Protein

August 19, 2005

could be mercury in the fish too.

Marcia

Re: protein

I was feeling fine and I ate only a can of sardines thinking the

protein would make me feel good but I am now shaking, ears ringing and

headache starting. The sardines were in mustard sauce and I cannot find

the lid to see what was in that.

I also wonder if possibly something in the sardines, such as ciguatera

epitope, would cause the reaction?

Bob

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

August 19, 2005

I thought about that but aren't sardines most likely to not have much

mercury since they are small and not eaten by larger fish?

Bob

> could be mercury in the fish too.

>

> Marcia

> Re: protein

>

> I was feeling fine and I ate only a can of sardines thinking the

> protein would make me feel good but I am now shaking, ears

ringing and

> headache starting. The sardines were in mustard sauce and I

cannot find

> the lid to see what was in that.

>

> I also wonder if possibly something in the sardines, such as

ciguatera

> epitope, would cause the reaction?

>

> Bob

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested

in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

August 19, 2005

I don't think sardines are much of a mercury risk. I'd be thinking

about the mustard sauce, maybe there was some MSG in there.

Helen

> > could be mercury in the fish too.

> >

> > Marcia

> > Re: protein

> >

> > I was feeling fine and I ate only a can of sardines thinking

the

> > protein would make me feel good but I am now shaking, ears

> ringing and

> > headache starting. The sardines were in mustard sauce and I

> cannot find

> > the lid to see what was in that.

> >

> > I also wonder if possibly something in the sardines, such as

> ciguatera

> > epitope, would cause the reaction?

> >

> > Bob

> >

> > This list is intended for patients to share personal

experiences

> with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested

> in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

> >

August 19, 2005

Bob...From what I've read, once you are overexposed to ciguatera, even

the tiniest amount of ciguatoxin will cause you to have a flareup of

symptoms. Might also be mercury. Or sardine allergy or mustard allergy.

Proteolytic digestive enzymes will reduce an allergic reaction.

Allergies increase acid. Also Alka Seltzer Gold (contains a combination

of salt and potassium) will give you relief. If you don't have Alka

Seltzer Gold, a fourth of a teaspoon of salt, a fourth of a teaspoon of

potassium, a cup of water and a cup of seltzer water combined (

Cheney's formula) does the same. Vickie

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 20:45:10 -0000 " Bob " <blue74730@...> writes:

> I was feeling fine and I ate only a can of sardines thinking the

> protein would make me feel good but I am now shaking, ears ringing

> and

> headache starting. The sardines were in mustard sauce and I cannot

> find

> the lid to see what was in that.

>

> I also wonder if possibly something in the sardines, such as

> ciguatera

> epitope, would cause the reaction?

>

> Bob

>

August 19, 2005

I wonder if digestive enzymes would help. My doc prescribed it for me but

you can buy it OTC. I think it helps me. Also supposed to breakdown the

endotoxins. Please don't ask me to explain this as I only know what doc

tells me.

Gail

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of yildiz

Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 1:03 PM

Subject: Re: protein

Yes,I am having vegetable proteins. mainly beans,lentils.. I have problems

in digesting nuts.I eat them then I see them in my stool as pieces just in

the same form as they leave my mouth.(Sorry for the description.).So,I am

not sure how much of them is digested. That is really unbelievable.My stool

is full of different distinct colors and forms.Nuts,tomato skins,parts of

watermelons,corn,skins of beans,even sometimes green vegetable leaves.(Again

sorry! But this is the only place I feel not so uncomfortable in describing

such things. I am sure you will understand.)I am still trying to solve the

puzzle. I am not sure what the problem is. Is this only stomach acid and

/or bile problem or something else? I sometimes think if my stomach muscles

don't work well to break food into smaller pieces.Thanks for asking this

question to me. I had a chance of concentrating on this problem. Also,may be

someone in the group can shed a light on this.

Thanks.

Nil

Re: protein

What about vegetable proteins, can you eat them? Peanuts, soy, etc?

Doris

August 19, 2005

Bob...something else that has helped me when I reacted to fish is peeling

a lemon and eating the whole thing, sprinkling it liberally with salt as

I eat it. Sounds awful, but it has worked for me. A little bit like the

Salt plus Vitamin C Protocol, I guess. Vickie

August 19, 2005

Hi, Nil.

Thanks for getting specific! This certainly doesn't sound very

good, and I doubt if you are getting much nutritional value from

your food under these circumstances.

I would say that there is more than one malfunction in your

gastrointestinal system, based on what you reported.

First, in normal, healthy people, the stomach breaks down the food

particles to sizes less than about 2 millimeters before it allows

them to pass through the pyloric sphincter and into the duodenum.

If it is unable to break something down that small, it normally

retains it for about two hours, and then dumps it into the

duodenum. From what you reported, it sounds as though you have a

lot of pieces of material passing through your GI tract that are

quite a bit larger than this. I think this means that the stomach

is not breaking the food down as small as it should, just as you

suspect. I'm not sure why it isn't. Perhaps the stomach muscles

are not able to contract enough to do this, or perhaps there is some

problem in the control mechanism for these muscles.

Even if your stomach is not breaking down the food particles

properly, I would expect that if your digestion were operating

properly, that would still break things down more than what you are

observing. Therefore, I suspect that your digestion is also not

working properly. This suggests that the pancreas is not secreting

enough digestive enzymes. This might be due to a problem with the

pancreas itself or with the ducts that carry the digestive juice

from the pancreas to the duodenum. It might also be due to a

failure of the secretin signal to be sent to the pancreas by the

cells in the duodenum responsible for this. Such a failure in turn

may be due to a lack of stomach acid reaching the duodenum, perhaps

because of a shortage of secretion of stomach acid by the parietal

cells.

I suggest that you run some experiments, if you haven't already done

them. First, run the baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) test to see

if your stomach is producing enough acid. To do this, on an empty

stomach, drink a glass of water into which you have dissolved one-

quarter teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). Keep track of

the time it takes before you burp. You should burp in less than two

minutes if you are making enough stomach acid.

The second experiment is this: With your next meal, drink a lot of

lemon juice. This is about the most acidic thing you can drink.

When this food reaches your duodenum, it should have plenty of acid

to trigger the secretion of secretin. If the pancreas and ducts are

in good shape, you should get plenty of digestive juice secreted

from the pancreas into the duodenum, and that should give you better

digestion. If you know what your usual transit time is through your

GI tract (you can measure this by eating something like corn and

measuring how long before the kernals arrive in your stools), then

you can observe your stools at the right time to see if the food you

ate with the lemon juice is broken down better or not. That will

tell you if your pancreas is working O.K. or not.

The third experiment is to take a lot of digestive enzymes with a

meal and then monitor the stools after the appropriate transit time

to see if the food is better broken down. Use a good combination of

digestive enzymes (amylase, lipase and protease), including both

plant-based (papain, rutin and bromelain) and animal-based

(pancreatic) protease enzymes. This should give you better

digestion even if both the stomach and the pancreas are not

functioning properly. If this still doesn't do it, then I would

suspect that in addition to the problems with the stomach and the

pancreas, you also have hypermotility of the gut (food moves through

too fast to be digested).

I think that if you run these experiments you will be able to learn

something about what is going on with your gastrointestinal system.

Rich

> Yes,I am having vegetable proteins. mainly beans,lentils.. I have

problems

> in digesting nuts.I eat them then I see them in my stool as pieces

just in

> the same form as they leave my mouth.(Sorry for the

description.).So,I am

> not sure how much of them is digested. That is really

unbelievable.My stool

> is full of different distinct colors and forms.Nuts,tomato

skins,parts of

> watermelons,corn,skins of beans,even sometimes green vegetable

leaves.(Again

> sorry! But this is the only place I feel not so uncomfortable in

describing

> such things. I am sure you will understand.)I am still trying to

solve the

> puzzle. I am not sure what the problem is. Is this only stomach

acid and

> /or bile problem or something else? I sometimes think if my

stomach muscles

> don't work well to break food into smaller pieces.Thanks for

asking this

> question to me. I had a chance of concentrating on this problem.

Also,may be

> someone in the group can shed a light on this.

>

> Thanks.

> Nil

August 20, 2005

Hi id be interested if anyone has suggestions for the digestion issues that

Nil has?

August 20, 2005

I had a similar exp after eating a meal consisting of mush rooms. Next day I

woke up feeling extremely toxic. Extreme headaches,feeling toxic,etc. I

cooked it so no foreign substances. I wonder if this could be due to candida

problem. Fed my candida?

Best wishes

Nil

Re: protein

>

> I was feeling fine and I ate only a can of sardines thinking the

> protein would make me feel good but I am now shaking, ears

ringing and

> headache starting. The sardines were in mustard sauce and I

cannot find

> the lid to see what was in that.

>

> I also wonder if possibly something in the sardines, such as

ciguatera

> epitope, would cause the reaction?

>

> Bob

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested

in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

August 20, 2005

Thanks Rich,

That really was a great answer. Hope I can manage to do these in short

time.

Just one more note. I also have great difficulty with my bowels. I never

empty my bowels in a normal way. When I wake up I am having 4 or 5 dried

apricots than have big glass of water. Shortly afterwards I am having 1

teaspoonful (not heaped)of psyllium seed again with big glass of water. I

than walk around the house for some time to help and that helps most of the

time.If I can not do these for some reason I can not empty my bowels.Normal

process did not happen within the last 6 or 7 months. before that time it

was even worse. These also wouldn't help and I had to take enema everyother

day.(one day no bowel movement,second day enema). Please don't tell me to

take colonoscopy or any other hospital test:)) Just no energy for that.

best wishes.Nil

Re: protein

> Hi, Nil.

>

> Thanks for getting specific! This certainly doesn't sound very

> good, and I doubt if you are getting much nutritional value from

> your food under these circumstances.

>

August 20, 2005

Rich,

Some further info. I am also urinating very little.Don't know where all that

water that I am drinking goes away.Wonder if I also have problems with my

kidneys.Last week I had some standard tests done.Standard urine and blood

tests. Results seem to be within the limits although some of them may be

closer to top or bottom limit. I can not evaluate those as I am not an

expert. There were only two tests which were out of limits. Those were -in

serum test-chloride(high),direct,indirect and total bilirubins(low),total

protein(low),LDL(marked by the lab but within the limits, was 114

mg/dl(limits being 80-160). My sodium is close to high limit and potassium

close to low limit both both are within the limits.Other than that there

were no abnormalities in other blood or urine tests. I wonder if standard

tests would be sufficient to check for kidney functioning. Do you know any

of the standard blood or urine tests which would definitely indicate poor

kidney function? Can I be sure that my kidneys are functioning well if

standard tests look okay?

Thanks.

nil

Re: protein

> Hi, Nil.

>

> Thanks for getting specific! This certainly doesn't sound very

> good, and I doubt if you are getting much nutritional value from

> your food under these circumstances.

>

> I would say that there is more than one malfunction in your

> gastrointestinal system, based on what you reported.

>

> First, in normal, healthy people, the stomach breaks down the food

> particles to sizes less than about 2 millimeters before it allows

> them to pass through the pyloric sphincter and into the duodenum.

> If it is unable to break something down that small, it normally

> retains it for about two hours, and then dumps it into the

> duodenum. From what you reported, it sounds as though you have a

> lot of pieces of material passing through your GI tract that are

> quite a bit larger than this. I think this means that the stomach

> is not breaking the food down as small as it should, just as you

> suspect. I'm not sure why it isn't. Perhaps the stomach muscles

> are not able to contract enough to do this, or perhaps there is some

> problem in the control mechanism for these muscles.

>

> Even if your stomach is not breaking down the food particles

> properly, I would expect that if your digestion were operating

> properly, that would still break things down more than what you are

> observing. Therefore, I suspect that your digestion is also not

> working properly. This suggests that the pancreas is not secreting

> enough digestive enzymes. This might be due to a problem with the

> pancreas itself or with the ducts that carry the digestive juice

> from the pancreas to the duodenum. It might also be due to a

> failure of the secretin signal to be sent to the pancreas by the

> cells in the duodenum responsible for this. Such a failure in turn

> may be due to a lack of stomach acid reaching the duodenum, perhaps

> because of a shortage of secretion of stomach acid by the parietal

> cells.

>

> I suggest that you run some experiments, if you haven't already done

> them. First, run the baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) test to see

> if your stomach is producing enough acid. To do this, on an empty

> stomach, drink a glass of water into which you have dissolved one-

> quarter teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). Keep track of

> the time it takes before you burp. You should burp in less than two

> minutes if you are making enough stomach acid.

>

> The second experiment is this: With your next meal, drink a lot of

> lemon juice. This is about the most acidic thing you can drink.

> When this food reaches your duodenum, it should have plenty of acid

> to trigger the secretion of secretin. If the pancreas and ducts are

> in good shape, you should get plenty of digestive juice secreted

> from the pancreas into the duodenum, and that should give you better

> digestion. If you know what your usual transit time is through your

> GI tract (you can measure this by eating something like corn and

> measuring how long before the kernals arrive in your stools), then

> you can observe your stools at the right time to see if the food you

> ate with the lemon juice is broken down better or not. That will

> tell you if your pancreas is working O.K. or not.

>

> The third experiment is to take a lot of digestive enzymes with a

> meal and then monitor the stools after the appropriate transit time

> to see if the food is better broken down. Use a good combination of

> digestive enzymes (amylase, lipase and protease), including both

> plant-based (papain, rutin and bromelain) and animal-based

> (pancreatic) protease enzymes. This should give you better

> digestion even if both the stomach and the pancreas are not

> functioning properly. If this still doesn't do it, then I would

> suspect that in addition to the problems with the stomach and the

> pancreas, you also have hypermotility of the gut (food moves through

> too fast to be digested).

>

> I think that if you run these experiments you will be able to learn

> something about what is going on with your gastrointestinal system.

>

> Rich

>

>> Yes,I am having vegetable proteins. mainly beans,lentils.. I have

> problems

>> in digesting nuts.I eat them then I see them in my stool as pieces

> just in

>> the same form as they leave my mouth.(Sorry for the

> description.).So,I am

>> not sure how much of them is digested. That is really

> unbelievable.My stool

>> is full of different distinct colors and forms.Nuts,tomato

> skins,parts of

>> watermelons,corn,skins of beans,even sometimes green vegetable

> leaves.(Again

>> sorry! But this is the only place I feel not so uncomfortable in

> describing

>> such things. I am sure you will understand.)I am still trying to

> solve the

>> puzzle. I am not sure what the problem is. Is this only stomach

> acid and

>> /or bile problem or something else? I sometimes think if my

> stomach muscles

>> don't work well to break food into smaller pieces.Thanks for

> asking this

>> question to me. I had a chance of concentrating on this problem.

> Also,may be

>> someone in the group can shed a light on this.

>>

>> Thanks.

>> Nil

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

> other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

> discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

August 20, 2005

In a message dated 20/08/2005 10:49:50 GMT Standard Time, yildiz22@...

writes: