Re: bleed control

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/19/2006 4:30:12 A.M. Central Standard Time,

rmo@... writes:

New advertising states that it is now a lot less exothermic and comes in

pads to stop it blowing around, and is now issued to ALL US forces. Is this

correct?

As I understand it this is a true statement but that information comes of

course from the US sales force.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

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retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

[Guest guest]

Nigle,

You have come to the right place. I have a site that was put together for

tactical medicine resources and there is a few videos on the tourniquit and as

far as the quick clot. www.NH-TEMS.com The navy is useing the quick

clot and the army (US) is using the hemocon wafer. I'm not a spec ops operator

but, I am trained to pe a support element with them (medically) quick clot in

powder form burns through gloves and takes a certain tecnique and training. Yes

contact with moist/ wet skin burns and the other one you refered to is ACS in a

tea bag (sort of) this eliminates the excess grannules from being placed away

from the bleed. It is basicly inorganic clay that rapidly absorbes moisture and

that is how you get heat. I can get into more detail as to properly use it if

you like and a few key things with this. For example: never use it in a head

wound, or torso wound. I worked with the navy side researching the ability to

clot off blood and other things and the

biggest thing is propper packing with gauze over vessel with pressure and a

good bandage like the emergency bandage from performance systems. Another good

school I did to use these and other devices was the military pig lab. Great

experience!

HM2 shawn Buxton USN,EMT-T, NREMT-I

rmo@... wrote:

Hi All.

A couple of years ago I did a lot of research into Quick Clot, and the message

was that it was being over-hyped. Reports of it blowing in eyes, and cooking

tissues etc, led to it being I think banned by US Spec Ops, although still

issued to general forces.

New advertising states that it is now a lot less exothermic and comes in pads to

stop it blowing around, and is now issued to ALL US forces. Is this correct?

Also I have seen several references to the 'new US tourniquet guidelines' As I

teach in the UK, where TQs are frowned upon outside military use, can anyone

direct me to where I can find details and supporting research of these new

guidelines please.

Have a peaceful Christmas, even if you don't celebrate it.

Nigel Smee

Mediact Ltd.

UK

Buxton,EMT-T,Nremt-I,USN

Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class

DHS/FEMA/NDMS/DMAT MA-1 BOSTON- SAFETY OFFICER

C:(603)-396-8235

H:(603)-210-1671

P:(603)-221-1091

sailorboysmb@...

MEDICINA BONA LOCIS MALIS

[Guest guest]

Hi Nigel,

Quik Clot certainly has gained a lot of attention, hasn't it?

I recall when it first hit the market it was in powder form. Recently

I've seen it in a more granulated form, I'm told to reduce the chance

of it being blown around in the medic's face and other unwanted

areas. I have heard about impregnated pads but have not seen them.

As for the exothermic reaction - I used the stuff several weeks ago in

a class, and it will still boil small amounts of water. Pretty hot

stuff!

As for 'all US forces' carrying it, no. How many units are using it

will likely never be known as a medic's inventory can and often does

vary from unit-to-unit. Even within the same service there is

variance; one Army infantry unit, for instance, will carry certain

medical materials that another may not. Hell, I know some spec ops

units that are still jumping in with MAST pants in their ruck, while

the rest of the world has mostly left these things in storage. Quik

Clot is controversial enough that there is a great deal of variance.

While I cannot speak to the entire US forces, I know that - generally

speaking - US Air Force PJs and Navy SEALs do not carry it. I am

involved in their ongoing training and have not met one in the past 8-

9 years that says it's in his unit's stock. I have heard that Navy

Corpsmen used it quite a bit, and the Army far less so. I have also

seen the company's advertising claims on their website, and in some

respects it is simply not accurate.

As for tourniquets, the push for the past several years has been to

use them far more liberally than in the past. This comes from, I

believe, the CCC course and the data related in it from Viet Nam about

the number of lost lives due to uncontrolled bleeding.

Best,

Larry

bleed control

> Hi All.

>

> A couple of years ago I did a lot of research into Quick Clot, and

> the message was that it was being over-hyped. Reports of it

> blowing in eyes, and cooking tissues etc, led to it being I think

> banned by US Spec Ops, although still issued to general forces.

> New advertising states that it is now a lot less exothermic and

> comes in pads to stop it blowing around, and is now issued to ALL

> US forces. Is this correct?

>

> Also I have seen several references to the 'new US tourniquet

> guidelines' As I teach in the UK, where TQs are frowned upon

> outside military use, can anyone direct me to where I can find

> details and supporting research of these new guidelines please.

>

>

> Have a peaceful Christmas, even if you don't celebrate it.

>

> Nigel Smee

> Mediact Ltd.

> UK

[Guest guest]

the following websites provide some info on various clotting

materials. i have some of this material, but have never needed to use

it. so this is not an endorsement.

Q

http://www.biolife.com/

http://www.clinicaladvances.com/hemonc/2004/0704/0704_advhem.pdf

http://www.aacn.org/AACN/InfLink5.nsf/85255e6f0052055e85255d7f005ed8bc/D12960123\

29543C788256BA40047A443?OpenDocument

http://www.swatdoctor.com/images/Blood_Clotters_Article.pdf

[Guest guest]

Hello all,

I received the following email in response to my posting. My attempt

to contact the sender and tell him to post his message to the group

site failed. Seems like good info, so I am posting his email in proxy.

Take care,

Q

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

from Quinlisk <jmquinlisk@...>

to gammabeta226 <gammabeta226@...>

date Dec 20, 2006 4:14 PM

subject Re: bleed control

Hi Luke,

You message came to me, but I don't see it posted on the group site. I

think it only came to me. I thought you might want to know.

I don't know much about IV coagulants, but they sound like potential

embolism producers.

Take care,

Q

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On 12/20/06, gammabeta226 <gammabeta226@...> wrote:

> I know the thread was dealing with topical hemostatic agents but the

> subject jogged my memory about the reporting of the judicious use of

> an intravenous procoagulant - Factor VII. The Baltimore Sun

> recently wrote a 3 story series about this medication being used in

> the forward combat areas in Iraq and I thought it would be good for

> those in or near those combat areas to be aware of some of the

> prothrombotic complications associated with the medication.

>

> The link is

>

> http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/iraq/bal-

> factorvii,0,2855253.storygallery?coll=bal-home-utility

>

>

> Luke

>

[Guest guest]

On the subject of tourniquets, I remenber in the dark ages when I was first

trained that they were essentialy a no no. but in light of recent reports

and a rumored study which I have not been able to confirm ,I am willing to

bet they will make a big come back in training. The story running around

Iraq and Afghanl land as well as a couple of news reports I read and saw,

" currently 90 % " of the battle fataliies in both countries were due to blood

loss from extremies. If this true and personnel expereince points in the

direction a tourniquet is the way to go

Cheers

Tom G

>From: ltorrey@...

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: bleed control

>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:47:40 -0500

>

>Hi Nigel,

>

>Quik Clot certainly has gained a lot of attention, hasn't it?

>

>I recall when it first hit the market it was in powder form. Recently

>I've seen it in a more granulated form, I'm told to reduce the chance

>of it being blown around in the medic's face and other unwanted

>areas. I have heard about impregnated pads but have not seen them.

>As for the exothermic reaction - I used the stuff several weeks ago in

>a class, and it will still boil small amounts of water. Pretty hot

>stuff!

>

>As for 'all US forces' carrying it, no. How many units are using it

>will likely never be known as a medic's inventory can and often does

>vary from unit-to-unit. Even within the same service there is

>variance; one Army infantry unit, for instance, will carry certain

>medical materials that another may not. Hell, I know some spec ops

>units that are still jumping in with MAST pants in their ruck, while

>the rest of the world has mostly left these things in storage. Quik

>Clot is controversial enough that there is a great deal of variance.

>

>While I cannot speak to the entire US forces, I know that - generally

>speaking - US Air Force PJs and Navy SEALs do not carry it. I am

>involved in their ongoing training and have not met one in the past 8-

>9 years that says it's in his unit's stock. I have heard that Navy

>Corpsmen used it quite a bit, and the Army far less so. I have also

>seen the company's advertising claims on their website, and in some

>respects it is simply not accurate.

>

>As for tourniquets, the push for the past several years has been to

>use them far more liberally than in the past. This comes from, I

>believe, the CCC course and the data related in it from Viet Nam about

>the number of lost lives due to uncontrolled bleeding.

>

>Best,

>Larry

>

> bleed control

>

>

> > Hi All.

> >

> > A couple of years ago I did a lot of research into Quick Clot, and

> > the message was that it was being over-hyped. Reports of it

> > blowing in eyes, and cooking tissues etc, led to it being I think

> > banned by US Spec Ops, although still issued to general forces.

> > New advertising states that it is now a lot less exothermic and

> > comes in pads to stop it blowing around, and is now issued to ALL

> > US forces. Is this correct?

> >

> > Also I have seen several references to the 'new US tourniquet

> > guidelines' As I teach in the UK, where TQs are frowned upon

> > outside military use, can anyone direct me to where I can find

> > details and supporting research of these new guidelines please.

> >

> >

> > Have a peaceful Christmas, even if you don't celebrate it.

> >

> > Nigel Smee

> > Mediact Ltd.

> > UK

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

TQ's have been a first line of care for combat casualty care in the field. OEMS

(operational and emergency medical skills course) which is the US military live

tissue lab. They teach a mneumonic- MARCH= Major bleeding is first, then

airway, respirations, circulation and head inj./ hypothermia. I have a site

dedicated to this type of medicine www.NH-TEMS.com

shawn

thomas greaber <tom5255@...> wrote:

On the subject of tourniquets, I remenber in the dark ages when I was

first

trained that they were essentialy a no no. but in light of recent reports

and a rumored study which I have not been able to confirm ,I am willing to

bet they will make a big come back in training. The story running around

Iraq and Afghanl land as well as a couple of news reports I read and saw,

" currently 90 % " of the battle fataliies in both countries were due to blood

loss from extremies. If this true and personnel expereince points in the

direction a tourniquet is the way to go

Cheers

Tom G

>From: ltorrey@...

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: bleed control

>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:47:40 -0500

>

>Hi Nigel,

>

>Quik Clot certainly has gained a lot of attention, hasn't it?

>

>I recall when it first hit the market it was in powder form. Recently

>I've seen it in a more granulated form, I'm told to reduce the chance

>of it being blown around in the medic's face and other unwanted

>areas. I have heard about impregnated pads but have not seen them.

>As for the exothermic reaction - I used the stuff several weeks ago in

>a class, and it will still boil small amounts of water. Pretty hot

>stuff!

>

>As for 'all US forces' carrying it, no. How many units are using it

>will likely never be known as a medic's inventory can and often does

>vary from unit-to-unit. Even within the same service there is

>variance; one Army infantry unit, for instance, will carry certain

>medical materials that another may not. Hell, I know some spec ops

>units that are still jumping in with MAST pants in their ruck, while

>the rest of the world has mostly left these things in storage. Quik

>Clot is controversial enough that there is a great deal of variance.

>

>While I cannot speak to the entire US forces, I know that - generally

>speaking - US Air Force PJs and Navy SEALs do not carry it. I am

>involved in their ongoing training and have not met one in the past 8-

>9 years that says it's in his unit's stock. I have heard that Navy

>Corpsmen used it quite a bit, and the Army far less so. I have also

>seen the company's advertising claims on their website, and in some

>respects it is simply not accurate.

>

>As for tourniquets, the push for the past several years has been to

>use them far more liberally than in the past. This comes from, I

>believe, the CCC course and the data related in it from Viet Nam about

>the number of lost lives due to uncontrolled bleeding.

>

>Best,

>Larry

>

> bleed control

>

>

> > Hi All.

> >

> > A couple of years ago I did a lot of research into Quick Clot, and

> > the message was that it was being over-hyped. Reports of it

> > blowing in eyes, and cooking tissues etc, led to it being I think

> > banned by US Spec Ops, although still issued to general forces.

> > New advertising states that it is now a lot less exothermic and

> > comes in pads to stop it blowing around, and is now issued to ALL

> > US forces. Is this correct?

> >

> > Also I have seen several references to the 'new US tourniquet

> > guidelines' As I teach in the UK, where TQs are frowned upon

> > outside military use, can anyone direct me to where I can find

> > details and supporting research of these new guidelines please.

> >

> >

> > Have a peaceful Christmas, even if you don't celebrate it.

> >

> > Nigel Smee

> > Mediact Ltd.

> > UK

__________________________________________________________

Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page

www.live.com/?addtemplate=football & icid=T001MSN30A0701

Buxton,EMT-T,Nremt-I,USN

Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class

DHS/FEMA/NDMS/DMAT MA-1 BOSTON- SAFETY OFFICER

C:(603)-396-8235

H:(603)-210-1671

P:(603)-221-1091

sailorboysmb@...

MEDICINA BONA LOCIS MALIS

[Guest guest]

Tom et all:

A friend of mine is making a new product, " Kroon " well improved at least

over the old style " T " .

It is called SOF Tactical Tourniquet http://www.zulunine.com/ or

http://www.dropzonetactical.com/ I hope these links work.

The impudis to make a better " mousetrap " came from a story of a Canuckistanian

Medic that got " blowd up " with a roadside IED.

He had to improvise very quickly with standard battle dressing while he was

" treating himself " (a member of PPCLI) .

As the types of mechanism(s) of injuries change with the times, the potential

for difficult to control exsanginating haemorrhage also affects the oilpatch and

woodland firefighters and the forestry industry. I carry one of these for

degloving injuries and chainsaw 'oops " and entrapped MVC patients, it certianly

beats " manually holding direct pressure " when the hose monkeys are extricating.

Also would like to wish ALL a Peaceful Holiday Season.

No matter what you may call the " Great Spirit " may he/she watch over my friends.

cheers

Wilf

Re: bleed control

.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

This is an interesting move away from DRABCDE which is

taught in the Australian Defence Forces, and in our paramedical

agencies. I can see the logic behind using MARCH in a combat situation,

but there will be mitigating circumstances surrounding the use of MARCH

over DRABCDE, and no doubt a lot of discussion will be generated between

the two casualty treatment.

Rgds,

Jim C.

________________________________

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Buxton

Sent: Friday, 22 December 2006 01:12

Subject: Re: bleed control

TQ's have been a first line of care for combat casualty care in the

field. OEMS (operational and emergency medical skills course) which is

the US military live tissue lab. They teach a mneumonic- MARCH= Major

bleeding is first, then airway, respirations, circulation and head inj./

hypothermia. I have a site dedicated to this type of medicine

www.NH-TEMS.com

shawn

thomas greaber <tom5255@... <mailto:tom5255%40hotmail.com> >

wrote:

On the subject of tourniquets, I remenber in the dark ages when I was

first

trained that they were essentialy a no no. but in light of recent

reports

and a rumored study which I have not been able to confirm ,I am willing

to

bet they will make a big come back in training. The story running around

Iraq and Afghanl land as well as a couple of news reports I read and

saw,

" currently 90 % " of the battle fataliies in both countries were due to

blood

loss from extremies. If this true and personnel expereince points in the

direction a tourniquet is the way to go

Cheers

Tom G

>From: ltorrey@... <mailto:ltorrey%40maine.rr.com>

>Reply-

<mailto:%40>

>

<mailto:%40>

>Subject: Re: bleed control

>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:47:40 -0500

>

>Hi Nigel,

>

>Quik Clot certainly has gained a lot of attention, hasn't it?

>

>I recall when it first hit the market it was in powder form. Recently

>I've seen it in a more granulated form, I'm told to reduce the chance

>of it being blown around in the medic's face and other unwanted

>areas. I have heard about impregnated pads but have not seen them.

>As for the exothermic reaction - I used the stuff several weeks ago in

>a class, and it will still boil small amounts of water. Pretty hot

>stuff!

>

>As for 'all US forces' carrying it, no. How many units are using it

>will likely never be known as a medic's inventory can and often does

>vary from unit-to-unit. Even within the same service there is

>variance; one Army infantry unit, for instance, will carry certain

>medical materials that another may not. Hell, I know some spec ops

>units that are still jumping in with MAST pants in their ruck, while

>the rest of the world has mostly left these things in storage. Quik

>Clot is controversial enough that there is a great deal of variance.

>

>While I cannot speak to the entire US forces, I know that - generally

>speaking - US Air Force PJs and Navy SEALs do not carry it. I am

>involved in their ongoing training and have not met one in the past 8-

>9 years that says it's in his unit's stock. I have heard that Navy

>Corpsmen used it quite a bit, and the Army far less so. I have also

>seen the company's advertising claims on their website, and in some

>respects it is simply not accurate.

>

>As for tourniquets, the push for the past several years has been to

>use them far more liberally than in the past. This comes from, I

>believe, the CCC course and the data related in it from Viet Nam about

>the number of lost lives due to uncontrolled bleeding.

>

>Best,

>Larry

>

> bleed control

>

<mailto:%40>

>

> > Hi All.

> >

> > A couple of years ago I did a lot of research into Quick Clot, and

> > the message was that it was being over-hyped. Reports of it

> > blowing in eyes, and cooking tissues etc, led to it being I think

> > banned by US Spec Ops, although still issued to general forces.

> > New advertising states that it is now a lot less exothermic and

> > comes in pads to stop it blowing around, and is now issued to ALL

> > US forces. Is this correct?

> >

> > Also I have seen several references to the 'new US tourniquet

> > guidelines' As I teach in the UK, where TQs are frowned upon

> > outside military use, can anyone direct me to where I can find

> > details and supporting research of these new guidelines please.

> >

> >

> > Have a peaceful Christmas, even if you don't celebrate it.

> >

> > Nigel Smee

> > Mediact Ltd.

> > UK

__________________________________________________________

Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page

www.live.com/?addtemplate=football & icid=T001MSN30A0701

Buxton,EMT-T,Nremt-I,USN

Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class

DHS/FEMA/NDMS/DMAT MA-1 BOSTON- SAFETY OFFICER

C:(603)-396-8235

H:(603)-210-1671

P:(603)-221-1091

sailorboysmb@... <mailto:sailorboysmb%40>

MEDICINA BONA LOCIS MALIS

[Guest guest]

There are lots of these products on the market; we have the SATS

(Self-Applied Tourniquet System) at my site . It beggars belief that

there is so much variation in the dissemination of information and

advice on product availability and that front line troops, of

whatever nationality, are still having to improvise when these

products have been around for some time. I don't know when your

friend `developed' his tourniquet but we've had the SATS here a

couple of years ( I think) and there are lots of others out there.

On a completely different topic…and I know I'm going to regret this

but …can we please stop this butchering of the English

language. `Impudis', I think you mean `impetus' Wilf! We can all

make a few typo's (exsanguinating,'blown up') but come on …Reading

some of the posts ( I do not mean yours Wilf) is embarrassing. Lets

raise the standard and use punctuation, sentences that comply with

recognised structure, the spell check facility…or even a dictionary.

Regards

>

> Tom et all:

>

> A friend of mine is making a new product, " Kroon " well

improved at least over the old style " T " .

> It is called SOF Tactical Tourniquet http://www.zulunine.com/ or

http://www.dropzonetactical.com/ I hope these links work.

>

> The impudis to make a better " mousetrap " came from a story of a

Canuckistanian Medic that got " blowd up " with a roadside IED.

> He had to improvise very quickly with standard battle dressing

while he was " treating himself " (a member of PPCLI) .

>

> As the types of mechanism(s) of injuries change with the times, the

potential for difficult to control exsanginating haemorrhage also

affects the oilpatch and woodland firefighters and the forestry

industry. I carry one of these for degloving injuries and

chainsaw 'oops " and entrapped MVC patients, it certianly

beats " manually holding direct pressure " when the hose monkeys are

extricating.

>

> Also would like to wish ALL a Peaceful Holiday Season.

> No matter what you may call the " Great Spirit " may he/she watch

over my friends.

>

> cheers

>

> Wilf

>

>

> Re: bleed control

>

>

> .

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wilf

see I told you you aint got no good english!

LOL!

Tom G

>From: " cpfmedic " <cpfmedic@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: bleed control

>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 06:59:45 -0000

>

>There are lots of these products on the market; we have the SATS

>(Self-Applied Tourniquet System) at my site . It beggars belief that

>there is so much variation in the dissemination of information and

>advice on product availability and that front line troops, of

>whatever nationality, are still having to improvise when these

>products have been around for some time. I don't know when your

>friend `developed' his tourniquet but we've had the SATS here a

>couple of years ( I think) and there are lots of others out there.

>

>On a completely different topic…and I know I'm going to regret this

>but …can we please stop this butchering of the English

>language. `Impudis', I think you mean `impetus' Wilf! We can all

>make a few typo's (exsanguinating,'blown up') but come on …Reading

>some of the posts ( I do not mean yours Wilf) is embarrassing. Lets

>raise the standard and use punctuation, sentences that comply with

>recognised structure, the spell check facility…or even a dictionary.

>

>Regards

>

>

> >

> > Tom et all:

> >

> > A friend of mine is making a new product, " Kroon " well

>improved at least over the old style " T " .

> > It is called SOF Tactical Tourniquet http://www.zulunine.com/ or

>http://www.dropzonetactical.com/ I hope these links work.

> >

> > The impudis to make a better " mousetrap " came from a story of a

>Canuckistanian Medic that got " blowd up " with a roadside IED.

> > He had to improvise very quickly with standard battle dressing

>while he was " treating himself " (a member of PPCLI) .

> >

> > As the types of mechanism(s) of injuries change with the times, the

>potential for difficult to control exsanginating haemorrhage also

>affects the oilpatch and woodland firefighters and the forestry

>industry. I carry one of these for degloving injuries and

>chainsaw 'oops " and entrapped MVC patients, it certianly

>beats " manually holding direct pressure " when the hose monkeys are

>extricating.

> >

> > Also would like to wish ALL a Peaceful Holiday Season.

> > No matter what you may call the " Great Spirit " may he/she watch

>over my friends.

> >

> > cheers

> >

> > Wilf

> >

> >

> > Re: bleed control

> >

> >

> > .

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Jim,

There was a paper recently, but can't remember

where, that pointed very closely at DR, major

blood loss then ABCDE. One of the authors was

Professor Colonel Tim Hodgetts from the UK.

Ross

> Re: bleed control

>>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:47:40 -0500

>>

>>Hi Nigel,

>>

>>Quik Clot certainly has gained a lot of

>attention, hasn't it?

>>

>>I recall when it first hit the market

>it was in powder form. Recently

>>I've seen it in a more granulated form,

>I'm told to reduce the chance

>>of it being blown around in the medic's

>face and other unwanted

>>areas. I have heard about impregnated

>pads but have not seen them.

>>As for the exothermic reaction - I used

>the stuff several weeks ago in

>>a class, and it will still boil small

>amounts of water. Pretty hot

>>stuff!

>>

>>As for 'all US forces' carrying it, no.

>How many units are using it

>>will likely never be known as a medic's

>inventory can and often does

>>vary from unit-to-unit. Even within the

>same service there is

>>variance; one Army infantry unit, for

>instance, will carry certain

>>medical materials that another may not.

>Hell, I know some spec ops

>>units that are still jumping in with

>MAST pants in their ruck, while

>>the rest of the world has mostly left

>these things in storage. Quik

>>Clot is controversial enough that there

>is a great deal of variance.

>>

>>While I cannot speak to the entire US

>forces, I know that - generally

>>speaking - US Air Force PJs and Navy

>SEALs do not carry it. I am

>>involved in their ongoing training and

>have not met one in the past 8-

>>9 years that says it's in his unit's

>stock. I have heard that Navy

>>Corpsmen used it quite a bit, and the

>Army far less so. I have also

>>seen the company's advertising claims

>on their website, and in some

>>respects it is simply not accurate.

>>

>>As for tourniquets, the push for the

>past several years has been to

>>use them far more liberally than in the

>past. This comes from, I

>>believe, the CCC course and the data

>related in it from Viet Nam about

>>the number of lost lives due to

>uncontrolled bleeding.

>>

>>Best,

>>Larry

>>

>> bleed control

>>

><mailto:%40>

>>

>> > Hi All.

>> >

>> > A couple of years ago I did a lot of

>research into Quick Clot, and

>> > the message was that it was being

>over-hyped. Reports of it

>> > blowing in eyes, and cooking tissues

>etc, led to it being I think

>> > banned by US Spec Ops, although

>still issued to general forces.

>> > New advertising states that it is

>now a lot less exothermic and

>> > comes in pads to stop it blowing

>around, and is now issued to ALL

>> > US forces. Is this correct?

>> >

>> > Also I have seen several references

>to the 'new US tourniquet

>> > guidelines' As I teach in the UK,

>where TQs are frowned upon

>> > outside military use, can anyone

>direct me to where I can find

>> > details and supporting research of

>these new guidelines please.

>> >

>> >

>> > Have a peaceful Christmas, even if

>you don't celebrate it.

>> >

>> > Nigel Smee

>> > Mediact Ltd.

>> > UK

>

>_________________________________________

>_________________

>Get live scores and news about your

>team: Add the Live.com Football Page

>

>www.live.com/?addtemplate=football & icid=T

>001MSN30A0701

>

> Buxton,EMT-T,Nremt-I,USN

>Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class

>DHS/FEMA/NDMS/DMAT MA-1 BOSTON- SAFETY OFFICER

>C:(603)-396-8235

>H:(603)-210-1671

>P:(603)-221-1091

>sailorboysmb@...

<mailto:sailorboysmb%40>

MEDICINA BONA LOCIS MALIS

[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

This message and any attached files may contain

information that is confidential and/or subject of

legal privilege intended only for use by the

intended recipient. If you are not the intended

recipient or the person responsible for delivering

the message to the intended recipient, be advised

that you have received this message in error and

that any dissemination, copying or use of this

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the sender immediately and delete the message.

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Regards

The Remote Medics Team

[Guest guest]

All,

I remember reading something recently (Unusual for me I know) as well as Ross

about the DR {Major Bleeds} ABCDE but i cant remember where it was or who wrote

it, and if my bad memory serves this one time I think it was also on a BARTS

course I did in the Army some 8-9 years ago.

There is an argument for both Major bleeds first and Airway first.

Are there any Paramedics (NHS or not) on the list who would like to add a

point?

Mitch

Ross Boardman <ross.boardman@...> wrote:

Jim,

There was a paper recently, but can't remember

where, that pointed very closely at DR, major

blood loss then ABCDE. One of the authors was

Professor Colonel Tim Hodgetts from the UK.

Ross

> Re: bleed control

>>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:47:40 -0500

>>

>>Hi Nigel,

>>

>>Quik Clot certainly has gained a lot of

>attention, hasn't it?

>>

>>I recall when it first hit the market

>it was in powder form. Recently

>>I've seen it in a more granulated form,

>I'm told to reduce the chance

>>of it being blown around in the medic's

>face and other unwanted

>>areas. I have heard about impregnated

>pads but have not seen them.

>>As for the exothermic reaction - I used

>the stuff several weeks ago in

>>a class, and it will still boil small

>amounts of water. Pretty hot

>>stuff!

>>

>>As for 'all US forces' carrying it, no.

>How many units are using it

>>will likely never be known as a medic's

>inventory can and often does

>>vary from unit-to-unit. Even within the

>same service there is

>>variance; one Army infantry unit, for

>instance, will carry certain

>>medical materials that another may not.

>Hell, I know some spec ops

>>units that are still jumping in with

>MAST pants in their ruck, while

>>the rest of the world has mostly left

>these things in storage. Quik

>>Clot is controversial enough that there

>is a great deal of variance.

>>

>>While I cannot speak to the entire US

>forces, I know that - generally

>>speaking - US Air Force PJs and Navy

>SEALs do not carry it. I am

>>involved in their ongoing training and

>have not met one in the past 8-

>>9 years that says it's in his unit's

>stock. I have heard that Navy

>>Corpsmen used it quite a bit, and the

>Army far less so. I have also

>>seen the company's advertising claims

>on their website, and in some

>>respects it is simply not accurate.

>>

>>As for tourniquets, the push for the

>past several years has been to

>>use them far more liberally than in the

>past. This comes from, I

>>believe, the CCC course and the data

>related in it from Viet Nam about

>>the number of lost lives due to

>uncontrolled bleeding.

>>

>>Best,

>>Larry

>>

>> bleed control

>>

><mailto:%40>

>>

>> > Hi All.

>> >

>> > A couple of years ago I did a lot of

>research into Quick Clot, and

>> > the message was that it was being

>over-hyped. Reports of it

>> > blowing in eyes, and cooking tissues

>etc, led to it being I think

>> > banned by US Spec Ops, although

>still issued to general forces.

>> > New advertising states that it is

>now a lot less exothermic and

>> > comes in pads to stop it blowing

>around, and is now issued to ALL

>> > US forces. Is this correct?

>> >

>> > Also I have seen several references

>to the 'new US tourniquet

>> > guidelines' As I teach in the UK,

>where TQs are frowned upon

>> > outside military use, can anyone

>direct me to where I can find

>> > details and supporting research of

>these new guidelines please.

>> >

>> >

>> > Have a peaceful Christmas, even if

>you don't celebrate it.

>> >

>> > Nigel Smee

>> > Mediact Ltd.

>> > UK

>

>_________________________________________

>_________________

>Get live scores and news about your

>team: Add the Live.com Football Page

>

>www.live.com/?addtemplate=football & icid=T

>001MSN30A0701

>

> Buxton,EMT-T,Nremt-I,USN

>Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class

>DHS/FEMA/NDMS/DMAT MA-1 BOSTON- SAFETY OFFICER

>C:(603)-396-8235

>H:(603)-210-1671

>P:(603)-221-1091

>sailorboysmb@...

<mailto:sailorboysmb%40>

MEDICINA BONA LOCIS MALIS

[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

This message and any attached files may contain

information that is confidential and/or subject of

legal privilege intended only for use by the

intended recipient. If you are not the intended

recipient or the person responsible for delivering

the message to the intended recipient, be advised

that you have received this message in error and

that any dissemination, copying or use of this

message or attachment is strictly forbidden, as is

the disclosure of the information therein. If you

have received this message in error please notify

the sender immediately and delete the message.

[Non-text portions of this message have been

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Editor: Ross Boardman

Editor@...

ALL list admin messages (subscriptions &

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Post message: egroups

Please visit our website

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Regards

The Remote Medics Team

[Guest guest]

Ross

The links below cover blood loss by Tim Hodgetts

http://technology.guardian.co.uk/online/insideit/story/0,,1959940,00.html

www.rcsed.ac.uk/journal/vol47_2/4720002.html

emj.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/19/6/494

http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2006/01/30/1326415.h

Kev

Ross Boardman <ross.boardman@...> wrote:

Jim,

There was a paper recently, but can't remember

where, that pointed very closely at DR, major

blood loss then ABCDE. One of the authors was

Professor Colonel Tim Hodgetts from the UK.

Ross

> Re: bleed control

>>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:47:40 -0500

>>

>>Hi Nigel,

>>

>>Quik Clot certainly has gained a lot of

>attention, hasn't it?

>>

>>I recall when it first hit the market

>it was in powder form. Recently

>>I've seen it in a more granulated form,

>I'm told to reduce the chance

>>of it being blown around in the medic's

>face and other unwanted

>>areas. I have heard about impregnated

>pads but have not seen them.

>>As for the exothermic reaction - I used

>the stuff several weeks ago in

>>a class, and it will still boil small

>amounts of water. Pretty hot

>>stuff!

>>

>>As for 'all US forces' carrying it, no.

>How many units are using it

>>will likely never be known as a medic's

>inventory can and often does

>>vary from unit-to-unit. Even within the

>same service there is

>>variance; one Army infantry unit, for

>instance, will carry certain

>>medical materials that another may not.

>Hell, I know some spec ops

>>units that are still jumping in with

>MAST pants in their ruck, while

>>the rest of the world has mostly left

>these things in storage. Quik

>>Clot is controversial enough that there

>is a great deal of variance.

>>

>>While I cannot speak to the entire US

>forces, I know that - generally

>>speaking - US Air Force PJs and Navy

>SEALs do not carry it. I am

>>involved in their ongoing training and

>have not met one in the past 8-

>>9 years that says it's in his unit's

>stock. I have heard that Navy

>>Corpsmen used it quite a bit, and the

>Army far less so. I have also

>>seen the company's advertising claims

>on their website, and in some

>>respects it is simply not accurate.

>>

>>As for tourniquets, the push for the

>past several years has been to

>>use them far more liberally than in the

>past. This comes from, I

>>believe, the CCC course and the data

>related in it from Viet Nam about

>>the number of lost lives due to

>uncontrolled bleeding.

>>

>>Best,

>>Larry

>>

>> bleed control

>>

><mailto:%40>

>>

>> > Hi All.

>> >

>> > A couple of years ago I did a lot of

>research into Quick Clot, and

>> > the message was that it was being

>over-hyped. Reports of it

>> > blowing in eyes, and cooking tissues

>etc, led to it being I think

>> > banned by US Spec Ops, although

>still issued to general forces.

>> > New advertising states that it is

>now a lot less exothermic and

>> > comes in pads to stop it blowing

>around, and is now issued to ALL

>> > US forces. Is this correct?

>> >

>> > Also I have seen several references

>to the 'new US tourniquet

>> > guidelines' As I teach in the UK,

>where TQs are frowned upon

>> > outside military use, can anyone

>direct me to where I can find

>> > details and supporting research of

>these new guidelines please.

>> >

>> >

>> > Have a peaceful Christmas, even if

>you don't celebrate it.

>> >

>> > Nigel Smee

>> > Mediact Ltd.

>> > UK

>

>_________________________________________

>_________________

>Get live scores and news about your

>team: Add the Live.com Football Page

>

>www.live.com/?addtemplate=football & icid=T

>001MSN30A0701

>

> Buxton,EMT-T,Nremt-I,USN

>Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class

>DHS/FEMA/NDMS/DMAT MA-1 BOSTON- SAFETY OFFICER

>C:(603)-396-8235

>H:(603)-210-1671

>P:(603)-221-1091

>sailorboysmb@...

<mailto:sailorboysmb%40>

MEDICINA BONA LOCIS MALIS

[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

This message and any attached files may contain

information that is confidential and/or subject of

legal privilege intended only for use by the

intended recipient. If you are not the intended

recipient or the person responsible for delivering

the message to the intended recipient, be advised

that you have received this message in error and

that any dissemination, copying or use of this

message or attachment is strictly forbidden, as is

the disclosure of the information therein. If you

have received this message in error please notify

the sender immediately and delete the message.

[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

Member Information:

List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@...

Editor: Ross Boardman

Editor@...

ALL list admin messages (subscriptions &

unsubscriptions) should be sent to the list owner.

Post message: egroups

Please visit our website

http://www.remotemedics.co.uk

Regards

The Remote Medics Team

[Guest guest]

OK,

I'm a us civilian paramedic and a navy Corpsman and I see both ends. The

reason for stopping bleeding before is because by the time you secure airway,

your pt. will bleed out.

shawn Buxton

<lisamitch50@...> wrote:

All,

I remember reading something recently (Unusual for me I know) as well as Ross

about the DR {Major Bleeds} ABCDE but i cant remember where it was or who wrote

it, and if my bad memory serves this one time I think it was also on a BARTS

course I did in the Army some 8-9 years ago.

There is an argument for both Major bleeds first and Airway first.

Are there any Paramedics (NHS or not) on the list who would like to add a point?

Mitch

Ross Boardman <ross.boardman@...> wrote:

Jim,

There was a paper recently, but can't remember

where, that pointed very closely at DR, major

blood loss then ABCDE. One of the authors was

Professor Colonel Tim Hodgetts from the UK.

Ross

> Re: bleed control

>>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:47:40 -0500

>>

>>Hi Nigel,

>>

>>Quik Clot certainly has gained a lot of

>attention, hasn't it?

>>

>>I recall when it first hit the market

>it was in powder form. Recently

>>I've seen it in a more granulated form,

>I'm told to reduce the chance

>>of it being blown around in the medic's

>face and other unwanted

>>areas. I have heard about impregnated

>pads but have not seen them.

>>As for the exothermic reaction - I used

>the stuff several weeks ago in

>>a class, and it will still boil small

>amounts of water. Pretty hot

>>stuff!

>>

>>As for 'all US forces' carrying it, no.

>How many units are using it

>>will likely never be known as a medic's

>inventory can and often does

>>vary from unit-to-unit. Even within the

>same service there is

>>variance; one Army infantry unit, for

>instance, will carry certain

>>medical materials that another may not.

>Hell, I know some spec ops

>>units that are still jumping in with

>MAST pants in their ruck, while

>>the rest of the world has mostly left

>these things in storage. Quik

>>Clot is controversial enough that there

>is a great deal of variance.

>>

>>While I cannot speak to the entire US

>forces, I know that - generally

>>speaking - US Air Force PJs and Navy

>SEALs do not carry it. I am

>>involved in their ongoing training and

>have not met one in the past 8-

>>9 years that says it's in his unit's

>stock. I have heard that Navy

>>Corpsmen used it quite a bit, and the

>Army far less so. I have also

>>seen the company's advertising claims

>on their website, and in some

>>respects it is simply not accurate.

>>

>>As for tourniquets, the push for the

>past several years has been to

>>use them far more liberally than in the

>past. This comes from, I

>>believe, the CCC course and the data

>related in it from Viet Nam about

>>the number of lost lives due to

>uncontrolled bleeding.

>>

>>Best,

>>Larry

>>

>> bleed control

>>

><mailto:%40>

>>

>> > Hi All.

>> >

>> > A couple of years ago I did a lot of

>research into Quick Clot, and

>> > the message was that it was being

>over-hyped. Reports of it

>> > blowing in eyes, and cooking tissues

>etc, led to it being I think

>> > banned by US Spec Ops, although

>still issued to general forces.

>> > New advertising states that it is

>now a lot less exothermic and

>> > comes in pads to stop it blowing

>around, and is now issued to ALL

>> > US forces. Is this correct?

>> >

>> > Also I have seen several references

>to the 'new US tourniquet

>> > guidelines' As I teach in the UK,

>where TQs are frowned upon

>> > outside military use, can anyone

>direct me to where I can find

>> > details and supporting research of

>these new guidelines please.

>> >

>> >

>> > Have a peaceful Christmas, even if

>you don't celebrate it.

>> >

>> > Nigel Smee

>> > Mediact Ltd.

>> > UK

>

>_________________________________________

>_________________

>Get live scores and news about your

>team: Add the Live.com Football Page

>

>www.live.com/?addtemplate=football & icid=T

>001MSN30A0701

>

> Buxton,EMT-T,Nremt-I,USN

>Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class

>DHS/FEMA/NDMS/DMAT MA-1 BOSTON- SAFETY OFFICER

>C:(603)-396-8235

>H:(603)-210-1671

>P:(603)-221-1091

>sailorboysmb@...

<mailto:sailorboysmb%40>

MEDICINA BONA LOCIS MALIS

[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

This message and any attached files may contain

information that is confidential and/or subject of

legal privilege intended only for use by the

intended recipient. If you are not the intended

recipient or the person responsible for delivering

the message to the intended recipient, be advised

that you have received this message in error and

that any dissemination, copying or use of this

message or attachment is strictly forbidden, as is

the disclosure of the information therein. If you

have received this message in error please notify

the sender immediately and delete the message.

[Non-text portions of this message have been

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Member Information:

List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@...

Editor: Ross Boardman

Editor@...

ALL list admin messages (subscriptions &

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Post message: egroups

Please visit our website

http://www.remotemedics.co.uk

Regards

The Remote Medics Team

[Guest guest]

Mitch

The

BARTS includes this bit it did not in it's earlier incarnation , I have

been told (not done it yet as I can't get on one) I understand it is now a

'team medic' course rather than BATLS & BARTS.

On the PHEC course I did recently it was mentioned that it looked like being

included in that area in the future.

Rod

bleed control

>>>

>><mailto:%40>

>>>

>>> > Hi All.

>>> >

>>> > A couple of years ago I did a lot of

>>research into Quick Clot, and

>>> > the message was that it was being

>>over-hyped. Reports of it

>>> > blowing in eyes, and cooking tissues

>>etc, led to it being I think

>>> > banned by US Spec Ops, although

>>still issued to general forces.

>>> > New advertising states that it is

>>now a lot less exothermic and

>>> > comes in pads to stop it blowing

>>around, and is now issued to ALL

>>> > US forces. Is this correct?

>>> >

>>> > Also I have seen several references

>>to the 'new US tourniquet

>>> > guidelines' As I teach in the UK,

>>where TQs are frowned upon

>>> > outside military use, can anyone

>>direct me to where I can find

>>> > details and supporting research of

>>these new guidelines please.

>>> >

>>> >

>>> > Have a peaceful Christmas, even if

>>you don't celebrate it.

>>> >

>>> > Nigel Smee

>>> > Mediact Ltd.

>>> > UK

>>

>>_________________________________________

>>_________________

>>Get live scores and news about your

>>team: Add the Live.com Football Page

>>

>>www.live.com/?addtemplate=football & icid=T

>>001MSN30A0701

>>

>> Buxton,EMT-T,Nremt-I,USN

>>Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class

>>DHS/FEMA/NDMS/DMAT MA-1 BOSTON- SAFETY OFFICER

>>C:(603)-396-8235

>>H:(603)-210-1671

>>P:(603)-221-1091

>>sailorboysmb@...

> <mailto:sailorboysmb%40>

>

> MEDICINA BONA LOCIS MALIS

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

> This message and any attached files may contain

> information that is confidential and/or subject of

> legal privilege intended only for use by the

> intended recipient. If you are not the intended

> recipient or the person responsible for delivering

> the message to the intended recipient, be advised

> that you have received this message in error and

> that any dissemination, copying or use of this

> message or attachment is strictly forbidden, as is

> the disclosure of the information therein. If you

> have received this message in error please notify

> the sender immediately and delete the message.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

> Member Information:

>

> List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@...

> Editor: Ross Boardman

> Editor@...

>

> ALL list admin messages (subscriptions &

> unsubscriptions) should be sent to the list owner.

>

> Post message: egroups

>

> Please visit our website

> http://www.remotemedics.co.uk

>

> Regards

>

> The Remote Medics Team

>

[Guest guest]

Ross,

I think the paper you’re referring to is the one below ..

ABC to <C>ABC: redefining the military trauma paradigm

T J Hodgetts, P F Mahoney, M Q and M Byers

The full reference is ..

Emergency Medicine Journal 2006;23:745-746; doi:10.1136/emj.2006.039610

And the weblink ..

http://emj.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/23/10/745?maxtoshow= & HITS=10 & hits=10 &

RESULTFORMAT= & fulltext=paradigm & andorexactfulltext=and & searchid=1 & FIRSTINDEX

=0 & sortspec=relevance & resourcetype=HWCIT

Hope that helps,

________________________________________

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Ross Boardman

Sent: 22 December 2006 10:27

Subject: RE: bleed control

Jim,

There was a paper recently, but can't remember

where, that pointed very closely at DR, major

blood loss then ABCDE. One of the authors was

Professor Colonel Tim Hodgetts from the UK.

Ross

> Re: bleed control

>>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:47:40 -0500

>>

>>Hi Nigel,

>>

>>Quik Clot certainly has gained a lot of

>attention, hasn't it?

>>

>>I recall when it first hit the market

>it was in powder form. Recently

>>I've seen it in a more granulated form,

>I'm told to reduce the chance

>>of it being blown around in the medic's

>face and other unwanted

>>areas. I have heard about impregnated

>pads but have not seen them.

>>As for the exothermic reaction - I used

>the stuff several weeks ago in

>>a class, and it will still boil small

>amounts of water. Pretty hot

>>stuff!

>>

>>As for 'all US forces' carrying it, no.

>How many units are using it

>>will likely never be known as a medic's

>inventory can and often does

>>vary from unit-to-unit. Even within the

>same service there is

>>variance; one Army infantry unit, for

>instance, will carry certain

>>medical materials that another may not.

>Hell, I know some spec ops

>>units that are still jumping in with

>MAST pants in their ruck, while

>>the rest of the world has mostly left

>these things in storage. Quik

>>Clot is controversial enough that there

>is a great deal of variance.

>>

>>While I cannot speak to the entire US

>forces, I know that - generally

>>speaking - US Air Force PJs and Navy

>SEALs do not carry it. I am

>>involved in their ongoing training and

>have not met one in the past 8-

>>9 years that says it's in his unit's

>stock. I have heard that Navy

>>Corpsmen used it quite a bit, and the

>Army far less so. I have also

>>seen the company's advertising claims

>on their website, and in some

>>respects it is simply not accurate.

>>

>>As for tourniquets, the push for the

>past several years has been to

>>use them far more liberally than in the

>past. This comes from, I

>>believe, the CCC course and the data

>related in it from Viet Nam about

>>the number of lost lives due to

>uncontrolled bleeding.

>>

>>Best,

>>Larry

>>

>> bleed control

>>

><mailto:%40>

>>

>> > Hi All.

>> >

>> > A couple of years ago I did a lot of

>research into Quick Clot, and

>> > the message was that it was being

>over-hyped. Reports of it

>> > blowing in eyes, and cooking tissues

>etc, led to it being I think

>> > banned by US Spec Ops, although

>still issued to general forces.

>> > New advertising states that it is

>now a lot less exothermic and

>> > comes in pads to stop it blowing

>around, and is now issued to ALL

>> > US forces. Is this correct?

>> >

>> > Also I have seen several references

>to the 'new US tourniquet

>> > guidelines' As I teach in the UK,

>where TQs are frowned upon

>> > outside military use, can anyone

>direct me to where I can find

>> > details and supporting research of

>these new guidelines please.

>> >

>> >

>> > Have a peaceful Christmas, even if

>you don't celebrate it.

>> >

>> > Nigel Smee

>> > Mediact Ltd.

>> > UK

>

>_________________________________________

>_________________

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MEDICINA BONA LOCIS MALIS

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[Guest guest]

The BATLS & BARTS course has been replaced by 'New BATLS' which now uses the

C-ABC with the initial C standing for Catastrophic Haemorrhage, the students are

expected to identify and treat life threatening bleeds in trauma patients at the

beginning of the initial assessment.

The new Army Team Medics course is adopting the same C-ABC approach to trauma

patients.

The teaching is currently the C.A.T. tourniquet but RCDM an conjunction with

OEMS in the USA are constantly looking for better kit.

I trust this clarifies it

Steve Parmenter

bleed control

>>>

>><mailto:%40>

>>>

>>> > Hi All.

>>> >

>>> > A couple of years ago I did a lot of

>>research into Quick Clot, and

>>> > the message was that it was being

>>over-hyped. Reports of it

>>> > blowing in eyes, and cooking tissues

>>etc, led to it being I think

>>> > banned by US Spec Ops, although

>>still issued to general forces.

>>> > New advertising states that it is

>>now a lot less exothermic and

>>> > comes in pads to stop it blowing

>>around, and is now issued to ALL

>>> > US forces. Is this correct?

>>> >

>>> > Also I have seen several references

>>to the 'new US tourniquet

>>> > guidelines' As I teach in the UK,

>>where TQs are frowned upon

>>> > outside military use, can anyone

>>direct me to where I can find

>>> > details and supporting research of

>>these new guidelines please.

>>> >

>>> >

>>> > Have a peaceful Christmas, even if

>>you don't celebrate it.

>>> >

>>> > Nigel Smee

>>> > Mediact Ltd.

>>> > UK

>>

>>_________________________________________

>>_________________

>>Get live scores and news about your

>>team: Add the Live.com Football Page

>>

>>www.live.com/?addtemplate=football & icid=T

>>001MSN30A0701

>>

>> Buxton,EMT-T,Nremt-I,USN

>>Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class

>>DHS/FEMA/NDMS/DMAT MA-1 BOSTON- SAFETY OFFICER

>>C:(603)-396-8235

>>H:(603)-210-1671

>>P:(603)-221-1091

>>sailorboysmb@...

> <mailto:sailorboysmb%40>

>

> MEDICINA BONA LOCIS MALIS

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

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>

[Guest guest]

Mitch,

I think Ross's article is covered in a separate email to the list and

searching EMJ for 'paradigm' brings it up. Locally (Mersey and Cheshire

Ambulance Service), both Technicians and Paramedics are already taught the

DR-CABC approach (danger..response..catastrophic

haemorrhage..airway..breathing..circulation). It becomes a little more

difficult (for new and trainee paramedic staff alike) to follow then we also

add C-spine checks and eventually end up with DRCACBC !

There is a similar discussion regarding TQs ongoing on a first aid site with

people vehemently on both sides of the coin. I think in the UK, the tide is

slowly turning toward proper use by trained individuals as people realise

the evidence has been there for some time, but never reviewed by us civilian

providers. I am also aware that a small number of Ambulance Trusts carry TQs

as standard kit on frontline vehicles.

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of

Sent: 22 December 2006 11:13

Subject: RE: bleed control

All,

I remember reading something recently (Unusual for me I know) as well as

Ross about the DR {Major Bleeds} ABCDE but i cant remember where it was or

who wrote it, and if my bad memory serves this one time I think it was also

on a BARTS course I did in the Army some 8-9 years ago.

There is an argument for both Major bleeds first and Airway first.

Are there any Paramedics (NHS or not) on the list who would like to add a

point?

Mitch

Ross Boardman <ross.boardman@ <mailto:ross.boardman%40rcsed.ac.uk>

rcsed.ac.uk> wrote:

Jim,

There was a paper recently, but can't remember

where, that pointed very closely at DR, major

blood loss then ABCDE. One of the authors was

Professor Colonel Tim Hodgetts from the UK.

Ross

> Re: bleed control

>>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:47:40 -0500

>>

>>Hi Nigel,

>>

>>Quik Clot certainly has gained a lot of

>attention, hasn't it?

>>

>>I recall when it first hit the market

>it was in powder form. Recently

>>I've seen it in a more granulated form,

>I'm told to reduce the chance

>>of it being blown around in the medic's

>face and other unwanted

>>areas. I have heard about impregnated

>pads but have not seen them.

>>As for the exothermic reaction - I used

>the stuff several weeks ago in

>>a class, and it will still boil small

>amounts of water. Pretty hot

>>stuff!

>>

>>As for 'all US forces' carrying it, no.

>How many units are using it

>>will likely never be known as a medic's

>inventory can and often does

>>vary from unit-to-unit. Even within the

>same service there is

>>variance; one Army infantry unit, for

>instance, will carry certain

>>medical materials that another may not.

>Hell, I know some spec ops

>>units that are still jumping in with

>MAST pants in their ruck, while

>>the rest of the world has mostly left

>these things in storage. Quik

>>Clot is controversial enough that there

>is a great deal of variance.

>>

>>While I cannot speak to the entire US

>forces, I know that - generally

>>speaking - US Air Force PJs and Navy

>SEALs do not carry it. I am

>>involved in their ongoing training and

>have not met one in the past 8-

>>9 years that says it's in his unit's

>stock. I have heard that Navy

>>Corpsmen used it quite a bit, and the

>Army far less so. I have also

>>seen the company's advertising claims

>on their website, and in some

>>respects it is simply not accurate.

>>

>>As for tourniquets, the push for the

>past several years has been to

>>use them far more liberally than in the

>past. This comes from, I

>>believe, the CCC course and the data

>related in it from Viet Nam about

>>the number of lost lives due to

>uncontrolled bleeding.

>>

>>Best,

>>Larry

>>

>> bleed control

>> <mailto:%40>

><mailto:%40>

>>

>> > Hi All.

>> >

>> > A couple of years ago I did a lot of

>research into Quick Clot, and

>> > the message was that it was being

>over-hyped. Reports of it

>> > blowing in eyes, and cooking tissues

>etc, led to it being I think

>> > banned by US Spec Ops, although

>still issued to general forces.

>> > New advertising states that it is

>now a lot less exothermic and

>> > comes in pads to stop it blowing

>around, and is now issued to ALL

>> > US forces. Is this correct?

>> >

>> > Also I have seen several references

>to the 'new US tourniquet

>> > guidelines' As I teach in the UK,

>where TQs are frowned upon

>> > outside military use, can anyone

>direct me to where I can find

>> > details and supporting research of

>these new guidelines please.

>> >

>> >

>> > Have a peaceful Christmas, even if

>you don't celebrate it.

>> >

>> > Nigel Smee

>> > Mediact Ltd.

>> > UK

>

>_________________________________________

>_________________

>Get live scores and news about your

>team: Add the Live.com Football Page

>

>www.live.com/?addtemplate=football & icid=T

>001MSN30A0701

>

> Buxton,EMT-T,Nremt-I,USN

>Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class

>DHS/FEMA/NDMS/DMAT MA-1 BOSTON- SAFETY OFFICER

>C:(603)-396-8235

>H:(603)-210-1671

>P:(603)-221-1091

>sailorboysmb@ <mailto:sailorboysmb%40>

<mailto:sailorboysmb%40>

MEDICINA BONA LOCIS MALIS

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The Remote Medics Team

[Guest guest]

Hello,

My name is Wayne Havenaar an Australian Paramedic working privately, ex

Ambulance Service of New South Wales (ASNSW) Special Casualty Access Team

and intensive Care Paramedic Educator, with many years experience In the

Australian Army Reserve as a Patrol Medic in 1 CDO Coy and a medic in 1st

Parachute Surgical Team.

I am new to the site but I have been lurking for a while, this is my first

entry.

In the ASNSW protocols, arresting life threatening haemorrhage ranks highly

in the basic protocol for emergency care. It is recognised that experienced

switched on operators are able to and can recognize an immediate life

threatening haemorrhage i.e. one on the extreme end of the sliding scale or

spectrum of haemorrhage, one that will most certainly cause cardiac arrest

very very soon if not treated first. Also projecting that knowing that if

the patient is actively bleeding they must have a heart beat and thus

circulation

And even if the patient has an occluded airway the time taken to manage that

airway will or suspected will compromise the patient more so than the

increased hypoxia. Haemorrhage control should be the most effective able to

be done with minimal time taken to do it, so that airway management can be

started.

Taken this situation is rare, and experienced operators are cleaver at

assessing ABC extremely quickly, much more so than inexperienced first

aider/first responder types, so an experience person would probably clear

and protect the airway just enough and quickly without much compromise to

the loss of blood or may even do both at the same time. Where less

experienced may waist time on airway.

It's as usual, an on the day judgment call, but it has been highlighted in

procedures, guidelines or protocols to remind us that it may be necessary to

do it before ABC .

As I said rare situations, maybe it's more applicable in military fire

zones, or civilan areas where shootings/ stabbings are frequent, but its

only a standard and guideline.

I expect some people may confuse an arterial bleed with immediate life

threatening, sometimes it would be no doubt about that, but it can also non

life threatening if treated appropriately or quickly or only life

threatening after some time of bleading. Not all haemorrhage and not all

Arterial bleeding is an immediate threat to life.

Hope this helps.

Wayne

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of

Sent: Friday, 22 December 2006 10:13 PM

Subject: RE: bleed control

All,

I remember reading something recently (Unusual for me I know) as well as

Ross about the DR {Major Bleeds} ABCDE but i cant remember where it was or

who wrote it, and if my bad memory serves this one time I think it was also

on a BARTS course I did in the Army some 8-9 years ago.

There is an argument for both Major bleeds first and Airway first.

Are there any Paramedics (NHS or not) on the list who would like to add a

point?

Mitch

Ross Boardman <ross.boardman@ <mailto:ross.boardman%40rcsed.ac.uk>

rcsed.ac.uk> wrote:

Jim,

There was a paper recently, but can't remember

where, that pointed very closely at DR, major

blood loss then ABCDE. One of the authors was

Professor Colonel Tim Hodgetts from the UK.

Ross

> Re: bleed control

>>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:47:40 -0500

>>

>>Hi Nigel,

>>

>>Quik Clot certainly has gained a lot of

>attention, hasn't it?

>>

>>I recall when it first hit the market

>it was in powder form. Recently

>>I've seen it in a more granulated form,

>I'm told to reduce the chance

>>of it being blown around in the medic's

>face and other unwanted

>>areas. I have heard about impregnated

>pads but have not seen them.

>>As for the exothermic reaction - I used

>the stuff several weeks ago in

>>a class, and it will still boil small

>amounts of water. Pretty hot

>>stuff!

>>

>>As for 'all US forces' carrying it, no.

>How many units are using it

>>will likely never be known as a medic's

>inventory can and often does

>>vary from unit-to-unit. Even within the

>same service there is

>>variance; one Army infantry unit, for

>instance, will carry certain

>>medical materials that another may not.

>Hell, I know some spec ops

>>units that are still jumping in with

>MAST pants in their ruck, while

>>the rest of the world has mostly left

>these things in storage. Quik

>>Clot is controversial enough that there

>is a great deal of variance.

>>

>>While I cannot speak to the entire US

>forces, I know that - generally

>>speaking - US Air Force PJs and Navy

>SEALs do not carry it. I am

>>involved in their ongoing training and

>have not met one in the past 8-

>>9 years that says it's in his unit's

>stock. I have heard that Navy

>>Corpsmen used it quite a bit, and the

>Army far less so. I have also

>>seen the company's advertising claims

>on their website, and in some

>>respects it is simply not accurate.

>>

>>As for tourniquets, the push for the

>past several years has been to

>>use them far more liberally than in the

>past. This comes from, I

>>believe, the CCC course and the data

>related in it from Viet Nam about

>>the number of lost lives due to

>uncontrolled bleeding.

>>

>>Best,

>>Larry

>>

>> bleed control

>> <mailto:%40>

><mailto:%40>

>>

>> > Hi All.

>> >

>> > A couple of years ago I did a lot of

>research into Quick Clot, and

>> > the message was that it was being

>over-hyped. Reports of it

>> > blowing in eyes, and cooking tissues

>etc, led to it being I think

>> > banned by US Spec Ops, although

>still issued to general forces.

>> > New advertising states that it is

>now a lot less exothermic and

>> > comes in pads to stop it blowing

>around, and is now issued to ALL

>> > US forces. Is this correct?

>> >

>> > Also I have seen several references

>to the 'new US tourniquet

>> > guidelines' As I teach in the UK,

>where TQs are frowned upon

>> > outside military use, can anyone

>direct me to where I can find

>> > details and supporting research of

>these new guidelines please.

>> >

>> >

>> > Have a peaceful Christmas, even if

>you don't celebrate it.

>> >

>> > Nigel Smee

>> > Mediact Ltd.

>> > UK

>

>_________________________________________

>_________________

>Get live scores and news about your

>team: Add the Live.com Football Page

>

>www.live.com/?addtemplate=football & icid=T

>001MSN30A0701

>

> Buxton,EMT-T,Nremt-I,USN

>Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class

>DHS/FEMA/NDMS/DMAT MA-1 BOSTON- SAFETY OFFICER

>C:(603)-396-8235

>H:(603)-210-1671

>P:(603)-221-1091

>sailorboysmb@ <mailto:sailorboysmb%40>

<mailto:sailorboysmb%40>

MEDICINA BONA LOCIS MALIS

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[Guest guest]

Hi all,

Its been a while but perhaps now is a good time to pitch into this

thread.

Firstly some history.

The study of death and injury on the battlefield has been going on

for many years. Since the advent of modern munitions (generally

accepted to be about the time of the American Civil War) there have

been numerous observations and studies about combat injury and death.

One of the biggest information sources has been the Wound Data &

Munitions Effectiveness Team archive held at the Casualty Care

Research Centre in Washington DC. Subsequent archives and research

has confirmed that haemorrhage continues to account for over half of

all deaths on a battlefield. Of these deaths, just over 20% involve

extremities. Overall, and without boring the pants off everyone, what

this means is that their are a lot of potentially unnecessary deaths

due to bleeding out from arms and legs. It also emerges from other

studies that airway obstruction is quite a rarity in this arena.

This means that the control of bleeding severe (arterial) bleeding

from extremities is the single skill set that can be taught to all

soldiers on a battlefield that may have a significant effect on

mortality.

M.A.R.C.H. was born out of the requirement for soldiers to be taught

the medical and first aid skills that would allow them to deal with

the particular mechanisms and causes of death that traditionally

appear on a battlefield. There are some particularly good papers that

discuss this. See Tactical Combat Casualty Care in Special Operations

by Captain , Col Hagmann and Ensign in

Journal of Military Medicine 161, Suppl:3, 1996.

While this precedes the advent of M.A.R.C.H. as a primary survey

mneumonic the rationale for the use of the tourniquet is clear.

Additionally, there is often a delay between the time of injury and

the discovery by others that a comrade has been wounded due to

the 'fog of war'. This placed an implied onus on the individual to be

able to self treat to save their own lives. This then has been the

spur that has driven the development of the modern battlefield

tourniquet. Since then we have the SAT, the MAT, the CAT and of

course, last but not least...the TWAT!

The SAT is now outdated and worked on a cantelever type system. While

at the time of introduction it was a huge improvement over the Samway

anchor (an instrument of the devil!), it suffered because it could

not be fine tuned. The CAT was an imporvement in that it operates on

a windlass basis. It is currently the tourniquet of choice in HM

Forces. This tourniquet is light, easy to apply and packs neatly into

a small space, it suffers slightly from the need to rotate the handle

180 degrees to apply tension. This is more acute the tighter it is

applied. The MAT is a mechanical tension device that is similar to a

windlass in operation. This is a good tourniquet in the main in that

it allows very precise tension to be applied, however it cannot be

eaasily released in the same way. The TWAT, is simply a broadfold

triangular device and a plywood board that was common with the US SF

at Joint Special Operations Medical Training Centre before the advent

of any of the above devices. This for me is a simple device, easily

constructed and easy to apply tension and release tension. The broad

band does not redily damage tissue, but it is easy to get wrong.

There is currently a new tourniquet prototype that has been developed

and 12 have been placed within the US military for evaluation. This

is a self applied device that works similar to the TWAT and is very

precise. Time will tell if it is adequate.

Inherently, all tourniquets have the potential to be dangerous. That

sad fact is that patients can loose limbs as a consequence of a

poorly applied tourniquet device. There used to be a slogan some

years ago the the BRitish Army adopted for its Aid to Save

campaign, 'It only takes a minute to bleed to death'. While this may

have been true for a carotid artery bleed it probably take a few

minutes longer for a bleed to say, the femoral artery. However it is

still not a long time. I once questioned a vascular surgeon and he

estimated that in a health adult it may take between 5 to 10 minutes.

So, in the use of the tourniquet it is better to keep the blood in

the tubes using a TQ device, then manage the wound itself with an

effective compression dressing. The tourniquet turns off the tap. In

the context of combat casualty care, attention is then turned to

managing the wound or not, depending on the situation.....there is a

further discussion here.

Enter, to complicate things, haemostatic dressings. These are

becoming popular are they not....I am of course referring to Quik

Clot, Haemcon, and the new one to enter the fray, Celox. All work in

differnt ways, all designed to stop bleeding from an arterial wound.

However they have been subject to real problems....all of which are

due to lack of appropriate training and a belief by some that these

are the best thing since sliced bread and they will stop any

bleeding. Again there is much I could say about these products, I and

Exmed have used them (with the exception of Celox, which is awaiting

CE marking in the UK, but has FDA approval in the US) many times both

operationally and in training. We have never failed to stop a bleed

with these products. But the potential for lay people to get it wrong

and develop a false belief in these is huge.

It is true that Quik Clot was removed from AFghanistan soon after it

was first introduced. It was removed mainly because it was issued to

the troops without effective training. The US Marines now do

mandatory training on these products before deploying into an

operational theatre. The manufacturers have been guilty of perhaps

misleading people on these products. There is to date no effective

training model other than live tissue. Organisations, companies have

purchased these products without training and have issued them to

operators in the mistaken belief that they always will stop bleeding.

Even the training video commonly used to sell this stuff has been

edited subtley to make one think that it is effective. If one reads

the data that accompanies this and watches the video, one can clearly

see an edit between the moment when the artery and vein are severed

and the introduction of the product. There is a delay here of approx

5 minutes before the product is introduced.

There is with this product an exothermic reaction. It is intense and

it is brief....to be honest I dont think this is really a

consideration if the product does what its supposed to do.

Celox is a new emerging product within the UK and does not have this

reaction, so may well make QC redundant if it is found to be equally

as effective. Time will tell.

Another important point for these haemostatic agents is that they

need to be applied to the point of bleeding. If it doesnt get there

it can hardly do its job. This is a real problem in high pressure

bleeding through a small wound, perhaps a GSW. In this case the

average medic will be helpless. It takes a brave and bold person

then, to take a scalpel and incise down to the bleeding point.

Most wounds to the extremity that are along the length of the limb,

where there is room to apply a tourniquet can be managed with a tried

and tested combination of techniques that includes selection from

tourniquet, pressure point, direct pressure, enhanced pressure,

packing, elevation etc. Perhaps the best use for these other products

is for junctional trauma and areas where it is difficult or

impossible to apply a tourniquet or effective pressure e.g. inguenal

groove for example.

In summary, MARCH was born out of requirement for those involved in

combat or tactical operations to consider haemorrhage as a leading

cause of death of which 20% is potentially preventable through

effective haemorrhage control techniques. While Col Hodgetts may have

articulated MARCH, its origins are elsewhere. Haemostatic products

have a role to play, but this is still being defined by many

including HM Forces, US Marines, US Army etc. Each currently has its

own haemorrhage control cascade protocol and are being tested for

effectivelness. Whatever protocol one observes, it is vital that

those involved in military operations or private security operations

are trained and practiced in the use of all the skills in the

haemorrhage control cascade protocol adopted.

Many regards, and I wish you all the best for Christmas and hope that

you have a good slide into 2007.

Dave Connell

Exmed UK Ltd

>

> Hi All.

>

> A couple of years ago I did a lot of research into Quick Clot, and

the message was that it was being over-hyped. Reports of it blowing

in eyes, and cooking tissues etc, led to it being I think banned by

US Spec Ops, although still issued to general forces.

> New advertising states that it is now a lot less exothermic and

comes in pads to stop it blowing around, and is now issued to ALL US

forces. Is this correct?

>

> Also I have seen several references to the 'new US tourniquet

guidelines' As I teach in the UK, where TQs are frowned upon outside

military use, can anyone direct me to where I can find details and

supporting research of these new guidelines please.

>

>

> Have a peaceful Christmas, even if you don't celebrate it.

>

> Nigel Smee

> Mediact Ltd.

> UK

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Wayne,

Nice first post.

Welcome.

Gösta

bleed control

>> <mailto:%40>

><mailto:%40>

>>

>> > Hi All.

>> >

>> > A couple of years ago I did a lot of

>research into Quick Clot, and

>> > the message was that it was being

>over-hyped. Reports of it

>> > blowing in eyes, and cooking tissues

>etc, led to it being I think

>> > banned by US Spec Ops, although

>still issued to general forces.

>> > New advertising states that it is

>now a lot less exothermic and

>> > comes in pads to stop it blowing

>around, and is now issued to ALL

>> > US forces. Is this correct?

>> >

>> > Also I have seen several references

>to the 'new US tourniquet

>> > guidelines' As I teach in the UK,

>where TQs are frowned upon

>> > outside military use, can anyone

>direct me to where I can find

>> > details and supporting research of

>these new guidelines please.

>> >

>> >

>> > Have a peaceful Christmas, even if

>you don't celebrate it.

>> >

>> > Nigel Smee

>> > Mediact Ltd.

>> > UK

>

>_________________________________________

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> Buxton,EMT-T,Nremt-I,USN

>Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class

>DHS/FEMA/NDMS/DMAT MA-1 BOSTON- SAFETY OFFICER

>C:(603)-396-8235

>H:(603)-210-1671

>P:(603)-221-1091

>sailorboysmb@ <mailto:sailorboysmb%40>

<mailto:sailorboysmb%40>

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[Guest guest]

Now that's what I subscribe to this site for.

The voice of experience with research to back it.

An excellent read.

Well done Dave!

Regards

> >

> > Hi All.

> >

> > A couple of years ago I did a lot of research into Quick Clot,

and

> the message was that it was being over-hyped. Reports of it blowing

> in eyes, and cooking tissues etc, led to it being I think banned by

> US Spec Ops, although still issued to general forces.

> > New advertising states that it is now a lot less exothermic and

> comes in pads to stop it blowing around, and is now issued to ALL

US

> forces. Is this correct?

> >

> > Also I have seen several references to the 'new US tourniquet

> guidelines' As I teach in the UK, where TQs are frowned upon

outside

> military use, can anyone direct me to where I can find details and

> supporting research of these new guidelines please.

> >

> >

> > Have a peaceful Christmas, even if you don't celebrate it.

> >

> > Nigel Smee

> > Mediact Ltd.

> > UK

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

Please be careful here. While OEMS is a good program, but it's not

" the US military live tissue lab " . It is only one of several programs

out there that does what it does.

LT

Buxton wrote:

> TQ's have been a first line of care for combat casualty care in the field.

OEMS (operational and emergency medical skills course) which is the US military

live tissue lab. They teach a mneumonic- MARCH= Major bleeding is first, then

airway, respirations, circulation and head inj./ hypothermia. I have a site

dedicated to this type of medicine www.NH-TEMS.com

>

> shawn

>

> thomas greaber <tom5255@...> wrote:

> On the subject of tourniquets, I remenber in the dark ages when I

was first

> trained that they were essentialy a no no. but in light of recent reports

> and a rumored study which I have not been able to confirm ,I am willing to

> bet they will make a big come back in training. The story running around

> Iraq and Afghanl land as well as a couple of news reports I read and saw,

> " currently 90 % " of the battle fataliies in both countries were due to blood

> loss from extremies. If this true and personnel expereince points in the

> direction a tourniquet is the way to go

>

> Cheers

>

> Tom G

>

>> From: ltorrey@...

>> Reply-

>>

>> Subject: Re: bleed control

>> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:47:40 -0500

>>

>> Hi Nigel,

>>

>> Quik Clot certainly has gained a lot of attention, hasn't it?

>>

>> I recall when it first hit the market it was in powder form. Recently

>> I've seen it in a more granulated form, I'm told to reduce the chance

>> of it being blown around in the medic's face and other unwanted

>> areas. I have heard about impregnated pads but have not seen them.

>> As for the exothermic reaction - I used the stuff several weeks ago in

>> a class, and it will still boil small amounts of water. Pretty hot

>> stuff!

>>

>> As for 'all US forces' carrying it, no. How many units are using it

>> will likely never be known as a medic's inventory can and often does

>> vary from unit-to-unit. Even within the same service there is

>> variance; one Army infantry unit, for instance, will carry certain

>> medical materials that another may not. Hell, I know some spec ops

>> units that are still jumping in with MAST pants in their ruck, while

>> the rest of the world has mostly left these things in storage. Quik

>> Clot is controversial enough that there is a great deal of variance.

>>

>> While I cannot speak to the entire US forces, I know that - generally

>> speaking - US Air Force PJs and Navy SEALs do not carry it. I am

>> involved in their ongoing training and have not met one in the past 8-

>> 9 years that says it's in his unit's stock. I have heard that Navy

>> Corpsmen used it quite a bit, and the Army far less so. I have also

>> seen the company's advertising claims on their website, and in some

>> respects it is simply not accurate.

>>

>> As for tourniquets, the push for the past several years has been to

>> use them far more liberally than in the past. This comes from, I

>> believe, the CCC course and the data related in it from Viet Nam about

>> the number of lost lives due to uncontrolled bleeding.

>>

>> Best,

>> Larry

>>

>> bleed control

>>

>>

>>> Hi All.

>>>

>>> A couple of years ago I did a lot of research into Quick Clot, and

>>> the message was that it was being over-hyped. Reports of it

>>> blowing in eyes, and cooking tissues etc, led to it being I think

>>> banned by US Spec Ops, although still issued to general forces.

>>> New advertising states that it is now a lot less exothermic and

>>> comes in pads to stop it blowing around, and is now issued to ALL

>>> US forces. Is this correct?

>>>

>>> Also I have seen several references to the 'new US tourniquet

>>> guidelines' As I teach in the UK, where TQs are frowned upon

>>> outside military use, can anyone direct me to where I can find

>>> details and supporting research of these new guidelines please.

>>>

>>>

>>> Have a peaceful Christmas, even if you don't celebrate it.

>>>

>>> Nigel Smee

>>> Mediact Ltd.

>>> UK

>

> __________________________________________________________

> Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page

> www.live.com/?addtemplate=football & icid=T001MSN30A0701

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Buxton,EMT-T,Nremt-I,USN

> Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class

> DHS/FEMA/NDMS/DMAT MA-1 BOSTON- SAFETY OFFICER

> C:(603)-396-8235

> H:(603)-210-1671

> P:(603)-221-1091

> sailorboysmb@...

>

> MEDICINA BONA LOCIS MALIS

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The C.A.T. - Combat Application Tourniquet™ - is currently popular

among many of the US forces.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2006/06/mil-060622-arnews03.\

htm

http://www.medgadget.com/archives/2005/03/army_develops_i.html

LT

Wilf Mackie wrote:

> Tom et all:

>

> A friend of mine is making a new product, " Kroon " well improved at least

over the old style " T " .

> It is called SOF Tactical Tourniquet http://www.zulunine.com/ or

http://www.dropzonetactical.com/ I hope these links work.

>

> The impudis to make a better " mousetrap " came from a story of a Canuckistanian

Medic that got " blowd up " with a roadside IED.

> He had to improvise very quickly with standard battle dressing while he was

" treating himself " (a member of PPCLI) .

>

> As the types of mechanism(s) of injuries change with the times, the potential

for difficult to control exsanginating haemorrhage also affects the oilpatch and

woodland firefighters and the forestry industry. I carry one of these for

degloving injuries and chainsaw 'oops " and entrapped MVC patients, it certianly

beats " manually holding direct pressure " when the hose monkeys are extricating.

>

> Also would like to wish ALL a Peaceful Holiday Season.

> No matter what you may call the " Great Spirit " may he/she watch over my

friends.

>

> cheers

>

> Wilf

>

>

> Re: bleed control

>

>

> .

>

>

>