depression

[Guest guest]

The discussion about depression has prompted me to make a suggestion

based on something I read lately. As I have posted before, my

nutritionist said I need B12 shots to restart my methylation cycle, so I

did some surfing and found an excellent article about it. Methylation

has a lot to do with the amount of SAMe in the body and SAMe is supposed

to be good for depression. SAMe is converted to homosysteine in the body

and visa versa. So if you suffer from depression, you might ask the

doctor to check your homosysteine level. If it is high there are

supplements you can take to help your body convert this damaging

homosysteine into SAMe and that might help with depression. The

supplements are: B12, folic acid, betaine and zinc. Homosysteine is

believed to cause heart disease and cancer so if you have high levels

you probably should do something about it.

Anyway, this is just a theory I have based on what I have learned

recently. I recommend reading a series of articles about methylation at:

www.miami-dade-online.com. This is the homepage. Click on " Methyl

Manual " for the articles.

Bonnie B

[Guest guest]

, I feel for you my friend. I will keep you in my prayers. Remember God does not give us more than we can handle. Sometimes we underestimate our own abbilities to handle things but God never underestimates us and he created us in our entirety and he knows what we are going through. Lean on him during this time of weariness and remember Isaiah 41:10 says "So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed , for I am your God. I will strenthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand." I just had to come to grips with the fact that my middle daughter also has OCD OR GAD? And it was hard but God is so faithful and nothing is too big for him. Feel free to write me off list if you'd like. God Bless,

Nikki in O'town

[Guest guest]

HI :

Depression is a challenge and luckily is very treatable. I hope you and

your family are getting rapid help for this as it saps our ability to cope

with OCD etc.

WW (wonderful ) will remind you to take care of yourself first and I

hope you have a good support system and plan in place. One of the things I

have learned about dealing with OCD is that we do cope because the only

option is not to be considered and because human resiliency is unbelievable.

Effexor XR has helped me and I wish I had started to take it much earlier

rather than waiting three years into dealing with OCD to get started.

Steve has MDD so we have a plan to address suicidal behavior and increasing

sessions with his therapist as needed. Having Steve on the right SSRI has

been invaluable in controlling his depression. Effexor has really helped

with the tension as have regular massage and my microwaveable heating

pillow/shoulder wrap.

Please feel free to vent here. I like the saying that Dr. Penzel uses,

" Tough times don't last, tough people do " . Take care, aloha, kathy (h)

kathyh@...

At 11:23 PM 02/05/2001 -0500, you wrote:

>So, you wonder, am I writing about my own depression or one of my kid's?

>Well, both. I took my eldest to the psychiatrist today at her request.

>She is very depressed, especially about her OCD symptoms. I just don't

>know how I'm going to handle three really needy kids, but I'm sure God will

>supply the grace. I've been hanging out on the TSparents list,

>too....thanks for recommending it to me. I guess I'm sort of paralyzed

>today......I've got two kids that I need to start E/RP with, one who thinks

>about suicide, my back and neck are killing me from tension, I'm edging

>into menopause, my son's eczema is worse, yadda yadda b-tch b-tch. Sorry.

>Encouraging words???

[Guest guest]

I havent had to take prescription anti-depressants, but for the last year I have been taking an herbal combination for depression and extreme irritability/mood swings..... Havent had to since I started BFL No depression OR moodiness in sight! ~~

Interestingly enough, there's a short message in the new Shape magazine (April issue, page 104):Exercise and Zoloft Tie As Antidepressants

[Guest guest]

I havent had to take prescription anti-depressants, but for the last year I have been taking an herbal combination for depression and extreme irritability/mood swings..... Havent had to since I started BFL No depression OR moodiness in sight! ~~

Interestingly enough, there's a short message in the new Shape magazine (April issue, page 104):Exercise and Zoloft Tie As Antidepressants

[Guest guest]

Great post. Here's something similar from PREVENTION:

===========

Cindi Caciolo, ed., Prevention's Guide: Fit & Firm at 40-Plus

(Emmaus, PA: 2001), p11.

FOR YOUR MIND

Walk off the blues

Exercise can treat depression as well as medication

A recent study shows that walking or jogging for 30 minutes, three

times a week, can actually treat major depression just as well as

medication.

When 156 depressed people were treated with antidepressants,

exercise, or a combination of both, they all had similar results.

After 16 weeks of treatment, 60 or 70% of each group were no longer

clinically depressed. One difference: The people taking medication

got quicker results.

But about one-third of people with depression don't respond to drugs,

says study author Blumenthal, PhD, a psychologist at Duke

University Medical Center in Durham, NC. For these people (and

others who want to avoid the side effects of medication or who prefer

more natural treatment ), exercise is a viable option. As always, be

sure that you check with your doctor before you stop any medication

and before you begin a vigorous exercise plan.

> Interestingly enough, there's a short message in the new Shape

magazine (April issue, page 104):

>

> Exercise and Zoloft Tie As Antidepressants

>

> Regular aerobic workouts help clinically depressed people at least

as much as the antidepressant drug Zoloft, a study at Duke University

Medical Center in Durham, NC., found. There, 133 men and women with

major depression either exercised aerobically for 30 minutes three

times per week, took Zoloft or did both. After four months, exercise

worked as well as either Zoloft alone or the combination. After 10

months, the exercisers were half as likely as the others to be

diagnosed with depression. Researchers believe the mood-elevating

results of exercise may be due to the self-control, master and

accomplishment it imparts. - Walsh

>

> Tina

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Just an addendum.

Seek out a Licensed Clinical Therapist or Psychiatrist to talk with.

Depression is biochemical and can be treated with medications and talk therapy. Untreated depression as stated, leads to more heart problems.

Clinical research bears this out.

Beth York MS, LCSW And AICD recipient

[Guest guest]

Amen Steve... 1 question for you... I know you have put together a

fantastic homepage w/all sorts of heart related information, but have

you ever considered writing? I'm serious. You have a way w/words and

you certainly look at this situation with a posiitive attitude and

being a patient yourself, you know where we've been, where we are,

and most definetly where we want to go ... I think you would do a top

knotch job on a self-help book for heart patients.

JES in NJ, USA

God created your face. You creat the expression.

> I guess that I have ruffled a few feathers addressing depression,

for

> others it has smoothed a few.

>

> Its not some preaching act, its an experience that took two years

to

> recover from. Problem is, most of us are blind to it, if it grabs

us.

>

> Other than the waste, I guess there is nothing personally wrong

with

> choosing to be depressed. Sometimes the easiest thing is to just

> point to our hearts and say " you have no idea what this is like "

but

> in fact. Most people do, be it a heart, kidney, brain, paralyses or

> life in general.

>

> But what most people with a heart problem don't realize is that to

> remain depressed, to not seek help, to not learn to accept what

will

> no longer be and what will now be the norm, is the devistating

effect

> it also has on the heart.

>

> AICD depression is, in the long term, as bad as smoking, eating

daily

> Philly Cheese Steak sandwiches, Couch potatoing, drinking or any

> other

> heart defeating activity. Actually worse.

>

> The first worse that comes to mind is that I would much rather be

> having a cigarette and glass of beer after polishing off a big

drippy

> Philly Cheese Steak sandwich, than sitting on my couch convincing

> myself how much life sucks.

>

> But the main reason, that many people are not aware of, is the

amount

> of damage that being like that does to your heart. To not

> acknowledge

> the problem, to instead live with it, is deadly. That's proven.

IM

> not talking deadly as in what we normally associate with

depression,

> but what it will do to your heart. Its proven, the numbers don't

> lie,

> you cannot allow it, and there is help and drugs out there.

>

> Check out these sites for some startling facts

>

> http://www.drmirkin.com/heart/8026.htm

> http://www.mcall.com/html/heart/stories/a13_heartattack.htm

> http://www.cfah.org/website2/Newsrelease/depression3-23-01.htm

> http://www.mindpub.com/art057.htm

> http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/121796/depressi.htm

> http://www.mcall.com/html/heart/stories/15347.htm

> http://www.biomed.lib.umn.edu/hmed/20000425_sad.html

>

> And the list goes on and on and on. Its a fact, the same as some

> ugly

> growth coming out of the side of your head. Problem is, we will

seek

> treatment from the growth, but sit in misery denying depression,

> mainly because of the stigma attached to it by society.

>

> There is help, programs, great drugs (that don't dope you up)

>

> Also, what needs to be considered is brain chemistry. Info

> transferal

> in the brain is all about a very delicately balanced brain

chemistry.

>

> Being down from a heart attack, or even some surgery, or just

stress

> of a major life change can throw that brain chemistry off to a

point

> that depression takes over, Sometimes just because you cant let go

of

> the thoughts, like they got no place to go, they cant be

rationalized

> away, they keep coming back, fears, thoughts, worries. Well, there

> are some super drugs out there that can help get that brain

chemistry

> back in place.

>

> Don't waste the new life. Talk to the doctors, ask for help, get

the

> referrals, Neuropsychs are the guys who deal with the chemical side

> of depression rather than the " talk it up " side. Use them, it does

> not have to be this dark. Suffering in silence is no sign of

coping

> or strength.

>

> You can feel good in life, even if the cards in your hand may not

be

> the best, the game is still fun. Dont accept second best.

>

> Steve

>

> ...............;.................................................

[Guest guest]

Could I have the homepage for Steve??? I tried to connect to each of the

sites listed and could not. Thanks

[Guest guest]

Please give me info on where studies have shown depression worsens heart

condition. Thanks

[Guest guest]

> Amen Steve... 1 question for you... I know you have put together a

> fantastic homepage w/all sorts of heart related information, but

have you ever considered writing?

Actually Jes, I do have a piece I have ben working on, but I keep

forgetting I am working on it Your question is a common one

though, I am really being pushed to do something by the people over

on

the brain injury board. Its another lemoms to lemonade story (I

know,

they make you want to puke:)

When I came out of the coma, my comunication abilities were pretty

poor. I got wrapped up in the computer because I found that though I

could not hold my thoughts together for good conversation, I could

write down the fragments and keep re reading them and changing them

until they started to say what I wanted them to. I have improved in

the speah area, but those years of working with the computer put me

at

ease expressing myself on the keyboard. My wife reads books to me

that

are so well done about the personal sides of peoples lives who are

faced with difficult situations, I sometimes wonder if there will be

room for another

Steve

..................................

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: <AMAmail

> I guess that I have ruffled a few feathers addressing depression, for

> others it has smoothed a few.

All:

Depression is not at all a condition from which I suffer. (My wife says I'm

a carrier.) Still it is a very real possibility for all of us, and an

extremely difficult one to recognize when you do not have any history of it.

In 1986 after open heart surgery, I suffered from it for the first time in

my life. After a conversation with my internist and cardio, I learned that

it was one of the side effects of my meds. just knowing that made the

depression pretty much disappear as I was able to see it as physical and not

mental and compensated by finding " fun " things to do. By nature I'm a

clown, a joke teller and an inveterate punster, so it is very easy for me to

find humor in most everything. Humor helps a whole lot as it has been

described beginning with Norman Cousins book of several decades ago.

A few suggestions along those lines for fighting depression. One is to

watch a lot of funny stuff on television, especially movies. (My own

favorite is Trains, Planes and Automobiles with Steve and Candy,

but whatever makes you laugh will help. Also the internet is full of daily

jokes to which you can subscribe for free and choose them according to your

own taste (or lack of taste, as the case may be). Writers like Dave Barry

and Erma Bombeck can also help.

One other thing. Although not for depression, sarcasm is an excellent tool

for those who tend to get angry easily. It vents the emotions without the

rage. And . . . people listen to sarcasm when it is directed at them much

more than they do anger. There is also the satisfaction of getting in a

really good zinger. Zings are better than zaps.

Bill

[Guest guest]

> Hi,

> Just an addendum.

>

> Seek out a Licensed Clinical Therapist or Psychiatrist to talk with.

> Depression is biochemical and can be treated with medications and

talk

> therapy. Untreated depression as stated, leads to more heart

problems.

> Clinical research bears this out.

>

> Beth York MS, LCSW And AICD recipient

Plus, you feel one heck of alot better without it !!!!!!!!

Steve

.............................................

[Guest guest]

What is depression?

Depression is a mood disorder that affects most of the activities of

daily living. The most common effects are on sleep, eating, energy,

and sex drive. We have been able to identify many of the chemical

changes in depression. Depression does the same thing to our mood and

lifestyle whether the cause is internal or external in nature.

What causes depression?

Scientists can now identify a over 400 neurotransmitters in the

brain.

When we are under prolonged stress, depression often results in a

shortage of one of these chemicals. Most often the chemicals are

seritonin, dopamine, or non-epinephrine. The most common medications

replace and enhance these neurotransmitters. We do know that

depression is one of the most common diseases, and that left

untreated, has a mortality rate of the 18% (1/6). This is a disease

that strikes every generation of normal, healthy people.

Does having a depression mean that a person is mentally ill or going

crazy?

No, but it will very often make people think they are.

Is it a common illness?

Yes, it is the most common illness seen in all of medicine; however,

it is often confused with other illnesses. For example, many people

who think or are told they have " low blood " , vitamin deficiency,

sinus

headaches, low sugar, menopause, " the change, " " burnout, " and " all

run-down and need rest, " actually have a depression causing their

troubles.

What symptoms can a depressed person exhibit?

People with a depression can experience the following symptoms:

* They will feel very tired all the time, even when they have not

even

worked or exerted themselves very much. They will be just as tired on

days when they have rested as on days when they have worked hard.

* Their sleep will usually be affected in one of two ways; They will

either go to sleep and then wake up during the night and remain

awake,

or else they will sleep too much all the time, even during the day.

* They will feel very irritable. They will get upset very easily over

little things that ordinarily would not upset them.

* They will often feel very sad for no reason, and, in fact, will

often break into tears without knowing why.

* Their normal sex drive will be very much decreased, in fact, it

will

often go away altogether.

* They will often have a headache, perhaps not very severe, but

present most of the time. Almost any chronic pain elsewhere, such as

in the abdomen or back, can be caused by depression. And these pains

are not imaginary; they are quite real and often severe.

* They will find it difficult to enjoy things. They will feel little

enthusiasm, even for things they used to look forward to.

* They will often be constipated, or have other digestive symptoms

such as abdominal pain or diarrhea. They may lose or gain weight.

* They will find it difficult to concentrate, to make decisions, to

remember things, to get things done.

* They will often feel like they are ineffective and worthless, even

though they know they have no reason to feel that way.

Is this really a serious illness?

Yes. In a mild depression, people will often think they just have a

case of spring fever, or that they are just getting a little older,

but their efficiency will still be affected. In a more severe

depression it can be quite serious. This is the illness that can

cause

a very healthy and happy person to decide to commit suicide.

Can a person do anything to fight this disease?

Not by his/her own efforts. This is a disease over which a person has

no control, and it will do no good to " try to fight this myself. "

Are there any effective treatments?

Very much so. There are several drugs that are usually very effective

against depression. They are also quite safe compared to most

medicines.

If any of this sounds familiar and you feel you may be depressed,

-------------------------------

[Guest guest]

http://members.aol.com/AMAmail/index.html

> Could I have the homepage for Steve??? I tried to connect to each

of the

> sites listed and could not. Thanks

[Guest guest]

> Please give me info on where studies have shown depression worsens

heart

> condition. Thanks

http://www.drmirkin.com/heart/8026.htm

http://www.mcall.com/html/heart/stories/a13_heartattack.htm

http://www.cfah.org/website2/Newsrelease/depression3-23-01.htm

http://www.mindpub.com/art057.htm

http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/121796/depressi.htm

http://www.mcall.com/html/heart/stories/15347.htm

http://www.biomed.lib.umn.edu/hmed/20000425_sad.html

[Guest guest]

Bill,

> One other thing. Although not for depression, sarcasm is an excellent

> tool

> for those who tend to get angry easily. It vents the emotions without

> the

> rage. And . . . people listen to sarcasm when it is directed at them

> much

> more than they do anger. There is also the satisfaction of getting in

> a

> really good zinger. Zings are better than zaps.

What good advice! Would like to pass along something i heard on the

radio the other day.

It was on a talk station. As a guest, they had a handwriting analyst,

who asked the listeners

to fax in samples of their handwriting on unlined paper. He said that if

your writing on a

blank page tends to slant downwards as your sentence goes across the

paper, this means

you are depressed (or depressing, heh heh). An upward slant as you go

across the paper

means you are an optimistic and basically a cheerful person. He said

that you can actually

change your outlook by forcing yourself to write uphill rather than

down, claims it really

works. But not sure how one would do that on the computer.....

Sue

--

" She was not quite what you would call refined.

She was not quite what you would call unrefined.

She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot. "

-- Mark Twain

Rich and Sue Owens

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/7457/index3.html

[Guest guest]

Sharon:

Thanks for the compliment but as far as listening to me, if my wife, Martha,

doesn't . . .

Seriously, lthough I truly believe in the importance and healing powers of

humor and laughter, I think the first thing everyone facing medical problems

should do is to evaluate themselves and their needs. no one is better

equipped to do so than ourselves. It takes thought and time and brutal

honesty, something we are not always prepared to invest.

For me it took evaluating who I was first. What were my strengths and

weaknesses. I found that my personal strengths were optimism, logic,

analytical skills, breadth of trivial knowledge, an ability to express

myself verbally,and a comedian/humorist's perspective. My weaknesses were a

non emotionally oriented nature, cynicim, procrastination, physical inertia

(Martha calls it laziness.), no mechanical, gardening or crafting skills to

occupy my time and exercise my body, and a lack of commitment to taking care

of that body.

So I use humor to keep me on an even keel, the acquisition of knowledge in

order to use my analytical skills in understanfding things and making

decisions and the use of words (written and spoken) to communicate the

important things to those who need to know them. I have little need for

comforting and prefer to avoid emotional situations that are about me. I

use walking as a combination exercise environment and time for thought. I

stay away from tasks that are frustrating or unpleasant, and certainly from

those that are physically demanding. The more that I know the more in

control of my own life I am, and the more I control my own life the better

that life is.

it is interesting to note that this forum has all sorts of people with

vasried and sundry physical problems, and those that are the most successful

in dealing with them are those who are the most curious about their

condition and treatment and provide for their own emotional needs. what

works for one doesn't always work for another. We've just got to keep on

trying.

Bill

Re: Depression

> For all of you. Listen to Bill. He is one of my favorite people and has

> pulled me through by my shoe laces when he couldn't find anything else.

Bill

> has sent me a number of funny jokes and readings and really helps keep

life

> in prospective. A sharp whited sense of humor helps to. I think that I

have

> developed a wicked edge tongue at times but sometimes I do resent all the

> gooey rosy simplistic remarks about always making lemonade. Come on get

real

> sometimes there are just not enough hours in the day, Depression is real!

It

> touches those with aicd and those with hang nails. Sometimes it there for

> days sometimes only a few minutes but it is real and it does exist.

Embrace

> it and try to let it go but it is part of us the hurt and pain side of us

and

> we must learn to do with all side of us not just the sweet side because

often

> life is not sweet.

>

> This is not meant to offend anyone just to express feelings that

depression

> is real

>

> We will all make it!

> Sharon

>

> Please visit the Zapper homepage at

> http://www.ZapLife.org

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

" So I use humor to keep me on an even keel, the acquisition of

knowledge in order to use my analytical skills in understanfding

things and makingdecisions and the use of words (written and spoken)

to communicate theimportant things to those who need to know them. I

have little need for comforting and prefer to avoid emotional

situations that are about me. I use walking as a combination exercise

environment and time for thought. I stay away from tasks that are

frustrating or unpleasant, and certainly from those that are

physically demanding. The more that I know the more in control of my

own life I am, and the more I control my own life the better

that life is. "

These are Key words to accepting what is going on. To be honest with

ones self, to educate ones self and to live with the facts of what has

happened rather than the emotion. The emotion is destructive, yet it

has no physical being, we give it its strenth and allow it to take

from us, yet return nothing.

There are hard facts that heed to be accepted. Some of these seem to

offend people, but the sooner they are acknowlaged the faster life can

be good again. Things like " Alive with and AICD, dead without it "

simple fact. Things like " Strangers dont know what to say when you

tell them of your problems. They are generaly uncomfortable, they

will acknowlage and then avoid the subject. In the process they may

say inappropriate things, but hey, you put them on the spot, they are

not being mean "

Its a unique unit, Some people get zappped and go " horrid " , others go

" amazing " . The difference? Do you live in the moment or look to the

future.

Some people have great changes in their lives because of heath

reasons. Some sit in the shattered pieces and scream, some try and

find a future that is better than the moment. To sit in the shattered

pieces and scream is normal. To spend the rest of your life there is

not.

Some will say " look at me, I have been hurt so bad " Others will say

" its not so bad " and keep trying to find that next moment of joy.

There is only one thing in common here, Not AICDs. Not Zaps, Not

health, just one, Emotion and how you chose to react to it. It can

paint your life a dark hell or a bright new day. but you control that

even thogh sometimes we may not feel that way.

If you have allowed the grief and emotion to linger to long, you are

generaly depressed. You loose control and sit in that dark pit that

seems impossable to get out of. You justify your lack of life by

reassuring yourself " how bad its been " You say you want others to

help, but really all you may be looking for is someone new to tell the

same story to. If they try and help, you shun them away as uncarring.

Its emotion and your decisions about the emotion. Its accepting what

cant change and moving on, or deciding to just sit. Its acknowlaging

that yes, there is a big physical thing there to deal with, But it

does not stop tomorrow from happening.

This is not some pump and dump post of positive attitude power. I

spent to many years in that pit, I know the frustration, the sadness,

the feeling of hopelessness that it can bring on. I grieve, not for

peoples health problems, but how some allow the emotional side of them

to destroy their lives. There is a natural point that some people

must grieve, others never have to. But for those of us who do, we need

to learn the secrets held by those who feel good about what they have

been left with, if not, we will be left behind, alone and enemys of

ourselves. That to me, is scarier than all my body can throw at me.

I believe that tomorrow will be better than today. I know

[Guest guest]

I keep forgetting that I have this, I stole it off of the " NORD " site

years ago. It made me look at things differently, to acknowlage the

facts, to see where I was.

" Feelings I Keep to Myself "

by Mark Flapan, Ph.D.

http://hometown.aol.com/amamail/Emotions.html

Ste

[Guest guest]

Bill....

> It was that " fly boy " mentality that got me in trouble during puberty.

>

> Could never get my craft off the ground.

Hmmm.... kinda thot your craft should be in 'the ditch'.

Naughty Sue, with a sweet spot for a man in a uniform

--

" She was not quite what you would call refined.

She was not quite what you would call unrefined.

She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot. "

-- Mark Twain

Rich and Sue Owens

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/7457/index3.html

[Guest guest]

Bill....

> It was that " fly boy " mentality that got me in trouble during puberty.

>

> Could never get my craft off the ground.

Hmmm.... kinda thot your craft should be in 'the ditch'.

Naughty Sue, with a sweet spot for a man in a uniform

--

" She was not quite what you would call refined.

She was not quite what you would call unrefined.

She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot. "

-- Mark Twain

Rich and Sue Owens

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/7457/index3.html

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: <IIPistacio@...>

> Your wife must truly be blessed to

> have you in her life. I think I would

> spend all my time laughing

Sharon:

She only does when I bring up the subject of sex. Then when she thinks

about it, she's the one that gets depressed.

Bill

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: <IIPistacio@...>

> Your wife must truly be blessed to

> have you in her life. I think I would

> spend all my time laughing

Sharon:

She only does when I bring up the subject of sex. Then when she thinks

about it, she's the one that gets depressed.

Bill

[Guest guest]

YOU ARE VERY VERY BAD!!