Guest guest Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Hi Rich, Don't know how to thank you for your interest in this subject and typing all this info. > ***I think that weak muscles could explain this. There are also > nervous system issues that could be involved. I'm going to type in > the section on " Defecation " from pp. 236-237 of Guyton's and Hall's > book on Medical Physiology. Perhaps you can figure out what part of > this does not seem to be working properly in your case: > > " Most of the time, the rectum is empty of feces. This results partly > from the fact that a weak functional sphincter exists about 20 cm > from the anus at the juncture between the sigmoid colon and the > rectum. There is also a sharp angulation here that contributes > additional resistance to filling of the rectum. When a mass > movement forces feces into the rectum, the desire for defecation is > normally initiated immediately, including reflex contraction of the > rectum and relaxation of the anal sphincters. > > " Continual dribble of fecal matter through the anus is prevented by > tonic contraction of (1) the internal anal sphincter, a several- > centimeters-long thickening of the circular smooth muscle that lies > immediately inside the anus, and (2) the external anal sphincter, > composed of striated voluntary muscle that both surrounds the > internal sphincter and extends distal to it [toward the anus]. The > external sphincter is controlled by nerve fibers to the pudendal > nerve, which is part of the somatic nervous system and therefore is > under voluntary, conscious, or at least subconscious control; > subconsciously it is usually kept continuously constricted unless > conscious signals inhibit the constriction. > > " Defecation reflexes: > Ordinarily, defecation is initiated by defecation reflexes. One of > these reflexes is an intrinsic reflex mediated by the local enteric > nervous system in the rectal wall. This can be described as > follows: When feces enter the rectum, distention of the rectal wall > initiates afferent signals that spread through the myenteric plexus > to initiate peristaltic waves in the descending colon, sigmoid and > rectum, forcing feces toward the anus. As the peristaltic wave > approaches the anus, the internal anal sphincter is relaxed by > inhibitory signals from the myenteric plexus; if the external anal > sphincter is also consciously, voluntarily relaxed at the same time, > defecation occurs. > > " However, the intrinsic myenteric defecation reflex functioning by > itself is relatively weak. To be effective in causing defecation, > it usually must be fortified by another type of defecation reflex, a > parasympathetic defecation reflex, that involves the sacral segments > of the spinal cord, as shown in Figure 63-6. When the nerve endings > in the rectum are stimulated, signals are transmitted first into the > spinal cord and then reflexly back to the descending colon, sigmoid, > rectum, and anus by way of parasympathetic nerve fibers in the > pelvic nerves. These parasympatheteic signals greatly intensifiy > the peristaltic waves as well as relax the internal anal sphincter > and thus convert the intrinsic myenteric defecation reflex from a > weak effort into a powerful process of defecation that is sometimes > effective in emptying the large bowel all at once all the way from > the splenic flexure of the colon to the anus. I think I have multiple problems. One of them seems to be at this point.I think I am not being able to detect that feces has moved in rectum.Not always but most of the time.No need to defecate.But I am not sure which one of these reflexes is mal functioning. > " Also, the afferent defecation signals entering the spinal cord > initiate other effects, such as taking a deep breath, closure of the > glottis, and contraction of the abdominal wall muscles to force the > fecal contents of the colon downward and at the same time cause the > pelvic floor to relax downward and pull outward on the anal ring to > evaginate the feces. > Second problem is here. I can not force the contents downward even if I wish to do so.Sometimes I feel rectum is full but I can not help it a bit. > " When it becomes convenient for the person to defecate, the > defecation reflexes can sometimes be elicited by taking a deep > breath to move the diaphragm downward and then contracting the > abdominal muscles to increase the pressure in the abdomen, thus > forcing fecal contents into the rectum to cause new reflexes. > Reflexes initiated in this way are almost never as effective as > those that arise naturally, for which reason people who too often > inhibit their natural reflexes are likely to becocme severely > constipated. > > " In neonates and in some people with transected spinal cords, the > defecation reflexes cause automatic emptying of the lower bowel at > inconvenient times during the day because of lack of conscious > control exercised thorugh voluntary contraction or relaxation of the > external anal sphincter. " > So,it seems that I have both neurological and also weak muscles problem. Don't know which started first, which is more important at this point. Rich, Again thank you very much for helping me in this subject.I have learned a lot from you on this subject. Best wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Jerky. If it is not all chemicals, it is a wonderful raw source of protein. What about tofu? Adrienne Protein I'm not able to cook. What are some other raw foods (besides nuts) that have a lot of protein? Also, would it be okay to eat protein bars or soy protein shakes? Thank you! Sue This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 Cheese mjh " The Basil Book " http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 On Jul 6, 2006, at 6:43 PM, sb2boys wrote: > I'm not able to cook. What are some other raw foods (besides nuts) > that have a lot of protein? Also, would it be okay to eat protein > bars or soy protein shakes? Thank you! If you haven't checked yourself out for food allergies, you might want to do this before ingesting large quantities of soy. Many of us have highly reactive immune systems, and find ourselves sensitized to certain foods. The most common ones are wheat, dairy, eggs, and soy. The best way to find out if these foods are an issue is to eliminate wheat from your diet for 2-4 weeks, and see if you start feeling better. Then do the same with milk products, then eggs, and then soy. It will take some time, but the odds are good you'll start feeling a bit better when you eliminate at least one of them. Take the hint. The disease can also have a dramatic effect on the thyroid. If you know or suspect you have thyroid issues, eating soy is contraindicated because the proteins are very hard on thyroid function. As a side note: a large number of us also categorically avoid aspartame (Nutrasweet), and MSG and other glutamate food additives. And it's pretty common to find PWCs who have either given up caffeine entirely, or only use it " medicinally " as a wake-up drug when it's absolutely needed to function. Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 There's a very good site about soy that might interest some of you. It's difficult to disregard all the hype, but this is a must read I think. soyserviceonline.co.nz Best...Edy Mercuria <mercuria@...> wrote: On Jul 6, 2006, at 6:43 PM, sb2boys wrote: > I'm not able to cook. What are some other raw foods (besides nuts) > that have a lot of protein? Also, would it be okay to eat protein > bars or soy protein shakes? Thank you! If you haven't checked yourself out for food allergies, you might want to do this before ingesting large quantities of soy. Many of us have highly reactive immune systems, and find ourselves sensitized to certain foods. The most common ones are wheat, dairy, eggs, and soy. The best way to find out if these foods are an issue is to eliminate wheat from your diet for 2-4 weeks, and see if you start feeling better. Then do the same with milk products, then eggs, and then soy. It will take some time, but the odds are good you'll start feeling a bit better when you eliminate at least one of them. Take the hint. The disease can also have a dramatic effect on the thyroid. If you know or suspect you have thyroid issues, eating soy is contraindicated because the proteins are very hard on thyroid function. As a side note: a large number of us also categorically avoid aspartame (Nutrasweet), and MSG and other glutamate food additives. And it's pretty common to find PWCs who have either given up caffeine entirely, or only use it " medicinally " as a wake-up drug when it's absolutely needed to function. Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 So sorry, got the address mixed. It's soyonlineservice.co.nz. Sorry, E Mercuria <mercuria@...> wrote: On Jul 6, 2006, at 6:43 PM, sb2boys wrote: > I'm not able to cook. What are some other raw foods (besides nuts) > that have a lot of protein? Also, would it be okay to eat protein > bars or soy protein shakes? Thank you! If you haven't checked yourself out for food allergies, you might want to do this before ingesting large quantities of soy. Many of us have highly reactive immune systems, and find ourselves sensitized to certain foods. The most common ones are wheat, dairy, eggs, and soy. The best way to find out if these foods are an issue is to eliminate wheat from your diet for 2-4 weeks, and see if you start feeling better. Then do the same with milk products, then eggs, and then soy. It will take some time, but the odds are good you'll start feeling a bit better when you eliminate at least one of them. Take the hint. The disease can also have a dramatic effect on the thyroid. If you know or suspect you have thyroid issues, eating soy is contraindicated because the proteins are very hard on thyroid function. As a side note: a large number of us also categorically avoid aspartame (Nutrasweet), and MSG and other glutamate food additives. And it's pretty common to find PWCs who have either given up caffeine entirely, or only use it " medicinally " as a wake-up drug when it's absolutely needed to function. Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 Adrienne, Thank you for the suggestions. I can't do Tofu though. I'll check out jerky. Sue > > Jerky. If it is not all chemicals, it is a wonderful raw source of protein. > What about tofu? > Adrienne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 Are you able to boil water? Eggs. in Champaign IL > > Cheese > > mjh > " The Basil Book " > http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 Best is to make you own, if feasible. It can be done mostly seated. Can use organic meat. Adrienne Re: Protein Adrienne, Thank you for the suggestions. I can't do Tofu though. I'll check out jerky. Sue > > Jerky. If it is not all chemicals, it is a wonderful raw source of protein. > What about tofu? > Adrienne This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 , It's even hard for me to do that. I know how. I just have a hard time because of CFS and Fibro. Sue > > > > Cheese > > > > mjh > > " The Basil Book " > > http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 Sue, If you could do it once, and do many at the same time, they keep for a long time and you'd have them without having to " do " anything more for maybe a long time. Or possibly a friend could boil them for you. I bet even a store deli would do this, but I guess it would cost money and then you'd have to worry about " transport " to get them. When I scramble eggs for me, I do a dozen at a time. I saute (coconut oil) chopped onion, slivered garlic, ground black pepper, and sliced green pepper and then throw in one dozen fork-beaten eggs, mix, and cook the whole thing at once. I can keep that in the refrigerator in a plastic container for a week and it provides a great protein source that's pretty cheap -- and the best part, it's readily available then. I also hard-boil eggs by the dozen, and then just keep them on hand. To hard-boil eggs and not have to fight with shells that stick on, use week-old eggs to start with. After boiling, the shells peel right off. I hope this helps, but I know what you're up against. > > > > Are you able to boil water? Eggs. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 Hi all I also had this protein problem. Starting from year 2000 I started being able to eat less and less protein. I had simply no appetite for it. Than in 2004 I started having eczema like skin eruptions on my feet and that was complete end of my animal protein intake. I had very hard time during 2004 and 2005.During that time only protein I was able to intake was vegetable protein. I was able to eat nuts(Not all but some) and legumes(Mostly lentils.). My muscles got very weak due to protein deficiency.It was horrible.Lately,after a long struggle I started being able to eat some animal protein in small amounts.I have missed the original question but if protein intake is a problem I may advise nuts and legumes. Best w. Nil Re: Protein > Sue, > > If you could do it once, and do many at the same time, they keep for a > long time and you'd have them without having to " do " anything more for > maybe a long time. Or possibly a friend could boil them for you. I > bet even a store deli would do this, but I guess it would cost money > and then you'd have to worry about " transport " to get them. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Ohh right Diane, I really did not mean that protein was in everything literally, Just validating Janet that when trying to change our diets it is in more things than we imagined, as in some dairy or eggs being added to prepared foods etc. Small amounts or incomplete proteins in a lot of things, but obviously not fruits. Just did not want her to be overwhelmed with the diet change. C J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 > > I'm not able to cook. ***Hi Sue - Do you have a microwave? You could buy frozen dinners. I know they don't taste the greatest, however, they are better than nothing when you don't have the energy to cook. Take care. Bernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 Personally I avoid soy. Try a chicken breast, egg or salmon. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 I avoid soy also,, for OH, so many reasons. I get my protein from quinoa (delicious as a protein boost in smoothies) or from raw dairy-cheese, yogurt, etc. Protein is WAYYYYYY over pushed-anyone who eats anything is likely getting enough protein. From: Tony Szpara <tszpara@...>Subject: Re: Protein Date: Saturday, December 25, 2010, 8:31 PM Personally I avoid soy. Try a chicken breast, egg or salmon. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 Thanks for your reply, Tony, but I'm vegetarian (Americas, India, and Europe def: no meat, fish, fowl, or sealife) since 1982. I'm not sure about raw eggs also. Or do you mean put cooked ones in the smoothie? Sherry in Oregon At 05:31 PM 12/25/2010, you wrote: Personally I avoid soy. Try a chicken breast, egg or salmon. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 Thanks, . I'd never thought to put quinoa in a smoothie, though I love it. I assume you scrub and cook it before adding it? And I'd love to know your resources for RDA of protein -- everything I've read says that we need around 50-60 gms or so each day (.36 gm per pound of weight RDA). Sherry in Oregon At 05:58 PM 12/25/2010, you wrote: > > >I avoid soy also,, for OH, so many reasons. I get my protein from >quinoa (delicious as a protein boost in smoothies) or from raw >dairy-cheese, yogurt, etc. Protein is WAYYYYYY over pushed-anyone >who eats anything is likely getting enough protein. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 I keep cooked frozen quinoa cubes on hand always. Great to toss in smoothies! I prefer red quinoa to the pale yellow. I am against ANY government regulated "allowances" for nutrition-there are far too many variables to start with (age, weight, activity, body mass, etc), plus the RDA was set by a bunch of old fart men to accommodate nutritional needs for soldiers during the war-hardly a good basis for most of us now. As I said, protein is WAY over hyped. My teen daughter has been vegetarian most of her life, and the biggest "worry" I hear from friends and family is about her "protein and iron" needs-both of which are perfect based on her annual nutrition profile I have done by her pediatrician. He says he wishes ALL of his patients had her blood levels. If anything, most people get too much protein. Our bodies are made up of protein, and by constantly blasting ourselves with too much of it, our livers don't have a chance to break down the stores of it that are already there-leading to an overworked liver, and often excess weight. If vegetarian, certainly you need to be more conscientious of protein SOURCES, but not such much the amount of protein taken in daily. Anyone who eats meat is no doubt getting more than adequate amounts of protein without supplementing for it, and vegetarians concerned with nutrition already know how to get it without having meat in the diet. All I know, is that I was sick and crippled when I ate a standard diet, and REDUCING my protein had a major positive impact on my health. > > >I avoid soy also,, for OH, so many reasons. I get my protein from >quinoa (delicious as a protein boost in smoothies) or from raw >dairy-cheese, yogurt, etc. Protein is WAYYYYYY over pushed-anyone >who eats anything is likely getting enough protein. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 Yes raw. or www.mercola.com When I first saw a Vitamix demo in the 80's the demonstrator put a whole raw egg in the smoothie. Shell and all. With enough sweet fruit you won't even know it's there. As for veggies I get them from steak. I figure cows eat veggies so I can get them that way. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 You can bet if the steak you are eating comes from commercially farmed cows that those cows aren't eating any veggies. They are fed a high grain diet, not the grass they are meant to eat, which is why they are in turn heavily medicated, since their nutritional needs aren't being met either. > > Yes raw. > > > or > www.mercola.com > > When I first saw a Vitamix demo in the 80's the demonstrator put a whole > raw egg in the smoothie. > Shell and all. > > With enough sweet fruit you won't even know it's there. > > As for veggies I get them from steak. I figure cows eat veggies so I > can get them that way. > > Tony > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 Yeah if $$$ allowed I'd eat grass fed meats. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 Isn't tofu a protein? Sent from my iPad On Dec 25, 2010, at 9:43 PM, Tony Szpara <tszpara@...> wrote: > Yes raw. > > > or > www.mercola.com > > When I first saw a Vitamix demo in the 80's the demonstrator put a whole > raw egg in the smoothie. > Shell and all. > > With enough sweet fruit you won't even know it's there. > > As for veggies I get them from steak. I figure cows eat veggies so I > can get them that way. > > Tony > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2010 Report Share Posted December 26, 2010 chia seeds, hemp hearts, spirulina and raw egg for me On 12/25/2010 07:58:22 PM, Berry (berrywell@...) wrote: > I avoid soy also,, for OH, so many reasons. I get my protein from quinoa > (delicious as a protein boost in smoothies) or from raw dairy-cheese, > yogurt, etc. Protein is WAYYYYYY over pushed-anyone who eats anything is > likely getting enough protein. > > > > > > From: Tony Szpara <tszpara@...> > Subject: Re: Protein > > Date: Saturday, December 25, 2010, 8:31 PM > > > Personally I avoid soy. > > Try a chicken breast, egg or salmon. > > > > Tony > > > > > > > > Reply to sender [link: mailto:berrywell@...?subject=Re: > Re: Protein] | Reply to group [link: > mailto: ?subject=Re: > Re: Protein] | Reply via web post [link: groups.. > com/group//post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxM3Q2dmE1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkA\ zI5Nzk2ODczBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDk3NARtc2dJZAM0MDA3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3Rpb\ WUDMTI5MzMyODcwMw- > -?act=reply § c[_] Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2010 Report Share Posted December 26, 2010 Where do you find hemp hearts and spirulia and how is it packaged? I now use chia seeds. > > > > From: Tony Szpara <tszpara@...> > > Subject: Re: Protein > > > > Date: Saturday, December 25, 2010, 8:31 PM > > > > > > Personally I avoid soy. > > > > Try a chicken breast, egg or salmon. > > > > > > > > Tony > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reply to sender [link: mailto:berrywell@...?subject=Re: > > Re: Protein] | Reply to group [link: > > mailto: ?subject=Re: > > Re: Protein] | Reply via web post [link: groups.. > > > com/group//post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxM3Q2dmE1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkA\ zI5Nzk2ODczBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDk3NARtc2dJZAM0MDA3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3Rpb\ WUDMTI5MzMyODcwMw- > > -?act=reply > > > § > c[_] Cat > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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