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Dear List,

>Does anyone have any feedback about the quality of GNC products?

Sandy...we have a gold card and had bought the GNC variety for years...then

we got a bit smarter. If you want good vitamins...SHAKLEE makes food

derived vitamins and they are bound to be operating in Canada...am I wrong?

I guess I could be, Canada is farther along than the US in terms of the NWO

schedule. In any case, food derived vitamins are the way to go. I am sure

you will get more specific suggestions from others. We have been happy with

SOLGAR,

THOMPSONS, NATURE'S PLUS, and there are a lot more available.

Getting the right kind of supplement is real important...we can shoot

ourselves in the foot very easily with unatural supplements. Juicing live

foods is probably the best way to get what we need. Super green foods will

supply a wonderful amount of necessary nutrition...we all ought to be using

a good one.

God Bless,

15:8-9

This people draweth nigh unto me

with their mouth, and honoureth me

with their lips; but their heart is far

from me. But in vain they do worship

me, teaching for doctrines the

commandments of men.

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  • 5 years later...
  • 1 month later...

Dear Vilik, I always knew you were a woman, Tell me WHY the game,

I am just blunt old me, I want lay it on the line answers. WHy the other

way?

to each its own, but for me I like to be me, woman, mother wife,grandma,

44 year old aging cheerleader type,

susan

the chamber maid

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  • 3 weeks later...

I am not an expert but I have shopped at GNC for a number of years and as a

rule, I find their products equal to other sources. Of course, they are

strong on products dealing with diet and exercise.

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In a message dated 1/7/99 9:12:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,

details51@... writes:

<< Does anyone have any feedback about the quality of GNC products? >>

I have no experience with GNC private label products but I would be shocked if

they are making it themselves. Many companies actually go to competitors to

have products made and labeled. This is one issue to consider whenever buying

any store name brand, regardless of industry. The supplement industry is one

of the scariest ones because they really have no regulation. Its not that I

am in favor of some big governmental agency stepping in, but it would be good

to really know that labels are at least accurate. So I personally use Solgar,

they've been around a very long time and I have only heard good things about

them.

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  • 5 weeks later...

I came across the following at: http://www.ceri.com/mito2.htm a fascinating

article on Mitochondria, Hypothyroidism

and Weight Loss.

The Balance Between Free Radicals and Antioxidants

For decades, evidence has been accumulating that hydrogen peroxide is

necessary for the

production of thyroid hormone. It seems highly likely that hydrogen peroxide

is required to

“activate” iodine for the iodination of tyrosine. Although antioxidants are

clearly necessary to

protect thyroid cells from the deleterious effects of the oxidative stress

of this process, it is vital

that they not interfere with the iodination process itself. At sufficiently

high levels, some

antioxidants may very well be capable of quenching key iodination

free-radical intermediates and

might thereby inhibit thyroid hormone production, lower basal metabolic

rate, and impair weight

loss and/or cause weight gain. We will be discussing this possibility in

more detail in a future

article.

jim :)

--

jim@... http://www.doorway.to/madscience

http://www.doorway.to/poetry ICQ:16531148

amicus certus in re incerta

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Hotmail has recurring problems.

I have experienced them my self.

You might have to wait a day or two for

hotmail to just fix things with their servers.

dan

(no subject)

>From: " sandy green " <details51@...>

>

>To the list,

>

>My computer has been out for repair and I now have 123 messages to sort

>through. The problem is that it's taking approx. 30-50 seconds to delete

>a message or move on to the next one. At this rate, I'll never move on,

>not to mention keep my computer in tact (I want to kill it).I have

>another email site which is operating very normally. Hotmail takes

>forever to respond to these problems. Is anyone else experiencing this

>with Hotmail?

>

>Sandy Green

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

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  • 1 month later...
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Guest guest

Patty

I have known that there was something going on for awhile but didn't know

what it was. There was a program on tv that I was watching that talked

about it. They described her to a T. I started watching her more. When I

talked about it with her, telling her what I thought was going on, she

didn't want to believe me at first. She would tell me that she couldn't

help what was going on. She told me that it was like there was a voice

telling her, in her head, that she wasn't clean. Even though she knew she

should be. Then she would tell me she did it because she liked it. Now she

just wants to be over it.

We went out of town for Spring break, to see family in Colorado. She did so

good there. My mom said that if she didn't know better she would have never

known she had ocd. She is still doing real good. She asks us if we

notice. It makes her feel so good.

It has helped her relationship with her brother also.

She didn't want to believe it at first. Now since we have found out there

are so many others out there that are going through the same thing we are

able to talk about it freely with her.

(no subject)

>From: Patty <snafuhayes@...>

>

>Hello list!

>I'm glad to hear there are others out there with 13 year old children with

>OCD. To Kathy: I can't seem to tell whether my daughter realizes just

exactly

>what she's doing. I ask her about why she has to go up and down our stairs

5

>or 6 times to get it just right but she never seems to have an answer for

me.

>She smiles at me and says she just likes to do it. Is this denial?

>I have the book Kissing Doorknobs on my bookcase for her to read at her

>initiative but so far she won't look at it. I noticed Tammy has joined the

>list. Tammy, does your daughter recocgnize what she is doing to herself?

If

>so, did she recocgnize she had a problem on her own or did you help her?

My

>daughter " " doesn't seem to think there is anything wrong. Also to

Jim -

>could you please tell me the McMaster web site you posted. I wrote it down

>but misplaced it. I live in Canada and would also like to find out about

the

>resources available here. Take care everyone.

>Patty

>

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Welcome, Patty!

Patty wrote:

>

> From: Patty <snafuhayes@...>

>

> Hello list.

> My name is Patty. I have been viewing this list for some time now to get an

> idea of how everyone else is coping with OCD. I have a 13 your old daughter

> who is exhibiting some OCD behaviour. She started washing her hands a couple

> of years ago till they almost bled. She doesn't do that anymore. She is now

> in the repetative mode. She can't do anything just once. Although it doesn't

> seem to bother her it annoys the rest of us who have to live with her. I hope

> that didn't sound mean!

No, it doesn't! I come from a family full of disorders, and, believe

me, one person's symptom can drive others nuts. It can be a real

challenge to live together peacefully.

fran

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Patty

We had times when it didn't go to well, but for now thing are looking up.

My children are getting along great, like they once did. I thank God for

that.

I try not to miss a day when I don't give her a big hug and tell her that I

love her. She gets the biggest grin on her face. She has told me that she

really like this. I do too. My son is 17 but is open with me also. We are

a very loving family. We are always telling each other that we love each

other. It has helped in keeping us close.

I hope things go well with you and your family. Hopefully there will come a

time when your daughter realizes what she has and wants help. Sometimes

that day seems like it will never come. Hang in there.

Happy Easter

Tammy

(no subject)

>From: Patty <snafuhayes@...>

>

>Tammy

>

>I'm glad to hear that your daughter felt close enough to you to recognize

and

>talk to you about her ocd. I think family support is everything and I wish

>'s older sister (17) would be as open and willing to help her sister

as

>much as your son does. I'm keeping my eyes open and my fingers crossed for

my

>daughter to come to me freely.

>

>Happy Easter everyone and take care!

>

>Patty

>

>____________________________________________________________________

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http://webmail.netscape.com.

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Also to Jim -

could you please tell me the McMaster web site you posted. I wrote it down

but misplaced it. I live in Canada and would also like to find out about

the resources available here. Take care everyone.

>Patty-

Sorry for the delay, i have been out-of-town.

http://www-fhs.mcmaster.ca/direct/ -Check out the Anxiety Resource link.

BTW I received an acknowlegement from Dr. Swinson after sending him a copy

of my post to this List.

Jim

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Dear ,

Arrange some ozone treatment for her.

Regards,

Noel.

Noel

89 Royal Parade

P O Box 137

Parkville VIC 3052

Australia

Telephone 03 9347 8444

International 613 9347 8444

Fax 03 9347 8850

International 613 9347 850

Email noelc@...

Home Page www.smile.org.au

Sapere Aude: Dare to be wise.

All truth goes through three stages.

First it is ridiculed

Then it is violently opposed

Finally it is accepted as self evident.

Schopenhauer.

(no subject)

From: Baskins <BSBaskins@...>

Is there a particular website or egroup that deals mainly with systemic

candida healing or alleviation or cleansing? My mother in Chicago has

been battling this for years with limited success. Any information or

guidance would be appreciated. Help!

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Have your physician test for adequate digestion. He may recommend

betaine hydrochloride and some enzymes.

Baskins wrote:

>

> From: Baskins <BSBaskins@...>

>

> Is there a particular website or egroup that deals mainly with systemic

> candida healing or alleviation or cleansing? My mother in Chicago has

> been battling this for years with limited success. Any information or

> guidance would be appreciated. Help!

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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> http://www.ONElist.com

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>

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>

> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are

for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information

we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk.

Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take

responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold

yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here

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>

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My husband calls it " tripping " as in " Ava stop tripping and get ready for

school ! " . I have heard myself say over and over " you don't have time to sit and

stare, get ready " . So yeah, I'm

familiar with this one. Ava has had picture check lists of tasks to get out of

the house (when she couldn't read) written check lists posted in two places, as

she got older I gave her the

list of tasks and a clock and let her figure out what time each could take and

her still be ready. I've used egg timers, incentives,

consequences...everything. My experience is it works

some of the time for periods of time. OCD waxes and wanes, meds work and then

not. Right now she's 11 and I find that what is currently working is to give

her a lot of structure and

responsibility in the morning so she can't even begin to sit and stare. I don't

remind her of the time and I don't raise my voice - I just stay out of it. She

gets up at 6:30, takes the dog

for a short walk to the corner and back, showers and dresses, makes her own

breakfast, does the dishes, brushes her teeth, does her hair, gathers her

bookbag, takes the dog on the long walk

to the end of the block and back and is sitting in the car by 7:45. If any of

these things get left out I say " I too have a hard time being efficient, usually

when I'm overtired, you can go

to bed a half hour earlier tonight and we'll see if that helps " . If it doesn't

help, it's an hour earlier the next night. She really does need a lot of sleep

so it actually does help and it

helps me stay calm and neutral.

Morning problems are a part of most parent's life but it can definitley be

trickier for parents of OCDers.

Dana

Patty wrote:

> From: Patty <snafuhayes@...>

>

> Hi everyone. I'm finally able to read all the mail and am happy to see some

> new members. Although the stories are heartbreaking, we can all certainly

> relate. 's teacher approached me with something called " Primary

> Obsessional Slowness " . I know I read this somewhere in one of the books I

> researched about OCD but I don't remember too much about it. He thought it

> might relate to what is going through. A lot of the things she used to

> do and some of the things she does now seem to fit. Does anyone else know

> about this side of OCD? still takes " forever " to get ready for school.

> I have put time limits to everything she does to keep her on time at school,

> at least. If I don't time her she'll sit in front of her mirror and just sit

> there and stare at herself until I call her to go to school. No wonder she

> was late so often! Some good news though, her report came home with some

> improvement, thank goodness. Her teacher has helped her greatly because he

> knows she needs more time to answer test questions because she answering them

> several times. At least he gets it! OK, enough from me. Again, welcome new

> members. We are here for each other. Take care!

> Patty

>

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest guest

Dear Theresa: I have a 16 year old daughter who also had a particularly bad

week in school partly because of the bombing in Colorado. She has been

having rapid heart beats which may be panic attacks. She also, the week

before, was home and missed two days of school. As a result, she was behind

in school. Having to make up several tests and the talk of the bombing

escalated her ocd. On Friday, she asked to come home as she was crying and

saying her ocd was out of control. Do you parents out there ever feel that

it seems as if whenever your child seems to be doing well, thats when all of

sudden their ocd is out of control? I can write on this list one day that my

child is doing well and then the next week, it is the exact opposite. Also

when I tried to organize her when she came home, she got resentful. I think

she wanted more sympathy and less help with her school work and tests.

Isn't it our jobs to keep them from feeling sorry for themselves. I

try to be helpful but at times I think she wants me to just say, " oh, honey

don't worry about school " . I'm tired.

However, in response to someone else on this list, I surprised my

husband this weekend for a night away. We need it. Sorry for the length.

Sheree

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HI Theresa:

Wow, Ellen did some excellent bossing back of her OCD to get to school

after worrying about the Columbine school massacre. Even my non-OCD

co-workers had a hard time settling down to work after watching the news on

this tragedy; it is hard to imagine how difficult this must be for our

OCDers, especially those with violent obsessions.

Please keep us posted on how your 504 arrangements are going. My son just

went to his 504 meeting for the first time on Thursday and he handled very

well. It was hard for him but he is learning to participate in the

decisions about his treatment and school/mental health interventions. We

even had an offer from one of his 6th grade teachers to help us orient the

7th grade teachers in the Fall, and share with them techniques and

strategies she found to help Steve with his OCD in the classroom.

Take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 09:39 AM 4/24/99 -0400, you wrote:

> Hi My name is Theresa and I have a fourteen year old daughter

>who has OCD. I've been reading the e-mails and have been thinking I've

>been there and I've done that. It's so gratifying to know that there are

>other parents who are going through the same emotions and heartaches that

>my family has experienced. I read the information on the 504 plan and

>immediately investigated. For years,I've struggled with the school system

>and no one has ever said you can do this. Thanks for the information.

>Yesterday was a real crises day. Ellen wouldn't go to school. She had

>decided for the past three days that she was sick and didn't feel well.She

>had been displaying quite a lot of her OCD symptoms,but I thought it was

>because of PACT testing. When I woke her up,she wanted me to take her to

>the doctor,but I told her she didn't have anything wrong with her. She

>finally admitted she was scared because of the Columbine school

>shootings.I knew I couldn't give in to this because if I did ,she would

>try every morning. After numerous telephone calls to the principal,the

>school psychologist,the guidance counselor,and Ellen's psychologist,she

>finally made it to school at 10. I realize this is probably a little

>long,but it's nice to be able to vent to people who actually know and

>understand what it's really like.We live in S.C. Thanks,

> Theresa

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Dear Sheree - It sounds to me like the adolescent beast rearing its ugly

head! Hang in there, it does get better.....Faith

Re: (no subject)

From: SSacks9021@...

Dear Theresa and others: Help! Right now I feel so frustrated. In my

last

post, I told you all we were going away, which we did. Unfortunately we

had

to come home too. I had an incident with my daughter the evening before

we

left to go to Cape May. She was out with about 4 friends and called

around

10 pmand ll pm to ask if they could all sleep over. I said no, because

I

had work the next day. At l0 minutes to l2 (midnite) she called to ask

again. I said no and come home now. Curfew is at midnight. At 1 am we

woke

up to find all 5 kids in my den. I was amazed and appalled. To think

she

would deliberately disobey me!!! She said they planned to go to

another's

house but got locked out. I say it does not matter because she should

have

made plans at l0:00 when she first called. Now she is angry at US.

Well we

grounded her for 2 weekends and she said you can't stop me from going

out.

Is this ocd or just a beligerant adolescent? When I think of the ocd

and

all the visits to school, the nurse, the psychologist, the docs, etc.

and now

this.........its hard not to be depressed myself. It seems too much for

any

one person. Sorry, guys, just feeling really angry. Sometimes I get

resentful too. Sheree

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Hi, Theresa,

I have a very busy schedule and I'm trying to keep up with the traffic of this

mailing list. Whew! it's not easy.

My son, 16 year old, has the same problem. Once we even tried the home

schooling for two weeks. But, it was not a good idea, he just escaped from the

school and the reality. I put him back to school again. But, of course,

whenever he is behind, he does not want to go to school, because he is not ready

for test or project due's. I sometimes let him stay home, but, most of times,

he has to go. The main reason I let him stay home is because I don't want him to

embarrass even further. As it is now, he looks very funny to other students,

missing and late to classes, not to turning in homeworks, etc. It's quite

painful for a teenage who used to be a top 5% student. The 504 plan is not

working to the extent he needs. I'll talk with the school officials to press

more allowance. I don't have a lot to share other than painful strugglings.

Your note is not long. I'm glad to see that I'm not alone. Take care.

TC

" Theresa " <pudding@...> on 04/24/99 09:39:18 AM

Please respond to onelist

onelist

cc: (bcc: Tse Chao/JerseyCity/iNautix)

Subject: (no subject)

Hi

My name is Theresa and I have a fourteen year old daughter who has OCD.

I've been reading the e-mails and have been thinking I've been there and I've

done that. It's so gratifying to know that there are other parents who are going

through the same emotions and heartaches that my family has experienced.

I read the information on the 504 plan and immediately investigated. For

years,I've struggled with the school system and no one has ever said you can do

this. Thanks for the information.

Yesterday was a real crises day. Ellen wouldn't go to school. She had

decided for the past three days that she was sick and didn't feel well.She had

been displaying quite a lot of her OCD symptoms,but I thought it was because of

PACT testing. When I woke her up,she wanted me to take her to the doctor,but I

told her she didn't have anything wrong with her. She finally admitted she was

scared because of the Columbine school shootings.I knew I couldn't give in to

this because if I did ,she would try every morning. After numerous telephone

calls to the principal,the school psychologist,the guidance counselor,and

Ellen's

psychologist,she finally made it to school at 10.

I realize this is probably a little long,but it's nice to be able to vent

to people who actually know and understand what it's really like.We live in S.C.

Thanks,

Theresa

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Guest guest

Kathy,

How lucky you are. Steve's teacher understands OCD? Otherwise, how can she

help? Chris's teachers do not understand and accuse not doing homeworks.

TC

Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...> on 04/24/99 02:13:30 PM

Please respond to onelist

onelist

cc: (bcc: Tse Chao/JerseyCity/iNautix)

Subject: Re: (no subject)

From: Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...>

HI Theresa:

Wow, Ellen did some excellent bossing back of her OCD to get to school

after worrying about the Columbine school massacre. Even my non-OCD

co-workers had a hard time settling down to work after watching the news on

this tragedy; it is hard to imagine how difficult this must be for our

OCDers, especially those with violent obsessions.

Please keep us posted on how your 504 arrangements are going. My son just

went to his 504 meeting for the first time on Thursday and he handled very

well. It was hard for him but he is learning to participate in the

decisions about his treatment and school/mental health interventions. We

even had an offer from one of his 6th grade teachers to help us orient the

7th grade teachers in the Fall, and share with them techniques and

strategies she found to help Steve with his OCD in the classroom.

Take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 09:39 AM 4/24/99 -0400, you wrote:

> Hi My name is Theresa and I have a fourteen year old daughter

>who has OCD. I've been reading the e-mails and have been thinking I've

>been there and I've done that. It's so gratifying to know that there are

>other parents who are going through the same emotions and heartaches that

>my family has experienced. I read the information on the 504 plan and

>immediately investigated. For years,I've struggled with the school system

>and no one has ever said you can do this. Thanks for the information.

>Yesterday was a real crises day. Ellen wouldn't go to school. She had

>decided for the past three days that she was sick and didn't feel well.She

>had been displaying quite a lot of her OCD symptoms,but I thought it was

>because of PACT testing. When I woke her up,she wanted me to take her to

>the doctor,but I told her she didn't have anything wrong with her. She

>finally admitted she was scared because of the Columbine school

>shootings.I knew I couldn't give in to this because if I did ,she would

>try every morning. After numerous telephone calls to the principal,the

>school psychologist,the guidance counselor,and Ellen's psychologist,she

>finally made it to school at 10. I realize this is probably a little

>long,but it's nice to be able to vent to people who actually know and

>understand what it's really like.We live in S.C. Thanks,

> Theresa

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I agree to some extent that our children need to be responsible for their

actions regardless of the OCD or not. HOWEVER, I am a Mother who has OCD and

until you have had the nagging

thoughts and the scary obsessions and rituals it is impossible to understand

just how hard it is to " control " your OCD behavior.

Through Behavior Therapy my daughter and myself have learned ways of handling

our OCD but to tell me that I need to be responsible for something I truly have

no control over makes no sense.

With Behavior Therapy I have learned ways to Control my thoughts and feelings

but without it you can't expect a child to just take responsibility for her OCD.

Noelle136@... wrote:

> From: Noelle136@...

>

> Theresa,

> I commend you for teaching your daughter to be responsible for her

> behavior, OCD or not. I am working on this with my five year old. I just

> feel he needs to know that OCD or not, he is ultimately responsible for his

> actions and the effects they have. Perhaps if my husband had learned this

> lesson he would not have left us. He has chronic depression and therefore

> believes anything and everything he does is justified because he has a

> " disability " . He is destroying his family but it is not his fault due to

> depression. I will not allow my son to fall into this way of thinking. I do

> chose my battles, I am well educated about OCD, and I help him. But

> ultimately, he must learn to be responsible for his actions. In a way your

> letter was encouragement to me. To see that another is expecting this from

> and OCD child. Thank you.

> noelle

> noelle136@...

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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> http://www.ONElist.com

> Join a new ONElist e-mail community and strengthen your mind!

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Guest guest

HI TC:

SInce Steve was diagnosed he has had about ten teachers and I would say

only one, his GT Math teacher, really has any understanding of OCD.

However my son's homeroom teacher has shown a great willingness to help

share with other teachers and this is the thin end of the wedge as far as

working successfully with the school. It is definintely a step on the way

to understanding.

Have you tried talking to the teachers with a professional? This has been

invaluable to us. Somehow even though we can explain OCD pretty well to

Steve's teachers, it just works better to have a professional attend a

meeting and talk calmly about what classroom interventions are needed.

That way sceptical teachers have to face unquestionable evidence that there

is a valid problem and they are not dealing with laziness, lack of

motivation or normal orneriness. Sometimes we have had more mental health

professionals on conference calls at our 504 meetings than teachers and

that really gets the message across. Also you can prep the professionals

to address directly the problems created when teachers misinterpret our

kid's behaviors.

If you can work with Chris' teachers to address not doing homework as a

symptom of a problem rather than a problem in itself, you might be able to

make some headway with them. You might also want to meet separately with

Chris's teachers and work at establishing a cooperative relationship where

you will work jointly with them on helping Chris.

Sometimes I have had to explain to the teachers what an evening in our

house was like with untreated OCD running the show. This helped them

realize that focusing on homework/undone schoolwork was not the priority

and getting OCD treated was. Just as parents must adjust their

expectations when OCD is in sway, so must teachers. What we found that

helped was to assure the teachers that we were working hard on helping

Steve get the OCD under control and that when that happened the schoolwork

problems would improve.

Sometimes you just meet a teacher on burnout and then all your efforts may

not be effective. Then you might want to make it very clear to them that

you understand Chris' legal rights. This approach when done subtly can get

even the most non-responsive administrators/educators to pay attention. My

son's psychologist has told us horror stories of battles he has engaged in

to get school accommodations for some of the kids he treats.

I apologize in advance if what I have written offends those on the list who

are in the teaching profession. So far we have mostly come in contact with

very caring, committed teachers who want very much to help. Aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

TC wrote:

Kathy,

>

>How lucky you are. Steve's teacher understands OCD? Otherwise, how can she

>help? Chris's teachers do not understand and accuse not doing

homeworks.

>

>TC

>

>

>

>

>Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...> on 04/24/99 02:13:30 PM

>

>Please respond to onelist

>

> onelist

>cc: (bcc: Tse Chao/JerseyCity/iNautix)

>

>Subject: Re: (no subject)

>

>

>

>

>From: Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...>

>

>HI Theresa:

>

>Wow, Ellen did some excellent bossing back of her OCD to get to school

>after worrying about the Columbine school massacre. Even my non-OCD

>co-workers had a hard time settling down to work after watching the news on

>this tragedy; it is hard to imagine how difficult this must be for our

>OCDers, especially those with violent obsessions.

>

>Please keep us posted on how your 504 arrangements are going. My son just

>went to his 504 meeting for the first time on Thursday and he handled very

>well. It was hard for him but he is learning to participate in the

>decisions about his treatment and school/mental health interventions. We

>even had an offer from one of his 6th grade teachers to help us orient the

>7th grade teachers in the Fall, and share with them techniques and

>strategies she found to help Steve with his OCD in the classroom.

>

>Take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

>kathyh@...

>

>At 09:39 AM 4/24/99 -0400, you wrote:

>> Hi My name is Theresa and I have a fourteen year old daughter

>>who has OCD. I've been reading the e-mails and have been thinking I've

>>been there and I've done that. It's so gratifying to know that there are

>>other parents who are going through the same emotions and heartaches that

>>my family has experienced. I read the information on the 504 plan and

>>immediately investigated. For years,I've struggled with the school system

>>and no one has ever said you can do this. Thanks for the information.

>>Yesterday was a real crises day. Ellen wouldn't go to school. She had

>>decided for the past three days that she was sick and didn't feel well.She

>>had been displaying quite a lot of her OCD symptoms,but I thought it was

>>because of PACT testing. When I woke her up,she wanted me to take her to

>>the doctor,but I told her she didn't have anything wrong with her. She

>>finally admitted she was scared because of the Columbine school

>>shootings.I knew I couldn't give in to this because if I did ,she would

>>try every morning. After numerous telephone calls to the principal,the

>>school psychologist,the guidance counselor,and Ellen's psychologist,she

>>finally made it to school at 10. I realize this is probably a little

>>long,but it's nice to be able to vent to people who actually know and

>>understand what it's really like.We live in S.C. Thanks,

>> Theresa

>

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Guest guest

,

Thanks and take care!

mary

Knod wrote:

> From: Knod <kelly@...>

>

> Dear ,

>

> Please don't apologize, it is part of my OCD to analyze everything I say,

> everything that is said to me etc. This could go on forever if I don't put

> a stop to it. I was truthfully asking if you were being sarcastic because

> I am famous for every other one of my sentences being sarcastic. Something

> my family is use to and I just expect from others I suppose. You may not

> have a sarcastic bone in your body but I can honestly say that I don't have a

> bone that isn't sarcastic! =-) Please forgive my forwardness, I just like to

know

> where I stand so I don't have to stay up all night trying to analyze words.

>

> I would like to say something, this has been a terrible OCD month for my

daughter

> and myself. We both were switched from Zoloft to Luvox at the same time and

> there are days when we are both crying in a corner. I wouldn't trade this

experience

> for anything though. I am so thankful to KNOW what my daughter is feeling, or

have

> an idea. My husband makes comments like, " Why can't she just stop taking so

many

> showers " . I KNOW why she can't, it is a feeling, an inner voice that won't

stop

> nagging us. I also have more patience with my husband because I know how hard

> it must be to understand what goes through somebody's mind with OCD. We all

> have some OCD tendencies I believe anyway and that makes it so much more

difficult

> to understand. Say your neighbor is a " hoarder " . BUT when she realizes that

she

> has accumulated too much stuff even though it is painful and hard she can get

rid of

> the excess. A Hoarder with OCD CAN'T get rid of the excess. So people

identify

> with people with OCD but they can't really get the full picture of how much it

really

> takes over your life........

>

> Sorry if I came across gruff. New meds are the pits! My daughter is a

terror!!!

> As for Time outs and making her take responsibility for her actions, yes we do

that.

> We are consistent with her time outs and such but it is important to remember

that

> she isn't a " bad " kid, just a kid with OCD. She needs more help then my other

> children when it comes to everyday stuff. Sorry I have rambled.

>

> You can get a copy of the touching tree from the OC Foundation. I can get the

> information for you, just not tonight. Tomorrow. =-)

>

> Thanks you for being so kind and understanding.

>

> Knod

>

> wrote:

>

> > From: <maryth3@...>

> >

> > ,

> > I'm so sorry, I was not being sarcastic. I truly

> > meant that I was grateful for you giving me some

> > insight. I agree with you wholeheartedly!

> >

> > I would never want to have this terrible illness,

> > but for just one day I'd like to crawl into my

> > son's body to get an idea of what he is having

> > to cope with.

> >

> > I don't have a sarcastic bone in my body when

> > it comes to OCD. Sorry again.

> > mary

> >

> > Knod wrote:

> >

> > > From: Knod <kelly@...>

> > >

> > > Dear ,

> > >

> > > Unfortunately I miss most of the posts and for this I also miss the entire

conversation

> > > which kind of puts me in a spot of not hearing everything I should hear

before

> > > coming to a conclusion.

> > >

> > > I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic by putting " shedding some light "

in

> > > quotation marks. I don't mean to sound as if I know it all because I

certainly

> > > don't. Unfortunately I know what it is like to have OCD. I also know

what

> > > it is like to have a 2 year old waking me up at all hours of the night to

clean an

> > > already spotless house.

> > >

> > > So if I mistated I apologize. It just sounded to me that your " pushing "

an OCDER

> > > is similar to making an anorexic eat. You can't MAKE an anorexic eat and

you

> > > can't make an OCDER just stop their compulsions. This is something they

need

> > > to do with professional help and it needs to be an accomplishment all

their own.

> > >

> > > Good Luck.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > From: <maryth3@...>

> > > >

> > > > ,

> > > > Thanks for " shedding some light " on this

> > > > subject. You are right, most of us don't have

> > > > OCD, and have no understanding of what it's

> > > > like to have it. I am trying to be as patient and

> > > > understanding as I can be while at the same time

> > > > giving that extra push.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > > mary from LA

> > > >

> > > > Knod wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > From: Knod <kelly@...>

> > > > >

> > > > > I agree to some extent that our children need to be responsible for

their actions regardless of the OCD or not. HOWEVER, I am a Mother who has OCD

and until you have had the nagging

> > > > > thoughts and the scary obsessions and rituals it is impossible to

understand just how hard it is to " control " your OCD behavior.

> > > > >

> > > > > Through Behavior Therapy my daughter and myself have learned ways of

handling our OCD but to tell me that I need to be responsible for something I

truly have no control over makes no sense.

> > > > > With Behavior Therapy I have learned ways to Control my thoughts and

feelings but without it you can't expect a child to just take responsibility for

her OCD.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Noelle136@... wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > From: Noelle136@...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Theresa,

> > > > > > I commend you for teaching your daughter to be responsible

for her

> > > > > > behavior, OCD or not. I am working on this with my five year old.

I just

> > > > > > feel he needs to know that OCD or not, he is ultimately responsible

for his

> > > > > > actions and the effects they have. Perhaps if my husband had

learned this

> > > > > > lesson he would not have left us. He has chronic depression and

therefore

> > > > > > believes anything and everything he does is justified because he has

a

> > > > > > " disability " . He is destroying his family but it is not his fault

due to

> > > > > > depression. I will not allow my son to fall into this way of

thinking. I do

> > > > > > chose my battles, I am well educated about OCD, and I help him. But

> > > > > > ultimately, he must learn to be responsible for his actions. In a

way your

> > > > > > letter was encouragement to me. To see that another is expecting

this from

> > > > > > and OCD child. Thank you.

> > > > > > noelle

> > > > > > noelle136@...

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > > > Did you know that knowledge is power?

> > > > > > http://www.ONElist.com

> > > > > > Join a new ONElist e-mail community and strengthen your mind!

> > > > > >

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > > > The is sponsored by the OCSDA. You may

visit their web site at http://www.ocdhelp.org/ and view schedules for chatroom

support at http://www.ocdhelp.org/chat.html

> > > > >

> > > > >

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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> > > > > /ad/iVillage0. We've got experts and over a

> > > > > million members to help you with stuff from daycare to dieting.

> > > > >

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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support at http://www.ocdhelp.org/chat.html

> > > >

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> > >

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Guest guest

Theresa,

Our school has everything, a psychologist, a social worker and teachers. The

psychologist setup the 504 plan for Chris. I also asked her to educate the

teachers on OCD. I don't know how she did this. It does not seem to be

effective. That's why I decided to print the " What is OCD " article for all

teachers and other related staff. I think that OCD is still just a terminology

to most of them. If they, including the psychologist and the social worker,

truly understand the nature of the problem, how can they deny my request at the

begining of the plan for reducing Chris's homework load? 11th grade english

requires lots of reading and is especially obsessive on reading. When the

psychologist consulted with the english teacher about reducing the homeworks,

the teacher refused and claimed that " it would not be 11th grade english

anymore " . Therefore, we could not reduce the number of reading and project

assignments which has to do every night (because there are daily

assignments). I think I might need to go higher up to the board to request

this. With 504, sometimes gets two days more. But, so what? The amount

of homework is the same. He falls more and more behind. I'm quite frustrated

with the school.

The social worker in our school does some consoling for kids who have needs and

serves almost no function in the 504 plan.

TC

" Theresa " <pudding@...> on 04/27/99 12:03:38 PM

Please respond to onelist

onelist

cc: (bcc: Tse Chao/JerseyCity/iNautix)

Subject: (no subject)

TC

It sounds to me as if you have a communication problem with your son's teachers

and school.My daughter's teachers have been very helpful. Only a few of them

know. Does his school have a psychologist that can help set up some type of

program with his teachers(504)? The schools here do not have social workers. I'

ve been reading some of the e-mails about social workers. How do they help?

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Guest guest

Hi Kathy,

IT sounds like a good idea to have a professional to conference in the 504

meeting. I'm not sure how our psychiatrist will react to that. I'll try and

also have him to write a letter to request for more accomodations on the

classroom/curriculum settings.

I like your idea of " address not doing homework as a symptom of a problem rather

than a problem in itself " . I think the focus has been the opposite and wrong.

I should point this out to the teachers.

Thanks for the valuable information and suggestions.

TC

Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...> on 04/27/99 02:37:12 PM

Please respond to onelist

onelist

cc: (bcc: Tse Chao/JerseyCity/iNautix)

Subject: Re: (no subject)

From: Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...>

HI TC:

SInce Steve was diagnosed he has had about ten teachers and I would say

only one, his GT Math teacher, really has any understanding of OCD.

However my son's homeroom teacher has shown a great willingness to help

share with other teachers and this is the thin end of the wedge as far as

working successfully with the school. It is definintely a step on the way

to understanding.

Have you tried talking to the teachers with a professional? This has been

invaluable to us. Somehow even though we can explain OCD pretty well to

Steve's teachers, it just works better to have a professional attend a

meeting and talk calmly about what classroom interventions are needed.

That way sceptical teachers have to face unquestionable evidence that there

is a valid problem and they are not dealing with laziness, lack of

motivation or normal orneriness. Sometimes we have had more mental health

professionals on conference calls at our 504 meetings than teachers and

that really gets the message across. Also you can prep the professionals

to address directly the problems created when teachers misinterpret our

kid's behaviors.

If you can work with Chris' teachers to address not doing homework as a

symptom of a problem rather than a problem in itself, you might be able to

make some headway with them. You might also want to meet separately with

Chris's teachers and work at establishing a cooperative relationship where

you will work jointly with them on helping Chris.

Sometimes I have had to explain to the teachers what an evening in our

house was like with untreated OCD running the show. This helped them

realize that focusing on homework/undone schoolwork was not the priority

and getting OCD treated was. Just as parents must adjust their

expectations when OCD is in sway, so must teachers. What we found that

helped was to assure the teachers that we were working hard on helping

Steve get the OCD under control and that when that happened the schoolwork

problems would improve.

Sometimes you just meet a teacher on burnout and then all your efforts may

not be effective. Then you might want to make it very clear to them that

you understand Chris' legal rights. This approach when done subtly can get

even the most non-responsive administrators/educators to pay attention. My

son's psychologist has told us horror stories of battles he has engaged in

to get school accommodations for some of the kids he treats.

I apologize in advance if what I have written offends those on the list who

are in the teaching profession. So far we have mostly come in contact with

very caring, committed teachers who want very much to help. Aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

TC wrote:

Kathy,

>

>How lucky you are. Steve's teacher understands OCD? Otherwise, how can she

>help? Chris's teachers do not understand and accuse not doing

homeworks.

>

>TC

>

>

>

>

>Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...> on 04/24/99 02:13:30 PM

>

>Please respond to onelist

>

> onelist

>cc: (bcc: Tse Chao/JerseyCity/iNautix)

>

>Subject: Re: (no subject)

>

>

>

>

>From: Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...>

>

>HI Theresa:

>

>Wow, Ellen did some excellent bossing back of her OCD to get to school

>after worrying about the Columbine school massacre. Even my non-OCD

>co-workers had a hard time settling down to work after watching the news on

>this tragedy; it is hard to imagine how difficult this must be for our

>OCDers, especially those with violent obsessions.

>

>Please keep us posted on how your 504 arrangements are going. My son just

>went to his 504 meeting for the first time on Thursday and he handled very

>well. It was hard for him but he is learning to participate in the

>decisions about his treatment and school/mental health interventions. We

>even had an offer from one of his 6th grade teachers to help us orient the

>7th grade teachers in the Fall, and share with them techniques and

>strategies she found to help Steve with his OCD in the classroom.

>

>Take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

>kathyh@...

>

>At 09:39 AM 4/24/99 -0400, you wrote:

>> Hi My name is Theresa and I have a fourteen year old daughter

>>who has OCD. I've been reading the e-mails and have been thinking I've

>>been there and I've done that. It's so gratifying to know that there are

>>other parents who are going through the same emotions and heartaches that

>>my family has experienced. I read the information on the 504 plan and

>>immediately investigated. For years,I've struggled with the school system

>>and no one has ever said you can do this. Thanks for the information.

>>Yesterday was a real crises day. Ellen wouldn't go to school. She had

>>decided for the past three days that she was sick and didn't feel well.She

>>had been displaying quite a lot of her OCD symptoms,but I thought it was

>>because of PACT testing. When I woke her up,she wanted me to take her to

>>the doctor,but I told her she didn't have anything wrong with her. She

>>finally admitted she was scared because of the Columbine school

>>shootings.I knew I couldn't give in to this because if I did ,she would

>>try every morning. After numerous telephone calls to the principal,the

>>school psychologist,the guidance counselor,and Ellen's psychologist,she

>>finally made it to school at 10. I realize this is probably a little

>>long,but it's nice to be able to vent to people who actually know and

>>understand what it's really like.We live in S.C. Thanks,

>> Theresa

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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