RE: HRT

December 1, 2004

To everyone who wanted to know:

Once I got my files on HRT in order, I decided I never wanted to

tangle with them again, and I'd better save the organized

consolidation onto a couple of web pages!

(My computer is a virtual jungle of information.)

The pages are linked together and the last page lists most of my

medical sources for the first two pages:

http://infowoman.freewebpage.org/index.htm

http://infowoman.freewebpage.org/HRT.html

http://infowoman.freewebpage.org/HRTreferences.html

I'll also send a copy of the this to those of you who specifically

asked, via email, in case you miss this message.

I hope it helps. (Ah..next time someone wants to know, all I have to

do is post a link!)

December 1, 2004

Thanks . The information is very helpfull.

>

> To everyone who wanted to know:

>

> Once I got my files on HRT in order, I decided I never wanted to

> tangle with them again, and I'd better save the organized

> consolidation onto a couple of web pages!

> (My computer is a virtual jungle of information.)

>

> The pages are linked together and the last page lists most of my

> medical sources for the first two pages:

>

> http://infowoman.freewebpage.org/index.htm

> http://infowoman.freewebpage.org/HRT.html

> http://infowoman.freewebpage.org/HRTreferences.html

>

> I'll also send a copy of the this to those of you who specifically

> asked, via email, in case you miss this message.

> I hope it helps. (Ah..next time someone wants to know, all I have

to

> do is post a link!)

>

December 6, 2004

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 02:38:01 -0000, you wrote:

>

>I'll round up the info your wife wants to know, Retro, along with

>sources, and send it to you privately. I'm always glad to spread the

>word to other women about effective and safe HRT, since this

>information is unlikely to be forthcoming from the gyn community.

>(If it steers a few other women off the 10 yr downhill path I was

>directed onto, it is worth the time.)

Many thanks. You're a peach!

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

January 22, 2005

Hey--you still have to pass those stones--just smaller ones. Don't mean to

be a downer, but don't want you to go into that procedure thinking it makes

the stones disappear.

I feel really good about the holistic health care center I found because

they just explain things to you based on blood tests and let you make the

decision about supplements. They aren't pushy at all. I am a true partner

in my health care.

Ks Di

[ ] HRT

>

> Carolyn--

>

> No apology necessary. Your detailed explanations are wonderful and I

don't mind the length at all. I think the Dr you were trying to remember is

Weil. I think he is marvelous and makes more sense than anybody

doing alternative medicine. I would really like to be his patient because I

need guidance and there are so many out there that practice and don't know

what they are talking about. I think there is merit in alternative medicine

but one of my problems with it is there aren't enough really good

practitioners and I need help sorting things out. For instance, I have

horrible allergic reactions to many herbs and because you never know what is

in them I can't risk taking the combinations that are available. My other

problem with most of them is they are like people with new religion. So

full of fervor that they can't see the forrest for the trees. I think Dr

Weil would treat the whole person and make excellent suggestions. (BTW I

have nothing against religion)

>

> As far as HRT, I think all meds come with risks and I evaluate those risks

and then make my decisions based on what I need help with. Don't you think

that the PA meds are as dangerous, if not more so, than HRT?

>

> I have a history of kidney stones so I guess I have to decide if breaking

bones is worse than passing stones? What a nice bunch of choice we end up

with. Actually I try to get a lot of calcium from green leafy things, dairy

and supplements. My mom has osteoporosis and I know firsthand how it can

bring your quality of life to a screeching halt in a heartbeat and I sure

don't want that on top of everything else.

>

> I think the other thing that those of us with PA have to be careful about

is blaming everything on PA. If I didn't have PA I would probably go to the

doctor when I have chest pains, headaches, breathing difficulties, etc. but

I usually just think it is PA related and don't bother. I am rethinking

that one and trying to get things checked out.

>

> Anyway, please keep adding to this conversation. Thanks, Cheri :-))

>

January 23, 2005

>

> Hi Carolyn and Cheri,

>

> Now I'm in brain fog.lol! Are you saying that Dr. Weil thinks

that

> the natural hormones are safer? What " same conclusion " did he and

the

> traditional medical community reach?

>

> thanks,

> Marti Dear Marti: When I earlier mentioned the " culprit "

being non natural souces of estrogen I should have included more

specific data. In that my answers are so long already, I find that

it is sometimes more effective to approach futher details as

questions or interest as they " pop up " . One of the most commonly

prescribed forms of estrogen or estrogen combined forms for years

has been Premarin. Premarin in addition to many other like

estrogens have been obatined from animal sources, i.e. bovine (or

cow). It was estrogen in this group that was being studied that

came to a halt after alarming data concluding links to a variety of

potentially life threatening occurances such as heart attacks and

strokes. There is a fairly new term being used to refer to

estrogen that is obtained from human sources and this

is " Biologically Identical " This is for the most part, without

arguement the preferred choice of not only estrogen but has also be

the choice of insulin prescribing physicians for several years now.

Insulin was once obtained form cows and though it was a life saver,

the preferred choice now is (in many cases) " Humulin " with it's

source being from humans. A example of a biolgically identical form

of estrogen would be Estace and Dr. Weil even includes this example

on his site. There are choices that we have, including the less

risky creams. All in all, gather your questions and approach your

gynnie. If you wish to do research on the net to decide what

questions to ask your Dr. the following should be helpful: When I

typed in drandrewweil.com into google I got nothing. When I typed

in dr.andrewweil without the dot com I was led to

andrewweil.com " the official web site " and was able to refresh

myself with info. As most of us know the internet can be a

blessing or a nightmare. It was easy to get distracted on Dr. Weils

site and find out that he is not a advocate of Enbrel other than as

a last resort. Most will tell you tath PA requires early and

agressive treatment to forstall it's potentially disabling affects.

So yellow flag here. Don't take a step back. If your'e interested

I can also endorse (with zero finicial personal interest) Dr.

Lessman's site. Many of us know him from Home Shopping Network. It

takes some real detective work to bypasss HSN and find out the

behind the scenes on this amazing and empassioned man's journey into

vitamins and supplements. I admire not only his passion and risk

taking but he has been light years ahead of the others in his

research. One of his many degrees is actually in Biochemistry.

What is useful to me on his site is very detailed info regarding his

supplements that I can forward to my Dr's for their considration.

Hope this has been useful.

[Editor's Note: Dr. Weill may not be an advocate of Enbrel because it is grown

in mice while Humira is derived from humans. Kathy F.]

January 25, 2005

---

Hi Ks Di,

With the procedure I'm having with the Kidney stones being broke up-I

still have a stent/stint (not sure about the spelling) in that was

put in during a cysto. that was done to remove my latest painful

kidney stone- anyhow...with the stent in they will pass through that

after they are broken up (hopefully anyhow!). Just having them out

will be great after what I've been through. I don't know if that is

what you were talking about that they still needed to come out.

God Bless, Sue.

In , " Costello Family "

<costello@m...> wrote:

>

> Hey--you still have to pass those stones--just smaller ones. Don't

mean to

> be a downer, but don't want you to go into that procedure thinking

it makes

> the stones disappear.

>

> I feel really good about the holistic health care center I found

because

> they just explain things to you based on blood tests and let you

make the

> decision about supplements. They aren't pushy at all. I am a true

partner

> in my health care.

>

> Ks Di

> [ ] HRT

>

> >

> > Carolyn--

> >

> > No apology necessary. Your detailed explanations are wonderful

and I

> don't mind the length at all. I think the Dr you were trying to

remember is

> Weil. I think he is marvelous and makes more sense than

anybody

> doing alternative medicine. I would really like to be his patient

because I

> need guidance and there are so many out there that practice and

don't know

> what they are talking about. I think there is merit in alternative

medicine

> but one of my problems with it is there aren't enough really good

> practitioners and I need help sorting things out. For instance, I

have

> horrible allergic reactions to many herbs and because you never

know what is

> in them I can't risk taking the combinations that are available.

My other

> problem with most of them is they are like people with new

religion. So

> full of fervor that they can't see the forrest for the trees. I

think Dr

> Weil would treat the whole person and make excellent suggestions.

(BTW I

> have nothing against religion)

> >

> > As far as HRT, I think all meds come with risks and I evaluate

those risks

> and then make my decisions based on what I need help with. Don't

you think

> that the PA meds are as dangerous, if not more so, than HRT?

> >

> > I have a history of kidney stones so I guess I have to decide if

breaking

> bones is worse than passing stones? What a nice bunch of choice we

end up

> with. Actually I try to get a lot of calcium from green leafy

things, dairy

> and supplements. My mom has osteoporosis and I know firsthand how

it can

> bring your quality of life to a screeching halt in a heartbeat and

I sure

> don't want that on top of everything else.

> >

> > I think the other thing that those of us with PA have to be

careful about

> is blaming everything on PA. If I didn't have PA I would probably

go to the

> doctor when I have chest pains, headaches, breathing difficulties,

etc. but

> I usually just think it is PA related and don't bother. I am

rethinking

> that one and trying to get things checked out.

> >

> > Anyway, please keep adding to this conversation. Thanks, Cheri :-

))

> >

January 26, 2005

I think I'm glad you have that option! It sound pretty serious. My sister

just had to pass hers the usual way after the stone was broken. Her's was

already " in route " so the stint probably wasn't an option.

Good luck to you.

Ks Di

[ ] Re: HRT

>

> ---

> Hi Ks Di,

>

> With the procedure I'm having with the Kidney stones being broke up-I

> still have a stent/stint (not sure about the spelling) in that was

> put in during a cysto. that was done to remove my latest painful

> kidney stone- anyhow...with the stent in they will pass through that

> after they are broken up (hopefully anyhow!). Just having them out

> will be great after what I've been through. I don't know if that is

> what you were talking about that they still needed to come out.

>

> God Bless, Sue.

December 11, 2005

I suspect the steroids didn't have a major effect.

However, I doubt the chiro did anything

more than push you over the brink....

a brink you were soon to go over any way.

As we age, the extracellular matrix crosslinks,

yellows (if examined at death), and stiffens.

A stiff disk is a brittle disk. Cartilage and

disks are composed of extracellular matrix

as I recall.

>

> I am in my early 40's and see my PCP regularly and receive

> testosterone injections every two weeks (300MG)I feel ok with this,

> except for a little decline in energy around day 10. Prior to this,

I

> went through an on-line consultation and was treated by an out of

> state consulting place which was supposed to have a panel of expert

> doctors who prescribe HRT therapy.(Bad idea, I know!!)The place was

> shut down for various reasons. I was prescribed mostly compounded

> testosterone (six weeks of it oral form-Halotestin), but also had

> been prescribed nandrolone for about five months and stanozolol for

> about six weeks. I since found that these should not be prescribed

at

> all for HRT.

>

> My question is does anyone know if any of these substances I took

> could cause any adverse effects such as weakening of the spinal

> disks. The reason I ask is that I received a severe injury

(ruptured

> disk at the T-6/7 level) during chiropractic treatment a few months

> ago and had major surgery to correct the problem.I am in pending

> litigation over this issue and fear that my HRT may be brought up

as

> an issue as I am an avid weight lifter. They will probably try to

> portray me as a steroid user who was injured from lifting too much.

> This is not the case at all. I have hypogonadism which is why I am

on

> testosterone. I have not heard of any testosterone or similar

> substances having any effect on the spine structures.

>

> Any advice is welcome.....Thanks

>

> R

>

December 11, 2005

Thank you for your reply. I suppose you may be right about the brittle disks.

I have a difficult time remembering that I am not 25 anymore. I still enjoy the

weight training, but I am trying to recover after this injury.

I have been reading the posts concerning estrogen inhibitors. I may talk to my

doctor about trying this also. I find at times I tend to hold a little fat

around the outer chest area.

Concernig these on-line clinics/pharmacies offering HRT therapy-Why are they

allowed to operate at all if the doctor can't prescribe prescriptions to out of

state patients? At least I now have a dependable PCP.

Thanks All -I enjoy reading these posts.

Rick

betaine_hcl <no_reply > wrote: I suspect the steroids didn't

have a major effect.

However, I doubt the chiro did anything

more than push you over the brink....

a brink you were soon to go over any way.

As we age, the extracellular matrix crosslinks,

yellows (if examined at death), and stiffens.

A stiff disk is a brittle disk. Cartilage and

disks are composed of extracellular matrix

as I recall.

>

> I am in my early 40's and see my PCP regularly and receive

> testosterone injections every two weeks (300MG)I feel ok with this,

> except for a little decline in energy around day 10. Prior to this,

I

> went through an on-line consultation and was treated by an out of

> state consulting place which was supposed to have a panel of expert

> doctors who prescribe HRT therapy.(Bad idea, I know!!)The place was

> shut down for various reasons. I was prescribed mostly compounded

> testosterone (six weeks of it oral form-Halotestin), but also had

> been prescribed nandrolone for about five months and stanozolol for

> about six weeks. I since found that these should not be prescribed

at

> all for HRT.

>

> My question is does anyone know if any of these substances I took

> could cause any adverse effects such as weakening of the spinal

> disks. The reason I ask is that I received a severe injury

(ruptured

> disk at the T-6/7 level) during chiropractic treatment a few months

> ago and had major surgery to correct the problem.I am in pending

> litigation over this issue and fear that my HRT may be brought up

as

> an issue as I am an avid weight lifter. They will probably try to

> portray me as a steroid user who was injured from lifting too much.

> This is not the case at all. I have hypogonadism which is why I am

on

> testosterone. I have not heard of any testosterone or similar

> substances having any effect on the spine structures.

>

> Any advice is welcome.....Thanks

>

> R

>

December 12, 2005

I understand about the weight training as I did it

until age 40.

I only talked once to one of these clinics representives.

I was still getting checked out. And yes I am low

down in 340 to 380 ng/dl as to testosterone as I recall.

Also, my estrogen level was

low. The rep indicated they were

willing to work with a local Doc. I wonder

if they would recommend someone??? The rep was sure

happy to talk though he was so much in sales mode

that I felt like talking to a boiler room commodities

broker.

......... Dwight

-- In , R E <intel_ice@y...> wrote:

>

> Thank you for your reply. I suppose you may be right about the

brittle disks. I have a difficult time remembering that I am not 25

anymore. I still enjoy the weight training, but I am trying to

recover after this injury.

>

> I have been reading the posts concerning estrogen inhibitors. I

may talk to my doctor about trying this also. I find at times I tend

to hold a little fat around the outer chest area.

>

> Concernig these on-line clinics/pharmacies offering HRT therapy-

Why are they allowed to operate at all if the doctor can't prescribe

prescriptions to out of state patients? At least I now have a

dependable PCP.

>

> Thanks All -I enjoy reading these posts.

>

> Rick

>

> betaine_hcl <no_reply > wrote: I suspect the

steroids didn't have a major effect.

> However, I doubt the chiro did anything

> more than push you over the brink....

> a brink you were soon to go over any way.

> As we age, the extracellular matrix crosslinks,

> yellows (if examined at death), and stiffens.

> A stiff disk is a brittle disk. Cartilage and

> disks are composed of extracellular matrix

> as I recall.

>

> >

> > I am in my early 40's and see my PCP regularly and receive

> > testosterone injections every two weeks (300MG)I feel ok with

this,

> > except for a little decline in energy around day 10. Prior to

this,

> I

> > went through an on-line consultation and was treated by an out of

> > state consulting place which was supposed to have a panel of

expert

> > doctors who prescribe HRT therapy.(Bad idea, I know!!)The place

was

> > shut down for various reasons. I was prescribed mostly compounded

> > testosterone (six weeks of it oral form-Halotestin), but also had

> > been prescribed nandrolone for about five months and stanozolol

for

> > about six weeks. I since found that these should not be

prescribed

> at

> > all for HRT.

> >

> > My question is does anyone know if any of these substances I took

> > could cause any adverse effects such as weakening of the spinal

> > disks. The reason I ask is that I received a severe injury

> (ruptured

> > disk at the T-6/7 level) during chiropractic treatment a few

months

> > ago and had major surgery to correct the problem.I am in pending

> > litigation over this issue and fear that my HRT may be brought up

> as

> > an issue as I am an avid weight lifter. They will probably try to

> > portray me as a steroid user who was injured from lifting too

much.

> > This is not the case at all. I have hypogonadism which is why I

am

> on

> > testosterone. I have not heard of any testosterone or similar

> > substances having any effect on the spine structures.

> >

> > Any advice is welcome.....Thanks

> >

> > R

> >

>

December 12, 2005

A long time ago the Gov. put a stop to them and the sites are old. You can

work with some Dr.'s they charge a fee and will work with your DR. over the

phone. One is a dam good Dr. .

http://www.allthingsmale.com/

If you go there read his TRT:A Recipe for Success and his HCG Update. I

printed this out and gave it to my DR. and told him I need to try this. This

time last yr. I had very bad pain in my joints and muscles. My back was so back

I could hardly walk. I started on Dr. 's treatment with my Dr. the first of

this yr. Today I am down 65 lbs doing Weight Watchers program and I walk one

hr. a day and work out 2 hrs. in the gym 3 days a week. I now have very little

back pain and my joints and muscles are back to normal. In my case it was the

gels they did not get my levels up high enough or did not get the T to my joints

and muscles. After starting on shots every week my pain started getting much

better and fast.

Phil

R E <intel_ice@...> wrote:

Thank you for your reply. I suppose you may be right about the brittle disks.

I have a difficult time remembering that I am not 25 anymore. I still enjoy the

weight training, but I am trying to recover after this injury.

I have been reading the posts concerning estrogen inhibitors. I may talk to my

doctor about trying this also. I find at times I tend to hold a little fat

around the outer chest area.

Concernig these on-line clinics/pharmacies offering HRT therapy-Why are they

allowed to operate at all if the doctor can't prescribe prescriptions to out of

state patients? At least I now have a dependable PCP.

Thanks All -I enjoy reading these posts.

Rick

betaine_hcl <no_reply > wrote: I suspect the steroids didn't

have a major effect.

However, I doubt the chiro did anything

more than push you over the brink....

a brink you were soon to go over any way.

As we age, the extracellular matrix crosslinks,

yellows (if examined at death), and stiffens.

A stiff disk is a brittle disk. Cartilage and

disks are composed of extracellular matrix

as I recall.

>

> I am in my early 40's and see my PCP regularly and receive

> testosterone injections every two weeks (300MG)I feel ok with this,

> except for a little decline in energy around day 10. Prior to this,

I

> went through an on-line consultation and was treated by an out of

> state consulting place which was supposed to have a panel of expert

> doctors who prescribe HRT therapy.(Bad idea, I know!!)The place was

> shut down for various reasons. I was prescribed mostly compounded

> testosterone (six weeks of it oral form-Halotestin), but also had

> been prescribed nandrolone for about five months and stanozolol for

> about six weeks. I since found that these should not be prescribed

at

> all for HRT.

>

> My question is does anyone know if any of these substances I took

> could cause any adverse effects such as weakening of the spinal

> disks. The reason I ask is that I received a severe injury

(ruptured

> disk at the T-6/7 level) during chiropractic treatment a few months

> ago and had major surgery to correct the problem.I am in pending

> litigation over this issue and fear that my HRT may be brought up

as

> an issue as I am an avid weight lifter. They will probably try to

> portray me as a steroid user who was injured from lifting too much.

> This is not the case at all. I have hypogonadism which is why I am

on

> testosterone. I have not heard of any testosterone or similar

> substances having any effect on the spine structures.

>

> Any advice is welcome.....Thanks

>

> R

>

December 12, 2005

I'd suspect low bone density from low T from before you started TRT.

Did you ever get a bone density check?

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:02:17 -0000, you wrote:

>I suspect the steroids didn't have a major effect.

>However, I doubt the chiro did anything

>more than push you over the brink....

>a brink you were soon to go over any way.

>As we age, the extracellular matrix crosslinks,

>yellows (if examined at death), and stiffens.

>A stiff disk is a brittle disk. Cartilage and

>disks are composed of extracellular matrix

>as I recall.

>

>>

>> I am in my early 40's and see my PCP regularly and receive

>> testosterone injections every two weeks (300MG)I feel ok with this,

>> except for a little decline in energy around day 10. Prior to this,

>I

>> went through an on-line consultation and was treated by an out of

>> state consulting place which was supposed to have a panel of expert

>> doctors who prescribe HRT therapy.(Bad idea, I know!!)The place was

>> shut down for various reasons. I was prescribed mostly compounded

>> testosterone (six weeks of it oral form-Halotestin), but also had

>> been prescribed nandrolone for about five months and stanozolol for

>> about six weeks. I since found that these should not be prescribed

>at

>> all for HRT.

>>

>> My question is does anyone know if any of these substances I took

>> could cause any adverse effects such as weakening of the spinal

>> disks. The reason I ask is that I received a severe injury

>(ruptured

>> disk at the T-6/7 level) during chiropractic treatment a few months

>> ago and had major surgery to correct the problem.I am in pending

>> litigation over this issue and fear that my HRT may be brought up

>as

>> an issue as I am an avid weight lifter. They will probably try to

>> portray me as a steroid user who was injured from lifting too much.

>> This is not the case at all. I have hypogonadism which is why I am

>on

>> testosterone. I have not heard of any testosterone or similar

>> substances having any effect on the spine structures.

>>

>> Any advice is welcome.....Thanks

>>

>> R

>>

>

December 13, 2005

No, I never had a bone density test. My neurosurgeon who performed my surgery

did say that my spinal coloum had a narrow canal, which may have contributed to

the disk making more of a buldge into the main cord itself when my injury

occurred. I will talk to my doctor about a bone density test. Does TRT help this

problem or do I need some other therapy for this?

Thanks,

Rick

retrogrouch@... wrote: I'd suspect low bone density from low T from

before you started TRT.

Did you ever get a bone density check?

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:02:17 -0000, you wrote:

>I suspect the steroids didn't have a major effect.

>However, I doubt the chiro did anything

>more than push you over the brink....

>a brink you were soon to go over any way.

>As we age, the extracellular matrix crosslinks,

>yellows (if examined at death), and stiffens.

>A stiff disk is a brittle disk. Cartilage and

>disks are composed of extracellular matrix

>as I recall.

>

>>

>> I am in my early 40's and see my PCP regularly and receive

>> testosterone injections every two weeks (300MG)I feel ok with this,

>> except for a little decline in energy around day 10. Prior to this,

>I

>> went through an on-line consultation and was treated by an out of

>> state consulting place which was supposed to have a panel of expert

>> doctors who prescribe HRT therapy.(Bad idea, I know!!)The place was

>> shut down for various reasons. I was prescribed mostly compounded

>> testosterone (six weeks of it oral form-Halotestin), but also had

>> been prescribed nandrolone for about five months and stanozolol for

>> about six weeks. I since found that these should not be prescribed

>at

>> all for HRT.

>>

>> My question is does anyone know if any of these substances I took

>> could cause any adverse effects such as weakening of the spinal

>> disks. The reason I ask is that I received a severe injury

>(ruptured

>> disk at the T-6/7 level) during chiropractic treatment a few months

>> ago and had major surgery to correct the problem.I am in pending

>> litigation over this issue and fear that my HRT may be brought up

>as

>> an issue as I am an avid weight lifter. They will probably try to

>> portray me as a steroid user who was injured from lifting too much.

>> This is not the case at all. I have hypogonadism which is why I am

>on

>> testosterone. I have not heard of any testosterone or similar

>> substances having any effect on the spine structures.

>>

>> Any advice is welcome.....Thanks

>>

>> R

>>

>

December 13, 2005

Thanks Phil. I will go to this site for some information. I have a pretty good

PCP who I go to for my therapy, but he will only give me a shot once every two

weeks at a dose of 300mg. This works pretty well except for the tapering off at

about day 10. I feel a little tired then. My doctor suggests a gel to use from

day 10-14 between injections. Will this work?

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: A long time ago the Gov. put a

stop to them and the sites are old. You can work with some Dr.'s they charge a

fee and will work with your DR. over the phone. One is a dam good Dr. .