Vitamin D

[Guest guest]

Fish oils isn't the same thing, so that won't do it. I took high doses of fish

oil for awhile and never felt much improvement. What you want to get is actually

called Vitamin D (will say D3 on the back with the dosage) and it will say

whether its 'from' fish or whatever but its not fish oil.

Marcia

Re: Vitamin D

Thanks, Marcia. I do take fish oils almost daily but it doesn't

seem to be enough.

Do the supplements you take specifically say D3 on the label?

Nat

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Hi Les,

Just thinking outloud here. What does that tell us that you can't

tolerate even small amounts of vitamin D oraly but you can tolerate

vitamin D via sun exposure? I suppose that means that it is not raising

vitamin D levels in your body that you are reacting to.

The vitamin D council

<http://www.cholecalciferol-council.com/index.html> write " /Most/ of us

make about 20,000 units of vitamin D after about 20 minutes of summer sun. "

Do you react similarly to other supplements?

The vitamin D council also write " Several artificial light sources are

commercially available that provide the proper wavelength for vitamin D

production. Sperti <http://sperti.com/home.html> makes a good UVB lamp

and has data on the vitamin D production of its sunlamps. "

http://www.cholecalciferol-council.com/treatment.shtml

you should definitely monitor your levels if you try one of these lamps

to see how effective it is for you. Also is there anywhere in your house

at a particular time of day you can sit near a window and have sun on you?

Blake

Masland wrote:

> Blake - thanks for asking. No, I would feel really good after sitting

> in the sun (when I used to be able to do that - now I am allergic to

> everything outside, so rarely am outside.) I used to do most of my

> 'sun-sitting' in FL, and when I lived down there my symptoms were a

> lot better. (I live now in PA - but even when I would visit FL, after

> living in PA for awhile, I would feel a lot better in FL after sitting

> in the sun. Sitting in the sun in PA did not have near the effect as

> it did in FL ).

> Is the Vitamin D that is taken in by the body from sunlight 'handled'

> in a different way than a supplement? (BTW, I have a Sperti sunlamp,

> which I got in the hopes that I could get Vitamin D from that, and do

> sit in front of that, and yet feel no effect - either pro or con -

> from it after at least 8-9 months.)

> I have rapidly progressing osteoporosis, which I think is due in part

> to the lack of Vit D. I think also that the pain in my muscles and

> bones could be due partly to the lack of Vit D.

> Any suggestions on how to get D into my body ? Would the emulsified

> form more than likely have a negative impact, since 'regular' D3

> supplements have an adverse impact? (I looked at the ingredients of

> the Bio-D-Emulsion - water, sesame oil, and acacia - which I think

> is a type of thorn tree - so which one is the source of its D3? I

> thought - perhaps incorrectly - that the only sources of D3 were of

> animal origin?)

> I have tried numerous times to start the Vit D VERY low, and would

> even skip 2-3 days in between doses, but cannot take it without

> becoming almost incapcitated. Any suggestions from anyone would be

> appreciated - Les

> Re: Re: Vitamin D

>

>

> Hi Les,

>

> Do you have the same response to sitting in the sun?

>

> Blake

>

> Masland wrote:

>

> > Ellen - thanks for the info on the emulsified Vitamin D. I have a

> > terrible worsening of all CFIDS symptoms when I take even the

> > slightest bit (just a little out of a 400 IU cap) of Vit D (and I am

> > terribly low in Vit D, per lab tests). If the D were emulsified,

> thus

> > providing better absorption by the body, wouldn't this create an even

> > greater reaction to ingesting D? (has anyone had adverse reactions to

> > taking tiny bits of D, that were helped by emulsified D?) (I also do

> > not respond well to fish of any sort, and that includes fish oil

> > contained in some Vit D capsules. But I react even to dry Vit D).

> > Thanks for any input from anyone - I would LOVE to get my D levels

> up,

> > because I think many of my symptoms could potentially be coming from

> > low D. Les

[Guest guest]

Hi Blake,

Do you have any idea what would be the time period to produce same amounts

of vit d behind a window glass?

I sometimes can not go out during winter time and also can not open the

window and sit there for 20 minutes.

Trying to estimate the time I have to spend behind window glasses.

best wishes

nil

Re: Re: Vitamin D

> Hi Les,

>

> Just thinking outloud here. What does that tell us that you can't

> tolerate even small amounts of vitamin D oraly but you can tolerate

> vitamin D via sun exposure? I suppose that means that it is not raising

> vitamin D levels in your body that you are reacting to.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry I have no idea what effect sunligh passing through glass would

have on vitamin D production. Maybe Ken knows?

Blake

yildiz wrote:

> Hi Blake,

>

> Do you have any idea what would be the time period to produce same

> amounts

> of vit d behind a window glass?

> I sometimes can not go out during winter time and also can not open the

> window and sit there for 20 minutes.

> Trying to estimate the time I have to spend behind window glasses.

> best wishes

> nil

> Re: Re: Vitamin D

>

>

> > Hi Les,

> >

> > Just thinking outloud here. What does that tell us that you can't

> > tolerate even small amounts of vitamin D oraly but you can tolerate

> > vitamin D via sun exposure? I suppose that means that it is not raising

> > vitamin D levels in your body that you are reacting to.

> >

> >

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

> each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

> treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

from what I've read (if I can remember) little D is produced through glass.

Marcia

Re: Re: Vitamin D

>

>

> > Hi Les,

> >

> > Just thinking outloud here. What does that tell us that you can't

> > tolerate even small amounts of vitamin D oraly but you can tolerate

> > vitamin D via sun exposure? I suppose that means that it is not raising

> > vitamin D levels in your body that you are reacting to.

> >

> >

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

> each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

> treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes,I thought so,too. So,I was surprized with what Carol wrote. Than I am

really worried about my cat.

nil

Re: Re: Vitamin D

>

[Guest guest]

Here is what my Functional Med MD told me, and he studied this issue

quite a lot. Those who are chronically ill do not produce much vitamin

D even with good UV exposure (direct sunlight). I did not ask him for a

source on that, but in searching the web found that the elderly produce

very low levels of vitamin D with sun exposure, one site said an 80

year-old produces 50% of the amount produced by an 8 year-old child.

Well, given that the hormone levels of PWC are on par with those of

80-90 year-olds, I think this may be a clue about what is happening. We

just do not produce Vitamin D well, perhaps because it is actually a

hormone and not a vitamin, and we are in hormone-system melt-down, like

an elderly person.

He also said those in the US and EU/UK only have a few months of the

year during which it is even POSSIBLE for a sick PWC to get adequate UV

sunlight to produce vitamin D. And direct exposure at mid-day is

required. He says that during winter months even direct exposure is not

adequate, we just will not make much vitamin D.

I seriously doubt there is any significant production of vitamin D from

exposure through glass for a PWC as glass will cut out some of the UV

rays. Maybe this is one of the several reasons that some PWC fare

better in the southern latitudes.

--Kurt

Re: Re: Vitamin D

from what I've read (if I can remember) little D is produced through

glass.

Marcia

Re: Re: Vitamin D

>

>

> > Hi Les,

> >

> > Just thinking outloud here. What does that tell us that you can't

> > tolerate even small amounts of vitamin D oraly but you can

tolerate

> > vitamin D via sun exposure? I suppose that means that it is not

raising

> > vitamin D levels in your body that you are reacting to.

> >

> >

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with

> each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in

any

> treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here is a good website for Vitamin D.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james4.htm

Re: Re: Vitamin D

from what I've read (if I can remember) little D is produced through

glass.

Marcia

Re: Re: Vitamin D

>

>

> > Hi Les,

> >

> > Just thinking outloud here. What does that tell us that you can't

> > tolerate even small amounts of vitamin D oraly but you can

tolerate

> > vitamin D via sun exposure? I suppose that means that it is not

raising

> > vitamin D levels in your body that you are reacting to.

> >

> >

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with

> each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in

any

> treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kurt,

Would taking Cholecalciferol be the same thing as taking Vit D3?

thanks,

Nat

[Guest guest]

Yes, Cholecalciferol in fact IS vitamin D3, they are the same chemical.

But I do not know about absorption and form necessary.

--Kurt

SPAM-LOW: Re: Vitamin D

Kurt,

Would taking Cholecalciferol be the same thing as taking Vit D3?

thanks,

Nat

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

I just read Kurt's email regarding how his functional MD told him that those who

are chronically ill do not produce Vit D even with good UV exposure. It might be

that, when I sat in the sun in FL, that I was getting a whole lot more UV light

(and thus more of the building block for Vit D production) than I get from

sitting in the sun in PA, or from taking supplements (no, I do not have this

same reaction when I take other supplements). The lessening of CFIDS symptoms

from " FL sun-sitting' occurred no matter where I was in FL, whether on shore or

inland - so it wasn't being by the shore that was causing the beneficial effect.

I have been further south than FL, and being in the sun in those locations has

had an even greater (subjective) beneficial effect.

My body is producing almost NO hormones (as evidenced by certain lab tests over

the years), and is getting increasingly worse the older I get - so if Vit D is

indeed considered more of a hormone than a vitamin (as Kurt suggests), then

perhaps that is another reason why I am low in Vit D(i.e., the 'hormone

production route' is nonfunctional)

(I have tried sitting in sunlight coming in thru a window, and it has absolutely

no effect on me . I too have read that Vit d cannot be mfg'd by the body from

sun thru glass).

thank you for providing the websites below - I had read thru those websites

before buying the Sperti, and they have a lot of good info.

I hope that I am 'due' for another Vit D test in the not so distant future (if

my dr will humor me), so I can see if my subjective feeling abt there being no

effect is , in fact, supported by the lab result. Les

Re: Re: Vitamin D

>

>

> Hi Les,

>

> Do you have the same response to sitting in the sun?

>

> Blake

>

> Masland wrote:

>

> > Ellen - thanks for the info on the emulsified Vitamin D. I have a

> > terrible worsening of all CFIDS symptoms when I take even the

> > slightest bit (just a little out of a 400 IU cap) of Vit D (and I am

> > terribly low in Vit D, per lab tests). If the D were emulsified,

> thus

> > providing better absorption by the body, wouldn't this create an even

> > greater reaction to ingesting D? (has anyone had adverse reactions to

> > taking tiny bits of D, that were helped by emulsified D?) (I also do

> > not respond well to fish of any sort, and that includes fish oil

> > contained in some Vit D capsules. But I react even to dry Vit D).

> > Thanks for any input from anyone - I would LOVE to get my D levels

> up,

> > because I think many of my symptoms could potentially be coming from

> > low D. Les

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Vitamin D is a secosteroid (Latin: Seco, to cut, + steroid) i.e.,

the second ring or B ring is " cut " .

It is derived from a derivative of cholesterol – a 4-ringed structure

(ie, 7-dehydrocholesterol) to produce previtamin D, which is then

slowly converted to vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol).

7-dehydrocholesterol + UVB > opening of B ring > previtamin D3 > D3 >

25 D3 in liver > 1,25 D3 (the bio-available hormone) in kidney (which

is circulated by blood - endocrine production) and various peripheral

tissues and organs (where it is made locally - Autocrine/Paracrine

production)

There are many known reasons for decreased vitamin D absorption:

1. Decrease in Vit D receptors in gut, leading to decreased absorption

of Vit D (Riggs)

2. Decrease in 1 & #945;-hydroxylase activity which converts 25 D to 1,25 D

in kidney and peripheral tissues. Kidney damage of any kind can

impair the final endocrine conversion of 25 D3> 1,24 D3. (see DeLuca 2004)

3. Loss of Vit D synthesis due to decreased sunlight in older people

(behaviourally, they spend less time in the sun because they are

housebound due to physical mobility problems)

4. Loss of Vit D synthesis due to inadequate nutritional consumption

of Vitamin D. Very few foods have significant Vitamin D.

5. Age-related decreases in vitamin D absorption and dermal synthesis

[Eastell and Riggs, 1997; Lips et al., 2001].

6. Northerly latitudes reduce Vit D absorption (unable to produce Vit

D for many months of the winter, and progressively less Vit D for

shorter periods of time in the spring and fall)

7. Intestinal Resistance to Vitamin D – similar to insulin resistance.

Receptors " retreat " for as yet unknown reasons, not allowing available

Vitamin D to enter cells. (See Pattanaungkul et al and 12-15)

8. Darker –skinned individuals require more time in the sun to produce

equivalent amounts of Vitamin D. Darker skin/tanned skin probably

developed as protective mechanisms against the potential damage of

excessive UV radiation.

9. Time of Day

10. Season of year

11. Ozone, smog/pollution and other atmospheric filters of UV

12. Obesity – (see Arunabh et al.) –). " The low levels of 25-OHD in

obesity have been attributed to multiple factors like decreased

exposure to sunlight because of limited mobility, negative feedback

from elevated 1,25-hydroxyvitamin D and PTH levels on hepatic

synthesis of 25-OHD , and excessive storage of vitamin D in the

adipose tissue "

Best Wishes,

Carole

Citations

Spach KM, CE. (2005) Vitamin D3 Confers Protection from

Autoimmune Encephalomyelitis Only in Female Mice The Journal of

Immunology 175: 4119–4126.

Riggs BL. (2003) Role of the Vitamin D-Endocrine System in the

Pathophysiology of Postmenopausal Osteoporosis. Journal of Cellular

Biochemistry 88:209–215

Pattanaungkul S, Riggs BL, Yergey AL, Vieira NE, O'Fallon WM, Khosla

S. (2000). Relationship of intestinal calcium absorption to

1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D [1,25(OH)2D] levels in young versus elderly

women: Evidence for age-related intestinal resistance to 1,25(OH)2D

action. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism 85:4023–4027.

Eastell R, Riggs BL. 1997. Vitamin D and osteoporosis. In:Feldman D,

Glorieux FH, Pike JW, editors. Vitamin D. San Diego: Academic Press.

pp 695–711.

Ireland P, Fordtran JS. 1973. Effect of dietary calcium and age on

jejunal calcium absorption in humans studied by intestinal perfusion.

J Clin Invest 52:2672–2681.

Riggs BL, KI. 1985. Effect of long-term treatment with

calcitriol on calcium absorption and mineral metabolism in

postmenopausal osteoporosis. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and

Metabolism 61:457–461

Lips P, Graafmans WC, Ooms ME, Bezemer PD, Bouter LM. 1996. Vitamin D

supplementation and fracture incidence in elderly persons. A

randomized, placebocontrolled clinical trial. ls of Internal

Medicine 124:400–406.

Gallagher JC, Fowler SE, Detter JR, Sherman SS. (2001). Combination

treatment with estrogen and calcitriol in the prevention of

age-related bone loss. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and

Metabolism 86:3618–3628.

DeLuca HF. (2004) Overview of general physiologic features and

functions of vitamin D. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

80(suppl):1689S–1696S.

Heaney RP, Recker RR, Saville PD (1978) Menopausal changes in calcium

balance performance. J Lab Clin Med 92:953–963.

SONIA ARUNABH, SIMCHA POLLACK, JAMES YEH, JOHN F. ALOIA. (2003)

Body Fat Content and 25-Hydroxyvitamin D Levels in Healthy Women. The

Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism 88(1):157–161

12. Francis RM, Peacock M, GA, Storer JH, Nordin BEC (1984)

Calcium malabsorption in elderly women with vertebral fractures:

evidence for resistance to the action of vitamin D metabolites on the

bowel. Clin Sci 66:103–107

13. Horst RL, Goff JP, Reinhardt TA (1990) Advancing age results in

reduction of intestinal and bone 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D receptor.

Endocrinology 126: 1053–1057

14. Eastell R, Yergey AL, Vieira NE, Cedel SL, Kumar R, Riggs BL

(1991) Interrelationship among vitamin D metabolism, true calcium

absorption, parathyroid function, and age in women: evidence of an

age-related intestinal resistance to 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D action. J

Bone Miner Res 6:125–132

15. Ebeling PR, Sandgren ME, DiMagno EP, Lane AW, DeLuca HF, Riggs BL

(1992) Evidence of an age-related decrease in intestinal

responsiveness to vitamin D: relationship between serum

1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 and intestinal vitamin D receptor

concentrations in normal women. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 75:176–182

> >

> > > Ellen - thanks for the info on the emulsified Vitamin D. I

have a

> > > terrible worsening of all CFIDS symptoms when I take even the

> > > slightest bit (just a little out of a 400 IU cap) of Vit D

(and I am

> > > terribly low in Vit D, per lab tests). If the D were

emulsified,

> > thus

> > > providing better absorption by the body, wouldn't this

create an even

> > > greater reaction to ingesting D? (has anyone had adverse

reactions to

> > > taking tiny bits of D, that were helped by emulsified D?) (I

also do

> > > not respond well to fish of any sort, and that includes fish oil

> > > contained in some Vit D capsules. But I react even to dry

Vit D).

> > > Thanks for any input from anyone - I would LOVE to get my D

levels

> > up,

> > > because I think many of my symptoms could potentially be

coming from

> > > low D. Les

>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in

any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Carole- thank you for all this info! Certainly provides a number of possible

explanations as to why Vit D absorption might be impaired - Le

Re: Vitamin D

Vitamin D is a secosteroid (Latin: Seco, to cut, + steroid) i.e.,

the second ring or B ring is " cut " .

It is derived from a derivative of cholesterol - a 4-ringed structure

(ie, 7-dehydrocholesterol) to produce previtamin D, which is then

slowly converted to vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol).

7-dehydrocholesterol + UVB > opening of B ring > previtamin D3 > D3 >

25 D3 in liver > 1,25 D3 (the bio-available hormone) in kidney (which

is circulated by blood - endocrine production) and various peripheral

tissues and organs (where it is made locally - Autocrine/Paracrine

production)

There are many known reasons for decreased vitamin D absorption:

1. Decrease in Vit D receptors in gut, leading to decreased absorption

of Vit D (Riggs)

2. Decrease in 1 & #945;-hydroxylase activity which converts 25 D to 1,25 D

in kidney and peripheral tissues. Kidney damage of any kind can

impair the final endocrine conversion of 25 D3> 1,24 D3. (see DeLuca 2004)

3. Loss of Vit D synthesis due to decreased sunlight in older people

(behaviourally, they spend less time in the sun because they are

housebound due to physical mobility problems)

4. Loss of Vit D synthesis due to inadequate nutritional consumption

of Vitamin D. Very few foods have significant Vitamin D.

5. Age-related decreases in vitamin D absorption and dermal synthesis

[Eastell and Riggs, 1997; Lips et al., 2001].

6. Northerly latitudes reduce Vit D absorption (unable to produce Vit

D for many months of the winter, and progressively less Vit D for

shorter periods of time in the spring and fall)

7. Intestinal Resistance to Vitamin D - similar to insulin resistance.

Receptors " retreat " for as yet unknown reasons, not allowing available

Vitamin D to enter cells. (See Pattanaungkul et al and 12-15)

8. Darker -skinned individuals require more time in the sun to produce

equivalent amounts of Vitamin D. Darker skin/tanned skin probably

developed as protective mechanisms against the potential damage of

excessive UV radiation.

9. Time of Day

10. Season of year

11. Ozone, smog/pollution and other atmospheric filters of UV

12. Obesity - (see Arunabh et al.) -). " The low levels of 25-OHD in

obesity have been attributed to multiple factors like decreased

exposure to sunlight because of limited mobility, negative feedback

from elevated 1,25-hydroxyvitamin D and PTH levels on hepatic

synthesis of 25-OHD , and excessive storage of vitamin D in the

adipose tissue "

Best Wishes,

Carole

Citations

Spach KM, CE. (2005) Vitamin D3 Confers Protection from

Autoimmune Encephalomyelitis Only in Female Mice The Journal of

Immunology 175: 4119-4126.

Riggs BL. (2003) Role of the Vitamin D-Endocrine System in the

Pathophysiology of Postmenopausal Osteoporosis. Journal of Cellular

Biochemistry 88:209-215

Pattanaungkul S, Riggs BL, Yergey AL, Vieira NE, O'Fallon WM, Khosla

S. (2000). Relationship of intestinal calcium absorption to

1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D [1,25(OH)2D] levels in young versus elderly

women: Evidence for age-related intestinal resistance to 1,25(OH)2D

action. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism 85:4023-4027.

Eastell R, Riggs BL. 1997. Vitamin D and osteoporosis. In:Feldman D,

Glorieux FH, Pike JW, editors. Vitamin D. San Diego: Academic Press.

pp 695-711.

Ireland P, Fordtran JS. 1973. Effect of dietary calcium and age on

jejunal calcium absorption in humans studied by intestinal perfusion.

J Clin Invest 52:2672-2681.

Riggs BL, KI. 1985. Effect of long-term treatment with

calcitriol on calcium absorption and mineral metabolism in

postmenopausal osteoporosis. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and

Metabolism 61:457-461

Lips P, Graafmans WC, Ooms ME, Bezemer PD, Bouter LM. 1996. Vitamin D

supplementation and fracture incidence in elderly persons. A

randomized, placebocontrolled clinical trial. ls of Internal

Medicine 124:400-406.

Gallagher JC, Fowler SE, Detter JR, Sherman SS. (2001). Combination

treatment with estrogen and calcitriol in the prevention of

age-related bone loss. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and

Metabolism 86:3618-3628.

DeLuca HF. (2004) Overview of general physiologic features and

functions of vitamin D. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

80(suppl):1689S-1696S.

Heaney RP, Recker RR, Saville PD (1978) Menopausal changes in calcium

balance performance. J Lab Clin Med 92:953-963.

SONIA ARUNABH, SIMCHA POLLACK, JAMES YEH, JOHN F. ALOIA. (2003)

Body Fat Content and 25-Hydroxyvitamin D Levels in Healthy Women. The

Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism 88(1):157-161

12. Francis RM, Peacock M, GA, Storer JH, Nordin BEC (1984)

Calcium malabsorption in elderly women with vertebral fractures:

evidence for resistance to the action of vitamin D metabolites on the

bowel. Clin Sci 66:103-107

13. Horst RL, Goff JP, Reinhardt TA (1990) Advancing age results in

reduction of intestinal and bone 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D receptor.

Endocrinology 126: 1053-1057

14. Eastell R, Yergey AL, Vieira NE, Cedel SL, Kumar R, Riggs BL

(1991) Interrelationship among vitamin D metabolism, true calcium

absorption, parathyroid function, and age in women: evidence of an

age-related intestinal resistance to 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D action. J

Bone Miner Res 6:125-132

15. Ebeling PR, Sandgren ME, DiMagno EP, Lane AW, DeLuca HF, Riggs BL

(1992) Evidence of an age-related decrease in intestinal

responsiveness to vitamin D: relationship between serum

1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 and intestinal vitamin D receptor

concentrations in normal women. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 75:176-182

> >

> > > Ellen - thanks for the info on the emulsified Vitamin D. I

have a

> > > terrible worsening of all CFIDS symptoms when I take even the

> > > slightest bit (just a little out of a 400 IU cap) of Vit D

(and I am

> > > terribly low in Vit D, per lab tests). If the D were

emulsified,

> > thus

> > > providing better absorption by the body, wouldn't this

create an even

> > > greater reaction to ingesting D? (has anyone had adverse

reactions to

> > > taking tiny bits of D, that were helped by emulsified D?) (I

also do

> > > not respond well to fish of any sort, and that includes fish oil

> > > contained in some Vit D capsules. But I react even to dry

Vit D).

> > > Thanks for any input from anyone - I would LOVE to get my D

levels

> > up,

> > > because I think many of my symptoms could potentially be

coming from

> > > low D. Les

>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in

any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nat

My new doc put me on Vitamin D3, 5,000 iu daily, in July. Vit D3 is

inexpensively available in your local supermarket.

ANother option is cod liver oil. (Not fish oil).

Hope this helps

mjh

In a message dated 10/25/2005 7:05:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

writes:

Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:46:09 -0000

From: " natellite " <natellite@...>

Subject: Vitamin D

Hi,

We've discussed Vitamin D in the past and my 25HYDR Vit D results came

back on the low side at 4(25-200), my doc wants to get my levels up

to 100.

He rec'd 1000-2000iu/day until June and I'm wondering which supplement

is the best.

thanks,

Nat

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

[Guest guest]

Nat

Fish oil is a good source of the essential fatty acids, EPA and DHA

Cod liver oil is a good source of vitamins A and D

So, in order to get the benefit of vitamin D, you need to take cod liver oil

in addition to fish oil. I take both..

Read the labels on the products for their nutrient content.

Hope this helps

mjh

In a message dated 10/25/2005 7:05:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

writes:

From: " natellite " <natellite@...>

Subject: Re: Vitamin D

Thanks, Marcia. I do take fish oils almost daily but it doesn't

seem to be enough.

Do the supplements you take specifically say D3 on the label?

Nat

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

[Guest guest]

If your calcium levels are messed up - could this reduce vit D absorption?

regards

CS

[Guest guest]

I wouldnt add any hormones until you have done the fundamentals first ie:

1) Increase Glautathione

2) Wiped out any remaining infections

3) Balanced your electolytes

[Guest guest]

> What she discussed was that one of the contributing factors

> to osteoporosis was the fact that any calcium women were getting

> wasn't getting assimilated into the bones, resulting in bone

> loss. Vitamin D assists in the assimilation of calcium.

As well as magnesium, which if you take a multivitamin covers both

bases along with what you eat. Most vitamin D in a multi is 100% of

your RDA so anything you extra from the sun or food products

fortified with vitamin D (like milk and many cereals) would be an

extra besides those other food sources like 'fatty' fish (salmon, for

one example).

Another good reason to take a daily multivitamin and eat a good well

balanced amount of foods. :-)

Btw lifting weights also increases bone density and wards off

osteoporosis....

joni

------------------------------------------------------

*who just watched the 'Aeon Flux' movie and wow Charlize Theron was

in incredible shape to play her part!*

[Guest guest]

My multivitamin doesn't have anywhere near the recommended daily dose

of calcium

Also, I have read that we only assimilate 500mgs of calcium at a time,

so it is recommended to take the 1,500mg per day as 3 500mg servings,

with meals throughout the day. Vitamin C is a help in absorbtion too.

Good Luck.

> > What she discussed was that one of the contributing factors

> > to osteoporosis was the fact that any calcium women were getting

> > wasn't getting assimilated into the bones, resulting in bone

> > loss. Vitamin D assists in the assimilation of calcium.

>

> As well as magnesium, which if you take a multivitamin covers both

> bases along with what you eat. Most vitamin D in a multi is 100% of

> your RDA so anything you extra from the sun or food products

> fortified with vitamin D (like milk and many cereals) would be an

> extra besides those other food sources like 'fatty' fish (salmon, for

> one example).

> Another good reason to take a daily multivitamin and eat a good well

> balanced amount of foods. :-)

>

> Btw lifting weights also increases bone density and wards off

> osteoporosis....

>

>

>

>

> joni

>

> ------------------------------------------------------

> *who just watched the 'Aeon Flux' movie and wow Charlize Theron was

> in incredible shape to play her part!*

>

[Guest guest]

Vitamin D

Posted by: "dorothymclaughlin1" dmclaughlin@... dorothymclaughlin1

Response to:

I am afraid that my patients are getting to much Vitamin D from supplements. They are getting it from the Calcium Citrate + D. What is the upper limit that they should be getting?Thanks,Dorothy McLaughlin, RDFinger Lakes Weight Loss Program

The DRI for Vitamin D is going to be reviewed, so it is likely that it will increase for most of the general population. Now the upper limit is 2,000 IU's, but Heaney and Hollick (and others) have shown that levels of up to 10,000 are safe.

The key to knowing whether or not your patients are getting enough Vitamin D, is to test the levels both pre and post-operatively. The latter should probably be two seasonal reads, but annually is better than nothing. There is ample research to show this population has D deficiency before surgery...it should be corrected before surgery and monitored.

I believe if your patients are taking 2 MVI's they would be getting 800 IU's (total) depending on the formula. And the D in the Calcium Citrate varies, but would be about 500 - 600 IU's. This amount 1300 to 1400 IU should be more than enough for maintenance along with the small amount they get from fish and dairy. If they are deficient, however, this would not be enough to replete and they would need significantly higher levels.

Be sure to read the serving size on the calcium with D, it often is 2 or more pills to meet the levels listed on the label.

Jeanne Blankenship

University of California,

[Guest guest]

The upper limit for Vitamin D is 2000. Interestingly, a lot of patients

seem to come in with low vitamin D levels initially. I have a question

on magnesium. I noticed that patients seem to be taking calcium with

magnesium added. Has anyone noticed any problems from too much

magnesium?

Thanks.

Ann

>

> I am afraid that my patients are getting to much Vitamin D from

> supplements. They are getting it from the Calcium Citrate + D. What

> is the upper limit that they should be getting?

> Thanks,

> Dorothy McLaughlin, RD

> Finger Lakes Weight Loss Program

>

[Guest guest]

We are finding patients are never getting enough D. There is recent lit re: Vit D and everyone, even non bariatric folks needing more. I would have to find the reference. Our patients are always deficient, we recommend minimum 2500 IUs/day and sometimes more. I also know there is data re: obese pts in general being deficient pre op. I think the upper limits now are in the high thousands (10,000) and more. If I can find the exact articles, I will send them... Mandy

Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

From ls of Surgery

The Long-term Effects of Gastric Bypass on Vitamin D Metabolism

M. , DO; W. Maher, MD; J. De, MD;

W. Downs, MD; Luke G. Wolfe, BS; M. Kellum, MD

Abstract and Introduction

Abstract

Objective: Alterations of the endocrine system in patients following

Roux-en-Y gastric bypass (GBP) are poorly described and have

prompted us to perform a longitudinal study of the effects of GBP on

serum calcium, 25-hydroxy-vitamin-D (vitamin D), and parathyroid

hormone (PTH).

Methods: Prospectively collected data were compiled to determine how

GBP affects serum calcium, vitamin D, and PTH. Student t test,

Fisher exact test, or linear regression was used to determine

significance.

Results: Calcium, vitamin D, and PTH levels were drawn on 243

patients following GBP. Forty-one patients had long-limb bypass (LL-

GBP), Roux >100 cm, and 202 had short-limb bypass (SL-GBP), Roux & #8804;

100 cm. The mean (±SD) postoperative follow-up time was

significantly longer in the LL-GBP group (5.7 ± 2.5 years) than the

SL-GBP group (3.1 ± 3.6 years, P < 0.0001). When corrected for

albumin levels, mean calcium was 9.3 mg/dL (range, 8.5–10.8 mg/dL),

and no difference existed between LL-GBP and SL-GBP patients. For

patients with low vitamin D levels (<8.9 ng/mL), 88.9% had elevated

PTH (>65 pg/mL) and 58.0% of patients with normal vitamin D levels ( & #8805;

8.9 ng/mL) had elevated PTH (P < 0.0001). In individuals with

vitamin D levels <30 ng/mL, 55.1% (n = 103) had elevated PTH, and of

those with vitamin D levels & #8805;30 ng/mL 28.5% (n = 16) had elevated

PTH (P = 0.0007). Mean vitamin D levels were lower in patients who

had undergone LL-GBP as opposed to those with SL-GBP, 16.8 ± 10.8

ng/mL versus 22.7 ± 11.1 ng/mL (P = 0.0022), and PTH was

significantly higher in patients who had a LL-GBP (113.5 ± 88.0

pg/mL versus 74.5 ± 52.7 pg/mL, P = 0.0002). There was a linear

decrease in vitamin D (P = 0.005) coupled with a linear increase in

PTH (P < 0.0001) the longer patients were followed after GBP.

Alkaline phosphatase levels were elevated in 40.3% of patients and

correlated with PTH levels.

Conclusion: Vitamin D deficiency and elevated PTH are common

following GBP and progress over time. There is a significant

incidence of secondary hyperparathyroidism in short-limb GBP

patients, even those with vitamin D levels & #8805;30 ng/mL, suggesting

selective Ca2+ malabsorption. Thus, calcium malabsorption is

inherent to gastric bypass. Careful calcium and vitamin D

supplementation and long-term screening are necessary to prevent

deficiencies and the sequelae of secondary hyperparathyroidism.

Ava

Lap RNY 4/21/04

245/100

The Ohio State UNiv. Medical Ctr.

>

> We are finding patients are never getting enough D. There is

recent lit re: Vit D and everyone, even non bariatric folks needing

more. I would have to find the reference. Our patients are always

deficient, we recommend minimum 2500 IUs/day and sometimes more. I

also know there is data re: obese pts in general being deficient pre

op. I think the upper limits now are in the high thousands (10,000)

and more. If I can find the exact articles, I will send them...

Mandy

>

> ---------------------------------

> Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.

Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

>

[Guest guest]

To much Magnesium can cause Diarrhea. Stuart Hope Bariatricsmannfrd <mannfrd@...> wrote: The upper limit for Vitamin D is 2000. Interestingly, a lot of patients seem to come in with low vitamin D levels initially. I have a question on magnesium. I noticed that patients seem to be taking calcium with magnesium added. Has anyone noticed any problems from too much magnesium?Thanks.Ann>> I am afraid that my patients are getting to much Vitamin D from > supplements. They are getting it from the Calcium Citrate + D. What > is the upper limit that they should be getting?> Thanks,> Dorothy McLaughlin, RD> Finger Lakes Weight Loss Program>

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[Guest guest]

I have never heard of that, but Vit D does seem to play a role in immunity and has been in the news lately due to some recent research. I had posted something a while back about negative effects of too much D too. I think everyone agrees one of the best ways to get D is to go out in the sun for a while when it's close to noon. Well that's for up here in the North, not sure about down south! Don't want to fry, just bake a little. ;-)I give a 1/4 tsp of cod liver oil for her D. It's a natural source which I think is better all around. As for absorption- you would have to give blood tests to determine if it's being absorbed or not. We also did stool testing to measure absorption of foods. SCD did improve her absorption rate. Sherry is the queen of absorption issues....I found some research about vitamin D helping with hair Loss. And wanted to see if any one had any opinions on this

or has used it?? What is a good dosage ?? And as far as absorption. If a child may not be absorbing vitamins or food vitamins well. What should be your next step?? Carol P. AIM iammamapie Carol in IL AIM doihavtasay1Mom to seven including , 6 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and DS.My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me. Join our Down Syndrome information group - Down Syndrome Treatment/ Listen to oldest dd's music http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic

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