Guest guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 could be mercury in the fish too. Marcia Re: protein I was feeling fine and I ate only a can of sardines thinking the protein would make me feel good but I am now shaking, ears ringing and headache starting. The sardines were in mustard sauce and I cannot find the lid to see what was in that. I also wonder if possibly something in the sardines, such as ciguatera epitope, would cause the reaction? Bob This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 I thought about that but aren't sardines most likely to not have much mercury since they are small and not eaten by larger fish? Bob > could be mercury in the fish too. > > Marcia > Re: protein > > > I was feeling fine and I ate only a can of sardines thinking the > protein would make me feel good but I am now shaking, ears ringing and > headache starting. The sardines were in mustard sauce and I cannot find > the lid to see what was in that. > > I also wonder if possibly something in the sardines, such as ciguatera > epitope, would cause the reaction? > > Bob > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 I don't think sardines are much of a mercury risk. I'd be thinking about the mustard sauce, maybe there was some MSG in there. Helen > > could be mercury in the fish too. > > > > Marcia > > Re: protein > > > > > > I was feeling fine and I ate only a can of sardines thinking the > > protein would make me feel good but I am now shaking, ears > ringing and > > headache starting. The sardines were in mustard sauce and I > cannot find > > the lid to see what was in that. > > > > I also wonder if possibly something in the sardines, such as > ciguatera > > epitope, would cause the reaction? > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences > with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested > in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Bob...From what I've read, once you are overexposed to ciguatera, even the tiniest amount of ciguatoxin will cause you to have a flareup of symptoms. Might also be mercury. Or sardine allergy or mustard allergy. Proteolytic digestive enzymes will reduce an allergic reaction. Allergies increase acid. Also Alka Seltzer Gold (contains a combination of salt and potassium) will give you relief. If you don't have Alka Seltzer Gold, a fourth of a teaspoon of salt, a fourth of a teaspoon of potassium, a cup of water and a cup of seltzer water combined ( Cheney's formula) does the same. Vickie On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 20:45:10 -0000 " Bob " <blue74730@...> writes: > I was feeling fine and I ate only a can of sardines thinking the > protein would make me feel good but I am now shaking, ears ringing > and > headache starting. The sardines were in mustard sauce and I cannot > find > the lid to see what was in that. > > I also wonder if possibly something in the sardines, such as > ciguatera > epitope, would cause the reaction? > > Bob > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 I wonder if digestive enzymes would help. My doc prescribed it for me but you can buy it OTC. I think it helps me. Also supposed to breakdown the endotoxins. Please don't ask me to explain this as I only know what doc tells me. Gail _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of yildiz Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 1:03 PM Subject: Re: protein Yes,I am having vegetable proteins. mainly beans,lentils.. I have problems in digesting nuts.I eat them then I see them in my stool as pieces just in the same form as they leave my mouth.(Sorry for the description.).So,I am not sure how much of them is digested. That is really unbelievable.My stool is full of different distinct colors and forms.Nuts,tomato skins,parts of watermelons,corn,skins of beans,even sometimes green vegetable leaves.(Again sorry! But this is the only place I feel not so uncomfortable in describing such things. I am sure you will understand.)I am still trying to solve the puzzle. I am not sure what the problem is. Is this only stomach acid and /or bile problem or something else? I sometimes think if my stomach muscles don't work well to break food into smaller pieces.Thanks for asking this question to me. I had a chance of concentrating on this problem. Also,may be someone in the group can shed a light on this. Thanks. Nil Re: protein What about vegetable proteins, can you eat them? Peanuts, soy, etc? Doris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Bob...something else that has helped me when I reacted to fish is peeling a lemon and eating the whole thing, sprinkling it liberally with salt as I eat it. Sounds awful, but it has worked for me. A little bit like the Salt plus Vitamin C Protocol, I guess. Vickie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Hi, Nil. Thanks for getting specific! This certainly doesn't sound very good, and I doubt if you are getting much nutritional value from your food under these circumstances. I would say that there is more than one malfunction in your gastrointestinal system, based on what you reported. First, in normal, healthy people, the stomach breaks down the food particles to sizes less than about 2 millimeters before it allows them to pass through the pyloric sphincter and into the duodenum. If it is unable to break something down that small, it normally retains it for about two hours, and then dumps it into the duodenum. From what you reported, it sounds as though you have a lot of pieces of material passing through your GI tract that are quite a bit larger than this. I think this means that the stomach is not breaking the food down as small as it should, just as you suspect. I'm not sure why it isn't. Perhaps the stomach muscles are not able to contract enough to do this, or perhaps there is some problem in the control mechanism for these muscles. Even if your stomach is not breaking down the food particles properly, I would expect that if your digestion were operating properly, that would still break things down more than what you are observing. Therefore, I suspect that your digestion is also not working properly. This suggests that the pancreas is not secreting enough digestive enzymes. This might be due to a problem with the pancreas itself or with the ducts that carry the digestive juice from the pancreas to the duodenum. It might also be due to a failure of the secretin signal to be sent to the pancreas by the cells in the duodenum responsible for this. Such a failure in turn may be due to a lack of stomach acid reaching the duodenum, perhaps because of a shortage of secretion of stomach acid by the parietal cells. I suggest that you run some experiments, if you haven't already done them. First, run the baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) test to see if your stomach is producing enough acid. To do this, on an empty stomach, drink a glass of water into which you have dissolved one- quarter teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). Keep track of the time it takes before you burp. You should burp in less than two minutes if you are making enough stomach acid. The second experiment is this: With your next meal, drink a lot of lemon juice. This is about the most acidic thing you can drink. When this food reaches your duodenum, it should have plenty of acid to trigger the secretion of secretin. If the pancreas and ducts are in good shape, you should get plenty of digestive juice secreted from the pancreas into the duodenum, and that should give you better digestion. If you know what your usual transit time is through your GI tract (you can measure this by eating something like corn and measuring how long before the kernals arrive in your stools), then you can observe your stools at the right time to see if the food you ate with the lemon juice is broken down better or not. That will tell you if your pancreas is working O.K. or not. The third experiment is to take a lot of digestive enzymes with a meal and then monitor the stools after the appropriate transit time to see if the food is better broken down. Use a good combination of digestive enzymes (amylase, lipase and protease), including both plant-based (papain, rutin and bromelain) and animal-based (pancreatic) protease enzymes. This should give you better digestion even if both the stomach and the pancreas are not functioning properly. If this still doesn't do it, then I would suspect that in addition to the problems with the stomach and the pancreas, you also have hypermotility of the gut (food moves through too fast to be digested). I think that if you run these experiments you will be able to learn something about what is going on with your gastrointestinal system. Rich > Yes,I am having vegetable proteins. mainly beans,lentils.. I have problems > in digesting nuts.I eat them then I see them in my stool as pieces just in > the same form as they leave my mouth.(Sorry for the description.).So,I am > not sure how much of them is digested. That is really unbelievable.My stool > is full of different distinct colors and forms.Nuts,tomato skins,parts of > watermelons,corn,skins of beans,even sometimes green vegetable leaves.(Again > sorry! But this is the only place I feel not so uncomfortable in describing > such things. I am sure you will understand.)I am still trying to solve the > puzzle. I am not sure what the problem is. Is this only stomach acid and > /or bile problem or something else? I sometimes think if my stomach muscles > don't work well to break food into smaller pieces.Thanks for asking this > question to me. I had a chance of concentrating on this problem. Also,may be > someone in the group can shed a light on this. > > Thanks. > Nil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Hi id be interested if anyone has suggestions for the digestion issues that Nil has? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 I had a similar exp after eating a meal consisting of mush rooms. Next day I woke up feeling extremely toxic. Extreme headaches,feeling toxic,etc. I cooked it so no foreign substances. I wonder if this could be due to candida problem. Fed my candida? Best wishes Nil Re: protein > > > I was feeling fine and I ate only a can of sardines thinking the > protein would make me feel good but I am now shaking, ears ringing and > headache starting. The sardines were in mustard sauce and I cannot find > the lid to see what was in that. > > I also wonder if possibly something in the sardines, such as ciguatera > epitope, would cause the reaction? > > Bob > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Thanks Rich, That really was a great answer. Hope I can manage to do these in short time. Just one more note. I also have great difficulty with my bowels. I never empty my bowels in a normal way. When I wake up I am having 4 or 5 dried apricots than have big glass of water. Shortly afterwards I am having 1 teaspoonful (not heaped)of psyllium seed again with big glass of water. I than walk around the house for some time to help and that helps most of the time.If I can not do these for some reason I can not empty my bowels.Normal process did not happen within the last 6 or 7 months. before that time it was even worse. These also wouldn't help and I had to take enema everyother day.(one day no bowel movement,second day enema). Please don't tell me to take colonoscopy or any other hospital test:)) Just no energy for that. best wishes.Nil Re: protein > Hi, Nil. > > Thanks for getting specific! This certainly doesn't sound very > good, and I doubt if you are getting much nutritional value from > your food under these circumstances. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Rich, Some further info. I am also urinating very little.Don't know where all that water that I am drinking goes away.Wonder if I also have problems with my kidneys.Last week I had some standard tests done.Standard urine and blood tests. Results seem to be within the limits although some of them may be closer to top or bottom limit. I can not evaluate those as I am not an expert. There were only two tests which were out of limits. Those were -in serum test-chloride(high),direct,indirect and total bilirubins(low),total protein(low),LDL(marked by the lab but within the limits, was 114 mg/dl(limits being 80-160). My sodium is close to high limit and potassium close to low limit both both are within the limits.Other than that there were no abnormalities in other blood or urine tests. I wonder if standard tests would be sufficient to check for kidney functioning. Do you know any of the standard blood or urine tests which would definitely indicate poor kidney function? Can I be sure that my kidneys are functioning well if standard tests look okay? Thanks. nil Re: protein > Hi, Nil. > > Thanks for getting specific! This certainly doesn't sound very > good, and I doubt if you are getting much nutritional value from > your food under these circumstances. > > I would say that there is more than one malfunction in your > gastrointestinal system, based on what you reported. > > First, in normal, healthy people, the stomach breaks down the food > particles to sizes less than about 2 millimeters before it allows > them to pass through the pyloric sphincter and into the duodenum. > If it is unable to break something down that small, it normally > retains it for about two hours, and then dumps it into the > duodenum. From what you reported, it sounds as though you have a > lot of pieces of material passing through your GI tract that are > quite a bit larger than this. I think this means that the stomach > is not breaking the food down as small as it should, just as you > suspect. I'm not sure why it isn't. Perhaps the stomach muscles > are not able to contract enough to do this, or perhaps there is some > problem in the control mechanism for these muscles. > > Even if your stomach is not breaking down the food particles > properly, I would expect that if your digestion were operating > properly, that would still break things down more than what you are > observing. Therefore, I suspect that your digestion is also not > working properly. This suggests that the pancreas is not secreting > enough digestive enzymes. This might be due to a problem with the > pancreas itself or with the ducts that carry the digestive juice > from the pancreas to the duodenum. It might also be due to a > failure of the secretin signal to be sent to the pancreas by the > cells in the duodenum responsible for this. Such a failure in turn > may be due to a lack of stomach acid reaching the duodenum, perhaps > because of a shortage of secretion of stomach acid by the parietal > cells. > > I suggest that you run some experiments, if you haven't already done > them. First, run the baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) test to see > if your stomach is producing enough acid. To do this, on an empty > stomach, drink a glass of water into which you have dissolved one- > quarter teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). Keep track of > the time it takes before you burp. You should burp in less than two > minutes if you are making enough stomach acid. > > The second experiment is this: With your next meal, drink a lot of > lemon juice. This is about the most acidic thing you can drink. > When this food reaches your duodenum, it should have plenty of acid > to trigger the secretion of secretin. If the pancreas and ducts are > in good shape, you should get plenty of digestive juice secreted > from the pancreas into the duodenum, and that should give you better > digestion. If you know what your usual transit time is through your > GI tract (you can measure this by eating something like corn and > measuring how long before the kernals arrive in your stools), then > you can observe your stools at the right time to see if the food you > ate with the lemon juice is broken down better or not. That will > tell you if your pancreas is working O.K. or not. > > The third experiment is to take a lot of digestive enzymes with a > meal and then monitor the stools after the appropriate transit time > to see if the food is better broken down. Use a good combination of > digestive enzymes (amylase, lipase and protease), including both > plant-based (papain, rutin and bromelain) and animal-based > (pancreatic) protease enzymes. This should give you better > digestion even if both the stomach and the pancreas are not > functioning properly. If this still doesn't do it, then I would > suspect that in addition to the problems with the stomach and the > pancreas, you also have hypermotility of the gut (food moves through > too fast to be digested). > > I think that if you run these experiments you will be able to learn > something about what is going on with your gastrointestinal system. > > Rich > > > > >> Yes,I am having vegetable proteins. mainly beans,lentils.. I have > problems >> in digesting nuts.I eat them then I see them in my stool as pieces > just in >> the same form as they leave my mouth.(Sorry for the > description.).So,I am >> not sure how much of them is digested. That is really > unbelievable.My stool >> is full of different distinct colors and forms.Nuts,tomato > skins,parts of >> watermelons,corn,skins of beans,even sometimes green vegetable > leaves.(Again >> sorry! But this is the only place I feel not so uncomfortable in > describing >> such things. I am sure you will understand.)I am still trying to > solve the >> puzzle. I am not sure what the problem is. Is this only stomach > acid and >> /or bile problem or something else? I sometimes think if my > stomach muscles >> don't work well to break food into smaller pieces.Thanks for > asking this >> question to me. I had a chance of concentrating on this problem. > Also,may be >> someone in the group can shed a light on this. >> >> Thanks. >> Nil > > > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each > other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment > discussed here, please consult your doctor. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 In a message dated 20/08/2005 10:49:50 GMT Standard Time, yildiz22@... writes: Some further info. I am also urinating very little.Don't know where all that water that I am drinking goes away.Wonder if I also have problems with my kidneys.Last week I had some standard tests done.Standard urine and blood tests. Results seem to be within the limits although some of them may be closer to top or bottom limit. I can not evaluate those as I am not an expert. There were only two tests which were out of limits. Those were -in serum test-chloride(high),direct,indirect and total bilirubins(low),total protein(low),LDL(marked by the lab but within the limits, was 114 mg/dl(limits being 80-160). My sodium is close to high limit and potassium close to low limit both both are within the limits.Other than that there were no abnormalities in other blood or urine tests. I wonder if standard tests would be sufficient to check for kidney functioning. Do try increasing your potassium via fruit and veg... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 testing > Hi id be interested if anyone has suggestions for the digestion issues that > Nil has? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Hi,Nil. The standard blood chemistry panel includes several measurements that give information about kidney function. These include the measurements of creatinine, BUN (blood urea nitrogen), uric acid, and the various electrolytes (sodium, potassium, chloride, bicarbonate)in particular. Just about everything measured in a standard urine analysis gives information about kidney function, because urine originates in the kidneys. If these measurements are generally in the normal ranges, your kidneys are functioning reasonably well. There are only a few possibilities for where the water is going. One possibility is that it is building up in your body, and that you are retaining fluid. This does not seem likely, in view of your high sodium and chloride concentrations, which suggest that you are dehydrated. Also, you haven't mentioned edema (swelling), distention or weight gain. Another possibility is normal urination, but you report that your daily urine volume is low. Another possibility is loss in diarrhea, but you report constipation. Another possibility is vomiting, but you haven't mentioned this. Another possibility is hemorrhaging, but you haven't mentioned that! Another possibility is excessive sweating. Do you sweat a lot? A final possibility is evaporative loss through the skin (I don't mean through the sweat glands here, but through the skin in general). This can occur if there is a deficiency in the normal water barrier that is normally in the corneum layer of the skin. This can be produced by a deficiency in omega-6 fatty acids, since the water barrier is made from omega-6. I hope this helps. Rich > >> Yes,I am having vegetable proteins. mainly beans,lentils.. I have > > problems > >> in digesting nuts.I eat them then I see them in my stool as pieces > > just in > >> the same form as they leave my mouth.(Sorry for the > > description.).So,I am > >> not sure how much of them is digested. That is really > > unbelievable.My stool > >> is full of different distinct colors and forms.Nuts,tomato > > skins,parts of > >> watermelons,corn,skins of beans,even sometimes green vegetable > > leaves.(Again > >> sorry! But this is the only place I feel not so uncomfortable in > > describing > >> such things. I am sure you will understand.)I am still trying to > > solve the > >> puzzle. I am not sure what the problem is. Is this only stomach > > acid and > >> /or bile problem or something else? I sometimes think if my > > stomach muscles > >> don't work well to break food into smaller pieces.Thanks for > > asking this > >> question to me. I had a chance of concentrating on this problem. > > Also,may be > >> someone in the group can shed a light on this. > >> > >> Thanks. > >> Nil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each > > other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment > > discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Hi, Nil. That doesn't sound like a lot of fun. You are doing the right things to encourage bowel movements for a normal bowel: fiber, water, and exercise. Since these don't work so well, I suspect that your bowel does not have normal motility (normal peristaltic movement.) Do you have pain in your abdomen? If so, is it relieved when you are able to have a bowel movement? If so, you may have irritable bowel syndrome. Bowel function is normally under the control of the autonomic nervous system, and serotonin is involved in peristalsis. Do you have problems with your nervous system? Do you know whether you might be low in tryptophan, which is the precursor for making serotonin? Have you had your thyroid hormones measured? Low thyroid can cause constipation. Have you had a physical examination in which the doctor listened for bowel sounds in your abdomen, using a stethoscope? If your bowel doesn't have proper motility, an experienced doctor could probably tell by listening for a while. I know you don't want me to suggest a colonoscopy, a CT scan or a barium enema x-ray exam, but I think I should mention that constipation can be caused by something structural that can be seen in these types of exams. This would include things like colorectal cancer, Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis or intestinal obstruction. Normally a colonoscopy would be the first thing to do, to rule out these sorts of things. I can tell you from personal experience that if I had gotten a colonoscopy sooner than at a five- year interval after my earlier sigmoidoscopy, I would probably still have the ten inches of colon and rectum that had to be removed, because I had a big tumor there! So I can't leave this out, Nil. Sorry. Rich > Thanks Rich, > > That really was a great answer. Hope I can manage to do these in short > time. > > Just one more note. I also have great difficulty with my bowels. I never > empty my bowels in a normal way. When I wake up I am having 4 or 5 dried > apricots than have big glass of water. Shortly afterwards I am having 1 > teaspoonful (not heaped)of psyllium seed again with big glass of water. I > than walk around the house for some time to help and that helps most of the > time.If I can not do these for some reason I can not empty my bowels.Normal > process did not happen within the last 6 or 7 months. before that time it > was even worse. These also wouldn't help and I had to take enema everyother > day.(one day no bowel movement,second day enema). Please don't tell me to > take colonoscopy or any other hospital test:)) Just no energy for that. > > best wishes.Nil > Re: protein > > > > Hi, Nil. > > > > Thanks for getting specific! This certainly doesn't sound very > > good, and I doubt if you are getting much nutritional value from > > your food under these circumstances. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Oh.. Very surprised? Omega- 6? yes. I am definately deficient in that.. I have not heard of that. Thanks very much for this info. Well,I do sweat. I think at normal amounts or little bit more than normal. I have been living with strange symptoms all over for so long that I have forgotten what normal levels are.Couple of days ago I mentioned to one of my friends that I was changing my inner cloths in average three times a day at hot summer days and she was surprised.So,It could be that I am sweating more than normal. Thanks Rich for this valuable info. `A final possibility is evaporative loss through the skin (I don't mean through the sweat glands here, but through the skin in general). This can occur if there is a deficiency in the normal water barrier that is normally in the corneum layer of the skin. This can be produced by a deficiency in omega-6 fatty acids, since the water barrier is made from omega-6. I hope this helps. Rich` Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Yes, it helps me when I stay on it. One of the reasons it may help it that it eliminates sugar completely. Dr. Pimenthal (sp?) did a study at Cedars in Los Angeles (I was part of the study) and found out that people with Fibromyalgia (and probably CFIDS patients as well), have an abnormal amount of bacteria in the lower gut. We shouldn't have any. A diet that eliminates sugar will result in much less bacteria in the lower gut. They tried treating patients for the lower gut bacteria with antibiotics and most got better. The problem is once the antibiotic treatment was stopped, the bacteria, hence pain, brain- fog et. al. came back. Rice > the psychic on the Montel show insists that a high protein > diet will help FMS. Anybody tried this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 > I had a similar exp after eating a meal consisting of mush rooms. Next day I > woke up feeling extremely toxic. Extreme headaches,feeling toxic,etc. I > cooked it so no foreign substances. I wonder if this could be due to candida > problem. Fed my candida? > Best wishes > Nil Nil, I won't touch mushrooms. Not only are the fungi which could feed your candida but I am allergic to mold and fungus. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Hi Rich, > > That doesn't sound like a lot of fun. You are doing the right > things to encourage bowel movements for a normal bowel: fiber, > water, and exercise. Since these don't work so well, I suspect that > your bowel does not have normal motility (normal peristaltic > movement.) > Actually it is getting better.It was worse some time ago. It started getting better after I started using B6,zinc,molybdenum,l-methionine for copper toxicity and some d3.I don't know in which ways,which of these supplements helped my bowels. > Do you have pain in your abdomen? If so, is it relieved when you > are able to have a bowel movement? If so, you may have irritable > bowel syndrome. > No pain.. > Bowel function is normally under the control of the autonomic > nervous system, and serotonin is involved in peristalsis. Do you > have problems with your nervous system? yes,I do.. my brain does not function well.I think I have a severe problem at right side of my brain. At this point I will try to mention you about couple of other strange things I noticed. I do try to practice some relaxation exercises from time to time. if I am able to relax myself,I start hearing voices and feeling movements at my bowels.so that shows that problem or some of the problem is related to brain.may be after relaxation serotonin is starting to be produced or my bowel muscles relax. because of this reason I think the problem might be neurological,most probably due to damage done at my brain due to toxic metal poisoning.Most possibly mercury.Could also be due to copper toxicity.But I don't exactly know what the problem is. It could be that I am locked in sympathetic mode. Relaxation or meditation initiates Para sympathetic activity and my bowels start to have some activity.Do you have any idea on that part?What kind of effect does Para sympathetic system has on my bowel muscles? Would it cause contraction or relaxation? Also,I do have a problem on whole left side of my body.All muscles on left side of my body are tight and contracted 24 hours a day. (Again possibly due to mercury damage on right side of my brain). It is only when I do some relaxation/meditation type exercises that my muscles on left side start getting relaxed. Could that tightness of muscles on left side have effected my constipation problem.This might be a stupid question but If I am having tight muscles at whole my left side would also the muscles on the left side of my bowels be contracted. Also,I am not being able to give any push to my bowels by contracting my muscles. Even if I wish to do so,I can not. It is as if my muscles do not listen to my brain.,can not contract and generate the pushing effect. (Hope you understood what I meant). I must say that my muscles are weak all over my body possibly due to long term protein deficiency.they look like muscles of 80 years old person. This part has been quite long but I really have some problems on neurological side. So many questions in my mind. Hope I have been able to explain them clearly. Do you know whether you > might be low in tryptophan, which is the precursor for making > serotonin? Yes,that might be possible...it could also be that my serotonin production was impaired. that could be why b6,zinc helped. > > Have you had your thyroid hormones measured? Low thyroid can cause > constipation. > Within the limits according to current medical understanding. > Have you had a physical examination in which the doctor listened for > bowel sounds in your abdomen, using a stethoscope? If your bowel > doesn't have proper motility, an experienced doctor could probably > tell by listening for a while. > Nop..have't done that. > I know you don't want me to suggest a colonoscopy, a CT scan or a > barium enema x-ray exam, but I think I should mention that > constipation can be caused by something structural that can be seen > in these types of exams. This would include things like colorectal > cancer, Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis or intestinal > You are right. It is me who has the problem. Exhaustion.I have so many things to say in my mind about this part of you note but I got quite confused at this point and lost the track. Won't be able to write anything on that part.I have taken opinion of a doctor by giving my blood test results and he said according to the test results he does not think I have crohn. And I hope I don't have a cancer. Even if I do i might not be able to get the necessary treatment due to my low energy.Thanks for caring. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Bob, Yes, I am also terribly allergic to mold. So,I should not eat mushrooms? Could not think of that:) best wishes nil Re: protein > >> I had a similar exp after eating a meal consisting of mush rooms. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 What are Nil's digestive issues? Mel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Rich, I crashed due to the lab tests I had taken last week. Just a short question. You said ` The second experiment is this: With your next meal, drink a lot of > lemon juice. This is about the most acidic thing you can drink. > When this food reaches your duodenum, it should have plenty of acid > to trigger the secretion of secretin. ` How many lemons should I use for preparing lemon juice? Would half a lemon be enough or should I use more. Can I use betaine hcl capsules instead?Would it do the same job?If yes,how many capsules should I use?I take two capsules before each meal at this point.(This is most probably less than what I need as it does not produce burning feeling.) Thanks Nil Re: protein > Hi, Nil. > > Thanks for getting specific! This certainly doesn't sound very > good, and I doubt if you are getting much nutritional value from > your food under these circumstances. > > I would say that there is more than one malfunction in your > gastrointestinal system, based on what you reported. > > First, in normal, healthy people, the stomach breaks down the food > particles to sizes less than about 2 millimeters before it allows > them to pass through the pyloric sphincter and into the duodenum. > If it is unable to break something down that small, it normally > retains it for about two hours, and then dumps it into the > duodenum. From what you reported, it sounds as though you have a > lot of pieces of material passing through your GI tract that are > quite a bit larger than this. I think this means that the stomach > is not breaking the food down as small as it should, just as you > suspect. I'm not sure why it isn't. Perhaps the stomach muscles > are not able to contract enough to do this, or perhaps there is some > problem in the control mechanism for these muscles. > > Even if your stomach is not breaking down the food particles > properly, I would expect that if your digestion were operating > properly, that would still break things down more than what you are > observing. Therefore, I suspect that your digestion is also not > working properly. This suggests that the pancreas is not secreting > enough digestive enzymes. This might be due to a problem with the > pancreas itself or with the ducts that carry the digestive juice > from the pancreas to the duodenum. It might also be due to a > failure of the secretin signal to be sent to the pancreas by the > cells in the duodenum responsible for this. Such a failure in turn > may be due to a lack of stomach acid reaching the duodenum, perhaps > because of a shortage of secretion of stomach acid by the parietal > cells. > > I suggest that you run some experiments, if you haven't already done > them. First, run the baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) test to see > if your stomach is producing enough acid. To do this, on an empty > stomach, drink a glass of water into which you have dissolved one- > quarter teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). Keep track of > the time it takes before you burp. You should burp in less than two > minutes if you are making enough stomach acid. > > The second experiment is this: With your next meal, drink a lot of > lemon juice. This is about the most acidic thing you can drink. > When this food reaches your duodenum, it should have plenty of acid > to trigger the secretion of secretin. If the pancreas and ducts are > in good shape, you should get plenty of digestive juice secreted > from the pancreas into the duodenum, and that should give you better > digestion. If you know what your usual transit time is through your > GI tract (you can measure this by eating something like corn and > measuring how long before the kernals arrive in your stools), then > you can observe your stools at the right time to see if the food you > ate with the lemon juice is broken down better or not. That will > tell you if your pancreas is working O.K. or not. > > The third experiment is to take a lot of digestive enzymes with a > meal and then monitor the stools after the appropriate transit time > to see if the food is better broken down. Use a good combination of > digestive enzymes (amylase, lipase and protease), including both > plant-based (papain, rutin and bromelain) and animal-based > (pancreatic) protease enzymes. This should give you better > digestion even if both the stomach and the pancreas are not > functioning properly. If this still doesn't do it, then I would > suspect that in addition to the problems with the stomach and the > pancreas, you also have hypermotility of the gut (food moves through > too fast to be digested). > > I think that if you run these experiments you will be able to learn > something about what is going on with your gastrointestinal system. > > Rich > > > > >> Yes,I am having vegetable proteins. mainly beans,lentils.. I have > problems >> in digesting nuts.I eat them then I see them in my stool as pieces > just in >> the same form as they leave my mouth.(Sorry for the > description.).So,I am >> not sure how much of them is digested. That is really > unbelievable.My stool >> is full of different distinct colors and forms.Nuts,tomato > skins,parts of >> watermelons,corn,skins of beans,even sometimes green vegetable > leaves.(Again >> sorry! But this is the only place I feel not so uncomfortable in > describing >> such things. I am sure you will understand.)I am still trying to > solve the >> puzzle. I am not sure what the problem is. Is this only stomach > acid and >> /or bile problem or something else? I sometimes think if my > stomach muscles >> don't work well to break food into smaller pieces.Thanks for > asking this >> question to me. I had a chance of concentrating on this problem. > Also,may be >> someone in the group can shed a light on this. >> >> Thanks. >> Nil > > > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each > other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment > discussed here, please consult your doctor. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Hi, Nil. Sorry about the crash. I'm aware that your body is in fragile condition, and can't tolerate a lot of office or hospital testing. I'm hopeful that these " home tests " will shed some light on what's going on without wiping you out too much in the process. I'm not sure how much lemon to suggest. I think it depends on how much food and what kind of food you eat with it. The idea is to have enough acid that the food won't be able to fully neutralize it, so that there will still be some present when the food mixture moves on to the duodenum. I guess I would suggest a whole lemon, but I'm really just guessing about this. Yes, it would be fine to use betaine-HCl instead of lemon juice. Again, it's hard to say how many capsules to use. Perhaps you could try doubling what you normally use. I think it needs to be enough to give you a warm sensation in your stomach. You might have to experiment a little with the dose, to see when (or if) you get an effect in terms of better digestion of your food. Rich > Rich, > > I crashed due to the lab tests I had taken last week. Just a short question. > You said > ` The second experiment is this: With your next meal, drink a lot of > > lemon juice. This is about the most acidic thing you can drink. > > When this food reaches your duodenum, it should have plenty of acid > > to trigger the secretion of secretin. ` > > How many lemons should I use for preparing lemon juice? Would half a lemon > be enough or should I use more. > > Can I use betaine hcl capsules instead?Would it do the same job?If yes,how > many capsules should I use?I take two capsules before each meal at this > point.(This is most probably less than what I need as it does not produce > burning feeling.) > > Thanks > Nil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Hi, Nil. > Actually it is getting better.It was worse some time ago. It started getting > better after I started using B6,zinc,molybdenum,l-methionine for copper > toxicity and some d3.I don't know in which ways,which of these supplements > helped my > bowels. ***I'm glad to hear that this is getting better. Relaxation or meditation initiates Para sympathetic > activity and my bowels start to have some activity.Do you have any idea on > that part?What kind of effect does Para sympathetic system has on my bowel > muscles? Would it cause contraction or relaxation? ***The parasympathetic nervous system dilates blood vessels in the intestines and rectum, thus favoring peristalsis and more rapid processing of food. > > Also,I do have a problem on whole left side of my body.All muscles on left > side of my body are tight and contracted 24 hours a day. (Again possibly due > to mercury damage on right side of my brain). It is only when I do some > relaxation/meditation type exercises that my muscles on left side start > getting relaxed. Could that tightness of muscles on left side have effected > my constipation problem.This might be a stupid question but If I am having > tight muscles at whole my left side would also the muscles on the left side > of my bowels be contracted. ***I don't think so. The autonomic nervous system is controlled from the brain stem, not the higher part of the brain where there is a left and a right brain. > > Also,I am not being able to give any push to my bowels by contracting my > muscles. Even if I wish to do so,I cannot. It is as if my muscles do not > listen to my brain.,cannot contract and generate the pushing effect. (Hope > you understood what I meant). I must say that my muscles are weak all over > my body possibly due to long term protein deficiency.they look like muscles > of 80 years old person. ***I think that weak muscles could explain this. There are also nervous system issues that could be involved. I'm going to type in the section on " Defecation " from pp. 236-237 of Guyton's and Hall's book on Medical Physiology. Perhaps you can figure out what part of this does not seem to be working properly in your case: " Most of the time, the rectum is empty of feces. This results partly from the fact that a weak functional sphincter exists about 20 cm from the anus at the juncture between the sigmoid colon and the rectum. There is also a sharp angulation here that contributes additional resistance to filling of the rectum. When a mass movement forces feces into the rectum, the desire for defecation is normally initiated immediately, including reflex contraction of the rectum and relaxation of the anal sphincters. " Continual dribble of fecal matter through the anus is prevented by tonic contraction of (1) the internal anal sphincter, a several- centimeters-long thickening of the circular smooth muscle that lies immediately inside the anus, and (2) the external anal sphincter, composed of striated voluntary muscle that both surrounds the internal sphincter and extends distal to it [toward the anus]. The external sphincter is controlled by nerve fibers to the pudendal nerve, which is part of the somatic nervous system and therefore is under voluntary, conscious, or at least subconscious control; subconsciously it is usually kept continuously constricted unless conscious signals inhibit the constriction. " Defecation reflexes: Ordinarily, defecation is initiated by defecation reflexes. One of these reflexes is an intrinsic reflex mediated by the local enteric nervous system in the rectal wall. This can be described as follows: When feces enter the rectum, distention of the rectal wall initiates afferent signals that spread through the myenteric plexus to initiate peristaltic waves in the descending colon, sigmoid and rectum, forcing feces toward the anus. As the peristaltic wave approaches the anus, the internal anal sphincter is relaxed by inhibitory signals from the myenteric plexus; if the external anal sphincter is also consciously, voluntarily relaxed at the same time, defecation occurs. " However, the intrinsic myenteric defecation reflex functioning by itself is relatively weak. To be effective in causing defecation, it usually must be fortified by another type of defecation reflex, a parasympathetic defecation reflex, that involves the sacral segments of the spinal cord, as shown in Figure 63-6. When the nerve endings in the rectum are stimulated, signals are transmitted first into the spinal cord and then reflexly back to the descending colon, sigmoid, rectum, and anus by way of parasympathetic nerve fibers in the pelvic nerves. These parasympatheteic signals greatly intensifiy the peristaltic waves as well as relax the internal anal sphincter and thus convert the intrinsic myenteric defecation reflex from a weak effort into a powerful process of defecation that is sometimes effective in emptying the large bowel all at once all the way from the splenic flexure of the colon to the anus. " Also, the afferent defecation signals entering the spinal cord initiate other effects, such as taking a deep breath, closure of the glottis, and contraction of the abdominal wall muscles to force the fecal contents of the colon downward and at the same time cause the pelvic floor to relax downward and pull outward on the anal ring to evaginate the feces. " When it becomes convenient for the person to defecate, the defecation reflexes can sometimes be elicited by taking a deep breath to move the diaphragm downward and then contracting the abdominal muscles to increase the pressure in the abdomen, thus forcing fecal contents into the rectum to cause new reflexes. Reflexes initiated in this way are almost never as effective as those that arise naturally, for which reason people who too often inhibit their natural reflexes are likely to becocme severely constipated. " In neonates and in some people with transected spinal cords, the defecation reflexes cause automatic emptying of the lower bowel at inconvenient times during the day because of lack of conscious control exercised thorugh voluntary contraction or relaxation of the external anal sphincter. " Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Hi, Nil. > Oh.. Very surprised? > > > Omega- 6? > > yes. I am definately deficient in that.. I have not heard of that. Thanks > very much for this info. ***You're welcome. > > > Well,I do sweat. I think at normal amounts or little bit more than normal. I > have been living with strange symptoms all over for so long that I have > forgotten what normal levels are.Couple of days ago I mentioned to one of my > friends that I was changing my inner cloths in average three times a day at > hot summer days and she was surprised.So,It could be that I am sweating more > than normal. > > Thanks Rich for this valuable info. ***O.K. That may explain where the water is going. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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