Re: Middle School...what is your take on this?

February 3, 2002

In a message dated 2/3/02 8:28:50 AM Central Standard Time, wildwards@...

writes:

> BTW, we had a sped teacher here that makes her students bring thank you

> gifts

> to give to the regular ed students when they are allowed to ride on the

> same

> bus to a field trip to the same location. What do you guys think of that?

>

> Cheryl in VA

>

I think that's awful!!!!! Jessie

February 3, 2002

No one is saying all kids or all parents fit a certain profile. In

fact, our school does a very good job of screening kids who have a

history of poor achievement or behavior problems for disabilities. In

addition to our six teachers for learning disabilities and three

teachers for emotionally disturbed, we have a psychologist and social

worker who are almost full time at our school.

And no one is blaming you for having a child who isn't a straight A

student. I myself have a child who carries a label of ADD. My complaint

probably does not apply to anyone on this list. I'm just saying that

there are some families who don't teach education or appropriate

behavior in an academic environment as part of their " family values " ,

and it can be difficult to almost impossible for teachers to get through

to these kids.

I'm a parent who is sometimes not totally happy with the " educators "

who are part of my children's lives. But working in a school where I

know all but a handful really go the extra mile, I also get defensive

when it appears that parents are generalizing their complaints about one

or a few teachers to include all. I really hope I didn't seem to be

criticizing all parents when I complained about the few who make the job

difficult in my community.

Bev

b4alltoday@... wrote:

> In a message dated 2/3/2002 9:37:49 AM Central Standard Time,

> blat@...

> writes:

>

> > On one hand, I really resent the parents

> > who do not teach their children the value of education or respect for

> > those in authority. They blame the school for every thing that goes

> > wrong for their kids and demand the school provide individual tutoring

> > when the kid could have learned on the first try if he had only been

> > taught to listen and follow directions. Sometimes I think we are

> > throwing good money after bad when it comes to remedial programs.

> Until

> > the parents teach their kids to value academics, remediation won't help

> > much.

> >

> Hi

>

> You may want to check out (online) some of the behaviors exhibited by

> kids

> who struggle or have LD labels.......some are which you named. So yes

> tutoring is beneficial and Im also betting it's not the parents fault.

>

> Kathy mom to Sara 10

>

> Check out some behaviors exhibited at

> <A HREF= " http://www.ldonline.org/ " >LD OnLine: Learning Disabilities

> Information & Resources</A>

> In addition, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) maintains ADD

> can be

> defined by the behaviors it causes. They include, for example, the

> following:

>

> Fidgeting with hands or feet or squirming in their seat (adolescents

> with ADD

> may appear restless);

> Difficulty remaining seated when required to do so;

> Difficulty sustaining attention and waiting for a turn in tasks, games or

> group situations;

> Blurting out answers to questions before the questions have been

> completed;

> Difficulty following through on instructions and in organizing tasks;

> Shifting from one unfinished activity to another

> Failing to give close attention to details and avoiding careless mistakes

> Losing things necessary for tasks or activities; and

> Difficulty in listening to others without being distracted or

> interrupting.

>

> You may be interested in the Digest of Education Statistics at.....

> <A HREF= "

> http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/general_info/statistics.html

> " >Learning Disabilities</A>

> Very intersting, Think about how many kids receive services and which

> child

> is missed, just might be the kids you are talking about.

>

February 3, 2002

Interesting thought! Come to think of it, that's exactly the approach

I've taken with Danny at church, scouts, and baseball. He always does

so much better after he has gone to a certain place several times,

missed it for a few weeks or months, then gone back. His second year of

baseball and regular Sunday school have gone so much more smoothly than

the first. It must take a while to build up a sense of security.

Bev

KVanRyzin@... wrote:

> In a message dated 2/3/02 7:50:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> blat@...

> writes:

>

> > BTW My frame of reference here is severe and profound, autistic,

> > severely emotionally disturbed (who can be a danger to themselves and

> > others)--ie the kids for whom least restrictive environment is mostly

> > self-contained.

> > Bev

> >

> Bev,

> I was thinking about this thread and how different some children are.

> I have

> been thinking in regards to my son who is more capable than some but

> quite a

> handful compared to others.

> I managed a group home for several years serving mostly the kids that you

> are talking about. In reflection I wish the schools (and I in

> advocating) had

> done somethings quite differently. I now know that if a child is going

> to be

> taught to tolerate different environments it should be done one place

> at a

> time. I wish I had worked with the school on taking the students to

> one place

> repeatedly and once the child could function there work on

> generalizing it to

> another place and so on.

> I also wish that school had spent more time in the familiar school

> environment working on augmentative communication techniques and

> devices and

> finding ways to make communication a possibility for these kids.

> In retrospect I really feel that the kids that I worked with got

> little out

> of their trips into the community from the school because the trips were

> treated as field trips rather than a therapeutic or teaching a reasonable

> goal.

> Just my opinion,

>

> Karyn

>

February 3, 2002

Just the other day I found myself in a conference with a parent (doesn't

happen often for us librarians) where it was obvious that the values(or

lack thereof) the child was exhibiting were not learned from the parent.

She told him over and over that he was to respect teachers and the

rights of other students.

But almost daily, a teacher or guidance counselor talks about a parent

who calls or comes in and exhibits total disrespect for the teachers and

school. In a case like that, wouldn't they have taught their children

by example?

Bev

Michdock@... wrote:

> How do you know that the parents haven't taught their children these

> things?

February 3, 2002

Now that you mention it--my son Danny, DS, does not seem to " value "

education much of the time! At least his sisters, two NDA, one ADD,

knew what was expected of them in school. Three out of four--we tried!

Bev

Val Surbey wrote:

> Thank you . Three of our boys have FASD (Fetal Alcohol Spectrum

> Disorder) and Tim has Down syndrome. Each of them have different learning

> styles and none of them is at the age where they can appreciate the

> value of

> education. However, school has been a positive experience for all of

> them,

> and I think that basically sets up the values for later on.

>

> Val in Winnipeg

>

> I really resent the parents

> > > who do not teach their children the value of education or respect for

> > > those in authority.

> >

> > Oh, this conerns me. How do you know that the parents haven't taught

> their

> > children these things? How do you know that there aren't some

> underlying

> > issues that make the child APPEAR to not have respect for authority or

> make

> > it harder for that child to learn?

> > I feel that children all have different ways that they learn and it

> is up

> to

> > the teacher to figure out how best to motivate each child. " If a

> child is

> > not learning the way we teach him, then we need to change the way we are

> > teaching. " I don't think that is the exact quote, but it's close

> enough.

> > Several of my children have different learning styles. I would love to

> have

> > had a teacher reach out and really TRY to know my children and what

> motivates

> > him and make a difference. But, it didn't happen here, and for that

> reason

> > one child didn't graduate and I am home schooling another.

> > I feel that I, as a parent, have taught my children well. What they

> choose

> > to do with it is theirs. I also feel that teachers choose their

> profession

> > knowing that it is a " heart " job, not alot of pay, alot of

> responsibility,

> > but wonderful paybacks if the effort is made. And I will be a VERY

> > supportive parent if I see the teachers making an effort, and I will

> be a

> > STRONG advocate if the need arises.

> >

February 3, 2002

Danny's teachers so far have been great, but I have run into the

principal from he**--the one who had one of our former list members

arrested!

Bev

b4alltoday@... wrote:

> I know it might be hard but who

> knows you might run into the teacher from he** one day too heehee

>

> Kathy mom to Sara 10...........counting my blessing, Sara's had some

> great

> teachers

>

February 3, 2002

In a message dated 02/03/2002 7:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, Linman42

writes:

<< I made the show so that no one could tell the difference between the

students. They all sang, danced, spoke, recited the poems, and acted. Yes

there are still self contained classes at my school where I work and also at

's school. They are self contained, but not segregated. The whole

school participates in things as a whole. >>

You get it and so does your school!! Wish it was the same everywhere!

Cheryl in VA

February 4, 2002

Oh, I thought she was just sending it to me SIX times! ;-)

Cheryl

February 4, 2002

In a message dated 02/03/2002 10:04:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,

linman42@... writes:

<< I think the point there is, the

children learn what they live, as we all would expect they do, but with the

right and appropiate values and not the negative ones. >>

I can say, as a parent, that I have been extremely disappointed many times by

the actions of other adults in their lives. It is not just school but at

sports and 4H, etc.

When my children were younger I spent much time trying to explain the poor

behavior of adults. Now that they are adults, we just shake our heads

together!

Cheryl in VA

February 4, 2002

In a message dated 02/03/2002 10:29:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,

b4alltoday@... writes:

<< Im betting the kids get their attitudes

from their peers and not the parents...in most cases....IMHO of course >>

Naw, it's from their hormones! ;-)

Cheryl in VA

February 4, 2002

In a message dated 02/03/2002 10:51:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,

KVanRyzin@... writes:

<< I know that 's special ed. teacher is not sitting in the teacher's

lounge blowing away her day. >>

Oh, I am sorry I did not specify I was speaking of regular ed teachers. In

my children's schools, sped teachers did not have planning time or time away

from kids for planning bells worked into their schedule ... how ridiculous!

When my daughter was in middle school I had collaboration time in her IEP and

that forced school to give her sped teacher a planning bell in conjunction

with the reg ed teacher's schedule ... she was very grateful!! ;-)

Cheryl in VA

February 4, 2002

In a message dated 2/3/02 1:53:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, huie@...

writes:

> Okay, I'll play the space cadet role. Who is the lunch room monitor? Is it

> someone's assigned duty? Both of the elementary schools the girls have

> attended, the teachers eat with the students daily. When I was in

> elementary school, our teachers ate with us. When I was in middle and high

> school, we didn't have a cafeteria, everyone brought from home and ate

> outside, or in covered areas. So who is watching the kids?

> Sharon

> Mom to (10, DS) and (6)

>

There are paid lunch room monitors at my son's school. The educational

assistants provide assistance and supervision to children who have that need

written into their IEPs (mostly the kids with physical disabilities).

Karyn

February 4, 2002

In a message dated 2/3/02 6:09:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, blat@...

writes:

>

> Danny's teachers so far have been great, but I have run into the

> principal from he**--the one who had one of our former list members

> arrested!

> Bev

>

Oh, you got THAT one. Yikes. I've never had someone that bad.

Good luck,sounds like you'll need it.

Karyn

February 4, 2002

--- wildwards@... wrote:

> BTW, we had a sped teacher here that makes her

> students bring thank you gifts

> to give to the regular ed students when they are

> allowed to ride on the same

> bus to a field trip to the same location. What do

> you guys think of that?

>

> Cheryl in VA

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

> I would like to reply to this practice and the

autographs post. I would not like my son doing either

of these things. It would be his right to ride any bus

his peers did and no thanks should be expected. And

planned asking for autographs from peers also in

opinion was a very misguided thing for a teacher to be

doing. It sets both groups up with the impression that

one group is superior than the other. I have never

seen HS or MS students ask each other for their

autographs. So why would anyone manufacture the

situation? I would have been very upset about both of