Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

[Guest guest]

wrote:

Re: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

I'm not sure what this has to do with CR but

exercise or activity level is the important third factor in energy

balance. If you hold

energy intake constant, increased activity will

reduce BMI which for many people is probably more healthy. If you hold

BMI constant,

increased activity

requires increased food intake. Depending upon your food choices this

could improve your chances of getting adequate

nutrition or

conversely expose you to more toxins. This duality may explain the lack

of clear correlation between increased exercise/activity

and improved

health when not controlled for nutrition.

I have been running on and off for 30 years and

I don't claim any unique wisdom from that experience.

I feel pretty comfortable with my

observation that running at 150# is less

stressful to my joints etc than my former 200#+.

JR

Just think of it as a Supreme Court Nominee and CRONER. He

could well be chief Justice for the next 50 years!

But seriously, how many careers will a CRON person have?

Positive Dennis

[Guest guest]

wrote:

Re: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

I'm not sure what this has to do with CR but

exercise or activity level is the important third factor in energy

balance. If you hold

energy intake constant, increased activity will

reduce BMI which for many people is probably more healthy. If you hold

BMI constant,

increased activity

requires increased food intake. Depending upon your food choices this

could improve your chances of getting adequate

nutrition or

conversely expose you to more toxins. This duality may explain the lack

of clear correlation between increased exercise/activity

and improved

health when not controlled for nutrition.

I have been running on and off for 30 years and

I don't claim any unique wisdom from that experience.

I feel pretty comfortable with my

observation that running at 150# is less

stressful to my joints etc than my former 200#+.

JR

Just think of it as a Supreme Court Nominee and CRONER. He

could well be chief Justice for the next 50 years!

But seriously, how many careers will a CRON person have?

Positive Dennis

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure what this has to do with CR but exercise or activity level is the important third factor in energy balance. If you hold

energy intake constant, increased activity will reduce BMI which for many people is probably more healthy. If you hold BMI constant,

increased activity requires increased food intake. Depending upon your food choices this could improve your chances of getting adequate

nutrition or conversely expose you to more toxins. This duality may explain the lack of clear correlation between increased exercise/activity

and improved health when not controlled for nutrition.

I have been running on and off for 30 years and I don't claim any unique wisdom from that experience. I feel pretty comfortable with my

observation that running at 150# is less stressful to my joints etc than my former 200#+.

JR

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Francesca SkeltonSent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

I would say that those who "overdo" either or both, could harm their health. We've heard from anorexic and severly underweight individuals on this board and their health problems. Also our files indicate that a BMI under 18 can lead to shorter, not longer life. And excessive exercise will not only NOT lengthen life, it could shorten it (if you agree with the free radical theory). I myself have noticed that exercisers/athletes often seem to be not only victims of heart disease but cancer and other illnesses (besides Lance Armstrong, other athletes both famous and who I have personally known) . Remember Lou Gehrig and the disease named after him? All anecdotal to be sure, but as Rod says how many anecdotes do you need before you start wondering.......My husband used to run a marathon a month in his youth. That went on many 6 or 8 years or so. Now he can't walk more than a mile without getting leg pain. I can't prove they're related, but it sure makes me wonder.Personally I try to do some yaga everyday (as recommended by Ornish), walk an extra mile a day, and do a bit of strength training. Moderation seems to be the best avenue. on 9/6/2005 8:49 PM, drsusanforshey at drsusanforshey@... wrote:

Those who wish to place their bet solely on their CRON, I say to youyou'd better be right with your nutritional and caloric choices!Personally, I'm will hedge my bet and do BOTH. Appropriate exercisewill likely not kill me, but it just might provide additional survivaledge to help overcome any dietary miscues.

[Guest guest]

You've insinuated before that Lance Armstrong's prostate cancer, for

one example, was somehow related to his competitive cycling. Since you

constantly stress science over anecdote and personal unsubstantiated

opinion on this list, please provide your scientific evidence and

references for your assertion that athletes in general incur higher

incidence of cancer due to their " excessive " exercising. Do athletes

get more prostate cancer? Lung cancer? Breast cancer? Where is your

evidence or proof? Or is this simply rank speculation on your part as

I believe it is?

>

> Those who wish to place their bet solely on their CRON, I say to you

> you'd better be right with your nutritional and caloric choices!

> Personally, I'm will hedge my bet and do BOTH. Appropriate exercise

> will likely not kill me, but it just might provide additional survival

> edge to help overcome any dietary miscues.

>

>

[Guest guest]

You've insinuated before that Lance Armstrong's prostate cancer, for

one example, was somehow related to his competitive cycling. Since you

constantly stress science over anecdote and personal unsubstantiated

opinion on this list, please provide your scientific evidence and

references for your assertion that athletes in general incur higher

incidence of cancer due to their " excessive " exercising. Do athletes

get more prostate cancer? Lung cancer? Breast cancer? Where is your

evidence or proof? Or is this simply rank speculation on your part as

I believe it is?

>

> Those who wish to place their bet solely on their CRON, I say to you

> you'd better be right with your nutritional and caloric choices!

> Personally, I'm will hedge my bet and do BOTH. Appropriate exercise

> will likely not kill me, but it just might provide additional survival

> edge to help overcome any dietary miscues.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I never insinuated any such thing (that exercise CAUSES disease). What I do suggest is that exercise is not protective against cancer.

In my post I say this: " All anecdotal to be sure, but as Rod says how many anecdotes do you need before you start wondering....... " .

on 9/6/2005 11:01 PM, drsusanforshey at drsusanforshey@... wrote:

You've insinuated before that Lance Armstrong's prostate cancer, for

one example, was somehow related to his competitive cycling. Since you

constantly stress science over anecdote and personal unsubstantiated

opinion on this list, please provide your scientific evidence and

references for your assertion that athletes in general incur higher

incidence of cancer due to their " excessive " exercising. Do athletes

get more prostate cancer? Lung cancer? Breast cancer? Where is your

evidence or proof? Or is this simply rank speculation on your part as

I believe it is?

[Guest guest]

I never insinuated any such thing (that exercise CAUSES disease). What I do suggest is that exercise is not protective against cancer.

In my post I say this: " All anecdotal to be sure, but as Rod says how many anecdotes do you need before you start wondering....... " .

on 9/6/2005 11:01 PM, drsusanforshey at drsusanforshey@... wrote:

You've insinuated before that Lance Armstrong's prostate cancer, for

one example, was somehow related to his competitive cycling. Since you

constantly stress science over anecdote and personal unsubstantiated

opinion on this list, please provide your scientific evidence and

references for your assertion that athletes in general incur higher

incidence of cancer due to their " excessive " exercising. Do athletes

get more prostate cancer? Lung cancer? Breast cancer? Where is your

evidence or proof? Or is this simply rank speculation on your part as

I believe it is?

[Guest guest]

I assume he was asking hypothetically... you need many many anecdotes.... Of course that is how some trends are

first perceived. I suspect we have lots of experience with exercise wrt to general health. Lance and well known athletes

get lots of ink because of the apparent paradox of a "healthy" athlete getting sick. Lance surely educated himself and

consulted with cancer experts. While I don't know how he was advised, he returned to a very high level of activity so he

apparently didn't perceive a risk.

If we don't die young (too late for me) the odds increase that we will be at risk for cancer. Cancer is not one simple

disease but multiple variations on a nasty theme. I suspect (moderate) exercise may be protective against some,

perhaps supportive to others. I just read a report that they believe downs syndrome may be protective against "some"

cancers. Cancer is a rather complex thing. I would suggest making exercise choices without much consideration for

increased or decreased risk of the big C.

JR

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Francesca SkeltonSent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart DiseaseI never insinuated any such thing (that exercise CAUSES disease). What I do suggest is that exercise is not protective against cancer.In my post I say this: "All anecdotal to be sure, but as Rod says how many anecdotes do you need before you start wondering.......".on 9/6/2005 11:01 PM, drsusanforshey at drsusanforshey@... wrote:

You've insinuated before that Lance Armstrong's prostate cancer, forone example, was somehow related to his competitive cycling. Since youconstantly stress science over anecdote and personal unsubstantiatedopinion on this list, please provide your scientific evidence andreferences for your assertion that athletes in general incur higherincidence of cancer due to their "excessive" exercising. Do athletesget more prostate cancer? Lung cancer? Breast cancer? Where is yourevidence or proof? Or is this simply rank speculation on your part asI believe it is?

[Guest guest]

I assume he was asking hypothetically... you need many many anecdotes.... Of course that is how some trends are

first perceived. I suspect we have lots of experience with exercise wrt to general health. Lance and well known athletes

get lots of ink because of the apparent paradox of a "healthy" athlete getting sick. Lance surely educated himself and

consulted with cancer experts. While I don't know how he was advised, he returned to a very high level of activity so he

apparently didn't perceive a risk.

If we don't die young (too late for me) the odds increase that we will be at risk for cancer. Cancer is not one simple

disease but multiple variations on a nasty theme. I suspect (moderate) exercise may be protective against some,

perhaps supportive to others. I just read a report that they believe downs syndrome may be protective against "some"

cancers. Cancer is a rather complex thing. I would suggest making exercise choices without much consideration for

increased or decreased risk of the big C.

JR

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Francesca SkeltonSent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart DiseaseI never insinuated any such thing (that exercise CAUSES disease). What I do suggest is that exercise is not protective against cancer.In my post I say this: "All anecdotal to be sure, but as Rod says how many anecdotes do you need before you start wondering.......".on 9/6/2005 11:01 PM, drsusanforshey at drsusanforshey@... wrote:

You've insinuated before that Lance Armstrong's prostate cancer, forone example, was somehow related to his competitive cycling. Since youconstantly stress science over anecdote and personal unsubstantiatedopinion on this list, please provide your scientific evidence andreferences for your assertion that athletes in general incur higherincidence of cancer due to their "excessive" exercising. Do athletesget more prostate cancer? Lung cancer? Breast cancer? Where is yourevidence or proof? Or is this simply rank speculation on your part asI believe it is?

[Guest guest]

[ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease "Exercise" will: enlarge your heart lumens, improve endothelialfunction, increase microcirculation, improve lipid profile, reducelarge artery stiffness, reduce pulse pressure, increase skeletal massand strength, increase thickness of joint surface articular cartilage,increase muscle & tendon thickness and strength, improve coordinationand balance, reduce disability..."Exercise" is NOT a panacea for any and all your lifestyleindiscretions. Exercise will probably not completely overcome themounting physical damage from a lifestyle that creates a 310+ lb humanbeing. Those who wish to place their bet solely on their CRON, I say to youyou'd better be right with your nutritional and caloric choices!Personally, I'm will hedge my bet and do BOTH. Appropriate exercisewill likely not kill me, but it just might provide additional survivaledge to help overcome any dietary miscues.--Besides, it makes me and you pretty.

;-)

Maco

[Guest guest]

[ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease "Exercise" will: enlarge your heart lumens, improve endothelialfunction, increase microcirculation, improve lipid profile, reducelarge artery stiffness, reduce pulse pressure, increase skeletal massand strength, increase thickness of joint surface articular cartilage,increase muscle & tendon thickness and strength, improve coordinationand balance, reduce disability..."Exercise" is NOT a panacea for any and all your lifestyleindiscretions. Exercise will probably not completely overcome themounting physical damage from a lifestyle that creates a 310+ lb humanbeing. Those who wish to place their bet solely on their CRON, I say to youyou'd better be right with your nutritional and caloric choices!Personally, I'm will hedge my bet and do BOTH. Appropriate exercisewill likely not kill me, but it just might provide additional survivaledge to help overcome any dietary miscues.--Besides, it makes me and you pretty.

;-)

Maco

[Guest guest]

--Good luck, btw, with the supreme court business!

Maco RE: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

I'm not sure what this has to do with CR but exercise or activity level is the important third factor in energy balance. If you hold

energy intake constant, increased activity will reduce BMI which for many people is probably more healthy. If you hold BMI constant,

increased activity requires increased food intake. Depending upon your food choices this could improve your chances of getting adequate

nutrition or conversely expose you to more toxins. This duality may explain the lack of clear correlation between increased exercise/activity

and improved health when not controlled for nutrition.

I have been running on and off for 30 years and I don't claim any unique wisdom from that experience. I feel pretty comfortable with my

observation that running at 150# is less stressful to my joints etc than my former 200#+.

JR

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Francesca SkeltonSent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

I would say that those who "overdo" either or both, could harm their health. We've heard from anorexic and severly underweight individuals on this board and their health problems. Also our files indicate that a BMI under 18 can lead to shorter, not longer life. And excessive exercise will not only NOT lengthen life, it could shorten it (if you agree with the free radical theory). I myself have noticed that exercisers/athletes often seem to be not only victims of heart disease but cancer and other illnesses (besides Lance Armstrong, other athletes both famous and who I have personally known) . Remember Lou Gehrig and the disease named after him? All anecdotal to be sure, but as Rod says how many anecdotes do you need before you start wondering.......My husband used to run a marathon a month in his youth. That went on many 6 or 8 years or so. Now he can't walk more than a mile without getting leg pain. I can't prove they're related, but it sure makes me wonder.Personally I try to do some yaga everyday (as recommended by Ornish), walk an extra mile a day, and do a bit of strength training. Moderation seems to be the best avenue. on 9/6/2005 8:49 PM, drsusanforshey at drsusanforshey@... wrote:

Those who wish to place their bet solely on their CRON, I say to youyou'd better be right with your nutritional and caloric choices!Personally, I'm will hedge my bet and do BOTH. Appropriate exercisewill likely not kill me, but it just might provide additional survivaledge to help overcome any dietary miscues.

[Guest guest]

--Good luck, btw, with the supreme court business!

Maco RE: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

I'm not sure what this has to do with CR but exercise or activity level is the important third factor in energy balance. If you hold

energy intake constant, increased activity will reduce BMI which for many people is probably more healthy. If you hold BMI constant,

increased activity requires increased food intake. Depending upon your food choices this could improve your chances of getting adequate

nutrition or conversely expose you to more toxins. This duality may explain the lack of clear correlation between increased exercise/activity

and improved health when not controlled for nutrition.

I have been running on and off for 30 years and I don't claim any unique wisdom from that experience. I feel pretty comfortable with my

observation that running at 150# is less stressful to my joints etc than my former 200#+.

JR

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Francesca SkeltonSent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

I would say that those who "overdo" either or both, could harm their health. We've heard from anorexic and severly underweight individuals on this board and their health problems. Also our files indicate that a BMI under 18 can lead to shorter, not longer life. And excessive exercise will not only NOT lengthen life, it could shorten it (if you agree with the free radical theory). I myself have noticed that exercisers/athletes often seem to be not only victims of heart disease but cancer and other illnesses (besides Lance Armstrong, other athletes both famous and who I have personally known) . Remember Lou Gehrig and the disease named after him? All anecdotal to be sure, but as Rod says how many anecdotes do you need before you start wondering.......My husband used to run a marathon a month in his youth. That went on many 6 or 8 years or so. Now he can't walk more than a mile without getting leg pain. I can't prove they're related, but it sure makes me wonder.Personally I try to do some yaga everyday (as recommended by Ornish), walk an extra mile a day, and do a bit of strength training. Moderation seems to be the best avenue. on 9/6/2005 8:49 PM, drsusanforshey at drsusanforshey@... wrote:

Those who wish to place their bet solely on their CRON, I say to youyou'd better be right with your nutritional and caloric choices!Personally, I'm will hedge my bet and do BOTH. Appropriate exercisewill likely not kill me, but it just might provide additional survivaledge to help overcome any dietary miscues.

[Guest guest]

I ignored the first, but to prevent more wasted bandwidth, I am obviously not that . He is G , and I am H .

JR

RE: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

I'm not sure what this has to do with CR but exercise or activity level is the important third factor in energy balance. If you hold

energy intake constant, increased activity will reduce BMI which for many people is probably more healthy. If you hold BMI constant,

increased activity requires increased food intake. Depending upon your food choices this could improve your chances of getting adequate

nutrition or conversely expose you to more toxins. This duality may explain the lack of clear correlation between increased exercise/activity

and improved health when not controlled for nutrition.

I have been running on and off for 30 years and I don't claim any unique wisdom from that experience. I feel pretty comfortable with my

observation that running at 150# is less stressful to my joints etc than my former 200#+.

JR

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Francesca SkeltonSent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

I would say that those who "overdo" either or both, could harm their health. We've heard from anorexic and severly underweight individuals on this board and their health problems. Also our files indicate that a BMI under 18 can lead to shorter, not longer life. And excessive exercise will not only NOT lengthen life, it could shorten it (if you agree with the free radical theory). I myself have noticed that exercisers/athletes often seem to be not only victims of heart disease but cancer and other illnesses (besides Lance Armstrong, other athletes both famous and who I have personally known) . Remember Lou Gehrig and the disease named after him? All anecdotal to be sure, but as Rod says how many anecdotes do you need before you start wondering.......My husband used to run a marathon a month in his youth. That went on many 6 or 8 years or so. Now he can't walk more than a mile without getting leg pain. I can't prove they're related, but it sure makes me wonder.Personally I try to do some yaga everyday (as recommended by Ornish), walk an extra mile a day, and do a bit of strength training. Moderation seems to be the best avenue. on 9/6/2005 8:49 PM, drsusanforshey at drsusanforshey@... wrote:

Those who wish to place their bet solely on their CRON, I say to youyou'd better be right with your nutritional and caloric choices!Personally, I'm will hedge my bet and do BOTH. Appropriate exercisewill likely not kill me, but it just might provide additional survivaledge to help overcome any dietary miscues.

[Guest guest]

I ignored the first, but to prevent more wasted bandwidth, I am obviously not that . He is G , and I am H .

JR

RE: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

I'm not sure what this has to do with CR but exercise or activity level is the important third factor in energy balance. If you hold

energy intake constant, increased activity will reduce BMI which for many people is probably more healthy. If you hold BMI constant,

increased activity requires increased food intake. Depending upon your food choices this could improve your chances of getting adequate

nutrition or conversely expose you to more toxins. This duality may explain the lack of clear correlation between increased exercise/activity

and improved health when not controlled for nutrition.

I have been running on and off for 30 years and I don't claim any unique wisdom from that experience. I feel pretty comfortable with my

observation that running at 150# is less stressful to my joints etc than my former 200#+.

JR

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Francesca SkeltonSent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

I would say that those who "overdo" either or both, could harm their health. We've heard from anorexic and severly underweight individuals on this board and their health problems. Also our files indicate that a BMI under 18 can lead to shorter, not longer life. And excessive exercise will not only NOT lengthen life, it could shorten it (if you agree with the free radical theory). I myself have noticed that exercisers/athletes often seem to be not only victims of heart disease but cancer and other illnesses (besides Lance Armstrong, other athletes both famous and who I have personally known) . Remember Lou Gehrig and the disease named after him? All anecdotal to be sure, but as Rod says how many anecdotes do you need before you start wondering.......My husband used to run a marathon a month in his youth. That went on many 6 or 8 years or so. Now he can't walk more than a mile without getting leg pain. I can't prove they're related, but it sure makes me wonder.Personally I try to do some yaga everyday (as recommended by Ornish), walk an extra mile a day, and do a bit of strength training. Moderation seems to be the best avenue. on 9/6/2005 8:49 PM, drsusanforshey at drsusanforshey@... wrote:

Those who wish to place their bet solely on their CRON, I say to youyou'd better be right with your nutritional and caloric choices!Personally, I'm will hedge my bet and do BOTH. Appropriate exercisewill likely not kill me, but it just might provide additional survivaledge to help overcome any dietary miscues.

[Guest guest]

Not disagree, I notice my friends who were active are not here, and I'm left with a lotta fat slobs all younger than me. My only sib remaining is 81yo, exmarine, gymed and exercised for many years, now has venous stasis and CHF.

My wife's laws and in-laws all are living but one who overdosed on back pain medication. The men were all in the WWII, and are all 10+ yrs older than us. The oldest is still obese at 88 and can lift Jack Lalanne easily. If they were smokers, they quit, but in the main they are withering if they're not gaining.

I think if people are exercising it's because they can.

To sum up all the articles "healthy people live longer". Not to be smart alecky, but that's what they tell me. At some point you can't do things like you used to and it's not because of what you ate or didn't eat. I walk 2 or 3 miles because I take enough NSAIDS to do so.

Not a day passes I don't think of my good friend who died at 59yo of brain cancer and I wonder why he's dead and not all these fat slobs around me.

Or another friend who ran 5 miles per day everyday before work (20 yrs at least) and died at 65yo - SCD. They were active and thought they were the epitome on health like a lot of other "athletes".

A coworker was a high school football referee in the evenings, died younger than that of heart disease.

Go to the doc and get a stress test, colonoscopy, mammogram, and whatever blood tests available and keep the records. Regardless what you do to live longer, it's in your hands not theirs.

Regards.

Re: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

I would say that those who "overdo" either or both, could harm their health. We've heard from anorexic and severly underweight individuals on this board and their health problems. Also our files indicate that a BMI under 18 can lead to shorter, not longer life. And excessive exercise will not only NOT lengthen life, it could shorten it (if you agree with the free radical theory). I myself have noticed that exercisers/athletes often seem to be not only victims of heart disease but cancer and other illnesses (besides Lance Armstrong, other athletes both famous and who I have personally known) . Remember Lou Gehrig and the disease named after him? All anecdotal to be sure, but as Rod says how many anecdotes do you need before you start wondering.......My husband used to run a marathon a month in his youth. That went on many 6 or 8 years or so. Now he can't walk more than a mile without getting leg pain. I can't prove they're related, but it sure makes me wonder.Personally I try to do some yaga everyday (as recommended by Ornish), walk an extra mile a day, and do a bit of strength training. Moderation seems to be the best avenue.

[Guest guest]

Not disagree, I notice my friends who were active are not here, and I'm left with a lotta fat slobs all younger than me. My only sib remaining is 81yo, exmarine, gymed and exercised for many years, now has venous stasis and CHF.

My wife's laws and in-laws all are living but one who overdosed on back pain medication. The men were all in the WWII, and are all 10+ yrs older than us. The oldest is still obese at 88 and can lift Jack Lalanne easily. If they were smokers, they quit, but in the main they are withering if they're not gaining.

I think if people are exercising it's because they can.

To sum up all the articles "healthy people live longer". Not to be smart alecky, but that's what they tell me. At some point you can't do things like you used to and it's not because of what you ate or didn't eat. I walk 2 or 3 miles because I take enough NSAIDS to do so.

Not a day passes I don't think of my good friend who died at 59yo of brain cancer and I wonder why he's dead and not all these fat slobs around me.

Or another friend who ran 5 miles per day everyday before work (20 yrs at least) and died at 65yo - SCD. They were active and thought they were the epitome on health like a lot of other "athletes".

A coworker was a high school football referee in the evenings, died younger than that of heart disease.

Go to the doc and get a stress test, colonoscopy, mammogram, and whatever blood tests available and keep the records. Regardless what you do to live longer, it's in your hands not theirs.

Regards.

Re: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

I would say that those who "overdo" either or both, could harm their health. We've heard from anorexic and severly underweight individuals on this board and their health problems. Also our files indicate that a BMI under 18 can lead to shorter, not longer life. And excessive exercise will not only NOT lengthen life, it could shorten it (if you agree with the free radical theory). I myself have noticed that exercisers/athletes often seem to be not only victims of heart disease but cancer and other illnesses (besides Lance Armstrong, other athletes both famous and who I have personally known) . Remember Lou Gehrig and the disease named after him? All anecdotal to be sure, but as Rod says how many anecdotes do you need before you start wondering.......My husband used to run a marathon a month in his youth. That went on many 6 or 8 years or so. Now he can't walk more than a mile without getting leg pain. I can't prove they're related, but it sure makes me wonder.Personally I try to do some yaga everyday (as recommended by Ornish), walk an extra mile a day, and do a bit of strength training. Moderation seems to be the best avenue.

[Guest guest]

Keep in mind, too, that these are all anecdotal and " one mouse "

experiments. My co-worker's mother lived to 100 and she smoked her

whole life. He continues to point to this as evidence that smoking

isn't bad for your health.

Nothing -- including CR -- is 100% insurance that you will live a long

time. It's best to hedge your bets and do everything you can to stay

healthy.

Diane

> Re: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart DiseaseNot disagree, I

notice my friends who were active are not here, and I'm left with a

lotta fat slobs all younger than me. My only sib remaining is 81yo,

exmarine, gymed and exercised for many years, now has venous stasis

and CHF.

> My wife's laws and in-laws all are living but one who overdosed on

back pain medication. The men were all in the WWII, and are all 10+

yrs older than us. The oldest is still obese at 88 and can lift Jack

Lalanne easily. If they were smokers, they quit, but in the main they

are withering if they're not gaining.

>

> I think if people are exercising it's because they can.

> To sum up all the articles " healthy people live longer " . Not to be

smart alecky, but that's what they tell me. At some point you can't do

things like you used to and it's not because of what you ate or didn't

eat. I walk 2 or 3 miles because I take enough NSAIDS to do so.

>

> Not a day passes I don't think of my good friend who died at 59yo of

brain cancer and I wonder why he's dead and not all these fat slobs

around me.

> Or another friend who ran 5 miles per day everyday before work (20

yrs at least) and died at 65yo - SCD. They were active and thought

they were the epitome on health like a lot of other " athletes " .

> A coworker was a high school football referee in the evenings, died

younger than that of heart disease.

>

> Go to the doc and get a stress test, colonoscopy, mammogram, and

whatever blood tests available and keep the records. Regardless what

you do to live longer, it's in your hands not theirs.

>

> Regards.

>

> Re: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

>

>

> I would say that those who " overdo " either or both, could harm

their health. We've heard from anorexic and severly underweight

individuals on this board and their health problems. Also our files

indicate that a BMI under 18 can lead to shorter, not longer life.

And excessive exercise will not only NOT lengthen life, it could

shorten it (if you agree with the free radical theory). I myself have

noticed that exercisers/athletes often seem to be not only victims of

heart disease but cancer and other illnesses (besides Lance Armstrong,

other athletes both famous and who I have personally known) .

Remember Lou Gehrig and the disease named after him? All anecdotal

to be sure, but as Rod says how many anecdotes do you need before you

start wondering.......

>

> My husband used to run a marathon a month in his youth. That went

on many 6 or 8 years or so. Now he can't walk more than a mile

without getting leg pain. I can't prove they're related, but it sure

makes me wonder.

>

> Personally I try to do some yaga everyday (as recommended by

Ornish), walk an extra mile a day, and do a bit of strength training.

>

> Moderation seems to be the best avenue.

[Guest guest]

Keep in mind, too, that these are all anecdotal and " one mouse "

experiments. My co-worker's mother lived to 100 and she smoked her

whole life. He continues to point to this as evidence that smoking

isn't bad for your health.

Nothing -- including CR -- is 100% insurance that you will live a long

time. It's best to hedge your bets and do everything you can to stay

healthy.

Diane

> Re: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart DiseaseNot disagree, I

notice my friends who were active are not here, and I'm left with a

lotta fat slobs all younger than me. My only sib remaining is 81yo,

exmarine, gymed and exercised for many years, now has venous stasis

and CHF.

> My wife's laws and in-laws all are living but one who overdosed on

back pain medication. The men were all in the WWII, and are all 10+

yrs older than us. The oldest is still obese at 88 and can lift Jack

Lalanne easily. If they were smokers, they quit, but in the main they

are withering if they're not gaining.

>

> I think if people are exercising it's because they can.

> To sum up all the articles " healthy people live longer " . Not to be

smart alecky, but that's what they tell me. At some point you can't do

things like you used to and it's not because of what you ate or didn't

eat. I walk 2 or 3 miles because I take enough NSAIDS to do so.

>

> Not a day passes I don't think of my good friend who died at 59yo of

brain cancer and I wonder why he's dead and not all these fat slobs

around me.

> Or another friend who ran 5 miles per day everyday before work (20

yrs at least) and died at 65yo - SCD. They were active and thought

they were the epitome on health like a lot of other " athletes " .

> A coworker was a high school football referee in the evenings, died

younger than that of heart disease.

>

> Go to the doc and get a stress test, colonoscopy, mammogram, and

whatever blood tests available and keep the records. Regardless what

you do to live longer, it's in your hands not theirs.

>

> Regards.

>

> Re: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

>

>

> I would say that those who " overdo " either or both, could harm

their health. We've heard from anorexic and severly underweight

individuals on this board and their health problems. Also our files

indicate that a BMI under 18 can lead to shorter, not longer life.

And excessive exercise will not only NOT lengthen life, it could

shorten it (if you agree with the free radical theory). I myself have

noticed that exercisers/athletes often seem to be not only victims of

heart disease but cancer and other illnesses (besides Lance Armstrong,

other athletes both famous and who I have personally known) .

Remember Lou Gehrig and the disease named after him? All anecdotal

to be sure, but as Rod says how many anecdotes do you need before you

start wondering.......

>

> My husband used to run a marathon a month in his youth. That went

on many 6 or 8 years or so. Now he can't walk more than a mile

without getting leg pain. I can't prove they're related, but it sure

makes me wonder.

>

> Personally I try to do some yaga everyday (as recommended by

Ornish), walk an extra mile a day, and do a bit of strength training.

>

> Moderation seems to be the best avenue.

[Guest guest]

We should keep in mind that " exercise " as commonly used is a very

generic term that means almost anything to anyone. Most that I see in

the local health club have as much clue about the way to properly

exercise as they have about proper nutrition. The vast majority do the

wrong " exercises " , or spend all their allotted time doing exercises

that have limited benefit. Or do the right exercises with insufficient

intensity and duration to overcome the body's natural tendency to

resist adaptation to the physical stresses.

Research has shown that up to a threshold, and that threshold is

moderately high, higher intensities over longer periods impart the

greatest benefit. Also demonstrated is that exercise levels too short

or too " light " , or the " wrong " exercise do not provide anything in the

way of desired goals, ie significant adaptation.

So while these stories of hapless individuals that " exercised " but

still became sick are interesting they are also impossible to evaluate

and judge. Who knows what they did, how they exercised or for how long

etc. They carry no weight with me for these reasons. After all, we all

know a few CRON'ers that didn't make it too, don't we, despite

healthly lifestyle choices.

I've said this before, the ambiguous meaning of " exercise " and the

fact of threshold effects, we need to establish an " OE " (Optimum

Exercise) standard of terminology and application.

> Re: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart DiseaseNot disagree, I

notice my friends who were active are not here, and I'm left with a

lotta fat slobs all younger than me. My only sib remaining is 81yo,

exmarine, gymed and exercised for many years, now has venous stasis

and CHF.

> My wife's laws and in-laws all are living but one who overdosed on

back pain medication. The men were all in the WWII, and are all 10+

yrs older than us. The oldest is still obese at 88 and can lift Jack

Lalanne easily. If they were smokers, they quit, but in the main they

are withering if they're not gaining.

>

> I think if people are exercising it's because they can.

> To sum up all the articles " healthy people live longer " . Not to be

smart alecky, but that's what they tell me. At some point you can't do

things like you used to and it's not because of what you ate or didn't

eat. I walk 2 or 3 miles because I take enough NSAIDS to do so.

>

> Not a day passes I don't think of my good friend who died at 59yo of

brain cancer and I wonder why he's dead and not all these fat slobs

around me.

> Or another friend who ran 5 miles per day everyday before work (20

yrs at least) and died at 65yo - SCD. They were active and thought

they were the epitome on health like a lot of other " athletes " .

> A coworker was a high school football referee in the evenings, died

younger than that of heart disease.

>

> Go to the doc and get a stress test, colonoscopy, mammogram, and

whatever blood tests available and keep the records. Regardless what

you do to live longer, it's in your hands not theirs.

>

> Regards.

>

> Re: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

>

>

> I would say that those who " overdo " either or both, could harm

their health. We've heard from anorexic and severly underweight

individuals on this board and their health problems. Also our files

indicate that a BMI under 18 can lead to shorter, not longer life.

And excessive exercise will not only NOT lengthen life, it could

shorten it (if you agree with the free radical theory). I myself have

noticed that exercisers/athletes often seem to be not only victims of

heart disease but cancer and other illnesses (besides Lance Armstrong,

other athletes both famous and who I have personally known) .

Remember Lou Gehrig and the disease named after him? All anecdotal

to be sure, but as Rod says how many anecdotes do you need before you

start wondering.......

>

> My husband used to run a marathon a month in his youth. That went

on many 6 or 8 years or so. Now he can't walk more than a mile

without getting leg pain. I can't prove they're related, but it sure

makes me wonder.

>

> Personally I try to do some yaga everyday (as recommended by

Ornish), walk an extra mile a day, and do a bit of strength training.

>

> Moderation seems to be the best avenue.

[Guest guest]

We should keep in mind that " exercise " as commonly used is a very

generic term that means almost anything to anyone. Most that I see in

the local health club have as much clue about the way to properly

exercise as they have about proper nutrition. The vast majority do the

wrong " exercises " , or spend all their allotted time doing exercises

that have limited benefit. Or do the right exercises with insufficient

intensity and duration to overcome the body's natural tendency to

resist adaptation to the physical stresses.

Research has shown that up to a threshold, and that threshold is

moderately high, higher intensities over longer periods impart the

greatest benefit. Also demonstrated is that exercise levels too short

or too " light " , or the " wrong " exercise do not provide anything in the

way of desired goals, ie significant adaptation.

So while these stories of hapless individuals that " exercised " but

still became sick are interesting they are also impossible to evaluate

and judge. Who knows what they did, how they exercised or for how long

etc. They carry no weight with me for these reasons. After all, we all

know a few CRON'ers that didn't make it too, don't we, despite

healthly lifestyle choices.

I've said this before, the ambiguous meaning of " exercise " and the

fact of threshold effects, we need to establish an " OE " (Optimum

Exercise) standard of terminology and application.

> Re: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart DiseaseNot disagree, I

notice my friends who were active are not here, and I'm left with a

lotta fat slobs all younger than me. My only sib remaining is 81yo,

exmarine, gymed and exercised for many years, now has venous stasis

and CHF.

> My wife's laws and in-laws all are living but one who overdosed on

back pain medication. The men were all in the WWII, and are all 10+

yrs older than us. The oldest is still obese at 88 and can lift Jack

Lalanne easily. If they were smokers, they quit, but in the main they

are withering if they're not gaining.

>

> I think if people are exercising it's because they can.

> To sum up all the articles " healthy people live longer " . Not to be

smart alecky, but that's what they tell me. At some point you can't do

things like you used to and it's not because of what you ate or didn't

eat. I walk 2 or 3 miles because I take enough NSAIDS to do so.

>

> Not a day passes I don't think of my good friend who died at 59yo of

brain cancer and I wonder why he's dead and not all these fat slobs

around me.

> Or another friend who ran 5 miles per day everyday before work (20

yrs at least) and died at 65yo - SCD. They were active and thought

they were the epitome on health like a lot of other " athletes " .

> A coworker was a high school football referee in the evenings, died

younger than that of heart disease.

>

> Go to the doc and get a stress test, colonoscopy, mammogram, and

whatever blood tests available and keep the records. Regardless what

you do to live longer, it's in your hands not theirs.

>

> Regards.

>

> Re: [ ] Re: Exercise and Heart Disease

>

>

> I would say that those who " overdo " either or both, could harm

their health. We've heard from anorexic and severly underweight

individuals on this board and their health problems. Also our files

indicate that a BMI under 18 can lead to shorter, not longer life.

And excessive exercise will not only NOT lengthen life, it could

shorten it (if you agree with the free radical theory). I myself have

noticed that exercisers/athletes often seem to be not only victims of

heart disease but cancer and other illnesses (besides Lance Armstrong,

other athletes both famous and who I have personally known) .

Remember Lou Gehrig and the disease named after him? All anecdotal

to be sure, but as Rod says how many anecdotes do you need before you

start wondering.......

>

> My husband used to run a marathon a month in his youth. That went

on many 6 or 8 years or so. Now he can't walk more than a mile

without getting leg pain. I can't prove they're related, but it sure

makes me wonder.

>

> Personally I try to do some yaga everyday (as recommended by

Ornish), walk an extra mile a day, and do a bit of strength training.

>

> Moderation seems to be the best avenue.

[Guest guest]

Hi :

A couple of questions:

> ....... Research has shown that up to a threshold, and that

> threshold is moderately high, higher intensities over longer

> periods impart the greatest benefit.

XXXXX In the research to which you refer what were the measures that

were regarded as representing " benefit " ? XXXXX

> Also demonstrated is that exercise levels too short or too " light " ,

> or the " wrong " exercise do not provide anything in the way of

> desired goals, ie significant adaptation.

XXXXX So are you saying that in your opinion moderate exercise that

is below the " moderately high " intensity you mention, imparts no

benefit at all? XXXXX

> I've said this before, the ambiguous meaning of " exercise " and the

> fact of threshold effects, we need to establish an " OE " (Optimum

> Exercise) standard of terminology and application.

XXXXX So what in your opinion represents " optimum exercise " and what

are the most important measures by which one can judge whether one is

getting it? Thanks. XXXXX

>

[Guest guest]

Hi :

A couple of questions:

> ....... Research has shown that up to a threshold, and that

> threshold is moderately high, higher intensities over longer

> periods impart the greatest benefit.

XXXXX In the research to which you refer what were the measures that

were regarded as representing " benefit " ? XXXXX

> Also demonstrated is that exercise levels too short or too " light " ,

> or the " wrong " exercise do not provide anything in the way of

> desired goals, ie significant adaptation.

XXXXX So are you saying that in your opinion moderate exercise that

is below the " moderately high " intensity you mention, imparts no

benefit at all? XXXXX

> I've said this before, the ambiguous meaning of " exercise " and the

> fact of threshold effects, we need to establish an " OE " (Optimum

> Exercise) standard of terminology and application.

XXXXX So what in your opinion represents " optimum exercise " and what

are the most important measures by which one can judge whether one is

getting it? Thanks. XXXXX

>

[Guest guest]

As a scientist, I can't ignore any data whether it's called anecdotal or not. There is little scientific evidence in the health field's articles.

Personal experiences are hard to dismiss.

Armstrong is cylcing because he survived and can cycle - that's all I can conclude.

I hafta think if exercise was good for longevity, footballers, eg, would live forever.

Without pushing anything, allow me to post a medical text.

DeLee: DeLee and Drez's Orthopaedic Sports Medicine, 2nd ed.,

Section D Athletes and Sudden Cardiac Death

S. Dunnick MD, FACC

Pheidippides may have been one of the first athletes to suffer a sudden death event during an athletic endeavor. Hank Gathers, Reggie , Flo Hyman, and Maravich may be among the better-known athletes to have suffered such an event. Although it has been reported with less dramatic publicity, sudden death of athletes during high school physical education class or on the Little League baseball diamond is equally tragic.

I discuss both screening and more detailed diagnostic tests that are used to try to detect the athlete who is at higher risk. I also discuss the use of the evaluation for approximating risk groups in terms of probabilities and possibilities rather than absolutes.

Barry Maron published a schematic of the number of athletes who were screened for heart disease. Not all athletes with heart disease have heart disease that is capable of producing sudden cardiac death. Not all athletes with a heart problem capable of causing sudden death actually go on to experience sudden death. Therefore, a large total number of athletes must be screened to determine the percentage who have heart disease. Then, the percentage of athletes with heart disease that can lead to sudden death is evaluated. Finally, it is the smallest group that actually goes on to experience sudden death. These types of statistical approaches lead to conclusions that in the minds of the athlete, the family of the athlete, the coaching staff, and the school administration show a variable range. On one end of the spectrum is complete fear of competing in any setting or after any degree of evaluation, regardless of how extensive it may be. On the other end, minimal effort is made to screen the athlete because it is believed that the problem is too infrequent to support the economic commitment.{interesting -what?}

If the combined prevalence of congenital heart conditions that could cause sudden cardiac death is approximately 0.3% of the general population, we must begin to look at the total number of athletes involved.[42] If there are approximately 5000 professional athletes, 500,000 college athletes, and 5,000,000 high school athletes, the total number of 5,505,000 is reached. At 0.3%, it appears that there are 16,515 athletes with the potential for sudden cardiac death. Not all athletes with the possibility of having a sudden death event, however, actually die in this way.

[72] estimated the incidence of sudden cardiac death that occurred during jogging in Rhode Island. During the period of 1975 through 1980, the incidence rate was reported as 1 death per 15,240 joggers per year. In a New England Journal of Medicine article written by Siscovick,[68] sudden death during “vigorous exercise” was reported as 1 cardiac arrest per 20,000 exercises in Seattle per year.

The annual incidence rates of sudden death among joggers in Dallas [25] and marathon runners in South Africa[54] are reportedly higher: 3 to 4 per 20,000 exercisers per year.

Multiple studies[68] [72] [77] have suggested that the risk of sudden death is increased during times of greater exertion in any given 24-hour period. In Finland, [77] a 4.5-fold increased risk was noted in cross-country skiers; in Rhode Island,[72] a 7-fold increased risk was recorded among joggers; and in Seattle,[68] a 6-fold increased risk in athletes has been documented. These studies provide good and reproducible data that indicate that there appears to be an increased risk of sudden death during exercise.

This increased risk of sudden death during exercise actually decreases as a given individual spends increased amounts of time exercising. Siscovick showed that men who exercise for less than 20 minutes per week had a 56-fold increase in sudden death during exercise. As exercise time per week increased, the sudden death rate fell, and at peak, this rate for men exercising longer than 20 minutes per day was reduced to a 5-fold increase. {I notice this is less than the increased risk from HRT which has been criticized.}

Causes

The causes of sudden cardiac death among athletes vary by age [46] ( Fig. 7D-1 ). Numbers, again, are not exact but estimates have been made. In the athlete who is older than 35 years of age, coronary artery disease remains the most frequent cause of sudden cardiac death. Other diseases are prevalent at variable rates, however, as is shown in the figure.

Figure 7-D-1 Estimated prevalences of cardiovascular diseases responsible for sudden death are compared in young (=35 years old) and older (>35 years) trained athletes. Top, Causes of sudden cardiac death in young competitive athletes (median age, 17 years), based on systematic tracking of 158 athletes in the United States, primarily from 1985 to 1995. In an additional 2% of the series, no evidence of cardiovascular disease sufficient to explain death was evident at autopsy. “Possible HCM” denotes hearts with some morphologic features consistent with (but not diagnostic of) hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. (Adapted from Maron BJ, Shirani J, Paliac LC: Sudden death in young competitive athletes. Clinical, demographic, and pathological profiles. JAMA 276:199-204, 1996. Copyright 1996, American Medical Association.) Bottom, Causes of sudden cardiac death in older trained athletes. Data were assembled by collating findings from available published studies. Ao, aorta; ARVD, arrhythmogenic right ventricular dysplasia; AS, aortic stenosis; CAD, coronary artery disease; LAD, left anterior descending; MVP, mitral valve prolapse. (From Maron BJ, Epstein SE, WC: Causes of sudden death in competitive athletes. J Am Coll Cardiol 7:204-214, 1986. Reprinted with permission from the American College of Cardiology.)

Among athletes, 90% of sudden deaths appear to occur during exercise, predominantly during late afternoon and early evening hours.

Notice the TONE of the article is that some have heart problems - not that exercise can cure, or not cure. The idea is to detect those at risk and limit their activites, I suppose.

Our TONE should be which exercise will extend life or lower mortality, - not vague claims that larger lumens are good, eg. Another question: is there a benefit of exercise that out weighs the SCD risk?

Regards.

[Guest guest]

As a scientist, I can't ignore any data whether it's called anecdotal or not. There is little scientific evidence in the health field's articles.

Personal experiences are hard to dismiss.

Armstrong is cylcing because he survived and can cycle - that's all I can conclude.

I hafta think if exercise was good for longevity, footballers, eg, would live forever.

Without pushing anything, allow me to post a medical text.

DeLee: DeLee and Drez's Orthopaedic Sports Medicine, 2nd ed.,

Section D Athletes and Sudden Cardiac Death

S. Dunnick MD, FACC

Pheidippides may have been one of the first athletes to suffer a sudden death event during an athletic endeavor. Hank Gathers, Reggie , Flo Hyman, and Maravich may be among the better-known athletes to have suffered such an event. Although it has been reported with less dramatic publicity, sudden death of athletes during high school physical education class or on the Little League baseball diamond is equally tragic.

I discuss both screening and more detailed diagnostic tests that are used to try to detect the athlete who is at higher risk. I also discuss the use of the evaluation for approximating risk groups in terms of probabilities and possibilities rather than absolutes.

Barry Maron published a schematic of the number of athletes who were screened for heart disease. Not all athletes with heart disease have heart disease that is capable of producing sudden cardiac death. Not all athletes with a heart problem capable of causing sudden death actually go on to experience sudden death. Therefore, a large total number of athletes must be screened to determine the percentage who have heart disease. Then, the percentage of athletes with heart disease that can lead to sudden death is evaluated. Finally, it is the smallest group that actually goes on to experience sudden death. These types of statistical approaches lead to conclusions that in the minds of the athlete, the family of the athlete, the coaching staff, and the school administration show a variable range. On one end of the spectrum is complete fear of competing in any setting or after any degree of evaluation, regardless of how extensive it may be. On the other end, minimal effort is made to screen the athlete because it is believed that the problem is too infrequent to support the economic commitment.{interesting -what?}

If the combined prevalence of congenital heart conditions that could cause sudden cardiac death is approximately 0.3% of the general population, we must begin to look at the total number of athletes involved.[42] If there are approximately 5000 professional athletes, 500,000 college athletes, and 5,000,000 high school athletes, the total number of 5,505,000 is reached. At 0.3%, it appears that there are 16,515 athletes with the potential for sudden cardiac death. Not all athletes with the possibility of having a sudden death event, however, actually die in this way.

[72] estimated the incidence of sudden cardiac death that occurred during jogging in Rhode Island. During the period of 1975 through 1980, the incidence rate was reported as 1 death per 15,240 joggers per year. In a New England Journal of Medicine article written by Siscovick,[68] sudden death during “vigorous exercise” was reported as 1 cardiac arrest per 20,000 exercises in Seattle per year.

The annual incidence rates of sudden death among joggers in Dallas [25] and marathon runners in South Africa[54] are reportedly higher: 3 to 4 per 20,000 exercisers per year.

Multiple studies[68] [72] [77] have suggested that the risk of sudden death is increased during times of greater exertion in any given 24-hour period. In Finland, [77] a 4.5-fold increased risk was noted in cross-country skiers; in Rhode Island,[72] a 7-fold increased risk was recorded among joggers; and in Seattle,[68] a 6-fold increased risk in athletes has been documented. These studies provide good and reproducible data that indicate that there appears to be an increased risk of sudden death during exercise.

This increased risk of sudden death during exercise actually decreases as a given individual spends increased amounts of time exercising. Siscovick showed that men who exercise for less than 20 minutes per week had a 56-fold increase in sudden death during exercise. As exercise time per week increased, the sudden death rate fell, and at peak, this rate for men exercising longer than 20 minutes per day was reduced to a 5-fold increase. {I notice this is less than the increased risk from HRT which has been criticized.}

Causes

The causes of sudden cardiac death among athletes vary by age [46] ( Fig. 7D-1 ). Numbers, again, are not exact but estimates have been made. In the athlete who is older than 35 years of age, coronary artery disease remains the most frequent cause of sudden cardiac death. Other diseases are prevalent at variable rates, however, as is shown in the figure.

Figure 7-D-1 Estimated prevalences of cardiovascular diseases responsible for sudden death are compared in young (=35 years old) and older (>35 years) trained athletes. Top, Causes of sudden cardiac death in young competitive athletes (median age, 17 years), based on systematic tracking of 158 athletes in the United States, primarily from 1985 to 1995. In an additional 2% of the series, no evidence of cardiovascular disease sufficient to explain death was evident at autopsy. “Possible HCM” denotes hearts with some morphologic features consistent with (but not diagnostic of) hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. (Adapted from Maron BJ, Shirani J, Paliac LC: Sudden death in young competitive athletes. Clinical, demographic, and pathological profiles. JAMA 276:199-204, 1996. Copyright 1996, American Medical Association.) Bottom, Causes of sudden cardiac death in older trained athletes. Data were assembled by collating findings from available published studies. Ao, aorta; ARVD, arrhythmogenic right ventricular dysplasia; AS, aortic stenosis; CAD, coronary artery disease; LAD, left anterior descending; MVP, mitral valve prolapse. (From Maron BJ, Epstein SE, WC: Causes of sudden death in competitive athletes. J Am Coll Cardiol 7:204-214, 1986. Reprinted with permission from the American College of Cardiology.)

Among athletes, 90% of sudden deaths appear to occur during exercise, predominantly during late afternoon and early evening hours.

Notice the TONE of the article is that some have heart problems - not that exercise can cure, or not cure. The idea is to detect those at risk and limit their activites, I suppose.

Our TONE should be which exercise will extend life or lower mortality, - not vague claims that larger lumens are good, eg. Another question: is there a benefit of exercise that out weighs the SCD risk?

Regards.