Re: Does EDTA chelate mycotoxin?; PhosChol?

[Guest guest]

Jay,

In my experience, the combination of E-lyte Cal/Mag Butyrate (a few

capsules taken with food), and E-lyte Phosphotidylcholine (as a

liver flush - oral liquid at night), seems to clear alot of mold-

related toxins from the gall bladder and liver. I take them without

any other supplements except trace minerals, after a strong

exposure, and I can feel the difference. They may also scrub and

pull some stuff out of other places.

They definitely help alleviate symptoms in my kids on very moldy

days. These are not drugs, so they work more slowly and gently. The

first is made from butter, and the second from soy oil, but you can

also get it in organic eggs although food sources are more diluted.

PhosChol (Lipostabil)is also available in IV form, but I've never

tried that, but some say it helps with mold toxicity.

Kate

-- In , " Jeff May " <jeff@m...> wrote:

>

> Jay,

>

> The simple answer to your question is not at all.

>

> There are dozens of known mycotoxins, all very much larger than

single,

> charged metal atoms (ions), and few are charged; in other words,

they are

> neutral.

>

> The molecular structure of EDTA is highly specific and it ONLY

chelates

> charged metal atoms (metal ions). The molecule is quite small

compared to a

> mycotoxin molecule, and grabs ions in a claw-like cage.

>

> And that's it.

>

> All mycotoxins are MUCH larger than water molecules and mycotoxins

cannot

> penetrate anything the way water molecules can.

>

> C. May, M.A. organic chemistry

> May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

> 1522 Cambridge Street

> Cambridge, MA 02139

> 617-354-1055

> www.mayindoorair.com

> www.myhouseiskillingme.com

>

>

>

>

> From: jay krishnaa <jkrishnaa@y...>

> Subject: Re: Does EDTA chelation address mold/mycotoxin illness by

any

> chance ?

>

> Hi Loni,

>

> My original question was whether EDTA removes mycotoxin as well

as heavy

> metals. So, which chelators is your environmental doc thinks that

chelate

> mycotoxins ?

>

> Thanks

> Jay

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Kate,

Good to see you here. Yes, I am aware of the Kane Protocol for removing

biotoxins. My son does well on lecithin, but I haven't found a way to give him

the Phoschol. I am looking forward to using CSM with Dr.Shoemaker's help as I

believe this is more effective and I needed to get those mycotoxins out of my

son yesterday !

My friend uses IV Phoschol with her sons and herself and sees tremendous

improvement also. I will definitely look into it down the road if CSM fails to

work for some reason.

Thanks

Jay

urbanpinetrees3 <urbanpinetrees3@...> wrote:

Jay,

In my experience, the combination of E-lyte Cal/Mag Butyrate (a few

capsules taken with food), and E-lyte Phosphotidylcholine (as a

liver flush - oral liquid at night), seems to clear alot of mold-

related toxins from the gall bladder and liver. I take them without

any other supplements except trace minerals, after a strong

exposure, and I can feel the difference. They may also scrub and

pull some stuff out of other places.

They definitely help alleviate symptoms in my kids on very moldy

days. These are not drugs, so they work more slowly and gently. The

first is made from butter, and the second from soy oil, but you can

also get it in organic eggs although food sources are more diluted.

PhosChol (Lipostabil)is also available in IV form, but I've never

tried that, but some say it helps with mold toxicity.

Kate

-- In , " Jeff May " <jeff@m...> wrote:

>

> Jay,

>

> The simple answer to your question is not at all.

>

> There are dozens of known mycotoxins, all very much larger than

single,

> charged metal atoms (ions), and few are charged; in other words,

they are

> neutral.

>

> The molecular structure of EDTA is highly specific and it ONLY

chelates

> charged metal atoms (metal ions). The molecule is quite small

compared to a

> mycotoxin molecule, and grabs ions in a claw-like cage.

>

> And that's it.

>

> All mycotoxins are MUCH larger than water molecules and mycotoxins

cannot

> penetrate anything the way water molecules can.

>

> C. May, M.A. organic chemistry

> May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

> 1522 Cambridge Street

> Cambridge, MA 02139

> 617-354-1055

> www.mayindoorair.com

> www.myhouseiskillingme.com

>

>

>

>

> From: jay krishnaa <jkrishnaa@y...>

> Subject: Re: Does EDTA chelation address mold/mycotoxin illness by

any

> chance ?

>

> Hi Loni,

>

> My original question was whether EDTA removes mycotoxin as well

as heavy

> metals. So, which chelators is your environmental doc thinks that

chelate

> mycotoxins ?

>

> Thanks

> Jay

>

FAIR USE NOTICE:

[Guest guest]

I'm not aware of this Kane Protocol. How would I find more out? LOni

jay krishnaa <jkrishnaa@...> wrote:

Hi Kate,

Good to see you here. Yes, I am aware of the Kane Protocol for removing

biotoxins. My son does well on lecithin, but I haven't found a way to give him

the Phoschol. I am looking forward to using CSM with Dr.Shoemaker's help as I

believe this is more effective and I needed to get those mycotoxins out of my

son yesterday !

My friend uses IV Phoschol with her sons and herself and sees tremendous

improvement also. I will definitely look into it down the road if CSM fails to

work for some reason.

Thanks

Jay

urbanpinetrees3 <urbanpinetrees3@...> wrote:

Jay,

In my experience, the combination of E-lyte Cal/Mag Butyrate (a few

capsules taken with food), and E-lyte Phosphotidylcholine (as a

liver flush - oral liquid at night), seems to clear alot of mold-

related toxins from the gall bladder and liver. I take them without

any other supplements except trace minerals, after a strong

exposure, and I can feel the difference. They may also scrub and

pull some stuff out of other places.

They definitely help alleviate symptoms in my kids on very moldy

days. These are not drugs, so they work more slowly and gently. The

first is made from butter, and the second from soy oil, but you can

also get it in organic eggs although food sources are more diluted.

PhosChol (Lipostabil)is also available in IV form, but I've never

tried that, but some say it helps with mold toxicity.

Kate

-- In , " Jeff May " <jeff@m...> wrote:

>

> Jay,

>

> The simple answer to your question is not at all.

>

> There are dozens of known mycotoxins, all very much larger than

single,

> charged metal atoms (ions), and few are charged; in other words,

they are

> neutral.

>

> The molecular structure of EDTA is highly specific and it ONLY

chelates

> charged metal atoms (metal ions). The molecule is quite small

compared to a

> mycotoxin molecule, and grabs ions in a claw-like cage.

>

> And that's it.

>

> All mycotoxins are MUCH larger than water molecules and mycotoxins

cannot

> penetrate anything the way water molecules can.

>

> C. May, M.A. organic chemistry

> May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

> 1522 Cambridge Street

> Cambridge, MA 02139

> 617-354-1055

> www.mayindoorair.com

> www.myhouseiskillingme.com

>

>

>

>

> From: jay krishnaa <jkrishnaa@y...>

> Subject: Re: Does EDTA chelation address mold/mycotoxin illness by

any

> chance ?

>

> Hi Loni,

>

> My original question was whether EDTA removes mycotoxin as well

as heavy

> metals. So, which chelators is your environmental doc thinks that

chelate

> mycotoxins ?

>

> Thanks

> Jay

>

FAIR USE NOTICE:

[Guest guest]

Jay,

Interesting about your friend. Are they seeking treatment for mold

toxicity or some other neurotoxicity?

Did you know the formula for PhosChol has just been changed a bit to

make it more effective and better tolerated? We can tell a

difference, especially my kids who are very sensitive.

I wish you the best with the Dr. Shoemaker visit(s).

Kate

> >

> > Jay,

> >

> > The simple answer to your question is not at all.

> >

> > There are dozens of known mycotoxins, all very much larger than

> single,

> > charged metal atoms (ions), and few are charged; in other words,

> they are

> > neutral.

> >

> > The molecular structure of EDTA is highly specific and it ONLY

> chelates

> > charged metal atoms (metal ions). The molecule is quite small

> compared to a

> > mycotoxin molecule, and grabs ions in a claw-like cage.

> >

> > And that's it.

> >

> > All mycotoxins are MUCH larger than water molecules and

mycotoxins

> cannot

> > penetrate anything the way water molecules can.

> >

> > C. May, M.A. organic chemistry

> > May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

> > 1522 Cambridge Street

> > Cambridge, MA 02139

> > 617-354-1055

> > www.mayindoorair.com

> > www.myhouseiskillingme.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: jay krishnaa <jkrishnaa@y...>

> > Subject: Re: Does EDTA chelation address mold/mycotoxin illness

by

> any

> > chance ?

> >

> > Hi Loni,

> >

> > My original question was whether EDTA removes mycotoxin as well

> as heavy

> > metals. So, which chelators is your environmental doc thinks

that

> chelate

> > mycotoxins ?

> >

> > Thanks

> > Jay

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Loni,

Here is a link. http://www.detoxxbook.com/

If you want to know if there is a doctor in your area who has

attended continuing education on this protocol, you can call Body

Bio corporation. An environmental doctor who had this training

brought this program to my attention. It is for neurotoxic illness

including mold-related stuff.

Best,

Kathy

> >

> > Jay,

> >

> > The simple answer to your question is not at all.

> >

> > There are dozens of known mycotoxins, all very much larger than

> single,

> > charged metal atoms (ions), and few are charged; in other words,

> they are

> > neutral.

> >

> > The molecular structure of EDTA is highly specific and it ONLY

> chelates

> > charged metal atoms (metal ions). The molecule is quite small

> compared to a

> > mycotoxin molecule, and grabs ions in a claw-like cage.

> >

> > And that's it.

> >

> > All mycotoxins are MUCH larger than water molecules and

mycotoxins

> cannot

> > penetrate anything the way water molecules can.

> >

> > C. May, M.A. organic chemistry

> > May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

> > 1522 Cambridge Street

> > Cambridge, MA 02139

> > 617-354-1055

> > www.mayindoorair.com

> > www.myhouseiskillingme.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: jay krishnaa <jkrishnaa@y...>

> > Subject: Re: Does EDTA chelation address mold/mycotoxin illness

by

> any

> > chance ?

> >

> > Hi Loni,

> >

> > My original question was whether EDTA removes mycotoxin as well

> as heavy

> > metals. So, which chelators is your environmental doc thinks

that

> chelate

> > mycotoxins ?

> >

> > Thanks

> > Jay

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Kathy,

Did it work for you? Loni

urbanpinetrees3 <urbanpinetrees3@...> wrote: Loni,

Here is a link. http://www.detoxxbook.com/

If you want to know if there is a doctor in your area who has

attended continuing education on this protocol, you can call Body

Bio corporation. An environmental doctor who had this training

brought this program to my attention. It is for neurotoxic illness

including mold-related stuff.

Best,

Kathy

> >

> > Jay,

> >

> > The simple answer to your question is not at all.

> >

> > There are dozens of known mycotoxins, all very much larger than

> single,

> > charged metal atoms (ions), and few are charged; in other words,

> they are

> > neutral.

> >

> > The molecular structure of EDTA is highly specific and it ONLY

> chelates

> > charged metal atoms (metal ions). The molecule is quite small

> compared to a

> > mycotoxin molecule, and grabs ions in a claw-like cage.

> >

> > And that's it.

> >

> > All mycotoxins are MUCH larger than water molecules and

mycotoxins

> cannot

> > penetrate anything the way water molecules can.

> >

> > C. May, M.A. organic chemistry

> > May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

> > 1522 Cambridge Street

> > Cambridge, MA 02139

> > 617-354-1055

> > www.mayindoorair.com

> > www.myhouseiskillingme.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: jay krishnaa <jkrishnaa@y...>

> > Subject: Re: Does EDTA chelation address mold/mycotoxin illness

by

> any

> > chance ?

> >

> > Hi Loni,

> >

> > My original question was whether EDTA removes mycotoxin as well

> as heavy

> > metals. So, which chelators is your environmental doc thinks

that

> chelate

> > mycotoxins ?

> >

> > Thanks

> > Jay

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That looks like a lot of suppliments to take. Loni

urbanpinetrees3 <urbanpinetrees3@...> wrote: Loni,

Here is a link. http://www.detoxxbook.com/

If you want to know if there is a doctor in your area who has

attended continuing education on this protocol, you can call Body

Bio corporation. An environmental doctor who had this training

brought this program to my attention. It is for neurotoxic illness

including mold-related stuff.

Best,

Kathy

> >

> > Jay,

> >

> > The simple answer to your question is not at all.

> >

> > There are dozens of known mycotoxins, all very much larger than

> single,

> > charged metal atoms (ions), and few are charged; in other words,

> they are

> > neutral.

> >

> > The molecular structure of EDTA is highly specific and it ONLY

> chelates

> > charged metal atoms (metal ions). The molecule is quite small

> compared to a

> > mycotoxin molecule, and grabs ions in a claw-like cage.

> >

> > And that's it.

> >

> > All mycotoxins are MUCH larger than water molecules and

mycotoxins

> cannot

> > penetrate anything the way water molecules can.

> >

> > C. May, M.A. organic chemistry

> > May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

> > 1522 Cambridge Street

> > Cambridge, MA 02139

> > 617-354-1055

> > www.mayindoorair.com

> > www.myhouseiskillingme.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: jay krishnaa <jkrishnaa@y...>

> > Subject: Re: Does EDTA chelation address mold/mycotoxin illness

by

> any

> > chance ?

> >

> > Hi Loni,

> >

> > My original question was whether EDTA removes mycotoxin as well

> as heavy

> > metals. So, which chelators is your environmental doc thinks

that

> chelate

> > mycotoxins ?

> >

> > Thanks

> > Jay

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Kate,

My friend is using the PK protocol mainly to address any neurotoxins and now

finding out her family may be having mycotoxin issues as well.

Do you mean the Elyte Phoschol has been changed a bit ? Do you use the liquid

form ? I have tried squeezing the stuff out of those hard gel caps and it never

worked.

Thanks

Jay

urbanpinetrees3 <urbanpinetrees3@...> wrote:

Jay,

Interesting about your friend. Are they seeking treatment for mold

toxicity or some other neurotoxicity?

Did you know the formula for PhosChol has just been changed a bit to

make it more effective and better tolerated? We can tell a

difference, especially my kids who are very sensitive.

I wish you the best with the Dr. Shoemaker visit(s).

Kate

> >

> > Jay,

> >

> > The simple answer to your question is not at all.

> >

> > There are dozens of known mycotoxins, all very much larger than

> single,

> > charged metal atoms (ions), and few are charged; in other words,

> they are

> > neutral.

> >

> > The molecular structure of EDTA is highly specific and it ONLY

> chelates

> > charged metal atoms (metal ions). The molecule is quite small

> compared to a

> > mycotoxin molecule, and grabs ions in a claw-like cage.

> >

> > And that's it.

> >

> > All mycotoxins are MUCH larger than water molecules and

mycotoxins

> cannot

> > penetrate anything the way water molecules can.

> >

> > C. May, M.A. organic chemistry

> > May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

> > 1522 Cambridge Street

> > Cambridge, MA 02139

> > 617-354-1055

> > www.mayindoorair.com

> > www.myhouseiskillingme.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: jay krishnaa <jkrishnaa@y...>

> > Subject: Re: Does EDTA chelation address mold/mycotoxin illness

by

> any

> > chance ?

> >

> > Hi Loni,

> >

> > My original question was whether EDTA removes mycotoxin as well

> as heavy

> > metals. So, which chelators is your environmental doc thinks

that

> chelate

> > mycotoxins ?

> >

> > Thanks

> > Jay

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Loni,

Yes, it is helping especially with symptom reduction and

control.

I definitely notice the beneficial effects of butyrate and liquid

phoschol, but I'm not sure if they would be as effective if one

wasn't approaching the problem in a more multi-faceted way. That

is, avoiding exposure, modifying the diet, targeted nutritional

supplementation, reducing stress etc. Homemade kefir helps calm

the immune system. Certainly avoiding corn and peanuts has helped.

Some people I know have found Nebulized or IV Glutathione a helpful

addition, but the glutathione source is very important (can't be

oxidized). We tried fash push Glutathione IV on my oldest a few

years ago, through our doctor and it did help my son's severe mold

sensitivities. But he was vitamin and mineral deficient at the

time, and he was dehydrated often when he got the IV's, so they

weren't very pleasant for him. Basically after the IV's he could go

outside on very moldy days without suffering painful headaches (we

live in the SE). This is big for a kid who likes to play sports.

So butyrate and phoschol are helping but I also think it is

important to find out if you have nutritional deficiencies if you

can (blood tests are very helpful if you can afford them). In

serious cases, glutathione may be an important intervention as

well. As for minerals, Body Bio sells a mineral test kit which is a

do-it-yourself way to test your trace mineral status. I have found

it to be quite informative and cost-saving.

Kate

> > Jay,

> >

> > In my experience, the combination of E-lyte Cal/Mag Butyrate (a

> few

> > capsules taken with food), and E-lyte Phosphotidylcholine (as a

> > liver flush - oral liquid at night), seems to clear alot of mold-

> > related toxins from the gall bladder and liver. I take them

> without

> > any other supplements except trace minerals, after a strong

> > exposure, and I can feel the difference. They may also scrub

and

> > pull some stuff out of other places.

> >

> > They definitely help alleviate symptoms in my kids on very moldy

> > days. These are not drugs, so they work more slowly and gently.

> The

> > first is made from butter, and the second from soy oil, but you

> can

> > also get it in organic eggs although food sources are more

diluted.

> >

> > PhosChol (Lipostabil)is also available in IV form, but I've

never

> > tried that, but some say it helps with mold toxicity.

> >

> > Kate

> >

> > -- In , " Jeff May " <jeff@m...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Jay,

> > >

> > > The simple answer to your question is not at all.

> > >

> > > There are dozens of known mycotoxins, all very much larger

than

> > single,

> > > charged metal atoms (ions), and few are charged; in other

words,

> > they are

> > > neutral.

> > >

> > > The molecular structure of EDTA is highly specific and it ONLY

> > chelates

> > > charged metal atoms (metal ions). The molecule is quite small

> > compared to a

> > > mycotoxin molecule, and grabs ions in a claw-like cage.

> > >

> > > And that's it.

> > >

> > > All mycotoxins are MUCH larger than water molecules and

> mycotoxins

> > cannot

> > > penetrate anything the way water molecules can.

> > >

> > > C. May, M.A. organic chemistry

> > > May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

> > > 1522 Cambridge Street

> > > Cambridge, MA 02139

> > > 617-354-1055

> > > www.mayindoorair.com

> > > www.myhouseiskillingme.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: jay krishnaa <jkrishnaa@y...>

> > > Subject: Re: Does EDTA chelation address mold/mycotoxin

illness

> by

> > any

> > > chance ?

> > >

> > > Hi Loni,

> > >

> > > My original question was whether EDTA removes mycotoxin as

well

> > as heavy

> > > metals. So, which chelators is your environmental doc thinks

> that

> > chelate

> > > mycotoxins ?

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Jay

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thank you Jay,

Yes, the new PhosChol just became available and we do use the liquid

form. It does seems better, but if your child cannot tolerate it,

it could be that nutritional intervention will gradually make

tolerance possible. That certainly has been the case for us with

many supplements and foods.

Kane has used and occasionally uses CSM in her clinic but prefers

PhosChol (oral and IV) because she has found that it does not

deplete the fatty acids. For us, that is critical because there is

evidence that my children need alot of good quality fats in order

for their central nervous systems to function normally.

I would be interested in hearing how your friends are approaching

their mycotoxin problem. Have they modified any aspect of their

treatment with this discovery?

Kate

[Guest guest]

Does this PhosChol also lower cholesterol? Loni

urbanpinetrees3 <urbanpinetrees3@...> wrote: Thank you Jay,

Yes, the new PhosChol just became available and we do use the liquid

form. It does seems better, but if your child cannot tolerate it,

it could be that nutritional intervention will gradually make

tolerance possible. That certainly has been the case for us with

many supplements and foods.

Kane has used and occasionally uses CSM in her clinic but prefers

PhosChol (oral and IV) because she has found that it does not

deplete the fatty acids. For us, that is critical because there is

evidence that my children need alot of good quality fats in order

for their central nervous systems to function normally.

I would be interested in hearing how your friends are approaching

their mycotoxin problem. Have they modified any aspect of their

treatment with this discovery?

Kate

FAIR USE NOTICE:

[Guest guest]

>>>On Behalf Of urbanpinetrees3

That is, avoiding exposure, modifying the diet, targeted nutritional

supplementation, reducing stress etc. Homemade kefir helps calm

the immune system. Certainly avoiding corn and peanuts has helped.>>>>

Kate you make kefir also? I love mine and been making it for a long time.

However since I'm dairy intolerant I use coconut rather than dairy to

culture the kefir. My " normal " husband gets the milk kefir in his smoothie

breakfast every morning.

How I wish we lived in the Garden of Eden where we all could avoid all

exposures and have perfect 100% non-toxic homes; had the finances to really

be under the care of a specialist to order diagnostic tests, metabolic

tests, etc and repeat same quarterly or so to monitor our progress during

our treatment. A few do have that luxury and I'm happy for them. The

rest---have to start with baby steps looking what they can change and yes

diet is one; to start restricting some trigger foods. Peanuts and peanut

butter: there is one that is tested and certified to be aflatoxin free.

Yet if one has an issue with viruses, then the arginine/lysine ratio of

nuts, chocolate, etc will be problematic.

It's multi-faceted and once we really begin to look at this I applaud those

physicians who are investing time and money into further training to help

us.

Rosie

[Guest guest]

Hi Kate,

My friend is just realizing that mycotoxins may be a big problem. She hasn't

done any testing yet.

I will check the detoxx website to see what is new in the Phoschol, but since

she is selling the products that she promotes, it is natural to discredit other

proven products. As long as you give CSM away from meals and increase good fats

intake, I don't think it will deplete fatty acids. I am curious to know what

Dr.S thinks of the PK protocol in general.

Jay

urbanpinetrees3 <urbanpinetrees3@...> wrote:

Thank you Jay,

Yes, the new PhosChol just became available and we do use the liquid

form. It does seems better, but if your child cannot tolerate it,

it could be that nutritional intervention will gradually make

tolerance possible. That certainly has been the case for us with

many supplements and foods.

Kane has used and occasionally uses CSM in her clinic but prefers

PhosChol (oral and IV) because she has found that it does not

deplete the fatty acids. For us, that is critical because there is

evidence that my children need alot of good quality fats in order

for their central nervous systems to function normally.

I would be interested in hearing how your friends are approaching

their mycotoxin problem. Have they modified any aspect of their

treatment with this discovery?

Kate

FAIR USE NOTICE:

[Guest guest]

Thanks Kate, Alot of my problem is the stress of this illness. Trying to work &

the money it costs. I am on glutithione injectable now. Doctors & family think I

am crazy, don't understand mold. I just want to crawl up in a ball forget about

it alot of the time.

Loni

urbanpinetrees3 <urbanpinetrees3@...> wrote:

Loni,

Yes, it is helping especially with symptom reduction and

control.

I definitely notice the beneficial effects of butyrate and liquid

phoschol, but I'm not sure if they would be as effective if one

wasn't approaching the problem in a more multi-faceted way. That

is, avoiding exposure, modifying the diet, targeted nutritional

supplementation, reducing stress etc. Homemade kefir helps calm

the immune system. Certainly avoiding corn and peanuts has helped.

Some people I know have found Nebulized or IV Glutathione a helpful

addition, but the glutathione source is very important (can't be

oxidized). We tried fash push Glutathione IV on my oldest a few

years ago, through our doctor and it did help my son's severe mold

sensitivities. But he was vitamin and mineral deficient at the

time, and he was dehydrated often when he got the IV's, so they

weren't very pleasant for him. Basically after the IV's he could go

outside on very moldy days without suffering painful headaches (we

live in the SE). This is big for a kid who likes to play sports.

So butyrate and phoschol are helping but I also think it is

important to find out if you have nutritional deficiencies if you

can (blood tests are very helpful if you can afford them). In

serious cases, glutathione may be an important intervention as

well. As for minerals, Body Bio sells a mineral test kit which is a

do-it-yourself way to test your trace mineral status. I have found

it to be quite informative and cost-saving.

Kate

> > Jay,

> >

> > In my experience, the combination of E-lyte Cal/Mag Butyrate (a

> few

> > capsules taken with food), and E-lyte Phosphotidylcholine (as a

> > liver flush - oral liquid at night), seems to clear alot of mold-

> > related toxins from the gall bladder and liver. I take them

> without

> > any other supplements except trace minerals, after a strong

> > exposure, and I can feel the difference. They may also scrub

and

> > pull some stuff out of other places.

> >

> > They definitely help alleviate symptoms in my kids on very moldy

> > days. These are not drugs, so they work more slowly and gently.

> The

> > first is made from butter, and the second from soy oil, but you

> can

> > also get it in organic eggs although food sources are more

diluted.

> >

> > PhosChol (Lipostabil)is also available in IV form, but I've

never

> > tried that, but some say it helps with mold toxicity.

> >

> > Kate

> >

> > -- In , " Jeff May " <jeff@m...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Jay,

> > >

> > > The simple answer to your question is not at all.

> > >

> > > There are dozens of known mycotoxins, all very much larger

than

> > single,

> > > charged metal atoms (ions), and few are charged; in other

words,

> > they are

> > > neutral.

> > >

> > > The molecular structure of EDTA is highly specific and it ONLY

> > chelates

> > > charged metal atoms (metal ions). The molecule is quite small

> > compared to a

> > > mycotoxin molecule, and grabs ions in a claw-like cage.

> > >

> > > And that's it.

> > >

> > > All mycotoxins are MUCH larger than water molecules and

> mycotoxins

> > cannot

> > > penetrate anything the way water molecules can.

> > >

> > > C. May, M.A. organic chemistry

> > > May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

> > > 1522 Cambridge Street

> > > Cambridge, MA 02139

> > > 617-354-1055

> > > www.mayindoorair.com

> > > www.myhouseiskillingme.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: jay krishnaa <jkrishnaa@y...>

> > > Subject: Re: Does EDTA chelation address mold/mycotoxin

illness

> by

> > any

> > > chance ?

> > >

> > > Hi Loni,

> > >

> > > My original question was whether EDTA removes mycotoxin as

well

> > as heavy

> > > metals. So, which chelators is your environmental doc thinks

> that

> > chelate

> > > mycotoxins ?

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Jay

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Jay,

Great thanks. Love those fatty acids!

I want to emphasize that P. Kane consistently spoken highly of Dr.

Shoemaker's work, and her bias has always been to prefer food-based

treatments over pharmaceuticals even before Dr. Shoemaker's protocol

was established. She is also researching neurotoxicity for the most

part, while it is my understanding that Shoemaker has been treating

perhaps a wider variety of cases related to biotoxins.

As for making the supplements herself. It is a two sided coin,

because by having some say in the manufacturing process, she can

insure the quality and tolerability stays constant, and that can

often be an issue with nutritional supplements. For us that has

been a plus, because we had lots of trouble finding supplements we

could tolerate.

Kate

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I make up pills for myself that contain choline bitartrate and Vitamin

B5, and I have noticed that they help a lot with my mold symptoms.

Inexpensive Phosphtatidyl Choline (commonly known as 'lechithin') is also good.

The best form of choline that is widely available is called Alpha GPC

choline. But it costs around $30/ounce....wholesale... It is very

powerful and also, helps with mold symptoms.. a lot.. But its pricey..

is it worth it? I would say this is up to you..

Choline bitartrate is around 1/3 as good and it costs around $20/kilo

wholesale. A kilo would last you a whole year..

There are various forms of phosphatidyl choline (Lechithin) available,

some very inexpensive.. Walgreens has it for around $10/bottle of 120

gelcaps..

All forms of choline require supplemental vitamin B5 to be assimilated fully..

Choline is synergistic with piracetam.. the two go well together...

[Guest guest]

Yes, B5 with choline, good point and thanks for posting the cost

saving ideas.

Kate

>

> I make up pills for myself that contain choline bitartrate and

Vitamin

> B5, and I have noticed that they help a lot with my mold symptoms.

>

> Inexpensive Phosphtatidyl Choline (commonly known as 'lechithin')

is also good.

>

> The best form of choline that is widely available is called Alpha

GPC

> choline. But it costs around $30/ounce....wholesale... It is very

> powerful and also, helps with mold symptoms.. a lot.. But its

pricey..

> is it worth it? I would say this is up to you..

>

> Choline bitartrate is around 1/3 as good and it costs around

$20/kilo

> wholesale. A kilo would last you a whole year..

>

> There are various forms of phosphatidyl choline (Lechithin)

available,

> some very inexpensive.. Walgreens has it for around $10/bottle of

120

> gelcaps..

>

> All forms of choline require supplemental vitamin B5 to be

assimilated fully..

>

> Choline is synergistic with piracetam.. the two go well together...

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Quack. I have noticed that the lecithin I bought from Life Extension

that has B5 is much better than the plain lecithin even though I have

supplemented with B vitamins in general.

Jay

LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote:

I make up pills for myself that contain choline bitartrate and Vitamin

B5, and I have noticed that they help a lot with my mold symptoms.

Inexpensive Phosphtatidyl Choline (commonly known as 'lechithin') is also good.

The best form of choline that is widely available is called Alpha GPC

choline. But it costs around $30/ounce....wholesale... It is very

powerful and also, helps with mold symptoms.. a lot.. But its pricey..

is it worth it? I would say this is up to you..

Choline bitartrate is around 1/3 as good and it costs around $20/kilo

wholesale. A kilo would last you a whole year..

There are various forms of phosphatidyl choline (Lechithin) available,

some very inexpensive.. Walgreens has it for around $10/bottle of 120

gelcaps..

All forms of choline require supplemental vitamin B5 to be assimilated fully..

Choline is synergistic with piracetam.. the two go well together...

FAIR USE NOTICE:

[Guest guest]

Hi Kate,

I didn't mean to sound negative about PK protocol. I know it works

for many people. It's just that I am very careful when someone sells

something. I can name many in the ASD field, I am sure you know what

I mean. We have tried CSM before for only 4-5 days in a row (3 times

a day) and I saw that my son was great one evening, but the next day

wasn't the same. Then I went back to reading the Detoxx book and

thought it may have been due to his depletion of fats by CSM and I

stopped. Now, I realize that reexposure may have been the reason as

he went back to the bed that was, I am sure, contaminated. I even

tried it once a day but didn't see much at all. Now, I have stopped

it and want to do it correctly starting with reducing the reexposure.

Jay

>

> Jay,

>

> Great thanks. Love those fatty acids!

>

> I want to emphasize that P. Kane consistently spoken highly of Dr.

> Shoemaker's work, and her bias has always been to prefer food-

based

> treatments over pharmaceuticals even before Dr. Shoemaker's

protocol

> was established. She is also researching neurotoxicity for the

most

> part, while it is my understanding that Shoemaker has been

treating

> perhaps a wider variety of cases related to biotoxins.

>

> As for making the supplements herself. It is a two sided coin,

> because by having some say in the manufacturing process, she can

> insure the quality and tolerability stays constant, and that can

> often be an issue with nutritional supplements. For us that has

> been a plus, because we had lots of trouble finding supplements we

> could tolerate.

>

> Kate

>

>

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Jay,

No problem! It's great to have your feed back...I accidentally

responded to this post in Lyme-Autism. I just get interrupted you

know?

Kate

--- In , " jkrishnaa " <jkrishnaa@y...>

wrote:

>

> Hi Kate,

>

> I didn't mean to sound negative about PK protocol. I know it works

> for many people. It's just that I am very careful when someone

sells

> something. I can name many in the ASD field, I am sure you know

what

> I mean. We have tried CSM before for only 4-5 days in a row (3

times

> a day) and I saw that my son was great one evening, but the next

[Guest guest]

LOL. I saw that, but realized immediately you meant to send it here.

Jay

> >

> > Hi Kate,

> >

> > I didn't mean to sound negative about PK protocol. I know it

works

> > for many people. It's just that I am very careful when someone

> sells

> > something. I can name many in the ASD field, I am sure you know

> what

> > I mean. We have tried CSM before for only 4-5 days in a row (3

> times

> > a day) and I saw that my son was great one evening, but the next

>

[Guest guest]

Where is Dr Kane located? Loni

urbanpinetrees3 <urbanpinetrees3@...> wrote: Jay,

Great thanks. Love those fatty acids!

I want to emphasize that P. Kane consistently spoken highly of Dr.

Shoemaker's work, and her bias has always been to prefer food-based

treatments over pharmaceuticals even before Dr. Shoemaker's protocol

was established. She is also researching neurotoxicity for the most

part, while it is my understanding that Shoemaker has been treating

perhaps a wider variety of cases related to biotoxins.

As for making the supplements herself. It is a two sided coin,

because by having some say in the manufacturing process, she can

insure the quality and tolerability stays constant, and that can

often be an issue with nutritional supplements. For us that has

been a plus, because we had lots of trouble finding supplements we

could tolerate.

Kate

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My $0.02.. Just my own experience.. nothing more...

You know what's strange.. When I first started taking CSM, I was very

very sick, with too many symptoms to describe now/here.. I was in

hell..panicking totally..and

for the first few days after i took it it sometimes seemed as if it

was making me feel *sicker*..

Because it was *sucking something out of me that was very toxic, that

had been there a long time* and that process seemed to be exposing it

to me in some way- again.. until the bulk of it had passed out..

I had unbelievable aces and pains in my gut.. grinding, bloating..

serious reflux.. and some of the mold symptoms came and went sometimes

almost as bad as before..

but all that has slacked off, to be replaced by steady, nuanced

improvements on many levels.. noticable to me but hard to describe..

One of the biggest ones is that i am sleeping much better now than I

have in a long time.. still needing to get up to pee, but not five or

six times like I had to before.. (I never got any real rest..) instead

just once or twice..

I still notice that when I take it on an empty stomach in the morning,

as soon as I eat something after that, my fingers get numb and

sometimes, start to hurt..

Maybe that is the night's mycotoxins? I don't know.. I do still have a

mold problem...

But the cold/numbness and pain/tingling goes away pretty quickly..

once I get moving and doing things.. and it is CLEAR that my overall

symptom level has been going steadily down.. esp. when I take it 4 x a

day.. (hard to maintain) And I have even been getting some of my old

energy back.. (and feeling noticably less scrambled..)

And that has been continuing. Today I went for a trip to do a buch of

errands and I felt better than I have in months. And I didn't get that

overwhelmed, sweaty feeling I used to get with the slightest exertion

until I was almost home..going up a hill..

If i was going to go through this again, I would tell myself to def.

give it a chance to start working... really i wasn't 100% sure that

the real positive changes were happening for over a week..

But it is for real.. at least if your problems are caused by mold.. I

think those here feel that the chances of it helping are very high..

(would people say 99%? I think so..)

>We have tried CSM before for only 4-5 days in a row (3 times

>a day) and I saw that my son was great one evening, but the next day

>wasn't the same. Then I went back to reading the Detoxx book and

>thought it may have been due to his depletion of fats by CSM and I

stopped. Now, I realize that reexposure may have been the reason as

he went back to the bed that was, I am sure, contaminated. I even

tried it once a day but didn't see much at all. Now, I have stopped

it and want to do it correctly starting with reducing the reexposure.

[Guest guest]

Actually, almost everybody who is older than 40 or 50 or so or people

from the undeveloped world a little later grew up in an environment

without many of the toxics we are absorbing in mass quantities now..

Its a vast experiment with thousands of variables.. impossible to

quantify the outcome..

And then there is also the climate change issue.. certainly that is

effecting the mold growth issue..

>How I wish we lived in the Garden of Eden where we all could avoid all

exposures and have perfect 100% non-toxic homes; had the finances to really

be under the care of a specialist to order diagnostic tests, metabolic

tests, etc and repeat same quarterly or so to monitor our progress during

our treatment.

[Guest guest]

Quack, How long have you taken it? Sounds like you're still taking it. Doesn't

the CSM reduce it to the point you don't need to take it anymore? I liked your

story, thanks, Loni

LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote: My $0.02.. Just my own experience..

nothing more...

You know what's strange.. When I first started taking CSM, I was very

very sick, with too many symptoms to describe now/here.. I was in

hell..panicking totally..and

for the first few days after i took it it sometimes seemed as if it

was making me feel *sicker*..

Because it was *sucking something out of me that was very toxic, that

had been there a long time* and that process seemed to be exposing it

to me in some way- again.. until the bulk of it had passed out..

I had unbelievable aces and pains in my gut.. grinding, bloating..

serious reflux.. and some of the mold symptoms came and went sometimes

almost as bad as before..

but all that has slacked off, to be replaced by steady, nuanced

improvements on many levels.. noticable to me but hard to describe..

One of the biggest ones is that i am sleeping much better now than I

have in a long time.. still needing to get up to pee, but not five or

six times like I had to before.. (I never got any real rest..) instead

just once or twice..

I still notice that when I take it on an empty stomach in the morning,

as soon as I eat something after that, my fingers get numb and

sometimes, start to hurt..

Maybe that is the night's mycotoxins? I don't know.. I do still have a

mold problem...

But the cold/numbness and pain/tingling goes away pretty quickly..

once I get moving and doing things.. and it is CLEAR that my overall

symptom level has been going steadily down.. esp. when I take it 4 x a

day.. (hard to maintain) And I have even been getting some of my old

energy back.. (and feeling noticably less scrambled..)

And that has been continuing. Today I went for a trip to do a buch of

errands and I felt better than I have in months. And I didn't get that

overwhelmed, sweaty feeling I used to get with the slightest exertion

until I was almost home..going up a hill..

If i was going to go through this again, I would tell myself to def.

give it a chance to start working... really i wasn't 100% sure that

the real positive changes were happening for over a week..

But it is for real.. at least if your problems are caused by mold.. I

think those here feel that the chances of it helping are very high..

(would people say 99%? I think so..)

>We have tried CSM before for only 4-5 days in a row (3 times

>a day) and I saw that my son was great one evening, but the next day

>wasn't the same. Then I went back to reading the Detoxx book and

>thought it may have been due to his depletion of fats by CSM and I

stopped. Now, I realize that reexposure may have been the reason as

he went back to the bed that was, I am sure, contaminated. I even

tried it once a day but didn't see much at all. Now, I have stopped

it and want to do it correctly starting with reducing the reexposure.

FAIR USE NOTICE: