Guest guest Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 I had an opportunity to speak with Director of the NYS Immunizations Program in Albany and found him to be most helpful and honest about exemptions too. I hope you get a response and please share when you do.........Anita Austin <webinfusion@...> wrote: A quick update on this. I emailed Mass.Citizens for Vaccination Choice and my email was forwarded to the medical director of the immunization program at the MA Dept. of Public Health, who wrote this: >>I had to make some inquiries about this issue before responding. Medical and religious exemptions only apply to immunization requirements for child care, school or college. The MDPH immunization program does not have any regulations or policies with respect to the administration of immune globulin (I am guessing that this child received tetanus immune globulin) for the purposes of emergency treatment. We generally would regard this as a matter between the patient and physician and beyond the bounds of our program. It is possible that the Board of Registration in Medicine has general standards for obtaining consent in an emergency, but you would have to contact the Board for a definitive answer. While the last sentence allows some room, I think the note above makes reasonably clear that the ER MD likely had no cause to threaten you as he apparently did. If you have a phone number and the doctor's name, along with what might be an affadivit of what was said, I'd be willing to make a call to ascertain the motivation and presumed regulations regarding ER vaccination.<< So I replied with the info he requested. I have not heard back, and don't know if I will. sorry about the weird formatting. I tried to fix it, but alas... --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 so what would happen at the ER if a parent said, " My child has a religious exemption from vaccines as per state law . . . . " Re: Re: ER visit - tetanus vac forced on our 18 month-old So glad you showed up, Anita! I know you think the same way as me on this. Lying may be easier in the short run, but is harder in the long run, and heaven forbid you lie and then are caught, then that makes you even more suspect in the eyes of CPS. I admire people who stand up for truth, such as people who are whistleblowers, who usually lose their jobs and whose families may suffer as a result of their honesty and character. If I benefit from others risking for the truth, shouldn't I also tell the truth? I admire people who have the courage to speak the truth, and I want to be one of them. -A On May 22, 2007, at 8:44 AM, Anita Durney wrote: > In order to change things as we know it, we MUST stand up for and > defend what WE know to be true. We get on a slippery slope when > trying to re-educate " the professionals', so I don't recommend > that. Only truth can bring about the necessary changes and shift in > thinking toward vaccinations. If we lie, we are surely slowing > progress in this crucial area. If enough of us speak truth, truth > will begin to be heard. Last time I checked, I still have the laws > of my state to back up my choices. How you present the truth and > the circumstances that lead one to the ER play a huge role in how > it is handled by staff. Every case is different. Just because you > don't vax your child doesn't make you immune to a call to CPS. I > think it's important to remember that. > > Anita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 I'm confused. Are you saying your doctor is advising you to withhold information because it is not the business of any ER doctor or is she advising you to outright lie to ER staff? Not judging here, just trying to understand exactly what your doctor is advising you to do in an ER situation..........Anita Sassygirl1218@... wrote: Ok, how is this for justification... Before I began my life as a liar, I spoke with my family doctor about what to say in the ER regarding vaccines. She is pretty much anti vaccine and told me that they do not need to know my childrens' vaccine history, as it would not alter the course of treatment and would open myself up to harassment. The only doctor who needs to know is her and I am better keeping myself under the radar. --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 That would depend on the circumstances and the individuals involved. It could go either way, I'm sure....Anita Rippetoe <srippetoe@...> wrote: so what would happen at the ER if a parent said, " My child has a religious exemption from vaccines as per state law . . . . " Re: Re: ER visit - tetanus vac forced on our 18 month-old So glad you showed up, Anita! I know you think the same way as me on this. Lying may be easier in the short run, but is harder in the long run, and heaven forbid you lie and then are caught, then that makes you even more suspect in the eyes of CPS. I admire people who stand up for truth, such as people who are whistleblowers, who usually lose their jobs and whose families may suffer as a result of their honesty and character. If I benefit from others risking for the truth, shouldn't I also tell the truth? I admire people who have the courage to speak the truth, and I want to be one of them. -A On May 22, 2007, at 8:44 AM, Anita Durney wrote: > In order to change things as we know it, we MUST stand up for and > defend what WE know to be true. We get on a slippery slope when > trying to re-educate " the professionals', so I don't recommend > that. Only truth can bring about the necessary changes and shift in > thinking toward vaccinations. If we lie, we are surely slowing > progress in this crucial area. If enough of us speak truth, truth > will begin to be heard. Last time I checked, I still have the laws > of my state to back up my choices. How you present the truth and > the circumstances that lead one to the ER play a huge role in how > it is handled by staff. Every case is different. Just because you > don't vax your child doesn't make you immune to a call to CPS. I > think it's important to remember that. > > Anita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 She has many patients who do not vaccinate and has had many of them harassed by ER doctors. She advises her patients to just tell them that they are up to date, as it would not alter the course of treatment either way and that the only doctor who really needs to know is her. I ---- Anita Durney <mydurney@...> wrote: > I'm confused. Are you saying your doctor is advising you to withhold information because it is not the business of any ER doctor or is she advising you to outright lie to ER staff? Not judging here, just trying to understand exactly what your doctor is advising you to do in an ER situation..........Anita > > Sassygirl1218@... wrote: Ok, how is this for justification... > > Before I began my life as a liar, I spoke with my family doctor about what to say in the ER regarding vaccines. She is pretty much anti vaccine and told me that they do not need to know my childrens' vaccine history, as it would not alter the course of treatment and would open myself up to harassment. The only doctor who needs to know is her and I am better keeping myself under the radar. > > --------------------------------- > Take the Internet to Go: Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 At 11:26 AM 5/22/2007 -0700, you wrote: >That would depend on the circumstances and the individuals involved. It could go either way, I'm sure....Anita > > Rippetoe <srippetoe@...> wrote: so what would happen at the ER if a parent said, " My child has a religious exemption from vaccines as per state law . . . . " That exemption is only related to school attendance There is no law to vaccinate in order to live, but they don't seem to realize that Sheri > > Re: Re: ER visit - tetanus vac forced on our 18 month-old > > >So glad you showed up, Anita! I know you think the same way as me on >this. Lying may be easier in the short run, but is harder in the long >run, and heaven forbid you lie and then are caught, then that makes >you even more suspect in the eyes of CPS. > >I admire people who stand up for truth, such as people who are >whistleblowers, who usually lose their jobs and whose families may >suffer as a result of their honesty and character. If I benefit from >others risking for the truth, shouldn't I also tell the truth? I >admire people who have the courage to speak the truth, and I want to >be one of them. -A > -------------------------------------------------------- Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK $$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account earthmysteriestours@... voicemail US 530-740-0561 (go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm Reality of the Diseases & Treatment - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 I do have an example I would like to share. My son Liam cut his hand deeply on an open can. It was my others son Henry's Birthday and I had a house full of family showing up so my husband and mother went to the ER wih Liam. Of course the tetanus question was asked and my husband calmly and confidently told the ER surgeon in charge of our sons case that we don't vaccinate our children; the answer was simply no. My mother (of all people) piped in and tried to get the doctor to convince my husband that a tetanus vax was necessary for Liam's safety. I kid you not when the ER surgeon told my mother he could surgically implant that newly opened can into Liam's little body and he still wouldn't be at risk for tetanus. I know it sounds too good to be true, but this is a true story I have shared with this group before. Hope this helps. Anita Rippetoe <srippetoe@...> wrote: so what would happen at the ER if a parent said, " My child has a religious exemption from vaccines as per state law . . . . " Re: Re: ER visit - tetanus vac forced on our 18 month-old So glad you showed up, Anita! I know you think the same way as me on this. Lying may be easier in the short run, but is harder in the long run, and heaven forbid you lie and then are caught, then that makes you even more suspect in the eyes of CPS. I admire people who stand up for truth, such as people who are whistleblowers, who usually lose their jobs and whose families may suffer as a result of their honesty and character. If I benefit from others risking for the truth, shouldn't I also tell the truth? I admire people who have the courage to speak the truth, and I want to be one of them. -A On May 22, 2007, at 8:44 AM, Anita Durney wrote: > In order to change things as we know it, we MUST stand up for and > defend what WE know to be true. We get on a slippery slope when > trying to re-educate " the professionals', so I don't recommend > that. Only truth can bring about the necessary changes and shift in > thinking toward vaccinations. If we lie, we are surely slowing > progress in this crucial area. If enough of us speak truth, truth > will begin to be heard. Last time I checked, I still have the laws > of my state to back up my choices. How you present the truth and > the circumstances that lead one to the ER play a huge role in how > it is handled by staff. Every case is different. Just because you > don't vax your child doesn't make you immune to a call to CPS. I > think it's important to remember that. > > Anita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 I am always one that tells ther truth in the ER even though I am scared to do so. It just sorta comes out. I guess my fear is if they think you are up to date it seems it might take them longer to figure out the problem if it were to be a vax preventable disease. Has anyone had that experience? I mean in the back of their head they would be thinking " it's not likely....because this child is vaxed. " My other concern is this. If you go into the ER like I have with cuts that need stitches, and you say you are up to date, won't they still want to do a tetanus??? Even though you say you are up to date, don't they usually say the child will need tetanus again? If thats the case, how do you get around that if you are " supposed to be ok " with vaccines? Sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 In that case, I would lie and say that they recently had a tetanus shot and that I am not comfortable with him getting another. I have heard too many ER horror stories, including the one that started this thread, to feel comfortable trusting them to respect my decision. Go ahead and say that I am taking an easy way out or lying, or whatever, but I do what I have to do to protect my children and it really sucks when your child can't breathe due to an asthma attack and you have to worry about doctors grilling you about vaccines and your choices or not taking you seriously because they think that you are one of " those " crazy people who won't vaccinate. Oh, and my doctor said that they usually don't rule out supposed " vaccine preventable " diseases, but they know that vaccines are not 100% effective. ---- Sandy Redding <srr1933@...> wrote: > I am always one that tells ther truth in the ER even though I am scared > to do so. It just sorta comes out. I guess my fear is if they think you > are up to date it seems it might take them longer to figure out the > problem if it were to be a vax preventable disease. Has anyone had that > experience? I mean in the back of their head they would be > thinking " it's not likely....because this child is vaxed. " > > My other concern is this. If you go into the ER like I have with cuts > that need stitches, and you say you are up to date, won't they still > want to do a tetanus??? Even though you say you are up to date, don't > they usually say the child will need tetanus again? If thats the case, > how do you get around that if you are " supposed to be ok " with > vaccines? > > Sandy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 >I am always one that tells ther truth in the ER even though I am scared > to do so. It just sorta comes out. I guess my fear is if they think you > are up to date it seems it might take them longer to figure out the > problem if it were to be a vax preventable disease. Has anyone had that > experience? I mean in the back of their head they would be > thinking " it's not likely....because this child is vaxed. " Yes, I have on occasion told the truth as well. When I my 10 month old had croup (although at the time it was just breathing difficulties) so I didn't want them to rule out pertussis. But really, I probably would never tell the truth again. It just isn't worth the particular hassle if you get a person on a power kick. YOu just don't want to be put into a situation where you can't leave. If you think they have one of those vaccine " preventable " diseases then tell them. Learn about the symptoms, tell them why, vaccines fail, you could still have them if you were vaccinated, they don't have to know that. Then if they still won't consider it, you are getting crappy treatment, leave and go somewhere else. L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 > > My other concern is this. If you go into the ER like I have with cuts > that need stitches, and you say you are up to date, won't they still > want to do a tetanus??? Even though you say you are up to date, don't > they usually say the child will need tetanus again? If thats the case, > how do you get around that if you are " supposed to be ok " with > vaccines? > You can always say you called there pediatrician before coming and they said that they didn't need another shot. L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 At 09:16 PM 5/22/2007 -0000, you wrote: >I am always one that tells ther truth in the ER even though I am scared >to do so. It just sorta comes out. I guess my fear is if they think you >are up to date it seems it might take them longer to figure out the >problem if it were to be a vax preventable disease. Has anyone had that >experience? I mean in the back of their head they would be >thinking " it's not likely....because this child is vaxed. " > >My other concern is this. If you go into the ER like I have with cuts >that need stitches, and you say you are up to date, won't they still >want to do a tetanus??? Even though you say you are up to date, don't >they usually say the child will need tetanus again? If thats the case, >how do you get around that if you are " supposed to be ok " with >vaccines? > >Sandy No they should not give a tetanus just because of injury. Best is to say you don't vax if you are willing to deal with the possible consequences of that statement or say they are up to date and no thanks, you will check with your own doctor Sheri > -------------------------------------------------------- Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK $$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account earthmysteriestours@... voicemail US 530-740-0561 (go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm Reality of the Diseases & Treatment - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 OR yes she was given tetanus while on holiday in some country, ie Spain (if you're in Europe or Mexico if you are in USA). Noone is going to check up on that. And since you didn't have your vax card on hand, it was never recorded. Re: Re: ER visit - tetanus vac forced on our 18 month-old At 09:16 PM 5/22/2007 -0000, you wrote: >I am always one that tells ther truth in the ER even though I am scared >to do so. It just sorta comes out. I guess my fear is if they think you >are up to date it seems it might take them longer to figure out the >problem if it were to be a vax preventable disease. Has anyone had that >experience? I mean in the back of their head they would be >thinking " it's not likely....because this child is vaxed. " > >My other concern is this. If you go into the ER like I have with cuts >that need stitches, and you say you are up to date, won't they still >want to do a tetanus??? Even though you say you are up to date, don't >they usually say the child will need tetanus again? If thats the case, >how do you get around that if you are " supposed to be ok " with >vaccines? > >Sandy No they should not give a tetanus just because of injury. Best is to say you don't vax if you are willing to deal with the possible consequences of that statement or say they are up to date and no thanks, you will check with your own doctor Sheri > -------------------------------------------------------- Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK $$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account earthmysteriestours@... voicemail US 530-740-0561 (go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm Reality of the Diseases & Treatment - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 This is interesting information Liora. Were you born and raised in China? The propaganda machine in the US tells us that China is a very bad place. Are we getting the truth? What's going on over there? The following story just came out about the one child thing - what do you think of the article? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/22/AR2007052201496.\ html?hpid=moreheadlines Other comments: The whole ER discussion really perturbs me. I have alot of thoughts and ideas but can't get them all into words right now. As you all would agree, this is very serious and something needs to be done. Basically, upon admission parents must be clear in writing that they have and maintain all authority over their child, and may at any time leave the hospital without harassment to seek proper care elsewhere. Plus other directives of course - no tetanus or rabies shots, no vaccines whatsoever, no tb or hiv tests, etc. On : Sorry, but I believe he's controlled opposition. , who criticizes , and exposes so much more truth, is also controlled opposition, in my opinion. Don't care to argue it, just merely giving my thoughts. Dan > > I do not lie about my childrens' vaccination status. > > But then again I live in China, where, paradoxically we have many more > freedoms than in the U.S. > > We unschool without interference or monitoring of any sort. We do not > vaccinate, and nobody cares. We Attachment Parent and Co-sleep. > Breastfeed for ages. Are vegetarian. > > In the States, someone, somewhere, would be tempted to " call the > authorities " , I.E. CPS because we just aren't NORMAL and are > NEGATIVELY AFFECTING our kids, in their opinion. > > I've said it before, I'll say it again, get out while you still can, > folks. America is headed down a dark path. You can still love the > U.S., still care, still be involved, and still sign petitions, argue > online, etc. from the other side of the world, while you have the > freedom to make your family exactly as you choose. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 hi, Dan No, we moved to Shanghai then Beijing, and have lived abroad for about 4 years now. I birthed both my kids here, the first in a hospital and the second in a (planned) unassisted home water birth--it was beautiful, calm, easy. China is, well, just totally different. Read Mr. China by Tim Clissold, it's great. China is getting a bad rap and there ARE big concerns here; air quality, water quality, chemical usage, reliably following basic procedures...China has become industrialized overnight and have no clue about protecting themselves, for the most part. The article, not surprising. The Chinese are waking up. Awareness is growing, Organic food suppliers are growing, and among the expat crowd, at least, demand is high (I started a group, naturally, for the consumers to share resources). sorry it took me so long but I did not see your question till now. by the way, I agree about , my family loves (they live in Austin). I've seen him online and I just can't believe he's still alive after all the powerful organizations he exposes. Controlled? I don't know... best,Liora > > > > I do not lie about my childrens' vaccination status. > > > > But then again I live in China, where, paradoxically we have many more > > freedoms than in the U.S. > > > > We unschool without interference or monitoring of any sort. We do not > > vaccinate, and nobody cares. We Attachment Parent and Co-sleep. > > Breastfeed for ages. Are vegetarian. > > > > In the States, someone, somewhere, would be tempted to " call the > > authorities " , I.E. CPS because we just aren't NORMAL and are > > NEGATIVELY AFFECTING our kids, in their opinion. > > > > I've said it before, I'll say it again, get out while you still can, > > folks. America is headed down a dark path. You can still love the > > U.S., still care, still be involved, and still sign petitions, argue > > online, etc. from the other side of the world, while you have the > > freedom to make your family exactly as you choose. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 What do you mean by controlled opposition? lioracc <lioracc@...> wrote: hi, Dan No, we moved to Shanghai then Beijing, and have lived abroad for about 4 years now. I birthed both my kids here, the first in a hospital and the second in a (planned) unassisted home water birth--it was beautiful, calm, easy. China is, well, just totally different. Read Mr. China by Tim Clissold, it's great. China is getting a bad rap and there ARE big concerns here; air quality, water quality, chemical usage, reliably following basic procedures...China has become industrialized overnight and have no clue about protecting themselves, for the most part. The article, not surprising. The Chinese are waking up. Awareness is growing, Organic food suppliers are growing, and among the expat crowd, at least, demand is high (I started a group, naturally, for the consumers to share resources). sorry it took me so long but I did not see your question till now. by the way, I agree about , my family loves (they live in Austin). I've seen him online and I just can't believe he's still alive after all the powerful organizations he exposes. Controlled? I don't know... best,Liora > > > > I do not lie about my childrens' vaccination status. > > > > But then again I live in China, where, paradoxically we have many more > > freedoms than in the U.S. > > > > We unschool without interference or monitoring of any sort. We do not > > vaccinate, and nobody cares. We Attachment Parent and Co-sleep. > > Breastfeed for ages. Are vegetarian. > > > > In the States, someone, somewhere, would be tempted to " call the > > authorities " , I.E. CPS because we just aren't NORMAL and are > > NEGATIVELY AFFECTING our kids, in their opinion. > > > > I've said it before, I'll say it again, get out while you still can, > > folks. America is headed down a dark path. You can still love the > > U.S., still care, still be involved, and still sign petitions, argue > > online, etc. from the other side of the world, while you have the > > freedom to make your family exactly as you choose. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 > > What do you mean by controlled opposition? " In the effort to establish a singular global government, the powers that be recognized that opposition to their plan would be evident and unavoidable. These opposition forces must certainly be neutralized and their voices squelched, if the socialists' plans to conquer the world were to be rendered successful. " How can one keep leaders from arising out of the teaming masses to speak out against the plan in favor of freedom? The diabolical would-be dictators understood the only way to accomplish this, was to create the perception that someone was already fighting the battle of liberty for them. Someone who both supported the plan, yet spoke out against it. Someone who would gain the trust of the masses, then employ diversionary tactics, leading them into tyranny. " These are the CONTROLLED OPPOSITION. They come in many different forms, and organizations, and purport to stand for various causes. Some fill pulpits, others occupy public offices. Several are broadcasters. All are deceivers. All are players of a manipulation process called the Hegelian Dialectic. " They hammer at issues, are vocal about matters that appeal to Christians and conservatives, and even do some good deeds. But their efforts always fail to mobilize their supporters to take the right action, leading the majority who never see through their scheme to ask, " Who silenced the outcry? " http://www.sweetliberty.org/wolves.htm I'm not familiar with this website, but the above answers the question very plainly. Be watchful of those in the anti-vaccine camp as well. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 yes, people infiltrate. See the same thing with activists at G8 meetings for example. Many peaceful groups. But other infiltrate and conduct acts of violence to give others a bad name. Or infiltrate to cause dissension in the group so they fail in their task. Sheri At 05:44 PM 6/17/2007 -0000, you wrote: > >> >> What do you mean by controlled opposition? > > " In the effort to establish a singular global government, the powers >that be recognized that opposition to their plan would be evident and >unavoidable. These opposition forces must certainly be neutralized and >their voices squelched, if the socialists' plans to conquer the world >were to be rendered successful. > > " How can one keep leaders from arising out of the teaming masses to >speak out against the plan in favor of freedom? The diabolical >would-be dictators understood the only way to accomplish this, was to >create the perception that someone was already fighting the battle of >liberty for them. Someone who both supported the plan, yet spoke out >against it. Someone who would gain the trust of the masses, then >employ diversionary tactics, leading them into tyranny. > > " These are the CONTROLLED OPPOSITION. They come in many different >forms, and organizations, and purport to stand for various causes. >Some fill pulpits, others occupy public offices. Several are >broadcasters. All are deceivers. All are players of a manipulation >process called the Hegelian Dialectic. > > " They hammer at issues, are vocal about matters that appeal to >Christians and conservatives, and even do some good deeds. But their >efforts always fail to mobilize their supporters to take the right >action, leading the majority who never see through their scheme to >ask, " Who silenced the outcry? " > >http://www.sweetliberty.org/wolves.htm > >I'm not familiar with this website, but the above answers the question >very plainly. Be watchful of those in the anti-vaccine camp as well. > >Dan > >> -------------------------------------------------------- Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK $$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account earthmysteriestours@... voicemail US 530-740-0561 (go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm Reality of the Diseases & Treatment - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 I hope you're not saying all these problems faced by these groups are due to infiltrators (though no doubt opponents do infiltrate and do do some of the things you've mentioned). Some people who do violence believe in something as fervently as the peaceful people (like ecoradicals or those who followed Malcom X, as opposed to Luther King, Jr.). And people who share a common view of the world aren't necessarily going to agree on every part of it, hence natural dissension that can arise (look at how many different types of church denominations there are, for example). On Jun 17, 2007, at 3:12 PM, Sheri Nakken wrote: > yes, people infiltrate. > See the same thing with activists at G8 meetings for example. Many > peaceful groups. But other infiltrate and conduct acts of violence > to give > others a bad name. > Or infiltrate to cause dissension in the group so they fail in > their task. > Sheri > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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