Re: Sour Raw Milk

[Guest guest]

>I understand that, but that's not a change from veggies to grains, its a

>change from unrefined grains to refined grains. In the rural areas it wasn't

much

>of an issue because you just went down to the village grist mill once a week.

That's true. The grain issue is another big one ...

>Yes, but that also included an enormous amount of grain. Having a cow does

>not give a steady stream of milk at all, because the cows dried up in the late

>fall and didn't produce milk again until they calved in spring, which leaves

>without milk for almost half a year. With several cows you can make butter and

>cheese to preserve through the winter. It wasn't until the 1800s that New

>Englanders of moderate wealth had year-round dairy, and not until the late

1800s

>that all wealth classes could have year-round dairy.

I agree that they ate a lot of grain. My grandad says he " lived off oatmeal "

most

of his life. He also ate a LOT of potatoes, turnips, cabbages, pork fat, and

goat

products. And probably eggs, though he didn't say so. I didn't know cows dried

up in the winter though -- my understanding is that once you breed a cow,

they produce milk for about a year (305 days). Is that just a feature of modern

cows?

I was NOT trying to make a point that people suddenly became grain-eaters

when they became city-dwellers. I was saying that I read most of my

diet-change stuff from people who were writing about that. And probably

it should be refined to " finely ground processed grain " increase. And probably

it really depends on how rich the person was. There were (and are) a lot of

people in the cities who eat nothing BUT refined grain products (pancakes

for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch, and noodles for dinner). And

probably their emphasis was on *wheat* which is a special case.

>Most people of all classes grew grain. Corn and Rye were major staples in

>the diet. You are right, if you grow it, you eat it-- and everyone was eating

>corn and rye in New England. Not to mention beer. Up until the 1800s

>everybody drank beer as the main beverage. During the 1800s that shifted to

hard

>cider (which is a shift to *less* grains), mostly because apples are easier to

>grow.

Hehe. Good ol' ny Appleseed. I'd expect in the colder Northern states

(and in the dryer states) people would eat more grain, poportionately -- or

eat more meat. If you read the old cookbooks, their mix of food was a lot

different than we see today ... but the cookbooks probably don't reflect

what the lower classes were eating.

>They ate a ton of meat and fish. And corn. Not veggies so much.

OK, point taken. Actually we have that problem around here. I've been

trying to buy vegies locally. But shoot, they don't GROW locally in winter.

There are zero vegies, except collard greens and some lettuce, if

it doesn't snow. So now I'm understanding why the Koreans invented

Kimchi -- if you want vegies, you make Kimchi. Or kraut. But the

Pilgrims were not Korean or German!

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:27:55 -0700 (PDT)

Jafa Sum <jafasum@...> wrote:

> At this point I would have to ask if there is any way to smell or tell whether

the raw milk has any of the " bad " pathogens in it that milk is being pastuerized

for? Call me totally ignorant, but I used to think that the sour smell meant

that it had gone bad and one should diffinitely not drink it or he is risking

food poisoning.

>

> Jafa

Hi Jafa,

If you are buying your milk from a clean source I wouldn't worry about

the " bad pathogens. " The problem with " bad pathogens " in milk in the

early part of the last century had to do with how the milk was handled,

not what was in the milk itself. And even that is a rather simplistic

explanation. I'm working on a chapter in my book which explores this

subject in detail.

Just recently I drank some milk that had been in my refrigerator for

over six weeks. I didn't put any kefir grains into but after that period

of time it was seperated and nice and sour. I shook it up, threw some

eggs and fruit into the mix, along with some stevia (was out of honey),

and drank away. Quite refreshing.

It make take a period of transition, but soured/fermented foods are

quite good for you, be they dairy, vegetables, fruit, or meat