Re: Re: MR label

[Guest guest]

>

> PS: Don't forget that with the raised expectations for persons with DS,

we

> are hearing of more and more of them attending college, both 2 and 4 year.

> Are they MR? I doubt it! There are multiple intelligences, not just

those

> measured by and IQ test.

Well, the ones I know have MR and their parents do not have a problem with

that label. Colleges are creating programs for those young adults with

developmental disabilities - the young woman with DS featured on the home

page of Upsndowns at groups just got accepted into Mason

University (and she so badly wanted to go to college like her friends). Her

mother had told me several months ago that they had a program for young

adults with developmental disabilities. While raised expectations have been

the norm for a number of years, the reality is few people with DS test in

the normal range of intelligence. What I have seen in the past few years is

that more people with DS are going to a college. What I want to know is if

the IEP remains in place intil age 22 and if the local school system funds

their college fees.

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[Guest guest]

>

> PS: Don't forget that with the raised expectations for persons with DS,

we

> are hearing of more and more of them attending college, both 2 and 4 year.

> Are they MR? I doubt it! There are multiple intelligences, not just

those

> measured by and IQ test.

Well, the ones I know have MR and their parents do not have a problem with

that label. Colleges are creating programs for those young adults with

developmental disabilities - the young woman with DS featured on the home

page of Upsndowns at groups just got accepted into Mason

University (and she so badly wanted to go to college like her friends). Her

mother had told me several months ago that they had a program for young

adults with developmental disabilities. While raised expectations have been

the norm for a number of years, the reality is few people with DS test in

the normal range of intelligence. What I have seen in the past few years is

that more people with DS are going to a college. What I want to know is if

the IEP remains in place intil age 22 and if the local school system funds

their college fees.

---

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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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[Guest guest]

Don't forget that labels can be changed. So a child that does not have an MR

label in elementary can go thru testing at the end of high school and if

testing indicates MR, the label can be changed and they have what they need to

receive services from the community after school.

IQ is not supposed to be the only factor in determining MR but that is what

most school systems depend on. Many times IQ is not used in a manner to help

the student but as a way to segregate them.

My daughter attended college courses that were designed for adults with very

little DD. (Courses were designed for varying degrees of DD) She has a friend

with DS that is taking regular community college classes and his lowest grade

is a B. These are math and computer courses. He has no accommodations. His

label in school was MR.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

Don't forget that labels can be changed. So a child that does not have an MR

label in elementary can go thru testing at the end of high school and if

testing indicates MR, the label can be changed and they have what they need to

receive services from the community after school.

IQ is not supposed to be the only factor in determining MR but that is what

most school systems depend on. Many times IQ is not used in a manner to help

the student but as a way to segregate them.

My daughter attended college courses that were designed for adults with very

little DD. (Courses were designed for varying degrees of DD) She has a friend

with DS that is taking regular community college classes and his lowest grade

is a B. These are math and computer courses. He has no accommodations. His

label in school was MR.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/17/2005 10:45:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

donwilhelm@... writes:

PS: Don't forget that with the raised expectations for persons with DS, we

are hearing of more and more of them attending college, both 2 and 4 year.

Are they MR? I doubt it! There are multiple intelligences, not just those

measured by and IQ test.

Thanks, Paige mom to Ben w/DS

------

there are 2 year college programs (at community colleges) cropping up for

students with a range of disabilities including MR

Check out the Challenge Program at Montgomery College in land

http://www.mc.cc.md.us/Departments/cedeptrv/ce_academ_work_prep.html

- Becky

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/17/2005 10:45:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

donwilhelm@... writes:

PS: Don't forget that with the raised expectations for persons with DS, we

are hearing of more and more of them attending college, both 2 and 4 year.

Are they MR? I doubt it! There are multiple intelligences, not just those

measured by and IQ test.

Thanks, Paige mom to Ben w/DS

------

there are 2 year college programs (at community colleges) cropping up for

students with a range of disabilities including MR

Check out the Challenge Program at Montgomery College in land

http://www.mc.cc.md.us/Departments/cedeptrv/ce_academ_work_prep.html

- Becky

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/17/2005 11:10:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

cindysue@... writes:

What I want to know is if

the IEP remains in place intil age 22 and if the local school system funds

Excellent question!!!

Loree

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/17/2005 11:10:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

cindysue@... writes:

What I want to know is if

the IEP remains in place intil age 22 and if the local school system funds

Excellent question!!!

Loree

[Guest guest]

cindysue@... writes:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

PS: Don't forget that with the raised expectations for persons with DS,

we

>> are hearing of more and more of them attending college, both 2 and 4 year. >

Are they MR? I doubt it! There are multiple intelligences, not just those >

measured by and IQ test.

>

>

Well, the ones I know have MR and their parents do not have a problem with that

label. Colleges are creating programs for those young adults with developmental

disabilities - the young woman with DS featured on the home page of Upsndowns at

groups just got accepted into Mason University (and she so badly

wanted to go to college like her friends). Her

mother had told me several months ago that they had a program for young adults

with developmental disabilities. While raised expectations have been the norm

for a number of years, the reality is few people with DS test in the normal

range of intelligence.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Thanks , for speaking out.

First I applaud the colleges that create programs for our kids .. and

also for the special programs who allow them in. That said, I am rather

wary of whether the young adults with DS who have attended / graduated

from college / junior college are properly represented. Sometimes, the

" EEK, my child has no handicap " lasts until college years. Other times

the reality is that the young adult in college isn't either supported

beyond belief or isn't not traditional trisomy 21.

While the achievements of those young adults is to be respected with

awe, we also need to come down to reality with our children .. or young

adults.

I have to look at my own daughter and her peers. They were the part of

the first generation to get a good education (usually special education,

but teaching them to their personal limits .. a real IEP). Some of

these kids (now adults) graduated from high school (well, a couple of

them). A number tested at or close to boundary for simply declaring

them " low normal " rather than MR ..[LD to use the term when they were in

school]. A number of them went on to programs after high school to

train them for independence and " careers " . Some are kids you have heard

of or seen on Sesame Street and others you have never heard of.

Today, only two of that crop are living independently (defined as living

in your own place .. with supports from counsellors or family). They

are all my friends and wonderful people, but all of them (well maybe

there is an exception or two) are clearly in the MR .. (below 70 IQ)

range of function. It's OK. What's the big deal? One has to look at

what kind of people they are .. and that is the good side!

Where is this rumored person who has DS, has attended college and grad

school, and is now engaged in a full professional career, married, and

with kids? The answer is always that she/he doesn't want their privacy

violated. Well if it were violated, wouldn't it be a real achievement

for our community? I just don't get it.

Rick .. who sent his wife and daughter home today. One of their tasks

is to go through our three boxes of records and find proof that Jan is

actually MR, so that she can move to California with confidence that she

will get services appropriate to her 32 year old needs.

[Guest guest]

cindysue@... writes:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

PS: Don't forget that with the raised expectations for persons with DS,

we

>> are hearing of more and more of them attending college, both 2 and 4 year. >

Are they MR? I doubt it! There are multiple intelligences, not just those >

measured by and IQ test.

>

>

Well, the ones I know have MR and their parents do not have a problem with that

label. Colleges are creating programs for those young adults with developmental

disabilities - the young woman with DS featured on the home page of Upsndowns at

groups just got accepted into Mason University (and she so badly

wanted to go to college like her friends). Her

mother had told me several months ago that they had a program for young adults

with developmental disabilities. While raised expectations have been the norm

for a number of years, the reality is few people with DS test in the normal

range of intelligence.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Thanks , for speaking out.

First I applaud the colleges that create programs for our kids .. and

also for the special programs who allow them in. That said, I am rather

wary of whether the young adults with DS who have attended / graduated

from college / junior college are properly represented. Sometimes, the

" EEK, my child has no handicap " lasts until college years. Other times

the reality is that the young adult in college isn't either supported

beyond belief or isn't not traditional trisomy 21.

While the achievements of those young adults is to be respected with

awe, we also need to come down to reality with our children .. or young

adults.

I have to look at my own daughter and her peers. They were the part of

the first generation to get a good education (usually special education,

but teaching them to their personal limits .. a real IEP). Some of

these kids (now adults) graduated from high school (well, a couple of

them). A number tested at or close to boundary for simply declaring

them " low normal " rather than MR ..[LD to use the term when they were in

school]. A number of them went on to programs after high school to

train them for independence and " careers " . Some are kids you have heard

of or seen on Sesame Street and others you have never heard of.

Today, only two of that crop are living independently (defined as living

in your own place .. with supports from counsellors or family). They

are all my friends and wonderful people, but all of them (well maybe

there is an exception or two) are clearly in the MR .. (below 70 IQ)

range of function. It's OK. What's the big deal? One has to look at

what kind of people they are .. and that is the good side!

Where is this rumored person who has DS, has attended college and grad

school, and is now engaged in a full professional career, married, and

with kids? The answer is always that she/he doesn't want their privacy

violated. Well if it were violated, wouldn't it be a real achievement

for our community? I just don't get it.

Rick .. who sent his wife and daughter home today. One of their tasks

is to go through our three boxes of records and find proof that Jan is

actually MR, so that she can move to California with confidence that she

will get services appropriate to her 32 year old needs.

[Guest guest]

Just to clarify my earlier post about my daughter's friend .... he is MR, he

is Trisomy 21, he is attending regular community college math and computer

classes with no modifications or accommodations and he is making A's and B's.

He

was featured in full page article in our local newspaper when he graduated

from high school after passing all the required courses and the state assessment

required for standard diploma. His support comes from home. My daughter, also

Trisomy 21 passed a large number of high school classes with no modifications

(including Driver's Ed) and also passed the state assessment required for

standard diploma. She did take that test in parts instead of all the same day,

to make it less stressful for her and give her more time. That was allowable

for any student, not just those with disabilities.

So there are young adults with DS out there doing all kinds of things!

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

Just to clarify my earlier post about my daughter's friend .... he is MR, he

is Trisomy 21, he is attending regular community college math and computer

classes with no modifications or accommodations and he is making A's and B's.

He

was featured in full page article in our local newspaper when he graduated

from high school after passing all the required courses and the state assessment

required for standard diploma. His support comes from home. My daughter, also

Trisomy 21 passed a large number of high school classes with no modifications

(including Driver's Ed) and also passed the state assessment required for

standard diploma. She did take that test in parts instead of all the same day,

to make it less stressful for her and give her more time. That was allowable

for any student, not just those with disabilities.

So there are young adults with DS out there doing all kinds of things!

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

How can a young man-- who is MR-- take college math and computer classes with no

modifications or accomodations? I do not understand this. If he is able to

take these classes and do the work, how can he possibly be MR? I can't

believe he just works harder-- these subjects are very difficult and take more

than hard work-- they take an average or above average intelligence. I would

have a hard time myself in these classes.

Barbara (mom of Mark, DS, 17)

Re: re: Re: Re: MR label

Just to clarify my earlier post about my daughter's friend .... he is MR, he

is Trisomy 21, he is attending regular community college math and computer

classes with no modifications or accommodations and he is making A's and B's.

He

was featured in full page article in our local newspaper when he graduated

from high school after passing all the required courses and the state

assessment

required for standard diploma. His support comes from home. My daughter, also

Trisomy 21 passed a large number of high school classes with no modifications

(including Driver's Ed) and also passed the state assessment required for

standard diploma. She did take that test in parts instead of all the same

day,

to make it less stressful for her and give her more time. That was allowable

for any student, not just those with disabilities.

So there are young adults with DS out there doing all kinds of things!

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

How can a young man-- who is MR-- take college math and computer classes with no

modifications or accomodations? I do not understand this. If he is able to

take these classes and do the work, how can he possibly be MR? I can't

believe he just works harder-- these subjects are very difficult and take more

than hard work-- they take an average or above average intelligence. I would

have a hard time myself in these classes.

Barbara (mom of Mark, DS, 17)

Re: re: Re: Re: MR label

Just to clarify my earlier post about my daughter's friend .... he is MR, he

is Trisomy 21, he is attending regular community college math and computer

classes with no modifications or accommodations and he is making A's and B's.

He

was featured in full page article in our local newspaper when he graduated

from high school after passing all the required courses and the state

assessment

required for standard diploma. His support comes from home. My daughter, also

Trisomy 21 passed a large number of high school classes with no modifications

(including Driver's Ed) and also passed the state assessment required for

standard diploma. She did take that test in parts instead of all the same

day,

to make it less stressful for her and give her more time. That was allowable

for any student, not just those with disabilities.

So there are young adults with DS out there doing all kinds of things!

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

This is very encouraging to hear. I am interested in what methods or curriculum

was used in teaching reading. I donot think that Kaitlyn is progressing in

reading as she could and would like some suggestions. Does your daughter read

at grade level or is she able to get by with a lower level of reading?

Unfortunately, we live in a district, in fact most of the state is in the dark

ages where education is concerned. I am looking for information that I might

share with our team and hopefully they will be willing to try something new. If

not, perhaps I can get it myself and use it at home.

Thanks for any input. Darcy

Re: re: Re: Re: MR label

Just to clarify my earlier post about my daughter's friend .... he is MR, he

is Trisomy 21, he is attending regular community college math and computer

classes with no modifications or accommodations and he is making A's and B's.

He

was featured in full page article in our local newspaper when he graduated

from high school after passing all the required courses and the state

assessment

required for standard diploma. His support comes from home. My daughter, also

Trisomy 21 passed a large number of high school classes with no modifications

(including Driver's Ed) and also passed the state assessment required for

standard diploma. She did take that test in parts instead of all the same

day,

to make it less stressful for her and give her more time. That was allowable

for any student, not just those with disabilities.

So there are young adults with DS out there doing all kinds of things!

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

This is very encouraging to hear. I am interested in what methods or curriculum

was used in teaching reading. I donot think that Kaitlyn is progressing in

reading as she could and would like some suggestions. Does your daughter read

at grade level or is she able to get by with a lower level of reading?

Unfortunately, we live in a district, in fact most of the state is in the dark

ages where education is concerned. I am looking for information that I might

share with our team and hopefully they will be willing to try something new. If

not, perhaps I can get it myself and use it at home.

Thanks for any input. Darcy

Re: re: Re: Re: MR label

Just to clarify my earlier post about my daughter's friend .... he is MR, he

is Trisomy 21, he is attending regular community college math and computer

classes with no modifications or accommodations and he is making A's and B's.

He

was featured in full page article in our local newspaper when he graduated

from high school after passing all the required courses and the state

assessment

required for standard diploma. His support comes from home. My daughter, also

Trisomy 21 passed a large number of high school classes with no modifications

(including Driver's Ed) and also passed the state assessment required for

standard diploma. She did take that test in parts instead of all the same

day,

to make it less stressful for her and give her more time. That was allowable

for any student, not just those with disabilities.

So there are young adults with DS out there doing all kinds of things!

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

He does and he works 32 hours a week at the local Y. His dad was a math

teacher so I am sure that helps. In order to get his high school diploma he had

to

pass Algebra I, Algebra II, and Geometry. I am confident that Stefanie could

also take some courses at the community college and pass also. I think

people with MR are doing more and more.

If you want me to check our local paper's archives and find the article on

him from high school graduation, I will be happy to do so.

Our local community college will not accept students (first, you must pass an

admissions test) that cannot show they will " benefit " from the classes. Some

could say it is harder for a person to get in because they must prove they

will benefit from the classes.

In college there are no modifications and the students with disabilities must

talk to their professors about whatever accommodations they may need.

What also might be interesting to you is this young man lives in what we

refer to as Downtown in our major city, Norfolk. He walks to work, walks to

college (most of the time) walks to the mall near his home and to the movies

there.

I don't want you to think he is perfectly normal, there are times he needs

help, there are areas he is not as sophisticated as people without DS. My

daughter loves to tease him because she can ride a bike and he cannot. ;-)

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

He does and he works 32 hours a week at the local Y. His dad was a math

teacher so I am sure that helps. In order to get his high school diploma he had

to

pass Algebra I, Algebra II, and Geometry. I am confident that Stefanie could

also take some courses at the community college and pass also. I think

people with MR are doing more and more.

If you want me to check our local paper's archives and find the article on

him from high school graduation, I will be happy to do so.

Our local community college will not accept students (first, you must pass an

admissions test) that cannot show they will " benefit " from the classes. Some

could say it is harder for a person to get in because they must prove they

will benefit from the classes.

In college there are no modifications and the students with disabilities must

talk to their professors about whatever accommodations they may need.

What also might be interesting to you is this young man lives in what we

refer to as Downtown in our major city, Norfolk. He walks to work, walks to

college (most of the time) walks to the mall near his home and to the movies

there.

I don't want you to think he is perfectly normal, there are times he needs

help, there are areas he is not as sophisticated as people without DS. My

daughter loves to tease him because she can ride a bike and he cannot. ;-)

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

Yes, I would like to read the newspaper article. I can believe he is a

talented young man, and capable of many things, but I do not see how someone

who is truly MR can take college math and computer courses with no help and

get A's and B's as you wrote before. I would like to write to his father and

ask him more about this. Maybe the father would write a book for the rest of us

struggling to help our kids understand math.

Thanks, Cheryl.

Barbara

Re: re: Re: Re: MR label

He does and he works 32 hours a week at the local Y. His dad was a math

teacher so I am sure that helps. In order to get his high school diploma he

had to

pass Algebra I, Algebra II, and Geometry. I am confident that Stefanie could

also take some courses at the community college and pass also. I think

people with MR are doing more and more.

If you want me to check our local paper's archives and find the article on

him from high school graduation, I will be happy to do so.

Our local community college will not accept students (first, you must pass an

admissions test) that cannot show they will " benefit " from the classes. Some

could say it is harder for a person to get in because they must prove they

will benefit from the classes.

In college there are no modifications and the students with disabilities must

talk to their professors about whatever accommodations they may need.

What also might be interesting to you is this young man lives in what we

refer to as Downtown in our major city, Norfolk. He walks to work, walks to

college (most of the time) walks to the mall near his home and to the movies

there.

I don't want you to think he is perfectly normal, there are times he needs

help, there are areas he is not as sophisticated as people without DS. My

daughter loves to tease him because she can ride a bike and he cannot. ;-)

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

Yes, I would like to read the newspaper article. I can believe he is a

talented young man, and capable of many things, but I do not see how someone

who is truly MR can take college math and computer courses with no help and

get A's and B's as you wrote before. I would like to write to his father and

ask him more about this. Maybe the father would write a book for the rest of us

struggling to help our kids understand math.

Thanks, Cheryl.

Barbara

Re: re: Re: Re: MR label

He does and he works 32 hours a week at the local Y. His dad was a math

teacher so I am sure that helps. In order to get his high school diploma he

had to

pass Algebra I, Algebra II, and Geometry. I am confident that Stefanie could

also take some courses at the community college and pass also. I think

people with MR are doing more and more.

If you want me to check our local paper's archives and find the article on

him from high school graduation, I will be happy to do so.

Our local community college will not accept students (first, you must pass an

admissions test) that cannot show they will " benefit " from the classes. Some

could say it is harder for a person to get in because they must prove they

will benefit from the classes.

In college there are no modifications and the students with disabilities must

talk to their professors about whatever accommodations they may need.

What also might be interesting to you is this young man lives in what we

refer to as Downtown in our major city, Norfolk. He walks to work, walks to

college (most of the time) walks to the mall near his home and to the movies

there.

I don't want you to think he is perfectly normal, there are times he needs

help, there are areas he is not as sophisticated as people without DS. My

daughter loves to tease him because she can ride a bike and he cannot. ;-)

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

> Thanks , for speaking out.

>

> First I applaud the colleges that create programs for our kids .. and

> also for the special programs who allow them in.

And I thank the parents who helped these colleges create such programs.

When was an infant, we went to an EI conference where a midwest

couple helped create a program for their son who had autism. That was over

10 years ago and it's good to hear that other colleges are catching on.

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[Guest guest]

> Thanks , for speaking out.

>

> First I applaud the colleges that create programs for our kids .. and

> also for the special programs who allow them in.

And I thank the parents who helped these colleges create such programs.

When was an infant, we went to an EI conference where a midwest

couple helped create a program for their son who had autism. That was over

10 years ago and it's good to hear that other colleges are catching on.

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 2/15/2005

[Guest guest]

Do any of your children participate in Special Olympics? We have athletes

here who do not have DS but are MR and they are living on their own, working,

etc. Maybe my exposure to adults with MR higher than many on this list. I see

them through my work as well as at Special Olympics and other programs. At the

special courses my daughter took at our local community, some of the people

with MR in her classes drove themselves to campus.

My point in talking about this young man is not to brag about his

accomplishments but to let you know there are young adults doing many things

most people

would not think them capable of. It's not to have people compare their child

or any other but to let people know that there are kids with T21 making great

strides.

Our kids are all different. Their genetic makeup is different, their

eduational opportunities are different, their motivation is different, and the

way

they are affected by DS is different.

We should celebrate their accomplishments, whatever they are, not be dismayed

by them.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

Do any of your children participate in Special Olympics? We have athletes

here who do not have DS but are MR and they are living on their own, working,

etc. Maybe my exposure to adults with MR higher than many on this list. I see

them through my work as well as at Special Olympics and other programs. At the

special courses my daughter took at our local community, some of the people

with MR in her classes drove themselves to campus.

My point in talking about this young man is not to brag about his

accomplishments but to let you know there are young adults doing many things

most people

would not think them capable of. It's not to have people compare their child

or any other but to let people know that there are kids with T21 making great

strides.

Our kids are all different. Their genetic makeup is different, their

eduational opportunities are different, their motivation is different, and the

way

they are affected by DS is different.

We should celebrate their accomplishments, whatever they are, not be dismayed

by them.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/19/2005 9:16:45 PM US Mountain Standard Time,

wildwards@... writes:

We should celebrate their accomplishments, whatever they are, not be dismayed

by them.

Yes, we should. And I do. I love it when Maverick makes me proud, which is

often. But I work so hard to teach him and to make sure he has opportunity to

grow and learn and be successful in this world. And he just isn't making

it. I mean, he's moving at his pace, learning, way below grade level, but

learning. And then I read about kids/adults who are so successful, so

independent,

so " high functioning " . There are a couple kids on Mav's baseball team with

DS whose parents do minimal work with them. And they are both much higher

functioning than Mav.

It's HARD not to be dismayed when you work so hard and your child works so

hard and you still can't reach those goals.

M.