Health Care Reform

[Guest guest]

Although the medicare model is a bad model for patients and doctors, I'm not sure thats how this is going to be run. There hopefully will be a plan that benefits us all. If there are any physicians helping with this plan, i'm positive that the medicare model isn't what they'll attempt to mimic. Hopefully anyway, because you're right, that would not be good.

However, I believe it's about time we Think THink Think. Past administrations just Forget Forget Forget....their campaign promises. Addages such as "ohhh, that will never work" etc. are tiresome and have prevented our country from progressing on many fronts, including health care, electric cars, alternative fuels, foreign relations etc.

It's time we think of ways to improve this health delivery system in this country. There will always be people who jump up and say "Wait!!! it can't be done!" Seems this congress is bent on doing something.

ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800

Health Care Reform

Unlike projects in your home and business, congress is planning to do a project without money to pay for it.Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured out how to pay for it.First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get on to planning on how to implement it. Much more fun.So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic, we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going to work.We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.Of course. The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be passed RIGHT AWAY! They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need to engage people in the debate.We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care. E. Abrahamson, D.C.Chiropractic physicianLake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic315 Second StreetLake Oswego, OR 97034503-635-6246Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

[Guest guest]

,Could you support your position about the horrors of Medicare (with about a 2% overhead compared to 30+% overhead for private insurers) with some independent sources?  Fox Entertainment talking points excluded.  Prejudices are self-revealing, but fail to carry the argument, here or with constituent bases.  Solutions must favor patients above providers in order to gain widespread support.  Here's a link to 16,000 medical pros supporting single payer system: http://www.pnhp.org/Here's a CBS?NY Times recent poll showing most Americans support a government run health care program at this time: http://www.takepart.com/blog/2009/02/16/cbsny-times-poll-shows-broad-support-for-government-healthcare/Where is your support for your position?  Personally, I think the largest obstacle in preventing a bipartisan solution is the one Obama identified with his nominee to the SCOTUS, empathy. Sears, DC, IAYT2609 NW ThurmanPortland, Oregon 97210v: 503-225-0255f: 503-525-6902www.docbones.comOn Jun 11, 2009, at 11:17 AM, joe medlin wrote:Although the medicare model is a bad model for patients and doctors, I'm not sure thats how this is going to be run. There hopefully will be a plan that benefits us all. If there are any physicians helping with this plan, i'm positive that the medicare model isn't what they'll attempt to mimic. Hopefully anyway, because you're right, that would not be good. However, I believe it's about time we Think THink Think. Past administrations just Forget Forget Forget....their campaign promises.  Addages such as "ohhh, that will never work" etc. are tiresome and have prevented our country from progressing on many fronts, including health care, electric cars, alternative fuels, foreign relations etc. It's time we think of ways to improve this health delivery system in this country. There will always be people who jump up and say "Wait!!! it can't be done!"  Seems this congress is bent on doing something.   ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800  Health Care ReformUnlike projects in your home and business, congress is planning to do a project without money to pay for it.Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured out how to pay for it.First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get on to planning on how to implement it. Much more fun.So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic, we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going to work.We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.Of course. The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be passed RIGHT AWAY! They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need to engage people in the debate.We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care. E. Abrahamson, D.C.Chiropractic physicianLake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic315 Second StreetLake Oswego, OR 97034503-635-6246Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

[Guest guest]

,Could you support your position about the horrors of Medicare (with about a 2% overhead compared to 30+% overhead for private insurers) with some independent sources?  Fox Entertainment talking points excluded.  Prejudices are self-revealing, but fail to carry the argument, here or with constituent bases.  Solutions must favor patients above providers in order to gain widespread support.  Here's a link to 16,000 medical pros supporting single payer system: http://www.pnhp.org/Here's a CBS?NY Times recent poll showing most Americans support a government run health care program at this time: http://www.takepart.com/blog/2009/02/16/cbsny-times-poll-shows-broad-support-for-government-healthcare/Where is your support for your position?  Personally, I think the largest obstacle in preventing a bipartisan solution is the one Obama identified with his nominee to the SCOTUS, empathy. Sears, DC, IAYT2609 NW ThurmanPortland, Oregon 97210v: 503-225-0255f: 503-525-6902www.docbones.comOn Jun 11, 2009, at 11:17 AM, joe medlin wrote:Although the medicare model is a bad model for patients and doctors, I'm not sure thats how this is going to be run. There hopefully will be a plan that benefits us all. If there are any physicians helping with this plan, i'm positive that the medicare model isn't what they'll attempt to mimic. Hopefully anyway, because you're right, that would not be good. However, I believe it's about time we Think THink Think. Past administrations just Forget Forget Forget....their campaign promises.  Addages such as "ohhh, that will never work" etc. are tiresome and have prevented our country from progressing on many fronts, including health care, electric cars, alternative fuels, foreign relations etc. It's time we think of ways to improve this health delivery system in this country. There will always be people who jump up and say "Wait!!! it can't be done!"  Seems this congress is bent on doing something.   ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800  Health Care ReformUnlike projects in your home and business, congress is planning to do a project without money to pay for it.Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured out how to pay for it.First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get on to planning on how to implement it. Much more fun.So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic, we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going to work.We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.Of course. The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be passed RIGHT AWAY! They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need to engage people in the debate.We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care. E. Abrahamson, D.C.Chiropractic physicianLake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic315 Second StreetLake Oswego, OR 97034503-635-6246Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

[Guest guest]

Medicare sucks and everyone knows it (except people who think that post-war Viet Nam was a worker’s paradise).

You didn’t answer how we are going to pay for it.

I know, we’ll have Doc Brown develop an “Empathy Flux Capacitor”.

It will take all the empathy that qualified supreme court nominees have and use it to create 1.21 Gigawatts of energy to pay for universal health care!

HAHAHA!

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

From: Sears <dm.bones@...>

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:47:27 -0700

joe medlin <spinetree@...>

Cc: Oregon DCs < >, Abrahamson <drscott@...>

Subject: Re: Health Care Reform

,

Could you support your position about the horrors of Medicare (with about a 2% overhead compared to 30+% overhead for private insurers) with some independent sources?  Fox Entertainment talking points excluded.  Prejudices are self-revealing, but fail to carry the argument, here or with constituent bases.  Solutions must favor patients above providers in order to gain widespread support.  

Here's a link to 16,000 medical pros supporting single payer system: http://www.pnhp.org/

Here's a CBS?NY Times recent poll showing most Americans support a government run health care program at this time: http://www.takepart.com/blog/2009/02/16/cbsny-times-poll-shows-broad-support-for-government-healthcare/

Where is your support for your position?  

Personally, I think the largest obstacle in preventing a bipartisan solution is the one Obama identified with his nominee to the SCOTUS, empathy.

Sears, DC, IAYT

2609 NW Thurman

Portland, Oregon 97210

v: 503-225-0255

f: 503-525-6902

www.docbones.com

On Jun 11, 2009, at 11:17 AM, joe medlin wrote:

Although the medicare model is a bad model for patients and doctors, I'm not sure thats how this is going to be run. There hopefully will be a plan that benefits us all. If there are any physicians helping with this plan, i'm positive that the medicare model isn't what they'll attempt to mimic. Hopefully anyway, because you're right, that would not be good.

 

However, I believe it's about time we Think THink Think. Past administrations just Forget Forget Forget....their campaign promises.  Addages such as " ohhh, that will never work " etc. are tiresome and have prevented our country from progressing on many fronts, including health care, electric cars, alternative fuels, foreign relations etc.

 

It's time we think of ways to improve this health delivery system in this country. There will always be people who jump up and say " Wait!!! it can't be done! "   Seems this congress is bent on doing something.

 

 

 

ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chiropractic

1607 NE Alberta St

PDX, OR 97211

503-788-6800

  Health Care Reform

Unlike projects in your home and business, congress is planning to do a project without money to pay for it.

Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured out how to pay for it.

First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!

Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.

Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.

Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get on to planning on how to implement it. Much more fun.

So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic, we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going to work.

We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.

Of course. 

The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.

Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be passed RIGHT AWAY! 

They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need to engage people in the debate.

We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care.

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

[Guest guest]

It doesn't require rocket science or recreating the wheel to figure out how to insure ALL of us under a single payer program. MANY countries have been doing that for decades and they do it well, despite all the lies and chatter about how horrible their health care programs are and how we would all die if we nationalized (SOCIALIZED---OMG!!!!!!!) medicine...

Well, isn't that how we already funds our schools, our infrastructure, etc. We all pay TAXES--Hello!--to sustain those programs and benefits that are in the best interest of ALL citizens, not just the ones that can afford to pay for them.

I'm completely baffled as to why so many folks are developing gangrene over the thought that health care coverage might become UNIVERSAL...that is to say FAIR. And, yes, we will ALL end up paying for it. All of us are already paying for the hundreds of thousands of people who have NO insurance but who get treatment without the ability to pay for it. And we end up paying for years of their care when they become deathly or chronically ill after years of not having access to healthcare. WE pay for them through both taxes and our own skyrocketing, nickle-and-diming FOR PROFIT healthcare insurance premiums.

Most CIVILIZED countries have excellent working healthcare systems and their physicians are doing quite well financially, thank you very much. And their citizens are getting health care that is far better than ours, outstripping us in both morbitity and mortality.

We flush billions of dollars down the drain for, at best, a mediocre, stingy and shrinking care delivery system--except--Oh, geez, how could I forget!! That the drain empties right into the storm sewer of the FOR PROFIT insurance companies that then turn around and funnel millions (or is that billions?) of that money into the pockets of those politicians whojust can't seem to figure out how to get the job done. Hmmmm.

When we all finally 'get it' that our current FOR PROFIT system of healthcare is what is rotten in Denmark (yet another country that decided a long time ago that the RIGHT and INTELLIGENT thing to do is to provide ALL their citizens with good healthcare, education, and dignified retirement) and then DO something about that, the road to insuring all of our men, women and children, regardless of their ability to pay, will become obvious. It's a single payer, NOT FOR PROFIT system. It's just the right thing to do.

Beam me up, y...

Ann , DC

Re: Health Care Reform

Although the medicare model is a bad model for patients and doctors, I'm not sure thats how this is going to be run. There hopefully will be a plan that benefits us all. If there are any physicians helping with this plan, i'm positive that the medicare model isn't what they'll attempt to mimic. Hopefully anyway, because you're right, that would not be good.

However, I believe it's about time we Think THink Think. Past administrations just Forget Forget Forget....their campaign promises. Addages such as "ohhh, that will never work" etc. are tiresome and have prevented our country from progressing on many fronts, including health care, electric cars, alternative fuels, foreign relations etc.

It's time we think of ways to improve this health delivery system in this country. There will always be people who jump up and say "Wait!!! it can't be done!" Seems this congress is bent on doing something.

ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chir

opractic

1607 NE Alberta St

PDX, OR 97211

503-788-6800

Health Care Reform

Unlike projects in your home and business, congress is planning to do a project without money to pay for it.

Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured out how to pay for it.

First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!

Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.

Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.

Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get

on to planning on how to implement it. Much more fun.

So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic, we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going to work.

We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.

Of course.

The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.

Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be passed RIGHT AWAY!

They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need to engage people in the debate.

We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care.

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com

[Guest guest]

Hey

Have you looked at how the "universal model " has bankrupted Massachusetts?

How long do you think we will retain the best and brightest on medicare fee schedules?

The communist kitzabher developed a model here in Oregon... how's THAT working out?

Danno

Health Care ReformUnlike projects in your home and business, congress is planning to do a project without money to pay for it.Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured out how to pay for it.First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get on to planning on how to implement it. Much more fun.So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic, we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going to work.We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.Of course. The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be passed RIGHT AWAY! They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need to engage people in the debate.We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care. E. Abrahamson, D.C.Chiropractic physicianLake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic315 Second StreetLake Oswego, OR 97034503-635-6246Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.63/2169 - Release Date: 06/11/09 05:53:00

[Guest guest]

Hey

Have you looked at how the "universal model " has bankrupted Massachusetts?

How long do you think we will retain the best and brightest on medicare fee schedules?

The communist kitzabher developed a model here in Oregon... how's THAT working out?

Danno

Health Care ReformUnlike projects in your home and business, congress is planning to do a project without money to pay for it.Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured out how to pay for it.First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get on to planning on how to implement it. Much more fun.So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic, we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going to work.We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.Of course. The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be passed RIGHT AWAY! They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need to engage people in the debate.We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care. E. Abrahamson, D.C.Chiropractic physicianLake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic315 Second StreetLake Oswego, OR 97034503-635-6246Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.63/2169 - Release Date: 06/11/09 05:53:00

[Guest guest]

Well, ya got me there Ann,

The public school system is proof positive that government can run gigantic programs efficiently and effectively.

HAHAHAHAHA. Just kidding.

Why, just look at these articles from the magic of the internet demonstrating that while we spend more than any industrialized nation on education well, res ipsa loquitur:

Feds: 80% of South Carolina Public Schools Failing

September 30, 2008 · 34 Comments

After a year of poor SAT scores and bottom-line PACT proficiency, news of an across-the-board drop in the number of schools making “Adequate Yearly Progress” is just bad icing on an already inedible cake.

Parents have already had to hear that even the best performing school districts in South Carolina are still hundreds of points below public schools in North Carolina. Now, figures from the State Department of Education show that only 1 out of every 5 schools in South Carolina met goals for “Adequate Yearly Progress.”

Description : Abstract

Boeri reports that the Massachusetts Advocacy Center released statistics indicating that the student failure rate in the Boston Public Schools has increased by 24 percent.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t & source=web & ct=res & cd=2 & url=http%3A%2F%2Fmain.wgbh.org%2Fton%2Fprograms%2F4408_01 & ei=S3oxSoO5HY3ytQOf8LXuBg & usg=AFQjCNFfrEF--SRQmcWuqNR0rd26LJoSFQ & sig2=TJN0NezmoIflUlTQs81YZA

New Jersey Real-Time News

Breaking Local News from New Jersey

N.J. School Report Card results show high failure rates for middle schoolers

by Steve Chambers/The Star-Ledger

Wednesday February 04, 2009, 7:14 PM

Gov. Jon Corzine's goal of raising standards in New Jersey high schools is getting off to a rocky start, with huge numbers of middle school students failing rigorous new tests designed to prepare them for the next level.

And look at all the research on private schools. Grades through the roof. Many parents sacrificing hugely to pay for it.

It’s not all lies and chatter; it’s true. Nationalized health care sucks.

All my patients from foreign countries love the fact that it’s free but they hate rationing.

My leg is numb. Fine. MRI in 8 months. But my leg is numb. Next.

If you’re going to make arguments about spending policy based upon who needs something, we need to give food, shelter, clothing, college education, travel, athletics, music lessons, mental health, dentistry, orthodontia, etc.

The problem is that it was tried.

They had to build an iron curtain around the country to keep people in while they experiemented for 70 years.

It didn’t work.

You still haven’t answered my question to : how are you going to pay for nationalized health care?

On 6/11/09 1:52 PM, " bluepearl2001@... " <bluepearl2001@...> wrote:

It doesn't require rocket science or recreating the wheel to figure out how to insure ALL of us under a single payer program. MANY countries have been doing that for decades and they do it well, despite all the lies and chatter about how horrible their health care programs are and how we would all die if we nationalized (SOCIALIZED---OMG!!!!!!!) medicine...

Well, isn't that how we already funds our schools, our infrastructure, etc. We all pay TAXES--Hello!--to sustain those programs and benefits that are in the best interest of ALL citizens, not just the ones that can afford to pay for them.

I'm completely baffled as to why so many folks are developing gangrene over the thought that health care coverage might become UNIVERSAL...that is to say FAIR. And, yes, we will ALL end up paying for it. All of us are already paying for the hundreds of thousands of people who have NO insurance but who get treatment without the ability to pay for it. And we end up paying for years of their care when they become deathly or chronically ill after years of not having access to healthcare. WE pay for them through both taxes and our own skyrocketing, nickle-and-diming FOR PROFIT healthcare insurance premiums.

Most CIVILIZED countries have excellent working healthcare systems and their physicians are doing quite well financially, thank you very much. And their citizens are getting health care that is far better than ours, outstripping us in both morbitity and mortality.

We flush billions of dollars down the drain for, at best, a mediocre, stingy and shrinking care delivery system--except--Oh, geez, how could I forget!! That the drain empties right into the storm sewer of the FOR PROFIT insurance companies that then turn around and funnel millions (or is that billions?) of that money into the pockets of those politicians whojust can't seem to figure out how to get the job done. Hmmmm.

When we all finally 'get it' that our current FOR PROFIT system of healthcare is what is rotten in Denmark (yet another country that decided a long time ago that the RIGHT and INTELLIGENT thing to do is to provide ALL their citizens with good healthcare, education, and dignified retirement) and then DO something about that, the road to insuring all of our men, women and children, regardless of their ability to pay, will become obvious. It's a single payer, NOT FOR PROFIT system. It's just the right thing to do.

Beam me up, y...

Ann , DC

Re: Health Care Reform

Although the medicare model is a bad model for patients and doctors, I'm not sure thats how this is going to be run. There hopefully will be a plan that benefits us all. If there are any physicians helping with this plan, i'm positive that the medicare model isn't what they'll attempt to mimic. Hopefully anyway, because you're right, that would not be good.

However, I believe it's about time we Think THink Think. Past administrations just Forget Forget Forget....their campaign promises. Addages such as " ohhh, that will never work " etc. are tiresome and have prevented our country from progressing on many fronts, including health care, electric cars, alternative fuels, foreign relations etc.

It's time we think of ways to improve this health delivery system in this country. There will always be people who jump up and say " Wait!!! it can't be done! " Seems this congress is bent on doing something.

ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chir opractic

1607 NE Alberta St

PDX, OR 97211

503-788-6800

Health Care Reform

Unlike projects in your home and business, congress is planning to do a project without money to pay for it.

Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured out how to pay for it.

First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!

Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.

Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.

Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get on to planning on how to implement it. Much more fun.

So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic, we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going to work.

We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.

Of course.

The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.

Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be passed RIGHT AWAY!

They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need to engage people in the debate.

We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care.

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com

[Guest guest]

Well, ya got me there Ann,

The public school system is proof positive that government can run gigantic programs efficiently and effectively.

HAHAHAHAHA. Just kidding.

Why, just look at these articles from the magic of the internet demonstrating that while we spend more than any industrialized nation on education well, res ipsa loquitur:

Feds: 80% of South Carolina Public Schools Failing

September 30, 2008 · 34 Comments

After a year of poor SAT scores and bottom-line PACT proficiency, news of an across-the-board drop in the number of schools making “Adequate Yearly Progress” is just bad icing on an already inedible cake.

Parents have already had to hear that even the best performing school districts in South Carolina are still hundreds of points below public schools in North Carolina. Now, figures from the State Department of Education show that only 1 out of every 5 schools in South Carolina met goals for “Adequate Yearly Progress.”

Description : Abstract

Boeri reports that the Massachusetts Advocacy Center released statistics indicating that the student failure rate in the Boston Public Schools has increased by 24 percent.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t & source=web & ct=res & cd=2 & url=http%3A%2F%2Fmain.wgbh.org%2Fton%2Fprograms%2F4408_01 & ei=S3oxSoO5HY3ytQOf8LXuBg & usg=AFQjCNFfrEF--SRQmcWuqNR0rd26LJoSFQ & sig2=TJN0NezmoIflUlTQs81YZA

New Jersey Real-Time News

Breaking Local News from New Jersey

N.J. School Report Card results show high failure rates for middle schoolers

by Steve Chambers/The Star-Ledger

Wednesday February 04, 2009, 7:14 PM

Gov. Jon Corzine's goal of raising standards in New Jersey high schools is getting off to a rocky start, with huge numbers of middle school students failing rigorous new tests designed to prepare them for the next level.

And look at all the research on private schools. Grades through the roof. Many parents sacrificing hugely to pay for it.

It’s not all lies and chatter; it’s true. Nationalized health care sucks.

All my patients from foreign countries love the fact that it’s free but they hate rationing.

My leg is numb. Fine. MRI in 8 months. But my leg is numb. Next.

If you’re going to make arguments about spending policy based upon who needs something, we need to give food, shelter, clothing, college education, travel, athletics, music lessons, mental health, dentistry, orthodontia, etc.

The problem is that it was tried.

They had to build an iron curtain around the country to keep people in while they experiemented for 70 years.

It didn’t work.

You still haven’t answered my question to : how are you going to pay for nationalized health care?

On 6/11/09 1:52 PM, " bluepearl2001@... " <bluepearl2001@...> wrote:

It doesn't require rocket science or recreating the wheel to figure out how to insure ALL of us under a single payer program. MANY countries have been doing that for decades and they do it well, despite all the lies and chatter about how horrible their health care programs are and how we would all die if we nationalized (SOCIALIZED---OMG!!!!!!!) medicine...

Well, isn't that how we already funds our schools, our infrastructure, etc. We all pay TAXES--Hello!--to sustain those programs and benefits that are in the best interest of ALL citizens, not just the ones that can afford to pay for them.

I'm completely baffled as to why so many folks are developing gangrene over the thought that health care coverage might become UNIVERSAL...that is to say FAIR. And, yes, we will ALL end up paying for it. All of us are already paying for the hundreds of thousands of people who have NO insurance but who get treatment without the ability to pay for it. And we end up paying for years of their care when they become deathly or chronically ill after years of not having access to healthcare. WE pay for them through both taxes and our own skyrocketing, nickle-and-diming FOR PROFIT healthcare insurance premiums.

Most CIVILIZED countries have excellent working healthcare systems and their physicians are doing quite well financially, thank you very much. And their citizens are getting health care that is far better than ours, outstripping us in both morbitity and mortality.

We flush billions of dollars down the drain for, at best, a mediocre, stingy and shrinking care delivery system--except--Oh, geez, how could I forget!! That the drain empties right into the storm sewer of the FOR PROFIT insurance companies that then turn around and funnel millions (or is that billions?) of that money into the pockets of those politicians whojust can't seem to figure out how to get the job done. Hmmmm.

When we all finally 'get it' that our current FOR PROFIT system of healthcare is what is rotten in Denmark (yet another country that decided a long time ago that the RIGHT and INTELLIGENT thing to do is to provide ALL their citizens with good healthcare, education, and dignified retirement) and then DO something about that, the road to insuring all of our men, women and children, regardless of their ability to pay, will become obvious. It's a single payer, NOT FOR PROFIT system. It's just the right thing to do.

Beam me up, y...

Ann , DC

Re: Health Care Reform

Although the medicare model is a bad model for patients and doctors, I'm not sure thats how this is going to be run. There hopefully will be a plan that benefits us all. If there are any physicians helping with this plan, i'm positive that the medicare model isn't what they'll attempt to mimic. Hopefully anyway, because you're right, that would not be good.

However, I believe it's about time we Think THink Think. Past administrations just Forget Forget Forget....their campaign promises. Addages such as " ohhh, that will never work " etc. are tiresome and have prevented our country from progressing on many fronts, including health care, electric cars, alternative fuels, foreign relations etc.

It's time we think of ways to improve this health delivery system in this country. There will always be people who jump up and say " Wait!!! it can't be done! " Seems this congress is bent on doing something.

ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chir opractic

1607 NE Alberta St

PDX, OR 97211

503-788-6800

Health Care Reform

Unlike projects in your home and business, congress is planning to do a project without money to pay for it.

Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured out how to pay for it.

First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!

Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.

Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.

Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get on to planning on how to implement it. Much more fun.

So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic, we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going to work.

We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.

Of course.

The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.

Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be passed RIGHT AWAY!

They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need to engage people in the debate.

We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care.

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com

[Guest guest]

There will undoubtedly be creative ways developed to help pay for this, but count on taxes being one of them. You knew that though.

Fundamentally conservatives have difficulty with anything government run. Sad for them this is going to happen and it will be paid for. My guess is that if it were free most conservatives would still not support it.

In regards to your examples about folks not liking a nationalized system. That MRI they had to wait for didn't ruin their credit and raise our taxes because of inability to pay. They did eventually get it done. They didnt' avoid going to the hospital and risk the potential of having a more serious pressing condition missed and left to fester into something worse.

The public schools is a great example actually. Our public school system despite your dismal examples provides a wonderful education to most of our young people. Would you be in favor of scratching it for a private system only? That would be devastating and stupid, although, what do i know, i was a public schooler.

Circa 1800's: "Public Education???!!! Who's gonna pay for it????"

Gitterdone.

ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800

Health Care ReformUnlike projects in your home and business, congress is planning to do a project without money to pay for it.Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured out how to pay for it.First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get on to planning on how to implement it. Much more fun.So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic, we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going to work.We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.Of course. The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be passed RIGHT AWAY! They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need to engage people in the debate.We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care. E. Abrahamson, D.C.Chiropractic physicianLake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic315 Second StreetLake Oswego, OR 97034503-635-6246Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com

[Guest guest]

You hit the nail right on the head with regard to BIG INSURANCE PROFITS. They are obscene and they aren't going to go quietly into this good night. Exactly my point.

And as for whether chiro care is covered or not, it's just as likely that we will be on the outside as on the inside.

I believe that when we wean people from the breast of big insurance momma, they won't freak out when they have to pay for some of their services. I started my practice as a cash only practice and build a good practice anyway. If I did it once, I can do it again.

Ann

Re: Health Care Reform

About two weeks ago, Bill Moyers had an excellent piece about single payer. He interviewed the head of California nurses Assn and two Med school profs who are advocates for single payer.. All concluded single payer would save money, but that it's not politically viable to get rid of the Insurance industry that skims 30% of health care dollars . The segment included reviews of countries such as Canada which has had it along time, and more recently Taiwan. You can get to that program at PBS.org.

The big fly in the ointment is Insurance companies, and Uncle Sam deciding what services and what providers are to be covered. The worst case scenario for us is that Insurance is still in and we are out. Or maybe that's not so bad. I have friends in both England and Canada who have thriving practices where national health doesn't pay a nickel for Chiropractic!

R Johansen D.C.,DABCO

Chiropractic Life Center

12762 SE Stark Street

Portland Oregon 97233

Voice 5032557746,Fax 5032550818

----- Health Care Reform

Unlike projects in your home and business, congress is planning to do a project without money to pay for it.

Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured out how to pay for it.

First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!

Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.

Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.

Forget that paying for it stuff. Lets just get on to planning on how to implement it. Much more fun.

So, if we as doctors dont have enough money to open a satellite clinic, we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going to work.

We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.

Of course.

The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.

Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be passed RIGHT AWAY!

They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need to engage people in the debate.

We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (dont hold your breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care.

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com

____________________________________________________________

Click here to find the right stock, bonds, and mutual funds.

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[Guest guest]

spinetree@...; From: bluepearl2001@...Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:52:47 -0400Subject: Re: Health Care Reform

>>>>

I'm completely baffled as to why so many folks are developing gangrene over the thought that health care coverage might become UNIVERSAL...that is to say FAIR.  <<<<<Well, I think one reason is FEAR. Fear that we will as providers be forced to get paid a set low rate for what we do, a rate so low that we will not be able to make as much as we would like to for our efforts, or even worse, force us out of practice.I'm all for change, but to get everyone on board with it, we must address this issue of fear. And those who merely insult, scoff, and denigrate real efforts to better things should, I feel, make a proposal to address the fact that the system is broken and badly needs repair or replacement. To be negative and obstructive without alternative ideas is, I feel, disingenuous. Terry Petty, D.C.

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[Guest guest]

spinetree@...; From: bluepearl2001@...Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:52:47 -0400Subject: Re: Health Care Reform

>>>>

I'm completely baffled as to why so many folks are developing gangrene over the thought that health care coverage might become UNIVERSAL...that is to say FAIR.  <<<<<Well, I think one reason is FEAR. Fear that we will as providers be forced to get paid a set low rate for what we do, a rate so low that we will not be able to make as much as we would like to for our efforts, or even worse, force us out of practice.I'm all for change, but to get everyone on board with it, we must address this issue of fear. And those who merely insult, scoff, and denigrate real efforts to better things should, I feel, make a proposal to address the fact that the system is broken and badly needs repair or replacement. To be negative and obstructive without alternative ideas is, I feel, disingenuous. Terry Petty, D.C.

Recent Activity

Visit Your Group

Give Back

for Good

Get inspired

by a good cause.

Y! Toolbar

Get it Free!

easy 1-click access

to your groups.

Start a group

in 3 easy steps.

Connect with others.

.

Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. See how.

[Guest guest]

We chiropractors are compassionate people by nature.

You are much more likely to find pro bono patients in a chiropractic practice than any medical practice and our work is arguabley harder.

My wife is a counselor in my clinic. Most of her clients are women. Many are single moms trying their hearts out to provide for their families while some deadbeat ex fails them. Many of them have JUST enough assets to not qualify for government benefits. If they were any poorer, they’d be sleeping under a bridge. It is frustrating that the rules have been made to limit the amount of money you can make before you receive needed benefits.

We also know a lot of deadbeats who can work and won’t; who abuse the system and drain its assets.

(It’s interesting that her pro bono patients are take the most work, are the most resistant to change, don’t do homework assignments, call on weekends, and don’t get better!)

All that said, we can’t afford universal health care.

We can’t afford the programs in place now.

Social Security will be bankrupt and everyone knows it.

Same with Medicare when the boomers really start coming of age(didn’t say growing up; that may never happen!).

I love the free market system. It’s given us cheaper faster and better computers because of freewheeling competition.

You can fit your whole record, I mean CD collectionin your shirt pocket on an iPod for a few hundred bucks.

We have affordable cell phones and almost free long distance for the same reason.

And the free market system makes ME work harder. If the chiro. Down the street gets a massage therapist or some new scanner it forces me to do the same or do something else as cool.

As I said before, Zane Pilzer’s books and online articles on health care are a must read for people who are against government run health care but want to find a way to make it accessable to more people faster, cheaper, and better.

To really study the history of health insurance and some great ideas to reinsert the free market system into health care, read some of economist Zane Pilzer’s stuff (he wrote “The New Health Insurance Solution” and “The Wellness Revolution”.)

http://www.paulzanepilzer.com/

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

On 6/11/09 1:57 PM, " D Beebe, D.C. " <daniel.beebe@...> wrote:

Hey

Have you looked at how the " universal model " has bankrupted Massachusetts?

How long do you think we will retain the best and brightest on medicare fee schedules?

The communist kitzabher developed a model here in Oregon... how's THAT working out?

Danno

Health Care Reform

Unlike projects in your home and business, congress is planning to do a project without money to pay for it.

Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured out how to pay for it.

First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!

Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.

Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.

Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get on to planning on how to implement it. Much more fun.

So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic, we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going to work.

We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.

Of course.

The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.

Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be passed RIGHT AWAY!

They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need to engage people in the debate.

We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care.

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.63/2169 - Release Date: 06/11/09 05:53:00

[Guest guest]

We chiropractors are compassionate people by nature.

You are much more likely to find pro bono patients in a chiropractic practice than any medical practice and our work is arguabley harder.

My wife is a counselor in my clinic. Most of her clients are women. Many are single moms trying their hearts out to provide for their families while some deadbeat ex fails them. Many of them have JUST enough assets to not qualify for government benefits. If they were any poorer, they’d be sleeping under a bridge. It is frustrating that the rules have been made to limit the amount of money you can make before you receive needed benefits.

We also know a lot of deadbeats who can work and won’t; who abuse the system and drain its assets.

(It’s interesting that her pro bono patients are take the most work, are the most resistant to change, don’t do homework assignments, call on weekends, and don’t get better!)

All that said, we can’t afford universal health care.

We can’t afford the programs in place now.

Social Security will be bankrupt and everyone knows it.

Same with Medicare when the boomers really start coming of age(didn’t say growing up; that may never happen!).

I love the free market system. It’s given us cheaper faster and better computers because of freewheeling competition.

You can fit your whole record, I mean CD collectionin your shirt pocket on an iPod for a few hundred bucks.

We have affordable cell phones and almost free long distance for the same reason.

And the free market system makes ME work harder. If the chiro. Down the street gets a massage therapist or some new scanner it forces me to do the same or do something else as cool.

As I said before, Zane Pilzer’s books and online articles on health care are a must read for people who are against government run health care but want to find a way to make it accessable to more people faster, cheaper, and better.

To really study the history of health insurance and some great ideas to reinsert the free market system into health care, read some of economist Zane Pilzer’s stuff (he wrote “The New Health Insurance Solution” and “The Wellness Revolution”.)

http://www.paulzanepilzer.com/

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

On 6/11/09 1:57 PM, " D Beebe, D.C. " <daniel.beebe@...> wrote:

Hey

Have you looked at how the " universal model " has bankrupted Massachusetts?

How long do you think we will retain the best and brightest on medicare fee schedules?

The communist kitzabher developed a model here in Oregon... how's THAT working out?

Danno

Health Care Reform

Unlike projects in your home and business, congress is planning to do a project without money to pay for it.

Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured out how to pay for it.

First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!

Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.

Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.

Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get on to planning on how to implement it. Much more fun.

So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic, we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going to work.

We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.

Of course.

The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.

Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be passed RIGHT AWAY!

They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need to engage people in the debate.

We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care.

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.63/2169 - Release Date: 06/11/09 05:53:00

[Guest guest]

I’ve had enough and can’t

stand idle on this conversation. We have this thing called the

Declaration of Independence that if I’m not mistaken was put in place to

protect us from the government and other people. We founded this great

nation with the idea that any person can be responsible for his or her

future. Anyone can be successful and profit in their business as long as

they are not restricting other persons rights. We are also held

accountable for our actions and expected to bear self responsibility. America has a

great history of generosity, by choice, not by force. We already pay for

the child who has made poor choices, has two babies and no partner. We

already pay for the meth addict that can’t find a job. We are supposed to

pay for your father that smokes two packs a day, weighs three hundred pounds

and eats a diet of twinkies while on disability for diabetes. How does

this teach people about self responsibility? If a tornado ravaged his

house I would happily help him rebuild it. If that babies parents died I

would by choice help support them.

I spent hours on the plane over the

weekend speaking with a Russian about politics. He states that his

country is moving more toward true freedom and capitalism. I stated that

our country continues to move toward socialism. We are becoming what Russia was.

If you choose to be more generous with you

money that is your choice, but I would really appreciate having a choice about

what is happening with my money.

These programs if you look at statistics

are all dysfunctional and encourage more people to be on welfare, let someone

else pay for it. What are we teaching our children? Health care is

a privilege, eating is a privilege; I support many charities and organizations

by choice.

Please do not try to force me.

Our country is a mess, the Euro is almost

1.5 times the dollar, it was almost equal a few years ago. Our health

care system is failing miserably, so let’s let the government take it

over and solve all the problems. I don’t blame this on Obama, or

Bush, I blame it on government interference. Let’s try holding the

government accountable for these failing systems.

I appreciate that each one of you has an

opinion, but please don’t try to force it upon me. I live here for

freedom, not for any other reason.

I will ask each one of you to hold

yourselves accountable and responsible. If you are going to build a wall

around our nation, please let me out first.

Now can we talk about chiropractic as the

future of health care? I teach my patients self responsibility and I hope

you do to.

Kehr

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of bluepearl2001@...

Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:53

PM

spinetree@...;

Subject: Re:

Health Care Reform

It doesn't require rocket science or recreating the wheel to

figure out how to insure ALL of us under a single payer program. MANY

countries have been doing that for decades and they do it well, despite all the

lies and chatter about how horrible their health care programs are and how we would all die if

we nationalized (SOCIALIZED---OMG!!!!!!!)

medicine...

Well, isn't that how we already funds our schools, our

infrastructure, etc. We all pay TAXES--Hello!--to sustain those

programs and benefits that are in the best interest of ALL citizens, not just

the ones that can afford to pay for them.

I'm completely baffled as to why so many folks are developing gangrene

over the thought that health care coverage might become UNIVERSAL...that

is to say FAIR. And, yes, we will ALL end up paying for

it. All of us are already paying for the hundreds of thousands of

people who have NO insurance but who get treatment without the ability to pay

for it. And we end up paying for years of their care when they

become deathly or chronically ill after years of not having access to

healthcare. WE pay for them through both taxes and our own

skyrocketing, nickle-and-diming FOR PROFIT healthcare insurance premiums.

Most CIVILIZED countries have excellent working healthcare systems and their

physicians are doing quite well financially, thank you very much. And

their citizens are getting health care that is far better than ours,

outstripping us in both morbitity and mortality.

We flush billions of dollars down the drain for, at best, a

mediocre, stingy and shrinking care delivery system--except--Oh,

geez, how could I forget!! That the drain empties right into the storm

sewer of the FOR PROFIT insurance companies that then turn around and funnel

millions (or is that billions?) of that money into the pockets of those

politicians whojust can't seem to figure out how to get the job

done. Hmmmm.

When we all finally 'get it' that our current FOR PROFIT system of healthcare

is what is rotten in Denmark (yet another country that decided a long time

ago that the RIGHT and INTELLIGENT thing to do is to provide ALL

their citizens with good healthcare, education, and dignified retirement)

and then DO something about that, the road to insuring all of our men, women

and children, regardless of their ability to pay, will become obvious.

It's a single payer, NOT FOR PROFIT system. It's just the right thing to

do.

Beam me up, y...

Ann , DC

Re: Health Care Reform

Although the medicare model is a bad model for patients and doctors,

I'm not sure thats how this is going to be run. There hopefully will be a plan

that benefits us all. If there are any physicians helping with this plan, i'm

positive that the medicare model isn't what they'll attempt to

mimic. Hopefully anyway, because you're right, that would not be good.

However, I believe it's about time we Think THink Think. Past

administrations just Forget Forget Forget....their campaign promises.

Addages such as " ohhh, that will never work " etc. are tiresome and

have prevented our country from progressing on many fronts, including health

care, electric cars, alternative fuels, foreign relations etc.

It's time we think of ways to improve this health delivery system in

this country. There will always be people who jump up and say " Wait!!! it

can't be done! " Seems this congress is bent on doing something.

ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chir opractic

1607 NE Alberta St

PDX, OR 97211

503-788-6800

Health Care Reform

Unlike projects in your home and business, congress is

planning to do a project without money to pay for it.

Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured

out how to pay for it.

First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found

out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!

Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable

giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.

Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for

free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.

Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get on to planning on how to

implement it. Much more fun.

So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic,

we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going

to work.

We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think

that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.

Of course.

The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.

Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable

but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be

passed RIGHT AWAY!

They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need

to engage people in the debate.

We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your

breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care.

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego

Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com

[Guest guest]

I’ve had enough and can’t

stand idle on this conversation. We have this thing called the

Declaration of Independence that if I’m not mistaken was put in place to

protect us from the government and other people. We founded this great

nation with the idea that any person can be responsible for his or her

future. Anyone can be successful and profit in their business as long as

they are not restricting other persons rights. We are also held

accountable for our actions and expected to bear self responsibility. America has a

great history of generosity, by choice, not by force. We already pay for

the child who has made poor choices, has two babies and no partner. We

already pay for the meth addict that can’t find a job. We are supposed to

pay for your father that smokes two packs a day, weighs three hundred pounds

and eats a diet of twinkies while on disability for diabetes. How does

this teach people about self responsibility? If a tornado ravaged his

house I would happily help him rebuild it. If that babies parents died I

would by choice help support them.

I spent hours on the plane over the

weekend speaking with a Russian about politics. He states that his

country is moving more toward true freedom and capitalism. I stated that

our country continues to move toward socialism. We are becoming what Russia was.

If you choose to be more generous with you

money that is your choice, but I would really appreciate having a choice about

what is happening with my money.

These programs if you look at statistics

are all dysfunctional and encourage more people to be on welfare, let someone

else pay for it. What are we teaching our children? Health care is

a privilege, eating is a privilege; I support many charities and organizations

by choice.

Please do not try to force me.

Our country is a mess, the Euro is almost

1.5 times the dollar, it was almost equal a few years ago. Our health

care system is failing miserably, so let’s let the government take it

over and solve all the problems. I don’t blame this on Obama, or

Bush, I blame it on government interference. Let’s try holding the

government accountable for these failing systems.

I appreciate that each one of you has an

opinion, but please don’t try to force it upon me. I live here for

freedom, not for any other reason.

I will ask each one of you to hold

yourselves accountable and responsible. If you are going to build a wall

around our nation, please let me out first.

Now can we talk about chiropractic as the

future of health care? I teach my patients self responsibility and I hope

you do to.

Kehr

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of bluepearl2001@...

Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:53

PM

spinetree@...;

Subject: Re:

Health Care Reform

It doesn't require rocket science or recreating the wheel to

figure out how to insure ALL of us under a single payer program. MANY

countries have been doing that for decades and they do it well, despite all the

lies and chatter about how horrible their health care programs are and how we would all die if

we nationalized (SOCIALIZED---OMG!!!!!!!)

medicine...

Well, isn't that how we already funds our schools, our

infrastructure, etc. We all pay TAXES--Hello!--to sustain those

programs and benefits that are in the best interest of ALL citizens, not just

the ones that can afford to pay for them.

I'm completely baffled as to why so many folks are developing gangrene

over the thought that health care coverage might become UNIVERSAL...that

is to say FAIR. And, yes, we will ALL end up paying for

it. All of us are already paying for the hundreds of thousands of

people who have NO insurance but who get treatment without the ability to pay

for it. And we end up paying for years of their care when they

become deathly or chronically ill after years of not having access to

healthcare. WE pay for them through both taxes and our own

skyrocketing, nickle-and-diming FOR PROFIT healthcare insurance premiums.

Most CIVILIZED countries have excellent working healthcare systems and their

physicians are doing quite well financially, thank you very much. And

their citizens are getting health care that is far better than ours,

outstripping us in both morbitity and mortality.

We flush billions of dollars down the drain for, at best, a

mediocre, stingy and shrinking care delivery system--except--Oh,

geez, how could I forget!! That the drain empties right into the storm

sewer of the FOR PROFIT insurance companies that then turn around and funnel

millions (or is that billions?) of that money into the pockets of those

politicians whojust can't seem to figure out how to get the job

done. Hmmmm.

When we all finally 'get it' that our current FOR PROFIT system of healthcare

is what is rotten in Denmark (yet another country that decided a long time

ago that the RIGHT and INTELLIGENT thing to do is to provide ALL

their citizens with good healthcare, education, and dignified retirement)

and then DO something about that, the road to insuring all of our men, women

and children, regardless of their ability to pay, will become obvious.

It's a single payer, NOT FOR PROFIT system. It's just the right thing to

do.

Beam me up, y...

Ann , DC

Re: Health Care Reform

Although the medicare model is a bad model for patients and doctors,

I'm not sure thats how this is going to be run. There hopefully will be a plan

that benefits us all. If there are any physicians helping with this plan, i'm

positive that the medicare model isn't what they'll attempt to

mimic. Hopefully anyway, because you're right, that would not be good.

However, I believe it's about time we Think THink Think. Past

administrations just Forget Forget Forget....their campaign promises.

Addages such as " ohhh, that will never work " etc. are tiresome and

have prevented our country from progressing on many fronts, including health

care, electric cars, alternative fuels, foreign relations etc.

It's time we think of ways to improve this health delivery system in

this country. There will always be people who jump up and say " Wait!!! it

can't be done! " Seems this congress is bent on doing something.

ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chir opractic

1607 NE Alberta St

PDX, OR 97211

503-788-6800

Health Care Reform

Unlike projects in your home and business, congress is

planning to do a project without money to pay for it.

Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured

out how to pay for it.

First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found

out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!

Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable

giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.

Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for

free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.

Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get on to planning on how to

implement it. Much more fun.

So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic,

we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going

to work.

We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think

that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.

Of course.

The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.

Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable

but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be

passed RIGHT AWAY!

They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need

to engage people in the debate.

We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your

breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care.

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego

Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com

[Guest guest]

Last December the Obama administration asked for small groups to get together and discuss health care reform. I put this out to the list serve to see if anyone wanted to put a group together. Guess how many responses I got - ZERO. s. fuchs dcSent from my iPhoneOn Jun 11, 2009, at 7:34 PM, "Terry Petty" <drglow@...> wrote:spinetreeqwestoffice (DOT) net; From: bluepearl2001csDate: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:52:47 -0400Subject: Re: Health Care Reform>>>>I'm completely baffled as to why so many folks are developing gangrene over the thought that health care coverage might become UNIVERSAL...that is to say FAIR. <<<<<Well, I think one reason is FEAR. Fear that we will as providers be forced to get paid a set low rate for what we do, a rate so low that we will not be able to make as much as we would like to for our efforts, or even worse, force us out of practice.I'm all for change, but to get everyone on board with it, we must address this issue of fear. And those who merely insult, scoff, and denigrate real efforts to better things should, I feel, make a proposal to address the fact that the system is broken and badly needs repair or replacement. To be negative and obstructive without alternative ideas is, I feel, disingenuous. Terry Petty, D.C. Recent ActivityVisit Your Group Give Back for GoodGet inspiredby a good cause.Y! ToolbarGet it Free!easy 1-click accessto your groups.Start a groupin 3 easy steps.Connect with others. . Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. See how.

[Guest guest]

Last December the Obama administration asked for small groups to get together and discuss health care reform. I put this out to the list serve to see if anyone wanted to put a group together. Guess how many responses I got - ZERO. s. fuchs dcSent from my iPhoneOn Jun 11, 2009, at 7:34 PM, "Terry Petty" <drglow@...> wrote:spinetreeqwestoffice (DOT) net; From: bluepearl2001csDate: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:52:47 -0400Subject: Re: Health Care Reform>>>>I'm completely baffled as to why so many folks are developing gangrene over the thought that health care coverage might become UNIVERSAL...that is to say FAIR. <<<<<Well, I think one reason is FEAR. Fear that we will as providers be forced to get paid a set low rate for what we do, a rate so low that we will not be able to make as much as we would like to for our efforts, or even worse, force us out of practice.I'm all for change, but to get everyone on board with it, we must address this issue of fear. And those who merely insult, scoff, and denigrate real efforts to better things should, I feel, make a proposal to address the fact that the system is broken and badly needs repair or replacement. To be negative and obstructive without alternative ideas is, I feel, disingenuous. Terry Petty, D.C. Recent ActivityVisit Your Group Give Back for GoodGet inspiredby a good cause.Y! ToolbarGet it Free!easy 1-click accessto your groups.Start a groupin 3 easy steps.Connect with others. . Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. See how.

[Guest guest]

Health care, eating and education are basic human rights in this country.

ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800

Health Care Reform

Unlike projects in your home and business, congress is planning to do a project without money to pay for it.Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured out how to pay for it.First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get on to planning on how to implement it. Much more fun.So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic, we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going to work.We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.Of course. The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be passed RIGHT AWAY! They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need to engage people in the debate.We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care. E. Abrahamson, D.C.Chiropractic physicianLake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic315 Second StreetLake Oswego, OR 97034503-635-6246Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com

[Guest guest]

Health care, eating and education are basic human rights in this country.

ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800

Health Care Reform

Unlike projects in your home and business, congress is planning to do a project without money to pay for it.Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured out how to pay for it.First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get on to planning on how to implement it. Much more fun.So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic, we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going to work.We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.Of course. The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be passed RIGHT AWAY! They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need to engage people in the debate.We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care. E. Abrahamson, D.C.Chiropractic physicianLake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic315 Second StreetLake Oswego, OR 97034503-635-6246Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com

[Guest guest]

Hear, hear!AnnetteOn Jun 12, 2009, at 9:16 AM, joe medlin wrote:Health care, eating and education are basic human rights in this country. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800 Health Care ReformUnlike projects in your home and business, congress is planning to do a project without money to pay for it.Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured out how to pay for it.First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get on to planning on how to implement it. Much more fun.So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic, we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going to work.We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.Of course. The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be passed RIGHT AWAY! They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need to engage people in the debate.We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care. E. Abrahamson, D.C.Chiropractic physicianLake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic315 Second StreetLake Oswego, OR 97034503-635-6246Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.comEmail message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com

[Guest guest]

Hear, hear!AnnetteOn Jun 12, 2009, at 9:16 AM, joe medlin wrote:Health care, eating and education are basic human rights in this country. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1607 NE Alberta StPDX, OR 97211503-788-6800 Health Care ReformUnlike projects in your home and business, congress is planning to do a project without money to pay for it.Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured out how to pay for it.First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get on to planning on how to implement it. Much more fun.So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic, we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going to work.We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.Of course. The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be passed RIGHT AWAY! They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need to engage people in the debate.We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care. E. Abrahamson, D.C.Chiropractic physicianLake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic315 Second StreetLake Oswego, OR 97034503-635-6246Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.comEmail message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com

[Guest guest]

I think this line of reasoning has served us well in the past, but needs some updating as we look to the future.The health care debate really speaks to who we are as a country. American's are very productive. We have bought into the idea that we deserve very little as workers and companies and executives deserve very much for the very important work they do. This leaves the average American in a very precarious position. We work longer ours than almost any other nation. As a result, we sleep less than most other nations. With no vacation, little time to spend with his family or newly born children, a food system that created "food-like" inexpensive things to eat, and an educational system that has been eviscerated of anything that

doesn't "teach to the test". Virtually no safety net. He may loose everything at any moment with a illness that is treatable, though costly. The number one cause of bankruptcy is not laziness, but illness.A child moves from the dependence of it's parents, to feel the joy of independence. But this is only a step to the maturity of interdependence. He sees that he actually still NEEDS help and support in some ways while having the maturity to function somewhat independently. I hope that this country will one day see the importance of interdependance and will loose some of the rugged indevidualism that dominates the public debate. I think it will make us a stronger nation. I think it will make for stronger families. Industries will benefit as they have in Canada from this infrastructure. A perfect example of this is Toyota's decision not to build a major plant in the US, but

instead build it in Canada. They stated helth cost and education of workers as the MAIN issue despite the fact that they know they could work these US employees to the bone with no vacations or little familiy or injury leave.For all the media says is wrong with the Canadian system, lets not forget that the man who first pushed to produce it was recently voted as the greatest Canadian.You can and should teach personal responsability. I think you can support Americans with basic services at the same time. I don't think that health care is a right. How we deliver and pay for it should be thought of in terms of what makes our nation, it's indeviduals and families stronger and healthier.That's all from NE Portland! Enjoy the weekend. Lindekugel, DCConcordia Chiropractic CenterPortland, Or.From: Kehr <jkehr@...> < >Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:29:36 PMSubject: RE: Health Care Reform

I’ve had enough and can’t

stand idle on this conversation. We have this thing called the

Declaration of Independence that if I’m not mistaken was put in place to

protect us from the government and other people. We founded this great

nation with the idea that any person can be responsible for his or her

future. Anyone can be successful and profit in their business as long as

they are not restricting other persons rights. We are also held

accountable for our actions and expected to bear self responsibility. America has a

great history of generosity, by choice, not by force. We already pay for

the child who has made poor choices, has two babies and no partner. We

already pay for the meth addict that can’t find a job. We are supposed to

pay for your father that smokes two packs a day, weighs three hundred pounds

and eats a diet of twinkies while on disability for diabetes. How does

this teach people about self responsibility? If a tornado ravaged his

house I would happily help him rebuild it. If that babies parents died I

would by choice help support them. I spent hours on the plane over the

weekend speaking with a Russian about politics. He states that his

country is moving more toward true freedom and capitalism. I stated that

our country continues to move toward socialism. We are becoming what Russia was. If you choose to be more generous with you

money that is your choice, but I would really appreciate having a choice about

what is happening with my money. These programs if you look at statistics

are all dysfunctional and encourage more people to be on welfare, let someone

else pay for it. What are we teaching our children? Health care is

a privilege, eating is a privilege; I support many charities and organizations

by choice. Please do not try to force me. Our country is a mess, the Euro is almost

1.5 times the dollar, it was almost equal a few years ago. Our health

care system is failing miserably, so let’s let the government take it

over and solve all the problems. I don’t blame this on Obama, or

Bush, I blame it on government interference. Let’s try holding the

government accountable for these failing systems. I appreciate that each one of you has an

opinion, but please don’t try to force it upon me. I live here for

freedom, not for any other reason. I will ask each one of you to hold

yourselves accountable and responsible. If you are going to build a wall

around our nation, please let me out first. Now can we talk about chiropractic as the

future of health care? I teach my patients self responsibility and I hope

you do to. Kehr

From:

@grou ps.com [mailto:] On Behalf Of bluepearl2001@ cs.com

Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:53

PM

spinetree@qwestoffi ce.net;

@grou ps.com

Subject: Re:

Health Care Reform

It doesn't require rocket science or recreating the wheel to

figure out how to insure ALL of us under a single payer program. MANY

countries have been doing that for decades and they do it well, despite all the

lies and chatter about how horrible their health care programs are and how we would all die if

we nationalized (SOCIALIZED- --OMG!!!! !!!)

medicine...

Well, isn't that how we already funds our schools, our

infrastructure, etc. We all pay TAXES--Hello! --to sustain those

programs and benefits that are in the best interest of ALL citizens, not just

the ones that can afford to pay for them.

I'm completely baffled as to why so many folks are developing gangrene

over the thought that health care coverage might become UNIVERSAL... that

is to say FAIR. And, yes, we will ALL end up paying for

it. All of us are already paying for the hundreds of thousands of

people who have NO insurance but who get treatment without the ability to pay

for it. And we end up paying for years of their care when they

become deathly or chronically ill after years of not having access to

healthcare. WE pay for them through both taxes and our own

skyrocketing, nickle-and-diming FOR PROFIT healthcare insurance premiums.

Most CIVILIZED countries have excellent working healthcare systems and their

physicians are doing quite well financially, thank you very much. And

their citizens are getting health care that is far better than ours,

outstripping us in both morbitity and mortality.

We flush billions of dollars down the drain for, at best, a

mediocre, stingy and shrinking care delivery system--except- -Oh,

geez, how could I forget!! That the drain empties right into the storm

sewer of the FOR PROFIT insurance companies that then turn around and funnel

millions (or is that billions?) of that money into the pockets of those

politicians whojust can't seem to figure out how to get the job

done. Hmmmm.

When we all finally 'get it' that our current FOR PROFIT system of healthcare

is what is rotten in Denmark (yet another country that decided a long time

ago that the RIGHT and INTELLIGENT thing to do is to provide ALL

their citizens with good healthcare, education, and dignified retirement)

and then DO something about that, the road to insuring all of our men, women

and children, regardless of their ability to pay, will become obvious.

It's a single payer, NOT FOR PROFIT system. It's just the right thing to

do.

Beam me up, y...

Ann , DC

Re: Health Care Reform

Although the medicare model is a bad model for patients and doctors,

I'm not sure thats how this is going to be run. There hopefully will be a plan

that benefits us all. If there are any physicians helping with this plan, i'm

positive that the medicare model isn't what they'll attempt to

mimic. Hopefully anyway, because you're right, that would not be good.

However, I believe it's about time we Think THink Think. Past

administrations just Forget Forget Forget....their campaign promises.

Addages such as "ohhh, that will never work" etc. are tiresome and

have prevented our country from progressing on many fronts, including health

care, electric cars, alternative fuels, foreign relations etc.

It's time we think of ways to improve this health delivery system in

this country. There will always be people who jump up and say "Wait!!! it

can't be done!" Seems this congress is bent on doing something.

ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chir opractic

1607 NE Alberta St

PDX, OR 97211

503-788-6800

Health Care Reform

Unlike projects in your home and business, congress is

planning to do a project without money to pay for it.

Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured

out how to pay for it.

First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found

out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!

Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable

giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.

Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for

free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.

Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get on to planning on how to

implement it. Much more fun.

So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic,

we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going

to work.

We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think

that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.

Of course.

The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.

Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable

but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be

passed RIGHT AWAY!

They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need

to engage people in the debate.

We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your

breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care.

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego , OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswe gochiro.com

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[Guest guest]

I think this line of reasoning has served us well in the past, but needs some updating as we look to the future.The health care debate really speaks to who we are as a country. American's are very productive. We have bought into the idea that we deserve very little as workers and companies and executives deserve very much for the very important work they do. This leaves the average American in a very precarious position. We work longer ours than almost any other nation. As a result, we sleep less than most other nations. With no vacation, little time to spend with his family or newly born children, a food system that created "food-like" inexpensive things to eat, and an educational system that has been eviscerated of anything that

doesn't "teach to the test". Virtually no safety net. He may loose everything at any moment with a illness that is treatable, though costly. The number one cause of bankruptcy is not laziness, but illness.A child moves from the dependence of it's parents, to feel the joy of independence. But this is only a step to the maturity of interdependence. He sees that he actually still NEEDS help and support in some ways while having the maturity to function somewhat independently. I hope that this country will one day see the importance of interdependance and will loose some of the rugged indevidualism that dominates the public debate. I think it will make us a stronger nation. I think it will make for stronger families. Industries will benefit as they have in Canada from this infrastructure. A perfect example of this is Toyota's decision not to build a major plant in the US, but

instead build it in Canada. They stated helth cost and education of workers as the MAIN issue despite the fact that they know they could work these US employees to the bone with no vacations or little familiy or injury leave.For all the media says is wrong with the Canadian system, lets not forget that the man who first pushed to produce it was recently voted as the greatest Canadian.You can and should teach personal responsability. I think you can support Americans with basic services at the same time. I don't think that health care is a right. How we deliver and pay for it should be thought of in terms of what makes our nation, it's indeviduals and families stronger and healthier.That's all from NE Portland! Enjoy the weekend. Lindekugel, DCConcordia Chiropractic CenterPortland, Or.From: Kehr <jkehr@...> < >Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:29:36 PMSubject: RE: Health Care Reform

I’ve had enough and can’t

stand idle on this conversation. We have this thing called the

Declaration of Independence that if I’m not mistaken was put in place to

protect us from the government and other people. We founded this great

nation with the idea that any person can be responsible for his or her

future. Anyone can be successful and profit in their business as long as

they are not restricting other persons rights. We are also held

accountable for our actions and expected to bear self responsibility. America has a

great history of generosity, by choice, not by force. We already pay for

the child who has made poor choices, has two babies and no partner. We

already pay for the meth addict that can’t find a job. We are supposed to

pay for your father that smokes two packs a day, weighs three hundred pounds

and eats a diet of twinkies while on disability for diabetes. How does

this teach people about self responsibility? If a tornado ravaged his

house I would happily help him rebuild it. If that babies parents died I

would by choice help support them. I spent hours on the plane over the

weekend speaking with a Russian about politics. He states that his

country is moving more toward true freedom and capitalism. I stated that

our country continues to move toward socialism. We are becoming what Russia was. If you choose to be more generous with you

money that is your choice, but I would really appreciate having a choice about

what is happening with my money. These programs if you look at statistics

are all dysfunctional and encourage more people to be on welfare, let someone

else pay for it. What are we teaching our children? Health care is

a privilege, eating is a privilege; I support many charities and organizations

by choice. Please do not try to force me. Our country is a mess, the Euro is almost

1.5 times the dollar, it was almost equal a few years ago. Our health

care system is failing miserably, so let’s let the government take it

over and solve all the problems. I don’t blame this on Obama, or

Bush, I blame it on government interference. Let’s try holding the

government accountable for these failing systems. I appreciate that each one of you has an

opinion, but please don’t try to force it upon me. I live here for

freedom, not for any other reason. I will ask each one of you to hold

yourselves accountable and responsible. If you are going to build a wall

around our nation, please let me out first. Now can we talk about chiropractic as the

future of health care? I teach my patients self responsibility and I hope

you do to. Kehr

From:

@grou ps.com [mailto:] On Behalf Of bluepearl2001@ cs.com

Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:53

PM

spinetree@qwestoffi ce.net;

@grou ps.com

Subject: Re:

Health Care Reform

It doesn't require rocket science or recreating the wheel to

figure out how to insure ALL of us under a single payer program. MANY

countries have been doing that for decades and they do it well, despite all the

lies and chatter about how horrible their health care programs are and how we would all die if

we nationalized (SOCIALIZED- --OMG!!!! !!!)

medicine...

Well, isn't that how we already funds our schools, our

infrastructure, etc. We all pay TAXES--Hello! --to sustain those

programs and benefits that are in the best interest of ALL citizens, not just

the ones that can afford to pay for them.

I'm completely baffled as to why so many folks are developing gangrene

over the thought that health care coverage might become UNIVERSAL... that

is to say FAIR. And, yes, we will ALL end up paying for

it. All of us are already paying for the hundreds of thousands of

people who have NO insurance but who get treatment without the ability to pay

for it. And we end up paying for years of their care when they

become deathly or chronically ill after years of not having access to

healthcare. WE pay for them through both taxes and our own

skyrocketing, nickle-and-diming FOR PROFIT healthcare insurance premiums.

Most CIVILIZED countries have excellent working healthcare systems and their

physicians are doing quite well financially, thank you very much. And

their citizens are getting health care that is far better than ours,

outstripping us in both morbitity and mortality.

We flush billions of dollars down the drain for, at best, a

mediocre, stingy and shrinking care delivery system--except- -Oh,

geez, how could I forget!! That the drain empties right into the storm

sewer of the FOR PROFIT insurance companies that then turn around and funnel

millions (or is that billions?) of that money into the pockets of those

politicians whojust can't seem to figure out how to get the job

done. Hmmmm.

When we all finally 'get it' that our current FOR PROFIT system of healthcare

is what is rotten in Denmark (yet another country that decided a long time

ago that the RIGHT and INTELLIGENT thing to do is to provide ALL

their citizens with good healthcare, education, and dignified retirement)

and then DO something about that, the road to insuring all of our men, women

and children, regardless of their ability to pay, will become obvious.

It's a single payer, NOT FOR PROFIT system. It's just the right thing to

do.

Beam me up, y...

Ann , DC

Re: Health Care Reform

Although the medicare model is a bad model for patients and doctors,

I'm not sure thats how this is going to be run. There hopefully will be a plan

that benefits us all. If there are any physicians helping with this plan, i'm

positive that the medicare model isn't what they'll attempt to

mimic. Hopefully anyway, because you're right, that would not be good.

However, I believe it's about time we Think THink Think. Past

administrations just Forget Forget Forget....their campaign promises.

Addages such as "ohhh, that will never work" etc. are tiresome and

have prevented our country from progressing on many fronts, including health

care, electric cars, alternative fuels, foreign relations etc.

It's time we think of ways to improve this health delivery system in

this country. There will always be people who jump up and say "Wait!!! it

can't be done!" Seems this congress is bent on doing something.

ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chir opractic

1607 NE Alberta St

PDX, OR 97211

503-788-6800

Health Care Reform

Unlike projects in your home and business, congress is

planning to do a project without money to pay for it.

Congress wants to have all Americans guaranteed health care but has not figured

out how to pay for it.

First they were going to pay for it with Cap and Trade money. But they found

out that 25 states get their electricity from gas and coal. DOUGH!

Then they were going to pay for it by cutting the tax breaks from charitable

giving by the most affluent people who give the most. Not accepted.

Now they are sitting like Winnie the Pooh trying to figure out how to pay for

free health care by...thinking. Think, think, think.

Forget that paying for it stuff. Let’s just get on to planning on how to

implement it. Much more fun.

So, if we as doctors don’t have enough money to open a satellite clinic,

we can have a lot of fun spending all our time planning how great it is going

to work.

We have seen the horror of government health care in Medicare, yet we think

that if we multiply it by 8X, it will be better.

Of course.

The stimulus package was passed as an emergency with almost no one reading it.

Several months later only 5% of it has been spent. That may be understandable

but it shows us that they were wrong or lying when they said it needed to be

passed RIGHT AWAY!

They will try to pass health care reform without due consideration and we need

to engage people in the debate.

We need to help taxpayers, congress people, the media (don’t hold your

breath) know how bad Medicare has been as an example of national health care.

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego , OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswe gochiro.com

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