Re: Re: MR label

[Guest guest]

,

I don't think this is " flap " over Cheryl's post. I would just like to know the

facts-- what is the matter with that? I would like to read the newspaper

story, and maybe contact the parents to learn more about this special young

man. If he can do what Cheryl said, then I think all of the DS community would

be interested in knowing more about him-- the parents, the researchers, the

doctors and educators. Since there was a story about him in the newspaper,

this isn't confidential information. Why shouldn't parents be interested in

this young man? If this were reported on the TV news, everyone would be

calling the station for more information. That's all I'm trying to do. Of

course we all love our children, and want the best for them-- whatever that may

be. But, if there is a possibility that this boy's father has a gift for

teaching math to people with DS, I would like to know about it. And....if the

boy is really MR but has a gift for understanding math, I would like to know

about that too. This isn't " flap. "

Barbara

Re: MR label

In a message dated 4/20/2005 10:02:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,

writes:

Why in the world would he have an MR label if he has no limitations,

obviously?

Hey the label came from the school system. Maybe they were wrong. My

daughter has an MR label according to testing but she always functions way

higher

I can't believe the amount of flap over Cheryl's post about a young man with

Ds who is doing well in one area.

I am the mother of a young lady who will be 18 in one week. Like many

other parents we did not want to place limitations on her and held out for

keeping her in as inclusive a setting as we possibly could.

Her capabilities and yes, her own limitations have ultimately taken all of us

in a different direction than we originally had hoped for. Do we love her

less?

Or do we resent other young people who are acheiving more? NO

Sheila has an incredible sense of humor and finds joy in a life that would

break many. But taking any kind of high school level academic courses, let

alone

college courses is just not realistic for her. This young man who is doing

well in computing and math courses--more power to him. And why are we

shaking our heads over an MR label?

Cheryl has shared something about one small aspect of his life--one where

he is doing well, but what about other subject areas, or relationships, or

any other aspects of his life. We might not be so quick to condemn the

use of an MR label if we knew everything about him. Besides what is a

label? Pretty meaningless in the general scheme of things. (IMHO)

Sheila has a friend at school who in some ways seems much " brighter " than

Sheila, but at the same time he clearly has some " mental retardation " . He

has a learners permit and talks about getting his drivers license, but...

...but it's not my place to share anything else about this young man.

Cheryl--thanks for sharing the story about this young man you know--he

sounds like a terrific person. I've loved hearing about your own daughter's

accomplishments as well. All of our children can benefit from positive

stories about young men and young women with Ds. Positive stories

do have the power to change attitudes and beliefs about our children.

nancy (mom of ; Sheila-DS, cardiac complications, ADHD, peripheral

blindness, deficiency in 6 clotting factors and low platelets, and

hypopituitarism; and Colleen)

[Guest guest]

,

I don't think this is " flap " over Cheryl's post. I would just like to know the

facts-- what is the matter with that? I would like to read the newspaper

story, and maybe contact the parents to learn more about this special young

man. If he can do what Cheryl said, then I think all of the DS community would

be interested in knowing more about him-- the parents, the researchers, the

doctors and educators. Since there was a story about him in the newspaper,

this isn't confidential information. Why shouldn't parents be interested in

this young man? If this were reported on the TV news, everyone would be

calling the station for more information. That's all I'm trying to do. Of

course we all love our children, and want the best for them-- whatever that may

be. But, if there is a possibility that this boy's father has a gift for

teaching math to people with DS, I would like to know about it. And....if the

boy is really MR but has a gift for understanding math, I would like to know

about that too. This isn't " flap. "

Barbara

Re: MR label

In a message dated 4/20/2005 10:02:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,

writes:

Why in the world would he have an MR label if he has no limitations,

obviously?

Hey the label came from the school system. Maybe they were wrong. My

daughter has an MR label according to testing but she always functions way

higher

I can't believe the amount of flap over Cheryl's post about a young man with

Ds who is doing well in one area.

I am the mother of a young lady who will be 18 in one week. Like many

other parents we did not want to place limitations on her and held out for

keeping her in as inclusive a setting as we possibly could.

Her capabilities and yes, her own limitations have ultimately taken all of us

in a different direction than we originally had hoped for. Do we love her

less?

Or do we resent other young people who are acheiving more? NO

Sheila has an incredible sense of humor and finds joy in a life that would

break many. But taking any kind of high school level academic courses, let

alone

college courses is just not realistic for her. This young man who is doing

well in computing and math courses--more power to him. And why are we

shaking our heads over an MR label?

Cheryl has shared something about one small aspect of his life--one where

he is doing well, but what about other subject areas, or relationships, or

any other aspects of his life. We might not be so quick to condemn the

use of an MR label if we knew everything about him. Besides what is a

label? Pretty meaningless in the general scheme of things. (IMHO)

Sheila has a friend at school who in some ways seems much " brighter " than

Sheila, but at the same time he clearly has some " mental retardation " . He

has a learners permit and talks about getting his drivers license, but...

...but it's not my place to share anything else about this young man.

Cheryl--thanks for sharing the story about this young man you know--he

sounds like a terrific person. I've loved hearing about your own daughter's

accomplishments as well. All of our children can benefit from positive

stories about young men and young women with Ds. Positive stories

do have the power to change attitudes and beliefs about our children.

nancy (mom of ; Sheila-DS, cardiac complications, ADHD, peripheral

blindness, deficiency in 6 clotting factors and low platelets, and

hypopituitarism; and Colleen)

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

I'm really sorry you feel this is an " inquisition. " I won't write any more

about this.

Barbara

Re: Re: MR label

In a message dated 4/21/2005 8:43:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

bmitchell@... writes:

then I think all of the DS community would be interested in knowing more

about him

And Barbara, if I show his mom all the posts from here, I sincerely doubt

she will share anything with parents. I have already decided that sharing

about my daughter on this list will change. I believe he is not the only young

adult doing well but maybe we don't hear more from them for this same reason.

Our lDS community all know him, local doctors know about him, he is very well

known locally. He has been on panels that local doctors at our children's

hospital set up for resident pediatricians about DS. I am sure they just

attribute

his skills to the impact DS has on him individually and somehow it has a

milder impact than on others. Which is the reality, he has genes cut off and

cut on

that others don't. Each of our kids have that.

We all know that some kids are affected more severly than others. This is one

of those cases. We do know of young adults that are actors, that drive to

college. You mentioned Gaffney. Isn't she taking college courses?

Didn't

we just hear about a young lady that passed the MCAS in Massachusetts and is

trying to get accepted in and Wales?

This thread turned into one about kids with DS attending college. I gave and

example of a local young man and WHAM ..... must not have DS, must not have

MR, must not really be doing that well, must not, must not, must not. I am

sure his mom will not be comfortable with an inquisition that I placed her in!

But she is one of the founding members of our local support group, her family

has been helping others since her son was born, she may respond to you as an

indivdual. I can check.

Cheryl

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

I'm really sorry you feel this is an " inquisition. " I won't write any more

about this.

Barbara

Re: Re: MR label

In a message dated 4/21/2005 8:43:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

bmitchell@... writes:

then I think all of the DS community would be interested in knowing more

about him

And Barbara, if I show his mom all the posts from here, I sincerely doubt

she will share anything with parents. I have already decided that sharing

about my daughter on this list will change. I believe he is not the only young

adult doing well but maybe we don't hear more from them for this same reason.

Our lDS community all know him, local doctors know about him, he is very well

known locally. He has been on panels that local doctors at our children's

hospital set up for resident pediatricians about DS. I am sure they just

attribute

his skills to the impact DS has on him individually and somehow it has a

milder impact than on others. Which is the reality, he has genes cut off and

cut on

that others don't. Each of our kids have that.

We all know that some kids are affected more severly than others. This is one

of those cases. We do know of young adults that are actors, that drive to

college. You mentioned Gaffney. Isn't she taking college courses?

Didn't

we just hear about a young lady that passed the MCAS in Massachusetts and is

trying to get accepted in and Wales?

This thread turned into one about kids with DS attending college. I gave and

example of a local young man and WHAM ..... must not have DS, must not have

MR, must not really be doing that well, must not, must not, must not. I am

sure his mom will not be comfortable with an inquisition that I placed her in!

But she is one of the founding members of our local support group, her family

has been helping others since her son was born, she may respond to you as an

indivdual. I can check.

Cheryl

[Guest guest]

No one is giving Cheryl flap. We're just asking questions. I'm sorry if my

question about how our children get MR labels offended anyone. To insinuate

that we are guilty of putting " limitations " on persons with DS because we are

asking questions is an inaccurate statement.

Jackie

-------------- Original message --------------

>

> In a message dated 4/20/2005 10:02:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> writes:

> Why in the world would he have an MR label if he has no limitations,

> obviously?

> Hey the label came from the school system. Maybe they were wrong. My

> daughter has an MR label according to testing but she always functions way

> higher

>

>

> I can't believe the amount of flap over Cheryl's post about a young man with

> Ds who is doing well in one area.

>

> I am the mother of a young lady who will be 18 in one week. Like many

> other parents we did not want to place limitations on her and held out for

> keeping her in as inclusive a setting as we possibly could.

>

> Her capabilities and yes, her own limitations have ultimately taken all of us

> in a different direction than we originally had hoped for. Do we love her

> less?

> Or do we resent other young people who are acheiving more? NO

>

> Sheila has an incredible sense of humor and finds joy in a life that would

> break many. But taking any kind of high school level academic courses, let

> alone

> college courses is just not realistic for her. This young man who is doing

> well in computing and math courses--more power to him. And why are we

> shaking our heads over an MR label?

>

> Cheryl has shared something about one small aspect of his life--one where

> he is doing well, but what about other subject areas, or relationships, or

> any other aspects of his life. We might not be so quick to condemn the

> use of an MR label if we knew everything about him. Besides what is a

> label? Pretty meaningless in the general scheme of things. (IMHO)

>

> Sheila has a friend at school who in some ways seems much " brighter " than

> Sheila, but at the same time he clearly has some " mental retardation " . He

> has a learners permit and talks about getting his drivers license, but...

>

> ...but it's not my place to share anything else about this young man.

>

> Cheryl--thanks for sharing the story about this young man you know--he

> sounds like a terrific person. I've loved hearing about your own daughter's

> accomplishments as well. All of our children can benefit from positive

> stories about young men and young women with Ds. Positive stories

> do have the power to change attitudes and beliefs about our children.

>

> nancy (mom of ; Sheila-DS, cardiac complications, ADHD, peripheral

> blindness, deficiency in 6 clotting factors and low platelets, and

> hypopituitarism; and Colleen)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

No one is giving Cheryl flap. We're just asking questions. I'm sorry if my

question about how our children get MR labels offended anyone. To insinuate

that we are guilty of putting " limitations " on persons with DS because we are

asking questions is an inaccurate statement.

Jackie

-------------- Original message --------------

>

> In a message dated 4/20/2005 10:02:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> writes:

> Why in the world would he have an MR label if he has no limitations,

> obviously?

> Hey the label came from the school system. Maybe they were wrong. My

> daughter has an MR label according to testing but she always functions way

> higher

>

>

> I can't believe the amount of flap over Cheryl's post about a young man with

> Ds who is doing well in one area.

>

> I am the mother of a young lady who will be 18 in one week. Like many

> other parents we did not want to place limitations on her and held out for

> keeping her in as inclusive a setting as we possibly could.

>

> Her capabilities and yes, her own limitations have ultimately taken all of us

> in a different direction than we originally had hoped for. Do we love her

> less?

> Or do we resent other young people who are acheiving more? NO

>

> Sheila has an incredible sense of humor and finds joy in a life that would

> break many. But taking any kind of high school level academic courses, let

> alone

> college courses is just not realistic for her. This young man who is doing

> well in computing and math courses--more power to him. And why are we

> shaking our heads over an MR label?

>

> Cheryl has shared something about one small aspect of his life--one where

> he is doing well, but what about other subject areas, or relationships, or

> any other aspects of his life. We might not be so quick to condemn the

> use of an MR label if we knew everything about him. Besides what is a

> label? Pretty meaningless in the general scheme of things. (IMHO)

>

> Sheila has a friend at school who in some ways seems much " brighter " than

> Sheila, but at the same time he clearly has some " mental retardation " . He

> has a learners permit and talks about getting his drivers license, but...

>

> ...but it's not my place to share anything else about this young man.

>

> Cheryl--thanks for sharing the story about this young man you know--he

> sounds like a terrific person. I've loved hearing about your own daughter's

> accomplishments as well. All of our children can benefit from positive

> stories about young men and young women with Ds. Positive stories

> do have the power to change attitudes and beliefs about our children.

>

> nancy (mom of ; Sheila-DS, cardiac complications, ADHD, peripheral

> blindness, deficiency in 6 clotting factors and low platelets, and

> hypopituitarism; and Colleen)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Inquisition? Where is this coming from? I thought we could ask questions? All

I wanted to know is how a person gets an MR label when they have obvious

academic talents? Relax!

Jackie

-------------- Original message --------------

>

> In a message dated 4/21/2005 8:43:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> bmitchell@... writes:

> then I think all of the DS community would be interested in knowing more

> about him

> And Barbara, if I show his mom all the posts from here, I sincerely doubt

> she will share anything with parents. I have already decided that sharing

> about my daughter on this list will change. I believe he is not the only young

> adult doing well but maybe we don't hear more from them for this same reason.

> Our lDS community all know him, local doctors know about him, he is very well

> known locally. He has been on panels that local doctors at our children's

> hospital set up for resident pediatricians about DS. I am sure they just

> attribute

> his skills to the impact DS has on him individually and somehow it has a

> milder impact than on others. Which is the reality, he has genes cut off and

cut

> on

> that others don't. Each of our kids have that.

>

> We all know that some kids are affected more severly than others. This is one

> of those cases. We do know of young adults that are actors, that drive to

> college. You mentioned Gaffney. Isn't she taking college courses?

> Didn't

> we just hear about a young lady that passed the MCAS in Massachusetts and is

> trying to get accepted in and Wales?

>

> This thread turned into one about kids with DS attending college. I gave and

> example of a local young man and WHAM ..... must not have DS, must not have

> MR, must not really be doing that well, must not, must not, must not. I am

> sure his mom will not be comfortable with an inquisition that I placed her in!

> But she is one of the founding members of our local support group, her family

> has been helping others since her son was born, she may respond to you as an

> indivdual. I can check.

>

> Cheryl

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Inquisition? Where is this coming from? I thought we could ask questions? All

I wanted to know is how a person gets an MR label when they have obvious

academic talents? Relax!

Jackie

-------------- Original message --------------

>

> In a message dated 4/21/2005 8:43:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> bmitchell@... writes:

> then I think all of the DS community would be interested in knowing more

> about him

> And Barbara, if I show his mom all the posts from here, I sincerely doubt

> she will share anything with parents. I have already decided that sharing

> about my daughter on this list will change. I believe he is not the only young

> adult doing well but maybe we don't hear more from them for this same reason.

> Our lDS community all know him, local doctors know about him, he is very well

> known locally. He has been on panels that local doctors at our children's

> hospital set up for resident pediatricians about DS. I am sure they just

> attribute

> his skills to the impact DS has on him individually and somehow it has a

> milder impact than on others. Which is the reality, he has genes cut off and

cut

> on

> that others don't. Each of our kids have that.

>

> We all know that some kids are affected more severly than others. This is one

> of those cases. We do know of young adults that are actors, that drive to

> college. You mentioned Gaffney. Isn't she taking college courses?

> Didn't

> we just hear about a young lady that passed the MCAS in Massachusetts and is

> trying to get accepted in and Wales?

>

> This thread turned into one about kids with DS attending college. I gave and

> example of a local young man and WHAM ..... must not have DS, must not have

> MR, must not really be doing that well, must not, must not, must not. I am

> sure his mom will not be comfortable with an inquisition that I placed her in!

> But she is one of the founding members of our local support group, her family

> has been helping others since her son was born, she may respond to you as an

> indivdual. I can check.

>

> Cheryl

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

I am sorry to read this morning, that you have become upset over the

discussions in regards to the young man you wrote about. As an outsider,

who has no idea of your schooling system and 'label's, I have found this all

very interesting. although I must admit I have not read all the posts.

Congratulations to him and his family, for getting him to where he is. It

is a great achievement, hard work and genetics play a major role in our kids

advancement.

As to the 'inquistion' I feel, it is normal for parents to ask loads of

questions as to how he has got so far - not because they are doubting his

achievement but 'there is a chance for my child and what do I have to do to

help them along'. As you would be aware the more information we parents

have the better chance we have of getting the right services/help to assist

our kids along.

Keep smiling,

Jan, mother of Trent 20yo w/DS from the LandDownUnder

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

I am sorry to read this morning, that you have become upset over the

discussions in regards to the young man you wrote about. As an outsider,

who has no idea of your schooling system and 'label's, I have found this all

very interesting. although I must admit I have not read all the posts.

Congratulations to him and his family, for getting him to where he is. It

is a great achievement, hard work and genetics play a major role in our kids

advancement.

As to the 'inquistion' I feel, it is normal for parents to ask loads of

questions as to how he has got so far - not because they are doubting his

achievement but 'there is a chance for my child and what do I have to do to

help them along'. As you would be aware the more information we parents

have the better chance we have of getting the right services/help to assist

our kids along.

Keep smiling,

Jan, mother of Trent 20yo w/DS from the LandDownUnder

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/21/05 4:58:13 AM Central Daylight Time, RSYOSH@...

writes:

>

> There are disabiliteis that are not evident to the casual observer that may

> make participation in regular sports a problem. Disorders on the Autism

> spectrum are a great example.

>

> - Becky

>

Some years ago was in a special ceramics class and there were

some social occasions too. There was a young man who came sometimes that I

couldn't help wondering about. He looked perfectly normal, tall and good

looking, if you had put him in a nice suit behind a desk he could have been the

CEO. But he was in these special programs so there must have been something.

His mother took him back and forth.

Jessie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/21/05 4:58:13 AM Central Daylight Time, RSYOSH@...

writes:

>

> There are disabiliteis that are not evident to the casual observer that may

> make participation in regular sports a problem. Disorders on the Autism

> spectrum are a great example.

>

> - Becky

>

Some years ago was in a special ceramics class and there were

some social occasions too. There was a young man who came sometimes that I

couldn't help wondering about. He looked perfectly normal, tall and good

looking, if you had put him in a nice suit behind a desk he could have been the

CEO. But he was in these special programs so there must have been something.

His mother took him back and forth.

Jessie

[Guest guest]

RSYOSH@... wrote:

> In a message dated 4/21/2005 2:58:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> rdill@... writes:

>

> Special Olympics does NOT REQUIRE that the participants be classified

> MR. LD .. or even having an IEP is enough. In SO, we saw many

> participants who had no visible handicap, either intellectually or in

> athletics. Since I never saw their qualification paperwork, I

> have to

> assume that they were properly eligible

>

> There are disabiliteis that are not evident to the casual observer

> that may make participation in regular sports a problem. Disorders on

> the Autism spectrum are a great example.

>

> - Becky

Becky,

Yes, I know that. The NY requirements were only that you had to be in

some special ed class. In NY city there were lots of kids who were

handicapped for scocial reasons who had nothing really wrong with them

than no schooling that worked and probably no real parents. They were

truly handicapped and benefitted from the program.

You do not have to be mentally retarded to take part in spite of

Cheryl's equating developmental disability as being exactly equal to

mental retardation.

>>>>* Intellectual disabilities is synonymous with mental retardation

Cheryl in VA <<<

SO is not supposed to support kids who have no apparent handicap and who

could compete at the top of their public high school team. Yes, Jan had

to compete against one of those .. one on one. It would have been

discouraging but the gymnastics judges understood the issue and rewarded

both adequately. Occasionally I've seen things that were like the

scandal that broke out in Little League about ineligible players at

international level competition. Still, I really do not know

thehandicapping condition for that child

SO .. in my mind ..SO is about providing a place where everyone with a

handicap gets a chance to both win and lose. It is the winning that

brings hope and the losing that teaches about sportsmanship and life.

Some sports are better than others. I did my dozen years of coaching

and was proud to make the local area's coach's hall of fame.

Rick

[Guest guest]

RSYOSH@... wrote:

> In a message dated 4/21/2005 2:58:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> rdill@... writes:

>

> Special Olympics does NOT REQUIRE that the participants be classified

> MR. LD .. or even having an IEP is enough. In SO, we saw many

> participants who had no visible handicap, either intellectually or in

> athletics. Since I never saw their qualification paperwork, I

> have to

> assume that they were properly eligible

>

> There are disabiliteis that are not evident to the casual observer

> that may make participation in regular sports a problem. Disorders on

> the Autism spectrum are a great example.

>

> - Becky

Becky,

Yes, I know that. The NY requirements were only that you had to be in

some special ed class. In NY city there were lots of kids who were

handicapped for scocial reasons who had nothing really wrong with them

than no schooling that worked and probably no real parents. They were

truly handicapped and benefitted from the program.

You do not have to be mentally retarded to take part in spite of

Cheryl's equating developmental disability as being exactly equal to

mental retardation.

>>>>* Intellectual disabilities is synonymous with mental retardation

Cheryl in VA <<<

SO is not supposed to support kids who have no apparent handicap and who

could compete at the top of their public high school team. Yes, Jan had

to compete against one of those .. one on one. It would have been

discouraging but the gymnastics judges understood the issue and rewarded

both adequately. Occasionally I've seen things that were like the

scandal that broke out in Little League about ineligible players at

international level competition. Still, I really do not know

thehandicapping condition for that child

SO .. in my mind ..SO is about providing a place where everyone with a

handicap gets a chance to both win and lose. It is the winning that

brings hope and the losing that teaches about sportsmanship and life.

Some sports are better than others. I did my dozen years of coaching

and was proud to make the local area's coach's hall of fame.

Rick

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/22/2005 12:53:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

rdill@... writes:

You do not have to be mentally retarded to take part in spite of

Cheryl's equating developmental disability as being exactly equal to

mental retardation.

>>>>* Intellectual disabilities is synonymous with mental retardation

Cheryl in VA <<<

That is not my definition, it is a quote from the special olympic site, as

an explanation of their mission and vision statement. I just printed their

quote.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/22/2005 12:53:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

rdill@... writes:

You do not have to be mentally retarded to take part in spite of

Cheryl's equating developmental disability as being exactly equal to

mental retardation.

>>>>* Intellectual disabilities is synonymous with mental retardation

Cheryl in VA <<<

That is not my definition, it is a quote from the special olympic site, as

an explanation of their mission and vision statement. I just printed their

quote.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

I'm with you Jackie,

My first thought after reading about that extraordinary man was....MR means his

IQ is below 70 (or whatever). If he's getting A's and B's I would assume he

has at least an average IQ.

I'm not a Dr or even an expert (yet) on IQ but common sense would make you ask

yourself " How can this be " . There are many " typical- " non MR kids who don't do as

well.............

I'm glad this young man is a high achiever. Maybe HE can prove a majority of

society wrong about people with DS.

Again, I agree with Jackie, " Relax " .

Di

Re: Re: MR label

Inquisition? Where is this coming from? I thought we could ask questions?

All I wanted to know is how a person gets an MR label when they have obvious

academic talents? Relax!

Jackie

-------------- Original message --------------

>

> In a message dated 4/21/2005 8:43:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> bmitchell@... writes:

> then I think all of the DS community would be interested in knowing more

> about him

> And Barbara, if I show his mom all the posts from here, I sincerely doubt

> she will share anything with parents. I have already decided that sharing

> about my daughter on this list will change. I believe he is not the only

young

> adult doing well but maybe we don't hear more from them for this same

reason.

> Our lDS community all know him, local doctors know about him, he is very

well

> known locally. He has been on panels that local doctors at our children's

> hospital set up for resident pediatricians about DS. I am sure they just

> attribute

> his skills to the impact DS has on him individually and somehow it has a

> milder impact than on others. Which is the reality, he has genes cut off and

cut

> on

> that others don't. Each of our kids have that.

>

> We all know that some kids are affected more severly than others. This is

one

> of those cases. We do know of young adults that are actors, that drive to

> college. You mentioned Gaffney. Isn't she taking college courses?

> Didn't

> we just hear about a young lady that passed the MCAS in Massachusetts and is

> trying to get accepted in and Wales?

>

> This thread turned into one about kids with DS attending college. I gave and

> example of a local young man and WHAM ..... must not have DS, must not have

> MR, must not really be doing that well, must not, must not, must not. I am

> sure his mom will not be comfortable with an inquisition that I placed her

in!

> But she is one of the founding members of our local support group, her

family

> has been helping others since her son was born, she may respond to you as an

> indivdual. I can check.

>

> Cheryl

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm with you Jackie,

My first thought after reading about that extraordinary man was....MR means his

IQ is below 70 (or whatever). If he's getting A's and B's I would assume he

has at least an average IQ.

I'm not a Dr or even an expert (yet) on IQ but common sense would make you ask

yourself " How can this be " . There are many " typical- " non MR kids who don't do as

well.............

I'm glad this young man is a high achiever. Maybe HE can prove a majority of

society wrong about people with DS.

Again, I agree with Jackie, " Relax " .

Di

Re: Re: MR label

Inquisition? Where is this coming from? I thought we could ask questions?

All I wanted to know is how a person gets an MR label when they have obvious

academic talents? Relax!

Jackie

-------------- Original message --------------

>

> In a message dated 4/21/2005 8:43:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> bmitchell@... writes:

> then I think all of the DS community would be interested in knowing more

> about him

> And Barbara, if I show his mom all the posts from here, I sincerely doubt

> she will share anything with parents. I have already decided that sharing

> about my daughter on this list will change. I believe he is not the only

young

> adult doing well but maybe we don't hear more from them for this same

reason.

> Our lDS community all know him, local doctors know about him, he is very

well

> known locally. He has been on panels that local doctors at our children's

> hospital set up for resident pediatricians about DS. I am sure they just

> attribute

> his skills to the impact DS has on him individually and somehow it has a

> milder impact than on others. Which is the reality, he has genes cut off and

cut

> on

> that others don't. Each of our kids have that.

>

> We all know that some kids are affected more severly than others. This is

one

> of those cases. We do know of young adults that are actors, that drive to

> college. You mentioned Gaffney. Isn't she taking college courses?

> Didn't

> we just hear about a young lady that passed the MCAS in Massachusetts and is

> trying to get accepted in and Wales?

>

> This thread turned into one about kids with DS attending college. I gave and

> example of a local young man and WHAM ..... must not have DS, must not have

> MR, must not really be doing that well, must not, must not, must not. I am

> sure his mom will not be comfortable with an inquisition that I placed her

in!

> But she is one of the founding members of our local support group, her

family

> has been helping others since her son was born, she may respond to you as an

> indivdual. I can check.

>

> Cheryl

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, there has been so much on this topic, and I was away on my parent'

SLOW dial-up modem! Yikes, it was like being stranded without a paddle!

Can't help to add my 2 cents.

I think (from our experience here) that a child can test MR, yet still

really excell somewhere, for whatever reason. reads, and reads

well. We are constantly amazed, and if you saw her in 1st grade class,

reading out loud, you'd think " that kid can't have DS....... just listen

to her! " We are somnetimes a little embarassed at our local DS events

(or a friend with DS's BDay party, where after the gifts were opened,

sat down and started reading the birthday boy's books!),

because everyone makes a big deal about it. And no, it's not her parents

helping her excessively..... we've always read to her (like you have all

done, I'm sure), but nothing to excess...... she just loves books and

words. Yet, to see her skills in most other academic areas, you'd know

that the reading is a gift, but not indicative of her abilities as a

whole. She doesn't comprehend a lot of the basic 1st grade materials,

and although she can do some math, she doesn't really understand the

concepts...... she can add by counting or by memorization, but not by

understanding what adding is. She can memorize facts (and sometimes

spelling words, LOL), but coulnd't tell you what to do with those facts.

So, I believe that this young man may very well have a gift for math (as

well as an interest...... has LOVED books since she could hold

one up), and somehow he can overcome the slow learning that typically

accompanies MR in these areas (and maybe others too). is

definitely a " high achieving " kid with DS, but she is still below grade

level and learns slower, except in reading. It will be interesting

(since I finally went against my judgement and agreed to IQ test her!)

to see what she scores...... I'll let you know when I get the results

:-) but I'm sure it will be MR or thereabouts..... reading is great, but

it's not the whole package. However, it's her motivation, that's for sure!

As far as the range of abilities we see, I think of it like a bell curve

(since all our data must be in a bell curve, right, LOL). Typical kids

have a range of abilities (not necessarily linked to IQ), some at each

end, with many in the middle. I think that whatever the developmental

problems are in the brains of individuals with DS (and I havne't read

the neuron stuff yet. but can't wait...... I'm really a scientist,

disguised as a SAHM) basically " shift " that curve down the scale a bit,

and hence we see a big range of abilities in our kids with DS. Some of

our typical kids are gifted, others struggle academically, so why not

our kids with DS? As a wise genetecist once reminded me a little over 7

years ago.... " People with DS have much more of the same genes than the

rest of us than different " . In other words, yes, there is certainly an

impact from the extra genetic material from the extra chromosome 21.

This happens during fetal development, and probably after as well. Yet,

the rest of the 22 pair of chromosomes are just like everyone else, and

so we should expect them to contribute to a wide range of

characterisitcs, such as IQ, personality, looks, skills, etc. I don't

think we can really " summarize " the abilites of people with DS (or

individuals with MR) any more than typical people.

Well, it's been an interesting thread, and certainly timely for us in

our IQ testing decision!

, mom to (9), (7 DS), and (5)

..

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, there has been so much on this topic, and I was away on my parent'

SLOW dial-up modem! Yikes, it was like being stranded without a paddle!

Can't help to add my 2 cents.

I think (from our experience here) that a child can test MR, yet still

really excell somewhere, for whatever reason. reads, and reads

well. We are constantly amazed, and if you saw her in 1st grade class,

reading out loud, you'd think " that kid can't have DS....... just listen

to her! " We are somnetimes a little embarassed at our local DS events

(or a friend with DS's BDay party, where after the gifts were opened,

sat down and started reading the birthday boy's books!),

because everyone makes a big deal about it. And no, it's not her parents

helping her excessively..... we've always read to her (like you have all

done, I'm sure), but nothing to excess...... she just loves books and

words. Yet, to see her skills in most other academic areas, you'd know

that the reading is a gift, but not indicative of her abilities as a

whole. She doesn't comprehend a lot of the basic 1st grade materials,

and although she can do some math, she doesn't really understand the

concepts...... she can add by counting or by memorization, but not by

understanding what adding is. She can memorize facts (and sometimes

spelling words, LOL), but coulnd't tell you what to do with those facts.

So, I believe that this young man may very well have a gift for math (as

well as an interest...... has LOVED books since she could hold

one up), and somehow he can overcome the slow learning that typically

accompanies MR in these areas (and maybe others too). is

definitely a " high achieving " kid with DS, but she is still below grade

level and learns slower, except in reading. It will be interesting

(since I finally went against my judgement and agreed to IQ test her!)

to see what she scores...... I'll let you know when I get the results

:-) but I'm sure it will be MR or thereabouts..... reading is great, but

it's not the whole package. However, it's her motivation, that's for sure!

As far as the range of abilities we see, I think of it like a bell curve

(since all our data must be in a bell curve, right, LOL). Typical kids

have a range of abilities (not necessarily linked to IQ), some at each

end, with many in the middle. I think that whatever the developmental

problems are in the brains of individuals with DS (and I havne't read

the neuron stuff yet. but can't wait...... I'm really a scientist,

disguised as a SAHM) basically " shift " that curve down the scale a bit,

and hence we see a big range of abilities in our kids with DS. Some of

our typical kids are gifted, others struggle academically, so why not

our kids with DS? As a wise genetecist once reminded me a little over 7

years ago.... " People with DS have much more of the same genes than the

rest of us than different " . In other words, yes, there is certainly an

impact from the extra genetic material from the extra chromosome 21.

This happens during fetal development, and probably after as well. Yet,

the rest of the 22 pair of chromosomes are just like everyone else, and

so we should expect them to contribute to a wide range of

characterisitcs, such as IQ, personality, looks, skills, etc. I don't

think we can really " summarize " the abilites of people with DS (or

individuals with MR) any more than typical people.

Well, it's been an interesting thread, and certainly timely for us in

our IQ testing decision!

, mom to (9), (7 DS), and (5)

..

>

>