together can really take it's toll. I found that it has taken 6-8 weeks

to even get through a day. Be prepared to line up help, food, etc. I

thought I was prepared but I really underestimated what the

recovery would be. I would think any major surgery with PA would

have a more lengthened recovery.

thanks for reading this. thanks for all the writing, too. this is a

great place for sharing.

LaRita (La)

Thought from LaRita

Beware of health books, you might die of a misprint.--Mark Twain

[Guest guest]

Decadron is a form of hydroxycorticosteroids (steroid family). It is given

for cerebral edema, allergy reactions, inflammation conditions. It is also

used to prevent chemo therapy-induced nausea and vomiting. I have seen it

used mainly for allergy reactions. It is not a new drug and is administered

by mouth or injection This is from my PDR book and hope it helps you.

Betty in Va.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/10/00 3:37:08 PM, amy913@... writes:

<< " Are you nervous? Why are you shaking? " This is the second time this

month I have had someone I didnt know ask me this. >>

I find it soooo hard to understand why people - I assume you are talking

about adults - don't recognize a medical condition when they see it. How old

are these people? Surely not over 60. I remember knowing people with tremors

all my life, and knowing it would not be polite to stare, let alone to

comment. (No, not CMTers with tremors, just common people.)

My earliest memory in my life was my kindergarten teacher, Miss Freestat. She

had white hair, and she had a pronounced tremor in her hands. When we left

each day she would take our heads in her hands and try to kiss the tops of

our heads. It was quite a daily experience, but even we 4 and 5 year olds

knew better than to comment. It was just part of life. We knew when it would

be rude to say anything personal. It simply was not done. I can't believe any

of my peers would be rude as adults.

On the other hand, my mother-in-law was a terror about that. She would say

whatever she wanted to about anyone she saw, be it a friend, a stranger or a

relative, and she chose not to believe her comments would hurt anyone. She

was downright cruel and evil in the way she pointed out other people's

personal and physical flaws or " blemishes " in a loud voice to be sure

everyone heard her. It was terribly embarrassing to be out with her. I hope

none of you lived in Sunnyside, Washington where she carried out her

destructive tactics. She may not have commented on tremors, however, because

her husband had Parkinsons for a number of years.

[Guest guest]

Hi to all the newcomers!!

I am and I have CMT 1 I am 46 yrs. old and was diagnosed almost 6

yrs. ago after a fall at work. I went through one surgery to repair a

herniated disc and and when I loss feeling and had extreme numbness that

wouldn't go away plus chronic pain I ended up having EMG done and blood

test for the CMT 1. I ended up going through a second surgery after the

first one didn't work.....and here I am today. Nobody in my Family had

even heard of this disease till I was diagnosed. Now there have been 7

people in my Family including my Grandson Chance who is 7 diagnosed. I

also have Family that is from my Fathers first marriage that I just

found his January on the internet and come to find out several members

have it also including my half brother. I remember my Dad had extremely

high arches and use to walk very stiff he also use to get terrible leg

cramps at night. He worked 42 yrs. at U.S. steel and hardly ever missed

a days work , he passed away 18 yrs. ago never knowing he had a

hereditary disease.

You have joined a great list...I have learned so much from being on here

and getting input from all the Group. I have gotton more out of this

list and CMT International than any of the Doctors I have encountered

over the past 6 yrs.

CATHY

CSCluv**

http://community.webtv.net/cat926/CATHYSCOOLCATCORNER

[Guest guest]

Hi all me again. I thought id tell ya about the comment i got today

dince we are talking about the tremors. I was having a conversation

with someone I didnt know today, and they made the comment " Are you

nervous? Why are you shaking? " This is the second time this month I

have had someone I didnt know ask me this.

amy

http://community.webtv.net/amy913/FromtheHeart

[Guest guest]

Happens to all of us Amy. Once an old vet asked me if I was drunk walking

like I do. I dread the day I get pulled over for something and the cops want

me to do a sobriety walk.

Zaman

[Guest guest]

TO Zarman and all the rest; I know the feeling of people thinking you are

drunk because of the way you walk. And yes, there is not enough knowledge

with the doctors in our country about CMT. I live in a small town in

Southeast Mo, and belong to a support group in St. Louis. There are

approximately 12 people that attend these meetings regularly. This is a

good support for us as we know we are not alone with our symptoms. The fact

that the feet are always cold as ice and you just don't know when your

balance will not hold you. After we learn to live with the feelings of not

being good enough, we can prove that we can accomplish very much in life.

Thanks for the chance to share a few of my views. Doris.

-----Original Message-----

From: ne14109now@... <ne14109now@...>

egroups <egroups>

Date: Monday, April 10, 2000 8:55 PM

Subject: Re: [] Digest Number 238

>Happens to all of us Amy. Once an old vet asked me if I was drunk walking

>like I do. I dread the day I get pulled over for something and the cops

want

>me to do a sobriety walk.

>Zaman

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>eGroups eLerts

>It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!

>1/3079/7/_/616793/_/955425715/

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/10/00 9:02:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

ne14109now@... writes:

<< Happens to all of us Amy. Once an old vet asked me if I was drunk walking

like I do. I dread the day I get pulled over for something and the cops want

me to do a sobriety walk.

Zaman

>>

*************

Zaman, I know exactly what you mean. Before I started using my arm crutches

I weaved and wobbled. I imagine I also looked as if I was drunk and I don't

drink. Well hardly ever...

Jeanie (from Oregon)

Moonglow21@...

Jeanie421@...

come and visit <A

HREF= " Charcot-Marie-Toothonlinechat " >CMT chat

room</A>

Charcot-Marie-Toothonlinechat

[Guest guest]

hi cathy this is brad my dau. we believe has CMT we recently got a

test back from NIH in WASHINGTON D.C. and i could not believe they

only tested for type x it was neg. she has MEYELIN MISSING OR

INCOMPLETE she had a nerve bio. we are now going to get her tested

for type 1 i noticed you have type 1 do you have meyelin missing ?

also i have learned more on this web than any doc. has told us i

believe i also have cmt and all along my grandmothers family line my

grandmother lived to be 94 years old so that makes me feel real good

also how is chance doing brad

cat926@w... wrote:

> Hi to all the newcomers!!

> I am and I have CMT 1 I am 46 yrs. old and was diagnosed

almost 6

> yrs. ago after a fall at work. I went through one surgery to

repair a

> herniated disc and and when I loss feeling and had extreme numbness

that

> wouldn't go away plus chronic pain I ended up having EMG done and

blood

> test for the CMT 1. I ended up going through a second surgery

after the

> first one didn't work.....and here I am today. Nobody in my Family

had

> even heard of this disease till I was diagnosed. Now there have

been 7

> people in my Family including my Grandson Chance who is 7

diagnosed. I

> also have Family that is from my Fathers first marriage that I just

> found his January on the internet and come to find out several

members

> have it also including my half brother. I remember my Dad had

extremely

> high arches and use to walk very stiff he also use to get terrible

leg

> cramps at night. He worked 42 yrs. at U.S. steel and hardly ever

missed

> a days work , he passed away 18 yrs. ago never knowing he had a

> hereditary disease.

> You have joined a great list...I have learned so much from being on

here

> and getting input from all the Group. I have gotton more out of

this

> list and CMT International than any of the Doctors I have

encountered

> over the past 6 yrs.

>

> CATHY

>

>

>

> CSCluv**

>

>

>

>

>

> http://community.webtv.net/cat926/CATHYSCOOLCATCORNER

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I speak for myself when I say, I believe your e-mail's would be easier to

read if they were in lower case letters.

Food for thought,

E.

[Guest guest]

ME TOO, I AM 50 YEARS OLD AND JUST FOUND OUT I HAD CMT. I HAD TO TELL MY 80 YEAR

OLD MOTHER ABOUT THIS AND SHE THOUGHT I WAS CRAZY, WELL SHE DID THE TEST AND YEP

SHE HAD CMT. NOW MY 5 KIDS ARE BEING TESTED, 2 ALREADY HAVE IT NOW THE GRAND

KIDS GET DONE, WHAT A DRAG. BUT AT LEAST WE NOW KNOW WHY WE CAN'T WALK RIGHT AND

WHY WE FALL SO MUCH. IT DOES GET WORSE WITH AGE, AND WE ALL NEED TO BE STRONG.

MONICA

-----Original Message-----

From: dwnestr@... <dwnestr@...>

egroups <egroups>

Date: Friday, April 14, 2000 4:02 PM

Subject: Re: [] Digest Number 238

hi cathy this is brad my dau. we believe has CMT we recently got a

test back from NIH in WASHINGTON D.C. and i could not believe they

only tested for type x it was neg. she has MEYELIN MISSING OR

INCOMPLETE she had a nerve bio. we are now going to get her tested

for type 1 i noticed you have type 1 do you have meyelin missing ?

also i have learned more on this web than any doc. has told us i

believe i also have cmt and all along my grandmothers family line my

grandmother lived to be 94 years old so that makes me feel real good

also how is chance doing brad

cat926@w... wrote:

> Hi to all the newcomers!!

> I am and I have CMT 1 I am 46 yrs. old and was diagnosed

almost 6

> yrs. ago after a fall at work. I went through one surgery to

repair a

> herniated disc and and when I loss feeling and had extreme numbness

that

> wouldn't go away plus chronic pain I ended up having EMG done and

blood

> test for the CMT 1. I ended up going through a second surgery

after the

> first one didn't work.....and here I am today. Nobody in my Family

had

> even heard of this disease till I was diagnosed. Now there have

been 7

> people in my Family including my Grandson Chance who is 7

diagnosed. I

> also have Family that is from my Fathers first marriage that I just

> found his January on the internet and come to find out several

members

> have it also including my half brother. I remember my Dad had

extremely

> high arches and use to walk very stiff he also use to get terrible

leg

> cramps at night. He worked 42 yrs. at U.S. steel and hardly ever

missed

> a days work , he passed away 18 yrs. ago never knowing he had a

> hereditary disease.

> You have joined a great list...I have learned so much from being on

here

> and getting input from all the Group. I have gotton more out of

this

> list and CMT International than any of the Doctors I have

encountered

> over the past 6 yrs.

>

> CATHY

>

>

>

> CSCluv**

>

>

>

>

>

> http://community.webtv.net/cat926/CATHYSCOOLCATCORNER

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Dear Summer:

I think blood-blood transmission is not discussed because it was

thought to be a given. In fact, if you isolate every transmission of

HCV, it has to have passed through blood, and find it's way to the other

person's blood stream. This is true no matter what was the mechanism,

such as IV Drug Abuse, transfusion, piercings, tattoos, drug snorting,

needle sticks, etc., all involved having a source/host, who was HCV

positive, and their blood then coming into contact with the victims.

These are facts, and, while the method of delivering that infected blood

may vary, it still gets back to a blood to blood transmission. Marty

[Guest guest]

Dear :

Look at the doc's article of today, and if that is not enough let me

know and I'll pull more for you. Marty

[Guest guest]

Dear :

Look at the doc's article of today, and if that is not enough let me

know and I'll pull more for you. Marty

[Guest guest]

> Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:45:22 -0000

> From: john_clark_28@...

>Subject: Please respond to this mail

>

>Hello Everyone,

> My Name is and unfortunately it is a

>bad way of introducing myself in this way. I have been infected with

>HIV recently. Fortunately I have landed in a site and got hope of

>living again.

>

> Is there anyone who has been cured with HIV or

>AIDS. If so what medication have you used to get rid of HIV virus. I

>have overheard that people have been cured but not able to find

>atleast one person.

>john clark

Dear , Good on you for branching out with your investigations. I

have several observations on the subject:

1) HIV does not necessarily cause AIDS. The drugs you take for HIV, (ie

AZT) cause the onset of AIDS related symptoms, and destroy your immune

system. I know lots of people who are HIV+. The ones that took the

doctor's drugs are all dead. The ones that did not take any drugs, but

focussed on strengthening their immune system are all still alive AND

WELL!

2) Urine Therapy has shown incredible results with HIV+ patients. Most

report expelling huge amounts of parasites and parasite eggs in their

stools after commencing urine therapy.

3) There are recorded cases of HIV+ people becoming HIV- (including PCR

negative) after undergoing ozone therapy. This involved a type of

dialysis machine with 'washed' the infected blood twice by passing it

through ozone. Funnily enough, the medical authorities in both the USA

and Australia have shown relentless determination to drive out anyone

working on blood cleansing using ozone. (Must have worked better than

they thought).

4) Back to number one. There is still no firm evidence that HIV causes

AIDS. Indeed, many thousands of people have died of AIDS who were HIV

negative. HIV positive is NOT a necessary indicator for AIDS. Check for

yourself. Conversely, to maintain statistical hysteria, people dying of

malnutrition, or TB, or influeza, if found to be HIV+, are classified as

dying of AIDS. Go figure!

5) Whatever you choose to do, survival for you will need to encompass a

lifestlye change, including diet and attitude. Focus on strengthening

the immune system, rid your body of parasite infestations (and dont use

prescription medication - it doesn't work), and stop putting poisons in

your body (ie nutrasweet/aspartame products, refined sugar, fast foods,

carbonated beverages, coffee/tea). Increase the oxygen levels of your

fluids and tissues, exercise, do yoga, smile at people, and smell the

roses.

good luck

Duncan

Duncan M. Roads

Editor, NEXUS Magazine

PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia

Tel: +61 (0)7 5442 9280; Fax: +61 (0)7 5442 9381

http://www.nexusmagazine.com ICQ#62399259

" The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means.

On the contrary, the means always determine the end. "

(Aldous Huxley)

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the tips Duncan,

I'd like to know if your magazine covers any hiv related issues.

Also.....I remember hearing that prof. Duesberg was going to inject

himself with the HIV virus -(as a proof of its harmlessness) has he done

this yet? and/or is the difficulty in that the so called hiv virus cannot

be isolated or identified?

thanks,

paul

[Guest guest]

Hi Terry,

Ditto about what Dave said about treatment. I have been done about 1 1/2 months now and am still (fingers crossed) in remission. It was not easy however it got easier as time went on. My life style changed a little and I had to rest much more but I still worked and did other things. I just had to accept the fact that I would be fluish off and on and tired all the time. I learned to live with a headache which, by the way, I haven't had one now since off of treatment. I lost a lot of weight, (went down to 89 lbs.) but I am already back up to 96lbs (I am little to begin with). I can't seem to stop eating now. The most important thing is that "I DID IT" and I'm proud of myself for hanging in there. Keep in touch with all of us, we will help you through it!

Love, Vicky

Hey Raf, where are you???

[Guest guest]

Vicky I am proud of you also..I myself couldn't handle treatment but I had alot of personal upsets I was dealing with also so it may have had alot to do with it..

To all the new comers: Please write and say hello again for it seems I have missed some posts..I have been pretty busy and have lost track of alot of them..

I want to introduce myself though..I am Jan and have been with this group since started it..This is a great bunch of people who are here to listen to whatever you feel like talking about..We help with the Hep C advice but we are also here for emotional support or just to have a good laugh which helps us forget for a little while we are fighting a dragon..But we are all here to fight it together regardless if it is by laughing..saying a prayer or just saying hello...

I have had Hep C for almost 20 yrs..I thought I had gooten it through drug use until I found out how long I had had it..I must have gotten it during a surgery..That's the only other explaniation I have..I have tried treatment twice but I can not handle it emotionally..THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN'T.. I am going to try it once more if the Dr recommends it to me again..I get depressed...tired...joint aches..fever...you name it we get it...The main thing is remember YOU ARE NOT ALONE..There are many more just like you....

[Guest guest]

I believe my hair is coming back, too. I actually

didn't lose much, at least not obviously. My hair just

got a little thinner. I can already notice it getting

thicker again. I've been off the tx for about a month.

-dz-

--- VicLea227@... wrote:

> Hi Terry,

>

> Ditto about what Dave said about treatment.

> I have been done about 1

> 1/2 months now and am still (fingers crossed) in

> remission. It was not easy

> however it got easier as time went on. My life

> style changed a little and I

> had to rest much more but I still worked and did

> other things. I just had to

> accept the fact that I would be fluish off and on

> and tired all the time. I

> learned to live with a headache which, by the way, I

> haven't had one now

> since off of treatment. I lost a lot of weight,

> (went down to 89 lbs.) but I

> am already back up to 96lbs (I am little to begin

> with). I can't seem to

> stop eating now. The most important thing is that

> " I DID IT " and I'm proud

> of myself for hanging in there. Keep in touch with

> all of us, we will help

> you through it!

>

> Love, Vicky

>

> Hey Raf, where are you???

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Ed, I am not certain what you mean by the " leakage " of O2 in multiplace

chambers. We only use hoods which are totally clear and we have never had

a child who would not readily accept them. If we used masks, I could see

this as a potential problem. Also, if the volume of O2 is kept at proper

volume to keep the hood fully inflated, there will be an excess of O2 which

is never used by the person in the hood. The kids treat the hoods(which

are totally clear) and think of them as " Buzz Lightyear " helmets. Our kids

do not dive, they go in their spaceship to one of the many planets. If

there was any leakage of Oxygen, our system would detect it immediately and

we would find out where the problem is. By keeping the flow of Oxygen

sufficient and using proper " venting " techniques as taught to our

technicians by Catoe, there are no issues with CO2. Also, most

children or adults who may show some claustrophobia are much more

comfortable in a multiplace chamber because of the freedom of movement and

the kids can interact with each other as well as the parents.

I would also like to add that we leave the hoods on the person until we come

within 5 feet of surface which means all clients average at least 72 minutes

of Oxygen per session and it also minimizes the risks in depressurizing

which, when done properly and slowly, are almost non existent anyway.

You should have seen Cody operating, yes I said operating as in " driving "

the Miracle Mountain Railroad. He was using the controls and fully

operating the train with Lynette sitting behind him. Our train is a 1/8

scale, 7 1/2 inch gauge replica of the Sante Fe Chief diesel engine powered

by a 5 HP gasoline engine with hydraulic drive. It can pull a half dozen

kids and adults with no problem. When I told Cody he had earned his

" engineers " license to run the train, his question was " without my mom? "

We are presently installing over 500 feet of track here at Miracle Mountain

with a covered bridge and trestle bridge crossing a mountain stream, etc.

What does this have to do with HBOT? Daryl and I are going to need a lot

of it when we get done.

By the way, I did not mention the fact that Cody is a great artist using his

toes to hold the brush and mixing the colors from the basics using full

brush strokes, etc. Hopefully, we will have a " Cody " work of art hanging

on our centers walls to show to everyone. He can also play my " base " with

his toes and does a good job keeping time. Lynette is one of the most

dedicated " Moms " I have ever met which is the most important element of any

therapy.

We have one of the most beautiful groups of kids, parents, and grandparents

this time ever. And they are all like one big family.

God is Good!

www.miraclemountain.org

> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:19:37 -0700

> From: Ed Nemeth <nemeth@...>

> Subject: Re: Re: Mono vs Multi-Chamber

>

> Lynette,

>

> The essential difference (which I believe is minimal) is not necessarily

> mono-place verses multi-place but whether the patient wears a mask, or

not.

>

> In the mono-place chambers my daughter uses, she is " bathed " in

> 100% oxygen so that the only gas she can inhale is oxygen.

>

> In a multi-place, and in some mono-place chambers the patient is in an

> environment of pressurized air and wears an oxygen mask that delivers 100%

> oxygen. There is some practical " leaking " of air/oxygen and the person

> will obtain slightly less than 100% oxygen.

>

> Some people use this as an argument for, or against mono vs. multi

chambers.

>

> Quite frankly, I don't see the practical issue there. Especially since

> research has not really determined what healing effects are from pressure,

> and what effects are from oxygen dissolved in the serum.

>

> Further, as you have seen so many differences of opinion on pressures, the

> subtle differences of the two chambers very quickly gets lost.

>

> But, the real issue, in my mind, is two fold:

>

> 1) In a multiplace you always have an attendant with the patient so

if

> there is a problem, or emergency, the patient can be managed

> immediately. With that said, Dr. will probably agree that the

> patient is safer in a pressurized environment than outside that

environment.

>

> In know a couple of well respected HBOT physicians who will only treat in

a

> multi-place chamber for that reason (-Deckoff at New England

> Hyeprbaric Center, as well as Jo Finegold at Hudson Valley HBOT Center)

>

> 2) For our CP kids, I really do not like the mask. Many, many CP

> children have various sensitivities, especially around the face and head,

> and wearing a mask is challenging to them. I know for my daughter ,

> we have had enormous struggles putting masks on her face for a nebulizer

> (for only ten minutes) when she had bronchitis of pneumonia. Forget an

> hour at a time!

>

> 3) Exercises in the chamber. Multi place chambers are more generally

> associated with this than mono-place chambers. However, with Dr.

> Neubauer's " clamshell " Vickers chambers, I had no difficulty manipulating

> . Certainly, a large is conducive to that as well.

>

> This should be a wide open debate. However, I will confess that I felt it

> was worth the effort for me to work with in the chamber doing

> various physical movements / exercises. I did 100 sessions with her in

the

> Vickers. Did it really make a difference? I couldn't tell you. At the

> least, I was able to use the HBOT time, to do some other therapies. So, a

> very busy day was made more efficient.

>

> (I could argue this theoretically to either direction - exercises in the

> chamber, or out of the chamber, but neither argument has any real research

> basis)

>

> 4) Economics: A fully scheduled multi-place chamber center should be

> able to easily charge less money than a mono-place based center. It is

> just less expensive when its full. And every parent here knows the issue

> of economics with these kids.

>

> Finally, there is the issue of collapsible chambers (they go up to 1.3 ATA

> and use compressed air only). If there is no other alternative, it should

> help your child. But, if you can go to a hard shell chamber with 100%

> oxygen, the healing benefits are greater. (not withstanding the recent

> discussions on the Russian research using 1.1 ATA . That is not what the

> collapsible chambers are attempting to duplicate.) Here the issue is

> clearly accessibility and economics.

>

> I have a family that I was able to introduce to a Chiropractor who used

> this technology to treat their child and he was able to clearly benefit

> (less spasticity, better motor learning, and speaking words and three word

> sentences for the first time). They could not afford anything more for

> their child. So, it was valid and valuable.

>

> I hope this helps you in helping Cody. Please let me know if you think I

> left something out, or if you have more questions.

>

> Warm Regards,

>

> Ed Nemeth

>

> At 11:57 AM 7/25/2002 -0700, you wrote:

> >Hi,

> >I would like to know if anyone has found a difference from the multi

> >chambers vs. the mono chambers? What research,if any is based on the

> >difference? My question is when Cody used the mono chamber he was

> >given the oxygen while traveling. In the mono this is not the case.

> >I realize the oxygen is only forced into the brain during the

> >ultimate pressure, however he would still be breathing and getting

> >some 100% oxygen traveling as well. I love the center here in NC,

> >just had a question in my little brain! Thanks for all your help.

> >

> >=====

> >Prayers of Healing,

> >Lynette LaScala (Cody's Mom)

> >

> >

> > " Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the

> >world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. " ~ Margaret Mead

> >

> >And we will...thanks for caring.

> >

> >__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Ed,

Thank you so much for all the information. It was extremely helpful.

I have one question I am still not clear on. If your child is in a

mono chamber, he or she gets the oxygen while diving to the 1.5 ATA

(approx. 15 minutes, one hour dive, and also 15 minutes up (approx.).

In the multi, you wait until you get to 1.5 ATA, put on the hood

(which is not like a mask, no problems with any child here on this

trip), and only get the 100% oxygen for the one hour. This means an

additional 30 minutes of 100% oxygen in the mono chamber. Does this

additional oxygen in the mono chamber enhance the healing power of

the chambers?

Thank you so much for your time. Also, I need the info to join your

organization!

Thanks,

Lynette

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

,

Yes, I did not explain everything fully. Hoods are used by many

multi-place chambers. Further, many people have good things to say about

multi-place environments; but, personally, I like the mono-place for my

daughter and would not use the multi-place for her.

The " leakage " issue is not oxygen leaving the mask, but air leaking in

(diluting the oxygen level). And, as I mentioned, I cannot see it as an

issue. Only an issue used by others to defend mono-place verses multi-place.

Like everything in life, each of use have a preference and every tool has a

use. Oxygen under pressure is the greater issue for our kids. I really

hope that came through properly.

Warm Regards,

Ed Nemeth

At 12:32 AM 7/26/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Ed, I am not certain what you mean by the " leakage " of O2 in multiplace

>chambers. We only use hoods which are totally clear and we have never had

>a child who would not readily accept them. If we used masks, I could see

>this as a potential problem. Also, if the volume of O2 is kept at proper

>volume to keep the hood fully inflated, there will be an excess of O2 which

>is never used by the person in the hood. The kids treat the hoods(which

>are totally clear) and think of them as " Buzz Lightyear " helmets. Our kids

>do not dive, they go in their spaceship to one of the many planets. If

>there was any leakage of Oxygen, our system would detect it immediately and

>we would find out where the problem is. By keeping the flow of Oxygen

>sufficient and using proper " venting " techniques as taught to our

>technicians by Catoe, there are no issues with CO2. Also, most

>children or adults who may show some claustrophobia are much more

>comfortable in a multiplace chamber because of the freedom of movement and

>the kids can interact with each other as well as the parents.

>

>I would also like to add that we leave the hoods on the person until we come

>within 5 feet of surface which means all clients average at least 72 minutes

>of Oxygen per session and it also minimizes the risks in depressurizing

>which, when done properly and slowly, are almost non existent anyway.

>

>You should have seen Cody operating, yes I said operating as in " driving "

>the Miracle Mountain Railroad. He was using the controls and fully

>operating the train with Lynette sitting behind him. Our train is a 1/8

>scale, 7 1/2 inch gauge replica of the Sante Fe Chief diesel engine powered

>by a 5 HP gasoline engine with hydraulic drive. It can pull a half dozen

>kids and adults with no problem. When I told Cody he had earned his

> " engineers " license to run the train, his question was " without my mom? "

>We are presently installing over 500 feet of track here at Miracle Mountain

>with a covered bridge and trestle bridge crossing a mountain stream, etc.

>What does this have to do with HBOT? Daryl and I are going to need a lot

>of it when we get done.

>

>By the way, I did not mention the fact that Cody is a great artist using his

>toes to hold the brush and mixing the colors from the basics using full

>brush strokes, etc. Hopefully, we will have a " Cody " work of art hanging

>on our centers walls to show to everyone. He can also play my " base " with

>his toes and does a good job keeping time. Lynette is one of the most

>dedicated " Moms " I have ever met which is the most important element of any

>therapy.

>

>We have one of the most beautiful groups of kids, parents, and grandparents

>this time ever. And they are all like one big family.

>

>God is Good!

>

>www.miraclemountain.org

>

>

>

>

> > Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:19:37 -0700

> > From: Ed Nemeth <nemeth@...>

> > Subject: Re: Re: Mono vs Multi-Chamber

> >

> > Lynette,

> >

> > The essential difference (which I believe is minimal) is not necessarily

> > mono-place verses multi-place but whether the patient wears a mask, or

>not.

> >

> > In the mono-place chambers my daughter uses, she is " bathed " in

> > 100% oxygen so that the only gas she can inhale is oxygen.

> >

> > In a multi-place, and in some mono-place chambers the patient is in an

> > environment of pressurized air and wears an oxygen mask that delivers 100%

> > oxygen. There is some practical " leaking " of air/oxygen and the person

> > will obtain slightly less than 100% oxygen.

> >

> > Some people use this as an argument for, or against mono vs. multi

>chambers.

> >

> > Quite frankly, I don't see the practical issue there. Especially since

> > research has not really determined what healing effects are from pressure,

> > and what effects are from oxygen dissolved in the serum.

> >

> > Further, as you have seen so many differences of opinion on pressures, the

> > subtle differences of the two chambers very quickly gets lost.

> >

> > But, the real issue, in my mind, is two fold:

> >

> > 1) In a multiplace you always have an attendant with the patient so

>if

> > there is a problem, or emergency, the patient can be managed

> > immediately. With that said, Dr. will probably agree that the

> > patient is safer in a pressurized environment than outside that

>environment.

> >

> > In know a couple of well respected HBOT physicians who will only treat in

>a

> > multi-place chamber for that reason (-Deckoff at New England

> > Hyeprbaric Center, as well as Jo Finegold at Hudson Valley HBOT Center)

> >

> > 2) For our CP kids, I really do not like the mask. Many, many CP

> > children have various sensitivities, especially around the face and head,

> > and wearing a mask is challenging to them. I know for my daughter ,

> > we have had enormous struggles putting masks on her face for a nebulizer

> > (for only ten minutes) when she had bronchitis of pneumonia. Forget an

> > hour at a time!

> >

> > 3) Exercises in the chamber. Multi place chambers are more generally

> > associated with this than mono-place chambers. However, with Dr.

> > Neubauer's " clamshell " Vickers chambers, I had no difficulty manipulating

> > . Certainly, a large is conducive to that as well.

> >

> > This should be a wide open debate. However, I will confess that I felt it

> > was worth the effort for me to work with in the chamber doing

> > various physical movements / exercises. I did 100 sessions with her in

>the

> > Vickers. Did it really make a difference? I couldn't tell you. At the

> > least, I was able to use the HBOT time, to do some other therapies. So, a

> > very busy day was made more efficient.

> >

> > (I could argue this theoretically to either direction - exercises in the

> > chamber, or out of the chamber, but neither argument has any real research

> > basis)

> >

> > 4) Economics: A fully scheduled multi-place chamber center should be

> > able to easily charge less money than a mono-place based center. It is

> > just less expensive when its full. And every parent here knows the issue

> > of economics with these kids.

> >

> > Finally, there is the issue of collapsible chambers (they go up to 1.3 ATA

> > and use compressed air only). If there is no other alternative, it should

> > help your child. But, if you can go to a hard shell chamber with 100%

> > oxygen, the healing benefits are greater. (not withstanding the recent

> > discussions on the Russian research using 1.1 ATA . That is not what the

> > collapsible chambers are attempting to duplicate.) Here the issue is

> > clearly accessibility and economics.

> >

> > I have a family that I was able to introduce to a Chiropractor who used

> > this technology to treat their child and he was able to clearly benefit

> > (less spasticity, better motor learning, and speaking words and three word

> > sentences for the first time). They could not afford anything more for

> > their child. So, it was valid and valuable.

> >

> > I hope this helps you in helping Cody. Please let me know if you think I

> > left something out, or if you have more questions.

> >

> > Warm Regards,

> >

> > Ed Nemeth

> >

> > At 11:57 AM 7/25/2002 -0700, you wrote:

> > >Hi,

> > >I would like to know if anyone has found a difference from the multi

> > >chambers vs. the mono chambers? What research,if any is based on the

> > >difference? My question is when Cody used the mono chamber he was

> > >given the oxygen while traveling. In the mono this is not the case.

> > >I realize the oxygen is only forced into the brain during the

> > >ultimate pressure, however he would still be breathing and getting

> > >some 100% oxygen traveling as well. I love the center here in NC,

> > >just had a question in my little brain! Thanks for all your help.

> > >

> > >=====

> > >Prayers of Healing,

> > >Lynette LaScala (Cody's Mom)

> > >

> > >

> > > " Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the

> > >world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. " ~ Margaret Mead

> > >

> > >And we will...thanks for caring.

> > >

> > >__________________________________________________

>

>

>

>

>_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._.

>

>Free downloads of nearly 50 pdf files on HBOT efficacy

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>

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>

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