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-Hi Phyllis:

Thanks for sharing about Chelle. It is so disturbing to read about

how the school allowed her to be teased. One wonders how long it

will take for the schools to understand that this is unacceptable

behavior and not a normal part of growing up.

Meeting others with OCD and not feeling so alone has also been very

helpful to our son, Steve. That is how we started attending the OCF

Conferences as living in an isolated rural area it was very

difficult to find even m.h. professionals who knew about OCD let

alone other sufferers who had been successfully treated.

Have you read the book, " Teaching the Tiger " by Marilyn Dornbusch?

That is aimed at giving ideas for accommodations for kids with ADHD,

TS and OCD. What kinds of accommodations does Chelle need and what

goals do you have for her education and social adjustment? The

answers to these questions can guide you in what to discuss at the

IEP. Good luck, take care, aloha, kathy (h)

kathyh@...

-- In @y..., " ppepe40 " <ppepe40@n...> wrote:

> Hi & Marlys,

>

> My name is Phyllis, and my almost 16-yr old daughter, Chelle

> has TS, OCD, & ADHD. Her name gets added to the list after

> and as a child who also has been in denial,

> doesn't want me to advocate for her in school, doesn't want

> E & RP therapy, and doesn't like me to talk about OCD because

> she says that makes it worse. She says she doesn't think

> about it unless I mention it. Of course, I see the behavior

> that results from it that she doesn't see.

>

> Do your kids have many friends; or, as Chelle, only one

> friend? She is slowly warming up to a couple of girls in

> her school, but they live about 1/2 hour away from us.

>

> Chelle takes meds, finally after many years, without a

> terrible struggle. The meds have helped tremendously with

> her symptoms, especially her TS tics. I'm not sure what to

> attribute it to, because she receives Dexedrine prior to

> coming home from school; but she is wiped out after school

> and sleeps sometimes until 7 or 8 o'clock. Needless to say,

> homework rarely gets done. She's very bright but failing

> school.

>

> We did have a major breakthrough last week. Chelle went to

> her first OCD support group for children and teens. There

> were 6 kids there including Chelle. This was the first time

> she met other kids who were diagnosed with OCD. They were

> just like other kids, except for a few noticable quirks.

> She got along well with them and said she wants to go back

> next week. I think she felt rather safe with them. This

> may give her some of the emotional security she needs with

> peers.

>

> I have found that school has been an extremely difficult

> place for her since 1st grade. Middle school was the worst

> you could imagine. She was teased and taunted

> unmercifully. Things are not quite so bad now that she's

> in 10th grade, but she's still considered a " problem child "

> and her teachers are not as supportive as she needs.

>

> Are your kids in the public schools? What kinds of

> accomodations do you have on their IEP's? Chelle's

> currently in an alternative school that is not working for

> her. We're looking for an approved private school for her

> to attend, but I don't know if that is the answer either. I

> want her to be able to experience as much of a normal teen

> time as possible, but I'm so concerned about her emotional

> health in the public school system. I absolutely cannot

> stand how our kids are treated by their peers, teachers, and

> the system.

>

> We have another IEP meeting coming up in about three weeks.

> Any one have any words of wisdom for me?

>

> Progress, not perfection

> Phyllis

> ppepe40@n...

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Dear Phyllis, hi my name is Patty in calif. my daughter has ocd with some

psychiotic traits and she is 12yrs old, i was just wondering my daughter has had

problems in school since 1st grade also and also her peers would you mind

telling me what kind of school behaviors did she have and how was she with her

peers? also my daughter dosent want to talk about it eaither cause she says she

will start thinking of it, this is real confuseing to me ,Im very courious what

your daughters problems in school were. Hang in there i get a feeling you and i

will be talking more, remember youre not alone ok

Patty in calif

Re: New member

-Hi Phyllis:

Thanks for sharing about Chelle. It is so disturbing to read about

how the school allowed her to be teased. One wonders how long it

will take for the schools to understand that this is unacceptable

behavior and not a normal part of growing up.

Meeting others with OCD and not feeling so alone has also been very

helpful to our son, Steve. That is how we started attending the OCF

Conferences as living in an isolated rural area it was very

difficult to find even m.h. professionals who knew about OCD let

alone other sufferers who had been successfully treated.

Have you read the book, " Teaching the Tiger " by Marilyn Dornbusch?

That is aimed at giving ideas for accommodations for kids with ADHD,

TS and OCD. What kinds of accommodations does Chelle need and what

goals do you have for her education and social adjustment? The

answers to these questions can guide you in what to discuss at the

IEP. Good luck, take care, aloha, kathy (h)

kathyh@...

-- In @y..., " ppepe40 " <ppepe40@n...> wrote:

> Hi & Marlys,

>

> My name is Phyllis, and my almost 16-yr old daughter, Chelle

> has TS, OCD, & ADHD. Her name gets added to the list after

> and as a child who also has been in denial,

> doesn't want me to advocate for her in school, doesn't want

> E & RP therapy, and doesn't like me to talk about OCD because

> she says that makes it worse. She says she doesn't think

> about it unless I mention it. Of course, I see the behavior

> that results from it that she doesn't see.

>

> Do your kids have many friends; or, as Chelle, only one

> friend? She is slowly warming up to a couple of girls in

> her school, but they live about 1/2 hour away from us.

>

> Chelle takes meds, finally after many years, without a

> terrible struggle. The meds have helped tremendously with

> her symptoms, especially her TS tics. I'm not sure what to

> attribute it to, because she receives Dexedrine prior to

> coming home from school; but she is wiped out after school

> and sleeps sometimes until 7 or 8 o'clock. Needless to say,

> homework rarely gets done. She's very bright but failing

> school.

>

> We did have a major breakthrough last week. Chelle went to

> her first OCD support group for children and teens. There

> were 6 kids there including Chelle. This was the first time

> she met other kids who were diagnosed with OCD. They were

> just like other kids, except for a few noticable quirks.

> She got along well with them and said she wants to go back

> next week. I think she felt rather safe with them. This

> may give her some of the emotional security she needs with

> peers.

>

> I have found that school has been an extremely difficult

> place for her since 1st grade. Middle school was the worst

> you could imagine. She was teased and taunted

> unmercifully. Things are not quite so bad now that she's

> in 10th grade, but she's still considered a " problem child "

> and her teachers are not as supportive as she needs.

>

> Are your kids in the public schools? What kinds of

> accomodations do you have on their IEP's? Chelle's

> currently in an alternative school that is not working for

> her. We're looking for an approved private school for her

> to attend, but I don't know if that is the answer either. I

> want her to be able to experience as much of a normal teen

> time as possible, but I'm so concerned about her emotional

> health in the public school system. I absolutely cannot

> stand how our kids are treated by their peers, teachers, and

> the system.

>

> We have another IEP meeting coming up in about three weeks.

> Any one have any words of wisdom for me?

>

> Progress, not perfection

> Phyllis

> ppepe40@n...

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parentsofadultswithOCD-subscribe . You may subscribe to the

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Hi carolyn, nice to meet you! Id have to say for your

question on the line between ds and autism, that we

started noticeing my oldest nathan now 10yrs with ds,

autism, add/hd, and ocd, no longer really fit in the

ds catagories or growth and development around age two

, he started having horrible tantrums, that wet noodle

thing, uugh, biting hitting, head banging, little to

no eyecontact, eloping from anywhere even home and

school, very antisocial always parallel plays, mostly

still does, little to no speech, until he was around

4yrs the it was only echolalia, wchich he continues

today, but uses way more speech over this last year,

and has bee using sign and pecs very well since about

3yrs, also likes to rock --stertypical behavior or

repetive movements, and the dangling of toys mostly

shoe strings, but also anything dangly he could get

hands on, didnt play with toys appropriately does

some now, major sesory issues especially tactile, food

issues, and very little sleep. im sure i could go on,

and many of the parents on the list will have similair

lists. But i mainly think the line issue depends on

how the child is developing according to usual set

patterns and goals. again i like to welcome you to the

group, sorry its soo long, hope i didnt scare yo

away,lol, shawna, mom to nathan 10yrs, and nicholas 9yrs.

=====

shawna

__________________________________________________

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> Hi & Marlys,

>

> My name is Phyllis, and my almost 16-yr old daughter, Chelle

> has TS, OCD, & ADHD. Her name gets added to the list after

> and as a child who also has been in denial,

> doesn't want me to advocate for her in school, doesn't want

> E & RP therapy, and doesn't like me to talk about OCD because

> she says that makes it worse.

> Do your kids have many friends; or, as Chelle, only one

> friend? She is slowly warming up to a couple of girls in

> her school, but they live about 1/2 hour away from us.

>

Hi Phyllis,

I'm sorry I'm so late in replying to your questions. You asked about

friends. , age 16, has always been the type to have only one

or two good friends. When she was 12 (undiagnosed), I remarried,

moved her across the country, she hit puberty... and all H*** broke

loose as far as OCD, though I didn't understand what " it " was at the

time... Anyway, she didn't transition well at all, became depressed,

had SIB, and thoughts of suicide... very bad times back then. (My new

husband couldn't deal with us and moved out... and I had sold my house

and quit my job to move here to join him...sigh.) Anyway, she has

never been a " normal " teenager like I expected to have - you know the

type of girl who needs her phone time limited, dating limits set,

curfews, etc. I need to ENCOURAGE her to get out of her room, SET UP

social occasions for her. For a long time, it was hard for me to

accept and understand this, as it's so opposite of how I was as a

teenager. Now, she has one good friend, but she never calls her or

initiates any activity. If I suggest to have a friend over, she will

tell me that she doesn't HAVE any friends. But, then she refers to

the other kids in the marching band as a " family " of friends because

they spend so much time together (crazy-long rehearsals and many

competitions, incl. travel time) I volunteer with the band and have

ample opportunity to observe her, and she certainly gets along and

fits in fine... so I don't know if it's a problem or not that she

doesn't have many friends. It certainly concerns me. My counselor

reminds me that I am an extrovert and that is an introvert,

and that is the difference, but I don't know.

>She met other kids who were diagnosed with OCD. They were

> just like other kids, except for a few noticable quirks.

> She got along well with them and said she wants to go back

> next week. I think she felt rather safe with them. This

> may give her some of the emotional security she needs with

> peers.

How great that she met others with OCD!

> Are your kids in the public schools? What kinds of

> accomodations do you have on their IEP's?

is in the public school. Middle school was pretty horrible,

but that's when she was in undiagnosed depression. She started high

school on much better footing. School is still the major stressor in

her life, though. (She does well academically, but her emotional

health is a concern.) She is a perfectionist, and sets unreasonably

high standards for herself, then feels defeated when she can't attain

them, or gets overwhelmed in a large research project... sigh. In

addition, some teachers are more accepting and flexible than others.

Only a month ago, I overcame my fears, and her objections, and met

with her teachers and the school counselors for the first time.

Though I was terrified, it went fine. I have not yet pursued a 504

for her, but am considering it. (I've been very slow to figure this

all out, and advocate for her, so maybe things will get better for her

in school as I do MY job.)

> We have another IEP meeting coming up in about three weeks.

> Any one have any words of wisdom for me?

Im sorry that Chelle's school is not working out well for her. How

did the IEP meeting go? Thinking kind thoughts for you both.

Marlys in SC

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Dear Phyllis,

My son, , just turned 17 on Dec. 3 doesn't

socialize like he use to before the OCD was so strong.

Right now he has a very nice girl friend that he

enjoys spending the majority of his time with. His

OCD is pretty strong right now and he seems stressed a

lot. We are currently encountering another battle

with our school system. is a junior right now.

His last semester of his sophomore year, he was only

in school half day b/c of the severity of his OCD. He

failed three of the four classes he was in. 's

educational goals all are surrounded in the fishing

industry. Anyway, in a meeting at the end 's

sophomore year, the special ed director promised

if he passed all classes this term in his

Junior year they would make sure he did his vocational

training a local state run fish hatchery. Well,

guess what is passing all his classes, and our

wonderful school system is trying to back out of

's training at the fishery and sugar coat him

entering the landscaping/grounds program at the local

voc tech center. My advise to friends out there is to

make sure you get everything in writing. Good Luck.

--- mvistad@... wrote:

>

> > Hi & Marlys,

> >

> > My name is Phyllis, and my almost 16-yr old

> daughter, Chelle

> > has TS, OCD, & ADHD. Her name gets added to the

> list after

> > and as a child who also has been in

> denial,

> > doesn't want me to advocate for her in school,

> doesn't want

> > E & RP therapy, and doesn't like me to talk about

> OCD because

> > she says that makes it worse.

>

> > Do your kids have many friends; or, as Chelle,

> only one

> > friend? She is slowly warming up to a couple of

> girls in

> > her school, but they live about 1/2 hour away from

> us.

> >

>

> Hi Phyllis,

> I'm sorry I'm so late in replying to your questions.

> You asked about

> friends. , age 16, has always been the type

> to have only one

> or two good friends. When she was 12 (undiagnosed),

> I remarried,

> moved her across the country, she hit puberty... and

> all H*** broke

> loose as far as OCD, though I didn't understand what

> " it " was at the

> time... Anyway, she didn't transition well at all,

> became depressed,

> had SIB, and thoughts of suicide... very bad times

> back then. (My new

> husband couldn't deal with us and moved out... and I

> had sold my house

> and quit my job to move here to join him...sigh.)

> Anyway, she has

> never been a " normal " teenager like I expected to

> have - you know the

> type of girl who needs her phone time limited,

> dating limits set,

> curfews, etc. I need to ENCOURAGE her to get out of

> her room, SET UP

> social occasions for her. For a long time, it was

> hard for me to

> accept and understand this, as it's so opposite of

> how I was as a

> teenager. Now, she has one good friend, but she

> never calls her or

> initiates any activity. If I suggest to have a

> friend over, she will

> tell me that she doesn't HAVE any friends. But,

> then she refers to

> the other kids in the marching band as a " family " of

> friends because

> they spend so much time together (crazy-long

> rehearsals and many

> competitions, incl. travel time) I volunteer with

> the band and have

> ample opportunity to observe her, and she certainly

> gets along and

> fits in fine... so I don't know if it's a problem or

> not that she

> doesn't have many friends. It certainly concerns

> me. My counselor

> reminds me that I am an extrovert and that

> is an introvert,

> and that is the difference, but I don't know.

>

> >She met other kids who were diagnosed with OCD.

> They were

> > just like other kids, except for a few noticable

> quirks.

> > She got along well with them and said she wants to

> go back

> > next week. I think she felt rather safe with

> them. This

> > may give her some of the emotional security she

> needs with

> > peers.

>

> How great that she met others with OCD!

>

> > Are your kids in the public schools? What kinds

> of

> > accomodations do you have on their IEP's?

>

> is in the public school. Middle school was

> pretty horrible,

> but that's when she was in undiagnosed depression.

> She started high

> school on much better footing. School is still the

> major stressor in

> her life, though. (She does well academically, but

> her emotional

> health is a concern.) She is a perfectionist, and

> sets unreasonably

> high standards for herself, then feels defeated when

> she can't attain

> them, or gets overwhelmed in a large research

> project... sigh. In

> addition, some teachers are more accepting and

> flexible than others.

> Only a month ago, I overcame my fears, and her

> objections, and met

> with her teachers and the school counselors for the

> first time.

> Though I was terrified, it went fine. I have not

> yet pursued a 504

> for her, but am considering it. (I've been very slow

> to figure this

> all out, and advocate for her, so maybe things will

> get better for her

> in school as I do MY job.)

>

>

> > We have another IEP meeting coming up in about

> three weeks.

> > Any one have any words of wisdom for me?

>

> Im sorry that Chelle's school is not working out

> well for her. How

> did the IEP meeting go? Thinking kind thoughts for

> you both.

>

> Marlys in SC

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

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  • 4 weeks later...

I too will be watching for any advice on this matter,My son has the same

exact problems and I have tried everything.

New Member

> Hey guys:

>

> I have a couple I problem behaviors I could use some input on --

>

> 1 - Head banging (not repeatedly, he just bangs once when he gets mad.

>

> 2 - Feces smearing (we're working on toilet training, but not there yet)

>

> 3 - Spitting - he spits and smears it with his hand or foot

>

> 4 - Sleeping - Wakes up in the middle of the night alot and won't go back

to sleep

>

> Any advice or thoughts are appreciatied

>

> CJ (Mother of child diag. with PDD-NOS age 3 years)

>

>

>

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> Hey guys:

>

> I have a couple I problem behaviors I could use some input on --

>

> 1 - Head banging (not repeatedly, he just bangs once when he gets

mad.

>

> 2 - Feces smearing (we're working on toilet training, but not there

yet)

>

> 3 - Spitting - he spits and smears it with his hand or foot

>

> 4 - Sleeping - Wakes up in the middle of the night alot and won't

go back to sleep

>

> Any advice or thoughts are appreciatied

>

> CJ (Mother of child diag. with PDD-NOS age 3 years)

>

>

Self injury, stereotypies, screaming, and other unwanted behaviors

can all be forms of communication. They do not necessarily have to

serve a self-stimulatory function.

These behaviors can be the " equivalent " of a person saying, " Please

leave me alone right now....I want that....Pay attention to me, etc. "

In these cases, the response that another person makes will determine

if the behavior persists.

One child's feces smearing can occur for reasons that are completely

different from another child's. There is a case that a friend of

mine is working now that involves an older child who excretes in his

pants, grabs the feces in both his hands, and rams his head into a

wall. He has hit his head into walls so much that his skull is

soft. When the people who work with him try to prevent him from

hitting his head, he smears the feces, which he's been holding, on

them.

Another consideration is that these behaviors could be automatically

reinforcing [like scratching an itch or producing a desirable

sensation]. In these cases, the response that another person makes

could be irrelevant.

Lastly, the same behavior can serve multiple functions; like a baby's

cry. The crying might be because the baby wants food, wants to be

picked up, or because it has a safety pin stuck in its side, etc. If

a person tried to feed the baby when it had the safety pin stuck in

its side, the person wouldn't get too far in helping the baby. The

same is true for the feces smearer. If the child is doing it because

of the sensations produced, then taking away a toy or sending the

child to time-out is not likely to solve the problem. Knowing why

the behaviors are occurring is the best chance to solving the problem.

The way to determine the function of the behavior is to conduct a FBA

(Functional Behavioral Analysis).

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Crystal,

Is your son in school or getting some type of services. It sounds

like something is going on if youre working on toliet training. Head

banging could be a result of not being able to communicate properly,

im not sure what communication system your son uses-verbal or pecs. I

think the feces smearing passes, we went through that. Im not sure

what we did, if anything. I cant give much advice on this one. a lot

of stuff with spitting and smearing I believe is sensory, how the

person reacts to their environment. Sometimes you can find a

replacement behavior-like finger painting or something that might

give the same input as the spitting or smearing. My son's first

speech teacher told us to teach our son to paint because he did a lot

of hand flapping and made a lot of circular movements with his hands.

Now he likes to color a lot, and the hand flapping is history. Sleep

is also a big issue, some people have tried to use behavioral

methods, but, i think a lot of people use melotonin or a medication

to aid in sleep. That is something that should be discussed with a

MD, a neurologist who knows the more medical aspects of autism.

Thea

> Hey guys:

>

> I have a couple I problem behaviors I could use some input on --

>

> 1 - Head banging (not repeatedly, he just bangs once when he gets

mad.

>

> 2 - Feces smearing (we're working on toilet training, but not there

yet)

>

> 3 - Spitting - he spits and smears it with his hand or foot

>

> 4 - Sleeping - Wakes up in the middle of the night alot and won't

go back to sleep

>

> Any advice or thoughts are appreciatied

>

> CJ (Mother of child diag. with PDD-NOS age 3 years)

>

>

>

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Crystal,

Is your son in school or getting some type of services. It sounds

like something is going on if youre working on toliet training. Head

banging could be a result of not being able to communicate properly,

im not sure what communication system your son uses-verbal or pecs. I

think the feces smearing passes, we went through that. Im not sure

what we did, if anything. I cant give much advice on this one. a lot

of stuff with spitting and smearing I believe is sensory, how the

person reacts to their environment. Sometimes you can find a

replacement behavior-like finger painting or something that might

give the same input as the spitting or smearing. My son's first

speech teacher told us to teach our son to paint because he did a lot

of hand flapping and made a lot of circular movements with his hands.

Now he likes to color a lot, and the hand flapping is history. Sleep

is also a big issue, some people have tried to use behavioral

methods, but, i think a lot of people use melotonin or a medication

to aid in sleep. That is something that should be discussed with a

MD, a neurologist who knows the more medical aspects of autism.

Thea

> Hey guys:

>

> I have a couple I problem behaviors I could use some input on --

>

> 1 - Head banging (not repeatedly, he just bangs once when he gets

mad.

>

> 2 - Feces smearing (we're working on toilet training, but not there

yet)

>

> 3 - Spitting - he spits and smears it with his hand or foot

>

> 4 - Sleeping - Wakes up in the middle of the night alot and won't

go back to sleep

>

> Any advice or thoughts are appreciatied

>

> CJ (Mother of child diag. with PDD-NOS age 3 years)

>

>

>

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Hi, Crystal.

1: Head banging is not uncommon. I don't know how old your son is right

now (was he diagnosed at 3, or is he 3 now?), but behavior management can

help teach him appropriate ways to express his anger/frustration. Do you

have anyone in your area who does behavior management? It'd definitely be

worth looking into.

2: Feces smearing may be a sensory issue. Look at it with the ABC

approach: A: antecedent (what happens before it happens); B: behavior

(feces smearing); C: consequence (what does he get out of it -- is he trying

to get it off of him, which is what my daughter does, or does he just like

the feel -- maybe finger-painting would address that?).

3: Spitting -- maybe another sensory issue? Maybe an exploration of " gee,

when I do this stuff comes out of my mouth, and it's warm and wet, and I can

rub it? " Sensory integration therapy by an O.T. will help you determine

this, and come up with more appropriate ways to achieve the same result.

4: Sleeping: There's a book about what to do when your child won't sleep.

There's all sorts of suggestions in it. We, however, have tried every

single, solitary thing under the world, short of anesthesia, to get our

daughter to go to sleep. Once she's asleep, she's fine, it's just getting

her there. You might want to look at your son's bedtime routine -- maybe

he's so attached to it that he can't go back to sleep w/o it. In addition,

you might want to look at how long he's slept before he wakes up. There are

so many things that can cause it. With Shelby, when she wakes up after

sleeping, she knows that when you wake up you're supposed to get up. So,

sometimes she's up at 4 in the morning, dressed and ready to go. And,

sometimes at 1 in the afternoon we're making her get up to start her day.

Behavior management will help you get to the bottom of it and address it

effectively.

I hope I've helped. These are all things we've gone through (except the head

banging) and we've addressed them appropriately. You can too!

Missy in Md.

Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 13:01:10 -0600

From: " crystal " <crystal411@...>

Subject: New Member

Hey guys:

I have a couple I problem behaviors I could use some input on --

1 - Head banging (not repeatedly, he just bangs once when he gets mad.

2 - Feces smearing (we're working on toilet training, but not there yet)

3 - Spitting - he spits and smears it with his hand or foot

4 - Sleeping - Wakes up in the middle of the night alot and won't go back to

sleep

Any advice or thoughts are appreciatied

CJ (Mother of child diag. with PDD-NOS age 3 years)

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Hi Crystal,

Our ASD daughter's similar behaviors were eliminated safely with dietary

intervantion, safe pharmeseuticals, and ABA. This is a disease process, and

many times these kids are not feeling well, and cannot express it.

see <A HREF= " www.neuroimmune.com " >www.neuroimmunedr.com</A>

Tina M. Hendrix

Cure2000@...

Vice-President, California Coalition

Neuro-Immune Dysfunction Syndromes

Autism Spectrum Disorder, ADD/ADHD, Learning Disorders, Hyperactivity, CFS,

etc.

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  • 2 weeks later...

On 1/8/02 at 10:47 AM " JBerger431@... " <JBerger431@...> wrote:

>I am never without them now, except at the moment I ran out

>and they are on vacation, which is making me crazy.

They are back.

@(~~~>~~~ K. ~~~<~~~)@

<mailto:im4rotts@...>

Web Page Design <www.stoneforts.com/design.htm>

Stone Fort Rottweilers <www.stoneforts.com/>

List Owner: K9Nutrition, K9KidneyDiet, RawPetsFoodSaver,

CalypsoMail & Moderator: NaturalCat

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Hi,

I've not tried to sprout millet but I'm interested. Let us know how it

works and maybe I'll try it.

>Hello everyone: I am not sure if I have introduced my self before or not,

>but I do have something I want to share with you. I have always loved eating

>sprouts and never had any luck sprouting them until I started sprouting for

>my birds. I am a breeder of parrotlets and red bellied parrots and canaries.

>My birds love sprouts and I found the online many months ago and

>began to buy the birdie seeds to sprout. I am never without them now, except

>at the moment I ran out and they are on vacation, which is making me crazy.

>LOL. If you are interested in exotic birds please visit my website

>http://www.ushwy1.com/jberger and read the birdie story Feather Tale. The

>pictures are of one of the baby parrotlets who I raised on the

>sprouts. Just thought there may be some birdie lovers on this list and

>wanted to share that with you.

>I enjoy all your interesting comments regarding sprouting and hope to soon

>have time to sprout for myself. I usually have two sprouters going but with

>bird seed.

>At this time I am trying to sprout spray millet. I hope it soon does

>something. Has anyone ever tried that?

>JB

>Laurel Run Bird Farm (NJ)

>

>

>

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi All,

I am a new member to this group having joined a few weeks ago and I must say

I have learned some very interesting things. My name is Jane Caleo and I

live on an exotic fruit farm about 1 hrs north of Townsville, North

Queensland, Australia. We grow mainly fruit that is grown in asia such as

lychees, rambutan, carambolas, and many more too numerous to list. I am 40

y.o. with 2 children, my daughter Pamela is 18 and is a 2nd year medical

student and my son Tom is 13 he is in his 2nd year of high school, oh and I

do own a husband his name is Ian. I make vegetable oil soaps and lip gloss

but I am very interested in cosmetics hence the reason I joined this group.

I am sure that I will learn much and look forward to being an active member.

Many thanks Cheers JaneE

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Hi Ann,

Welcome Ann. I think we met in Bournemouth. I trained with

ell.

-- In @y..., ann strange <anniewales2002@y...> wrote:

> Good to be connected at last,have been H.visiting in Wales for

13yrs.have a Centre committee of 12 in Gwent,all very motivated.Huge

concerns re.NMC order,wonder about future of H.visiting.Enjoyed

networking at Bournemouth.Ann Strange.

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

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Welcome Jane! I am very new to this list as well, and can't believe the amount

I am learning. Everyone has been quite helpfull and I really appreciate the

time they take to answer my sometimes stupid questions! I am into lotions, bath

items... I would really like to get into the soaping aspect also, but just don't

have the time or money right now. Just something else to look forward to!

Leanna in Alberta, Canada.

>

>

>

>

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Hello Jane and welcome.

As you are toasty warm whilst we are shivering here in North America, do send a

little warmth our way!

Barb D.

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------

From: " Ian Caleo " <iancaleo@...>

Reply-

Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 15:15:04 +1000

><html><body>

>

>

><tt>

>Hi All,<BR>

>I am a new member to this group having joined a few weeks ago and I must

say<BR>

>I have learned some very interesting things.  My name is Jane Caleo and I<BR>

>live on an exotic fruit farm about 1 hrs north of Townsville, North<BR>

>Queensland, Australia. We grow mainly fruit that is grown in asia such as<BR>

>lychees, rambutan, carambolas, and many more too numerous to list.  I am 40<BR>

>y.o. with 2 children, my daughter Pamela is 18 and is a 2nd year medical<BR>

>student and my son Tom is 13 he is in his 2nd year of high school, oh and 

I<BR>

>do own a husband his name is Ian. I make vegetable oil soaps and lip gloss<BR>

>but I am very interested in cosmetics hence the reason I joined this group.<BR>

>I am sure that I will learn much and look forward to being an active

member.<BR>

>Many thanks  Cheers  JaneE<BR>

><BR>

></tt>

>

><br>

>

><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

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>

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Hi & Barb,

Many thanks for your welcome, tis very hot here lately has been anything up

to 37c but now were down to about 32c which is much easier to live with

(sorry don't know the temps in F). While we sit here in the heat with our

air conditioners you guys have your heaters on and are battling the snow,

sounds great but would be difficult for us north queenslanders I think we

spend more time outside than in!! My Aunt and her husband live in Lakewood

California, have been to the west about 3 times and just love it there could

easily live in california - as long as I didn't have to work!!

I have not made any creams as yet but I am very interested in doing

so. Mainly facial moisturizers (which I am at present gathering all the

ingredience for - must be vegetable based - if possible) and also balms and

in particular ones used in winter.(which you guys should know all about) Our

winter is around June to August and we get to about 24c during the day and

when it is really cold at night down to 6c but mostly around 12c. So

therefore this is when we suffer mostly from colds, the flu, etc so

therefore I am wanting to make balms that are similar to vicks or tiger balm

(which I have the recipe for but not vicks) breathe easy balms which are not

petroleum based. Anyway other than that anything along those lines.

I make vegetable soaps and my base oils are Olive, Palm, Coconut, secondary

oils are soybean, sunflower, macadamia, canola, corn, almond, cocoa butter,

etc etc.and then I mainly fragrance them with EO I prefer them over FO as I

find FO get a bit sickly after a while.

By the way are there any others on this list from Australia? My husband is

going to be really amused when I tell him his name comes up on the list - is

his computer and even though the messages come from my email they for some

reason always go back to his email before sending. Cheers for now JaneE

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Welcome Bev: good to hear about your work. I suspect there will be otehrs with

similar roles that would like to share. Interestingly, we were speaking in

aresearch meeting earlier today, for the desperate need for some robusr

information exactly what the 'base line' is from which health visitors need to

change. We all have an idea in our minds about what health visitors are doing

(whether we think it sterile or not) but there is no research. I think the same

is true for school nurses as well. Best wishes

bev.henderson@... wrote:

> Hello all.

>

> My name is Beverley and I am employed as Public Health Nurse at

Rotherham HA (to be Rotherham PCT from April).

>

> My background is a midwife, but I have been working in management, training

and commissioning for some time now. I worked for Sheffield Health Authority as

a health promotion specialist, eventually doing a lot of children's and

nursing/midwifery policy work (more than the health promotion). I went on the

Trent non-medical public health specialist training, worked as D/Dir Health

promotion here before getting the PHN post. I have a post-grad dip in HP, adult

ed qualification and am almost completed my Masters in Public Health. I am

currently on the National Public Health Leadership programme.

>

> I would describe myself as a primary care focused public health specialist. My

post involves developing and leading the public health nursing function and I

have done quite a bit of work this year on influencing my medical colleagues

about the necessity of developing a joined up public health workforce with

public health practitioners as a valued and integrated part and partnership key

to reducing inequalities and improving health. An uphill struggle initially, but

I am winning the argument. I am passionate that public health can only function

effectively if it reclaims the vision that improving health starts with people,

families and communities (rather than statistics and policy). I see primary care

and nurses as key to this. Health visitors were central to public health and

must be again, if public health is going to turn itself round from the very

sterile route it took.

>

> Like to here from other who are in a similar role (or rant along similar

lines!).

>

> If there are plans to get this rolling study day/conference programme going I

would be very happy to participate. I have contacted colleagues in the region to

see if they are interested in hosting something here.

>

> All the best.

>

> Bev

>

>

>

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Is that something that we should ask Kate Billingham et al to put

to the policy research programme, the rationale being that there

was a review of the effectiveness of home visiting commissioned as

a priority topic under the HTA, but that there has been no survey of

what HVs actually do? A precedent would be the census of

practice nurses which York did.

From: Cowley <sarah@...>

Date sent: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:05:13 +0000

Subject: Re: New member

Send reply to:

[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]

Welcome Bev: good to hear about your work. I suspect there will be otehrs with

similar roles that would like to share. Interestingly, we were speaking in

aresearch meeting earlier today, for the desperate need for some robusr

information exactly what the 'base line' is from which health

visitors need to change. We all have an idea in our minds about what health

visitors are doing (whether we think it sterile or not) but there is no

research. I think the same is true for school nurses as well. Best wishes

bev.henderson@... wrote:

> Hello all.

>

> My name is Beverley and I am employed as Public Health Nurse at

Rotherham HA (to be Rotherham PCT from April).

>

> My background is a midwife, but I have been working in management, training

and commissioning for some time now. I worked for Sheffield Health Authority as

a

health promotion specialist, eventuall

y doing a lot of children's and nursing/midwifery policy work (more than the

health promotion). I w

ent on the Trent non-medical public health specialist training, worked as D/Dir

Health promotion he

re before getting the PHN post. I have a post-grad dip in HP, adult ed

qualification and am almost

completed my Masters in Public Health. I am currently on the National Public

Health Leadership prog

ramme.

>

> I would describe myself as a primary care focused public health specialist. My

post involves deve

loping and leading the public health nursing function and I have done quite a

bit of work this year

on influencing my medical colleagues about the necessity of developing a joined

up public health w

orkforce with public health practitioners as a valued and integrated part and

partnership key to re

ducing inequalities and improving health. An uphill struggle initially, but I am

winning the argume

nt. I am passionate that public health can only function effectively if it

reclaims the vision that

improving health starts with people, families and communities (rather than

statistics and policy).

I see primary care and nurses as key to this. Health visitors were central to

public health and mu

st be again, if public health is going to turn itself round from the very

sterile route it took.

>

> Like to here from other who are in a similar role (or rant along similar

lines!).

>

> If there are plans to get this rolling study day/conference programme going I

would be very happy

to participate. I have contacted colleagues in the region to see if they are

interested in hosting

something here.

>

> All the best.

>

> Bev

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Hello Liz. Yes, it probably is. I did try, a year or two ago, to interest the

nursing division in funding a survey of health visitors to provide a baseline

from which changes could be evaluated but, at that time the response was that

they were not interested in what was happening now; only

what would happen in the future (scary basis for change, I think). London

Region simply stated that it was not a priority for them. However, having

thought about it again, and decided it still seems relevant, perhaps I do need

to put my mind to looking for funding again. Best wishes

MEERABEAU ELIZABETH wrote:

> Is that something that we should ask Kate Billingham et al to put

> to the policy research programme, the rationale being that there

> was a review of the effectiveness of home visiting commissioned as

> a priority topic under the HTA, but that there has been no survey of

> what HVs actually do? A precedent would be the census of

> practice nurses which York did.

>

>

> From: Cowley <sarah@...>

> Date sent: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:05:13 +0000

> Subject: Re: New member

> Send reply to:

>

> [ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]

>

> Welcome Bev: good to hear about your work. I suspect there will be otehrs

with similar roles that would like to share. Interestingly, we were speaking in

aresearch meeting earlier today, for the desperate need for some robusr

information exactly what the 'base line' is from which health

> visitors need to change. We all have an idea in our minds about what health

visitors are doing (whether we think it sterile or not) but there is no

research. I think the same is true for school nurses as well. Best wishes

>

>

>

> bev.henderson@... wrote:

>

> > Hello all.

> >

> > My name is Beverley and I am employed as Public Health Nurse at

Rotherham HA (to be Rotherham PCT from April).

> >

> > My background is a midwife, but I have been working in management, training

and commissioning for some time now. I worked for Sheffield Health Authority as

a

> health promotion specialist, eventuall

> y doing a lot of children's and nursing/midwifery policy work (more than the

health promotion). I w

> ent on the Trent non-medical public health specialist training, worked as

D/Dir Health promotion he

> re before getting the PHN post. I have a post-grad dip in HP, adult ed

qualification and am almost

> completed my Masters in Public Health. I am currently on the National Public

Health Leadership prog

> ramme.

> >

> > I would describe myself as a primary care focused public health specialist.

My post involves deve

> loping and leading the public health nursing function and I have done quite a

bit of work this year

> on influencing my medical colleagues about the necessity of developing a

joined up public health w

> orkforce with public health practitioners as a valued and integrated part and

partnership key to re

> ducing inequalities and improving health. An uphill struggle initially, but I

am winning the argume

> nt. I am passionate that public health can only function effectively if it

reclaims the vision that

> improving health starts with people, families and communities (rather than

statistics and policy).

> I see primary care and nurses as key to this. Health visitors were central to

public health and mu

> st be again, if public health is going to turn itself round from the very

sterile route it took.

> >

> > Like to here from other who are in a similar role (or rant along similar

lines!).

> >

> > If there are plans to get this rolling study day/conference programme going

I would be very happy

> to participate. I have contacted colleagues in the region to see if they are

interested in hosting

> something here.

> >

> > All the best.

> >

> > Bev

> >

> >

> >

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I am going to a regional meeting on 26th Feb to discuss widening the HDA skills

audit pilot in this area. We've done a bit of work on school nurses through the

Innovations project, but very little on HVs. This was done in other sites. Have

you seen these reports on the HDA website?

I am in the process of evaluating a HNA training programme we ran last year in

South Yorks Coalfields as a pilot in partnership with SYETC (as it was then)and

Sheffield University to look at running short, issue-based, local, experiential,

multidisicplinary PH skills development courses. One thing which is very clear

is the low skills and confidence baseline. Given this is unlikely to be a

representative sample (likely to be heavy in early adopters rather than the

mainstream) this is a concern. Harvey-Jordan did a training needs

assessment for SYETC that this programme was based on. I'd be happy to share

this with you if you wish.

Are you going to one of the workshops being run by Healthworks on devloping

national occupational standards for public health practitioners (in parallel to

the work being done for public health specialists). I will be interested to see

how this links with the UKCC/NMC competencies and if a baseline assessment is

being done. The Yorkshire regional workshop for this work is in Leeds on 7th

Feb.

All the best.

Bev

Re: New member

Welcome Bev: good to hear about your work. I suspect there will be otehrs with

similar roles that would like to share. Interestingly, we were speaking in

aresearch meeting earlier today, for the desperate need for some robusr

information exactly what the 'base line' is from which health visitors need to

change. We all have an idea in our minds about what health visitors are doing

(whether we think it sterile or not) but there is no research. I think the same

is true for school nurses as well. Best wishes

bev.henderson@... wrote:

> Hello all.

>

> My name is Beverley and I am employed as Public Health Nurse at

Rotherham HA (to be Rotherham PCT from April).

>

> My background is a midwife, but I have been working in management, training

and commissioning for some time now. I worked for Sheffield Health Authority as

a health promotion specialist, eventually doing a lot of children's and

nursing/midwifery policy work (more than the health promotion). I went on the

Trent non-medical public health specialist training, worked as D/Dir Health

promotion here before getting the PHN post. I have a post-grad dip in HP, adult

ed qualification and am almost completed my Masters in Public Health. I am

currently on the National Public Health Leadership programme.

>

> I would describe myself as a primary care focused public health specialist. My

post involves developing and leading the public health nursing function and I

have done quite a bit of work this year on influencing my medical colleagues

about the necessity of developing a joined up public health workforce with

public health practitioners as a valued and integrated part and partnership key

to reducing inequalities and improving health. An uphill struggle initially, but

I am winning the argument. I am passionate that public health can only function

effectively if it reclaims the vision that improving health starts with people,

families and communities (rather than statistics and policy). I see primary care

and nurses as key to this. Health visitors were central to public health and

must be again, if public health is going to turn itself round from the very

sterile route it took.

>

> Like to here from other who are in a similar role (or rant along similar

lines!).

>

> If there are plans to get this rolling study day/conference programme going I

would be very happy to participate. I have contacted colleagues in the region to

see if they are interested in hosting something here.

>

> All the best.

>

> Bev

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Yes of course, I now remember you mentioning that. I wonder

whether the climate may be changing with the announcement of

some new research funding before Xmas. Happy to help construct

something on policy relevance etc if you like.

From: Cowley <sarah@...>

Date sent: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:39:08 +0000

Subject: Re: New member

Send reply to:

[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]

Hello Liz. Yes, it probably is. I did try, a year or two ago, to interest the

nursing division in funding a survey of health visitors to provide a baseline

from which changes could be evaluated but, at that time the response was that

they were not interested in what was happening now; only

what would happen in the future (scary basis for change, I think). London

Region simply stated that it was not a priority for them. However, having

thought about it again, and decided it still seems relevant, perhaps I do need

to put my mind to looking for funding again. Best wishes

MEERABEAU ELIZABETH wrote:

> Is that something that we should ask Kate Billingham et al to put

> to the policy research programme, the rationale being that there

> was a review of the effectiveness of home visiting commissioned as

> a priority topic under the HTA, but that there has been no survey of

> what HVs actually do? A precedent would be the census of

> practice nurses which York did.

>

>

> From: Cowley <sarah@...>

> Date sent: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:05:13 +0000

> Subject: Re: New member

> Send reply to:

>

> [ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]

>

> Welcome Bev: good to hear about your work. I suspect there will be otehrs

with similar roles th

at would like to share. Interestingly, we were speaking in aresearch meeting

earlier today, for th

e desperate need for some robusr information exactly what the 'base line' is

from which health

> visitors need to change. We all have an idea in our minds about what health

visitors are doing (

whether we think it sterile or not) but there is no research. I think the same

is true for school

nurses as well. Best wishes

>

>

>

> bev.henderson@... wrote:

>

> > Hello all.

> >

> > My name is Beverley and I am employed as Public Health Nurse at

Rotherham HA (to be R

otherham PCT from April).

> >

> > My background is a midwife, but I have been working in management, training

and commissioning f

or some time now. I worked for Sheffield Health Authority as a

> health promotion specialist, eventuall

> y doing a lot of children's and nursing/midwifery policy work (more than the

health promotion). I

w

> ent on the Trent non-medical public health specialist training, worked as

D/Dir Health promotion

he

> re before getting the PHN post. I have a post-grad dip in HP, adult ed

qualification and am almos

t

> completed my Masters in Public Health. I am currently on the National Public

Health Leadership pr

og

> ramme.

> >

> > I would describe myself as a primary care focused public health specialist.

My post involves de

ve

> loping and leading the public health nursing function and I have done quite a

bit of work this ye

ar

> on influencing my medical colleagues about the necessity of developing a

joined up public health

w

> orkforce with public health practitioners as a valued and integrated part and

partnership key to

re

> ducing inequalities and improving health. An uphill struggle initially, but I

am winning the argu

me

> nt. I am passionate that public health can only function effectively if it

reclaims the vision th

at

> improving health starts with people, families and communities (rather than

statistics and policy

).

> I see primary care and nurses as key to this. Health visitors were central to

public health and

mu

> st be again, if public health is going to turn itself round from the very

sterile route it took.

> >

> > Like to here from other who are in a similar role (or rant along similar

lines!).

> >

> > If there are plans to get this rolling study day/conference programme going

I would be very hap

py

> to participate. I have contacted colleagues in the region to see if they are

interested in hosti

ng

> something here.

> >

> > All the best.

> >

> > Bev

> >

> >

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that is a very good idea. It is highly unlikely that any of us will have

the capacity to undertake this piece of work with a sufficiently wide sample to

claim external validity given the variabilty of practice from area to area.

Bev

Re: New member

Send reply to:

[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]

Welcome Bev: good to hear about your work. I suspect there will be otehrs with

similar roles that would like to share. Interestingly, we were speaking in

aresearch meeting earlier today, for the desperate need for some robusr

information exactly what the 'base line' is from which health

visitors need to change. We all have an idea in our minds about what health

visitors are doing (whether we think it sterile or not) but there is no

research. I think the same is true for school nurses as well. Best wishes

bev.henderson@... wrote:

> Hello all.

>

> My name is Beverley and I am employed as Public Health Nurse at

Rotherham HA (to be Rotherham PCT from April).

>

> My background is a midwife, but I have been working in management, training

and commissioning for some time now. I worked for Sheffield Health Authority as

a

health promotion specialist, eventuall

y doing a lot of children's and nursing/midwifery policy work (more than the

health promotion). I w

ent on the Trent non-medical public health specialist training, worked as D/Dir

Health promotion he

re before getting the PHN post. I have a post-grad dip in HP, adult ed

qualification and am almost

completed my Masters in Public Health. I am currently on the National Public

Health Leadership prog

ramme.

>

> I would describe myself as a primary care focused public health specialist. My

post involves deve

loping and leading the public health nursing function and I have done quite a

bit of work this year

on influencing my medical colleagues about the necessity of developing a joined

up public health w

orkforce with public health practitioners as a valued and integrated part and

partnership key to re

ducing inequalities and improving health. An uphill struggle initially, but I am

winning the argume

nt. I am passionate that public health can only function effectively if it

reclaims the vision that

improving health starts with people, families and communities (rather than

statistics and policy).

I see primary care and nurses as key to this. Health visitors were central to

public health and mu

st be again, if public health is going to turn itself round from the very

sterile route it took.

>

> Like to here from other who are in a similar role (or rant along similar

lines!).

>

> If there are plans to get this rolling study day/conference programme going I

would be very happy

to participate. I have contacted colleagues in the region to see if they are

interested in hosting

something here.

>

> All the best.

>

> Bev

>

>

>

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