Headaches

October 8, 2005

She seems to be very in tune with her body and sensitive. Maybe her

system is not ready for the unda numbers at this time. Other routes to

consider, just starting with diet and Cop/dry skin brushing, green

drinks maybe add in a gemmo for kidney/liver and whatever other tools

you have. Build up her system a bit and gently work on the liver.

Flower essence for anger/liver sounds very supportive as well,

addressing what is behind the anger, it has to be more than just liver

congestion, underlying anger is present. You could add in some

palliative treatments for her HA in the mean time, Mag Phos cell salts.

Then try coming back to the Unda numbers in time. I agree liver and

endocrine need addressing. You could also try a different combo of

numbers maybe focused on a bit more nervous system or endocrine

combined with the liver, depending on how the patient presents, but I

still think a bit gentler to start is a good place to begin.

ND

Seattle WA

--- angela <dancingc@...> wrote:

> Greetings all.

>

> I have a 55 year old woman who has severe headaches. Onset was ~5

> years ago when she started menopause. She started the rolfing

> series about 6 years ago. She was then seeing an excellent DC at

> the time (I personally know him and his work) who determined via

> x-ray that she had some issues with her neck alignment and he started

> manipulation. She has also tried cranio-sacral which did not help.

> The HA came on sometime around the same time as menopause - it is not

> a clear timeline. She has done extensive " cleansing " over the years

> with herbalists; had the EAV test several years ago and follows the

> results.

>

> Initially onset included dizziness; nausea, head pounding, starting

> at the vertex; eyes sensitive to light. She has been taking

> Nortriptyline which does decrease the severity but does not stop

> them. She has been a dental lab technician for over 20 years so

> there is some toxic chemical exposure. Some sensitivity to odors.

> Obviously her liver is taxed.

>

> She has had gas for years with certain food combos and has taken

> digestive enzymes for years to help this issue. Some acid reflux

> helped with 6 months of prilosec.

>

> A fairly healthy diet. Very supportive and loving relationship with

> her husband.

>

> So I started her with BTGs which she has been enthusiastic about,

> including COP. We then started with the basic 1, 20, 243 to start

> working with her liver - 5 gtts TID. She is a flower essence

> practitioner and does a great deal of muscle testing of herself - she

> tested herself and decided to reduce her SIG to 3 gtts TID from the

> beginning. One week after beginning the UNDAs she called me to say

> that she felt like she is back where she was when she started

> menopause: extremely irritable and angry. We reduced her dosage to

> 3 gtts BID. She then called a few days later saying that she took a

> few days off from the UNDAs, calmed down and then resumed 2 of them

> at 3 gtts BID - IMMEDIATELY her irritability returned and she felt

> like " killing " someone. We are going to include some acupuncture to

> get this liver energy moving beginning of the week.

>

> So I have a few thoughts and questions:

>

> Should I assume that her emunctories are not working as well as we

> thought and stop the UNDAs for now until they are moving along

> better? What else can I add to accomplish this? She is doing the

> BTGs and eats a fairly clean diet. Should I add in some chelidonium

> plex? And thoughts or input would be greatly appreciated.

>

> P. Lambert, ND, L.Ac, LMT

> Naturopathic Physician

> Licensed Acupuncturist

> Your sacred place is where you find yourself again and again. ph

__________________________________

- PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.

October 13, 2005

Hi ,

She sounds pretty toxic. I would say chelidonium plex definetly. Plus Gammadyn Mo for her chemical overload and to help liver detox. She would probably have an easier time by opening the emuncturies more with #2, 20, and 258 to catabolize chemicals and then you can go back to the liver numbers. Acupuncture also sounds like a great idea, (GB20, GV20, LI4, TB5, GB34, Sp6, Liv3 etc.)

Keivan Jinnah, ND, LAc.

Portland, OR

headaches

Greetings all. I have a 55 year old woman who has severe headaches. Onset was ~5 years ago when she started menopause. She started the rolfing series about 6 years ago. She was then seeing an excellent DC at the time (I personally know him and his work) who determined via x-ray that she had some issues with her neck alignment and he started manipulation. She has also tried cranio-sacral which did not help. The HA came on sometime around the same time as menopause - it is not a clear timeline. She has done extensive "cleansing" over the years with herbalists; had the EAV test several years ago and follows the results. Initially onset included dizziness; nausea, head pounding, starting at the vertex; eyes sensitive to light. She has been taking Nortriptyline which does decrease the severity but does not stop them. She has been a dental lab technician for over 20 years so there is some toxic chemical exposure. Some sensitivity to odors. Obviously her liver is taxed. She has had gas for years with certain food combos and has taken digestive enzymes for years to help this issue. Some acid reflux helped with 6 months of prilosec. A fairly healthy diet. Very supportive and loving relationship with her husband. So I started her with BTGs which she has been enthusiastic about, including COP. We then started with the basic 1, 20, 243 to start working with her liver - 5 gtts TID. She is a flower essence practitioner and does a great deal of muscle testing of herself - she tested herself and decided to reduce her SIG to 3 gtts TID from the beginning. One week after beginning the UNDAs she called me to say that she felt like she is back where she was when she started menopause: extremely irritable and angry. We reduced her dosage to 3 gtts BID. She then called a few days later saying that she took a few days off from the UNDAs, calmed down and then resumed 2 of them at 3 gtts BID - IMMEDIATELY her irritability returned and she felt like "killing" someone. We are going to include some acupuncture to get this liver energy moving beginning of the week. So I have a few thoughts and questions: Should I assume that her emunctories are not working as well as we thought and stop the UNDAs for now until they are moving along better? What else can I add to accomplish this? She is doing the BTGs and eats a fairly clean diet. Should I add in some chelidonium plex? And thoughts or input would be greatly appreciated. P. Lambert, ND, L.Ac, LMTNaturopathic PhysicianLicensed AcupuncturistYour sacred place is where you find yourself again and again. ph

January 21, 2006

In a message dated 1/21/2006 11:53:34 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

writes:

No fever...... just this pretty sudden onset headache. Any ideas? At

what point do you worry about a headache like this? He's had post IVIG

headaches before where he has thrown up, but never one that wasn;t post-IVIG

where

he's thrown up from the pain.

Anyone ever deal with this before?

Hi Pattie,

This sounds just like what my son, Trayvon, goes through several times a

year. We were given the diagnosis of Migraine (one doctor said that he had two

types, classic and abdominal). I have always treated them the same way and

it seems to do the trick for us. 400mg of Ibuprofen given with a can of pepsi

or other heavily caffinated drink. We hot pack the tummy and cold pack the

head. It takes the motrin and caffein about 20 - 30 minutes to do the trick.

We also found that eating certain things (specifically, packaged meats ie.

pepperoni, salami, bolonga, etc.) definitely triggers an episode. After

several trips to the ER, we have finally accepted that they are, in fact,

migraines. LOL

I am sooo sorry to hear that your little one is dealing with them. It's

awful to watch Trayvon go through the pain and the vomiting but at least we

seem

to have a plan in place that helps relatively quickly.

In my thoughts and prayers,

Mommy to:

Annette 15 yo, selective antibody deficiency, cp, devlopmental delays,

g-tube, hiv+, IVIG x 5 years, now doing Sub Q and LOVING it!

10 yo, previous B and T cell deficiencies, IVIG x 1 year (off now

over 2 years), daily prophylaxis with Zithromax, brain tumor survivor, hearing

impaired, seizure disorder, learning disabled, and one heck of a " WWF

wrestler " !

Trayvon 7 yo, Ivemark Syndrome, severe congenital heart defects, asplenia,

malrotated intestines, microcephalic, migraines, severe reflux and losing

teeth by the day!

Marriela 3 yo, Micro premie (26 weeker, 1 lb, 12oz), NICU x 4 months, severe

asthma, devlopmental delays, mild cp, reflux, and gives us a serious run for

our money every single day!

and last but not least, Cody 4 months and thus far only has reflux to add to

his name.

God has a serious sense of humor now doesn't he! LOLOLOLOL

_www.caringbridge.com/ny/my2angels_

(http://www.caringbridge.com/ny/my2angels)

September 9, 2006

In a message dated 9/9/06 9:07:41 AM, cornerstone@... writes:

Wondering what your experience with headaches is? I have been

experiencing daily headaches and migraines since Dec/2004 and am

wondering if there is a link between them and the PA. anyone else?

This is one of the most common complaints. Should get better as BP comes undercontrol with Sprio. BB may also help.

List all drugs you are on and all supplements etc you take.

Tell us about the headaches in as much detail as possible.

When do they come on, how do they start, where does it hurt, can you tell when one is coming on, have you found a way to abort them before they reach max intensity. etc etc

List all BP meds you have been on. Did they help or aggravate the headaches?

Has anyone said they are migraine? Anyone in family with them?

May your pressure be low!

C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

September 9, 2006

>

> In a message dated 9/9/06 9:07:41 AM, cornerstone@... writes:

>

> >

>

> This is one of the most common complaints. Should get better as BP

comes

> undercontrol with Sprio. BB may also help.

>

> List all drugs you are on and all supplements etc you take.

> Inspra 100 mg (take 50mg 2xday), Maxzide 12.5mg 1xday, potassium

20meq 2xday, Desipramine 25mg 3xday (ha prev.), Verapamil 180mg sa

1xday, Toprol XL 100 mg (take 50 mg 2x day), Topamax 300mg/day (ha

prev.), Zanaflex 4mg up to 5 x day for pain.

> Tell us about the headaches in as much detail as possible.

> ha start every day after i am up for about 1 hour and last all day

until bed. intensity ranges 6-8 on pain scale. occipital pain to

start, then involves entire head when it reaches peak. these do get to

a 9 at times. do get visual aura -- mainly intense colors and zig zags.

> When do they come on, how do they start, where does it hurt, can you

tell

see above

> when one is coming on, have you found a way to abort them before

they reach max

triptans worked when i 1st started getting these in 2002, they where

pretty much classic menstrual migraines, diagnosed by my local clinic

physician, i'd get 4 to 6 a month cycled around my menses. Then

triptans quit working for me and only narcotics would work, and of

course that is no good, so as of june 1st i have been off of all

abortives all together and trying to find a preventative that will

work, so far with no success.

> intensity. etc etc

>

> List all BP meds you have been on. Did they help or aggravate the

> headaches? Verapamil, atenalol, i can't remember from year ago, i

have been dealing with my BP for 10 yrs now...I finally went to the

Mayo this last March because I was sick and tired of not being able to

control my BP and was really amazed at how quickly they figured me

out!Dr. Graves put me on Inspra, only 50 mg. at that time along with

my other BP stuff, and it did the trick up until about a month ago anyway.

> used to be on atenelol, in addition to the above, we replaced it

with the toprol. nothing seemed to touch the ha's.

> Has anyone said they are migraine? Anyone in family with them?

>

My father had headaches -- my mother divorced him when i was a baby

and i never had a chance to know that side of the family. he died very

young.

kim

>

> May your pressure be low!

>

> C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

> Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

> and the Physiology and History of Survival During

> Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

>

September 9, 2006

In a message dated 9/9/06 6:52:35 PM, cornerstone@... writes:

<wbr>also --

increased the inspra to the 100mg on Friday. thank you for help and time!!

kim

Keep us posted on how this helps.

May your pressure be low!

C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

September 9, 2006

Forgot to mention -- the migraines started in 2002 (never had them as

a child or young adult) but became daily 12/2004. Neurologist at Mayo

diagnosed me with 'transformed migraines' made worse by medication

overuse -- hence the decision to stop all abortives. Am currently

being treated by a pain mngmt clinic doc who is trying to find the

magic cocktail of preventatives that will work for me. I am wondering

if there is something PA related that I should be sharing with him...I

go in on the 18th. Also, have nausea and blurry vision along with the

headaches, not sure if these symptoms are migraine related or PA

related...have lost 35# and am still losing weight (slowly), finding

it hard to eat because of the constant low grade nausea. My Internist

has me seeing a gastro in a few weeks for this...And because on the CT

scan i just had (still no sign of any tumors on those adrenals) my

stomach was not emptying properly or something...also -- just

increased the inspra to the 100mg on Friday. thank you for help and time!!

kim

November 28, 2006

Massage helped my headaches a lot! Eyestrain contributed to them.

Adrienne

Headaches

I am new here and having a lot of trouble following all of your posts.

Way over my head and pretty complicated.

I have had CFS for about 10 years and in the last 2 years I have

struggled with bad headaches. They are located in my eye/nose area

(mainly), around my jaw and back of the skull (more as tension). Does

anyone else have this problem? I read where headaches are a common

symptom of this illness and wondered if anyone has any advise on how I

can help myself? Anything I can take or anything I can do to get relief?

Thanks,

a in snowy North Idaho

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

November 28, 2006

Hi a,

With this illness, different things work for different people.

I've had CFS for 18 years. For many of those years I had daily vascular

headaches. The blood vessels in and around my temples would

constrict causing a bulge under the skin. The blood would back-up and

cause swelling and tremendous pain that radiated through the side of my

face and head. Nothing helped until I began taking one tablespoon of

liquid cold-pressed refrigerated flaxseed oil every day. I was taking

it for a boost to my immune system, but within a week the daily

headaches stopped. They don't return as long as I continue the flaxseed

oil. I use Barlean's, Spectrum or other brands which I buy at Whole

Foods Market. The taste of the oil isn't great so follow it with a

glass of juice. I don't know whether this would help you, but it's worth

a try. Flaxseed oil contains omega 3 essential fatty acids, so we all

need that. At a different time of day, I also take Garden of Life

Olde Fashioned Icelandic Cod Liver Oil to make sure I'm getting vitamin

D. I didn't start this until more recently and I take it only about two

or three times a week. This brand is supposed to be one of the purest

forms you can buy.

When I get a headache in the back of my head, I believe that it's

usually associated with foods that have created toxins in my system.

I try to eat a very healthy diet, avoiding sugars and junk foods.

Basically, I eat fruits, vegetables, grains, chicken, turkey and a

little fish or lamb. I find that eating a good diet and having good

elimination helps with that type of headache.

Best wishes,

sophieboris wrote:

> I have had CFS for about 10 years and in the last 2 years I have

> struggled with bad headaches. They are located in my eye/nose area

> (mainly), around my jaw and back of the skull (more as tension). Does

> anyone else have this problem? I read where headaches are a common

> symptom of this illness and wondered if anyone has any advise on how I

> can help myself? Anything I can take or anything I can do to get

relief? Thanks, a in snowy North Idaho

>

November 28, 2006

Thanks everyone, it is just good to know you are all out there. I

have been pretty depressed lately because my doctor is undertreating

my thyroid disease and I am hypothyroid as well. I see this doctor

tomorrow and then I am going to up my dose of thyroid medicine myself

after I see my blood work. I don't know how common hypothyroidism is

along with CFS. I have a suppressed TSH but my Free T3 & 4 are in the

lower part of the normal range. I hear they need to be higher to feel

good. I have spent most of today in bed.

3 months ago when my doctor said I had to lower my dose she said I has

" hypermetobolic " . I laughed out loud.

The sad thing and the hardest thing for me to deal with right now is

that in July and August I was feeling almost normal, almost healthy.

Now I am back in bed and very sad. Also have that darn headache to

deal with.

I will take all of your suggestions and let you know what works.

Thank you again,

a in snowy North Idaho.

>

> I am new here and having a lot of trouble following all of your posts.

> Way over my head and pretty complicated.

> I have had CFS for about 10 years and in the last 2 years I have

> struggled with bad headaches. They are located in my eye/nose area

> (mainly), around my jaw and back of the skull (more as tension). Does

> anyone else have this problem? I read where headaches are a common

> symptom of this illness and wondered if anyone has any advise on how I

> can help myself? Anything I can take or anything I can do to get

relief?

> Thanks,

> a in snowy North Idaho

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in

any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

November 28, 2006

Does anyone know exactly what biological mechanism (i.e. thick blood, high

or low blood pressure, hypothryoid/hypoadrenal, vasoconstriction) is behind

sleep deprivation and/or throwing off one's circadian rhythm resulting in

fatigue, malaise, and those dull nagging tension headaches???

November 29, 2006

It could be ergot alkaloids in Aspergillius-type molds.. they can act as

vasoconstrictors as well as vasodilators..

They might be so powerful that you might not even need to smell the mold

inside of the wall, as ergot alkaloids are fairly powerful by weight.

On 11/29/06, nutrimedent@... <nutrimedent@...> wrote:

>

> Does anyone know exactly what biological mechanism (i.e. thick blood,

> high

> or low blood pressure, hypothryoid/hypoadrenal, vasoconstriction) is

> behind

> sleep deprivation and/or throwing off one's circadian rhythm resulting in

> fatigue, malaise, and those dull nagging tension headaches???

>

November 29, 2006

LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote:

>

> It could be ergot alkaloids in Aspergillius-type molds.. they can

act as vasoconstrictors as well as vasodilators..

>

> They might be so powerful that you might not even need to smell the

mold inside of the wall, as ergot alkaloids are fairly powerful by

weight.

>

All of this is covered in great detail in the book Mold Warriors.

The low VEGF inhibits oxygenation at the capillary beds:

The entire basis for the VCS test!

-

November 30, 2006

Could someone translate the below info. into plain Engish, as if you

were explaining it to a fifteen year old? This is a *great* list,

but some members have way more medical knowledge that others (me).

I had a headache for four days, prior to the extreme cold front that

came through the Dallas area last night and today.

Mike C

> >

> > It could be ergot alkaloids in Aspergillius-type molds.. they can

> act as vasoconstrictors as well as vasodilators..

> >

> > They might be so powerful that you might not even need to smell the

> mold inside of the wall, as ergot alkaloids are fairly powerful by

> weight.

> >

>

> All of this is covered in great detail in the book Mold Warriors.

> The low VEGF inhibits oxygenation at the capillary beds:

> The entire basis for the VCS test!

> -

>

November 30, 2006

Cheney covers this issue in his latest lecture. I *believe* he said

magnesium defeciency was one reason that we have sleep problem.

Magnesium is cheap and the side effects of taking too much aren't

very serious.

Mike C

>

> Does anyone know exactly what biological mechanism (i.e. thick

blood, high

> or low blood pressure, hypothryoid/hypoadrenal, vasoconstriction) is

behind

> sleep deprivation and/or throwing off one's circadian rhythm

resulting in

> fatigue, malaise, and those dull nagging tension headaches???

November 30, 2006

" yakcamp22 " <yakcamp22@...> wrote:

>

> Could someone translate the below info. into plain Engish, as if

you were explaining it to a fifteen year old? This is a *great*

list, but some members have way more medical knowledge that others

(me). I had a headache for four days, prior to the extreme cold

front that came through the Dallas area last night and today.

>

> Mike C

OK, Mike.

You remember where " CFS " began?

Dr noted that a whole bunch of teachers and students got

sick at Truckee HS and called the CDC?

They sent out Kaplan and Holmes who said we were all a bunch of

hysterical hypochondriacs and then bailed out, leaving us to be

cremated by our wonderful families and " friends " who were now

assured that we were the liars they suspected? Officially CONFIRMED

to be malingering liars by the almighty CDC?

Well, I was a student at Truckee, and just like those teachers, the

darn place knocked me flat. Seemed to play a part in who didn't

recover from that stupid " Yuppie Flu " crap that went through -

probably HHV6a as identified by Dr . I figured out what

that " location badness " was, mostly because I tripped over it when

there was nothing else around, no chemicals or anything, just mold.

Tried for years to get doctors to help me with this little problem,

but it was just to " out there " for them to consider.

But basically, it is a reaction to specific types of molds, not all

of 'em, just a few " toxin producers " .

We found those " toxin producers " at a great many places where " CFS

clusters " happened, especially the one that got the whole " CFS

thing " started.

I knew from going to that darn school over and over, that when it

was stormy, it was godawful mold spore HELL!

Turns out that approaching storms UNLEASHES vast " spore clouds "

from these mold colonies and can increase the " spore count " from

near zilch, to a few gadzillion - in minutes!

When I was at a really low point, I hit my limit of " doctor-non-

listening " and started screaming at them " WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO HELP

ME WITH THE MOLD?? " but the darn " poop for brains " just kept

saying " That's IMPOSSIBLE " and telling me to get rid of my cat,

which I still have, thanks to my stubborn resistance to people

telling me stuff that doesn't make any sense.

So I bailed on their sorry butts and took matters into my own hands.

I hired a mycologist- " mold specialist " to go around with me to

various mold colonies, and when we ran into one that " had the

effect " , I said " What the HELL is that stuff " and it turned out to

be the MOST terrorsome " toxic mold " known to mankind: Stachybotrys.

Well, I got just a bit of that nasty stuff, scared the heck out of

me to do this experiment, but I went to the desert and by putting

out a tarp and gradually moving closer to a very small sample as I

tried to sleep, found that even an incredibly small amount had a

certain " range " to it where it could reach out and make me wish I

was dead.

By KNOWING what it was that I was " testing " myself against, I

learned to recognize the very first signs of getting too close, and

learned to RUN before my immune system went wild.

Much to my amazement, doing THIS ALONE and NOTHING MORE gave me

more relief than ANYTHING else I had ever tried.

Naturally, being a prototype for CFS, I reckoned that people might

want to hear about this little oddity, specially since I recovered

so much that I was out climbing mountains instead of lying in bed,

thinking about shooting myself.

But when I went to CFS doctors and CFS groups to tell my crazy mold

story, they said " You can't prove it " and " That's just YOU " , even

though a bunch of them were absolutely REEKING with the same " mold

hits " that I had learned to stay away from.

Why, they went so far as to say " That just proves you NEVER HAD

real CFS " which is a really strange thing to say to someone who

served as the " matrix " by participating in the Holmes study group.

Funny that they would be so disinterested. Considering the amount

of pain I was able to avoid, and how much " life " I managed to get

back, kind of blows me away that people in the same boat I was would

sink this chance to get their butts out of a really bad situation,

but there it is? What'cha gonna do?

We all gotta " paddle our own canoe " I s'pose.

As long as I can stay afloat and avoid these symptoms by staying

away from those places where a " weather change " unleashed a torrent

of toxic spores, I guess I'll just " keep on, keepin on " and wait to

see if someone wants to go with me to " Ground Zero for CFS " : Truckee

HS, and see for themselves how just a bit of this nasty stuff will

knock them on their butts. I'm not saying " Mold is the cause " or

anything like that, just that this sure seems to be one Hell of a

Clue, since so many seem to be affected even though they can't quite

make the connection as to where this horrible feeling seems to come

from. Mostly, by trying to 'tough it out', they stay in a situation

where being tough doesn't much compensate for having your blood-flow

shut off.

So far, all the CFSers I know haven't done very well when they get

around this type of mold, and when they complain that storms knock

them out, I figure they are probably just like me.

Once they go with me to a " mold zone " and feel it for themselves,

that pretty much narrows it down to a near certainty.

-

November 30, 2006

My rheumatologist prescribed two forms of Mg for me in 1998. It tok years

to discover that my body needs it in lkiquid form. Mg three to four times a

day has really helped my body in many, many ways including pain relief.

Many use Natural Calm for sleep. _www.naturalcalm.net_

(http://www.naturalcalm.net)

mjh

" The Basil Book "

_http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

Posted by: " yakcamp22 " _yakcamp22@... _

(mailto:yakcamp22@...?Subject= Re:%20Headaches) _yakcamp22 _

(yakcamp22)

Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:31 pm (PST)

Cheney covers this issue in his latest lecture. I *believe* he said

magnesium defeciency was one reason that we have sleep problem.

Magnesium is cheap and the side effects of taking too much aren't

very serious.

Mike C

December 1, 2006

> >

> > Could someone translate the below info. into plain Engish, as if

> you were explaining it to a fifteen year old? This is a *great*

> list, but some members have way more medical knowledge that others

> (me). I had a headache for four days, prior to the extreme cold

> front that came through the Dallas area last night and today.

> >

> > Mike C

>

> OK, Mike.

> You remember where " CFS " began?

> Dr noted that a whole bunch of teachers and students got

> sick at Truckee HS and called the CDC?

> They sent out Kaplan and Holmes who said we were all a bunch of

> hysterical hypochondriacs and then bailed out, leaving us to be

> cremated by our wonderful families and " friends " who were now

> assured that we were the liars they suspected? Officially

CONFIRMED

> to be malingering liars by the almighty CDC?

> Well, I was a student at Truckee, and just like those teachers,

the

> darn place knocked me flat. Seemed to play a part in who didn't

> recover from that stupid " Yuppie Flu " crap that went through -

> probably HHV6a as identified by Dr . I figured out what

> that " location badness " was, mostly because I tripped over it when

> there was nothing else around, no chemicals or anything, just

mold.

> Tried for years to get doctors to help me with this little

problem,

> but it was just to " out there " for them to consider.

> But basically, it is a reaction to specific types of molds, not

all

> of 'em, just a few " toxin producers " .

> We found those " toxin producers " at a great many places

where " CFS

> clusters " happened, especially the one that got the whole " CFS

> thing " started.

> I knew from going to that darn school over and over, that when it

> was stormy, it was godawful mold spore HELL!

> Turns out that approaching storms UNLEASHES vast " spore clouds "

> from these mold colonies and can increase the " spore count " from

> near zilch, to a few gadzillion - in minutes!

> When I was at a really low point, I hit my limit of " doctor-non-

> listening " and started screaming at them " WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO

HELP

> ME WITH THE MOLD?? " but the darn " poop for brains " just kept

> saying " That's IMPOSSIBLE " and telling me to get rid of my cat,

> which I still have, thanks to my stubborn resistance to people

> telling me stuff that doesn't make any sense.

> So I bailed on their sorry butts and took matters into my own

hands.

> I hired a mycologist- " mold specialist " to go around with me to

> various mold colonies, and when we ran into one that " had the

> effect " , I said " What the HELL is that stuff " and it turned out to

> be the MOST terrorsome " toxic mold " known to mankind:

Stachybotrys.

> Well, I got just a bit of that nasty stuff, scared the heck out

of

> me to do this experiment, but I went to the desert and by putting

> out a tarp and gradually moving closer to a very small sample as I

> tried to sleep, found that even an incredibly small amount had a

> certain " range " to it where it could reach out and make me wish I

> was dead.

> By KNOWING what it was that I was " testing " myself against, I

> learned to recognize the very first signs of getting too close,

and

> learned to RUN before my immune system went wild.

> Much to my amazement, doing THIS ALONE and NOTHING MORE gave me

> more relief than ANYTHING else I had ever tried.

> ..................................................................

......................................................................

..............................................................

> So far, all the CFSers I know haven't done very well when

they get

> around this type of mold, and when they complain that storms knock

> them out, I figure they are probably just like me.

> Once they go with me to a " mold zone " and feel it for themselves,

> that pretty much narrows it down to a near certainty.

> -

>

Hi

I am really interested in what you have to say. I too have the

problem with storms even a rainy day can knock me back. Are you

saying that as the air pressure drops the mold spores burst? I have

often tried to figure out the mechanism.

If i work in the garden I have to wear a mask. Especially if I am

digging soil. I guess there are many different types of mold in

soil. I also get an alarm going off in my head if I go in damp

mouldy places. I almost get panicky in my efforts to get away.

Just recently I told Dr Myhill that I had tried EPD for my

allergies but it didn't work for me and she said it usually fails if

someone is sensitive to mold.

Thanks for posting.

December 1, 2006

" greenfields97 " wrote:

> Hi

> I am really interested in what you have to say. I too have the

> problem with storms even a rainy day can knock me back. Are you

> saying that as the air pressure drops the mold spores burst? I have

> often tried to figure out the mechanism.

> If i work in the garden I have to wear a mask. Especially if I am

> digging soil. I guess there are many different types of mold in

> soil. I also get an alarm going off in my head if I go in damp

> mouldy places. I almost get panicky in my efforts to get away.

> Just recently I told Dr Myhill that I had tried EPD for my

> allergies but it didn't work for me and she said it usually fails if

> someone is sensitive to mold.

> Thanks for posting.

>

, Yes, exactly!

That " effect " at times of barometric shift is the release of

neurotoxins - a separate issue to the antigenic response to physical

spores. Not allergy, TOXIC, that's why EPD has the opposite effect to

the one projected by allergists.

This stuff is literally nerve gas - and creates lasting damage.

Your body is sending you the correct message in that " panic response " ,

but most people view that as an " emotional response " which they SHOULD

overpower and suppress through " strength of will " .

Bad idea.

As I've been saying for all these years, I rely on this " emotional

response as a guide to ACTION " : Evasion of NEUROTOXIC EXPOSURE!

So you can see why I'm kind of a crusader against psychologizers.

Their view is that these emotional responses are RESPONSIBLE for the

illness and a result of " negativity " , while my view is that the sudden

shift in emotional response which-has-no-intellectual-stimulus is a

sign of your immune system trying to warn you of inflammatory

upregulation.

Psychologizers have " cause-effect " completely reversed, and you

ignore the " Depression response " at your peril.

-

December 1, 2006

Basically, it's that some mycotoxins, either directly, or indirectly, cut

off the blood supply to some parts of the body, incuding parts of the brain,

and that can cause cell damage. There are really no cures for this, besides

avoidance, but some vitamins, nutrients, etc, can offer a limited amount of

neuroprotection. Do a search for 'neuroprotection' on PubMed and also look

at things that protect the brain in cases of stroke, etc.

They might help.

Ergot alkaloids, in particular, like the one in some aspergillus species,

have a long and nasty history of causing (sometimes terrifying) human

illnesses.

(look up St. 's Fire for this history)

Ergot alkaloids, specific ones, are also used sometimes to treat migraine

headaches..

On 11/30/06, yakcamp22 <yakcamp22@...> wrote:

>

> Could someone translate the below info. into plain Engish, as if you

> were explaining it to a fifteen year old? This is a *great* list,

> but some members have way more medical knowledge that others (me).

> I had a headache for four days, prior to the extreme cold front that

> came through the Dallas area last night and today.

>

> Mike C

>

> > >

> > > It could be ergot alkaloids in Aspergillius-type molds.. they can

> > act as vasoconstrictors as well as vasodilators..

> > >

> > > They might be so powerful that you might not even need to smell the

> > mold inside of the wall, as ergot alkaloids are fairly powerful by

> > weight.

> > >

> >

> > All of this is covered in great detail in the book Mold Warriors.

> > The low VEGF inhibits oxygenation at the capillary beds:

> > The entire basis for the VCS test!

> > -

> >

>

December 1, 2006

That cutoff in the blood supply is NOT the only way mycotoxins cause

injury.. its one of many. But it seems to be a common problem.. They

can also cause apoptopsis (programmed cell death) and also can cause

DNA damage and destroy your immune system, etc.

And many other things, there being so many different mycotoxins..

On 12/1/06, LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote:

> Basically, it's that some mycotoxins, either directly, or indirectly, cut

> off the blood supply to some parts of the body, incuding parts of the brain,

> and that can cause cell damage. There are really no cures for this, besides

> avoidance, but some vitamins, nutrients, etc, can offer a limited amount of

> neuroprotection. Do a search for 'neuroprotection' on PubMed and also look

> at things that protect the brain in cases of stroke, etc.

>

> They might help.

>

> Ergot alkaloids, in particular, like the one in some aspergillus species,

> have a long and nasty history of causing (sometimes terrifying) human

> illnesses.

>

> (look up St. 's Fire for this history)

>

> Ergot alkaloids, specific ones, are also used sometimes to treat migraine

> headaches..

>

December 1, 2006

> , Yes, exactly!

> That " effect " at times of barometric shift is the release of

> neurotoxins - a separate issue to the antigenic response to physical

> spores. Not allergy, TOXIC, that's why EPD has the opposite effect to

> the one projected by allergists.

> This stuff is literally nerve gas - and creates lasting damage.

> Your body is sending you the correct message in that " panic response " ,

> but most people view that as an " emotional response " which they SHOULD

> overpower and suppress through " strength of will " .

> Bad idea.

> As I've been saying for all these years, I rely on this " emotional

> response as a guide to ACTION " : Evasion of NEUROTOXIC EXPOSURE!

** So is there a gas mask available that can protect against this? IF

so, that might be an interesting test for individual PWCs. Wear the

mask for a few days and see how they feel. Or just wear the mask when

the pressure changes. That might give some indication as to whether

an environmental mycotoxin effect is involved in their CFS.

--Kurt

December 1, 2006

Kurt,

There is a problem in that even N95 masks, although they remove a great deal

of

airborne particulate matter, can't remove the smallest fungal fragments

which

appear to in some cases, (stachybotrys in particular)

carry a disproprtionately large amount of the mycotoxin load, as far as

inhibition of protein synthesis goes. In other words, the smallest particles

remain very toxic.

Those particles are so small that they can go right through the holes in

many masks and air filters in significant quantities along with the air.

See

*Brasel, T. L., D. R. , S. C. , and D. C. Straus.* 2004.

Detection of airborne *Stachybotrys chartarum* macrocyclic trichothecene

mycotoxins on particulates smaller than conidia. Appl. Environ. Microbiol.

71*:*114-122.

http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/71/1/114.pdf

That's not to say that a mask doesn't help, it does, a lot. But I don't

think that it would stop the inflammation from occurring in the most toxic

cases, unless you were wearing an N100 mask or powered respirator.

Skin absorbtion is also a significant factor with many mycotoxins. They are

not as powerful when they absorb through the skin but they are still very

toxic. And people who have been living in a moldy environment develop

hypersensitivity such that even very small exposures triggers an immune

response - because the body is expecting another assault at full strength.

This may mean that inflammatory response has much less to do with the

strength of the trigger, and much more to do with what it is.. whether it is

a mold or mold toxin that has been problematic in the past.

I know this from personal experience because a great deal of my belongings

are contaminated to some degree from my previous home, even though I have

spent what seems like an endless amount of time repeatedly cleaning things,

its very hard to clean everything completely.

On 12/1/06, Kurt Rowley <kurtrowley@...> wrote:

>

> > , Yes, exactly!

> > That " effect " at times of barometric shift is the release of

> > neurotoxins - a separate issue to the antigenic response to physical

> > spores. Not allergy, TOXIC, that's why EPD has the opposite effect to

> > the one projected by allergists.

> > This stuff is literally nerve gas - and creates lasting damage.

> > Your body is sending you the correct message in that " panic response " ,

> > but most people view that as an " emotional response " which they SHOULD

> > overpower and suppress through " strength of will " .

> > Bad idea.

> > As I've been saying for all these years, I rely on this " emotional

> > response as a guide to ACTION " : Evasion of NEUROTOXIC EXPOSURE!

>

> ** So is there a gas mask available that can protect against this? IF

> so, that might be an interesting test for individual PWCs. Wear the

> mask for a few days and see how they feel. Or just wear the mask when

> the pressure changes. That might give some indication as to whether

> an environmental mycotoxin effect is involved in their CFS.

>

> --Kurt

>

> _

>

December 1, 2006

For testing purposes at least, surely there must be some device that would be

adequate. Those moon suits that gov't guys use? It certainly would be a good way

to prove or disprove.

Adrienne

Re: Re: Headaches